The one or two people that claim they don't notice any problems aren't being observant of others outside of them. They are ignoring or denying something that is objectively observable unless they sit afk in an empty zone somewhere with no interaction with anything else in the game.
Denying the fact is the worst case of ignorance. It is happening. Even cryptic acknowledges it. The problem is it isn't being resolved time after time, even though cryptic thinks they have fixed it. Saying it isn't happening is dishonest and willfully trolling or ignorant.
that or the problem is less severe than you think.
Yes, I've been having issues myself, but not very bad ones... I don't have constant rubber banding, and rarely DC... I have however noticed that when I do DC I'm one of several to DC at the same time.
Run about an average of 10 to 15 STFs a day and so far the only bug I've encountered is the loadout one which has a simple solution if you remember which boffs you had and where...
Nice try. The loadout bug can affect more then just simple boff station slotting. It's a toss-up as to whether simply reslotting them will automatically put your tray powers back to where they originally were. Before I logged off an alt, I was playing Musical Chairs with their abilities just by clicking the same loadout every 30 seconds. If I could have sped the process up, it would've looked like a slot machine. In the end, I had to reassign most of the powers to the tray. This being after trying the accepted workaround of 1) Slot one BOFF and 2) Click the saved loadout. And the entire U-screen becomes inaccessible if you happened to get attacked while doing that until the battle cooldown procs. Additionally, gear can end up slotted in slots where none of that gear should be. It's great when your ship can't move due to the Impulse Drive being used as one of your Beam Arrays and then you get to wait for 30 seconds after slotting it where it was supposed to be in the first place...and that's if you weren't attacked by a sphere or Tholian ship. Still, the fact that you're in Europe along with me not having issues could add another useful variable to this? Are Southern European players not having this issue at all? Additionally, if you're not having a problem and are being routed through Cogentco, is the problem really with them then? Or Routing at all?
And regarding your first paragraph well to be honest you made me laugh,I don't know what meds you on or if you should be off them but I love the way you make yourself look (in your own deluded mind) like the saviour of all that is holy and pure and that thanks to your extensive sicological training you "taught" me a lesson and sent me back home weeping....
Heh. Who says I was trying to be a savior? Though my giving you a little taste of the same trolling you've been giving to others in this and other threads might not have been as creative as your posting of meme's or Youtube vid snippets, I at least tried to give you the opportunity to further the conversation...which you've repeatedly rejected so far in favor of posturing how much more of a "thinker" you are than the "sheep". Who's been trying to make themselves look like they're above the rest of us again?
Honestly I didn't know people as deluded as you still existed...but hey if you're sick I'll play along and maybe you will get better and come and join us in the real world,so here is me trying to help:
"Me plasmanugget has seen the error of my troll related ways,I should only follow example of synfoola which is clearly better and smarter person than me.
I promise I will only post bad things about Cryptic and the current state of its game,I will only and always place the blame on them since it can never be my computer or net provider."
Oh, by all means, keep doing what you love to do regardless of what I supposedly think. I also agree (to a point) with those who say that there's not much Cryptic can do in the short-term if this is a Cogentco thing. SWTOR had (still has?) an issue with their horrible updater that chased myself and more than a few of my guildies away. Guild is disbanded now. But your "All MMO's Have Bugs" blanket excuse is severely lacking when weighed against how long these bugs/issues have collectively been going on and what this type of thing has meant for other MMO developers with a lot more money involved. Speaking of which...
Is that good enough? If you need anything else just let me know,have a nice day
Actually, yes. Can you explain to us why my answer to your "Name one MMO without bugs" post wasn't worth responding to? I've asked you several times already.
that or the problem is less severe than you think.
Yes, I've been having issues myself, but not very bad ones... I don't have constant rubber banding, and rarely DC...
You, at least, are a step well above the folks that deny any problem exists. The problem is severe. If you are not rubber banding like hell and DCing and SNRing nonstop every time, you are lucky. It is happening to large swaths of the entire server and the server is dumping people en masse. That's not a minor issue. There are threads where cryptic is saying they are looking into several aspects of the server issues, including a large enough number of players that literally can't even log in right now. Thank goodness that one hasn't hit me, but it's big enough that cryptic have addressed it.
But... that's all the player's fault and they should talk to their ISP, according to the fact-deniers. You aren't among them, have no fear.
Rodent, if the problem is universal and has to do with Cryptic's practices, there shouldn't be any exceptions. Going back to our traffic analogy, if a road is completely broken, then nobody's getting past it at the speed limit, no matter what they're driving. If the freeway has been clogged by a massive accident, everyone is slowing down; there's no special privilege permitting anyone to bypass the gridlock. And if the issues some folks are experiencing were due only to Cryptic, as has been repeatedly claimed in this very thread, we would all be having the issues.
The fact that some players aren't having those problems indicates that the source is quite possibly not at Cryptic's end, and insisting that it absolutely is means no one will be looking for the real source. There's more to an Internet connection than your end and their end, you know; the famed "series of tubes" comment was fairly silly, but can be taken as an analogy for network connections. And a plug can happen anywhere in the pipe, not just at the intake and the outflow. (Google "London fatberg" for an example.)
Rodent, if the problem is universal and has to do with Cryptic's practices, there shouldn't be any exceptions. Going back to our traffic analogy, if a road is completely broken, then nobody's getting past it at the speed limit, no matter what they're driving. If the freeway has been clogged by a massive accident, everyone is slowing down; there's no special privilege permitting anyone to bypass the gridlock. And if the issues some folks are experiencing were due only to Cryptic, as has been repeatedly claimed in this very thread, we would all be having the issues.
The fact that some players aren't having those problems indicates that the source is quite possibly not at Cryptic's end, and insisting that it absolutely is means no one will be looking for the real source. There's more to an Internet connection than your end and their end, you know; the famed "series of tubes" comment was fairly silly, but can be taken as an analogy for network connections. And a plug can happen anywhere in the pipe, not just at the intake and the outflow. (Google "London fatberg" for an example.)
also... minor slowdowns at multiple stages of the connection can cause a DC even if none of the slowdowns is large enough to caus eit on it's own.
Yeah I can say this is not a Cryptic problem and it is more along the lines of net neutrality issue where some isps like to use what they call throttling and other devious issues. It roughly boils down to an entity creating a situation with your service where you go and pay a higher amount per month to get better quality and that is where net neutrality comes in so they can't use this tactic as a method of gaining profits. One of the biggest names out there that has done this kind of activity is comcast.
Rodent, if the problem is universal and has to do with Cryptic's practices, there shouldn't be any exceptions. Going back to our traffic analogy, if a road is completely broken, then nobody's getting past it at the speed limit, no matter what they're driving. If the freeway has been clogged by a massive accident, everyone is slowing down; there's no special privilege permitting anyone to bypass the gridlock. And if the issues some folks are experiencing were due only to Cryptic, as has been repeatedly claimed in this very thread, we would all be having the issues.
The fact that some players aren't having those problems indicates that the source is quite possibly not at Cryptic's end, and insisting that it absolutely is means no one will be looking for the real source. There's more to an Internet connection than your end and their end, you know; the famed "series of tubes" comment was fairly silly, but can be taken as an analogy for network connections. And a plug can happen anywhere in the pipe, not just at the intake and the outflow. (Google "London fatberg" for an example.)
right you sir have NO CLUE about computers n how connectiosn work
yeah not every1 has issues....
im plain with a couple of ppl on teamspeak everyoen has issues but not at the same time even if we r in an instance together
1 is lagging 3 not
next day 2 lagging rubberbanding 1 is not... it differs
when we paly soemth else togeeterh NO ONE got problems
its the cryptic servers 4 SURE
even if mr white knight says no
also soemtiems im palyn just fuien and i see 12 ppl logging off from my F list... few sec l8er hey all log on same time... hawww STRANGE
I concur. It doesn't work the way he describes. It never has.
If by "It doesn't work that way" you mean it does, in fact, absolutely and objectively DOES work that way, you would be right.
Here is a fact: You seem to have connection problems.
Here is another fact: I DON'T have connection problems.
Here is your hypothesis: The problem is caused by Cryptic's servers.
Here is what we would expect from that hypothesis: All players would be affected to some degree, not simply a vocal minority.
Here is what we actually observe: Only a vocal minority is complaining about the issue.
Here is what you conjecture: The vocal minority is speaking for a large mass of people, thus proving the hypothesis true.
Here is what I conjecture: The vocal minority is, in fact, simply a vocal minority, and their sense that "everyone" or "a majority" of players is having the same problem is, in fact, a distorted perception brought on by confirmation bias in the interpretation and self selection bias in the sample.
Here is what we can conclude, with certainty: About the situation, nothing. There simply isn't good enough data to localize the problem. About the certainty that it's Cryptic's servers that are the cause of the wide spread problems? Unfounded certainty on at least two levels - we don't even know widespread problems exist, and even if they did, we have nowhere near enough data to conclude that it is Cryptic's fault.
Here is what we can predict: You will snort in derision at this post and deride it as "white-knighting" or the like.
Here is what is true: In the absence of data, the rational mind suspends judgement unless there is a pressing need to act that outweighs the risk of reaching an incorrect conclusion. No such need exists here, so any rush to judgement in the absence of data is irrational.
If by "It doesn't work that way" you mean it does, in fact, absolutely and objectively DOES work that way, you would be right.
Here is a fact: You seem to have connection problems.
Here is another fact: I DON'T have connection problems.
Here is your hypothesis: The problem is caused by Cryptic's servers.
Here is what we would expect from that hypothesis: All players would be affected to some degree, not simply a vocal minority.
Annnnnd that's where you're wrong. You're using logic, rather than understanding. You're trying to apply a logical if-then-else rule, when anybody in the industry knows better about causality of networking.
Your logic fails. That's not a slight on YOU. Just the logic you're using does NOT hold up. Same logic Johnsills used. Just because YOU don't have a problem, it's my fault? Patently false and demonstrably so.
As for the "vocal minority" comment? Hah. Good one. More like you, the one pretending there is no problem, is the minority. You're lucky. Enjoy it. Don't go pretending bad things aren't happening to others because YOU are fine. I hate to use the old falacy, but it sort of fits: "I have a sandwich so YOU can't be starving" -- that's your comment, in a nutshell.
I personally have never had any connection or lag issues with this game.
The people I play this game with do seem to experience connection issues a lot more frequently since the start of the Anniversary event. Hopefully Cryptic gets to the bottom of these issues before the people I play this game with give up and go back to World of Tanks.
Rabid fanboy?
Hardly,this game sucks in a lot of ways and it does on so many levels it looks like one of those chess boards from the big bang theory,but because im having fun at the moment i dont really mind all the tedious things i hate about the game,i just make my peace with them and if they dont bother me i dont bother them,as simple as that.
Day i stop having fun is the day i will be leaving and you wont hear a peep out of me,no post,no threads nothing,ill be like Copperfield and dissapear.
And please dont confuse being a "fanboy" with being "honest",if you cant take the heat...i mean the honesty maybe its time you let someone else cook.
Excuse me, was I talking about you? Did I quoted you or sth.??
Let's see here - join date December 2014, post count 140-ish......take note, I don't discriminate based on forum join dates or forum post counts, you could very well be playing the game since beta without ever comming here. I'm poinitng this out because that means you're still very far from the category of rabid fanboys even if you were attempting to be one. That title comes after many years of thoulsands upon thoulsands of posts of "everything is awesome" whenever anyone has any complaint, regardless if said complaint is justified or not, and arrogantly trying to discredit anyone and everyone that doesn't completely share your worldview.
Therefore, with all due respect - you still have a looong road, getting from there to here.....:D
Though it's pretty funny, if not telling, that you basically called yourself out here.
Annnnnd that's where you're wrong. You're using logic, rather than understanding. You're trying to apply a logical if-then-else rule, when anybody in the industry knows better about causality of networking.
Your logic fails. That's not a slight on YOU. Just the logic you're using does NOT hold up. Same logic Johnsills used. Just because YOU don't have a problem, it's my fault? Patently false and demonstrably so.
As for the "vocal minority" comment? Hah. Good one. More like you, the one pretending there is no problem, is the minority. You're lucky. Enjoy it. Don't go pretending bad things aren't happening to others because YOU are fine. I hate to use the old falacy, but it sort of fits: "I have a sandwich so YOU can't be starving" -- that's your comment, in a nutshell.
Let's start at the end - I'm not saying "no problems exist because I'm not having problems", I'm saying "your hypothesis about the cause of the problem doesn't seem likely, because we don't seem to be observing the predicted outcome (widespread problems) of that cause". The reason I don't think we have a widespread problem is because I see only the same small subset of names complaining about this issue over and over again. I contrast this with things like unexpected server outages, or even the lag spikes that WERE Cryptic's fault, and how the number of unique posters on the subject doesn't seem to match up. This leads me to conclude that, at best, the data doesn't support your claims, and that on balance, if I HAD to make a judgement, the data seems to be running against you.
Your claim that logic fails to apply to this situation is... I don't even know. I'm pretty sure you don't even understand how I'm applying it, because you mistakenly believe me saying "It doesn't seem to be Cryptic's fault" as saying "Thus it must be YOUR fault". The fact is, what I'm saying is that it is impossible to be certain about where the fault lies on the basis of the "data" we have so far, but that on balance, it doesn't seem likely that it supports your position.
Oh, and your appeal to the authority of "everyone in the industry knows about the causality of networking"? And how somehow that means that you can't use logic, but instead some mystical "understanding" when dealing with them? I have news for you - networks aren't mysterious realms of black magic and unknowable horrors. It's not like it's impossible to localize problems given enough data - the issue is that some problems, particularly intermittent ones like this one, are damnably hard to pin down sometimes, no matter how certain some users are that "It HAS to be their servers".
Ultimately, it's actually impossible for me to be wrong. Even if it IS Cryptic's fault, that doesn't mean I'm wrong that the data you have comes anywhere near to proving it, it just means you guessed right, based on your own irrational prejudices and flawed perceptions.
And well i just quoted you because all be fair your post was like right after mine so hence me taking your post as directed to me.
Nah, just talking in general. If I wanted to aim that at you I'd just quote you, that's what I usually do. Anyway - fair enough, I can see how it might have seemed that way to you since my reply came right after yours.
Been having major lag issues with the game. Crystaline enity is basically unplayable. It almost always occurs within spawns or heavy fire. Then im basically reduced to a slideshow and promptly die. The power tray icons also don't respond when you hit them, and theres a noticeable delay. These are pretty crucial elements of an MMO.. As in things we depend on to play.
Its been like this for almost 2 weeks.. Been playing since the first year anniversary and never encountered problems like this.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
*Our quote pyramids...they blot out the sun!!!* :O
I turn 40 this year and my two best friends are brothers who were [That Agency That Shall Not Be Named Over Here] computer egg-heads so I always had access to the newest game/thing through them. Especially when they went to college. Gawd, having T1 access whenever I visited their dorms while the rest of us were stuck with dial-up, if we were lucky, was fantastic. lol First dedicated MMO was SWG. Just couldn't get into Ultima & Everquest. Only S&S MMO I lasted in was Age of Conan due to the music, combat, and more adult setting despite Funcom being...well, Funcom.
While I don't agree with you on everything I now have a better understanding of where you are coming from. And, considering where you're living all that's left to ask is:
Can you send some Tapas chefs/cooks up here to Germany? Seven years, and I've found ONE good restaurant and it's the size of a walk-in closet.
Only S&S MMO I lasted in was Age of Conan due to the music, combat, and more adult setting despite Funcom being...well, Funcom.
I just recently returned to Age of Conan, for many of the reasons you state. The music in that game has to be the best, most fitting music ever done for an MMO. And the combat is so very enjoyable. Finally, the ability to give your character the look you envision, is by far the best I have ever experienced!
I played World of youknowwhat for a long time before Age of Conan came out, but after experiencing Hyboria, I was pretty much ruined for any other S&S MMO.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
I turn 40 this year and my two best friends are brothers who were [That Agency That Shall Not Be Named Over Here] computer egg-heads so I always had access to the newest game/thing through them. Especially when they went to college. Gawd, having T1 access whenever I visited their dorms while the rest of us were stuck with dial-up, if we were lucky, was fantastic. lol First dedicated MMO was SWG. Just couldn't get into Ultima & Everquest. Only S&S MMO I lasted in was Age of Conan due to the music, combat, and more adult setting despite Funcom being...well, Funcom.
While I don't agree with you on everything I now have a better understanding of where you are coming from. And, considering where you're living all that's left to ask is:
Can you send some Tapas chefs/cooks up here to Germany? Seven years, and I've found ONE good restaurant and it's the size of a walk-in closet.
The amount of wasted discourse is this thread is genuinely scary. It wasn't just one individuals fault for this, it was all of us. For some their ignorant comments about no issues inflamed those who are having those issues. Going into a keyboard challenge with an ignorant keyboard warrior who enjoys getting raging responses is just playing into their hands. Any serious response is usually ignored by these sorts of people as was my post earlier with had supporting data on this is. However, this post here confirms why this individual is not having a problem - he is in Europe using an EU pipe into the system and that is not having connection issues anywhere near the level those who are using the US pipe are.
It is funny that my post in the Connection Issues section (which I posted in this thread) has received a number of views but no responses from anyone yet... they can't poke at my hardware, connection data which clearly shows an issue on the US side or that I haven't followed Cryptics procedure for posting there. The link posted in this thread was conveniently ignored by those who aren't having any issues as well... why would they pay attention to it? It had facts and why ruin a good keyboard warrior provoking session with facts... where's the fun in that right?
Someone mentioned Net Neutrality earlier which is something that I have only recently became aware of as an issue. Living in Australia we don't really have these sorts of issues or proposals from corporations that would make a balanced environment unbalanced in such a blatant way. This is how I became aware of the issue in US:
I do know that after the above clip was shown on TV the FCC website crashed from people trying to voice their concern. If what is happening to cause STO connection issues right now, the result of Comcast throttling or something similar, then I genuinely fear what is happening in the US right now. I mean, haven't you guys learned your lesson yet from too much de-regulation or privatisation? Every time this has happened in the past 20 years the regular Joe has ended up paying more or having their freedoms significantly reduced due to corporate greed. Enron is a prime example of this.... how quickly we all forget.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand - if you have been having connection issues please record your experiences here and then open a thread in the Connection Issues section. And let's from now on not get so easily sucked in by..... (well I won't call them trolls but man, they are almost at that level) individuals who claim they aren't having issues because that is correct for them and for many EU players.
plasmanugget why do you keep posting on this thread? You have said repeatedly you have no lag or rubberbanding issues, I started this thread to get replies about in game issues with lag and rubberbanding and for some reason you think it is entertaining to keep going off topic! I didn't start this thread to be entertained, I love this game and want to continue playing it but with the lag it is not fun atm.. And it is not fun for my fleet mates and all of my friends that are experiencing the same issues. I pray that you find some other form of entertainment and please leave this thread to the people that are having game issue's!
Here is what I conjecture: The vocal minority is, in fact, simply a vocal minority, and their sense that "everyone" or "a majority" of players is having the same problem is, in fact, a distorted perception brought on by confirmation bias in the interpretation and self selection bias in the sample.
Here is what we can conclude, with certainty: About the situation, nothing. There simply isn't good enough data to localize the problem. About the certainty that it's Cryptic's servers that are the cause of the wide spread problems? Unfounded certainty on at least two levels - we don't even know widespread problems exist, and even if they did, we have nowhere near enough data to conclude that it is Cryptic's fault.
Here is what we can predict: You will snort in derision at this post and deride it as "white-knighting" or the like.
Here is what is true: In the absence of data, the rational mind suspends judgement unless there is a pressing need to act that outweighs the risk of reaching an incorrect conclusion. No such need exists here, so any rush to judgement in the absence of data is irrational.
I have to argue these statements.
Regarding, trying to dismiss it as just a "vocal minority". Have you looked at the PC, Network and Troubleshooting section of the forum recently? You are correct that it doesn't represent the majority of users, however it's not an insignificant amount of complaints.
Regarding there not being enough data. This is entirely Cryptic/PWE's fault. Look through some of those threads in the Troubleshooting section. You won't find ANY response from a Cryptic/PWE employee. The closest you might get is a reply from askray (this is not a slight towards askray) requesting you provide more info. That's a valid request to be sure, but you provide that info and that's the last you hear on the subject. "Use the ticket system" some say. You don't get any more response from that either. That's a problem. Compare this to say the Galactic Civilization III forums. Rough count shows about 80% of the troubleshooting threads have at least one response from a Stardock employee. Troubleshooting threads need at least some official response, even if it's just to say "We will look into it". Even if the thread starter gets some good advice from the community (they often don't though), it means a lot more to a player if it comes from somebody official. If you go far enough back, you'll see a thread I started regarding rubberbanding. It turned out to be the trait issue from the Breen Carrier. Of course, I had to figure that out myself and there was never any acknowledgement that it was in fact a bug. The thread was either never seen or just ignored, just like every other thread in that section.
Regarding the pressing need to act. You are correct that this issue may not affect the majority of the players. Personally after disabling the trait, I've had minimal lag/rubberbanding issues. However looking at the Troubleshooting section shows this isn't a one or two user issue. It shouldn't take a major outage to get some sort of official response.
Regarding the "issue" itself, here's my observations. I'm a bit "luckier" than most as I have 3 people in my house that play at the same time. This will come in handy as I will explain below.
Latency/response times are substantially worse in heavily populated areas such as ESD. In fact, in the last 2 weeks, ESD is the only place I've gotten any rubberbanding. If it was a client side connection issue, your in game location would make a minimal amount of difference. While STO requires a stable connection, it doesn't actually use that much bandwidth. I can play tethered off my cell phone without issue. Being in a populated area does not generate that much more traffic on your connection. If it was an issue with the user connection, they should be having issues everywhere. This points towards either capacity issues with PWE's infrastructure or QoS/throttling somewhere along the lines.
Latency/response times are worse during "peak hours". Yes, latency is going to be higher during peak hours. That's a fact of life. However, this applies to everything on the internet. As frequently brought up in these threads, the people that are experiencing severe issues are having zero issues accessing anything else on the internet. If it was simply a matter of too much traffic in their part of the world, this would be affecting other things.
Now, here's where the having 3 people in the same house playing comes in handy. I'm playing Borg Disconnected. No lag. Roommate 1 is playing a storyline mission, no lag. Roommate 2 is on ESD and is rubberbanding all over the place. If it was our connection, we would all be rubberbanding. All three computers are plugged into the same gigabit switch. CPU usage on the switch is 9%, CPU usage on the router is 2%. It's not a utilization issue.
While connectivity issues are not under PWE's control, it is their responsibility to ensure their customers are being provided adequate service. As somebody who's spent an absurd amount of time on the phone with the business tier support for Level 3, AT&T, Verizon, Cox, Telepacific, etc, I know exactly what's involved in that. I've been on 8 hour conference calls with multiple ISP's narrowing down issues. It might take you a while to get the ISP to do something, but they will eventually do something.
Lastly, I will also say some of the communities response to these complaints are just as harmful as the lack of official response. Many times as soon as somebody complains about lag, people start telling them it's their connection, get a better one despite having zero evidence to back that. Is it sometimes the user connection? Sure. But how about waiting until there's evidence of that before dismissing a user's issue? Just because you aren't having an issue doesn't make it the other users problem. Regardless who's fault it is, the user is having an issue. When you post on the forums asking for assistance and get greeted with "it's your fault because I said so", that doesn't exactly promote a helpful environment. I'll also say this combined with the lack of response from PWE/Cryptic personally makes me only post an issue as an absolute last straw.
No more peculiar than how the most rabid haters become insulting and dismissive to anyone that doesn't jump on the "Blame everything on Cryptic" bandwagon. They are two sides of the same coin. :rolleyes:
While that's true that there are always two sides of the coin around here, in this particular case fanbois have nothing to do here. People (suposedly) have genuine issues, I know that I'm experiencing terrible UI lag and are comming here saying that - some less eloquent than others, expecting Cryptic to fix that.
If people think that the devs are so soft that they need forum warrior protection about every single possible complaint, then quite honestly - people need to grow a spine. I'm sure the devs are more than capable of comming here and saying "Sorry folks, we checked and it's not on our side. You're asking us to fix sth. that is not up to us.", but instead they have taken a note of the problem, already tried to fix it in the last patch (unsuccesfully) and even a dev in game admitted that they're aware and looking into it. And then you have the fanbois comming here after all of that, claiming that they know where the problem lies and that it couldn't be Cryptic, because *gasp* deities don't make mistakes. :rolleyes:
It basically boils down to:
Complainer 1: Cryptic, I'm having severe lag! When are you going to fix this?
Fanboy 1: Well, I'm not experiencing any lag so you must be lying you entitled whiners!
And you don't need to be any Sherlock to figure out where that one is going. Basically, the complainer has a complaint, it's up to the company to respond wheather they'll be fixing it or it's not in their court. If someone steps over the line, we have mods and CMs to take care of that.
The fanbois have no real place or reason to be here in this particular case, other than poking the wasps' nest and adding salt on the wound of players that are experiencing problems and have grievances, or just genuine trolling.
And we all know that the trolls' place is not here, but rather back under the bridge.
The amount of wasted discourse is this thread is genuinely scary. It wasn't just one individuals fault for this, it was all of us. For some their ignorant comments about no issues inflamed those who are having those issues. Going into a keyboard challenge with an ignorant keyboard warrior who enjoys getting raging responses is just playing into their hands. Any serious response is usually ignored by these sorts of people as was my post earlier with had supporting data on this is. However, this post here confirms why this individual is not having a problem - he is in Europe using an EU pipe into the system and that is not having connection issues anywhere near the level those who are using the US pipe are.
It is funny that my post in the Connection Issues section (which I posted in this thread) has received a number of views but no responses from anyone yet... they can't poke at my hardware, connection data which clearly shows an issue on the US side or that I haven't followed Cryptics procedure for posting there. The link posted in this thread was conveniently ignored by those who aren't having any issues as well... why would they pay attention to it? It had facts and why ruin a good keyboard warrior provoking session with facts... where's the fun in that right?
Someone mentioned Net Neutrality earlier which is something that I have only recently became aware of as an issue. Living in Australia we don't really have these sorts of issues or proposals from corporations that would make a balanced environment unbalanced in such a blatant way. This is how I became aware of the issue in US:
I do know that after the above clip was shown on TV the FCC website crashed from people trying to voice their concern. If what is happening to cause STO connection issues right now, the result of Comcast throttling or something similar, then I genuinely fear what is happening in the US right now. I mean, haven't you guys learned your lesson yet from too much de-regulation or privatisation? Every time this has happened in the past 20 years the regular Joe has ended up paying more or having their freedoms significantly reduced due to corporate greed. Enron is a prime example of this.... how quickly we all forget.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand - if you have been having connection issues please record your experiences here and then open a thread in the Connection Issues section. And let's from now on not get so easily sucked in by..... (well I won't call them trolls but man, they are almost at that level) individuals who claim they aren't having issues because that is correct for them and for many EU players.
Well the keyboards are certainly getting a workout if nothing else. What ever happened to 'agree to disagree' hmm?
I'm sure we can assume those who need to know the problem exists do in fact know, and since it's throwing a major wrench into their machine they are doing what they can do get it sorted out, so they can turn their attention back to the every increasing workload.
All you can do is have some patience and wait until it is resolved. Picking on fellow players may pass the time while you wait, but it is pointless. Just chill, think of the poor keyboards.
Doesn't apply when people adamantly deny anything is wrong and say it's all your fault when it is not. Then claim it logically can not be anything but your fault. Agree to disagree is not applicable to all situations. Iran denies the holacaust.... Do you agree to disagree? No. There's just-plain-wrong sometimes. Objectively wrong.
And as for Cryptic? Their track record on fixing game-breaking issues in respectable time frames is almost nil. Trusting that they'll get it done? Has NEVER worked. Period.
If people think that the devs are so soft that they need forum warrior protection about every single possible complaint, then quite honestly - people need to grow a spine.
It basically boils down to:
Complainer 1: Cryptic, I'm having severe lag! When are you going to fix this?
Fanboy 1: Well, I'm not experiencing any lag so you must be lying you entitled whiners!
Very true...
I think the white knights are either:
1- People who have nothing else to do or not even play the game but to throll others into a twisted reality.
2- Cryptic employees on different accounts "pretending" to be playerbase and herd true public opinion.
I cannot comprehend any logical or intelligent life at the other end of many of the "real" issues" here that think STO is true Nirvana at the current state.
Granted we ALL think different yet if we ALL truly play the SAME game we would encounter the "same" issues and same "reality" unless it was an alternate reality being conjectured by an schizophrenic realm
Comments
Boy, it seems that way from here.
Yes, I've been having issues myself, but not very bad ones... I don't have constant rubber banding, and rarely DC... I have however noticed that when I do DC I'm one of several to DC at the same time.
My character Tsin'xing
Nice try. The loadout bug can affect more then just simple boff station slotting. It's a toss-up as to whether simply reslotting them will automatically put your tray powers back to where they originally were. Before I logged off an alt, I was playing Musical Chairs with their abilities just by clicking the same loadout every 30 seconds. If I could have sped the process up, it would've looked like a slot machine. In the end, I had to reassign most of the powers to the tray. This being after trying the accepted workaround of 1) Slot one BOFF and 2) Click the saved loadout. And the entire U-screen becomes inaccessible if you happened to get attacked while doing that until the battle cooldown procs. Additionally, gear can end up slotted in slots where none of that gear should be. It's great when your ship can't move due to the Impulse Drive being used as one of your Beam Arrays and then you get to wait for 30 seconds after slotting it where it was supposed to be in the first place...and that's if you weren't attacked by a sphere or Tholian ship. Still, the fact that you're in Europe along with me not having issues could add another useful variable to this? Are Southern European players not having this issue at all? Additionally, if you're not having a problem and are being routed through Cogentco, is the problem really with them then? Or Routing at all?
Heh. Who says I was trying to be a savior? Though my giving you a little taste of the same trolling you've been giving to others in this and other threads might not have been as creative as your posting of meme's or Youtube vid snippets, I at least tried to give you the opportunity to further the conversation...which you've repeatedly rejected so far in favor of posturing how much more of a "thinker" you are than the "sheep". Who's been trying to make themselves look like they're above the rest of us again?
Oh, by all means, keep doing what you love to do regardless of what I supposedly think. I also agree (to a point) with those who say that there's not much Cryptic can do in the short-term if this is a Cogentco thing. SWTOR had (still has?) an issue with their horrible updater that chased myself and more than a few of my guildies away. Guild is disbanded now. But your "All MMO's Have Bugs" blanket excuse is severely lacking when weighed against how long these bugs/issues have collectively been going on and what this type of thing has meant for other MMO developers with a lot more money involved. Speaking of which...
Actually, yes. Can you explain to us why my answer to your "Name one MMO without bugs" post wasn't worth responding to? I've asked you several times already.
You, at least, are a step well above the folks that deny any problem exists. The problem is severe. If you are not rubber banding like hell and DCing and SNRing nonstop every time, you are lucky. It is happening to large swaths of the entire server and the server is dumping people en masse. That's not a minor issue. There are threads where cryptic is saying they are looking into several aspects of the server issues, including a large enough number of players that literally can't even log in right now. Thank goodness that one hasn't hit me, but it's big enough that cryptic have addressed it.
But... that's all the player's fault and they should talk to their ISP, according to the fact-deniers. You aren't among them, have no fear.
The fact that some players aren't having those problems indicates that the source is quite possibly not at Cryptic's end, and insisting that it absolutely is means no one will be looking for the real source. There's more to an Internet connection than your end and their end, you know; the famed "series of tubes" comment was fairly silly, but can be taken as an analogy for network connections. And a plug can happen anywhere in the pipe, not just at the intake and the outflow. (Google "London fatberg" for an example.)
My character Tsin'xing
right you sir have NO CLUE about computers n how connectiosn work
yeah not every1 has issues....
im plain with a couple of ppl on teamspeak everyoen has issues but not at the same time even if we r in an instance together
1 is lagging 3 not
next day 2 lagging rubberbanding 1 is not... it differs
when we paly soemth else togeeterh NO ONE got problems
its the cryptic servers 4 SURE
even if mr white knight says no
also soemtiems im palyn just fuien and i see 12 ppl logging off from my F list... few sec l8er hey all log on same time... hawww STRANGE
I concur. It doesn't work the way he describes. It never has.
If by "It doesn't work that way" you mean it does, in fact, absolutely and objectively DOES work that way, you would be right.
Here is a fact: You seem to have connection problems.
Here is another fact: I DON'T have connection problems.
Here is your hypothesis: The problem is caused by Cryptic's servers.
Here is what we would expect from that hypothesis: All players would be affected to some degree, not simply a vocal minority.
Here is what we actually observe: Only a vocal minority is complaining about the issue.
Here is what you conjecture: The vocal minority is speaking for a large mass of people, thus proving the hypothesis true.
Here is what I conjecture: The vocal minority is, in fact, simply a vocal minority, and their sense that "everyone" or "a majority" of players is having the same problem is, in fact, a distorted perception brought on by confirmation bias in the interpretation and self selection bias in the sample.
Here is what we can conclude, with certainty: About the situation, nothing. There simply isn't good enough data to localize the problem. About the certainty that it's Cryptic's servers that are the cause of the wide spread problems? Unfounded certainty on at least two levels - we don't even know widespread problems exist, and even if they did, we have nowhere near enough data to conclude that it is Cryptic's fault.
Here is what we can predict: You will snort in derision at this post and deride it as "white-knighting" or the like.
Here is what is true: In the absence of data, the rational mind suspends judgement unless there is a pressing need to act that outweighs the risk of reaching an incorrect conclusion. No such need exists here, so any rush to judgement in the absence of data is irrational.
Annnnnd that's where you're wrong. You're using logic, rather than understanding. You're trying to apply a logical if-then-else rule, when anybody in the industry knows better about causality of networking.
Your logic fails. That's not a slight on YOU. Just the logic you're using does NOT hold up. Same logic Johnsills used. Just because YOU don't have a problem, it's my fault? Patently false and demonstrably so.
As for the "vocal minority" comment? Hah. Good one. More like you, the one pretending there is no problem, is the minority. You're lucky. Enjoy it. Don't go pretending bad things aren't happening to others because YOU are fine. I hate to use the old falacy, but it sort of fits: "I have a sandwich so YOU can't be starving" -- that's your comment, in a nutshell.
The people I play this game with do seem to experience connection issues a lot more frequently since the start of the Anniversary event. Hopefully Cryptic gets to the bottom of these issues before the people I play this game with give up and go back to World of Tanks.
Free Tibet!
Excuse me, was I talking about you? Did I quoted you or sth.??
Let's see here - join date December 2014, post count 140-ish......take note, I don't discriminate based on forum join dates or forum post counts, you could very well be playing the game since beta without ever comming here. I'm poinitng this out because that means you're still very far from the category of rabid fanboys even if you were attempting to be one.
Therefore, with all due respect - you still have a looong road, getting from there to here.....:D
Though it's pretty funny, if not telling, that you basically called yourself out here.
Let's start at the end - I'm not saying "no problems exist because I'm not having problems", I'm saying "your hypothesis about the cause of the problem doesn't seem likely, because we don't seem to be observing the predicted outcome (widespread problems) of that cause". The reason I don't think we have a widespread problem is because I see only the same small subset of names complaining about this issue over and over again. I contrast this with things like unexpected server outages, or even the lag spikes that WERE Cryptic's fault, and how the number of unique posters on the subject doesn't seem to match up. This leads me to conclude that, at best, the data doesn't support your claims, and that on balance, if I HAD to make a judgement, the data seems to be running against you.
Your claim that logic fails to apply to this situation is... I don't even know. I'm pretty sure you don't even understand how I'm applying it, because you mistakenly believe me saying "It doesn't seem to be Cryptic's fault" as saying "Thus it must be YOUR fault". The fact is, what I'm saying is that it is impossible to be certain about where the fault lies on the basis of the "data" we have so far, but that on balance, it doesn't seem likely that it supports your position.
Oh, and your appeal to the authority of "everyone in the industry knows about the causality of networking"? And how somehow that means that you can't use logic, but instead some mystical "understanding" when dealing with them? I have news for you - networks aren't mysterious realms of black magic and unknowable horrors. It's not like it's impossible to localize problems given enough data - the issue is that some problems, particularly intermittent ones like this one, are damnably hard to pin down sometimes, no matter how certain some users are that "It HAS to be their servers".
Ultimately, it's actually impossible for me to be wrong. Even if it IS Cryptic's fault, that doesn't mean I'm wrong that the data you have comes anywhere near to proving it, it just means you guessed right, based on your own irrational prejudices and flawed perceptions.
Nah, just talking in general. If I wanted to aim that at you I'd just quote you, that's what I usually do. Anyway - fair enough, I can see how it might have seemed that way to you since my reply came right after yours.
Its been like this for almost 2 weeks..
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
I turn 40 this year and my two best friends are brothers who were [That Agency That Shall Not Be Named Over Here] computer egg-heads so I always had access to the newest game/thing through them. Especially when they went to college. Gawd, having T1 access whenever I visited their dorms while the rest of us were stuck with dial-up, if we were lucky, was fantastic. lol First dedicated MMO was SWG. Just couldn't get into Ultima & Everquest. Only S&S MMO I lasted in was Age of Conan due to the music, combat, and more adult setting despite Funcom being...well, Funcom.
While I don't agree with you on everything I now have a better understanding of where you are coming from. And, considering where you're living all that's left to ask is:
Can you send some Tapas chefs/cooks up here to Germany? Seven years, and I've found ONE good restaurant and it's the size of a walk-in closet.
I just recently returned to Age of Conan, for many of the reasons you state. The music in that game has to be the best, most fitting music ever done for an MMO. And the combat is so very enjoyable. Finally, the ability to give your character the look you envision, is by far the best I have ever experienced!
I played World of youknowwhat for a long time before Age of Conan came out, but after experiencing Hyboria, I was pretty much ruined for any other S&S MMO.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
The amount of wasted discourse is this thread is genuinely scary. It wasn't just one individuals fault for this, it was all of us. For some their ignorant comments about no issues inflamed those who are having those issues. Going into a keyboard challenge with an ignorant keyboard warrior who enjoys getting raging responses is just playing into their hands. Any serious response is usually ignored by these sorts of people as was my post earlier with had supporting data on this is. However, this post here confirms why this individual is not having a problem - he is in Europe using an EU pipe into the system and that is not having connection issues anywhere near the level those who are using the US pipe are.
It is funny that my post in the Connection Issues section (which I posted in this thread) has received a number of views but no responses from anyone yet... they can't poke at my hardware, connection data which clearly shows an issue on the US side or that I haven't followed Cryptics procedure for posting there. The link posted in this thread was conveniently ignored by those who aren't having any issues as well... why would they pay attention to it? It had facts and why ruin a good keyboard warrior provoking session with facts... where's the fun in that right?
Someone mentioned Net Neutrality earlier which is something that I have only recently became aware of as an issue. Living in Australia we don't really have these sorts of issues or proposals from corporations that would make a balanced environment unbalanced in such a blatant way. This is how I became aware of the issue in US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU
I do know that after the above clip was shown on TV the FCC website crashed from people trying to voice their concern. If what is happening to cause STO connection issues right now, the result of Comcast throttling or something similar, then I genuinely fear what is happening in the US right now. I mean, haven't you guys learned your lesson yet from too much de-regulation or privatisation? Every time this has happened in the past 20 years the regular Joe has ended up paying more or having their freedoms significantly reduced due to corporate greed. Enron is a prime example of this.... how quickly we all forget.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand - if you have been having connection issues please record your experiences here and then open a thread in the Connection Issues section. And let's from now on not get so easily sucked in by..... (well I won't call them trolls but man, they are almost at that level) individuals who claim they aren't having issues because that is correct for them and for many EU players.
Regards,
Snipey47a
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22376451#post22376451
I have to argue these statements.
Regarding, trying to dismiss it as just a "vocal minority". Have you looked at the PC, Network and Troubleshooting section of the forum recently? You are correct that it doesn't represent the majority of users, however it's not an insignificant amount of complaints.
Regarding there not being enough data. This is entirely Cryptic/PWE's fault. Look through some of those threads in the Troubleshooting section. You won't find ANY response from a Cryptic/PWE employee. The closest you might get is a reply from askray (this is not a slight towards askray) requesting you provide more info. That's a valid request to be sure, but you provide that info and that's the last you hear on the subject. "Use the ticket system" some say. You don't get any more response from that either. That's a problem. Compare this to say the Galactic Civilization III forums. Rough count shows about 80% of the troubleshooting threads have at least one response from a Stardock employee. Troubleshooting threads need at least some official response, even if it's just to say "We will look into it". Even if the thread starter gets some good advice from the community (they often don't though), it means a lot more to a player if it comes from somebody official. If you go far enough back, you'll see a thread I started regarding rubberbanding. It turned out to be the trait issue from the Breen Carrier. Of course, I had to figure that out myself and there was never any acknowledgement that it was in fact a bug. The thread was either never seen or just ignored, just like every other thread in that section.
Regarding the pressing need to act. You are correct that this issue may not affect the majority of the players. Personally after disabling the trait, I've had minimal lag/rubberbanding issues. However looking at the Troubleshooting section shows this isn't a one or two user issue. It shouldn't take a major outage to get some sort of official response.
Regarding the "issue" itself, here's my observations. I'm a bit "luckier" than most as I have 3 people in my house that play at the same time. This will come in handy as I will explain below.
Latency/response times are substantially worse in heavily populated areas such as ESD. In fact, in the last 2 weeks, ESD is the only place I've gotten any rubberbanding. If it was a client side connection issue, your in game location would make a minimal amount of difference. While STO requires a stable connection, it doesn't actually use that much bandwidth. I can play tethered off my cell phone without issue. Being in a populated area does not generate that much more traffic on your connection. If it was an issue with the user connection, they should be having issues everywhere. This points towards either capacity issues with PWE's infrastructure or QoS/throttling somewhere along the lines.
Latency/response times are worse during "peak hours". Yes, latency is going to be higher during peak hours. That's a fact of life. However, this applies to everything on the internet. As frequently brought up in these threads, the people that are experiencing severe issues are having zero issues accessing anything else on the internet. If it was simply a matter of too much traffic in their part of the world, this would be affecting other things.
Now, here's where the having 3 people in the same house playing comes in handy. I'm playing Borg Disconnected. No lag. Roommate 1 is playing a storyline mission, no lag. Roommate 2 is on ESD and is rubberbanding all over the place. If it was our connection, we would all be rubberbanding. All three computers are plugged into the same gigabit switch. CPU usage on the switch is 9%, CPU usage on the router is 2%. It's not a utilization issue.
While connectivity issues are not under PWE's control, it is their responsibility to ensure their customers are being provided adequate service. As somebody who's spent an absurd amount of time on the phone with the business tier support for Level 3, AT&T, Verizon, Cox, Telepacific, etc, I know exactly what's involved in that. I've been on 8 hour conference calls with multiple ISP's narrowing down issues. It might take you a while to get the ISP to do something, but they will eventually do something.
Lastly, I will also say some of the communities response to these complaints are just as harmful as the lack of official response. Many times as soon as somebody complains about lag, people start telling them it's their connection, get a better one despite having zero evidence to back that. Is it sometimes the user connection? Sure. But how about waiting until there's evidence of that before dismissing a user's issue? Just because you aren't having an issue doesn't make it the other users problem. Regardless who's fault it is, the user is having an issue. When you post on the forums asking for assistance and get greeted with "it's your fault because I said so", that doesn't exactly promote a helpful environment. I'll also say this combined with the lack of response from PWE/Cryptic personally makes me only post an issue as an absolute last straw.
While that's true that there are always two sides of the coin around here, in this particular case fanbois have nothing to do here. People (suposedly) have genuine issues, I know that I'm experiencing terrible UI lag and are comming here saying that - some less eloquent than others, expecting Cryptic to fix that.
If people think that the devs are so soft that they need forum warrior protection about every single possible complaint, then quite honestly - people need to grow a spine. I'm sure the devs are more than capable of comming here and saying "Sorry folks, we checked and it's not on our side. You're asking us to fix sth. that is not up to us.", but instead they have taken a note of the problem, already tried to fix it in the last patch (unsuccesfully) and even a dev in game admitted that they're aware and looking into it. And then you have the fanbois comming here after all of that, claiming that they know where the problem lies and that it couldn't be Cryptic, because *gasp* deities don't make mistakes. :rolleyes:
It basically boils down to:
Complainer 1: Cryptic, I'm having severe lag! When are you going to fix this?
Fanboy 1: Well, I'm not experiencing any lag so you must be lying you entitled whiners!
And you don't need to be any Sherlock to figure out where that one is going. Basically, the complainer has a complaint, it's up to the company to respond wheather they'll be fixing it or it's not in their court. If someone steps over the line, we have mods and CMs to take care of that.
The fanbois have no real place or reason to be here in this particular case, other than poking the wasps' nest and adding salt on the wound of players that are experiencing problems and have grievances, or just genuine trolling.
And we all know that the trolls' place is not here, but rather back under the bridge.
Hey! I'm on your side here! LOL
I'm sure we can assume those who need to know the problem exists do in fact know, and since it's throwing a major wrench into their machine they are doing what they can do get it sorted out, so they can turn their attention back to the every increasing workload.
All you can do is have some patience and wait until it is resolved. Picking on fellow players may pass the time while you wait, but it is pointless. Just chill, think of the poor keyboards.
Doesn't apply when people adamantly deny anything is wrong and say it's all your fault when it is not. Then claim it logically can not be anything but your fault. Agree to disagree is not applicable to all situations. Iran denies the holacaust.... Do you agree to disagree? No. There's just-plain-wrong sometimes. Objectively wrong.
And as for Cryptic? Their track record on fixing game-breaking issues in respectable time frames is almost nil. Trusting that they'll get it done? Has NEVER worked. Period.
Very true...
I think the white knights are either:
1- People who have nothing else to do or not even play the game but to throll others into a twisted reality.
2- Cryptic employees on different accounts "pretending" to be playerbase and herd true public opinion.
I cannot comprehend any logical or intelligent life at the other end of many of the "real" issues" here that think STO is true Nirvana at the current state.
Granted we ALL think different yet if we ALL truly play the SAME game we would encounter the "same" issues and same "reality" unless it was an alternate reality being conjectured by an schizophrenic realm