The productive thing is likely to focus on what PART or PARTS of DR or other recent approaches you dislike rather than dumping on the whole efforts of the team. That doesn't mean shutting up, though. It actually means trying to be more on message.
That is not posible on a signature, the size is to small. There are a loooooooot of thread on how things are wroing with DR. So there is not excuse for them to know why some part of the community is not happy.
The productive thing is likely to focus on what PART or PARTS of DR or other recent approaches you dislike rather than dumping on the whole efforts of the team. That doesn't mean shutting up, though. It actually means trying to be more on message.
Mine does that. It's what immediately came to mind when I saw the attempts to manipulate players into grinding Delta Quadrant patrols for Skill Points.
It seems to have upset the OP which is just an extremely hilarious bonus.
Outside of the bug report forums I have never seen this process take place:
Person writes a post about an issue.
Developer sees this post.
Developer replies "I am looking into this issue" or similar
Developer looks into the issue, confirms what the original poster said and then replies again "I have confirmed that this is a problem, I will look into it"
Problem gets resolved.
People can talk all day long about the approach we use when we talk to the devs but the truth is you can be as nice as you like and your problem won't get any actual attention. The development team are working on a schedule, according to them, that is planned up to 12 months in advance. They won't take time away from that to resolve issues unless it's some sort of dilithium based oversight that needs correcting.
Look how long it took for the loadout issue to be addressed - and some people are still having issues with it.
If you genuinely think a player's signature has stopped a member of Cryptic's staff from doing their job then I think you're projecting your own over-sensitive nature onto them. I've reported bugs in the bug report section while I had this signature and nobody there said "I'm not looking at that bug report, your signature offends me"
Get real folks.
The devs make content so it falls on the CM to actually relay bug requests and general game issues. For pete's sake, do your job! Clearly, the CM and devs haven't done enough though because a lot of us felt so desperate due to lack of communication on the devs that we had to resort to sarcastic humor to get our point across that DR badly needed to be tweaked. And even after the "DR is the best expansion ever" campaign, the devs still have not properly fixed stf's.
TBH, I give up. Let PWE's board of directors and CEO sort out this mess because Al Rivera continues to isolate himself from reality and from criticism, both the destructive and constructive kinds. I've even begun to wonder whether or not Al is actively ignoring criticism about game direction from even within his own ranks but it's impossible to know for sure if that's what's been going on.
Let me just say this: I have never seen such poor communication from the devs and the forum community so systematically ignored by the same in all 4 years that I've played STo. You keep isolating yourselves from any kind of criticism and STo is going to continue to hurt as a community and as a game.
Posted by js26568
Is that acceptable for something many people considered a game-breaking issue?
I found it it a considerable inconvenience and there were a few occasions when I felt I'd really screwed over my team when I dropped into a queue with no tray but I don't feel it made the game completely unplayable.
The devs were working on a solution to the tray issue; No, it still may not be perfect but that's the nature of the beast trying to sort out bugs in a persistent game. Ongoing efforts to rectify the deficiency are contrary to your suggestion but you have a penchant for hyperbole.
I intend to keep my signature as is. I stand by my DR review.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
The productive thing is likely to focus on what PART or PARTS of DR or other recent approaches you dislike rather than dumping on the whole efforts of the team. That doesn't mean shutting up, though. It actually means trying to be more on message.
Or ... it can be interpreted as devide and conquer .
After all when we all QQ about our own pet peeves , we're all the more easily ignored as the "minority with minority's issues" .
It's only when we speak with one voice that says "we're not happy now" , that's when we're referred to as "hurtful" .
And quite honestly , coming here and looking for "normal" feedback almost 3 months since DR debuted just highlighted the one thing the Dev's quite possibly didn't do for the last 3 months: making a list of player issues, concerns and requests .
I found it it a considerable inconvenience and there were a few occasions when I felt I'd really screwed over my team when I dropped into a queue with no tray but I don't feel it made the game completely unplayable.
The devs were working on a solution to the tray issue; No, it still may not be perfect but that's the nature of the beast trying to sort out bugs in a persistent game. Ongoing efforts to rectify the deficiency are contrary to your suggestion but you have a penchant for hyperbole.
I have a hard time giving the devs the benefit of the doubt when coincidentally they were selling load outs when this bug really started to rear it's ugly head and how loadouts were the only and still are the only workaround. How convenient...stop being so naive.
If people want to be taken seriously, have a genuine interest in the state of the game and want to be counted they might consider presenting them self with a veneer of civility.
Wanting to be taken seriously is only one of the preconditions. The other is an expectation that developers would read your post.
In my estimation, the chances of a dev reading, with a mind open to criticism, threads outside the Tribble- and bug-reporting-forums are negligible. Even inside the aforementioned forums chances of your complaint not falling on deaf ears seem very low.
As long as cryptic keeps on hurting me by actively destroying the game I loved my signature will stay and is supposed to be hurtful!
Also, regarding the planned releases, it seems cryptic still did not learn their lessons, so it should be time to have even more signatures that are even more hurtful!
I don't want to get in trouble for naming and shaming so I'll leave that to your imagination.
Is that your way of volunteering for the position? Send your resume together with pinup to our board of directors. Does it matter that i am the only one in the board of directors?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
This thread seems to be a misrepresentation of Taco's own stance.
Taco suggested that if people want to "protest" with signatures, that the meme don't help because they've been taken by the dev team as blanket insults. The "best expansion ever" meme has been taken as an insult and caused some devs to tune out.
Taco suggested that if people want to do a sig protest, they highlight specific issues rather than a general stab at quality.
And the OP of this thread seems to take Taco's stance and pervert it to use as a bludgeon against any form of negativity.
Obviously, I'm sure the devs would be happy if everyone was just HAPPY with things. But we don't need a false binary between everyone unhappy shutting up and lobbing insults at devs.
The productive thing is likely to focus on what PART or PARTS of DR or other recent approaches you dislike rather than dumping on the whole efforts of the team. That doesn't mean shutting up, though. It actually means trying to be more on message.
i'm insulted to, not by you, but by devs. and now what?
part and parts are address on the forums gazillion of times, 3 months later, more or less no budge. if it is bothering them, then it is doing the job that was intended.
Taco made it clear that they are hurtful and accomplishes nothing, nor do they represent my opinion.
Okay, you're right... My signature is wrong, DR is NOT the best expansion ever.
I will change it. Maybe something about how the "STO is not only healthy but is growing"
This thread seems to be a misrepresentation of Taco's own stance.
Taco suggested that if people want to "protest" with signatures, that the meme don't help because they've been taken by the dev team as blanket insults. The "best expansion ever" meme has been taken as an insult and caused some devs to tune out.
Taco suggested that if people want to do a sig protest, they highlight specific issues rather than a general stab at quality.
And the OP of this thread seems to take Taco's stance and pervert it to use as a bludgeon against any form of negativity.
Obviously, I'm sure the devs would be happy if everyone was just HAPPY with things. But we don't need a false binary between everyone unhappy shutting up and lobbing insults at devs.
The productive thing is likely to focus on what PART or PARTS of DR or other recent approaches you dislike rather than dumping on the whole efforts of the team. That doesn't mean shutting up, though. It actually means trying to be more on message.
100% this ^
No one is hampering anyone's freedom of speech on this, but with freedom of speech comes responsibility. If you want the devs to tune you out, then sure, run those signatures, but if you want the devs to pay attention then run something constructive like leviathan's signature. If cryptic hurt you so much that you feel rage, then personally I would seek professional help.
This thread seems to be a misrepresentation of Taco's own stance.
Taco suggested that if people want to "protest" with signatures, that the meme don't help because they've been taken by the dev team as blanket insults. The "best expansion ever" meme has been taken as an insult and caused some devs to tune out.
Would be sad if that were the case. Memes are fun. Fact is, in all seriousness, that memes are a very benign and playful way to make a point, without getting nasty.
When certain claims appear ludicrous, or simply funny to people, chances are a meme for it is in the works. Remember all when Bush Junior decided he was the 'Decider'?! Next few weeks everyone did their own version of "I'm the decider" thingy. Wacky fun!
Taco suggested that if people want to do a sig protest, they highlight specific issues rather than a general stab at quality.
I respectfully disagree with him: it's in the specifics when things tend to get nasty. Memes, on the other hand, are just fun. :P
I think that is my point....your signature isn't a personal attack?
This isnt meant to be snide or rude, but the players/customers, found a way to be heard! Instead of crying and telling for people to be respectful and go back to work quietly. Maybe this is a good sign what they are doing, means what your serving up or refusing to serve needs to be relooked at...especially in the PR dept. We are here spending time and money at your diner. If the customers complain...listen to them, if they begin to make fun, release you must not be doing something right. U cant blame the customer for bad food or service when it happens, YOU, not the CUSTOMER have to change! That smug attitude of (we are star wars, the customer will do anything to play) nearly drove tor out of the mmo market, they adapted a bit. Now their customer service and reliable content are spot on and they are making money again. because they changed...a customer who enjoys whats on his plate gets to have it his way, is a happy spending customer that tells his friends...good things...even burger king knows this! =O.o= look smirk/geko, this game has fun aspects, it has potential to be more then a fast food casino, u would make more money if you made it more then a grind and buy. i didnt finish the new content yet since your xp is cut down to a 3rd of what it normally was, it didnt need to be that way. patrol fillers and xp penalties after L62 mean your just delaying the player for lack of content ideas, you should of just ran a normal storyline and only went to L55. it would of given u a chance to come up and adapt your next season with L60 cap. The signatures are a good idea, it tells whats on our minds and offers whats on the customers mind, take it as feedback and not an offense.
Would be sad if that were the case. Memes are fun. Fact is, in all seriousness, that memes are a very benign and playful way to make a point, without getting nasty.
When certain claims appear ludicrous, or simply funny to people, chances are a meme for it is in the works. Remember all when Bush Junior decided he was the 'Decider'?! Next few weeks everyone did their own version of "I'm the decider" thingy. Wacky fun!
I respectfully disagree with him: it's in the specifics when things tend to get nasty. Memes, on the other hand, are just fun. :P
some memes were derogatory, some sowed inappropriate and fowl language, some showed the devs as hitlar, and some even were x-rated. None of those were playful.
Also, saying DR sucks means everything in DR sucks, which includes all the acting, the story, the ships/powers, everything when most people are just upset at the grind and nerfed dilithium. Focusing has a better chance of getting the devs to pay attention rather than just saying every bit of their work sucks when a lot of it doesn't.
Okay, you're right... My signature is wrong, DR is NOT the best expansion ever.
I will change it. Maybe something about how the "STO is not only healthy but is growing"
Or it can be "Delta Rising is the best expancion ever and the players love it. And beacose of that, STO is not only healthy but is growing"
Taco made it clear that they are hurtful and accomplishes nothing, nor do they represent my opinion.
Thanks, i will keep my signature until XP is "un-nerfed".
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
I am not a moderator. I will not censor you. I am not impinging on Free Speech (despite this being a private forum). I am simply expressing my own, personal opinions on the signatures.
Alright, I never said people can't have their signatures. You're welcome to have any sig you want so long as it doesn't violate the forum rules.
What I said, was that, IMHO, the "Best Expansion Ever" signatures were grating, and a deterrent for more Dev interaction. As a protest, they don't specify what the protest is about, and at the end of the day, I don't believe they are accomplishing anything (if, indeed, they are meant to accomplish anything in the first place).
For those saying that we can't take criticism:
Again, again, again. . . again.
Negative comments, criticism, your opinions, etc. are all TOTALLY FINE! Please keep posting them. Tell us what we're doing wrong. But tell us HOW you think it could be better.
This is something that comes up very often within the art department. Another environment artist coming to my desk, telling me, "That looks like TRIBBLE." doesn't help. Telling me, "That looks like TRIBBLE, it would be better if you did X." does help.
IMO, the "Best Expansion Ever" signatures fall into the former category.
For those saying I should grow up/get thicker skin:
Again, these are just MY personal feelings. I cannot help what I feel. Are you really telling me that I should feel something different than I do? I'm not telling you NOT to feel the way you do about Cryptic/DR/Whatever. I'm just explaining my thoughts about HOW to express those feelings.
For those saying that the sigs are not complaining about MY work:
Like it or not, we are a team. A team I've been on and working with for 3 years. As such, when you complain about Delta Rising, an expansion I worked very hard on, I can't help but feel some of that heat. That doesn't mean I don't understand that your complaints are mostly leveled at other departments, but the Expansion is still a product that was touched by many hands, including my own.
For those saying it's "Just a joke.":
I see this as someone making a racist joke. Someone says something offensive, and everyone in the group except one guy laughs. Sure, it was clearly funny to 90% of those who heard the joke. But that doesn't mean that the feelings of the one guy who felt that the joke was poking fun AT him, are invalid. It's still a racist joke. It may be funny to most, but that doesn't mean it's going to be funny to all, and it certainly doesn't mean it's right.
As that one guy, I can tell you, the joke is not funny.
One last thought. It's interesting to me how many different views have been expressed on the "purpose" of these signatures. I've heard that they are a protest. I've heard that they're just a joke. I've heard that they are intended to be hurtful. I've heard that they are not intended to be hurtful.
Comments
Thanks for the link, much better.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/starfleeteliteforces
Is that acceptable for something many people considered a game-breaking issue?
Free Tibet!
That is not posible on a signature, the size is to small. There are a loooooooot of thread on how things are wroing with DR. So there is not excuse for them to know why some part of the community is not happy.
Is just 12 months........ lol...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Mine does that. It's what immediately came to mind when I saw the attempts to manipulate players into grinding Delta Quadrant patrols for Skill Points.
It seems to have upset the OP which is just an extremely hilarious bonus.
Free Tibet!
The devs make content so it falls on the CM to actually relay bug requests and general game issues. For pete's sake, do your job! Clearly, the CM and devs haven't done enough though because a lot of us felt so desperate due to lack of communication on the devs that we had to resort to sarcastic humor to get our point across that DR badly needed to be tweaked. And even after the "DR is the best expansion ever" campaign, the devs still have not properly fixed stf's.
TBH, I give up. Let PWE's board of directors and CEO sort out this mess because Al Rivera continues to isolate himself from reality and from criticism, both the destructive and constructive kinds. I've even begun to wonder whether or not Al is actively ignoring criticism about game direction from even within his own ranks but it's impossible to know for sure if that's what's been going on.
Let me just say this: I have never seen such poor communication from the devs and the forum community so systematically ignored by the same in all 4 years that I've played STo. You keep isolating yourselves from any kind of criticism and STo is going to continue to hurt as a community and as a game.
I found it it a considerable inconvenience and there were a few occasions when I felt I'd really screwed over my team when I dropped into a queue with no tray but I don't feel it made the game completely unplayable.
The devs were working on a solution to the tray issue; No, it still may not be perfect but that's the nature of the beast trying to sort out bugs in a persistent game. Ongoing efforts to rectify the deficiency are contrary to your suggestion but you have a penchant for hyperbole.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
It's a very well balanced and accurate review. I know you & I haven't interacted but I just thought I'd say I enjoy your contributions - keep it up!
Free Tibet!
Or ... it can be interpreted as devide and conquer .
After all when we all QQ about our own pet peeves , we're all the more easily ignored as the "minority with minority's issues" .
It's only when we speak with one voice that says "we're not happy now" , that's when we're referred to as "hurtful" .
And quite honestly , coming here and looking for "normal" feedback almost 3 months since DR debuted just highlighted the one thing the Dev's quite possibly didn't do for the last 3 months: making a list of player issues, concerns and requests .
I have a hard time giving the devs the benefit of the doubt when coincidentally they were selling load outs when this bug really started to rear it's ugly head and how loadouts were the only and still are the only workaround. How convenient...stop being so naive.
In my estimation, the chances of a dev reading, with a mind open to criticism, threads outside the Tribble- and bug-reporting-forums are negligible. Even inside the aforementioned forums chances of your complaint not falling on deaf ears seem very low.
Also, regarding the planned releases, it seems cryptic still did not learn their lessons, so it should be time to have even more signatures that are even more hurtful!
Is that your way of volunteering for the position? Send your resume together with pinup to our board of directors. Does it matter that i am the only one in the board of directors?
I really like your sig and want to make myself something similar. I'm just not sure which captain I should showcase.
i'm insulted to, not by you, but by devs. and now what?
part and parts are address on the forums gazillion of times, 3 months later, more or less no budge. if it is bothering them, then it is doing the job that was intended.
Okay, you're right... My signature is wrong, DR is NOT the best expansion ever.
I will change it. Maybe something about how the "STO is not only healthy but is growing"
All I'll say to that is: if there's a will, there's a way .
If my dry humor was too dry for you , have some ice .
... I made my point in the followup section below by holding up a virtual pencil ...
My paintnet/artrage skills are pretty pitiful so I'll have to do some more learning before I can manage that
100% this ^
No one is hampering anyone's freedom of speech on this, but with freedom of speech comes responsibility. If you want the devs to tune you out, then sure, run those signatures, but if you want the devs to pay attention then run something constructive like leviathan's signature. If cryptic hurt you so much that you feel rage, then personally I would seek professional help.
Would be sad if that were the case. Memes are fun.
When certain claims appear ludicrous, or simply funny to people, chances are a meme for it is in the works.
I respectfully disagree with him: it's in the specifics when things tend to get nasty. Memes, on the other hand, are just fun. :P
This isnt meant to be snide or rude, but the players/customers, found a way to be heard! Instead of crying and telling for people to be respectful and go back to work quietly. Maybe this is a good sign what they are doing, means what your serving up or refusing to serve needs to be relooked at...especially in the PR dept. We are here spending time and money at your diner. If the customers complain...listen to them, if they begin to make fun, release you must not be doing something right. U cant blame the customer for bad food or service when it happens, YOU, not the CUSTOMER have to change! That smug attitude of (we are star wars, the customer will do anything to play) nearly drove tor out of the mmo market, they adapted a bit. Now their customer service and reliable content are spot on and they are making money again. because they changed...a customer who enjoys whats on his plate gets to have it his way, is a happy spending customer that tells his friends...good things...even burger king knows this! =O.o= look smirk/geko, this game has fun aspects, it has potential to be more then a fast food casino, u would make more money if you made it more then a grind and buy. i didnt finish the new content yet since your xp is cut down to a 3rd of what it normally was, it didnt need to be that way. patrol fillers and xp penalties after L62 mean your just delaying the player for lack of content ideas, you should of just ran a normal storyline and only went to L55. it would of given u a chance to come up and adapt your next season with L60 cap. The signatures are a good idea, it tells whats on our minds and offers whats on the customers mind, take it as feedback and not an offense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NF9_SGjyVI
some memes were derogatory, some sowed inappropriate and fowl language, some showed the devs as hitlar, and some even were x-rated. None of those were playful.
Also, saying DR sucks means everything in DR sucks, which includes all the acting, the story, the ships/powers, everything when most people are just upset at the grind and nerfed dilithium. Focusing has a better chance of getting the devs to pay attention rather than just saying every bit of their work sucks when a lot of it doesn't.
Or it can be "Delta Rising is the best expancion ever and the players love it. And beacose of that, STO is not only healthy but is growing"
LMAO.. cryptic..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thought I'd test out the new sig phrase...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
While I do agree to an extent with the other points coupaholic makes, this is the one I most connect with. As well as the sentiment, "the sig stays."
If the Devs want me to list SPECIFIC problems I have with DR, or at least wouldn't mind if I put those complaints into a sig, then I may just do that.
DR wasn't a complete failure, but there is enough wrong with it that MY overall impression of it is a negative one.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
Thanks, i will keep my signature until XP is "un-nerfed".
Alright, I never said people can't have their signatures. You're welcome to have any sig you want so long as it doesn't violate the forum rules.
What I said, was that, IMHO, the "Best Expansion Ever" signatures were grating, and a deterrent for more Dev interaction. As a protest, they don't specify what the protest is about, and at the end of the day, I don't believe they are accomplishing anything (if, indeed, they are meant to accomplish anything in the first place).
For those saying that we can't take criticism:
Again, again, again. . . again.
Negative comments, criticism, your opinions, etc. are all TOTALLY FINE! Please keep posting them. Tell us what we're doing wrong. But tell us HOW you think it could be better.
This is something that comes up very often within the art department. Another environment artist coming to my desk, telling me, "That looks like TRIBBLE." doesn't help. Telling me, "That looks like TRIBBLE, it would be better if you did X." does help.
IMO, the "Best Expansion Ever" signatures fall into the former category.
For those saying I should grow up/get thicker skin:
Again, these are just MY personal feelings. I cannot help what I feel. Are you really telling me that I should feel something different than I do? I'm not telling you NOT to feel the way you do about Cryptic/DR/Whatever. I'm just explaining my thoughts about HOW to express those feelings.
For those saying that the sigs are not complaining about MY work:
Like it or not, we are a team. A team I've been on and working with for 3 years. As such, when you complain about Delta Rising, an expansion I worked very hard on, I can't help but feel some of that heat. That doesn't mean I don't understand that your complaints are mostly leveled at other departments, but the Expansion is still a product that was touched by many hands, including my own.
For those saying it's "Just a joke.":
I see this as someone making a racist joke. Someone says something offensive, and everyone in the group except one guy laughs. Sure, it was clearly funny to 90% of those who heard the joke. But that doesn't mean that the feelings of the one guy who felt that the joke was poking fun AT him, are invalid. It's still a racist joke. It may be funny to most, but that doesn't mean it's going to be funny to all, and it certainly doesn't mean it's right.
As that one guy, I can tell you, the joke is not funny.
One last thought. It's interesting to me how many different views have been expressed on the "purpose" of these signatures. I've heard that they are a protest. I've heard that they're just a joke. I've heard that they are intended to be hurtful. I've heard that they are not intended to be hurtful.