I see this as someone making a racist joke. Someone says something offensive, and everyone in the group except one guy laughs. Sure, it was clearly funny to 90% of those who heard the joke. But that doesn't mean that the feelings of the one guy who felt that the joke was poking fun AT him, are invalid. It's still a racist joke. It may be funny to most, but that doesn't mean it's going to be funny to all, and it certainly doesn't mean it's right.
As that one guy, I can tell you, the joke is not funny.
Taking Geko's words and making a meme of it is somehow equivalent to a racist joke? I can appreciate you know and work with the man, so it's more personal to you, but you really think the meme is on the level of racist jokes? So in your world, quoting a man's words is the same as making prejudiced blanket statements about an entire group of people?
Straw-manning an entire group of people, check, seems a little closer to racism to me. So you didn't find something funny, that's that's your right. Your customers didn't find Geko's commentary about whether they like your product funny, and that's their right. Going hyperbolic about a simple meme is... bizarre.
[Edit]: Oh and if you don't think there has been constructive feedback regarding what's behind the meme, all you have to do is read. I invite you to do so before making blanket (racist by your standards) comments about those that have the sigs.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that we like being mean-spirited. Well, I don't. The simple fact is, we feel like the game could be a hell of a lot better in many ways, and we wish that would happen, and simply asking nicely has had absolutely no effect whatsoever.
And thanks to not being nice, we achieved...
Hmm.
Tacofangs talks to you about signatures. Not the game. Not artist insights.
Well, I guess that's something. Hooray!
Heck, we didn't even get any reaction to the observation that the Benthan ships appear to be flying backwards compared to Voyager, and the artists at least occasionally speak with us. Which probably has a harmless explanation like "We used data from the drex files and other sources that suggested this is the actual flight direction the ships were intended for, and since we thought it looked better, we stuck with it."
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Tacofangs talks to you about signatures. Not the game. Not design insights.
Well, I guess that's something. Hooray!
This. Completely and utterly.
Instead of creating a dialogue in what changes we want to see, what direction the game should go on, and how it can be profitable for Cryptic and yet enjoyable for us?
... well, now we're talking about the signatures.
We're like cats sniffing the finger pointing at the food, instead of the food itself.
It's really the same mentality as the same analogy you make. We have to play Forumball. Where there are two teams who have to compete against each other. "Us" and "Them". And we all wear jerseys that say we either love Delta Rising and absolutely nothing needs to change, and the ones who say everything needs to die in a fire.
It's not like that at all. It's possible to exist in a middle ground and behave like rational adults and treat each other as adults.
STO is never going to be perfect. I will never at any point expect the game to be tailored precisely to how I would like it. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think I would enjoy STO very much if it was tailored specifically to my likes and nobody else's. Because I fully expect other people who play the game to get a little bit of what they want too, even if I have no interest it.
But hey, being willing to take a middle ground just means you're a Cryptic apologist around these parts.
What is this Middle BS that's not Star Trek, I remember the episode "The Vengeance Factor" where Picard said that there will be no middle grown, the Sovereign is completely right, and slammed Chorgan face on a pencil...Best episode EVER!
Tacofangs talks to you about signatures. Not the game. Not design insights.
Well, I guess that's something. Hooray!
You make a good point... being nice hasn't achieved diddly... being mean hasn't achieved diddly.
If they where politicians we would simply not vote for them and remove them.
If they where a business we would simply stop buying... oh wait.
I think we all know what the solution is I guess.
Businesses that stop worrying what there customers think fall into 2 categories. I don't know about you MM, I am not sure I would call Cryptic visionary.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,158Community Moderator
Heck, we didn't even get any reaction to the observation that the Benthan ships appear to be flying backwards compared to Voyager, and the artists at least occasionally speak with us. Which probably has a harmless explanation like "We used data from the drex files and other sources that suggested this is the actual flight direction the ships were intended for, and since we thought it looked better, we stuck with it."
To be honest... forwards or backwards doesn't really bother me. It was a one off ship of the episode after all.
What is this Middle BS that's not Star Trek, I remember the episode "The Vengeance Factor" where Picard said that there will be no middle grown, the Sovereign is completely right, and slammed Chorgan face on a pencil...Best episode EVER!
LOL
I'll take that stance agaisnt the Borg, since there is no negotiation with them. Even if there is, there's always a backstab just waiting for you.
It is time that we move on now that we have some kind of communication open due to these.
Do we? Beacose the only one comunicating with us is the guy in charge of making the game maps.
Does Geko or Dengelo came here to assure us that the company is going to change the course? Did Borticus adress any of the millions balance issues? No.. then sorry, the sigs stays.
It's really the same mentality as the same analogy you make. We have to play Forumball. Where there are two teams who have to compete against each other. "Us" and "Them". And we all wear jerseys that say we either love Delta Rising and absolutely nothing needs to change, and the ones who say everything needs to die in a fire.
It's not like that at all. It's possible to exist in a middle ground and behave like rational adults and treat each other as adults.
Is not like that.. beacose is simple, one side has power and the other side only can be expresed by signatures.
Instead of creating a dialogue in what changes we want to see, what direction the game should go on, and how it can be profitable for Cryptic and yet enjoyable for us?
... well, now we're talking about the signatures.
We're like cats sniffing the finger pointing at the food, instead of the food itself.
But the Sigs worked, because we are talking about the Signatures, and that was the point right?
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,158Community Moderator
Instead of creating a dialogue in what changes we want to see, what direction the game should go on, and how it can be profitable for Cryptic and yet enjoyable for us?
... well, now we're talking about the signatures.
We're like cats sniffing the finger pointing at the food, instead of the food itself.
Because we allowed one of them to come in and point fingers at us and yell... YOUR NOT NICE. And and and your raciest.
Its our fault for falling for that.
Did we all let Exon point fingers and yell YOUR NOT nice... when people made jokes about them after slicking Alaska.
How about BP when there Deep water horizon spewed oil non stop... did they get to call there customers Mean cause they where annoyed. I mean many comics at that time made plenty of dark jokes about that spill... did we allow BP to point a finger at them and yell racist.
Is not like that.. beacose is simple, one side has power and the other side only can be expresed by signatures.
If that side can only express their desires for the game and what they want to see through their signatures, then they have no purpose of being on the STO forums.
If all people can do parrot a meme to distill all their constructive feedback and input, then they fail at communication just as badly as Cryptic seems to do.
Yes, I am making the very serious point that parroting, "Delta Rising is the best expansion ever, and the players love it!" in a cynical and sarcastic fashion is equally vague and unhelpful as saying, "Delta Rising is the best expansion ever, and the players love it!" sincerely from the keyboard of a Cryptic developer.
It shows a disconnect the players have with how communication and feedback works, and how player feedback is A factor in ongoing game development, not THE factor.
Because we allowed one of them to come in and point fingers at us and yell... YOUR NOT NICE. And and and your raciest.
Its our fault for falling for that.
Did we all let Exon point fingers and yell YOUR NOT nice... when people made jokes about them after slicking Alaska.
How about BP when there Deep water horizon spewed oil non stop... did they get to call there customers Mean cause they where annoyed. I mean many comics at that time made plenty of dark jokes about that spill... did we allow BP to point a finger at them and yell racist.
Taco owes US an apology frankly.
You sir make me sick
All those poor animals died, and you use them as a example, why do you hate the environment, what are you going to do when the oceans are all polluted.
You're worst then a Captain Planet villain...You owe mother Nature an apology
Because we allowed one of them to come in and point fingers at us and yell... YOUR NOT NICE. And and and your raciest.
Its our fault for falling for that.
Did we all let Exon point fingers and yell YOUR NOT nice... when people made jokes about them after slicking Alaska.
How about BP when there Deep water horizon spewed oil non stop... did they get to call there customers Mean cause they where annoyed. I mean many comics at that time made plenty of dark jokes about that spill... did we allow BP to point a finger at them and yell racist.
Taco owes US an apology frankly.
Yeah, because Star Trek Online is the exact same thing as oil spills from the Exxon-Valdez and Deepwater Horizon Spill.
Tacofangs doesn't owe you anything. Like everybody else who slings mud with the most asinine analogies like comparing Cryptic to animals, TRIBBLE, and fascists... like the people who quote Tacofangs and other developers out of context to make a narrative that exists only in their minds? Yeah, sorry. But rhetoric is the only language some of you people on the forums understand.
When it comes to those kinds of 'jokes', the point is the person you're jokingly 'jabbing at' with, has to recognize it's a joke. If it's not a joke, then it's clearly just offensive. And it's not their fault for not finding it funny.
I don't particularly enjoy being mean-spirited either, so I agree with what starswordc said here. I also agree that asking nicely and providing constructive feedback gets no attention whatsoever. However, I can see where Taco is coming with regard that the sigs are against everyone on the Dev team, so I personally took mine down. With that said, I am inclined to call B.S. on "tell us what we're doing wrong" as we have told them this numerous times over the years. Constructive feedback seems to fall upon deaf ears. We'll see if any of the Devs respond to the most recent thread with civil, constructive feedback.
This is another recent example of players providing specific feedback about what they think needs fixing.
All those poor animals died, and you use them as a example, why do you hate the environment, what are you going to do when the oceans are all polluted.
You're worst then a Captain Planet villain...You owe mother Nature an apology
"A congressman actually apologized to BP's CEO for the way the company has been treated. How stupid are you when the CEO of BP is in the room and people think you're the moron?" –Jay Leno
"Today, President Obama finally met with BP's CEO, Tony Hayward, but the meeting was only scheduled 20 minutes. Call me crazy, but I think it should take more time to discuss an oil spill than it does to get your oil checked." —Jimmy Fallon
"How about that oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico. And you know, the oil slick is going everywhere. So the next time somebody lands on the Hudson, it won't be that big a deal." —David Letterman
I could go on... I don't need to though. Those guys are all cleary hate nature. How dare they make fun of people whos actions result in such things.
Please don't moderate me mods... there quotes I don't share such vile thinking.
Taco made it clear that they are hurtful and accomplishes nothing, nor do they represent my opinion.
I think they represent disfaction in a polite way
your opinion is your own
If taco said that then they must be having a impact
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
If that side can only express their desires for the game and what they want to see through their signatures, then they have no purpose of being on the STO forums.
Well, it seems that our metod make some white Knights mad.. so at least we can call that a success. Yes, we loss the war, cryptic does not hear any other feedback that is "we love you Cryptic" but at least we are not going down with out a good figth. Now if that make you mad, sorry.. we try the other metod and we failed.
If all people can do parrot a meme to distill all their constructive feedback and input, then they fail at communication just as badly as Cryptic seems to do.
Do you even enter to thread that are not "we love you cryptic"? The forum is full of feedback about what is bad with DR.
Firstly, I want to start out by saying that I personally think Tacofangs is pretty awesome. He takes time out of his busy schedule to post on the forums and engage with players ingame. He may not always tell us what we want to hear, but he does take the time to interact with us, which is very much a good thing - and much needed in this current atmosphere. I want to thank him, and encourage other Devs to do more of this.
Secondly, if the spate of Delta Rising Forum sigs has been upsetting to anyone personally - then that is to be regretted. I can't personally apologise for them, as I never had one, hough I found some to be very creative and somewhat amusing (though many were just lazy bashing).
The fact that so many people had them however, is telling - the most succesful memes tend to be the ones that touch a nerve/identify with an emerging undercurrent of feeling. The reason Mr Rivera's comment was picked up on (which I just saw as standard PR/management speak), was that it vastly contrasted to a large number of players' actual experiences since DR, and their feelings toward the changes. I will not list these in full here, but please see Zaichal or Lerpyderp's posts above for a summary of the most contentious issues.
This brings us to the much bigger and more important issue: that of the recent changes to the game, and the vastly differing attitudes toward them by players/Devs - this is what people are upset about.
The playerbase genuinely feels like it is not being listened to. I am not talking just about the forums, which are a rather extreme example. I am talking about the general feeling ingame - when I talk to/observe people in global channels/zone chats/and the various fleets I am in. It is a feeling of frustration that has gotten to the point that a lot of people feel STO isn't going to last another year.
This anger is magnified by quotes (including tone) along the lines of those mentioned, that the devs feel that as some customer feedback is put forward humourously/rudely/aggressively, it is insulting and can therefore be disregarded. I have seen quite a few threads where the exact same points have been put forward in a polite, constructive and respectful tone. These have not received any response.
If Cryptic feels it can ignore its customers, simply because it does not like the tone in which some are providing feedback, it is perfectly able to do so. However, this does not bode well for the future of STO, including its future $ potential.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,158Community Moderator
Well, it seems that our metod make some white Knights mad.. so at least we can call that a success. Yes, we loss the war, cryptic does not hear any other feedback that is "we love you Cryptic" but at least we are not going down with out a good figth. Now if that make you mad, sorry.. we try the other metod and we failed.
Wondered how long it'd be until I was called a white knight. You really bring nothing to the discussion table.
You are Khan who has in his hands the genesis device. Instead of just taking your genesis device and figuring out what to do with the power to construct something better for yourself, you're dead set on trying to blow yourself and Cryptic up with it just for hate's sake. Just so you can go down with a fight, just as long as you're "Right".
Do you even enter to thread that are not "we love you cryptic"? The forum is full of feedback about what is bad with DR.
I enter lots of threads with constructive feedback. I either support the OP or I point out what I think could be better. I also point out what is wrong with their feedback. If they're absolutely determined to live in another reality than the one the players and Cryptic exists in, then I'll point that out too.
I'd agree with this if there weren't literally hundreds and hundreds (if not more) of constructive posts on the forums sharing feedback that the Devs never, ever responded to over the years. This goes on long before there were "Best of" signatures.
If you were facing hundreds of threads or posts with feedback - which one do you pick to reply for?
Stuff like the signature just reminds the developers how important it is to pick exactly the right thread and the right reply to make - because, oh god, if you get it wrong, it will be held against you for weeks and months.
So better not reply at all. Let the community team collect the ideas and if they are workable, something will make it into the game.
And it's not like that never happened. All those canon ships that made it into the game for example - they're there because there has been definitive feedback that people want them.
Saucer Seperation; MVAM? People asked for that, too.
Sponsorship Tokens? People asked for things to get easier.
But think about how long it took Cryptic to get all this done. The Stargazer/Constellation Class as Tier 5 made it in last year - when did the people first ask for it? Shortly after launch probably, if not before... So it probably took them 4 years...
How long did we have reputations before we got sponsorship tokens?
Heck, the Foundry - I don't think Cryptic would have seriously considered that if players hadn't expressed interest in it...
Of course, people will ask "Why can't they make something about the upgrade or specialization grind now, why do we get a BOFF revamp instead?" Because things take time. Weeks for the winter event, someone posted a suggestion on what they wanted to see for 2014/2015 Winter Event... Taco said it was too late for that... He implied that was the time to make suggestions for the 2015 Summer Event...
That is the kind of cycles we have to consider for system changes.
And yes, changing the "ARgala Grind" situation is a system change. It will require data, data analysis, it will require design work. What needs to be done, how can it be done? It was not gonna happen over Christmas...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Yeah, because Star Trek Online is the exact same thing as oil spills from the Exxon-Valdez and Deepwater Horizon Spill.
Tacofangs doesn't owe you anything. Like everybody else who slings mud with the most asinine analogies like comparing Cryptic to animals, TRIBBLE, and fascists... like the people who quote Tacofangs and other developers out of context to make a narrative that exists only in their minds? Yeah, sorry. But rhetoric is the only language some of you people on the forums understand.
When it comes to those kinds of 'jokes', the point is the person you're jokingly 'jabbing at' with, has to recognize it's a joke. If it's not a joke, then it's clearly just offensive. And it's not their fault for not finding it funny.
Again this happens in political humour all the time. Its pretty much what its based on. That doesn't make it "racist".
I'm sorry but taco didn't say... of all the meme sig jokes a few crossed over into racism and jokes of questionable taste. No he used a wide brush and said;
I see this as someone making a racist joke. Someone says something offensive, and everyone in the group except one guy laughs. Sure, it was clearly funny to 90% of those who heard the joke. But that doesn't mean that the feelings of the one guy who felt that the joke was poking fun AT him, are invalid. It's still a racist joke. It may be funny to most, but that doesn't mean it's going to be funny to all, and it certainly doesn't mean it's right.
As that one guy, I can tell you, the joke is not funny.
He was very clear. He is saying by using Gekos own words to form a joke we are making an offensive joke. I did not find that amusing. If a politician said the same about a political joke I made where I did nothing but quote there own words with a funny drawing of them as a pig or some such thing. I would be extremely offended. As I am now.
I don't particularly enjoy being mean-spirited either, so I agree with what starswordc said here. I also agree that asking nicely and providing constructive feedback gets no attention whatsoever. However, I can see where Taco is coming with regard that the sigs are against everyone on the Dev team, so I personally took mine down. With that said, I am inclined to call B.S. on "tell us what we're doing wrong" as we have told them this numerous times over the years. Constructive feedback seems to fall upon deaf ears. We'll see if any of the Devs respond to the most recent thread with civil, constructive feedback.
Yeah, I agree... Either the devs (Even Taco, who does great work and is evidently a great person) are completely blind, or they aren't allowed to acknowledge the thousands (For there must be by now) of these sorts of topics and posts for some reason.
...Anyway, ironically, it's partly due to this topic that I put UP a signature containing "best expansion ever and the players love it." But... a bit differently.
You are Khan who has in his hands the genesis device.
LOL
YOu can make a lot of examples and metaphors. I can make one too.. we are freedom figthers going againts an opresor goverment.. we are like che guevara.. lol
But that is just a stupid metaphor (not worst that your tho).
We are what we are: angree players that got tired of been ignored and see a game call Star Trek gets ruined.
I enter lots of threads with constructive feedback. I either support the OP or I point out what I think could be better. I also point out what is wrong with their feedback. If they're absolutely determined to live in another reality than the one the players and Cryptic exists in, then I'll point that out too.
And cryptic ignore it all.
_________________________________________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,158Community Moderator
If you were facing hundreds of threads or posts with feedback - which one do you pick to reply for?
Stuff like the signature just reminds the developers how important it is to pick exactly the right thread and the right reply to make - because, oh god, if you get it wrong, it will be held against you for weeks and months.
So better not reply at all. Let the community team collect the ideas and if they are workable, something will make it into the game.
And it's not like that never happened. All those canon ships that made it into the game for example - they're there because there has been definitive feedback that people want them.
Saucer Seperation; MVAM? People asked for that, too.
Sponsorship Tokens? People asked for things to get easier.
But think about how long it took Cryptic to get all this done. The Stargazer/Constellation Class as Tier 5 made it in last year - when did the people first ask for it? Shortly after launch probably, if not before... So it probably took them 4 years...
How long did we have reputations before we got sponsorship tokens?
Heck, the Foundry - I don't think Cryptic would have seriously considered that if players hadn't expressed interest in it...
Of course, people will ask "Why can't they make something about the upgrade or specialization grind now, why do we get a BOFF revamp instead?" Because things take time. Weeks for the winter event, someone posted a suggestion on what they wanted to see for 2014/2015 Winter Event... Taco said it was too late for that... He implied that was the time to make suggestions for the 2015 Summer Event...
That is the kind of cycles we have to consider for system changes.
And yes, changing the "ARgala Grind" situation is a system change. It will require data, data analysis, it will require design work. What needs to be done, how can it be done? It was not gonna happen over Christmas...
Glad I'm not the only one who understands that things take time and things get planned out in advance.
Comments
Taking Geko's words and making a meme of it is somehow equivalent to a racist joke? I can appreciate you know and work with the man, so it's more personal to you, but you really think the meme is on the level of racist jokes? So in your world, quoting a man's words is the same as making prejudiced blanket statements about an entire group of people?
If you want something akin to a racist comment, look up Geko calling PvPer's 14 year-olds min/maxers.
Straw-manning an entire group of people, check, seems a little closer to racism to me. So you didn't find something funny, that's that's your right. Your customers didn't find Geko's commentary about whether they like your product funny, and that's their right. Going hyperbolic about a simple meme is... bizarre.
[Edit]: Oh and if you don't think there has been constructive feedback regarding what's behind the meme, all you have to do is read. I invite you to do so before making blanket (racist by your standards) comments about those that have the sigs.
And thanks to not being nice, we achieved...
Hmm.
Tacofangs talks to you about signatures. Not the game. Not artist insights.
Well, I guess that's something. Hooray!
Heck, we didn't even get any reaction to the observation that the Benthan ships appear to be flying backwards compared to Voyager, and the artists at least occasionally speak with us. Which probably has a harmless explanation like "We used data from the drex files and other sources that suggested this is the actual flight direction the ships were intended for, and since we thought it looked better, we stuck with it."
This. Completely and utterly.
Instead of creating a dialogue in what changes we want to see, what direction the game should go on, and how it can be profitable for Cryptic and yet enjoyable for us?
... well, now we're talking about the signatures.
We're like cats sniffing the finger pointing at the food, instead of the food itself.
What is this Middle BS that's not Star Trek, I remember the episode "The Vengeance Factor" where Picard said that there will be no middle grown, the Sovereign is completely right, and slammed Chorgan face on a pencil...Best episode EVER!
You make a good point... being nice hasn't achieved diddly... being mean hasn't achieved diddly.
If they where politicians we would simply not vote for them and remove them.
If they where a business we would simply stop buying... oh wait.
I think we all know what the solution is I guess.
Businesses that stop worrying what there customers think fall into 2 categories. I don't know about you MM, I am not sure I would call Cryptic visionary.
To be honest... forwards or backwards doesn't really bother me. It was a one off ship of the episode after all.
LOL
I'll take that stance agaisnt the Borg, since there is no negotiation with them. Even if there is, there's always a backstab just waiting for you.
Forum posters are much less aware than cats.
Do we? Beacose the only one comunicating with us is the guy in charge of making the game maps.
Does Geko or Dengelo came here to assure us that the company is going to change the course? Did Borticus adress any of the millions balance issues? No.. then sorry, the sigs stays.
Is not like that.. beacose is simple, one side has power and the other side only can be expresed by signatures.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But the Sigs worked, because we are talking about the Signatures, and that was the point right?
Because we allowed one of them to come in and point fingers at us and yell... YOUR NOT NICE. And and and your raciest.
Its our fault for falling for that.
Did we all let Exon point fingers and yell YOUR NOT nice... when people made jokes about them after slicking Alaska.
How about BP when there Deep water horizon spewed oil non stop... did they get to call there customers Mean cause they where annoyed. I mean many comics at that time made plenty of dark jokes about that spill... did we allow BP to point a finger at them and yell racist.
Taco owes US an apology frankly.
If that side can only express their desires for the game and what they want to see through their signatures, then they have no purpose of being on the STO forums.
If all people can do parrot a meme to distill all their constructive feedback and input, then they fail at communication just as badly as Cryptic seems to do.
Yes, I am making the very serious point that parroting, "Delta Rising is the best expansion ever, and the players love it!" in a cynical and sarcastic fashion is equally vague and unhelpful as saying, "Delta Rising is the best expansion ever, and the players love it!" sincerely from the keyboard of a Cryptic developer.
It shows a disconnect the players have with how communication and feedback works, and how player feedback is A factor in ongoing game development, not THE factor.
You sir make me sick
All those poor animals died, and you use them as a example, why do you hate the environment, what are you going to do when the oceans are all polluted.
You're worst then a Captain Planet villain...You owe mother Nature an apology
Yeah, because Star Trek Online is the exact same thing as oil spills from the Exxon-Valdez and Deepwater Horizon Spill.
Tacofangs doesn't owe you anything. Like everybody else who slings mud with the most asinine analogies like comparing Cryptic to animals, TRIBBLE, and fascists... like the people who quote Tacofangs and other developers out of context to make a narrative that exists only in their minds? Yeah, sorry. But rhetoric is the only language some of you people on the forums understand.
When it comes to those kinds of 'jokes', the point is the person you're jokingly 'jabbing at' with, has to recognize it's a joke. If it's not a joke, then it's clearly just offensive. And it's not their fault for not finding it funny.
This is another recent example of players providing specific feedback about what they think needs fixing.
I also hope it gets looked at by somebody.
"A congressman actually apologized to BP's CEO for the way the company has been treated. How stupid are you when the CEO of BP is in the room and people think you're the moron?" –Jay Leno
"Today, President Obama finally met with BP's CEO, Tony Hayward, but the meeting was only scheduled 20 minutes. Call me crazy, but I think it should take more time to discuss an oil spill than it does to get your oil checked." —Jimmy Fallon
"How about that oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico. And you know, the oil slick is going everywhere. So the next time somebody lands on the Hudson, it won't be that big a deal." —David Letterman
I could go on... I don't need to though. Those guys are all cleary hate nature. How dare they make fun of people whos actions result in such things.
Please don't moderate me mods... there quotes I don't share such vile thinking.
I think they represent disfaction in a polite way
your opinion is your own
If taco said that then they must be having a impact
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Well, it seems that our metod make some white Knights mad.. so at least we can call that a success. Yes, we loss the war, cryptic does not hear any other feedback that is "we love you Cryptic" but at least we are not going down with out a good figth. Now if that make you mad, sorry.. we try the other metod and we failed.
Do you even enter to thread that are not "we love you cryptic"? The forum is full of feedback about what is bad with DR.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Secondly, if the spate of Delta Rising Forum sigs has been upsetting to anyone personally - then that is to be regretted. I can't personally apologise for them, as I never had one, hough I found some to be very creative and somewhat amusing (though many were just lazy bashing).
The fact that so many people had them however, is telling - the most succesful memes tend to be the ones that touch a nerve/identify with an emerging undercurrent of feeling. The reason Mr Rivera's comment was picked up on (which I just saw as standard PR/management speak), was that it vastly contrasted to a large number of players' actual experiences since DR, and their feelings toward the changes. I will not list these in full here, but please see Zaichal or Lerpyderp's posts above for a summary of the most contentious issues.
This brings us to the much bigger and more important issue: that of the recent changes to the game, and the vastly differing attitudes toward them by players/Devs - this is what people are upset about.
The playerbase genuinely feels like it is not being listened to. I am not talking just about the forums, which are a rather extreme example. I am talking about the general feeling ingame - when I talk to/observe people in global channels/zone chats/and the various fleets I am in. It is a feeling of frustration that has gotten to the point that a lot of people feel STO isn't going to last another year.
This anger is magnified by quotes (including tone) along the lines of those mentioned, that the devs feel that as some customer feedback is put forward humourously/rudely/aggressively, it is insulting and can therefore be disregarded. I have seen quite a few threads where the exact same points have been put forward in a polite, constructive and respectful tone. These have not received any response.
If Cryptic feels it can ignore its customers, simply because it does not like the tone in which some are providing feedback, it is perfectly able to do so. However, this does not bode well for the future of STO, including its future $ potential.
Hate to bring this up, but remember what happened the last time there was an impact? 5 minute wait between posts because of the rage over DR.
Wondered how long it'd be until I was called a white knight. You really bring nothing to the discussion table.
You are Khan who has in his hands the genesis device. Instead of just taking your genesis device and figuring out what to do with the power to construct something better for yourself, you're dead set on trying to blow yourself and Cryptic up with it just for hate's sake. Just so you can go down with a fight, just as long as you're "Right".
I enter lots of threads with constructive feedback. I either support the OP or I point out what I think could be better. I also point out what is wrong with their feedback. If they're absolutely determined to live in another reality than the one the players and Cryptic exists in, then I'll point that out too.
What, say what you think makes you nervous? Are you afraid of what they may do if you say what you think?
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If you were facing hundreds of threads or posts with feedback - which one do you pick to reply for?
Stuff like the signature just reminds the developers how important it is to pick exactly the right thread and the right reply to make - because, oh god, if you get it wrong, it will be held against you for weeks and months.
So better not reply at all. Let the community team collect the ideas and if they are workable, something will make it into the game.
And it's not like that never happened. All those canon ships that made it into the game for example - they're there because there has been definitive feedback that people want them.
Saucer Seperation; MVAM? People asked for that, too.
Sponsorship Tokens? People asked for things to get easier.
But think about how long it took Cryptic to get all this done. The Stargazer/Constellation Class as Tier 5 made it in last year - when did the people first ask for it? Shortly after launch probably, if not before... So it probably took them 4 years...
How long did we have reputations before we got sponsorship tokens?
Heck, the Foundry - I don't think Cryptic would have seriously considered that if players hadn't expressed interest in it...
Of course, people will ask "Why can't they make something about the upgrade or specialization grind now, why do we get a BOFF revamp instead?" Because things take time. Weeks for the winter event, someone posted a suggestion on what they wanted to see for 2014/2015 Winter Event... Taco said it was too late for that... He implied that was the time to make suggestions for the 2015 Summer Event...
That is the kind of cycles we have to consider for system changes.
And yes, changing the "ARgala Grind" situation is a system change. It will require data, data analysis, it will require design work. What needs to be done, how can it be done? It was not gonna happen over Christmas...
Again this happens in political humour all the time. Its pretty much what its based on. That doesn't make it "racist".
I'm sorry but taco didn't say... of all the meme sig jokes a few crossed over into racism and jokes of questionable taste. No he used a wide brush and said;
He was very clear. He is saying by using Gekos own words to form a joke we are making an offensive joke. I did not find that amusing. If a politician said the same about a political joke I made where I did nothing but quote there own words with a funny drawing of them as a pig or some such thing. I would be extremely offended. As I am now.
Yeah, I agree... Either the devs (Even Taco, who does great work and is evidently a great person) are completely blind, or they aren't allowed to acknowledge the thousands (For there must be by now) of these sorts of topics and posts for some reason.
...Anyway, ironically, it's partly due to this topic that I put UP a signature containing "best expansion ever and the players love it." But... a bit differently.
I didnt call YOU a white knight, but if the shoe fit you, use it.
LOL
YOu can make a lot of examples and metaphors. I can make one too.. we are freedom figthers going againts an opresor goverment.. we are like che guevara.. lol
But that is just a stupid metaphor (not worst that your tho).
We are what we are: angree players that got tired of been ignored and see a game call Star Trek gets ruined.
And cryptic ignore it all.
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Glad I'm not the only one who understands that things take time and things get planned out in advance.