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Avoiding DPSers
sodamninsane1978
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
<frustrated_rant>
Is there anyone I can go in this game to get away from the endless DPS race and constant power creep? I've been flying the same 3rd Anniversary Ambassador build for two years, recently upgraded to the Kobali cruiser, not l33t but good enough to handle Advanced STFs or get 1st or 2nd most of the time in a pug CCA group, but I don't like flying aggressively or racing point to point to max out some timer. I'm not in any rush so long as everything is done successfully and within the mission timer, but other than that I prefer to take it easy rather than push it.
But playing the game these days, it seems like everyone is so minmaxed and powered-up to the gills that if I do anything less than sprint through everything I may as well not even participate. I tried a CCA today where I was the only one in the group with under 20 buffs running, and I counted multiple lockbox traits, specialization traits, and lockbox-ship traits on all four of them, and they hit the Entity with so much force that when it started charging the 66% pulse, by the time the pulse fired the Entity's health was in the 40s. After that I tried to just cool out with a simple ISN for some quick omega marks, just plain Normal, and got two guys in a Scimitar and a Reculse who first announced they were parsing and then went so overkill on everything that by the time they killed the right transformer before I even got into firing range, I just threw up my hands and AFKed the rest of it. Nothing I did was going to matter, so why bother?
Now I'm not saying to nerf anything, as people will do what they do and I can't control that. But I don't grind, I don't farm, I don't fleet, I don't use lockbox stuff, I'm only lvl 56 so far, I don't enjoy aggressive piloting, and I'm not in any particular rush. Unfortunately it seems that with that approach to the game, I can't really participate anymore. Is there anywhere I can go to still play the way I like to play, groups for non-minmaxers or anything like that? Because right now it seems like the psycho power creep is everywhere, even Normal pugs fer chrissake, and all I want to play somewhere where they aren't. Is there such a place anymore?
</frustrated_rant>
Is there anyone I can go in this game to get away from the endless DPS race and constant power creep? I've been flying the same 3rd Anniversary Ambassador build for two years, recently upgraded to the Kobali cruiser, not l33t but good enough to handle Advanced STFs or get 1st or 2nd most of the time in a pug CCA group, but I don't like flying aggressively or racing point to point to max out some timer. I'm not in any rush so long as everything is done successfully and within the mission timer, but other than that I prefer to take it easy rather than push it.
But playing the game these days, it seems like everyone is so minmaxed and powered-up to the gills that if I do anything less than sprint through everything I may as well not even participate. I tried a CCA today where I was the only one in the group with under 20 buffs running, and I counted multiple lockbox traits, specialization traits, and lockbox-ship traits on all four of them, and they hit the Entity with so much force that when it started charging the 66% pulse, by the time the pulse fired the Entity's health was in the 40s. After that I tried to just cool out with a simple ISN for some quick omega marks, just plain Normal, and got two guys in a Scimitar and a Reculse who first announced they were parsing and then went so overkill on everything that by the time they killed the right transformer before I even got into firing range, I just threw up my hands and AFKed the rest of it. Nothing I did was going to matter, so why bother?
Now I'm not saying to nerf anything, as people will do what they do and I can't control that. But I don't grind, I don't farm, I don't fleet, I don't use lockbox stuff, I'm only lvl 56 so far, I don't enjoy aggressive piloting, and I'm not in any particular rush. Unfortunately it seems that with that approach to the game, I can't really participate anymore. Is there anywhere I can go to still play the way I like to play, groups for non-minmaxers or anything like that? Because right now it seems like the psycho power creep is everywhere, even Normal pugs fer chrissake, and all I want to play somewhere where they aren't. Is there such a place anymore?
</frustrated_rant>
Post edited by sodamninsane1978 on
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Comments
TBH there's no excuse for getting to a transformer as it's blowing up. Full Impulse isn't hard to find neither is Evasive Manouvre's, the combo of the two means getting from A to B a little quicker.
I don't know anyone who prefers to play something or do something at lower than their best performance. Thankyou for allowing me to encounter one.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
sure. come to kerrat.
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Apparently excessive dps isn't allowed and teamwork is encouraged.
It's not a bad channel, but it isn't what it used to be.
Once upon a time it was all canon only builds and measured DPS. But since DR arriving and the goalposts being moved back everyone has settled back into their top DPS builds and ships. I remember some chatter about redoing the build rules once everyone was used to the new levels and new limitations put in place, but no idea if it actually happened.
There is still good banter and teamwork, and they wouldn't moan if you weren't pumping out as much damage as you could/should. So there is that.
As for OP, I hear you. I too prefer actual fighting rather than steamrolling everything in seconds, it's just so boring. Sometimes you do get lucky in a random PUG, and there are the battle zones as well.
I've stated a few times here and there that I do not believe the underlying combat system was designed to deal with anything from around Season 6 on. What content actually requires even a S5 build?
I've stated a few times here and there that I wished "Advanced" and "Elite" meant something for the content. Flying around in circles while watching Netflix doesn't equate to "Advanced" nor "Elite".
So yeah, basically everybody enjoying huge numbers or folks enjoying being "Elite" while flying around in circles watching Netflix...any suggestions I'd make would just TRIBBLE them off.
So rather than waste any time typing it all out, just to have it be ignored and TRIBBLE folks off in the process...
...figured I'd just do that TLDR version there to TRIBBLE folks off.
It's true that there is a massive difference between "good" and "average" players. Good players will be doing around five to ten times what an average player will do fairly easily (Average being ~5-10k, while good players are doing 50-80k). A truly exceptional player (and supporting team, on a good day) will top out over a 100k higher than that, and who knows how much higher that's going to get.
However.. those things don't really need nerfs. There's not really anything wrong with Aux2Batt. It's actually a rather balanced ability that sacrifices auxiliary skills for greater offensive and defensive power, which allows a cruiser to move from being below average to a bit better than your average cannon escort. Moving from A2B to other, more powerful (but extremely expensive) setups will move you to the next level. Some things could stand to be fixed, and the power creep really needs to be fixed.. but that's going to be a serious re-balancing of just about everything.. something Cryptic's not likely to do.
To be honest though, the true problem isn't the people on top. That 100x gap would be far, far less if the "average" player wasn't so utterly, hopelessly, and quite frankly idiotically underperforming. If you're under 10k in a T5 or higher boat, something is seriously wrong. That can easily be achieved with nothing but greens, human boffs, and no expensive traits and the like. STO allows the player to make an extreme number of mistakes, and most of those mistakes on their own will seriously hamper your ability to cause damage. Several of them together will leave you unable to do much of anything, which is where most players unknowingly are.
In a way, this isn't a terribly bad thing. A system that allows for differentiation of good and bad players is good. A system that allows for massive flexibility and customization is good. However, in this case we've got a community that is fairly certain they're doing the right thing and don't care enough to learn what they need to change. We've got a system that allows players a ton of customization, but doesn't really teach them what to do with those options.. and in fact is extremely misleading. Ships come with horrendous default loadouts.. the vast majority of ships that are released are just plain bad, and even the developers showcase incredibly poor setups during live streams. Instead of complaining about how "good" players ruin the game, it might be better to be proactive and work on improving those on the low end. That's something we as a community actually have the power to do (and some have been.. the participating in the DPS channels completely changes the game).
On that note - to the OP, while the Samsar may look tempting as a Fleet level T6 ship, there's a reason it's given out for free. It's a truly terrible ship with almost no offensive power and little to no defensive gain. There are a hundred better options out there. Its seating, consoles and traits are all pretty much the worst you can possibly get for a cruiser.
just pug or play w ith other NON DPSppl
the DPS community MOSTLY plays witth: the DPS community
it took me almost 3 years to switch out to the excelsior which has been in the z store, back then the c-store since before i joined. i switched out and upgraded it to t5-u, other then that the tactical consoles have had a few upgrades and the plasmonic leech recently but otherwise the ship hasnt seen any real upgrade since i bought the nanite disruptor mk xi blues.
i dont really care much about the dps race, never will. if the dps is enough for the storyline then thats good enough and there wont be any upgrades or fairly little.
i dont even notice all that dps stuff, i just get on with my own thing, problem solved.
as far as boff skills go, what was a2b was replaced with apteb, i had to switch those out to dem, however it has not made as much difference as i though because of eptw.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
STB is somewhat a place like that as well as we try to keep things as canon as possible.
I feel I had to quote that as it is true and I'm glad I'm hearing some feed back since DR.
It is true that the dps cap has been lifted and that was ONLY to those who chose to do so with the intent of completing some of the harder STF's such as Korfez or Hive. We have completed Korfez and Hive advanced but the other ones still require some work but again.. ONLY to those who choose. I myself have tried to increase my dps but am again finding myself going back to my old builds like more torp heavy.
I also do have to admit that the old T1/2 ship runs have not been done lately and I'll speak to that as to why... For me its the events and doffing and such that really take time away.. I can totally choose NOT to do them but my OCD kicks in haha.
BUT, we have never nor will ever ask anyone to raise their dps... if we lose an stf.. we lose it and if we win.. all the more sweeter as we did it in canon builds. ISA/KASA/CSA do not require 15k dps .... maybe about 6 - 8ish is my feeling. Even with that in mind we still have had some close calls which calls for some great gaming cuz we take the whole time alotted to us.
One of the turn offs I have heard was the keeping it canon part.... that part will never change.... I like my torps fore and aft... so that part will never change as we are trying to keep it close to the shows.
If you feel that this is something for you I highly encourage you to try... as mentioned we do love to talk in chat and its a great environment to be in IMO as well as others.
Hope you find what your looking for.
Those packs would come with 5-6 trained boffs, 5 doffs, a complete set of at least green, a good chance of at least one blue and a chance for one purple item to outfit a ship.
The boff powers and gear would be balanced toward a certain role and give the player buying it a starting point for optimization.
The pack could also include a couple of recommended (or even unique) traits, a spec point token and a career matching balanced skill point preset.
Those packs would not put anyone in the top DPS league but get everyone at least in the 5k-10k dps range?
For each ship type you'd have maybe 3 preselected roles you can choose from: DPS, Support, Tank.
Not anyone else's fault but their own if their "active playing" means they're really AFK. The threshold for the game not to consider you AFK is so low that it's easily avoided.
SHOOT SOMETHING.
Thats exactly the one point that makes you channel unattractive for ppl like me. Losing is unnecessary, going in without the intention to win is a sin.
As for the OP: Obviously you can avoid us by moving to another game, only play single player missions or make a channel "we like to be carried", and then look how good 5ppl who need carrying will perform
What you're suggesting is just ridiculous. Because some people can't be bothered to rub two brain cells together to figure out what does the most damage and how to get more of that thing and or make it even better (or even just learn the basic mechanics of the game - like range and system power).. we have to get rid of everything that makes some players better than others? That logic just doesn't make any sense. What will you say when everyone starts running CSV escorts and still slaughters everyone else in DPS by a ridiculous margin?
As for A2B.. very few still use it. There are better alternatives available now. A2B is mainly used as a way to get engineering heavy cruisers that are light on tactical seating to be competitive with ships that have Commander tactical abilities. It's not as great as you'd think, you lose access to the aux offense trait, all science abilities become nearly useless, and you sacrifice several engineering slots. In return you pretty much get your Emergency Power to Weapons/Shields and FAW 3/APB reduced to the group cooldown, as if you has two of each. Essentially you're turning your cruiser into what it should have been all along.. a battlecruiser that can actually utilize offensive abilities regularly. As I said though, this is really only for the 20-30k range. Most above that are running extremely expensive setups using specialized doffs and traits.
As for cannons.. they used to be top dog. Now they're not. That happens in MMO's. They're not bad, they're just less useful all around, as their firing arcs are more limited (as is their AoE attack). Cannons also lose damage far more severely than beams do at range - something like an extra 20% of your damage simply disappears at range, which basically means the damage you gain by swapping to cannons evaporates right there. There's also the inherent difference in weapon numbers.. cruisers run 8 beams, and that adds up to more damage than an escort with 4 cannons and 3 turrets (or even 5 cannons and 2 turrets). Now that we have omni-arrays, many also choose to use DBB/Omni setups on 5/2 ships (or 5/3) that previously may have used cannons. Between the flaws inherent in the cannon abilities and the option to run DBB/Omni setups.. there's just no reason to run cannons anymore. That's not a reason to change beams, merely an indication that something is wrong with cannons.
Dropping the CrtD modifier.. isn't likely to happen. How would they even do it? Just take all our extremely expensive CrtD weapons and replace them with versions that have random modifiers? Maybe just turn all [CrtD] into [Dmg]? Can you imagine the backlash from that? Oh, we're sorry.. we know you worked really hard for all those weapons (and maybe even spent real money on dilithium to upgrade them).. but you made everyone else look bad and they cried, so we're taking them away. There's no way they could possibly consider it. Instead, they should improve the other modifiers.. you know, the other dozen or so that exist seemingly for no other reason than to make crafting [CrtD] weapons a massive pain as they're so incredibly useless they hardly do anything.. or in some cases might even HARM your ship's performance?
Moral of the story.. what's working is working. We like what's working. Instead of breaking what's working, let's fix what isn't and give us other new and interesting things that work just as well.. and balance the game around that. Why everyone assumes the game should be balanced around broken setups using nearly useless skills, traits, and weapon modifiers.. I'll never understand. It's like designing your end game to be completed by level 10's, because you just know your players can't be bothered to level to 60.
Or, you could do something as radical as trying to improve your game.
Have you ever stopped to wonder why?! I'll give you a hint: it's not BFAW, nor A2B, nor beams in general... It's YOU. Seriously. You're using the same BFAW as they do, yet, with only 12k, you perform relatively poorly.
I'll give you another hint: it's all about the cycling. Watch any of RyanSTO's instructive vids, and you'll learn that cycling the wrong things, at the wrong time, can have detrimental effects on your DPS. Even continuously cycling something as seemingly innocuous as 'FireAllWeapons' can wreak havoc on your DPS. Or 'DistrubuteShields'. And THAT is why these people are going 17x faster than you! I don't profess to know the intricacies of it all yet, but it's all about disrupting/resetting cycles at the wrong time.
Essentially, if you were so inclined, you could say cycling is broken, in that the game allows you to cycle things that severely disrupt your firing sequence, when activated at the wrong moment. Most casual players never even realize this. I myself, for the longest time, was blissfully unaware of these matters too.
Cycling takes coordination. I have none, lol; I can barely get 650 points from the Omega mini-game.
And same goes the either way. You could ask yourself why anyone would play A GAME at its best performace? See:rolleyes:
But anyway, ppl sometimes devote their best performace/energy to RL and play games to relax. This is, or at least was as far as this game concerns, the very core concept of a game. A game is ment to entertain you. Its not a work, a contest or anything serious. And even if you want a challange, some ppl may enjoy something different in a game then you. Not everyone likes the same thing. But I am wasting my breath:(. It seems for alot of ppl here on forums these concepts are too difficult to grasp.
Yeah.
Noticed also another trend. Its quite disgusting, really. They "steal" ppl from PublicSTF channel, by parsing them, even without those ppl been aware, and then posting said parse results on their boards or whatever have in there. Thats why Cryptic should implement an option to allow your damage to be seen or not, thus read or not, by a combat log reader. It seems the parsers have become a mean of griefing and trolling players. It should be at every player's decision the ability to affiliate himself/herself to a group. Especially if someone finds that group one of the most wretched lot you can find in a game.
So I make a plea to the Devs to allow an option, similar to the one with the builds in gateway, so every player would have the option to allow other players to see his/her's damage, thus to be parsed or not, since now the parsers have become griefing and trolling instruments.
Swift retribution is exacted upon those who dared to step above their peers, and as a result all players now deal significantly reduced damage. However, all is still not well in the land. It is reported that our clever foes have exhibited Borg-like qualities, adapting to this new situation and discovering alternative methods to yet again rise up. Some of their number are still managing over 10,000 dps and a 10x gap exists between the high and the low. Once more we shall have to smite them, and what simpler method than implementing a cap on all damage inflicted? It seems this is our only recourse after all..
All player damage is now capped, thou shalt not perform better than thou weakest. And thus it was that fights suddenly became a game of survival. Players no longer care about damage, as all can perform equally in that regard. Defense is king! Those who survive are those who excel! But wait, we can't have that! Equality is our goal, and this is not equal. And so it was that all players who survive longer than five minutes in a fight shall have coffee spilled on their warp core by a bored chief engineer, resulting in a warp core overload. Surely this is equal? Yet.. no, curse those clever pilots.. now they're maneuvering their ships right next to crowds of enemies prior to exploding, and thus displaying superior piloting skill! Argh! We can't have that!
Ah! I see the problem now. It's those cursed weapons. If neither friend nor foe possesses offensive power, then surely no player can display talent! With a wave of thy hand, weapons are gone. And thus it was that all was.. argh, wait.. what's this?! His ship is rarer than mine, that ship looks cooler, my faction never gets anything new! The complaints, they never end! Curse you, curse you all!
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming..
Hmmmmm.... the top DPS ships aren't using a2b because of the nukara traits and [AMP] mods, plus you don't really need it to get enough tac abilities if you have a decent ship.
A2B builds are popular because they can make crappy cruisers viable. Also, it's cheap. Run some doff missions and you'll be able to do A2B. Compare that to buying Zemok on the exchange.
As for cannons, there are people getting into the 50K range with them, which is waaaaaaaay more than enough to beat pve content in this game. I'm still running cannons on my main because they're fun. Yeah, it'd be nice if the overcapping mechanic were changed, but then people would complain that cannons are OP and beams suck.
ISA is an Advanced STF with a 15 minute optional where the counter does not start until after the initial engagement completes.
So with it being an Advanced STF, the expectation is set that only Advanced Players could complete it. Adding in the optional, the expectation is set that only the most Advanced of the Advanced Players...the Elite...would be able to complete that.
What are the actual DPS requirements for a group to be able to complete that optional just before the 15 minute mark, eh? Cause that would be the "goal line" for the Advanced of the Advanced...the Elite...yeah?
What's the actual potential DPS for players?
How could one possibly say that it's working?
That being said though, it being an Advanced STF would mean that the non-Advanced Players could only dream of doing it until they improved. And completing that 15 minute option, they would have had to progress to being Advanced amongst the Advanced...Elite.
The one where certain folks think it's perfectly fine for a game to have content requirements that can be exceeded to the ludicrous degree they can be in this game?
The one where certain folks don't realize that fixing that first issue isn't going to make them any better, and they'll still be stuck with their fragile egos drowning in envy?
Cause both are pretty damn pathetic, imho.
Generally it's not worth it, cause it's bad enough hearing the whining from one side without hearing it from both...but since it's already happening in the thread anyway...
Let's see if I understand you right here...... you want to peg back everybody down to your level of skill? I only say everybody because this is what you have expressed to the entire community via a post such as this....
I can full well respect that you enjoy a certain type of play style but that is only a small part of your post. You want everyone to do as you do.... instead of looking at yourself, your build and therefore your effectiveness you've thrown your hands in the air and started blaming everyone else. Come on, mate, this post is simply a ridiculous cry baby post. Just because you don't want to, or can't, get better at this game, please don't encourage others to throw in the towel like you have.
So yes, frustrated rant it was, but all I read into it is a frustration at your own skill shortcomings which a community such as the DPS community can help you improve on.
There's a reason PESTF is dying but the DPS channels are thriving. The content changed so that you could actually fail missions, and people who don't want or don't know how to be a good team member actually affect other people's gameplay. Once you get into one of those channels, though, the talk is all about DPS and people get carried away.
I play for fun I don't care about maxing out my build, I do work on it when I can but this is just a GAME, and I play it as such. Spending every minute trying to get one more point of damage sounds like a job to me. I come in here to relax and have fun.
I don't avoid the DPSers myself but if they start shouting and putting down players they get ignored by me. Maybe the game needs a channel called just for fun or something, where people can team up for private matches and avoid a lot of headaches caused by people who don't know that not everybody WANTS to do 50K DPS.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
Also, those that you are talking about are the elite of the elite. A tiny fraction of the population, heck.. I want to say the 50k channel only has a couple hundred people in it. Is it truly surprising then that we utterly wreck something meant for a player that's merely advanced? HSE, one of the only elite space runs out (god only knows why) is actually a bit of a challenge. I've failed mandatory timers there, even with dps channel groups. Korfez is hardly an advanced (let alone elite), it's stupidly easy aside from the occasional one shot attack out of nowhere.
I don't know if you've ever played any other MMO's.. but to make an old school WoW analogy, you're basically complaining because while you were playing your rogue in a dungeon (rocking the cloth armor, daggers on backwards, no poison, with your talent points evenly split between three specs, with half your skills not on your bar, spending half your time attacking in front of the mob and the other half hurling thrown weapons at him while role-playing a ninja) a heroic 25 raider dropped in and beat you on recount. Because of this, heroic 25 shouldn't exist, his class needs to be nerfed, he should only be able to equip half his gear, and his weapon enchantment needs to be entirely removed from the game. Yeah, that about sums it up. Sounds totally reasonable.