Wanted to ask again. Any chance of those referral photonic officers ever being allowed to be reclaimed? I no longer play my old main and would love to get my referral photonic on my new main. Everyone I have talked with in game, says they can reclaim them. However me and my wife cannot reclaim them. So not sure what else is going on, but as of now it seems me and her are the only 2 people in game that cannot reclaim the referral photonic officer.
Guess ill stick with what support people told me last 4 times. it is not possible and anyone that says they can reclaim is lying. "Referral rewards are one time only unlocks"
For once though it would be nice to get a reply from taco or somebody.
LOL, this is the least grindy Western MMO I ever played, even World of ******** oft accused of catering to casuals on its forums, is massively more grindy than this game is. I seriously doubt that anyone who compares this game to an Eastern MMO has ever played one.
If you want all the rewards instantly, why don't you go use a hack on a single player game instead of posting here and torturing us?
If you ignore raiding and pretend it doesn't exist (and a very small percentage of WoW players routinely touch that element of gameplay), WoW is considerably less grindy than STO.
But they can make STO however much or how little grindy they like.
Ignore "achiever" gameplay (which is completely irrelevant to the goals and playstyle of most MMO players) and focus on "median player" gameplay. On the "achiever" end, STO's powers are broken and overpowered and WoW's gameplay is all conducted over coordinated chat servers in organized raids.
The top 5% is irrelevant. The top 25% is irrelevant. Focus on the middle 50%. You can't say that STO is honestly less grindy at that level when compared to the middle 50% of WoW.
Now, business models are different. Games are different. I'm not saying that STO should or should not be grindy. I'm just saying that a truly balanced assessment would look at the median quartiles of players. And if you're doing comparisons like that, raiding as an activity or goal doesn't exist in WoW. The fact that raiding is more integral to STO endgame, makes STO grindier.
Wanted to ask again. Any chance of those referral photonic officers ever being allowed to be reclaimed? I no longer play my old main and would love to get my referral photonic on my new main. Everyone I have talked with in game, says they can reclaim them. However me and my wife cannot reclaim them. So not sure what else is going on, but as of now it seems me and her are the only 2 people in game that cannot reclaim the referral photonic officer.
Guess ill stick with what support people told me last 4 times. it is not possible and anyone that says they can reclaim is lying. "Referral rewards are one time only unlocks"
For once though it would be nice to get a reply from taco or somebody.
Did you get them from the exchange or an anniversary event rather than actual referrals? That would be why.
This fix was not made with the conscious intention of decreasing anyone's enjoyment of the game, or ability to earn XP/CXP, or anything else we're currently being accused of. The fix was made because it is a fix -- a problem existed, and had to be corrected.
With all dude respect, this game has more than a handful of existing problems. But there seems to be a pattern of behavior when it comes to determining the priority of which problems get fixed. The problems that benefit players seems to get the most and immediate attention, with the server even being brought down early to address those problems. However problems that effect players negativity or are reported by players seem to languish around for extended amount of time before they are acknowledged and fixed, if they get fixed at all.
Perhaps a healthy compromise could be to dedicate one week out of the month to address those problems that the players, your customers, have concerns with. I'm sure there are enough problems that both devs and players have consensus on. You can start with those to enhance player engagement and retention.
The fix was made because it is a fix -- a problem existed, and had to be corrected.
I like this philosophy. So what your saying bort is; A Problem exists, Therefore it must be fixed.
Of course this is not true. There is no necessary or causal relationship there. Many problems exist and do not get fixed. I could give you many examples. But that's unnecessary because I like the spirit of your factually incorrect statement.
Hear is a suggestion though. Another problem is player discontent with their rate of XP acquisition. And as the problem exists, it must be fixed.
I know you have limited resources, but have you considered applying them to those problems which remedy the above mentioned problem of player dissatisfaction, before you apply them to those problems which exacerbate it?
Sorry to be a donkeys jackside about this Bort. I don't actually care that much about this. But this isn't the first time you have rewritten history. This wasn't a bug. It was working as intended as those of us who have been around a while know. Please subdue your tendency to spin things and present changes honestly in future.
Because systems cannot be maintained, improved, or expanded safely if they are built on inaccurate data.
I think people are still smarting over the Doffing Nerf from months ago. You remember, the one where pwegroverclvland told uswe were told that we were going to get a comensurate buff to compensate for the increased points needed to level? The one that was swept under the rug?
People are still irritated over that so the trust needs to be re-earned. BTW - what IS the status of that? We effectivly got a Doffing XP nerf from that. THIS is where a lot of the ire comes from.
Let me also add...you DO know that the 12 hour missions paying out like that was intentional, right? It was the epitome of Game Theory that Heretic was trying to employ based on people real-life schedules. this is about the experience.
Your character gives an order. That's it. He doesn't learn to give orders better.
Guess what: 99+% of a general/admiral's duty (or a captain, for that matter) is paperwork and/or meetings. Guess what doffing is: paperwork and meetings.
That's right! We all wanted to be admirals, and we get to be with the duty officer system!
Let me also add...you DO know that the 12 hour missions paying out like that was intentional, right? It was the epitome of Game Theory that Heretic was trying to employ based on people real-life schedules. this is about the experience.
Just a sidebar as I'm on your side on this part:
I see folks saying "Game Theory". You're going to get schooled by devs on this point. Game Theory refers to a subset of math, social science, and business strategy. This refers to von Neumann's work which people popularly connect with the work of John Nash. Making thing more complicated is that Game Theory has a place in the design of STO, although I'd wager largely on the business side where economic actors are easier to model; I'd be impressed as heck if Game Theory was used in designing game mechanics but I think it's doubtful there.
Not everything related to game design or theories about game design is Game Theory.
And if intent has changed, fine, intent has changed. There will be consequences of the shift in intent. There always are. As I've said, while I'm a fan of Heretic, I have been a skeptic of the DOff system since its inception. I agree 100% with the criticisms I've seen Geko level at it. My own pass at a DOff system would be dramatically different. Give me two hours and a white board and I'd have a different system lined up and then we'd look at implementing it phases and developing specifics.
But you are 100% right when you say that the design intent was for a bump on a specific kind of play. And that, basically, more frequent or less frequent play was penalized and that this change imposes what were supposed to be penalties for excessive or inattentive play into penalties for all play.
Calling it a rough spot that needs to be hammered out is like noting that weapon damage spikes when it isn't on cooldown. Meanwhile weapons aren't dealing damage while on cooldowns. Therefore, weapons dealing damage when the "fire" key is pressed and when off-cooldown is a bump that needs to be leveled. But, don't worry, we'll increase damage up from zero and make it even, rendering actually firing your weapons irrelevant.
I am not worried about the design changing here. I am worried if developers are running around with inadequate documentation from former employees and an inadequate grasp of what their systems were designed to do. Change or change not but know a bug vs. an intended feature when you see it.
Guess what: 99+% of a general/admiral's duty (or a captain, for that matter) is paperwork and/or meetings. Guess what doffing is: paperwork and meetings.
That's right! We all wanted to be admirals, and we get to be with the duty officer system!
I have long thought that the game should be Captain 30-50 (or 60 now) and that DOff commendation advancement should unlock admiral title and cosmetics as a sideways progression. Meanwhile, gear would simply state level requirements.
Want to be an admiral? Congratulations. It's just being a captain who does more paperwork than other captains.
Why not wait to wreck the 12 hour missions until you've got a comprehensive, competent, professional package of changes to implement that don't make the game worse for us?
Because it's not in the manual ?
... seriously tho, I don't think it's in the manual ...
Mine is not. Neither is my photonic tribble. I also cant reclaim my escort i bought long time ago that came with cloaking device. Tried going through support 4 times already. Finally just gave up. Would be nice if somebody at cryptic would reply here and at least tell me to stop wasting my breath. Support already told me that.
These are not account wide items and you only got them once .
If you truly want another , start saving and hit up the exchange .
... I sold a photonic tribble there for about 11Mil a few weeks ago , it helped me get the photonic tactical officer I actually wanted ...
Lol, I'm not sure how anybody could complain with a straight face. I flew all over the place looking for 12-15.9 hour assignments, taking note of the rewards of countless other assignments in the process. When I hopped over to the Delta Quadrant and saw them, mixed in there with the other assignments...they stood out like a sore thumb as broken - obviously rewarding about ten times as much as one would expect based on all the other countless assignments with their rewards. /facepalm
edit: Reminds me of the TS3 E-Bio firing off 7 torps per target rather than 4...and the folks that defended that. Reminds me of the TS3 Neut and it doing what was it, providing almost 130% more of a buff than others before even taking into account the rest it did? Reminds me of EAP providing -50% instead of -5%. Reminds me of the folks that were hitting up various Tau Dewa Patrols, working the leveling thing by grouping, and earning massive XP compared to anything else in the game. Reminds me of a bunch of things in this game where Cryptic has eventually gotten around to fixing something that stood out like a sore thumb compared to everything else...and...people complained.
Would be like one ATM in the mall giving everybody $100 when they checked their balance when none of the other ATMs did...and if the company fixed the ATM, people would complain about it. Some would even suggest that the other ATMs should have simply given everybody the $100 too.
It's just epic /facepalm.
edit2: That being said...yeah, they need to do something about the XP gain from 50 to 60. Cause, although imho it was too fast at the launch of DR, what they've done in the interim is just ludicrous. They could have done X, Y, or Z to tweak it - but in typical Cryptic heavy handed mucking about - they just brutalized XP gain in gauntleted /facepalm fashion.
edit3: Meh, and to be honest - lol, I'm kind of disappointed that I've missed out on this however long it's been going on like that...heh. But why I DOFF and how I DOFF, I don't even look at anything over 8 hours...bah.
Lol, I'm not sure how anybody could complain with a straight face. I flew all over the place looking for 12-15.9 hour assignments, taking note of the rewards of countless other assignments in the process.
For me its not about the 12-16s. For me its about ALL THE OTHER doff assignments that has been cut by about half.
Let me try and clear up a few misconceptions and possibly even cool some heads around here, regarding the Doffing XP adjustment. Fix. Let's call it what it is: we fixed an error in the code.
Please explain why CXP for assignments SHORTER than 12h and LONGER than 16h has been cut.
For me its not about the 12-16s. For me its about ALL THE OTHER doff assignments that has been cut by about half.
I didn't see any difference to others. Something doing 56 on Holo, it's 56 on Tribble...180...180 on both...330 on one, 330 on the other...600whatever it was, was still 600whatever it is.
It was just those 1200+ assignments.
What assignments have you seen cut in half over on Tribble?
I checked Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Very Rare...15 minutes through 8 hours and 20 hours through 72 hours. But I'm not familiar with XP DOFFing in the least...that's not what I DOFF for...and if they screwed something up, it'd be good for them not to TRIBBLE it up before it goes to Holodeck.
edit: So looking in the other thread, somebody linked an image showing other things...things that were even more broken than the 12 hour things. Those? The 2k+ and 5k+ normal Success rewards?
Glad to hear we can finally benefit from the CrtH and CrtD bonuses from the KHG / AMACO ground set. This should increase general DPS a bit.
PS: About the 12 hour duff assignments ... they should not be nerfed, the longer ones should be increased! I see a 60 (!) hour assignment with 181 (!) CXP as reward ... that's just ridiculous. *lol*
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Lol, I'm not sure how anybody could complain with a straight face. I flew all over the place looking for 12-15.9 hour assignments, taking note of the rewards of countless other assignments in the process. When I hopped over to the Delta Quadrant and saw them, mixed in there with the other assignments...they stood out like a sore thumb as broken - obviously rewarding about ten times as much as one would expect based on all the other countless assignments with their rewards. /facepalm
There are quotes in this thread from the creator of the DOff system basically explaining that 12-15 hour assignments are the primary form of "intended play" and that longer and shorter assignments are deliberately penalized to avoid "autopiloting" with three day assignments (in short, you take a cut for doing those) or playing very short assignments more (which was an overly hardcore strategy). Along with the goal being that people would seek out 12-15 hour assignments and only "settle for" shorter assignments and longer assignments.
You're "not sure how anyone could complain" when people have given you the reason, supplied quotes from a former developer who was the chief architect of this system.
Now, I have said, I think changing the system in a number of ways is a fine idea. But calling the original design something that was "obviously" broken when there are quotes from its architect explaining why it worked that way is disingenuous.
Borticus likely didn't have those quotes and may not have known they were stated reasons. But you are posting much deeper into a thread where those reasons have been stated. If you have not read those posts? Fine. But then don't get angry about complaints unless you are prepared to read all of them. Otherwise, you don't know what you're calling people out for.
edit: So looking in the other thread, somebody linked an image showing other things...things that were even more broken than the 12 hour things. Those? The 2k+ and 5k+ normal Success rewards?
Cryptic: "We just modified 12-16 hour assignments"
Me: "But what about <these>?"
You: "Well those needed nerfing!"
Your reply does not address the point of my question, that Cryptic either don't know that their tinkering with the DOFF system is changing things they don't intend to change. Or that Cryptic intend to change more than 12-16h but for some reason don't want to say so.
edit: Reminds me of the TS3 E-Bio firing off 7 torps per target rather than 4...and the folks that defended that. Reminds me of the TS3 Neut and it doing what was it, providing almost 130% more of a buff than others before even taking into account the rest it did? Reminds me of EAP providing -50% instead of -5%. Reminds me of the folks that were hitting up various Tau Dewa Patrols, working the leveling thing by grouping, and earning massive XP compared to anything else in the game. Reminds me of a bunch of things in this game where Cryptic has eventually gotten around to fixing something that stood out like a sore thumb compared to everything else...and...people complained.
I am NOT arguing against the things that needed to be fixed, as they were obviously needed to be fixed. I AM arguing that they've done it half-TRIBBLE$ed in some cases.
Reminds me of the change in mob shield & hull hp, but some weapons not matching the scale adjustments. Reminds me of not fixing Neutronic HY damage for both kinetic and radiation (a glaring one I might add), reminds me of Kemicite Tactical BOff ability that's not affect by Tactical Initiative, reminds me of the Iconian T4 Rep trait, reminds me of the Experimental Proton Weapon not working properly with some DOffs, reminds me of some tactical consoles not boosting the damage for the appropriate weapon, reminds me of a whole host of other things that have literally been reported for years that have not been addressed, and which can be fixed by spending 0.5hrs worth of work on them each. How do I know this? Because they've done it elsewhere when they wanted to focus on something (including their pet projects), and very recently for arbitrary reasons. Literally, arbitrary reasons.
This is why I am complaining.
I now regret investing time and money into this game.
I am NOT arguing against the things that needed to be fixed, as they were obviously needed to be fixed. I AM arguing that they've done it half-TRIBBLE$ed in some cases.
Reminds me of the change in mob shield & hull hp, but some weapons not matching the scale adjustments. Reminds me of not fixing Neutronic HY damage for both kinetic and radiation (a glaring one I might add), reminds me of Kemicite Tactical BOff ability that's not affect by Tactical Initiative, reminds me of the Iconian T4 Rep trait, reminds me of the Experimental Proton Weapon not working properly with some DOffs, reminds me of some tactical consoles not boosting the damage for the appropriate weapon, reminds me of a whole host of other things that have literally been reported for years that have not been addressed, and which can be fixed by spending 0.5hrs worth of work on them each. How do I know this? Because they've done it elsewhere when they wanted to focus on something (including their pet projects), and very recently for arbitrary reasons. Literally, arbitrary reasons.
This is why I am complaining.
I now regret investing time and money into this game.
They finally acknowledged that they have a fix without ETA for the 3pc Contractual Agreement bug that presented itself last October when DR launched...
I've grumbled a few times that one couldn't take two steps without tripping over a bug. Like the CF stuff, that discussion where it came up that PDoTs were triggering CF as well - also saw that Neut Rad was triggering it - don't recall it being bug reported, but Bort said they already had a fix for the PDoTs triggering it...does that include the Neut Rad?
There are all sorts of things.
This DOFFing thing? In PO219 Geko talked about his plans for changing DOFFing...tada...Geko was probably looking at it more closely...tada...he saw an issue...tada...he told them to fix it.
It's definitely that mix of what they're looking at...that they look at it. Players might be looking at countless things (can't take two steps, etc)...
I think they're understaffed. Cause when they do look at something, they take care of it - they just don't have the folks to look at everything. Which also means they don't have the folks to look at everything before it happens as well...as they rush through with the production schedule they have. So issues keep happening (can't take two steps, etc) and issues only get resolved if somebody looks at it.
As other's have said the problem isn't the rewards cut to the doff's missions directly as the named category does fill a little overly generous, but the whole XP curve post 50 and especially post 60 for spec points being far too high for the available rewards everywhere else in the game against the time taken.
I think it's fair to say that's the reason why this "fix" to the doff missions is getting such a negative and hostile reaction because players believe that the XP curve post level 50 is far too high. More than this as well, the current XP curve is so high that it makes keeping alt's going unattractive as the only way to make meaningful progress with them was to run these doff missions that had such good rewards.
The other two thing's I haven't seen but would have to wonder about relating to this is:
1) How much of any effect has the introduction of Ultra Rare Doff's had on this since we all know doff quality acts as a multiplier on the rewards (so using a set of 5 doff's on something like the Rare Gorn Uprising mission might spit out 30/40k+ in XP on Crit (I'm guessing there base on what a Crit with Very Rare's look like)?
2) Has anyone thought how much this is going to hit smaller fleets that are still grinding fleet marks for projects? I certainly know a lot of my fleet marks come from converting CXP to fleet marks and that keeps our KDF fleet moving to a degree (especially with the lack of KDF fleet missions that actually pop from pug queues these days during the hours I'm on).
Those are some epic patch notes, looking forward for more of them. Mind taking a look at Presidio's glowing FX on its nacelles? EPTE, warp out and transwarp animations are waaaay offset.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
With all dude respect, this game has more than a handful of existing problems. But there seems to be a pattern of behavior when it comes to determining the priority of which problems get fixed. The problems that benefit players seems to get the most and immediate attention, with the server even being brought down early to address those problems. However problems that effect players negativity or are reported by players seem to languish around for extended amount of time before they are acknowledged and fixed, if they get fixed at all.
Perhaps a healthy compromise could be to dedicate one week out of the month to address those problems that the players, your customers, have concerns with. I'm sure there are enough problems that both devs and players have consensus on. You can start with those to enhance player engagement and retention.
This is the whole problem with the game philosophy with the devs now - their eagerness to impede and push against the sense of enjoyment and progression for the player, versus their total reluctance to do anything that is constantly complained about by said players.
The players have no trust or respect for the devs because none is given back. Its endless nerfs delivered in double speak, PR fluff and flat out lies.
I'm sure this could all have been dealt with a million times better in the form of a fair and balanced DOFF exp overhaul. But instead, its the usual Cryptic approach - just nerf and ignore anything practical feedback or player feelings.
This is the whole problem with the game philosophy with the devs now - their eagerness to impede and push against the sense of enjoyment and progression for the player, versus their total reluctance to do anything that is constantly complained about by said players.
The players have no trust or respect for the devs because none is given back. Its endless nerfs delivered in double speak, PR fluff and flat out lies.
I'm sure this could all have been dealt with a million times better in the form of a fair and balanced DOFF exp overhaul. But instead, its the usual Cryptic approach - just nerf and ignore anything practical feedback or player feelings.
Were all DOFF assignments rewarding at such a level? No? Hrmmm...so it wasn't a nerf, eh?
There were certain assignments that were rewarding far better than intended and much better than the majority of the assignments? Yes? Hrmmm...so it was a bug fix, eh?
Are those that were exploiting those bugged assignments...crying? Yes? Hrmmm...so it's standard for the forums, eh?
Were all DOFF assignments rewarding at such a level? No? Hrmmm...so it wasn't a nerf, eh?
There were certain assignments that were rewarding far better than intended and much better than the majority of the assignments? Yes? Hrmmm...so it was a bug fix, eh?
Are those that were exploiting those bugged assignments...crying? Yes? Hrmmm...so it's standard for the forums, eh?
Please see my post just now in the general forum. The new numbers are way out of line and rewarding far less than much shorter assignments. This must be a bug unless the floor remains very lumpy, right?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Please see my post just now in the general forum. The new numbers are way out of line and rewarding far less than much shorter assignments. This must be a bug unless the floor remains very lumpy, right?
I couldn't even begin to guess at what the formula for determining the rewards would be. Heretic gave a partial narrative on things that affect them:
An assignment's degree of reward is based on several factors:
Rarer assignments have better rewards
Longer assignments have higher absolute rewards, but lower per capita/per second rewards (i.e., they are less efficient)
Assignments that have a higher chance of injury or death will have higher rewards
Assignments that have higher inputs (commodities, anomalies, energy units, etc.) will have higher rewards
Assignments that have no chance of disaster or failure will have lower rewards
Assignments that have a lower chance of success will have higher rewards; most assignments start at around 75% chance of success, but some are closer to 50%, meaning you need to put better duty officers into them for a more reliable chance of success
Assignments with more specific requirements will have higher rewards; for example, a requirement of "Projectile Weapons Specialist" will generally reward more than one that will take any Tactical officer
Assignments with tougher trait modifiers will tend to have higher rewards
If one looks through the 15 minute to 8 hour and the 20 hour to 72 hour assignments, there are all sorts of things that look off...I was scratching my head looking at some of the things going on there.
Create Map of Longitudinal Social Trends in the Klingon Empire
411 XP, 52 EXP, 223 Exploration 5 Dil, 20 EC
Describe Map of Perennial Social Trends in the Federation
294 XP, 35 EXP, 157 Exploration, 5 Dil, 20 EC
Both have the same duration.
Both require four DOFFs with the same listed traits.
The base chances are different...and meh, my internet kicked out and don't feel like logging back in to check the other differences.
...there are going to be those various factors that come into play with it. What's the difference in the base chances, difference in casualty risk, one's requiring three DOFFs, what traits are involved, etc, etc, etc.
There are 2 hour Uncommon that reward better than 4 hour Rare, because of that's involved in the actual assignment.
It's a trip to look at how many different rewards there can be for some of the assignments with the same Time/Qualtiy, but because of all the other factors...the rewards are different. It's not just how long they take...
Comments
Wanted to ask again. Any chance of those referral photonic officers ever being allowed to be reclaimed? I no longer play my old main and would love to get my referral photonic on my new main. Everyone I have talked with in game, says they can reclaim them. However me and my wife cannot reclaim them. So not sure what else is going on, but as of now it seems me and her are the only 2 people in game that cannot reclaim the referral photonic officer.
Guess ill stick with what support people told me last 4 times. it is not possible and anyone that says they can reclaim is lying. "Referral rewards are one time only unlocks"
For once though it would be nice to get a reply from taco or somebody.
If you ignore raiding and pretend it doesn't exist (and a very small percentage of WoW players routinely touch that element of gameplay), WoW is considerably less grindy than STO.
But they can make STO however much or how little grindy they like.
Ignore "achiever" gameplay (which is completely irrelevant to the goals and playstyle of most MMO players) and focus on "median player" gameplay. On the "achiever" end, STO's powers are broken and overpowered and WoW's gameplay is all conducted over coordinated chat servers in organized raids.
The top 5% is irrelevant. The top 25% is irrelevant. Focus on the middle 50%. You can't say that STO is honestly less grindy at that level when compared to the middle 50% of WoW.
Now, business models are different. Games are different. I'm not saying that STO should or should not be grindy. I'm just saying that a truly balanced assessment would look at the median quartiles of players. And if you're doing comparisons like that, raiding as an activity or goal doesn't exist in WoW. The fact that raiding is more integral to STO endgame, makes STO grindier.
Did you get them from the exchange or an anniversary event rather than actual referrals? That would be why.
Perhaps a healthy compromise could be to dedicate one week out of the month to address those problems that the players, your customers, have concerns with. I'm sure there are enough problems that both devs and players have consensus on. You can start with those to enhance player engagement and retention.
I like this philosophy. So what your saying bort is; A Problem exists, Therefore it must be fixed.
Of course this is not true. There is no necessary or causal relationship there. Many problems exist and do not get fixed. I could give you many examples. But that's unnecessary because I like the spirit of your factually incorrect statement.
Hear is a suggestion though. Another problem is player discontent with their rate of XP acquisition. And as the problem exists, it must be fixed.
I know you have limited resources, but have you considered applying them to those problems which remedy the above mentioned problem of player dissatisfaction, before you apply them to those problems which exacerbate it?
Sorry to be a donkeys jackside about this Bort. I don't actually care that much about this. But this isn't the first time you have rewritten history. This wasn't a bug. It was working as intended as those of us who have been around a while know. Please subdue your tendency to spin things and present changes honestly in future.
Yes, first one gave me the tribble, second or third refferal gave me the officer.
I think people are still smarting over the Doffing Nerf from months ago. You remember, the one where pwegroverclvland told uswe were told that we were going to get a comensurate buff to compensate for the increased points needed to level? The one that was swept under the rug?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1302021
People are still irritated over that so the trust needs to be re-earned. BTW - what IS the status of that? We effectivly got a Doffing XP nerf from that. THIS is where a lot of the ire comes from.
Let me also add...you DO know that the 12 hour missions paying out like that was intentional, right? It was the epitome of Game Theory that Heretic was trying to employ based on people real-life schedules. this is about the experience.
You guys need to think about this stuff more.
Guess what: 99+% of a general/admiral's duty (or a captain, for that matter) is paperwork and/or meetings. Guess what doffing is: paperwork and meetings.
That's right! We all wanted to be admirals, and we get to be with the duty officer system!
Just a sidebar as I'm on your side on this part:
I see folks saying "Game Theory". You're going to get schooled by devs on this point. Game Theory refers to a subset of math, social science, and business strategy. This refers to von Neumann's work which people popularly connect with the work of John Nash. Making thing more complicated is that Game Theory has a place in the design of STO, although I'd wager largely on the business side where economic actors are easier to model; I'd be impressed as heck if Game Theory was used in designing game mechanics but I think it's doubtful there.
Not everything related to game design or theories about game design is Game Theory.
And if intent has changed, fine, intent has changed. There will be consequences of the shift in intent. There always are. As I've said, while I'm a fan of Heretic, I have been a skeptic of the DOff system since its inception. I agree 100% with the criticisms I've seen Geko level at it. My own pass at a DOff system would be dramatically different. Give me two hours and a white board and I'd have a different system lined up and then we'd look at implementing it phases and developing specifics.
But you are 100% right when you say that the design intent was for a bump on a specific kind of play. And that, basically, more frequent or less frequent play was penalized and that this change imposes what were supposed to be penalties for excessive or inattentive play into penalties for all play.
Calling it a rough spot that needs to be hammered out is like noting that weapon damage spikes when it isn't on cooldown. Meanwhile weapons aren't dealing damage while on cooldowns. Therefore, weapons dealing damage when the "fire" key is pressed and when off-cooldown is a bump that needs to be leveled. But, don't worry, we'll increase damage up from zero and make it even, rendering actually firing your weapons irrelevant.
I am not worried about the design changing here. I am worried if developers are running around with inadequate documentation from former employees and an inadequate grasp of what their systems were designed to do. Change or change not but know a bug vs. an intended feature when you see it.
I have long thought that the game should be Captain 30-50 (or 60 now) and that DOff commendation advancement should unlock admiral title and cosmetics as a sideways progression. Meanwhile, gear would simply state level requirements.
Want to be an admiral? Congratulations. It's just being a captain who does more paperwork than other captains.
Because it's not in the manual ?
... seriously tho, I don't think it's in the manual ...
These are not account wide items and you only got them once .
If you truly want another , start saving and hit up the exchange .
... I sold a photonic tribble there for about 11Mil a few weeks ago , it helped me get the photonic tactical officer I actually wanted ...
edit: Reminds me of the TS3 E-Bio firing off 7 torps per target rather than 4...and the folks that defended that. Reminds me of the TS3 Neut and it doing what was it, providing almost 130% more of a buff than others before even taking into account the rest it did? Reminds me of EAP providing -50% instead of -5%. Reminds me of the folks that were hitting up various Tau Dewa Patrols, working the leveling thing by grouping, and earning massive XP compared to anything else in the game. Reminds me of a bunch of things in this game where Cryptic has eventually gotten around to fixing something that stood out like a sore thumb compared to everything else...and...people complained.
Would be like one ATM in the mall giving everybody $100 when they checked their balance when none of the other ATMs did...and if the company fixed the ATM, people would complain about it. Some would even suggest that the other ATMs should have simply given everybody the $100 too.
It's just epic /facepalm.
edit2: That being said...yeah, they need to do something about the XP gain from 50 to 60. Cause, although imho it was too fast at the launch of DR, what they've done in the interim is just ludicrous. They could have done X, Y, or Z to tweak it - but in typical Cryptic heavy handed mucking about - they just brutalized XP gain in gauntleted /facepalm fashion.
edit3: Meh, and to be honest - lol, I'm kind of disappointed that I've missed out on this however long it's been going on like that...heh. But why I DOFF and how I DOFF, I don't even look at anything over 8 hours...bah.
For me its not about the 12-16s. For me its about ALL THE OTHER doff assignments that has been cut by about half.
Please explain why CXP for assignments SHORTER than 12h and LONGER than 16h has been cut.
I didn't see any difference to others. Something doing 56 on Holo, it's 56 on Tribble...180...180 on both...330 on one, 330 on the other...600whatever it was, was still 600whatever it is.
It was just those 1200+ assignments.
What assignments have you seen cut in half over on Tribble?
I checked Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Very Rare...15 minutes through 8 hours and 20 hours through 72 hours. But I'm not familiar with XP DOFFing in the least...that's not what I DOFF for...and if they screwed something up, it'd be good for them not to TRIBBLE it up before it goes to Holodeck.
edit: So looking in the other thread, somebody linked an image showing other things...things that were even more broken than the 12 hour things. Those? The 2k+ and 5k+ normal Success rewards?
If you received them from any promo other than referral, they were not account-wide items and were boxed.
If you received them from the referral promo, claiming them from the C-Store places them BOUND in your inventory.
Source: I just tested this, since I had the original referral promo.
If you had a boxed version, it is not the referral version. The referral version is claimed from the legacy unlock tab of the C-Store.
PS: About the 12 hour duff assignments ... they should not be nerfed, the longer ones should be increased! I see a 60 (!) hour assignment with 181 (!) CXP as reward ... that's just ridiculous. *lol*
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
There are quotes in this thread from the creator of the DOff system basically explaining that 12-15 hour assignments are the primary form of "intended play" and that longer and shorter assignments are deliberately penalized to avoid "autopiloting" with three day assignments (in short, you take a cut for doing those) or playing very short assignments more (which was an overly hardcore strategy). Along with the goal being that people would seek out 12-15 hour assignments and only "settle for" shorter assignments and longer assignments.
You're "not sure how anyone could complain" when people have given you the reason, supplied quotes from a former developer who was the chief architect of this system.
Now, I have said, I think changing the system in a number of ways is a fine idea. But calling the original design something that was "obviously" broken when there are quotes from its architect explaining why it worked that way is disingenuous.
Borticus likely didn't have those quotes and may not have known they were stated reasons. But you are posting much deeper into a thread where those reasons have been stated. If you have not read those posts? Fine. But then don't get angry about complaints unless you are prepared to read all of them. Otherwise, you don't know what you're calling people out for.
Cryptic: "We just modified 12-16 hour assignments"
Me: "But what about <these>?"
You: "Well those needed nerfing!"
Your reply does not address the point of my question, that Cryptic either don't know that their tinkering with the DOFF system is changing things they don't intend to change. Or that Cryptic intend to change more than 12-16h but for some reason don't want to say so.
I am NOT arguing against the things that needed to be fixed, as they were obviously needed to be fixed. I AM arguing that they've done it half-TRIBBLE$ed in some cases.
Reminds me of the change in mob shield & hull hp, but some weapons not matching the scale adjustments. Reminds me of not fixing Neutronic HY damage for both kinetic and radiation (a glaring one I might add), reminds me of Kemicite Tactical BOff ability that's not affect by Tactical Initiative, reminds me of the Iconian T4 Rep trait, reminds me of the Experimental Proton Weapon not working properly with some DOffs, reminds me of some tactical consoles not boosting the damage for the appropriate weapon, reminds me of a whole host of other things that have literally been reported for years that have not been addressed, and which can be fixed by spending 0.5hrs worth of work on them each. How do I know this? Because they've done it elsewhere when they wanted to focus on something (including their pet projects), and very recently for arbitrary reasons. Literally, arbitrary reasons.
This is why I am complaining.
I now regret investing time and money into this game.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
You eliminate outliers, not change the base.
They finally acknowledged that they have a fix without ETA for the 3pc Contractual Agreement bug that presented itself last October when DR launched...
I've grumbled a few times that one couldn't take two steps without tripping over a bug. Like the CF stuff, that discussion where it came up that PDoTs were triggering CF as well - also saw that Neut Rad was triggering it - don't recall it being bug reported, but Bort said they already had a fix for the PDoTs triggering it...does that include the Neut Rad?
There are all sorts of things.
This DOFFing thing? In PO219 Geko talked about his plans for changing DOFFing...tada...Geko was probably looking at it more closely...tada...he saw an issue...tada...he told them to fix it.
It's definitely that mix of what they're looking at...that they look at it. Players might be looking at countless things (can't take two steps, etc)...
I think they're understaffed. Cause when they do look at something, they take care of it - they just don't have the folks to look at everything. Which also means they don't have the folks to look at everything before it happens as well...as they rush through with the production schedule they have. So issues keep happening (can't take two steps, etc) and issues only get resolved if somebody looks at it.
/shrug
edit: BTW, er, my KLW3 is affected by Tac Init.
I think it's fair to say that's the reason why this "fix" to the doff missions is getting such a negative and hostile reaction because players believe that the XP curve post level 50 is far too high. More than this as well, the current XP curve is so high that it makes keeping alt's going unattractive as the only way to make meaningful progress with them was to run these doff missions that had such good rewards.
The other two thing's I haven't seen but would have to wonder about relating to this is:
1) How much of any effect has the introduction of Ultra Rare Doff's had on this since we all know doff quality acts as a multiplier on the rewards (so using a set of 5 doff's on something like the Rare Gorn Uprising mission might spit out 30/40k+ in XP on Crit (I'm guessing there base on what a Crit with Very Rare's look like)?
2) Has anyone thought how much this is going to hit smaller fleets that are still grinding fleet marks for projects? I certainly know a lot of my fleet marks come from converting CXP to fleet marks and that keeps our KDF fleet moving to a degree (especially with the lack of KDF fleet missions that actually pop from pug queues these days during the hours I'm on).
This is the whole problem with the game philosophy with the devs now - their eagerness to impede and push against the sense of enjoyment and progression for the player, versus their total reluctance to do anything that is constantly complained about by said players.
The players have no trust or respect for the devs because none is given back. Its endless nerfs delivered in double speak, PR fluff and flat out lies.
I'm sure this could all have been dealt with a million times better in the form of a fair and balanced DOFF exp overhaul. But instead, its the usual Cryptic approach - just nerf and ignore anything practical feedback or player feelings.
Were all DOFF assignments rewarding at such a level? No? Hrmmm...so it wasn't a nerf, eh?
There were certain assignments that were rewarding far better than intended and much better than the majority of the assignments? Yes? Hrmmm...so it was a bug fix, eh?
Are those that were exploiting those bugged assignments...crying? Yes? Hrmmm...so it's standard for the forums, eh?
Please see my post just now in the general forum. The new numbers are way out of line and rewarding far less than much shorter assignments. This must be a bug unless the floor remains very lumpy, right?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I couldn't even begin to guess at what the formula for determining the rewards would be. Heretic gave a partial narrative on things that affect them:
If one looks through the 15 minute to 8 hour and the 20 hour to 72 hour assignments, there are all sorts of things that look off...I was scratching my head looking at some of the things going on there.
Create Map of Longitudinal Social Trends in the Klingon Empire
411 XP, 52 EXP, 223 Exploration 5 Dil, 20 EC
Describe Map of Perennial Social Trends in the Federation
294 XP, 35 EXP, 157 Exploration, 5 Dil, 20 EC
Both have the same duration.
Both require four DOFFs with the same listed traits.
The base chances are different...and meh, my internet kicked out and don't feel like logging back in to check the other differences.
With that image that was posted...
...there are going to be those various factors that come into play with it. What's the difference in the base chances, difference in casualty risk, one's requiring three DOFFs, what traits are involved, etc, etc, etc.
There are 2 hour Uncommon that reward better than 4 hour Rare, because of that's involved in the actual assignment.
It's a trip to look at how many different rewards there can be for some of the assignments with the same Time/Qualtiy, but because of all the other factors...the rewards are different. It's not just how long they take...
Unless it's a deliberate bump.