I would quote people but all I'd end up doing is cutting them down for the posts being too long, so here's my point.
Firstly, stop making up stuff I've supposedly implied. At no point did I say that it has to be a Jeremy Paxman style interview where you just hammer away until you get a proper answer. Anyone who listens and has half a brain will be able to work out if the answers are proper or not. This one is mostly aimed at meimeitoo, though frankly you also evaded my point that so long as he claims to represent the community he by extension makes himself accountable to them.
Second, if anyone actually bothered to read what I'd said the answer to "What would I change" is actually in my previous posts, and that is to do research. Elijah constantly comes across as having little idea what is going on in-game beyond the superficial, and I'll be honest if they did that then the questions put to the devs in a more "The patch notes said X would happen but from our research it would seem Y is actually the case, which has caused Z...." I would find that a lot more acceptable, and it would ring a bell with people that they're actually taking issues seriously.
That can be done, and if they evade the question you can push a bit, not Jeremy Paxman style like I said, and which everyone seems to think I was saying when I said something different, I almost feel like quoting myself about people never reading valid points.
As I said though I'm more than happy to help with that so long as it isn't then twisted into something it isn't. That's hardly bad of me to do if I'm willing to make that commitment, I don't see how anyone can really have a go at me for being willing to do that, and I find it quite rich that people are complaining that P1 could be better then attempt to slap down someone willing to do just that. :rolleyes:
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
I can understand where a lot of people are coming from. From all the podcasts I've listened to. And the 200th episode stands out more than anything else. It does seem that p1 beats around the bush more often than not. But no more than the question and answer threads that smirk started doing.
Maybe it's about time direct questions started being asked. Then again all this wouldn't be kicking off now. If the Devs actually gave direct answers to issues instead of trying to hide everything with smoke, mirrors and double talk. As for the fear of losing access to the Devs, come on really after the PR fiasco surrounding delta rising and all the brown stuff that hit the fan with it.
I'd have thought that the Devs would have at least tried to put the p1 podcasts to use. And get some of these players that have turned on them back on side. I'm no white knight of cryptic hell I've downright condemned many if not all of the changes they've made this year but ill gladly give them credit where credit is due. But since they seemingly constantly ignore the majority of the player base on a large number of issues. I've got no faith in them anymore and my faith in p1 to represent the community is starting to dwindle aswell.
My experiences from the few times I've gotten to be the interviewer is that If they're evasive and you gently prod them... they won't get mad and leave, but you still won't get anything. It's usually a way of talking around something without directly saying "I can't tell you"
For the record , I have no problem with a direct "I can't tell you" , I prefer it actually to roundabout double talk .
Geko was asked about the 5th anniversary by P1 , and apart from admitting that a new FE was coming , that was his answer .
Nothing's stopping people from posting in this thread questions that they would like to have asked. I'm sure that if Elijah thinks it's worth asking he'll consider it.
That is not a fair answer and you know it .
How was anyone supposed to know Thomas was going to be on to ask questions about the Pathfinder for example .
Or UI questions .
Or his transition from UI to ship art .
I'm not trying to accuse P1 here , but our questions were not solicited .
Well, I was specifically thinking of things that had been mentioned as "tough" questions that no one wanted to ask in interviews. Such as "Why does Cryptic hate the Galaxy" or "Why does Cryptic favor the Feds so much?" etc.... Sure there are many people who would love a good answer to those, but... it's not the sort of thing you can just toss onto the table even if you phrase it politely.
If (as you admit) many players want something answered , then it's just a question of phrasing it in a passable manner .
"Fed sells" -- that was the sum of previous Fed oriented bias, and perhaps it's worth being repeated since it has been a while since that was said , for the sake of newer players .
It could be followed up with a "pressing question" like "Rom sell too ... ?" and see what you get from that .
The Galaxy issue ... well that could be approached from an interior update question , that could be followed up with a "is it possible that we might also see a stats update when the interior gets looked at ?" , or something like that .
In professional interviews , sometimes a "leading question" is used to get closer to the actual topic you may want to discuss .
Depending on the Devs answer (tone , not just substance), the podcaster can decide if the second question is worth pursuing .
But just throwing your hands up in the air , saying that "well that can't be asked , because of X" -- that's just burying the chance for both interaction and results .
Self censorship has to have limits too .
I like how you describe these sorts of leading questions to steer an interview towards the types of information you're after, because the ones you posted avoid being antagonistic. I know others have suggested that sort of thing but I think this is one of the best examples of it that I've seen.
And agreed that a direct "I can't tell you" beats spinning a question to answer something else that wasn't asked.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Firstly, stop making up stuff I've supposedly implied. At no point did I say that it has to be a Jeremy Paxman style interview where you just hammer away until you get a proper answer.
Thing is, pushing 'just a little harder' all *sounds* very reasonable, unless you try and make it concrete. You either call BS, or you just accept the Dev's words.
Anyone who listens and has half a brain will be able to work out if the answers are proper or not.
Zactly! Oh wait, that was *my* point, actually. :P
This one is mostly aimed at meimeitoo, though frankly you also evaded my point that so long as he claims to represent the community he by extension makes himself accountable to them.
He *does* represent the community, in the sense that he invites people to submit questions, to be used in the show maybe. That's all. Nowhere did I see him claim he speaks for everyone. And just because he's kind enough to take questions does not make him 'accountable' to us, at all. He makes a podcast, and is willing to take our input. No more, no less.
Second, if anyone actually bothered to read what I'd said the answer to "What would I change" is actually in my previous posts, and that is to do research. Elijah constantly comes across as having little idea what is going on in-game beyond the superficial, and I'll be honest if they did that then the questions put to the devs in a more "The patch notes said X would happen but from our research it would seem Y is actually the case, which has caused Z...." I would find that a lot more acceptable, and it would ring a bell with people that they're actually taking issues seriously.
That is your perspective; and I respect that. I, for one, don't think he's clueless at all, though. What I do see, however, is that he simply lets the Devs speak. Like I said, that is in itself quite informative, even when I disagree with the Dev, or I think the Dev is purposely being daft. I don't think the 'My metrics vs. your metrics' game should be played out on the podcast, though. For one, because the Dev is there for a unique insight into *his* metrics.
Also, Geko isn't always wrong, evasive, or unreasonable. For example, in the previous podcast he was absolutely right saying the cost of upgrades should come down naturally, as a result of more and more people reaching lv 15 in R&D. Of course, I'd have rather heard him say "That 318k R&D XP for a Shield, we're gonna cut that in half right now." Doesn't mean he made no sense at all, though.
I guess we both simply listen to these podcasts with different expectations. Me? I just like to hear the Devs' insight, and get a glimpse of what they're thinking. Others may be looking more for an investigative report, where the reporter is trying to get to the bottom of things. I just don't think Elijah's podcast is the platform for the latter, is all.
Thing is, pushing 'just a little harder' all *sounds* very reasonable, unless you try and make it concrete. You either call BS, or you just accept the Dev's words.
Zactly! Oh wait, that was *my* point, actually. :P
He *does* represent the community, in the sense that he invites people to submit questions, to be used in the show maybe. That's all. Nowhere did I see him claim he speaks for everyone. And just because he's kind enough to take questions does not make him 'accountable' to us, at all. He makes a podcast, and is willing to take our input. No more, no less.
That is your perspective; and I respect that. I, for one, don't think he's clueless at all, though. What I do see, however, is that he simply lets the Devs speak. Like I said, that is in itself quite informative, even when I disagree with the Dev, or I think the Dev is purposely being daft. I don't think the 'My metrics vs. your metrics' game should be played out on the podcast, though. For one, because the Dev is there for a unique insight into *his* metrics.
Also, Geko isn't always wrong, evasive, or unreasonable. For example, in the previous podcast he was absolutely right saying the cost of upgrades should come down naturally, as a result of more and more people reaching lv 15 in R&D. Of course, I'd have rather heard him say "That 318k R&D XP for a Shield, we're gonna cut that in half right now." Doesn't mean he made no sense at all, though.
I guess we both simply listen to these podcasts with different expectations. Me? I just like to hear the Devs' insight, and get a glimpse of what they're thinking. Others may be looking more for an investigative report, where the reporter is trying to get to the bottom of things. I just don't think Elijah's podcast is the platform for the latter, is all.
You don't have to though, but it makes things a whole lot clearer if you do give a bit of a push, even if it is still denial it says a lot more if one has actually pushed more.
You mean like everyone has said? No one was debating that as far as I saw, I was just stating the obvious. Fact is everyone will see if they're being evasive or not, my point was that pushing them a bit more would add a clarity that you don't get with just letting it happen.
Well that does depend on your point of view. As I see it his wording was that he represents the community, no more than that and certainly no less. So from those words yes I do come to the conclusion that there is an accountability aspect. If you say you represent people then those people have every right to say if you're doing it right or not.
From what I've seen though, people's issue with the metrics is that they don't seem to be representative of what happens in game, now that could be down to the metrics being bad or its a result of evasiveness by the devs that make them sound that way, however I wasn't saying just about metrics vs metrics, but also the fact whether people find that fun factor in there somewhere, which I think we can both agree no amount of metrics will ever tell you.
Fair enough, though that's another perspective issue. By more people reaching level 15 in R&D I assume he meant the production of Superior Upgrades, which fair enough I can see them coming down. Yet a lot of people are more worried about the dilithium cost, and while jheinig took it upon himself to address that concern, it does depend on what you are more short of, dilithium or ec, and dilithium costs are usually the harder point to get across to the devs if you had to choose between them.
While I get what your saying in your final point there, I feel that P1 is a chance for the devs to address the player base, and while I don't support the devs using alternative media to talk to the player base it is of course better than no communication at all. I just think some changes could be made to firstly make P1 more acceptable in their coverage but also get better dev answers.
That said I'm also not ignoring the fact that a lot of the problem is the way the devs are, I mean just look at tribble testing communication for that, or lack thereof. However unless there is pressure to do better they never will.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Second, if anyone actually bothered to read what I'd said the answer to "What would I change" is actually in my previous posts, and that is to do research. Elijah constantly comes across as having little idea what is going on in-game beyond the superficial, and I'll be honest if they did that then the questions put to the devs in a more "The patch notes said X would happen but from our research it would seem Y is actually the case, which has caused Z...."
That's not an off-the-cuff question. If you tried asking that without forewarning, the devs would likely say nothing more substantial than "I might look into it later". IF I was to ask a question like that I would give the devs at least a week before the show started to formulate an answer. Why? Because even if they do come up with something on the spot, it'll be too incomplete to be useful.
How was anyone supposed to know Thomas was going to be on to ask questions about the Pathfinder for example .
Or UI questions .
Or his transition from UI to ship art .
As a counter question: How far in advance did Elijah know?
You have to assume that plays at least some part too.
How often is it not the developers choice to not have anything to say?
Between the amount of issues, possible solutions to them, having to re-locate resources and not open yourself up to a law-suit or corner yourself in other ways - how much wiggle room is there?
If you create maps, come on the podcast and some guy asks you what the official policy is for pvp modifiers in crafting - and you never even play the game, what can you say?
I can call the office and they wil schedule a meeting for next month, that is, if they deem it worthy spending time on?
Entertaining episode everyone, and thanks to Thomas for dropping by.
New home of the Romulan Republic.
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
Ugh. Pages and pages that basically amount to throwing stones at a volunteer podcast and arguing with each other, and people wonder why the Devs don't take the forums more seriously ...snip...
This is a serious issue with these forums in general.
As an example, stoleviathan99 (and many others) have provided very well written, well thought out feedback. Problem is, as you stated, pages and pages of arguing which in turn, why the Devs don't take the forums seriously.
If the trolling, fighting, raging, flaming, and everything else negative that could be remove from the forums, that would be freaking awesome, because basically now, we have well thought out feedback, being basically removed or ignored all together. So because a select few who are the loudest cause flaming, the many or all, gets punished as a result.
This thread wasn't all bad, there were a few sticking up for the OP with things got a little dicey, but it's been made out that it has...
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
There have been some valid points made in this thread. Hopefully people aren't so unprofessional that they'd write off valid issues just because some people have made silly comments.
If you can't deal with customers it's usually advisable to move to a role that isn't customer facing.
If you can't deal with customers it's usually advisable to move to a role that isn't customer facing.
If you can wrap your brain around the notion that you're NOT a customer here, but merely a person listening to a podcast you get for free, then maybe we'd see a whole lot less self-entitlement here.
If you can't wrap your brain around the notion that you're NOT a customer here, but merely a person listening to a podcast you get for free, then maybe we'd see a whole lot less self-entitlement here.
Funnily enough I was referring to bluegeek's comment about the devs ignoring forum feedback.
Funnily enough I was referring to bluegeek's comment about the devs ignoring forum feedback.
Well, that they often do. But if I read the man right, I think bluegeek's point was to say that the good folks at P1 have even less clout than Cryptic's direct customers. And I agree with that. Cryptic really owes P1 nothing (at least you could argue that they owe their customers *something*). If P1 makes it unpleasant for the Devs, then next time there's simply no show with Devs in it any more.
And, irony of ironies, bluegeek is a volunteer too. :P
Well as bluegeek was saying yesterday he hasn't read the posts or listen to podcasts.
As far as entitlement people rarely do something for nothing.
The people on the podcast might not be getting money but do you really, really have the impression they get out of bed in the morning in a self-sacrificing effort to improve your life?
They of course run it for their own sake and get a kick out of it - internet prestige, internet fame, attention etc. which is exactly what we are talking about here.
Them playing a different game, outside the game, outside the community the actual game is the whole premise of the complaints - people won't magically fall into line because you throw the word "entitlement" around randomly.
And simillar with the developers. They - of course - only come on IF and only IF it furthers their cause. You don't think advertising has any value? Where have you been since 1933?
Which is ALSO the premise of the complaint. That the developers act seflishly.
Through all of that the only who has a title that means anything, is not the forum moderator, the developer or podcaster, nah, it's the paying customer.
This is a serious issue with these forums in general.
As an example, stoleviathan99 (and many others) have provided very well written, well thought out feedback. Problem is, as you stated, pages and pages of arguing which in turn, why the Devs don't take the forums seriously.
If the trolling, fighting, raging, flaming, and everything else negative that could be remove from the forums, that would be freaking awesome, because basically now, we have well thought out feedback, being basically removed or ignored all together. So because a select few who are the loudest cause flaming, the many or all, gets punished as a result.
This thread wasn't all bad, there were a few sticking up for the OP with things got a little dicey, but it's been made out that it has...
I realize there's no way we'd get something quite so radical within the forum framework provided here.
But if I were looking for reduced signal to noise and had a bit of a budget to develop an original system, here's what I'd do:
Introduce post "likes", which many forums have. (I know, I know. We don't even have "report" buttons.)
And these "likes" would translate into permissions to create specially featured posts, creating a score of "likes" to "dislikes" based on likes from all forum posts.
The spotlight forum would allow images and let people speak on game topics.
You would need a certain number of net likes to post there. You would need more net likes to start a thread. The blog forum, in addition to have a minimum number of "likes" to post or start threads would also set posting frequency based on number of likes, starting at one per day.
People could like or dislike what you post there as well, adjusting your total.
The net result would be a "special community topics" forum where the posts, commenters, and frequency of posting ability is set by popularity of forum posts. (And you could get downgraded out of there if you get too many dislikes although it might only remove 1 net like for every 10 dislikes so as to avoid some of the potential for community censorship.)
Lower signal to noise ratio. Since anyone could issue likes or dislikes, the community would be voting on spokespeople in this way.
Now... The community could elevate constructive posters or negative posters. But because it would be specially featured posts by members of the community who generate popular posts, it would reflect the community and encourage types of feedback that the community wishes to push. (Even if a large fleet were to game that system, you could infer that it was representative of a large number of players' input.)
I realize there's no way we'd get something quite so radical within the forum framework provided here.
But if I were looking for reduced signal to noise and had a bit of a budget to develop an original system, here's what I'd do:
Introduce post "likes", which many forums have. (I know, I know. We don't even have "report" buttons.)
And these "likes" would translate into permissions to create specially featured posts, creating a score of "likes" to "dislikes" based on likes from all forum posts.
The spotlight forum would allow images and let people speak on game topics.
You would need a certain number of net likes to post there. You would need more net likes to start a thread. The blog forum, in addition to have a minimum number of "likes" to post or start threads would also set posting frequency based on number of likes, starting at one per day.
People could like or dislike what you post there as well, adjusting your total.
The net result would be a "special community topics" forum where the posts, commenters, and frequency of posting ability is set by popularity of forum posts. (And you could get downgraded out of there if you get too many dislikes although it might only remove 1 net like for every 10 dislikes so as to avoid some of the potential for community censorship.)
Lower signal to noise ratio. Since anyone could issue likes or dislikes, the community would be voting on spokespeople in this way.
Now... The community could elevate constructive posters or negative posters. But because it would be specially featured posts by members of the community who generate popular posts, it would reflect the community and encourage types of feedback that the community wishes to push. (Even if a large fleet were to game that system, you could infer that it was representative of a large number of players' input.)
Something to consider big time.
A few other gaming forums I visits have this feature. It helps. Some will even rank the players score so if they have a very low score (negative) then it might be just as well to ignore their posts etc.
But I think the best one I've seen is that it doesn't show the score of the post. Instead it'll either have nothing indicated, low rated, high rated. High rated would basically just give the post a different color, low rated would not be shown, but you have the option to still see it if you like. In order for it to be high or low rated, there needs to be a certain amount of votes, for example, you need a score of 8 in order to have it a high rating and a score of -8 for it to be low. A like is +1 and dislike is -1.
It's not perfect, nothing ever is, but IMO, it can really help clean up the forums and can put a little less stress on the forum mods.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
It is, when this entire thread is about badgering a couple of volunteers, and then laying in on bluegeek too, who happens to be... tada... a volunteer as well.
I like Bluegeek. It's nice to see that we have a moderator who actually plays the game.
All of the mods do, to some degree or another.
I've never hidden the fact that I am essentially a casual player with sharply limited discretionary time. I moderate, or don't moderate, based on free time or needing to take a break from something else. But I have played this game for a long time. I wasn't here at launch, but not too long after that. And I've been on the forums for as long as I've been playing.
On a slightly different topic:
As someone else hinted, no, I do not read dozens of threads and hundreds of posts every single day and do not always read a thread from one end to the other. And, correct, I did not listen to this last podcast and still haven't.
I find them to be longish and my attention is often split between the podcast and something else, so I miss details here and there. I listen from work or not at all, because I'd never get that much time at home to listen. Too busy defending the HQ from my four Weapons of Male Destruction.
But I do listen sometimes.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
BTW, you know the thing I brought up this morning? Not quite over. :-/
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I do not read dozens of threads and hundreds of posts every single day and do not always read a thread from one end to the other. And, correct, I did not listen to this last podcast and still haven't..
I think you definitely need to be recruited into the dev 'PR' team. You tell it like it is, you do not religiously follow every complaint, but you Do have an overall idea of what the community is not happy about - and give straight answers based upon the information that you have.
I think that kind of attitude would go far in placating many people.
I think you definitely need to be recruited into the dev 'PR' team.
They couldn't afford me as an employee. The value they get out of me as a volunteer is debatable.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Comments
Firstly, stop making up stuff I've supposedly implied. At no point did I say that it has to be a Jeremy Paxman style interview where you just hammer away until you get a proper answer. Anyone who listens and has half a brain will be able to work out if the answers are proper or not. This one is mostly aimed at meimeitoo, though frankly you also evaded my point that so long as he claims to represent the community he by extension makes himself accountable to them.
Second, if anyone actually bothered to read what I'd said the answer to "What would I change" is actually in my previous posts, and that is to do research. Elijah constantly comes across as having little idea what is going on in-game beyond the superficial, and I'll be honest if they did that then the questions put to the devs in a more "The patch notes said X would happen but from our research it would seem Y is actually the case, which has caused Z...." I would find that a lot more acceptable, and it would ring a bell with people that they're actually taking issues seriously.
That can be done, and if they evade the question you can push a bit, not Jeremy Paxman style like I said, and which everyone seems to think I was saying when I said something different, I almost feel like quoting myself about people never reading valid points.
As I said though I'm more than happy to help with that so long as it isn't then twisted into something it isn't. That's hardly bad of me to do if I'm willing to make that commitment, I don't see how anyone can really have a go at me for being willing to do that, and I find it quite rich that people are complaining that P1 could be better then attempt to slap down someone willing to do just that. :rolleyes:
Maybe it's about time direct questions started being asked. Then again all this wouldn't be kicking off now. If the Devs actually gave direct answers to issues instead of trying to hide everything with smoke, mirrors and double talk. As for the fear of losing access to the Devs, come on really after the PR fiasco surrounding delta rising and all the brown stuff that hit the fan with it.
I'd have thought that the Devs would have at least tried to put the p1 podcasts to use. And get some of these players that have turned on them back on side. I'm no white knight of cryptic hell I've downright condemned many if not all of the changes they've made this year but ill gladly give them credit where credit is due. But since they seemingly constantly ignore the majority of the player base on a large number of issues. I've got no faith in them anymore and my faith in p1 to represent the community is starting to dwindle aswell.
For the record , I have no problem with a direct "I can't tell you" , I prefer it actually to roundabout double talk .
Geko was asked about the 5th anniversary by P1 , and apart from admitting that a new FE was coming , that was his answer .
That is not a fair answer and you know it .
How was anyone supposed to know Thomas was going to be on to ask questions about the Pathfinder for example .
Or UI questions .
Or his transition from UI to ship art .
I'm not trying to accuse P1 here , but our questions were not solicited .
If (as you admit) many players want something answered , then it's just a question of phrasing it in a passable manner .
"Fed sells" -- that was the sum of previous Fed oriented bias, and perhaps it's worth being repeated since it has been a while since that was said , for the sake of newer players .
It could be followed up with a "pressing question" like "Rom sell too ... ?" and see what you get from that .
The Galaxy issue ... well that could be approached from an interior update question , that could be followed up with a "is it possible that we might also see a stats update when the interior gets looked at ?" , or something like that .
In professional interviews , sometimes a "leading question" is used to get closer to the actual topic you may want to discuss .
Depending on the Devs answer (tone , not just substance), the podcaster can decide if the second question is worth pursuing .
But just throwing your hands up in the air , saying that "well that can't be asked , because of X" -- that's just burying the chance for both interaction and results .
Self censorship has to have limits too .
And agreed that a direct "I can't tell you" beats spinning a question to answer something else that wasn't asked.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Thing is, pushing 'just a little harder' all *sounds* very reasonable, unless you try and make it concrete. You either call BS, or you just accept the Dev's words.
Zactly! Oh wait, that was *my* point, actually. :P
He *does* represent the community, in the sense that he invites people to submit questions, to be used in the show maybe. That's all. Nowhere did I see him claim he speaks for everyone. And just because he's kind enough to take questions does not make him 'accountable' to us, at all. He makes a podcast, and is willing to take our input. No more, no less.
That is your perspective; and I respect that. I, for one, don't think he's clueless at all, though. What I do see, however, is that he simply lets the Devs speak. Like I said, that is in itself quite informative, even when I disagree with the Dev, or I think the Dev is purposely being daft. I don't think the 'My metrics vs. your metrics' game should be played out on the podcast, though. For one, because the Dev is there for a unique insight into *his* metrics.
Also, Geko isn't always wrong, evasive, or unreasonable. For example, in the previous podcast he was absolutely right saying the cost of upgrades should come down naturally, as a result of more and more people reaching lv 15 in R&D. Of course, I'd have rather heard him say "That 318k R&D XP for a Shield, we're gonna cut that in half right now." Doesn't mean he made no sense at all, though.
I guess we both simply listen to these podcasts with different expectations. Me? I just like to hear the Devs' insight, and get a glimpse of what they're thinking. Others may be looking more for an investigative report, where the reporter is trying to get to the bottom of things. I just don't think Elijah's podcast is the platform for the latter, is all.
You don't have to though, but it makes things a whole lot clearer if you do give a bit of a push, even if it is still denial it says a lot more if one has actually pushed more.
You mean like everyone has said? No one was debating that as far as I saw, I was just stating the obvious. Fact is everyone will see if they're being evasive or not, my point was that pushing them a bit more would add a clarity that you don't get with just letting it happen.
Well that does depend on your point of view. As I see it his wording was that he represents the community, no more than that and certainly no less. So from those words yes I do come to the conclusion that there is an accountability aspect. If you say you represent people then those people have every right to say if you're doing it right or not.
From what I've seen though, people's issue with the metrics is that they don't seem to be representative of what happens in game, now that could be down to the metrics being bad or its a result of evasiveness by the devs that make them sound that way, however I wasn't saying just about metrics vs metrics, but also the fact whether people find that fun factor in there somewhere, which I think we can both agree no amount of metrics will ever tell you.
Fair enough, though that's another perspective issue. By more people reaching level 15 in R&D I assume he meant the production of Superior Upgrades, which fair enough I can see them coming down. Yet a lot of people are more worried about the dilithium cost, and while jheinig took it upon himself to address that concern, it does depend on what you are more short of, dilithium or ec, and dilithium costs are usually the harder point to get across to the devs if you had to choose between them.
While I get what your saying in your final point there, I feel that P1 is a chance for the devs to address the player base, and while I don't support the devs using alternative media to talk to the player base it is of course better than no communication at all. I just think some changes could be made to firstly make P1 more acceptable in their coverage but also get better dev answers.
That said I'm also not ignoring the fact that a lot of the problem is the way the devs are, I mean just look at tribble testing communication for that, or lack thereof. However unless there is pressure to do better they never will.
My character Tsin'xing
You have to assume that plays at least some part too.
How often is it not the developers choice to not have anything to say?
Between the amount of issues, possible solutions to them, having to re-locate resources and not open yourself up to a law-suit or corner yourself in other ways - how much wiggle room is there?
If you create maps, come on the podcast and some guy asks you what the official policy is for pvp modifiers in crafting - and you never even play the game, what can you say?
I can call the office and they wil schedule a meeting for next month, that is, if they deem it worthy spending time on?
About 3 hours --- Towards the end of the work day on the East Coast.
My character Tsin'xing
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
This is a serious issue with these forums in general.
As an example, stoleviathan99 (and many others) have provided very well written, well thought out feedback. Problem is, as you stated, pages and pages of arguing which in turn, why the Devs don't take the forums seriously.
If the trolling, fighting, raging, flaming, and everything else negative that could be remove from the forums, that would be freaking awesome, because basically now, we have well thought out feedback, being basically removed or ignored all together. So because a select few who are the loudest cause flaming, the many or all, gets punished as a result.
This thread wasn't all bad, there were a few sticking up for the OP with things got a little dicey, but it's been made out that it has...
If you can't deal with customers it's usually advisable to move to a role that isn't customer facing.
Free Tibet!
If you can wrap your brain around the notion that you're NOT a customer here, but merely a person listening to a podcast you get for free, then maybe we'd see a whole lot less self-entitlement here.
Funnily enough I was referring to bluegeek's comment about the devs ignoring forum feedback.
Free Tibet!
Well, that they often do.
And, irony of ironies, bluegeek is a volunteer too. :P
As far as entitlement people rarely do something for nothing.
The people on the podcast might not be getting money but do you really, really have the impression they get out of bed in the morning in a self-sacrificing effort to improve your life?
They of course run it for their own sake and get a kick out of it - internet prestige, internet fame, attention etc. which is exactly what we are talking about here.
Them playing a different game, outside the game, outside the community the actual game is the whole premise of the complaints - people won't magically fall into line because you throw the word "entitlement" around randomly.
And simillar with the developers. They - of course - only come on IF and only IF it furthers their cause. You don't think advertising has any value? Where have you been since 1933?
Which is ALSO the premise of the complaint. That the developers act seflishly.
Through all of that the only who has a title that means anything, is not the forum moderator, the developer or podcaster, nah, it's the paying customer.
that's not Irony.
I realize there's no way we'd get something quite so radical within the forum framework provided here.
But if I were looking for reduced signal to noise and had a bit of a budget to develop an original system, here's what I'd do:
Introduce post "likes", which many forums have. (I know, I know. We don't even have "report" buttons.)
And these "likes" would translate into permissions to create specially featured posts, creating a score of "likes" to "dislikes" based on likes from all forum posts.
The spotlight forum would allow images and let people speak on game topics.
You would need a certain number of net likes to post there. You would need more net likes to start a thread. The blog forum, in addition to have a minimum number of "likes" to post or start threads would also set posting frequency based on number of likes, starting at one per day.
People could like or dislike what you post there as well, adjusting your total.
The net result would be a "special community topics" forum where the posts, commenters, and frequency of posting ability is set by popularity of forum posts. (And you could get downgraded out of there if you get too many dislikes although it might only remove 1 net like for every 10 dislikes so as to avoid some of the potential for community censorship.)
Lower signal to noise ratio. Since anyone could issue likes or dislikes, the community would be voting on spokespeople in this way.
Now... The community could elevate constructive posters or negative posters. But because it would be specially featured posts by members of the community who generate popular posts, it would reflect the community and encourage types of feedback that the community wishes to push. (Even if a large fleet were to game that system, you could infer that it was representative of a large number of players' input.)
Something to consider big time.
A few other gaming forums I visits have this feature. It helps. Some will even rank the players score so if they have a very low score (negative) then it might be just as well to ignore their posts etc.
But I think the best one I've seen is that it doesn't show the score of the post. Instead it'll either have nothing indicated, low rated, high rated. High rated would basically just give the post a different color, low rated would not be shown, but you have the option to still see it if you like. In order for it to be high or low rated, there needs to be a certain amount of votes, for example, you need a score of 8 in order to have it a high rating and a score of -8 for it to be low. A like is +1 and dislike is -1.
It's not perfect, nothing ever is, but IMO, it can really help clean up the forums and can put a little less stress on the forum mods.
It is, when this entire thread is about badgering a couple of volunteers, and then laying in on bluegeek too, who happens to be... tada... a volunteer as well.
Stick to sarcasm. Then I'll do irony.
Free Tibet!
All of the mods do, to some degree or another.
I've never hidden the fact that I am essentially a casual player with sharply limited discretionary time. I moderate, or don't moderate, based on free time or needing to take a break from something else. But I have played this game for a long time. I wasn't here at launch, but not too long after that. And I've been on the forums for as long as I've been playing.
On a slightly different topic:
As someone else hinted, no, I do not read dozens of threads and hundreds of posts every single day and do not always read a thread from one end to the other. And, correct, I did not listen to this last podcast and still haven't.
I find them to be longish and my attention is often split between the podcast and something else, so I miss details here and there. I listen from work or not at all, because I'd never get that much time at home to listen. Too busy defending the HQ from my four Weapons of Male Destruction.
But I do listen sometimes.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
BTW, you know the thing I brought up this morning? Not quite over. :-/
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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I think you definitely need to be recruited into the dev 'PR' team. You tell it like it is, you do not religiously follow every complaint, but you Do have an overall idea of what the community is not happy about - and give straight answers based upon the information that you have.
I think that kind of attitude would go far in placating many people.
They couldn't afford me as an employee. The value they get out of me as a volunteer is debatable.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek