Most new players brought in by Delta Rising are probably using Arc since everything on the site directs you to use Arc, not Steam... Soo, results inconclusive, even if definitely not totally meaningless.
proves: more ppl came back or joined the game when LoR was launched than with DR
so whats the best expansion now huh?
Proof isn't a word you should be throwing around there. If you prove something you have eliminated the possiblity for an alternative to be true. See. a mathematical proof, there it is in a defniite state and assuming for the moment an error in calculation hasn't been made it will continue to be true for as long as the universe exists (unless there's a radical rethink in physics.) In the more practical sciences we don't like using the word proof, because in most situations you aren't capable of reaching the necessary 100% level of confidence for the word to mean anything. You don't prove a hypothesis, you support it (even if your evidence brings your CL up to something like 99.999999999999999999999999999999999%), and this is one of the points you have to repeat most in freshmen level bio-courses given how often the word "proof" gets bastardized in popular culture.
So what have you done here? We'll you've supported a hypothesis using one part of a data set (STO population figures). The problem for you though is that cryptic has the whole data set. You can try to second guess them with steam but, as an observer, I'm more likely to believe them than you given that your data is definitely less comprehensive. Plus you have to also argue in order to maintain your point that cryptic is lying about their numbers (a separate discussion and one not capable of definite proof without the data you lack in the first place) while all one needs to do to call your claim into doubt is just point out what it is you are in fact using for data. The most parsimonious explanation is that you, not cryptic, is in error. Though you may feel strongly about your hypothesis you haven't the argumentive weight to make your case to anyone except those would take, at face value, the other implictation that Cryptic is nothing more than a pack of greedy, untrustworthy, TRIBBLE....and that's not a point that's at all open for reasoned discussion.
And with that you're not subjecting a hypothesis to critical tests in order to try to assess just what, in all reasonable probabilities, is going on. You're data mining for a presumption.
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proves: more ppl came back or joined the game when LoR was launched than with DR
so whats the best expansion now huh?
proves: with the release of DR the palyernumber increased from ~3000 to ~ 5400
and since then to now dropped to ~2400 so in fact less then before the release
this is not counting the players just logging in to doff and R&D
so I guess the statement STO is not healthy but growing does not mean the number of palyers but the money income right?
edit: STO is in the TOP 100 most played games of steam list number 92 or so
thats the same TRIBBLE used to justify DR and how everyone sarcastically refers to everyone loving it. steam statistics prove nothing and never will because its not an accurate representation of the game population as a whole on the active side.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
All it shows is trends nothing more. It shows when Events or major patches are added to the game. All the data shows is the maximum amount of players logged in at the same time through Steam for a particular day or the number of players that are currently playing through Steam depending on which scale you use. It doesn't give the important data of how many players logged into STO for that day or for how long they played. If a particular day shows 1,000 players for that day, then 20,000 players could have logged in with the majority doing Crafting, Reputation Projects, and Doffing so spent only 15 minutes total in STO for that day.
thats the same TRIBBLE used to justify DR and how everyone sarcastically refers to everyone loving it. steam statistics prove nothing and never will because its not an accurate representation of the game population as a whole on the active side.
Please go take a statistics course and come back when you can explain in your own words everything that is wrong with that statement. The Steam numbers are large enough to be a perfectly reasonable survey sample.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I believe it's accurate, but I don't need Steam to tell me that the player numbers have dropped.
Anyone who plays regularly or is in a large fleet has seen the exodus. I can verify the Steam numbers by simply logging in and seeing how many fleet mates are online or how many ships I see in Sector Space.
The game is not dead by any means, but it's obviously dropped below Pre DR Levels, which sucks. :mad:
You guys have ALL wrong, very WRONG if I may said.
Cryptic does not see the success of a expancion, or a season by the numbers of players or the numbers of times that a player log in. They see it on how many whales waste their money on the game.
Remember the DR pack? MANY whales buy it even one month before the expancion came out. They buy it with out even know what what inside beacose they are whales. I can bet thay made a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of money on the whales this expancion... a LOOOOOT of money.
And remember this, whales do not care about the dil sink, beacose they can make all the dil they want buying zen.. so I guess whale population is the same.
- about 40 story missions (2 of which being tutorials that convinced the devs to redo the federation tutorial)
- a new adventure zone
- a new reputation
- the usual lock box addon
- the trait revamp
- a new faction
- the Klingon faction finally getting finished leveling wise
- new enemies
- warp cores
- over 18 new ships
- new stfs
And Delta Rising got
- 21 story missions
- 6 patrol missions
- a new reputation
- a new adventure zone
- the usual lock box addon
- the upgrade system
- new enemies
- 10 new ships
- a new boff type
- specializations
- new stfs
- altering the ques
So Delta Rising had less story, more of a chore to level to access that story, fewer ships, and more systems to make people play longer. And it basically killed most of the ques
Honestly outside of the story missions wasn't that wowed by Delta Rising.
LoR introduced a new race and early missions along with some late game stuff and was done to attract new players or returning players who wished to play the new race.
DR introduced mainly end game missions and as such not meant to attract new players but to give existing end gamers a goal to reach.
Other than the fact that steam players are only a proportion of the games population, the data given seem to support the aims of the two releases in question.
The charts also prove that Steam users prefer indie games like KSP and Terraria over STO.
Of course they don't.
One thing people are overlooking, is that Steam will host a different subset of the market than the other launchers. Good or bad, I'm not sure..
I'd argue that no Steam players are just Trek fans, and people that only play STO because its Trek do not launch from Steam.
The Steam base is also more likely to pay for their games than a casual F2P, remember that the vast majority of F2Pers are there because its free, they don't pay ever to play. Its been a couple years but several games have released stats on the percentage of people that ever pay into a F2P game, and it was far less than 10%.
It also means it is unlikely that the massive drop has anything to do all those people trying to pay and getting screwed over by the PWE security system.
I'd argue that no Steam players are just Trek fans, and people that only play STO because its Trek do not launch from Steam.
Ahem. /10chars
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
That's one of the most ridiculous and inaccurate over generalizations I have heard in a long time.
How so.
I'm not saying people playing on Steam aren't Trek fans. I'm saying people playing on Steam are not JUST Trek fans. Nobody loaded up Steam just to launch STO and nothing else, it doesn't make any sense..
How so.
I'm not saying people playing on Steam aren't Trek fans. I'm saying people playing on Steam are not JUST Trek fans. Nobody loaded up Steam just to launch STO and nothing else, it doesn't make any sense..
It would appear that Starsword disagrees with you.
On the other tentacle, the Venn diagram of Steam users and STO players is certainly not inclusive; there are quite a few using the original launcher, and apparently not a few who use Arc. Analyzing game population via Steam will not give accurate results.
One thing people are overlooking, is that Steam will host a different subset of the market than the other launchers. Good or bad, I'm not sure..
I'd argue that no Steam players are just Trek fans, and people that only play STO because its Trek do not launch from Steam.
The Steam base is also more likely to pay for their games than a casual F2P, remember that the vast majority of F2Pers are there because its free, they don't pay ever to play. Its been a couple years but several games have released stats on the percentage of people that ever pay into a F2P game, and it was far less than 10%.
It also means it is unlikely that the massive drop has anything to do all those people trying to pay and getting screwed over by the PWE security system.
What did I say?
I said that Steam Players prefer Indies over STO.
Also, I have watched loads of TOS, TNG, DS9, and all of Voyager, a long with most of the movies. And I run STO through Steam.
And, Steam is still "happily" hosting STO, along with sales for ingame items.
But those people would not have shown in previous samples either.
The only way the data is invalid is if the people who used to launch STO from Steam still play the game but no longer use Steam to launch it.
And all of that In a time period; we are looking at an exodus from steam to not steam in the time since DR came out, if you are looking to see how many peeps DR scared off.
proves: more ppl came back or joined the game when LoR was launched than with DR
so whats the best expansion now huh?
proves: with the release of DR the palyernumber increased from ~3000 to ~ 5400
and since then to now dropped to ~2400 so in fact less then before the release
this is not counting the players just logging in to doff and R&D
so I guess the statement STO is not healthy but growing does not mean the number of palyers but the money income right?
edit: STO is in the TOP 100 most played games of steam list number 92 or so
Isn't one slight flaw with this.......... what about the people who don't use steam to log into STO, how do you get these numbers in the equation you can have five different sources out there and then just go to one his head as a definitive answer your be your statistics would be flawed... Shouldn't be you should find the one then move on to the few then move on to the many and then compile your numbers............. I mean anything else would be simply.......... illogical ?
sorry, I just cant see what you are seeing in these figures, sure there is a slight difference but not enough to prove that players are leaving sto in droves as I think you are trying to imply here.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
me too I have that pre-order lol and I still have the software, but moved to arc.
NOTHING.
Nothing more to say, Jesus.
XDDD your arguments are so NOTHING
Proof isn't a word you should be throwing around there. If you prove something you have eliminated the possiblity for an alternative to be true. See. a mathematical proof, there it is in a defniite state and assuming for the moment an error in calculation hasn't been made it will continue to be true for as long as the universe exists (unless there's a radical rethink in physics.) In the more practical sciences we don't like using the word proof, because in most situations you aren't capable of reaching the necessary 100% level of confidence for the word to mean anything. You don't prove a hypothesis, you support it (even if your evidence brings your CL up to something like 99.999999999999999999999999999999999%), and this is one of the points you have to repeat most in freshmen level bio-courses given how often the word "proof" gets bastardized in popular culture.
So what have you done here? We'll you've supported a hypothesis using one part of a data set (STO population figures). The problem for you though is that cryptic has the whole data set. You can try to second guess them with steam but, as an observer, I'm more likely to believe them than you given that your data is definitely less comprehensive. Plus you have to also argue in order to maintain your point that cryptic is lying about their numbers (a separate discussion and one not capable of definite proof without the data you lack in the first place) while all one needs to do to call your claim into doubt is just point out what it is you are in fact using for data. The most parsimonious explanation is that you, not cryptic, is in error. Though you may feel strongly about your hypothesis you haven't the argumentive weight to make your case to anyone except those would take, at face value, the other implictation that Cryptic is nothing more than a pack of greedy, untrustworthy, TRIBBLE....and that's not a point that's at all open for reasoned discussion.
And with that you're not subjecting a hypothesis to critical tests in order to try to assess just what, in all reasonable probabilities, is going on. You're data mining for a presumption.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
growing income and healthy = not dead
as many ppl have said before in this topic this numbers are most likely mirroring
the whole data +/- some%
that simple math kids learn at school wether some want to believe or not
LoR is the best expansion ever HA
unless 2015 they bring disconnected borg faction ofc
thats the same TRIBBLE used to justify DR and how everyone sarcastically refers to everyone loving it. steam statistics prove nothing and never will because its not an accurate representation of the game population as a whole on the active side.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Please go take a statistics course and come back when you can explain in your own words everything that is wrong with that statement. The Steam numbers are large enough to be a perfectly reasonable survey sample.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Anyone who plays regularly or is in a large fleet has seen the exodus. I can verify the Steam numbers by simply logging in and seeing how many fleet mates are online or how many ships I see in Sector Space.
The game is not dead by any means, but it's obviously dropped below Pre DR Levels, which sucks. :mad:
Cryptic does not see the success of a expancion, or a season by the numbers of players or the numbers of times that a player log in. They see it on how many whales waste their money on the game.
Remember the DR pack? MANY whales buy it even one month before the expancion came out. They buy it with out even know what what inside beacose they are whales. I can bet thay made a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of money on the whales this expancion... a LOOOOOT of money.
And remember this, whales do not care about the dil sink, beacose they can make all the dil they want buying zen.. so I guess whale population is the same.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well lets see in LoR we got
- about 40 story missions (2 of which being tutorials that convinced the devs to redo the federation tutorial)
- a new adventure zone
- a new reputation
- the usual lock box addon
- the trait revamp
- a new faction
- the Klingon faction finally getting finished leveling wise
- new enemies
- warp cores
- over 18 new ships
- new stfs
And Delta Rising got
- 21 story missions
- 6 patrol missions
- a new reputation
- a new adventure zone
- the usual lock box addon
- the upgrade system
- new enemies
- 10 new ships
- a new boff type
- specializations
- new stfs
- altering the ques
So Delta Rising had less story, more of a chore to level to access that story, fewer ships, and more systems to make people play longer. And it basically killed most of the ques
Honestly outside of the story missions wasn't that wowed by Delta Rising.
So yeah Legacy of Romulus > Delta Rising.
LoR introduced a new race and early missions along with some late game stuff and was done to attract new players or returning players who wished to play the new race.
DR introduced mainly end game missions and as such not meant to attract new players but to give existing end gamers a goal to reach.
Other than the fact that steam players are only a proportion of the games population, the data given seem to support the aims of the two releases in question.
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Except all it did was add 3 end game missions and turn most of the ques into ghost towns.
Besides they were already doing that when adding reps with the seasons, so I don't see the point of having an entire expansion devoted to it.
Of course they don't.
One thing people are overlooking, is that Steam will host a different subset of the market than the other launchers. Good or bad, I'm not sure..
I'd argue that no Steam players are just Trek fans, and people that only play STO because its Trek do not launch from Steam.
The Steam base is also more likely to pay for their games than a casual F2P, remember that the vast majority of F2Pers are there because its free, they don't pay ever to play. Its been a couple years but several games have released stats on the percentage of people that ever pay into a F2P game, and it was far less than 10%.
It also means it is unlikely that the massive drop has anything to do all those people trying to pay and getting screwed over by the PWE security system.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Ahem. /10chars
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
That's one of the most ridiculous and inaccurate over generalizations I have heard in a long time.
How so.
I'm not saying people playing on Steam aren't Trek fans. I'm saying people playing on Steam are not JUST Trek fans. Nobody loaded up Steam just to launch STO and nothing else, it doesn't make any sense..
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
The only way the data is invalid is if the people who used to launch STO from Steam still play the game but no longer use Steam to launch it.
On the other tentacle, the Venn diagram of Steam users and STO players is certainly not inclusive; there are quite a few using the original launcher, and apparently not a few who use Arc. Analyzing game population via Steam will not give accurate results.
What did I say?
I said that Steam Players prefer Indies over STO.
Also, I have watched loads of TOS, TNG, DS9, and all of Voyager, a long with most of the movies. And I run STO through Steam.
And, Steam is still "happily" hosting STO, along with sales for ingame items.
And all of that In a time period; we are looking at an exodus from steam to not steam in the time since DR came out, if you are looking to see how many peeps DR scared off.
Isn't one slight flaw with this.......... what about the people who don't use steam to log into STO, how do you get these numbers in the equation you can have five different sources out there and then just go to one his head as a definitive answer your be your statistics would be flawed... Shouldn't be you should find the one then move on to the few then move on to the many and then compile your numbers............. I mean anything else would be simply.......... illogical ?
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.