For my part, bluegeek, I was never totally closed to new data. Today's ANRA announcement, while it still remains to be seen for sure, may be a preliminary sign of new, more favorable data than what I was originally going off of, and even in my original post I allowed for the possibility things might well be different for the better under Mr. Ricossa's leadership. Jury is still out for me, but I can cite that now as a likely, small positive sign.
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The OP already started out by dismissing all comments that don't fit into his positive box as whinining and attempting to restrict the feedback so that only his concept of what is acceptable is allowed so pardon me if I take offense to it.
Actually, I'd asked that the negatives be kept to other threads, and admitted straight up there were legitimate concerns. To quote myself:
The floor's open, fellow players. While I understand there are concerns and complains, please keep those to other threads. This one is for Taco!
I'd made this thread to collect some positive feedback because Taco expressed his disheartened feelings. I'd hoped that I could get a bunch of the positive feedback into one spot, for his easy reading. I wanted to reach out to a great guy and hopefully lift his spirits - not only with my voice, but the voice of others as well.
I was going to reply to other comments on here as well... but Bluegeek hit it out of the park. I can't really follow that up, so I'll quote it again (in the appropriate colour )
Why is it absolutely necessary to turn every single attempt to make a positive thread into a frigging train wreck?
Stop the arguments and incivility, all of you who are doing it. I don't care why you're doing it. I care that you're derailing this thread.
If you don't want to support Delta Recruiting, that's fine. There are other open threads where you can make your opinions known. If you don't support it and see nothing positive about it, you don't need to post here.
If you do support Delta Recruiting, that's fine. I suggest you stop replying to the people who insist on trying to turn this into another argument.
There is absolutely no reason to bicker with each other over it.
I've been active in other Delta Recruitment threads, putting forward my views on the debate. This was not a thread I created to continue that debate, nor was it a thread designed to end, or even ignore, that debate.
Thanks to everyone who shared some good vibes. It was really nice to see that there were a lot of positive, happy, or otherwise nicely-worded comments in this thread
Not directed at any specific individual, but if the shoe fits...
Why is it absolutely necessary to turn every single attempt to make a positive thread into a frigging train wreck?
Stop the arguments and incivility, all of you who are doing it. I don't care why you're doing it. I care that you're derailing this thread.
If you don't want to support Delta Recruiting, that's fine. There are other open threads where you can make your opinions known. If you don't support it and see nothing positive about it, you don't need to post here.
If you do support Delta Recruiting, that's fine. I suggest you stop replying to the people who insist on trying to turn this into another argument.
There is absolutely no reason to bicker with each other over it.
In a perfect world (believe it or not, no pun intended), this doesn't happen. I would think that a forum moderator, such as yourself, would be used to this by now. You can voice your opinion on how things are SUPPOSED to work, but trolls will be trolls.
That being said, I still stick by my opinion in order to keep this a bit more upbeat.
I don't have any hard numbers, but most of the player-base went back to their mains, using alts as farmers, rather than actually PLAYING them anyway. Why not just make a new farmer that gives account-wide bonuses, instead of not getting a bonus from your current farmers?
I genuinely don't see anything wrong with Delta Recruiting. If you don't want to roll a new alt and want to keep grinding the same STFs with the same old characters then go ahead.
I'm looking forward to, getting a new free characters, replaying some old content with a new twist (which we now get DIL for as well Finally), having the lore fleshed out and getting account wide bonuses for the trouble.
Also MMOs need players to exist so any drive to bring in new players can only be a good thing.
Well, missions take a good deal of time to put together, especially with all the VO scheduling they have to do now. So the release pace of missions is understandable. I'm very happy that we're getting a new mission every month or two - this is kinda awesome.
I would dare to say that the sector space revamp could be considered part of the exploration reintroduction, if not in principle just 'cause it makes sector space a more immersive map and a more fun place to travel. That said, I'm sure building in something for exploration is on the table, but I'm also fairly certain that doing it right is going to take a lot longer than just a month or two. It'll come back, but it'll be season 11 or 12.
Also, they did the Foundry top 3 system, which is along the same track as 'finding random missions while traveling.' I believe somewhere when they were announcing the system, it was said that this was being pushed out specifically as part of reintroducing exploration-style randomness. It also doubled as a hat-tip to Foundry authors for all the great work they do, which is nice to see.
The new sector space is amazing, much more interesting than the current version. It even has nodes for crafting mats! And the roving enemies are much more fun now.
I'm really looking foward to this personally! I havent been able to buy new toon slots for awhile due to work related issues, and because of that I still have not had the chance to see the revamp Federation toturial. This free character slot will let me have the chance to experience something that I have only till now seen in youtube videos and it will have extra special bonuses to go with it. To me thats a win win ^^
I've actually got a few friends that use to play STO way back in the day but left way before LoR came out. I've been urging them to come back with this event and they have all been curious about it and shown interest in it.
Cant wait for April 2nd!
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
To be honest, if you read a lot of the comments that were made about it, including ones I have made, you will see why so many are not fond of this.
It is great for new players, and for those that want to start new characters. But, the ones that were wanting them to do something to make things easier since DR is all about DPS, and ridiculous grinds.
However, instead of doing something that will actually help with alts, they nerf xp rewards, and then offer the Delta Recruit, and say that it was because we were asking for help with our alts. Yet, they want us to start another alt, and level them just to get a little bit of help for our existing alts.
I know that they have more information they will give us. However, so far, the information that we have given us shows that the help to existing alts will be minimal. They may do something to change that, and give the Delta Recruit very useful for those that already have alts.
But unless any bonus xp they give is permanent, then it will just be another character to grind. And after the bonus xp events they offer are gone, we will be back down to the ridiculous xp amounts we have been nerfed down to now.
I am all for them doing something for new players, and those wanting to start a new alt.
But to try to say they are listening to players when they said they want something that will help with alts they already have, and say this is their answer to it, that is just wrong.
They could have done everything but the Delta logo and title for any character we now have, and have them rerun the few missions tied to it, and it would have done the same thing. The only difference is that will not increase their number of new characters created is all.
I think that Tacofangs is very nice to post on the forums, and communicate to the player base when others don't care about the players as much. I admire that. However, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of players have been asking for something that will help with the alts we now have, and we have yet to see that.
All we have seen is more nerfs, and the ones in charge trying to drag out leveling as long as possible to keep players in the game longer, instead of making the game fun enough that they want to stay in the game longer.
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Actually, I'd asked that the negatives be kept to other threads, and admitted straight up there were legitimate concerns. To quote myself:
I'd made this thread to collect some positive feedback because Taco expressed his disheartened feelings. I'd hoped that I could get a bunch of the positive feedback into one spot, for his easy reading. I wanted to reach out to a great guy and hopefully lift his spirits - not only with my voice, but the voice of others as well.
I was going to reply to other comments on here as well... but Bluegeek hit it out of the park. I can't really follow that up, so I'll quote it again (in the appropriate colour )
I've been active in other Delta Recruitment threads, putting forward my views on the debate. This was not a thread I created to continue that debate, nor was it a thread designed to end, or even ignore, that debate.
Thanks to everyone who shared some good vibes. It was really nice to see that there were a lot of positive, happy, or otherwise nicely-worded comments in this thread
My apologies for misunderstanding, and I try to keep my posts as civil as possible. That being said, where exactly in your OP did you admit that you felt there were legitimate concerns?
Taco, Delta recruits do have some positive aspects. It will be good for newer players since they can reap the rewards this event offers and those will carry over to endgame play and their alts. This should entice some new players to try out STO which is great.
I just wish veterans would have had an alternative way to unlock recruit rewards on their mains without having to start a whole new character, even if that alternate route took longer. That is all.
My apologies for misunderstanding, and I try to keep my posts as civil as possible. That being said, where exactly in your OP did you admit that you felt there were legitimate concerns.
No worries
And it was in the part I quoted of myself, where I said I understood that complaints and concerns did exist, but that they should go into the other threads. You're right that it'd be silly for anyone, myself included, to simply ignore any and all criticism for the sake of being a 'white knight' or something. I'd just wanted to keep this single thread as positive as possible.
Trust me - I'mma go shoot some holes in arguments elsewhere. Mwa ha ha
Not directed at any specific individual, but if the shoe fits...
Why is it absolutely necessary to turn every single attempt to make a positive thread into a frigging train wreck?
Stop the arguments and incivility, all of you who are doing it. I don't care why you're doing it. I care that you're derailing this thread.
If you don't want to support Delta Recruiting, that's fine. There are other open threads where you can make your opinions known. If you don't support it and see nothing positive about it, you don't need to post here.
If you do support Delta Recruiting, that's fine. I suggest you stop replying to the people who insist on trying to turn this into another argument.
There is absolutely no reason to bicker with each other over it.
out of curiosity, will the inverse hold true? if I elect to start an anti-delta thread and specify in the op that dissent is not welcome, will you enforce that for me?
out of curiosity, will the inverse hold true? if I elect to start an anti-delta thread and specify in the op that dissent is not welcome, will you enforce that for me?
I think you missed Bluegeek's point.
This thread went way off-topic. The thread was never about if Delta Recruitment is a good thing or not. It was a reply to Taco's tweets.
If I'd intended it to be a discussion on the merits of Delta Recruitment, then the thread would've likely been locked. I would have been at fault for making a duplicate discussion thread when there are still plenty of debates on the subject going on elsewhere.
We've got a situation where one of the game's most community-active devs is feeling down about the negativity. And he's obviously feeling disheartened enough to post about it.
Taco, there is a significant chunk of the playerbase that likes Delta Recruitment.
Of course, some players will throw negative labels on anything they don't like, and they'll complain that it's not what they wanted (case in point: I've honestly seen a lot of 'this isn't a T6 Connie so Delta Recruitment sucks' thrown around :P). But there are a lot of positive comments hidden in the threads as well. And of course there's a portion of the playerbase that isn't on the forums, or doesn't reach out via Twitter, Reddit, etc., so there are voices that aren't being heard.
Negative speak is often the loudest, and the easiest to hear. Positives are often played closer to the chest. So here are some positives that I've felt Delta Recruitment brings to the table:
- account-wide benefits, so playing this new toon will help my other toons at the same time
- new story / mission objectives, refreshing older content as part of the 'let's keep everything up-to-date' approach
- giving a bonus reason for playing the old missions that I enjoyed anyways
- another aspect to the factions' inner workings is being showcased, temporal agencies, lending to more options for future storyline content (pun intended )
- making NPC 'stores' for easy transfer of these new benefits between other toons
- unlockable XP benefits for any player in the server during the event
And on a personal note...
- finally pushing me to make a real Fed alt, so I can get my hands on that sweet, sweet Vesta goodness :cool:
The floor's open, fellow players. While I understand there are concerns and complains, please keep those to other threads. This one is for Taco!
Well I am really looking forward to this event - I already have 23 toons and still have slots available and will be getting one extra with everyone else.
Not only shall I create new toons, I think some of my really low level characters, I shall delete and recreate as Delta Recruits.
Now for the problem... which species shall I run next and on which faction... hmmm.... got to get my thinking cap on as the event starts soon!
I won't disagree that Cryptic has it's fair share of ill conceived systems. However, that goes for any dev shop and I challenge you to name one MMO that is entirely bug free.
I'd like to add to that that he and the other developers should just ignore 90% of what's said on these boards. There are a few legitimate reports of issues, but most posts are just pure unadulterated whine-fests.
As such, my advice to them is to just continue on tackling those little niggling issues that are present as they find them and have the time and capability to take care of them. If it takes a while, oh well.
This post is really, really, REALLY important, because it gets to the heart of why the level of toxicity on the forums - why the fact that, in a game that has consistently improved since launch, a fair chunk of the forum community screams doom at every change and every in-game event - is a problem.
The forums are the community's primary outlet for talking to the devs. STO's devs are REMARKABLY approachable, especially Tacofangs and a few others. I've chatted with Taco in-game; it was a blast! I've never talked with a dev in any other game I've played, even during closed beta tests or other times when the community was small compared with the dev team.
But the forums here are well nigh useless for actual feedback between the developers and the players, because a small but very, very loud (look at the actual threads where the worst venom is being spewed - it's the same small set of people making dozens of posts per thread saying the same thing over and over) group of forumgoers screams doom and demands heads on platters every time the devs say anything, announce anything, change anything. Who has time to sort through all that for actually useful criticism? I wouldn't, and I'm just a player. They have jobs to do - and, if you know anything about the game industry, those jobs almost certainly involve long hours and insufficient pay, because that's how the industry works.
There are legitimate problems with the game. Some serious bugs exist (my own copy keeps crashing on map transfer, I've not finished the City Hard on Defera in weeks because I get frustrated with the Deferi not being glowy, lag and slowdown are occasional issues but very frustrating when they happen), some balance problems are more than frustrating (there difficulty curve between Normal and Elite on queues right now is utterly brutal), and the game itself has a design that, while I'm quite fond of it, isn't for everyone (hint: STO is a game that is most fun in bite-sized chunks over time, especially in the endgame. You're not SUPPOSED to be rushing to get all the specializations unlocked and all your gear up to Mk XIV Legendary; those are things that are supposed to take time so that you don't run out of stuff to do, because devs can never - no matter how big the team - make content as quickly as the quickest players will consume it). These are things that should be talked about - but they're not, or at least they're not being talked about as well as they could be, because a portion of the forum community insists on letting loose conspiracy theories (Delta Recruit is only for metrics! My character will be T5U while recruits will be T6! Money grab somehow!) or celebrating/mourning the death of the game.
This thread went way off-topic. The thread was never about if Delta Recruitment is a good thing or not. It was a reply to Taco's tweets.
If I'd intended it to be a discussion on the merits of Delta Recruitment, then the thread would've likely been locked. I would have been at fault for making a duplicate discussion thread when there are still plenty of debates on the subject going on elsewhere.
If there is one thing everyone on the internet should understand, it's that once your words/photos/whatever are out there, you have 0 control over them.
You can start a thread talking about how great puppies are, but once started, you have no control over where it goes. And when it ends up talking about Zombie Hitler Porcupines from SPACE (echo), you've just got to deal with it.
Edit: and no, apparently I still haven't learned this lesson myself.
If there is one thing everyone on the internet should understand, it's that once your words/photos/whatever are out there, you have 0 control over them.
You can start a thread talking about how great puppies are, but once started, you have no control over where it goes. And when it ends up talking about Zombie Hitler Porcupines from SPACE (echo), you've just got to deal with it.
Edit: and no, apparently I still haven't learned this lesson myself.
Okay, that settles it - when I make my Delta Recruit (and no, my main isn't being "abandoned", any more than the other two alts meant he was "abandoned"), I'm going to have to use the Alien settings to make a Zombie Hitler Porcupine.
(I'd try it in CO, but my next toon there will be a skunk-man named Stinky Pete, thanks to the April Gold Reward there.)
This post is really, really, REALLY important, because it gets to the heart of why the level of toxicity on the forums - why the fact that, in a game that has consistently improved since launch, a fair chunk of the forum community screams doom at every change and every in-game event - is a problem.
The forums are the community's primary outlet for talking to the devs. STO's devs are REMARKABLY approachable, especially Tacofangs and a few others. I've chatted with Taco in-game; it was a blast! I've never talked with a dev in any other game I've played, even during closed beta tests or other times when the community was small compared with the dev team.
But the forums here are well nigh useless for actual feedback between the developers and the players, because a small but very, very loud (look at the actual threads where the worst venom is being spewed - it's the same small set of people making dozens of posts per thread saying the same thing over and over) group of forumgoers screams doom and demands heads on platters every time the devs say anything, announce anything, change anything. Who has time to sort through all that for actually useful criticism? I wouldn't, and I'm just a player. They have jobs to do - and, if you know anything about the game industry, those jobs almost certainly involve long hours and insufficient pay, because that's how the industry works.
There are legitimate problems with the game. Some serious bugs exist (my own copy keeps crashing on map transfer, I've not finished the City Hard on Defera in weeks because I get frustrated with the Deferi not being glowy, lag and slowdown are occasional issues but very frustrating when they happen), some balance problems are more than frustrating (there difficulty curve between Normal and Elite on queues right now is utterly brutal), and the game itself has a design that, while I'm quite fond of it, isn't for everyone (hint: STO is a game that is most fun in bite-sized chunks over time, especially in the endgame. You're not SUPPOSED to be rushing to get all the specializations unlocked and all your gear up to Mk XIV Legendary; those are things that are supposed to take time so that you don't run out of stuff to do, because devs can never - no matter how big the team - make content as quickly as the quickest players will consume it). These are things that should be talked about - but they're not, or at least they're not being talked about as well as they could be, because a portion of the forum community insists on letting loose conspiracy theories (Delta Recruit is only for metrics! My character will be T5U while recruits will be T6! Money grab somehow!) or celebrating/mourning the death of the game.
Reports of STO's death are premature.
I wonder sometimes I'm my enjoyment of the game will be enhanced by not coming to the forums.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If there is one thing everyone on the internet should understand, it's that once your words/photos/whatever are out there, you have 0 control over them.
Well said sir. But eh, that's why there's good moderators in here. But I also do appreciate that us players are given a pretty wide freedom to discuss basically anything - so long as it's not a clear violation of the ToS.
Edit: and no, apparently I still haven't learned this lesson myself.
Please, please tell me that I'm not going to find your... um.... questionable selfies somewhere :eek: And fair warning, you wouldn't want to see mine either :P
Whatever I may think of a dev's decisions, I think that sort of comparison is completely out of line. O_O
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I wonder sometimes I'm my enjoyment of the game will be enhanced by not coming to the forums.
I mostly avoid them myself, except when something in the game is really exciting me and I want to share my excitement with other people who love the game too and OH GOD FLOOD OF NEGATIVITY now I'll go back to my corner and just play STO.
This post is really, really, REALLY important, because it gets to the heart of why the level of toxicity on the forums - why the fact that, in a game that has consistently improved since launch, a fair chunk of the forum community screams doom at every change and every in-game event - is a problem.
The forums are the community's primary outlet for talking to the devs. STO's devs are REMARKABLY approachable, especially Tacofangs and a few others. I've chatted with Taco in-game; it was a blast! I've never talked with a dev in any other game I've played, even during closed beta tests or other times when the community was small compared with the dev team.
But the forums here are well nigh useless for actual feedback between the developers and the players, because a small but very, very loud (look at the actual threads where the worst venom is being spewed - it's the same small set of people making dozens of posts per thread saying the same thing over and over) group of forumgoers screams doom and demands heads on platters every time the devs say anything, announce anything, change anything. Who has time to sort through all that for actually useful criticism? I wouldn't, and I'm just a player. They have jobs to do - and, if you know anything about the game industry, those jobs almost certainly involve long hours and insufficient pay, because that's how the industry works.
There are legitimate problems with the game. Some serious bugs exist (my own copy keeps crashing on map transfer, I've not finished the City Hard on Defera in weeks because I get frustrated with the Deferi not being glowy, lag and slowdown are occasional issues but very frustrating when they happen), some balance problems are more than frustrating (there difficulty curve between Normal and Elite on queues right now is utterly brutal), and the game itself has a design that, while I'm quite fond of it, isn't for everyone (hint: STO is a game that is most fun in bite-sized chunks over time, especially in the endgame. You're not SUPPOSED to be rushing to get all the specializations unlocked and all your gear up to Mk XIV Legendary; those are things that are supposed to take time so that you don't run out of stuff to do, because devs can never - no matter how big the team - make content as quickly as the quickest players will consume it). These are things that should be talked about - but they're not, or at least they're not being talked about as well as they could be, because a portion of the forum community insists on letting loose conspiracy theories (Delta Recruit is only for metrics! My character will be T5U while recruits will be T6! Money grab somehow!) or celebrating/mourning the death of the game.
Reports of STO's death are premature.
^^This^^
IMHO, if more people understood the above, this community wouldn't be the train-wreck it currently is. Also, without going into it here, it seems obvious to me that if the community and forums are out of control as they are, where the failure lies and thus, the fix.
We've got a situation where one of the game's most community-active devs is feeling down about the negativity. And he's obviously feeling disheartened enough to post about it.
Itty Bitty Violins
I'm not even going to try being enthused about this upcoming gimmick. Been let down far too many times in the past and I'm not going to fall for it again. The so-called account-wide stuff is sure to be fairly meh I expect. Nothing you'll swap out from your current stuff I'm sure.
All I'll say in response is that Tacofangs is easily one of the most active devs in the community. His Twitter is filled mostly with replies - often detailed, system-specific replies (sector space revamp pun intended ) - to player questions. And he has shown up in many a thread in this forum to address questions and voice an opinion.
That's all we can ask - if not more than - of the devs of a video game. And as a player of the game, I appreciate his dedication, professionalism mixed with humour and sarcasm, and great contributions to the game and the community. Just as I appreciate all of the devs who take the time to engage with the community.
All I'll say in response is that Tacofangs is easily one of the most active devs in the community. His Twitter is filled mostly with replies - often detailed, system-specific replies (sector space revamp pun intended ) - to player questions. And he has shown up in many a thread in this forum to address questions and voice an opinion.
That's all we can ask - if not more than - of the devs of a video game. And as a player of the game, I appreciate his dedication, professionalism mixed with humour and sarcasm, and great contributions to the game and the community. Just as I appreciate all of the devs who take the time to engage with the community.
I need to correct this slightly. It is more than we have any right to expect from a developer of a video game.
Unfortunately the whiny little cry babies want full 20 mission story arcs put out twice a month that cater 100% to their special snowflake desires, along with everything introduced to be handed to them free of charge and without doing anything to get it other than logging in.
Weren't rewards just increased not long ago? And rolling a Delta Recruit alt will help even further? Sounds to me like yet another cry to get something for nothing.
"Weren't rewards just increased not long ago?"
Not for those that were grinding xp. For the players that were just running queued content, they got a boost to leveling. However, the ones that were grinding xp were nerfed again.
"And rolling a Delta Recruit alt will help even further?"
Again, this will only help new players, and existing players that want to start a new character. So far, from what they have shown, the benefits from this Delta Recruit will be so small that it will not encourage most to re-grind an whole new character. I did touch on this in my previous post.
So far, we are looking at a slight increase to xp, and it still will not offset the xp nerf that was done. Whereas, all we need to do is wait till a bonus xp weekend, and we don't need to re-grind a new character.
So, unless you just want to re-grind a new character, or are a new player to STO, this will not actually help the ones that have been asking for help with alts. It is a way to increase metrics by having a lot of new characters being started.
"Sounds to me like yet another cry to get something for nothing."
And this is just nothing but trolling. Honestly, that phrase can be used on everything complained about in the game that one person likes, but others don't, and they want to insult them.
Look at the queued missions that were not giving out xp before the latest nerf. There were players that were complaining that they didn't want to grind xp to level their characters like others were. They wanted to play queued content, but they wanted the xp that those that were grinding were getting.
They were not grinding the patrols to get xp, they were grinding the queued content to get their marks.
Does this meant that they were "yet another cry to get something for nothing."? By your statement, that would apply because there were some that disagreed with them. There were some that thought that if they wanted to gain xp to level, then they should be working for it like they wanted to.
So you see, that phrase is nothing more than a troll statement that is thrown out when someone doesn't have a good response, and just want to insult the other person do draw attention away from the fact they don't have a good response.
And for the record, I was all for adding xp to the queued content. I was not for nerfing the patrols so that the ones that wanted to keep grinding xp couldn't.
Also, when you look at it, there were some asking for help with their alts with the rep systems. They did help them, and didn't require them to re-grind a whole new character just to get some help. It is not that everyone asking for help with alts want something free. It is that we want our alts to be as useful as they were before DR, but they keep nerfing xp, and increasing the ridiculous grind to help get them there.
On top of that, the outrageous cost to upgrade gear, just for it to be a gamble what you will get if it increases in quality is too much.
So, while some will benefit from the Delta Recruit because they are new, or they just want to start a new character, others that already have a lot of alts that were made useless don't want more alts that will be useless after a few weeks. And we don't want to re-grind a new main character, thereby making our previous one another alt that will be useless.
I hope this helps to clear up the confusion in what I was trying to say.
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It did, thank you. You've already stated that the event is for new players and those interested in trying a new alt. Those are exactly what the Delta Recruit event is targeted toward. If it doesn't interest you, then don't do it. It's not mandatory.
I know that it is not a mandatory event. That was made clear from the developers.
In my first post in this thread, I was stating why there are a lot of players upset with this. It is because they have been asking for things that will help their alts. But nothing was done. Then, they do this, and it looks to many like they want them to re-grind a new main.
That is why there is a lot of flack coming from this. And it looks like the developers in charge are advertising this as the "help" they are giving to players with alts.
I didn't reply that I was under the impression that I needed to start a new character. I was only explaining why so many were upset with it.
Since DR came out, there have been nerf after nerf hitting players. The ones in charge have been making decision to punish players that don't play the way they want them to. They have made so few positive changes compared to negative ones, and it has many on edge.
Personally, I thank Tacofangs for all the communications he has done, and I know that he is not the one that is making the bad decisions. He is just one of the Developers that has to do what they tell him. And that is why I use a term that reflects that I am talking about the developers in charge, or the ones making the decisions when I talk about the bad choices they have done.
He has shown that he loves Star Trek, and by his actions he has also shown that he wants to see STO progress, and continue to grow. I also know that he gets a lot of flack from ones that don't know that he is not the one that makes the big decisions. To tell the truth, I wish he was a lot of times.
As to what will happen in the future, only time will tell. But I hope that the Delta Recruit will bring new players into the game, and that the developers in charge will continue to make changes to undo some of the bad mistakes made with DR. We need more players in this game since the recent loss of so many.
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Funny, I've seen more neutral changes than positive or negative.
But then, unlike certain camps, I'm not looking for something to ***** and whine about.
To be honest, it depends on where you stand. As I mentioned before, one example is if you were one of the players that was grinding xp, then you were nerfed. If you were one of the ones that didn't want to grind xp, but was playing the queues, then you got more rewards with the added xp.
To one, they were nerfed, while the others were given something.
You are right, there are some that just want to complain about something, with no merit. However, there are others that do have just complaints.
By looking at the example I gave above, if there was someone that was grinding xp, why did they have to nerf them, and then give xp to other queues. If it was not to herd players into content they wanted them to play, then they could have left their grind alone, and still added xp to other content. Now it will take them even longer to level. Not to mention the other previous xp nerfs that were made.
So as to whether not hot is is neutral depends on where you stand. For you, the changes might not have had any affect on you. But to others it may either negatively, or positively affect them. And anytime there is a negative affect, with no good reason for it, that is not good. It discourages those players.
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First this had me looking forward to giving KDF another try and now they go and announce they are changing Advanced queues.
This lack of fear and loathing is an unfamiliar feeling. It feels kinda nice.
Actually, I'd asked that the negatives be kept to other threads, and admitted straight up there were legitimate concerns. To quote myself:
I'd made this thread to collect some positive feedback because Taco expressed his disheartened feelings. I'd hoped that I could get a bunch of the positive feedback into one spot, for his easy reading. I wanted to reach out to a great guy and hopefully lift his spirits - not only with my voice, but the voice of others as well.
I was going to reply to other comments on here as well... but Bluegeek hit it out of the park. I can't really follow that up, so I'll quote it again (in the appropriate colour
I've been active in other Delta Recruitment threads, putting forward my views on the debate. This was not a thread I created to continue that debate, nor was it a thread designed to end, or even ignore, that debate.
Thanks to everyone who shared some good vibes. It was really nice to see that there were a lot of positive, happy, or otherwise nicely-worded comments in this thread
In a perfect world (believe it or not, no pun intended), this doesn't happen. I would think that a forum moderator, such as yourself, would be used to this by now. You can voice your opinion on how things are SUPPOSED to work, but trolls will be trolls.
That being said, I still stick by my opinion in order to keep this a bit more upbeat.
I'm looking forward to, getting a new free characters, replaying some old content with a new twist (which we now get DIL for as well Finally), having the lore fleshed out and getting account wide bonuses for the trouble.
Also MMOs need players to exist so any drive to bring in new players can only be a good thing.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
My character Tsin'xing
I've actually got a few friends that use to play STO way back in the day but left way before LoR came out. I've been urging them to come back with this event and they have all been curious about it and shown interest in it.
Cant wait for April 2nd!
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
It is great for new players, and for those that want to start new characters. But, the ones that were wanting them to do something to make things easier since DR is all about DPS, and ridiculous grinds.
However, instead of doing something that will actually help with alts, they nerf xp rewards, and then offer the Delta Recruit, and say that it was because we were asking for help with our alts. Yet, they want us to start another alt, and level them just to get a little bit of help for our existing alts.
I know that they have more information they will give us. However, so far, the information that we have given us shows that the help to existing alts will be minimal. They may do something to change that, and give the Delta Recruit very useful for those that already have alts.
But unless any bonus xp they give is permanent, then it will just be another character to grind. And after the bonus xp events they offer are gone, we will be back down to the ridiculous xp amounts we have been nerfed down to now.
I am all for them doing something for new players, and those wanting to start a new alt.
But to try to say they are listening to players when they said they want something that will help with alts they already have, and say this is their answer to it, that is just wrong.
They could have done everything but the Delta logo and title for any character we now have, and have them rerun the few missions tied to it, and it would have done the same thing. The only difference is that will not increase their number of new characters created is all.
I think that Tacofangs is very nice to post on the forums, and communicate to the player base when others don't care about the players as much. I admire that. However, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of players have been asking for something that will help with the alts we now have, and we have yet to see that.
All we have seen is more nerfs, and the ones in charge trying to drag out leveling as long as possible to keep players in the game longer, instead of making the game fun enough that they want to stay in the game longer.
My apologies for misunderstanding, and I try to keep my posts as civil as possible. That being said, where exactly in your OP did you admit that you felt there were legitimate concerns?
Taco, Delta recruits do have some positive aspects. It will be good for newer players since they can reap the rewards this event offers and those will carry over to endgame play and their alts. This should entice some new players to try out STO which is great.
I just wish veterans would have had an alternative way to unlock recruit rewards on their mains without having to start a whole new character, even if that alternate route took longer. That is all.
No worries
And it was in the part I quoted of myself, where I said I understood that complaints and concerns did exist, but that they should go into the other threads. You're right that it'd be silly for anyone, myself included, to simply ignore any and all criticism for the sake of being a 'white knight' or something. I'd just wanted to keep this single thread as positive as possible.
Trust me - I'mma go shoot some holes in arguments elsewhere. Mwa ha ha
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I think you missed Bluegeek's point.
This thread went way off-topic. The thread was never about if Delta Recruitment is a good thing or not. It was a reply to Taco's tweets.
If I'd intended it to be a discussion on the merits of Delta Recruitment, then the thread would've likely been locked. I would have been at fault for making a duplicate discussion thread when there are still plenty of debates on the subject going on elsewhere.
Well I am really looking forward to this event - I already have 23 toons and still have slots available and will be getting one extra with everyone else.
Not only shall I create new toons, I think some of my really low level characters, I shall delete and recreate as Delta Recruits.
Now for the problem... which species shall I run next and on which faction... hmmm.... got to get my thinking cap on as the event starts soon!
This post is really, really, REALLY important, because it gets to the heart of why the level of toxicity on the forums - why the fact that, in a game that has consistently improved since launch, a fair chunk of the forum community screams doom at every change and every in-game event - is a problem.
The forums are the community's primary outlet for talking to the devs. STO's devs are REMARKABLY approachable, especially Tacofangs and a few others. I've chatted with Taco in-game; it was a blast! I've never talked with a dev in any other game I've played, even during closed beta tests or other times when the community was small compared with the dev team.
But the forums here are well nigh useless for actual feedback between the developers and the players, because a small but very, very loud (look at the actual threads where the worst venom is being spewed - it's the same small set of people making dozens of posts per thread saying the same thing over and over) group of forumgoers screams doom and demands heads on platters every time the devs say anything, announce anything, change anything. Who has time to sort through all that for actually useful criticism? I wouldn't, and I'm just a player. They have jobs to do - and, if you know anything about the game industry, those jobs almost certainly involve long hours and insufficient pay, because that's how the industry works.
There are legitimate problems with the game. Some serious bugs exist (my own copy keeps crashing on map transfer, I've not finished the City Hard on Defera in weeks because I get frustrated with the Deferi not being glowy, lag and slowdown are occasional issues but very frustrating when they happen), some balance problems are more than frustrating (there difficulty curve between Normal and Elite on queues right now is utterly brutal), and the game itself has a design that, while I'm quite fond of it, isn't for everyone (hint: STO is a game that is most fun in bite-sized chunks over time, especially in the endgame. You're not SUPPOSED to be rushing to get all the specializations unlocked and all your gear up to Mk XIV Legendary; those are things that are supposed to take time so that you don't run out of stuff to do, because devs can never - no matter how big the team - make content as quickly as the quickest players will consume it). These are things that should be talked about - but they're not, or at least they're not being talked about as well as they could be, because a portion of the forum community insists on letting loose conspiracy theories (Delta Recruit is only for metrics! My character will be T5U while recruits will be T6! Money grab somehow!) or celebrating/mourning the death of the game.
Reports of STO's death are premature.
If there is one thing everyone on the internet should understand, it's that once your words/photos/whatever are out there, you have 0 control over them.
You can start a thread talking about how great puppies are, but once started, you have no control over where it goes. And when it ends up talking about Zombie Hitler Porcupines from SPACE (echo), you've just got to deal with it.
Edit: and no, apparently I still haven't learned this lesson myself.
(I'd try it in CO, but my next toon there will be a skunk-man named Stinky Pete, thanks to the April Gold Reward there.)
I wonder sometimes I'm my enjoyment of the game will be enhanced by not coming to the forums.
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Well said sir. But eh, that's why there's good moderators in here. But I also do appreciate that us players are given a pretty wide freedom to discuss basically anything - so long as it's not a clear violation of the ToS.
Please, please tell me that I'm not going to find your... um.... questionable selfies somewhere :eek: And fair warning, you wouldn't want to see mine either :P
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I mostly avoid them myself, except when something in the game is really exciting me and I want to share my excitement with other people who love the game too and OH GOD FLOOD OF NEGATIVITY now I'll go back to my corner and just play STO.
^^This^^
IMHO, if more people understood the above, this community wouldn't be the train-wreck it currently is. Also, without going into it here, it seems obvious to me that if the community and forums are out of control as they are, where the failure lies and thus, the fix.
Itty Bitty Violins
I'm not even going to try being enthused about this upcoming gimmick. Been let down far too many times in the past and I'm not going to fall for it again. The so-called account-wide stuff is sure to be fairly meh I expect. Nothing you'll swap out from your current stuff I'm sure.
IMO, it's just another mule/farming alt slot.
PS: Wil Cohen is a real whitey-knightey isn't he?
All I'll say in response is that Tacofangs is easily one of the most active devs in the community. His Twitter is filled mostly with replies - often detailed, system-specific replies (sector space revamp pun intended
That's all we can ask - if not more than - of the devs of a video game. And as a player of the game, I appreciate his dedication, professionalism mixed with humour and sarcasm, and great contributions to the game and the community. Just as I appreciate all of the devs who take the time to engage with the community.
I need to correct this slightly. It is more than we have any right to expect from a developer of a video game.
Unfortunately the whiny little cry babies want full 20 mission story arcs put out twice a month that cater 100% to their special snowflake desires, along with everything introduced to be handed to them free of charge and without doing anything to get it other than logging in.
"Weren't rewards just increased not long ago?"
Not for those that were grinding xp. For the players that were just running queued content, they got a boost to leveling. However, the ones that were grinding xp were nerfed again.
This can be seen here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1385711
And this was just after nerfing xp rewards again.
"And rolling a Delta Recruit alt will help even further?"
Again, this will only help new players, and existing players that want to start a new character. So far, from what they have shown, the benefits from this Delta Recruit will be so small that it will not encourage most to re-grind an whole new character. I did touch on this in my previous post.
So far, we are looking at a slight increase to xp, and it still will not offset the xp nerf that was done. Whereas, all we need to do is wait till a bonus xp weekend, and we don't need to re-grind a new character.
So, unless you just want to re-grind a new character, or are a new player to STO, this will not actually help the ones that have been asking for help with alts. It is a way to increase metrics by having a lot of new characters being started.
"Sounds to me like yet another cry to get something for nothing."
And this is just nothing but trolling. Honestly, that phrase can be used on everything complained about in the game that one person likes, but others don't, and they want to insult them.
Look at the queued missions that were not giving out xp before the latest nerf. There were players that were complaining that they didn't want to grind xp to level their characters like others were. They wanted to play queued content, but they wanted the xp that those that were grinding were getting.
They were not grinding the patrols to get xp, they were grinding the queued content to get their marks.
Does this meant that they were "yet another cry to get something for nothing."? By your statement, that would apply because there were some that disagreed with them. There were some that thought that if they wanted to gain xp to level, then they should be working for it like they wanted to.
So you see, that phrase is nothing more than a troll statement that is thrown out when someone doesn't have a good response, and just want to insult the other person do draw attention away from the fact they don't have a good response.
And for the record, I was all for adding xp to the queued content. I was not for nerfing the patrols so that the ones that wanted to keep grinding xp couldn't.
Also, when you look at it, there were some asking for help with their alts with the rep systems. They did help them, and didn't require them to re-grind a whole new character just to get some help. It is not that everyone asking for help with alts want something free. It is that we want our alts to be as useful as they were before DR, but they keep nerfing xp, and increasing the ridiculous grind to help get them there.
On top of that, the outrageous cost to upgrade gear, just for it to be a gamble what you will get if it increases in quality is too much.
So, while some will benefit from the Delta Recruit because they are new, or they just want to start a new character, others that already have a lot of alts that were made useless don't want more alts that will be useless after a few weeks. And we don't want to re-grind a new main character, thereby making our previous one another alt that will be useless.
I hope this helps to clear up the confusion in what I was trying to say.
I know that it is not a mandatory event. That was made clear from the developers.
In my first post in this thread, I was stating why there are a lot of players upset with this. It is because they have been asking for things that will help their alts. But nothing was done. Then, they do this, and it looks to many like they want them to re-grind a new main.
That is why there is a lot of flack coming from this. And it looks like the developers in charge are advertising this as the "help" they are giving to players with alts.
I didn't reply that I was under the impression that I needed to start a new character. I was only explaining why so many were upset with it.
Since DR came out, there have been nerf after nerf hitting players. The ones in charge have been making decision to punish players that don't play the way they want them to. They have made so few positive changes compared to negative ones, and it has many on edge.
Personally, I thank Tacofangs for all the communications he has done, and I know that he is not the one that is making the bad decisions. He is just one of the Developers that has to do what they tell him. And that is why I use a term that reflects that I am talking about the developers in charge, or the ones making the decisions when I talk about the bad choices they have done.
He has shown that he loves Star Trek, and by his actions he has also shown that he wants to see STO progress, and continue to grow. I also know that he gets a lot of flack from ones that don't know that he is not the one that makes the big decisions. To tell the truth, I wish he was a lot of times.
As to what will happen in the future, only time will tell. But I hope that the Delta Recruit will bring new players into the game, and that the developers in charge will continue to make changes to undo some of the bad mistakes made with DR. We need more players in this game since the recent loss of so many.
Funny, I've seen more neutral changes than positive or negative.
But then, unlike certain camps, I'm not looking for something to ***** and whine about.
To be honest, it depends on where you stand. As I mentioned before, one example is if you were one of the players that was grinding xp, then you were nerfed. If you were one of the ones that didn't want to grind xp, but was playing the queues, then you got more rewards with the added xp.
To one, they were nerfed, while the others were given something.
You are right, there are some that just want to complain about something, with no merit. However, there are others that do have just complaints.
By looking at the example I gave above, if there was someone that was grinding xp, why did they have to nerf them, and then give xp to other queues. If it was not to herd players into content they wanted them to play, then they could have left their grind alone, and still added xp to other content. Now it will take them even longer to level. Not to mention the other previous xp nerfs that were made.
So as to whether not hot is is neutral depends on where you stand. For you, the changes might not have had any affect on you. But to others it may either negatively, or positively affect them. And anytime there is a negative affect, with no good reason for it, that is not good. It discourages those players.