That shows you how long it has been since I dared go in any space queue on Advanced right there!! I've been doing almost exclusively Undine BZ for space fun since DR.
So that leaves the mats. If there are Advanced R&D mats, then I don't think we can call the queues entirely the same.
We'll probably have the best indication of the most typical difference between rewards when ISA or VCA is addressed.
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The problem is that, with how rep gear works, advanced is basically mandatory for people who want to advance their gear. So the fix was to either make it so that the items come from normal (which would definitely kill advanced) or make advanced less punishing in failure but better rewarding for better performance.
It's about damn time they started reversing this HORRIBLE change from DR.
Apparently, they're going to try it with Azure first to see if it's well received. I hope everyone will join me in playing this que over and over and completely ignoring every other que to drive home the message that we want this change across ALL ques.
Once it goes live, Azure is the only que I will play. I'm tired of wasting my time on endeavors that are doomed to fail. I don't even need the marks, I would just rather spending my time earning a reward I don't necessarily need then I would trying to earn something more useful that will probably fail.
But...who will I get outrageously angry at if not the TRIBBLE-hats who decide to try to rescue a Scimitar by frontal assault rather than the little T'varos? I'm being robbed of something here. :P
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I for one appreciate this. I PUG as a matter of course and rarely seek out any team. The learning curve for the DR Advanced queues was brutal to the point of shutting down PUGs.
This seems to be closer to a happy medium.
And I applaud the devs for individually tuning each queue as each one should be so different that they require different passes.
I have little doubt that there will be people raging about people failing optionals and rage quitting because they're not getting the absolute max rewards...but people will be playing again.
I have one concern though. I don't see any mention of adjustments to HP of the enemies. And I would like it to be logical. There's no reason for a Tholian cruiser to have over half a million HP, nor is there any reason for a Recluse to have three quarters of a million HP. It's absurd. I understand it's about making up for enemy ships not having resists and all that, but their shields and HP are just about wasting time and enforcing an increase in DPS as the rule rather than the option.
Just remember that the changes have not spread to other queues yet. We have to get an ANRA pugging campaign together to prove to Cryptic this is the best balance pass ever and the players really DO love it.
In a thread recently I talked about one of my most exciting runs in some time had been an ISA that was past the 16 minute mark and we're there at the end with the clock counting down...we missed the 15 minute Optional timer by like 3 seconds. But it was epic.
16 minutes in and still on the first Transformer...
...not epic.
I have to say my most exciting time in an STF was WAAAYYYY past the timer being gone. This was in old Infected Elite when I was still a straight rookie. A straight PUG, after the optional failed two of the guys bailed leaving us with three. I was running Aegis and MkXI Purple and blue gear back then in a basic Assault Cruiser. The other two were in escorts. So we manage to take down the gateway leaving us to deal with the Tactical Cube. But there was a period where we were popping like popcorn, invisible plasma one shots left and right. We didn't quit at that point because it had become a matter of F-ing PRIDE. Then I get into this period where the other guys had popped so quickly that the respawn timer had to have been at 90 seconds, so I'm alone, but I can't leave the damn thing alone because it will heal up. So I'm firing and whittling it down, and the thing can't kill me, I'm cycling powers and popping heals. Very first time that I was directly and intentionally tanking something. I kept the thing from regenerating, the other guys respawned came back at full power and we finished the TRIBBLE off. It was a horrible performance, took 45 minutes for an old ISE run...but the victory and those BNPs were soooooosweet.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
The problem is that, with how rep gear works, advanced is basically mandatory for people who want to advance their gear. So the fix was to either make it so that the items come from normal (which would definitely kill advanced) or make advanced less punishing in failure but better rewarding for better performance.
But that's the thing. That's not how it works.
Neither New Rom nor Nukara gear requires any Elite Marks.
Dyson E-Marks can be gained from the Dyson Ground Adventurezone.
Undine E-Marks can be gained from the Dyson Space Battlezone.
Omega E-Marks can be gained from the Defera Ground Adventurezone.
Delta E-Marks can be gained from two missions on Kobali Prime, 2 a day.
The APCs, the Delta E-Marks, are the slowest, of those - it would take two weeks to get all the APCs you'd need to get the Torp, DHC, Array, Console, Deflector, Engine, Shield, and Core.
The others don't take that long...as if two weeks for eight pieces of gear is long. Wham, bam, E-Marks done.
So as far as killing Advanced...yeah...tada, this is exactly one of the reasons that various queues have died off.
The same would happen with the Omega and Delta queues as time goes on.
If they provide the same option for the Iconian Resistance Reputation...those queues will be DOA just like the Dyson/Undine queues were.
I have to say my most exciting time in an STF was WAAAYYYY past the timer being gone. This was in old Infected Elite when I was still a straight rookie. A straight PUG, after the optional failed two of the guys bailed leaving us with three. I was running Aegis and MkXI Purple and blue gear back then in a basic Assault Cruiser. The other two were in escorts. So we manage to take down the gateway leaving us to deal with the Tactical Cube. But there was a period where we were popping like popcorn, invisible plasma one shots left and right. We didn't quit at that point because it had become a matter of F-ing PRIDE. Then I get into this period where the other guys had popped so quickly that the respawn timer had to have been at 90 seconds, so I'm alone, but I can't leave the damn thing alone because it will heal up. So I'm firing and whittling it down, and the thing can't kill me, I'm cycling powers and popping heals. Very first time that I was directly and intentionally tanking something. I kept the thing from regenerating, the other guys respawned came back at full power and we finished the TRIBBLE off. It was a horrible performance, took 45 minutes for an old ISE run...but the victory and those BNPs were soooooosweet.
But here's the thing about your story there...there were three of you, yeah? It wasn't a case that you had a 45 minute ISE run with all five folks there. You guys were playing with fewer players, you were facing more of a challenge - you rose up to that challenge...yeah, it took longer - but it was a challenge you faced, got it done, and it felt great, yeah?
I had a Breach during the time that they broke it (wish they'd kept it that way)...first guy bailed early. Second guy bailed inside. Third guy bailed at the start of the second room. Just two of us left. It took forever, but we got it done and each thanked the other for sticking around as long as it took. It was pretty epic.
But if there had been five of us there and it had taken that long...not so epic.
Neither New Rom nor Nukara gear requires any Elite Marks.
Dyson E-Marks can be gained from the Dyson Ground Adventurezone.
Undine E-Marks can be gained from the Dyson Space Battlezone.
Omega E-Marks can be gained from the Defera Ground Adventurezone.
Delta E-Marks can be gained from two missions on Kobali Prime, 2 a day.
The APCs, the Delta E-Marks, are the slowest, of those - it would take two weeks to get all the APCs you'd need to get the Torp, DHC, Array, Console, Deflector, Engine, Shield, and Core.
The others don't take that long...as if two weeks for eight pieces of gear is long. Wham, bam, E-Marks done.
So as far as killing Advanced...yeah...tada, this is exactly one of the reasons that various queues have died off.
The same would happen with the Omega and Delta queues as time goes on.
If they provide the same option for the Iconian Resistance Reputation...those queues will be DOA just like the Dyson/Undine queues were.
Just because some reps don't have them doesn't mean that it's still not a problem. Yes you can get them elsewhere easier does mean that people will do those instead of the queues, either normal or advanced.
Either way, this is a good thing for the queues because only having one way to get things is rather boring. Being able to have a better change to complete an advance in a PuG and to be rewarded more for beating the challenges is a good thing.
Just because some reps don't have them doesn't mean that it's still not a problem. Yes you can get them elsewhere easier does mean that people will do those instead of the queues, either normal or advanced.
Either way, this is a good thing for the queues because only having one way to get things is rather boring. Being able to have a better change to complete an advance in a PuG and to be rewarded more for beating the challenges is a good thing.
But don't you get it? This isn't beating the challenge. This is Cryptic looking at some of their playerbase and saying they're too pathetic to do this. It's freaking insulting to those players. Yet those players are cheering them on as if what Cryptic is doing is a good thing? While usually bashing the players that have been trying to provide helpful information on the queues, piloting, builds, and all the rest which would allow that player to beat the challenge?
* * * * *
And for the teaching folks, giving them an opportunity to learn, as has been brought up elsewhere in the thread (don't want to eat a 120s cd for a second post)...what is the difference between a Mandatory Objective and an Optional Objective going to provide them?
They either didn't do enough DPS, work together, etc...yeah? Well, no - cause that's the same problem with either of them. It being Optional doesn't teach them a thing that it being Mandatory didn't. The changes they'd need to make for the Optional would be the same they'd need to make for Advanced...and neither of them requires being in that particular content to do it.
All this is doing is nerfing rewards...slowing down the average time spent in an Average...and providing a means for folks to get carried if folks decide to stick around to carry them.
...little you know about the game, yet you continue to blather on with suggestions. Yes, that and many other things you post does just that.
Wow, way to go for the ad hominem. :rolleyes: Forgetting a fact and having a civil discussion with the other person who let me know is productive and ultimately gets the fact out there. In contrast, your ad hominem fails to accomplish anything productive other than reflect poorly upon you. It gives the impression of an extremely unpleasant attitude.
Oh, and your little sig? Check the version of my post in the main ANRA change thread. Guess what? I DID call for people to hit the Normal queue too.
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It would help if you at least edited your post before saying something like that...so you know...when somebody clicked it, they didn't see exactly what's in the quote, eh?
But this makes it even better...so you're telling folks to run Azure Nebula Rescue Elite, eh?
Guess we can write that off as another little fact you forgot...you know, cause there isn't an ANRE.
It gives the impression of an extremely unpleasant attitude.
Yep, clueless people making suggestions to Cryptic and adversely affecting the game I enjoy...will result in an extremely unpleasant attitude.
I'm just an average player that could muddle through Advanced queues and enjoyed them. Not into the guaranteed quick runs those DPS folks do - it's not my thing. A bunch of random folks with a shot at getting it done...that's where I'm at.
Normal
Advanced
Elite
Yep, I really dug that they added Advanced...separating the Elite folks off to their thing while acknowledging there were some folks not ready for that but for whom Normal just wouldn't work.
But nope, folks where Normal is where it's at for them until they try the tiniest bit...they just couldn't have that. Need to berate everybody else - scapegoat everybody else - make every excuse in the book...
...yep, unpleasant attitude in response sounds about right.
Again. Making a mistake while posting from work is one thing and normal people can forgive that while letting someone know. I don't have a problem with someone letting me know of an error. Being rude about it? Completely needless. You will notice that the other poster I was speaking with was able to be civil in letting me know. That would be a good example to learn from.
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If I'm reading it right, the base marks for completing a queue are being reduced to the amount normal difficulty awards.
The bonus marks for completing optional objectives will be increased for advanced (and elite).
But, with failoptionals being removed, and optional optionals only being completed incidentally, you won't be seeing those additional marks very often.
Congratulations for a net nerf to mark acquisition that does nothing to address the growing EHP of NPCs.
I wouldn't be surprised if it also included a stealth buff to NPC EHP, to squeeze all those casual PUGs into upgrading.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Again. Making a mistake while posting from work is one thing and normal people can forgive that while letting someone know. I don't have a problem with someone letting me know of an error. Being rude about it? Completely needless. You will notice that the other poster I was speaking with was able to be civil in letting me know. That would be a good example to learn from.
You're not St. George and people doing more than 4k DPS aren't the Dragon.
[whine]But I want elite marks and R&D mats[/whine]
Now that we have more logical stepping stones from level to level, I think that concern is going to diminish as people at least get some of what they want at Advanced. Enough that I think that will lend them increased buying power towards the salvaged tech on the Exchange.
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But here's the thing about your story there...there were three of you, yeah? It wasn't a case that you had a 45 minute ISE run with all five folks there. You guys were playing with fewer players, you were facing more of a challenge - you rose up to that challenge...yeah, it took longer - but it was a challenge you faced, got it done, and it felt great, yeah?
I had a Breach during the time that they broke it (wish they'd kept it that way)...first guy bailed early. Second guy bailed inside. Third guy bailed at the start of the second room. Just two of us left. It took forever, but we got it done and each thanked the other for sticking around as long as it took. It was pretty epic.
But if there had been five of us there and it had taken that long...not so epic.
Yeah. (by the way where are you from anyway? Your usage of yeah has an up north flavor.)
In all honesty that simulated us losing most of our unit and having to finish the mission. It is different from your story of course.
One thing I found that I loved about PUGing were those instances where we actually were forced into those kinds of situations where we had to persevere. Under the timer system though, those would've been shut down. But those instances where those who quit left behind those wouldn't...those were special.
I like a challenge as long as it's fair and logical.
A 700K damage sponge Recluse isn't logical.
Failing a queue because you haven't completed it under an arbitrary timer when nothing else has changed isn't logical.
I say that as the difference between a Cure Space optional where you can get failed for not getting it done in a certain amount of time versus a Khitomer Accord optional where letting the Borg go back in time.
In my view the failing optionals are about the mission's objectives. The only way to fail Cure Space is for the Kang to be destroyed.
Khitomer space, allow the Borg to invade the past fails the mission.
I can accept Infected Space having an optional as you're trying to secure the base by destroying the conduit. But what if after fifteen minutes, you haven't destroyed the conduit, then a Borg Fleet should show up to secure the base and then you're screwed. Add in say, a borg ship needing to dock with the base so a crazy team could say throw tractor beams and repulsors to keep the Borg from actually docking. The difficulty spikes at the end because you have to now kill the Borg, keep the Borg from the base, and still destroy the conduit to save the mission.
I can dig that. Build on to the mission.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Now that we have more logical stepping stones from level to level
That's not what this is. You're projecting your own desires onto what is plainly not described in the proposed changes.
They're just removing failoptionals at the cost to players of fewer marks overall.
They're trying to reset the perception of advanced, so that all the PUG casuals will eat from the upgrade apple.
Looks like they're also hoping to frustrate anyone above 10k, but below 30k+, into doing the same, so that they can get out of lengthy advanced queues bogged down by 2-3k DPS PUGs.
Enough that I think that will lend them increased buying power towards the salvaged tech on the Exchange.
I thought the whole point is that they refuse to upgrade to begin with. Not even to Mk XII VR, streamlined for one weapon type. What do they need salvaged tech for?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
That is good news! It only took people pointing out in various videos of reviewers who were on the test server that the ques for the test server looked exactly the same as the live server before the change happened.
I wonder if this means they'll do something about everything costing dilithium to do in the game now, like will we have to drop dilithium crystals in to the coin slots located in the captain's chair to fire our weapons now?
One thing I found that I loved about PUGing were those instances where we actually were forced into those kinds of situations where we had to persevere.
Those kinds of epic battles are great, when few and far between.
Once they become standard, it's no longer epic but rather a chore.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
One thing I found that I loved about PUGing were those instances where we actually were forced into those kinds of situations where we had to persevere.
Tada...the reason I only pug. It's the closest I can get to what I saw in the shows and movies. I don't want to go bullying my way across the galaxy. That's not what I tuned into watch. Never knowing what's going to be in the group - never knowing what will go right / what will go wrong...it's the dynamic challenge that PvE just couldn't provide otherwise.
They're just removing failoptionals at the cost to players of fewer marks overall.
Not really.
Under the current system, you join an advanced que and get a team that isn't very good or is underpowered and what happens?
You fail and get nothing but a couple marks and a 45 minute cooldown.
Removing failing 'optional' objectives will vastly increase the overall success rate of the que. So even if rewards for success are overall slightly lower then current mark rewards for success, the significant increase in overall success rate will result in a favorable result for the player overall.
Also, add in the fact that you'll get the Dilithium and the R&D component for success and it's absolutely a good thing. If applied to all ques, it might just be enough to bring people back to STO and actually save this game.
The fail conditions and the increased mark rewards however, should remain for Elite Ques. On top of that, every que should have an Elite mode with more powerful enemies, increased risk and increased reward.
Now that we have more logical stepping stones from level to level, I think that concern is going to diminish as people at least get some of what they want at Advanced. Enough that I think that will lend them increased buying power towards the salvaged tech on the Exchange.
What logical stepping stone?
You mean the 1 that was already there and, is now being made easier for those who couldn't cut it in advanced missions to begin with?
So before we had player's, who couldn't cut it in an advanced mission=sucks
To
Making it ever so easier on them but, they still don't learn anything different or, at all=sucks
To, OMG noob that couldn't handle advanced, now barely getting by in new advanced, now thinking they got what it takes to run elites so, mass queueing of noobs again causing grief to other's, by constantly queueing up for elites and utter failing.
Yep, learned nothing before and, still will learn nothing after!
Under the current system, you join an advanced que and get a team that isn't very good or is underpowered and what happens?
You fail and get nothing but a couple marks and a 45 minute cooldown.
Fail conditions aren't being entirely removed. It sounds like bad teams can still fail. ANR and its new fail condition of rescuing 0(!) ships is probably a bad example. I doubt most queues will be that forgiving. And, if they are that forgiving, they could have achieved the same results by just awarding 1 elite mark and 1 crafting mat in normal, while slightly increasing the rewards for advanced and elite.
So even if rewards for success are overall slightly lower then current mark rewards for success
Base rewards for all queues are being set to whatever normal pays out. Optional objectives will pay out more than they currently do.
If you complete the optional objectives, it's a slight nerf to the mark payout.
If you don't complete optional objectives, and the very failure of failoptionals emphasizes that many players don't complete optional objectives, the mark payout is significantly lower.
Essentially, the change is unnoticeable for the DPS channel crowd and their private queues. It's a nerf to PUG mark acquisition.
In other words, it's ok to have a series of increasing difficulty levels, just not this particular one (advanced).
How long before the QQ-train starts that elite is too difficult and needs to be nerfed?
If you're going to attempt to paraphrase me by using the term 'in other words' at least use words that accurately convey the point you're attempting to paraphrase.
If this system were implemented to all ques you would have the following:
Normal Mode: No fail conditions, rewards Marks and small amount of Dilitihium
Advanced Mode: Has an overall fail condition as well as harder enemies. Awards more Dilithium, roughly the same amount of Marks, and R&D Components.
Elite Mode: As several fail conditions, Enemies are harder then Advanced. Offers more marks, more Dilithium and the R&D Components.
I'm not sure how you feel that removal of current fail objectives from Advanced makes them the same as Normal. The enemies are still harder, a fail possibility still exists (it's just less likely,) it takes longer and has the potential to reward more.
If you can't see that, then I can't help you man. This change is a 100% positive, the current state of the ques is a huge contributor to the overall falings of the entire game. They need to be fixed. If you don't like it, you're in the minority.
Comments
So that leaves the mats. If there are Advanced R&D mats, then I don't think we can call the queues entirely the same.
We'll probably have the best indication of the most typical difference between rewards when ISA or VCA is addressed.
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Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
...little you know about the game, yet you continue to blather on with suggestions. Yes, that and many other things you post does just that.
Apparently, they're going to try it with Azure first to see if it's well received. I hope everyone will join me in playing this que over and over and completely ignoring every other que to drive home the message that we want this change across ALL ques.
Once it goes live, Azure is the only que I will play. I'm tired of wasting my time on endeavors that are doomed to fail. I don't even need the marks, I would just rather spending my time earning a reward I don't necessarily need then I would trying to earn something more useful that will probably fail.
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This seems to be closer to a happy medium.
And I applaud the devs for individually tuning each queue as each one should be so different that they require different passes.
I have little doubt that there will be people raging about people failing optionals and rage quitting because they're not getting the absolute max rewards...but people will be playing again.
I have one concern though. I don't see any mention of adjustments to HP of the enemies. And I would like it to be logical. There's no reason for a Tholian cruiser to have over half a million HP, nor is there any reason for a Recluse to have three quarters of a million HP. It's absurd. I understand it's about making up for enemy ships not having resists and all that, but their shields and HP are just about wasting time and enforcing an increase in DPS as the rule rather than the option.
Agreed.
I have to say my most exciting time in an STF was WAAAYYYY past the timer being gone. This was in old Infected Elite when I was still a straight rookie. A straight PUG, after the optional failed two of the guys bailed leaving us with three. I was running Aegis and MkXI Purple and blue gear back then in a basic Assault Cruiser. The other two were in escorts. So we manage to take down the gateway leaving us to deal with the Tactical Cube. But there was a period where we were popping like popcorn, invisible plasma one shots left and right. We didn't quit at that point because it had become a matter of F-ing PRIDE. Then I get into this period where the other guys had popped so quickly that the respawn timer had to have been at 90 seconds, so I'm alone, but I can't leave the damn thing alone because it will heal up. So I'm firing and whittling it down, and the thing can't kill me, I'm cycling powers and popping heals. Very first time that I was directly and intentionally tanking something. I kept the thing from regenerating, the other guys respawned came back at full power and we finished the TRIBBLE off. It was a horrible performance, took 45 minutes for an old ISE run...but the victory and those BNPs were soooooosweet.
But that's the thing. That's not how it works.
Neither New Rom nor Nukara gear requires any Elite Marks.
Dyson E-Marks can be gained from the Dyson Ground Adventurezone.
Undine E-Marks can be gained from the Dyson Space Battlezone.
Omega E-Marks can be gained from the Defera Ground Adventurezone.
Delta E-Marks can be gained from two missions on Kobali Prime, 2 a day.
The APCs, the Delta E-Marks, are the slowest, of those - it would take two weeks to get all the APCs you'd need to get the Torp, DHC, Array, Console, Deflector, Engine, Shield, and Core.
The others don't take that long...as if two weeks for eight pieces of gear is long. Wham, bam, E-Marks done.
So as far as killing Advanced...yeah...tada, this is exactly one of the reasons that various queues have died off.
The same would happen with the Omega and Delta queues as time goes on.
If they provide the same option for the Iconian Resistance Reputation...those queues will be DOA just like the Dyson/Undine queues were.
But here's the thing about your story there...there were three of you, yeah? It wasn't a case that you had a 45 minute ISE run with all five folks there. You guys were playing with fewer players, you were facing more of a challenge - you rose up to that challenge...yeah, it took longer - but it was a challenge you faced, got it done, and it felt great, yeah?
I had a Breach during the time that they broke it (wish they'd kept it that way)...first guy bailed early. Second guy bailed inside. Third guy bailed at the start of the second room. Just two of us left. It took forever, but we got it done and each thanked the other for sticking around as long as it took. It was pretty epic.
But if there had been five of us there and it had taken that long...not so epic.
Either way, this is a good thing for the queues because only having one way to get things is rather boring. Being able to have a better change to complete an advance in a PuG and to be rewarded more for beating the challenges is a good thing.
No, and Undine imposter would have said "Good news, everyone!" :P
But yeah, great news!
But don't you get it? This isn't beating the challenge. This is Cryptic looking at some of their playerbase and saying they're too pathetic to do this. It's freaking insulting to those players. Yet those players are cheering them on as if what Cryptic is doing is a good thing? While usually bashing the players that have been trying to provide helpful information on the queues, piloting, builds, and all the rest which would allow that player to beat the challenge?
* * * * *
And for the teaching folks, giving them an opportunity to learn, as has been brought up elsewhere in the thread (don't want to eat a 120s cd for a second post)...what is the difference between a Mandatory Objective and an Optional Objective going to provide them?
They either didn't do enough DPS, work together, etc...yeah? Well, no - cause that's the same problem with either of them. It being Optional doesn't teach them a thing that it being Mandatory didn't. The changes they'd need to make for the Optional would be the same they'd need to make for Advanced...and neither of them requires being in that particular content to do it.
All this is doing is nerfing rewards...slowing down the average time spent in an Average...and providing a means for folks to get carried if folks decide to stick around to carry them.
Wow, way to go for the ad hominem. :rolleyes: Forgetting a fact and having a civil discussion with the other person who let me know is productive and ultimately gets the fact out there. In contrast, your ad hominem fails to accomplish anything productive other than reflect poorly upon you. It gives the impression of an extremely unpleasant attitude.
Oh, and your little sig? Check the version of my post in the main ANRA change thread. Guess what? I DID call for people to hit the Normal queue too.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22998551&postcount=94
If you're going to quote that, get it right.
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It would help if you at least edited your post before saying something like that...so you know...when somebody clicked it, they didn't see exactly what's in the quote, eh?
But this makes it even better...so you're telling folks to run Azure Nebula Rescue Elite, eh?
Guess we can write that off as another little fact you forgot...you know, cause there isn't an ANRE.
But yeah, keep on posting!
Yep, clueless people making suggestions to Cryptic and adversely affecting the game I enjoy...will result in an extremely unpleasant attitude.
I'm just an average player that could muddle through Advanced queues and enjoyed them. Not into the guaranteed quick runs those DPS folks do - it's not my thing. A bunch of random folks with a shot at getting it done...that's where I'm at.
Normal
Advanced
Elite
Yep, I really dug that they added Advanced...separating the Elite folks off to their thing while acknowledging there were some folks not ready for that but for whom Normal just wouldn't work.
But nope, folks where Normal is where it's at for them until they try the tiniest bit...they just couldn't have that. Need to berate everybody else - scapegoat everybody else - make every excuse in the book...
...yep, unpleasant attitude in response sounds about right.
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The bonus marks for completing optional objectives will be increased for advanced (and elite).
But, with failoptionals being removed, and optional optionals only being completed incidentally, you won't be seeing those additional marks very often.
Congratulations for a net nerf to mark acquisition that does nothing to address the growing EHP of NPCs.
I wouldn't be surprised if it also included a stealth buff to NPC EHP, to squeeze all those casual PUGs into upgrading.
You're not St. George and people doing more than 4k DPS aren't the Dragon.
Now that we have more logical stepping stones from level to level, I think that concern is going to diminish as people at least get some of what they want at Advanced. Enough that I think that will lend them increased buying power towards the salvaged tech on the Exchange.
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Yeah. (by the way where are you from anyway? Your usage of yeah has an up north flavor.)
In all honesty that simulated us losing most of our unit and having to finish the mission. It is different from your story of course.
One thing I found that I loved about PUGing were those instances where we actually were forced into those kinds of situations where we had to persevere. Under the timer system though, those would've been shut down. But those instances where those who quit left behind those wouldn't...those were special.
I like a challenge as long as it's fair and logical.
A 700K damage sponge Recluse isn't logical.
Failing a queue because you haven't completed it under an arbitrary timer when nothing else has changed isn't logical.
I say that as the difference between a Cure Space optional where you can get failed for not getting it done in a certain amount of time versus a Khitomer Accord optional where letting the Borg go back in time.
In my view the failing optionals are about the mission's objectives. The only way to fail Cure Space is for the Kang to be destroyed.
Khitomer space, allow the Borg to invade the past fails the mission.
I can accept Infected Space having an optional as you're trying to secure the base by destroying the conduit. But what if after fifteen minutes, you haven't destroyed the conduit, then a Borg Fleet should show up to secure the base and then you're screwed. Add in say, a borg ship needing to dock with the base so a crazy team could say throw tractor beams and repulsors to keep the Borg from actually docking. The difficulty spikes at the end because you have to now kill the Borg, keep the Borg from the base, and still destroy the conduit to save the mission.
I can dig that. Build on to the mission.
They're just removing failoptionals at the cost to players of fewer marks overall.
They're trying to reset the perception of advanced, so that all the PUG casuals will eat from the upgrade apple.
Looks like they're also hoping to frustrate anyone above 10k, but below 30k+, into doing the same, so that they can get out of lengthy advanced queues bogged down by 2-3k DPS PUGs.
I thought the whole point is that they refuse to upgrade to begin with. Not even to Mk XII VR, streamlined for one weapon type. What do they need salvaged tech for?
I wonder if this means they'll do something about everything costing dilithium to do in the game now, like will we have to drop dilithium crystals in to the coin slots located in the captain's chair to fire our weapons now?
Once they become standard, it's no longer epic but rather a chore.
Tada...the reason I only pug. It's the closest I can get to what I saw in the shows and movies. I don't want to go bullying my way across the galaxy. That's not what I tuned into watch. Never knowing what's going to be in the group - never knowing what will go right / what will go wrong...it's the dynamic challenge that PvE just couldn't provide otherwise.
Heroes don't always win...but they always try.
Not really.
Under the current system, you join an advanced que and get a team that isn't very good or is underpowered and what happens?
You fail and get nothing but a couple marks and a 45 minute cooldown.
Removing failing 'optional' objectives will vastly increase the overall success rate of the que. So even if rewards for success are overall slightly lower then current mark rewards for success, the significant increase in overall success rate will result in a favorable result for the player overall.
Also, add in the fact that you'll get the Dilithium and the R&D component for success and it's absolutely a good thing. If applied to all ques, it might just be enough to bring people back to STO and actually save this game.
The fail conditions and the increased mark rewards however, should remain for Elite Ques. On top of that, every que should have an Elite mode with more powerful enemies, increased risk and increased reward.
What logical stepping stone?
You mean the 1 that was already there and, is now being made easier for those who couldn't cut it in advanced missions to begin with?
So before we had player's, who couldn't cut it in an advanced mission=sucks
To
Making it ever so easier on them but, they still don't learn anything different or, at all=sucks
To, OMG noob that couldn't handle advanced, now barely getting by in new advanced, now thinking they got what it takes to run elites so, mass queueing of noobs again causing grief to other's, by constantly queueing up for elites and utter failing.
Yep, learned nothing before and, still will learn nothing after!
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Base rewards for all queues are being set to whatever normal pays out. Optional objectives will pay out more than they currently do.
If you complete the optional objectives, it's a slight nerf to the mark payout.
If you don't complete optional objectives, and the very failure of failoptionals emphasizes that many players don't complete optional objectives, the mark payout is significantly lower.
Essentially, the change is unnoticeable for the DPS channel crowd and their private queues. It's a nerf to PUG mark acquisition.
In other words, it's ok to have a series of increasing difficulty levels, just not this particular one (advanced).
How long before the QQ-train starts that elite is too difficult and needs to be nerfed?
If you're going to attempt to paraphrase me by using the term 'in other words' at least use words that accurately convey the point you're attempting to paraphrase.
If this system were implemented to all ques you would have the following:
Normal Mode: No fail conditions, rewards Marks and small amount of Dilitihium
Advanced Mode: Has an overall fail condition as well as harder enemies. Awards more Dilithium, roughly the same amount of Marks, and R&D Components.
Elite Mode: As several fail conditions, Enemies are harder then Advanced. Offers more marks, more Dilithium and the R&D Components.
I'm not sure how you feel that removal of current fail objectives from Advanced makes them the same as Normal. The enemies are still harder, a fail possibility still exists (it's just less likely,) it takes longer and has the potential to reward more.
If you can't see that, then I can't help you man. This change is a 100% positive, the current state of the ques is a huge contributor to the overall falings of the entire game. They need to be fixed. If you don't like it, you're in the minority.