Not that I buy them or anything, but won't this make XP boosts even more of a bad buy than they are already? With bigger numbers per kill, they'll burn out faster, but the finish line will be farther away than before.
Tomorrows patch:
* You will see more XP from NPCs
* It will require more XP to go up a level
It's a zero sum game.
In other words, their programmers gotta earn their paychecks doing what essentially amounts to...nothing? I sometimes wonder if Cryptic is really a game company, or a government bureaucracy with no Congressional oversight.
I'm going to be blunt, because that is probably the most valuable response in attempting to rebalance things. If this offends you, or my fellow players, I apologize as my intent is to provide an honest opinion of the progression brought about with Delta Rising. What follows is my own impression on the progression system, and should be taken as such.
I don't care anymore. Sure, that sounds all dramatic... but it's not, because I really don't give a TRIBBLE about leveling. The rate post-DR is so slow, and the progression itself is so wonky, that I really don't care what level I am. I'm someone that enjoys trying out different builds, factions, and playstyles... and Delta Rising simply does not promote that.
The main issue I have with the progression is the Specializations. These are designed to be horizontal progression as additional Primary and Secondary Specializations are added, granting additional options for combining with our base Professions. As implemented, however, they instead create an additional 35 pseudo-levels of progression to get a fully specced endgame captain to Level 60/Primary Specialization 30/Secondary Specialization 15 assuming players focus their Specialization Points. This would not have been such an issue with progression or NPC scaling if we had been granted 1 Specialization Point per level starting at level 16, as this would have made it possible for a max-level character to have filled one Primary and one Secondary Specialization each.
Instead, what Delta Rising actually added was not +10 to the level cap, but +60 levels of XP to grind. It's boring, and as a result I don't care that much about the Specializations, the fancy Intel Kit Modules and boff abilities, or even the Intel seating. I have no interest of grinding +60 more levels of XP just to stay competitive in PvP, so that portion of the game is no longer of interest to me either. The rate of progression basically means I presently disregard everything that was meant to make Delta Rising new and wonderful.
That includes the Episodes. Initially, the one thing that still interested me with Delta Rising was the new Episode arc, so that was what I dove into. I took a level 50 out into the Delta Quadrant and began the missions. Having kept up on the developments on Tribble, I knew that the progression was going to be slower, so I did everything on Elite, and for the most part that kept me leveling at a pace that allowed me to play through the Episodes directly. Then it didn't. I hit a point where the character suddenly failed to meet the minimum level for the next Episode despite playing solely on Elite and slotting all 20 doff assignments before logging out each night.
That was the point where I realized that in order to play Delta Rising I needed to not play Delta Rising. So, with this knowledge in hand I wandered off. To date, I have yet to bother to go back and finish the Episodes despite finally getting that character to 60 and gaining access to all of them. Unfortunately, I'd taken my time, played through the Episodes, and tried to make my way through the Episodes naturally rather than grinding merrily away in Tau Dewa (which I knew from Tribble feedback to be more efficient).
So, the day I decided to start leveling the Patrols were locked down, and a short time later players were banned or stripped of their progress for bothering to grind XP. While those that lost their progression eventually had it reinstated, it still means that players were punished for finding the most effective means of progression in the new system... and at the same time those of us that didn't do so lost out on any chance at a decent means of unlocking the Specializations. The problem was not that those players were leveling "17x" faster than everyone else (including me), it was that everyone else (including me) was leveling "17x" slower, a failing that lies squarely on the shoulders of whomever came up with the current progression scheme.
The bottom line is simple: I don't care about leveling, I don't care about the Specializations, I don't care about grinding... all because it doesn't feel rewarding anymore. The reason I still play is because I like my fellow players and I still rather like the content I do have access to, but the glacial progression and inaccessibility of all that should have made Delta Rising interesting is instead slowly whittling away at my interest overall. I'm getting bored, not because I have access to everything, but because I have access to nothing.
Suggestions:
Grant 1 Specialization Point per level starting at level 16. This would make scaling NPCs easier on your content designers and make PvP easier to balance, since it would make level more representative of a character's effective power. It truly mystifies me that it wouldn't occur to anyone that shoving 36 Active Specialization Points worth of progression into level 60 might create scaling issues, with a brand new level 60 struggling to cope with NPCs and a fully Specialized 60 laughing at how easy the content is.
If you can't/won't properly spread the Specialization Points across character level, at least increase the rate at which they unlock post-60. We aren't unlocking a full character level past that, the dilithium has been removed, so there's no reason to make the a single Specialization Point take that long to unlock. This would be nowhere as effective as the dispersal of Specialization Points across character level, though, since it would not help address scaling issues. It would, however, at least allow players access to those Specializations and make grinding PvE less of a slog for those that simply want to PvP.
Increase the rate of progression, especially where the Episodes are concerned, so that you aren't forced to not play Delta Rising if you want to play Delta Rising. Scaling Episode rewards with the difficulty you play that Episode on would also help.
Bottom line... whatever you're trying to do by slowing our leveling progress, it's not helping make the game more fun and it's making it harder for your content designers to balance what they're doing.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
So basically, they're just making certain XP rewards from things such as Doffing or Missions scale properly, rather than result in a lower net gain because the player was at a higher level than whatever the Doff Assignment or Mission was at.
However, to balance this, they will also INCREASE the XP required per level to ensure that the overall rate of leveling and gaining XP IS THE SAME.
RESULT: The Status Quo remains unchanged, just with the illusion of getting more XP.
Doesn't matter to me as I've all but ceased active grinding; just Rep Mark work/queues and Doffing. I can't be bothered to play through DR.
The pace of 50-60 was fine....the real issue was the alt killing 50 levels added on top of that via the specialization trees. That just feels like a slow slow slog and I wish they never added it.
You know, when there is one man among a thousand that doesn't understand something, he is stupid. But when there are a thousand men who don't understand what one is saying, who is stupid then?
But the post is essentially meaningless as far as I can tell. Basically, from what I gather, they just told us that they're changing something that will change nothing in the end.
Trust me, somebody would have noticed the numbers changing and might possibly draw the wrong conclusion about what was going on.
Aside from that, "anomalous numbers" are bad, from a programmer's point of view. It means something is not working as intended and will likely come back to bite them in a future update.
Sounds to me like they're proactively fixing something that they were fairly sure was going to cause a problem. Also sounds like they're intending to go to extra lengths to make sure they aren't taking away anything they've already given.
If they felt it was important enough to fix AND post about it, then it was an issue.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Depends on if the thousand men were educated enough to understand!
Ok, I jest. I'm sorry if that somehow offended anyone.
Let's simplify it even more:
Players will see bigger XP numbers consistent with their levels, and BELIEVE they're leveling up faster. This is from the correct XP scaling mentioned in the first part.
The REALITY is that ALL PLAYERS will still be advancing at almost the EXACT SAME RATE they are now, in terms of time spent/enemies killed/etc. This is from the increased number of XP required per level mentioned in the second part.
So the end result: PLAYERS WILL NOT LEVEL UP ANY FASTER THAN THEY ARE NOW. It's simply a perception change.
Trust me, somebody would have noticed the numbers changing and might possibly draw the wrong conclusion about what was going on.
Aside from that, "anomalous numbers" are bad, from a programmer's point of view. It means something is not working as intended and will likely come back to bite them in a future update.
Sounds to me like they're proactively fixing something that they were fairly sure was going to cause a problem. Also sounds like they're intending to go to extra lengths to make sure they aren't taking away anything they've already given.
If they felt it was important enough to fix AND post about it, then it was an issue.
I don't think the point he's making is about informing players of the changes. It's more the same point we're all making... why the hell are they 'increasing the xp gained, if they are increasing the xp required by the same amount'... That's what we're saying is pointless. Not telling the players, but what they are actually doing to the game. This post, this idea, and this entire game is turning into a terrible joke. It's like April 1st every day of the week since DR launched and we're all just waiting for April 2nd where the world starts making sense again.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I don't think the point he's making is about informing players of the changes. It's more the same point we're all making... why the hell are they 'increasing the xp gained, if they are increasing the xp required by the same amount'... That's what we're saying is pointless. Not telling the players, but what they are actually doing to the game. This post, this idea, and this entire game is turning into a terrible joke. It's like April 1st every day of the week since DR launched and we're all just waiting for April 2nd where the world starts making sense again.
Tomorrows patch:
* You will see more XP from NPCs
* It will require more XP to go up a level
It's a zero sum game.
I'm rather suspicious. Doing a 'zero sum game', just for the heck of it, is kinda pointless. There HAS to be a catch. I think it lies in the type of mission that will have NPC's pay out more XP; and those will conveniently be official DR storyline missons. So everything will remain equal, if you stay on the prescribed 'Everyone loves it!' path. Doing something else will cause you to feel the nerf. Mark my words.
If they felt it was important enough to fix AND post about it, then it was an issue.
The problem and the issue is that the grind is a horrible pain and that is not getting fixed. Instead, we have this "cheat" to calm the naif players nervs by putting larger numbers.
Frankly, the game stats point to them loosing players quickly after the DR release which means they screwed up, and yet, they insist on keeping the excessive grind in-place.
To the ones that claim all is good, try playing as a casual player. See how annoying it gets very quickly.
For the love of God, stop posting that stat page link. For one, it clearly states that the average player count is higher now than it has been in over a year which is the exact opposite of what you're trying to 'prove'. Secondly, it only tracks Steam players and not everybody uses Steam.
I'm not disagreeing that I don't think this launch has been as successful as they are claiming, but seriously stop with the link. :P
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I'm rather suspicious. Doing a 'zero sum game', just for the heck of it, is kinda pointless. There HAS to be a catch. I think it lies in the type of mission that will have NPC's pay out more XP; and those will conveniently be official DR storyline missons. So everything will remain equal, if you stay on the prescribed 'Everyone loves it!' path. Doing something else will cause you to feel the nerf. Mark my words.
The catch is that most non-forumites will see bigger XP numbers and THINK they're leveling up faster, only to have their hopes irrevocably broken by:
- Looking at the point requirements for each level and see the bigger number
- Find out by logging into the forums just to yell "XP RAISED! WE CAN NOW LEVEL UP FASTER!" and then kicked into the ground that it was just an illusion as multiple forumites correct them
- Other players in-game after making a fool of themselves yelling from the highest points of ESD/First City/New Romulus that that XP was buffed and leveling will be faster.
For the love of God, stop posting that stat page link. For one, it clearly states that the average player count is higher now than it has been in over a year which is the exact opposite of what you're trying to 'prove'. Secondly, it only tracks Steam players and not everybody uses Steam.
I'm not disagreeing that I don't think this launch has been as successful as they are claiming, but seriously stop with the link. :P
Do you even know how to reed the chart?
And dont tell us! I didnt know that not everyone enter by steam! Dhoooo.. I not even have steam.. but thouse numbers represent the bigger picture: DR got a big spike and now we are even we lower players than before. Even with a Dil event, lobi event, Crafting event and Mirror event, the game keeps lossing players.
Numbers do not lie, you can admit them or you can hide from them.. but they are still there.
I have a grip. However, it seems you're missing the point.
I was speaking about the majority in-game who will not be aware of what's going on because they don't always post all the notes to the main page, much less visit the forums for things like this which should get pinned to the front page for a week.
And it's guaranteed to happen. Just like players being unaware that they were earning Starship masteries faster until after they were told in-game. Or more notably, the fact that plenty of players still didn't know that they can now equip 3 Omnis; provided two of them are the KCB and Ancient AP Omni.
While developing the Delta Rising expansion for Star Trek Online, there was a lot of work that went into creating the reward schema for skill points and the requirements of skill points needed to advance up through level 60. Throughout the creation and testing of these additional levels, much of the teams attention was focused on whether or not the rewards and the progression felt correct. Unfortunately, since the release of Delta Rising, we have discovered some issues with our initial math that have caused some anomalous player facing numbers that we are now addressing in our upcoming update.
The major issue we discovered is that we built our rewards off of how much of a level we wanted a player to earn by completing a given piece of content, but did not take into account what the actual number that showed up in the rewards would be. The end result is that if you completed a mission or duty officer assignment at level 49 and then completed the same mission or duty officer assignment at level 51, you would see a smaller reward of skill points for the mission completed at a higher level. While this may sound like players were getting fewer rewards than they should, that has not been the case as the required amount of skill points needed to achieve each level was set with these values in mind.
The fix for this is that we will be updating the skill point rewards throughout the game so that they will at least maintain the values seen at earlier levels, or in the case of critter kills increase in skill point rewards as you increase in player level. In order to maintain the desired rate of progression we spent a lot of time fine tuning while developing Delta Rising the required amount of skill points for each player level will also go up.
While there are a lot of numbers changing, we have taken extra care to make sure that the speed at which players level up will remain the same as it is now. This means that if a player chooses to level up from level 51 to 52 using exclusively missions and it currently requires that they play 3 missions to do so, then after the update it will still take 3 missions to level up from 51 to 52 if you use them as your sole source of skill points. This is true for whatever method a player might choose for leveling up whether it is missions, duty officer assignments or critter kills.
We will furthermore ensure that every players current progression is maintained while these numbers are updated. If you are halfway between levels 52 and 53 now, you will remain halfway between levels 52 and 53 after the update even though the total amount of skill points to achieve level 52 has gone up and the required skill points youll need to earn in order to become level 53 has also gone up.
We are sorry to be making such drastic changes so far after launch. Unlike the other changes we are making to tune balance, this should be a one-time change.
Charles Gray
Lead Content Designer
Star Trek Online
Basically that wall of text is an attempt to try to justify the doffing xp stealth nerf so that people with many many alts would grind grind their new story missions if they wanted their alts to get all the available stuff assoicated with reps/specialization system.
Unfortunately I myself am not going to bother with that doing it on each and every character. It is so much of a grind where as D'angelo himself said that is boring when he was announced and yet he went back on what he said because instead of less grind its more of a grind. So as much of a loyal STO player as I have been over the years this was the last straw for me.
It's kinda funny, or maybe sad. So many people angry about slow progression past 50, and Cryptics only reaction is to shuffle around numbers - to test if they're not only angry, but also stupid. That's the spirit!
Good lord I think Cryptic hired a master at the art of double speak kudos to this dev's business professors that's some pro grade stuff. I can understand everyone's confusion as most of that post steps all over itself with contradiction. Given that we are thoroughly confused hopefully someone will come back and clarify before something is changed that will cause another forum burning.
Skill points already suck enough so if this is going to make things worse they should just step out and say it and take the flames that are coming at them.
I realize this is an internet forum, and therefore the silver lining exists solely to highlight the black cloud. That said, my take away is that there will be a few positives here. (Note: this is based solely upon assumptions stemming from the information presented. Take with a fist-sized grain of salt.)
The doff display/reward mismatch will be corrected. It will therefore be easier to judge time/reward and resource/reward levels for a given mission, instead of the current TRIBBLE shoot. Transparency and consistency of metrics is good for the end user.
Kobali Ground, and similar non-capped content, will no longer award 0 kill XP at 60. While Grover said that the XP gain rate won't change, that's literally impossible - going from 0 to any other positive integer always yields a greater degree of progression, no matter how far you move the end goal. Spec levels may not come any faster, but you will still now be able to progress via content that previously gave you nothing.
We're hearing about this now, rather than being blind-sided and getting a fifteen page WTF DID YOU DO flame thread next week with a buried dev response. Proactive is always good.
While the effect will be a net zero (not really; see above), it's still good for the dev side to be getting their ducks in a row. I'll save my displeasure for the really bad mechanics (BNP / APC behind the Advanced gate you're gearing for).
Comments
In other words, their programmers gotta earn their paychecks doing what essentially amounts to...nothing? I sometimes wonder if Cryptic is really a game company, or a government bureaucracy with no Congressional oversight.
I don't care anymore. Sure, that sounds all dramatic... but it's not, because I really don't give a TRIBBLE about leveling. The rate post-DR is so slow, and the progression itself is so wonky, that I really don't care what level I am. I'm someone that enjoys trying out different builds, factions, and playstyles... and Delta Rising simply does not promote that.
The main issue I have with the progression is the Specializations. These are designed to be horizontal progression as additional Primary and Secondary Specializations are added, granting additional options for combining with our base Professions. As implemented, however, they instead create an additional 35 pseudo-levels of progression to get a fully specced endgame captain to Level 60/Primary Specialization 30/Secondary Specialization 15 assuming players focus their Specialization Points. This would not have been such an issue with progression or NPC scaling if we had been granted 1 Specialization Point per level starting at level 16, as this would have made it possible for a max-level character to have filled one Primary and one Secondary Specialization each.
Instead, what Delta Rising actually added was not +10 to the level cap, but +60 levels of XP to grind. It's boring, and as a result I don't care that much about the Specializations, the fancy Intel Kit Modules and boff abilities, or even the Intel seating. I have no interest of grinding +60 more levels of XP just to stay competitive in PvP, so that portion of the game is no longer of interest to me either. The rate of progression basically means I presently disregard everything that was meant to make Delta Rising new and wonderful.
That includes the Episodes. Initially, the one thing that still interested me with Delta Rising was the new Episode arc, so that was what I dove into. I took a level 50 out into the Delta Quadrant and began the missions. Having kept up on the developments on Tribble, I knew that the progression was going to be slower, so I did everything on Elite, and for the most part that kept me leveling at a pace that allowed me to play through the Episodes directly. Then it didn't. I hit a point where the character suddenly failed to meet the minimum level for the next Episode despite playing solely on Elite and slotting all 20 doff assignments before logging out each night.
That was the point where I realized that in order to play Delta Rising I needed to not play Delta Rising. So, with this knowledge in hand I wandered off. To date, I have yet to bother to go back and finish the Episodes despite finally getting that character to 60 and gaining access to all of them. Unfortunately, I'd taken my time, played through the Episodes, and tried to make my way through the Episodes naturally rather than grinding merrily away in Tau Dewa (which I knew from Tribble feedback to be more efficient).
So, the day I decided to start leveling the Patrols were locked down, and a short time later players were banned or stripped of their progress for bothering to grind XP. While those that lost their progression eventually had it reinstated, it still means that players were punished for finding the most effective means of progression in the new system... and at the same time those of us that didn't do so lost out on any chance at a decent means of unlocking the Specializations. The problem was not that those players were leveling "17x" faster than everyone else (including me), it was that everyone else (including me) was leveling "17x" slower, a failing that lies squarely on the shoulders of whomever came up with the current progression scheme.
The bottom line is simple: I don't care about leveling, I don't care about the Specializations, I don't care about grinding... all because it doesn't feel rewarding anymore. The reason I still play is because I like my fellow players and I still rather like the content I do have access to, but the glacial progression and inaccessibility of all that should have made Delta Rising interesting is instead slowly whittling away at my interest overall. I'm getting bored, not because I have access to everything, but because I have access to nothing.
Suggestions:
Bottom line... whatever you're trying to do by slowing our leveling progress, it's not helping make the game more fun and it's making it harder for your content designers to balance what they're doing.
However, to balance this, they will also INCREASE the XP required per level to ensure that the overall rate of leveling and gaining XP IS THE SAME.
RESULT: The Status Quo remains unchanged, just with the illusion of getting more XP.
Doesn't matter to me as I've all but ceased active grinding; just Rep Mark work/queues and Doffing. I can't be bothered to play through DR.
Trust me, somebody would have noticed the numbers changing and might possibly draw the wrong conclusion about what was going on.
Aside from that, "anomalous numbers" are bad, from a programmer's point of view. It means something is not working as intended and will likely come back to bite them in a future update.
Sounds to me like they're proactively fixing something that they were fairly sure was going to cause a problem. Also sounds like they're intending to go to extra lengths to make sure they aren't taking away anything they've already given.
If they felt it was important enough to fix AND post about it, then it was an issue.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Ok, I jest. I'm sorry if that somehow offended anyone.
Let's simplify it even more:
Players will see bigger XP numbers consistent with their levels, and BELIEVE they're leveling up faster. This is from the correct XP scaling mentioned in the first part.
The REALITY is that ALL PLAYERS will still be advancing at almost the EXACT SAME RATE they are now, in terms of time spent/enemies killed/etc. This is from the increased number of XP required per level mentioned in the second part.
So the end result: PLAYERS WILL NOT LEVEL UP ANY FASTER THAN THEY ARE NOW. It's simply a perception change.
I don't think the point he's making is about informing players of the changes. It's more the same point we're all making... why the hell are they 'increasing the xp gained, if they are increasing the xp required by the same amount'... That's what we're saying is pointless. Not telling the players, but what they are actually doing to the game. This post, this idea, and this entire game is turning into a terrible joke. It's like April 1st every day of the week since DR launched and we're all just waiting for April 2nd where the world starts making sense again.
Because its a stealth nerf to Doffing xp
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
I'm rather suspicious. Doing a 'zero sum game', just for the heck of it, is kinda pointless. There HAS to be a catch. I think it lies in the type of mission that will have NPC's pay out more XP; and those will conveniently be official DR storyline missons. So everything will remain equal, if you stay on the prescribed 'Everyone loves it!' path. Doing something else will cause you to feel the nerf. Mark my words.
The problem and the issue is that the grind is a horrible pain and that is not getting fixed. Instead, we have this "cheat" to calm the naif players nervs by putting larger numbers.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
And the ones that you dont hear on the forums just leave with out said good bye: http://steamcharts.com/app/9900#All
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Frankly, the game stats point to them loosing players quickly after the DR release which means they screwed up, and yet, they insist on keeping the excessive grind in-place.
To the ones that claim all is good, try playing as a casual player. See how annoying it gets very quickly.
For the love of God, stop posting that stat page link. For one, it clearly states that the average player count is higher now than it has been in over a year which is the exact opposite of what you're trying to 'prove'. Secondly, it only tracks Steam players and not everybody uses Steam.
I'm not disagreeing that I don't think this launch has been as successful as they are claiming, but seriously stop with the link. :P
The catch is that most non-forumites will see bigger XP numbers and THINK they're leveling up faster, only to have their hopes irrevocably broken by:
- Looking at the point requirements for each level and see the bigger number
- Find out by logging into the forums just to yell "XP RAISED! WE CAN NOW LEVEL UP FASTER!" and then kicked into the ground that it was just an illusion as multiple forumites correct them
- Other players in-game after making a fool of themselves yelling from the highest points of ESD/First City/New Romulus that that XP was buffed and leveling will be faster.
Do you even know how to reed the chart?
And dont tell us! I didnt know that not everyone enter by steam! Dhoooo.. I not even have steam.. but thouse numbers represent the bigger picture: DR got a big spike and now we are even we lower players than before. Even with a Dil event, lobi event, Crafting event and Mirror event, the game keeps lossing players.
Numbers do not lie, you can admit them or you can hide from them.. but they are still there.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I was speaking about the majority in-game who will not be aware of what's going on because they don't always post all the notes to the main page, much less visit the forums for things like this which should get pinned to the front page for a week.
And it's guaranteed to happen. Just like players being unaware that they were earning Starship masteries faster until after they were told in-game. Or more notably, the fact that plenty of players still didn't know that they can now equip 3 Omnis; provided two of them are the KCB and Ancient AP Omni.
Smoke and mirrors, Smoke and mirrors...
THE SKY IS GREEN THE GRASS IS BLUE & THE MOON IS MADE OF CHEESE.
Unfortunately I myself am not going to bother with that doing it on each and every character. It is so much of a grind where as D'angelo himself said that is boring when he was announced and yet he went back on what he said because instead of less grind its more of a grind. So as much of a loyal STO player as I have been over the years this was the last straw for me.
Skill points already suck enough so if this is going to make things worse they should just step out and say it and take the flames that are coming at them.
While the effect will be a net zero (not really; see above), it's still good for the dev side to be getting their ducks in a row. I'll save my displeasure for the really bad mechanics (BNP / APC behind the Advanced gate you're gearing for).
What I am taking away from this is that skill point bonus pools are being nurfed.
"Fix" things, without fixing anything.
Progression too fast, STOP IT AT ALL COSTS!
BUT WE WANT MORE POINTZ PLZ
K WE GIVES YOU LOTSA POINTS, BUT PROGRESSION STILL SLOW CUZ WE SAY SO
OK