Quite a bit of negative reaction to the upcoming changes. I understand. This is another drop in the bucket. Bucket will overflow soon... I dont want to put anymore energy, and certainly no more money in this game. I love STO, but im really getting the fear. Feel like i cant trust it anymore. Im sure i can lay down a bit more text, but i feel like a short response is all i can give right now.
No drama, just seeing how we all might need a break from this game and move on to other things. Atleast for the time being.
If the devs don't post this information in anger, then there's no reason to respond in anger. If people can't make a clear communication over whether the change is good or bad without resorting to toxic rhetoric, then they have nothing valuable to contribute.
Rhetoric like this.
That's fine and all, but it doesn't really get us anywhere productive.
They can. But they choose not to.
No, it isn't. That's how adults deal with problems in the real world.
Again just your opinion! "Nerfing" anyone's thought's except your own!
So you really think the devs listen to you? Wow what an ego you have!
Maybe they are nerfing them because they are going to use the whole shuttle system for something useful like the ability to equip carrier pets like secondary ships.
So, in other words, you're saying you're taking the high road on this one because you think you understand (and can maybe empathize with) their ulterior motives, right? I can see that. But wouldn't it be nice if Cryptic was actually, you know, honest about things? Less insulting to their customers, and less confusing.
Gecko, I supported you with the japori thing and I generally agree with you all. But I refuse to accept this TRIBBLE nerf. The Pets have been like this for years!!!! Many people including myself use carriers and with this nerf there is no point to them. These are part of peoples build and I implore you to rethink this issue and to consider the XP nerf as well.
I am a lifetimer and spend cash on this game. i even bought the DR Pack. Do NOT something that will alienate customers who have supported you for the last 3 years.....oh and Smirk, With this i can not in good conscience be a mod in this forum. please disreguard my request.
Even before DR...did you ever parse Xindi Frigates or Scimitar Drones? Compared to other pets...heh, where often a single hangar of other pets would do better than than half the group in a PUG...the Xindi and Drones would just make other pets look like cottonballs being thrown against the wind at a brick wall.
Sorry VD but I'm going to have to disagree here.
While some Carriers treat their hangar units as additives, some need them as their centerpiece for offense. Atrox, Obelisk for example are already very light Tactically. Most Carriers also have only 6 weapon slots.
And hangar units' performance should drop for the sake people that can't build their ship right, play the game right?
I mentioned in my earlier reply in this thread that there are already many hangar units that are horrible. They're either:
- Too weak in firepower
- Too fragile
- Can't turn well enough to present their narrow arc weapons
- Have a combination of the above 3.
- But all suffer from terrible AI.
Trying to remember the last time someone complained that Type 8 / Type 10 Shuttles, Stalkers, Orion Slavers, Marauding Force, Tachyon Drones, Delta Flyers, etc, were OP.
Trying to remember when separation units such as the Galaxy Saucer, Odyssey Chevron, Odyssey Aquarius, Bortasqu' Hoh'Sus BOP, Prometheus MVAE units, were too high performers and needed to be toned down.
There were already many hangar units that performed poorly even before DR, and now they're ALL going to get nerfed with the presence of improved Post-DR NPCs? Because their performance is better than terrible players? There are players that have trouble killing Normal Mirandas while flying something like a Xindi Escort. And hangar units should be nerfed to account for terrible player performance?
If you honestly believe Cryptic doesn't act on feedback from the playerbase, then there is literally nothing I can say at this point to persuade you otherwise.
If you think that by me pointing out that Cryptic has acted upon player feedback is my ego talking, then I'm going to have to say your skepticism is your cynicism talking.
Ok, I'm not one to post much, I just read these for a heads up and such. For me to feel motivated to post is pretty much an act of divine intervention.
So without further ado...I can understand nerfing things like ungodly high DPS and hull from our pets. If that's the case; please for the love of all cuddly koalas; post exactly how this is so. Are they gaining values that we as players cannot normally see because of another underlaying bug? Not just this general it's OP so we are going to nerf it stuff.
If you're nerfing for any other reason than that...I believe your next lock box should be the "Collective" and the one after that "Iconian".
While some Carriers treat their hangar units as additives, some need them as their centerpiece for offense. Atrox, Obelisk for example are already very light Tactically. Most Carriers also have only 6 weapon slots.
And hangar units' performance should drop for the sake people that can't build their ship right, play the game right?
I mentioned in my earlier reply in this thread that there are already many hangar units that are horrible. They're either:
- Too weak in firepower
- Too fragile
- Can't turn well enough to present their narrow arc weapons
- Have a combination of the above 3.
- But all suffer from terrible AI.
Trying to remember the last time someone complained that Type 8 / Type 10 Shuttles, Stalkers, Orion Slavers, Marauding Force, Tachyon Drones, Delta Flyers, etc, were OP.
Trying to remember when separation units such as the Galaxy Saucer, Odyssey Chevron, Odyssey Aquarius, Bortasqu' Hoh'Sus BOP, Prometheus MVAE units, were too high performers and needed to be toned down.
There were already many hangar units that performed poorly even before DR, and now they're ALL going to get nerfed with the presence of improved Post-DR NPCs? Because their performance is better than terrible players? There are players that have trouble killing Normal Mirandas while flying something like a Xindi Escort. And hangar units should be nerfed to account for terrible player performance?
Where's the sense in all this?
I agree with all the above, the most i have seen so far is 12k dps from pets and that was from a carrier.
Meanwhile beam boats doing 100k dps is alright and needs no nerfs?
Look on the bright side. We might get a T6 carrier for free. Granted, it'll come with useless hangar pets, but it's free. With a free Starship Mastery trait that may or may not be useless, but knowing Cryptic, will probably be useless as it's not a Federation exclusive, or will be useless because it gives negligible boosts to all hangar-launched pets.
If you honestly believe Cryptic doesn't act on feedback from the playerbase, then there is literally nothing I can say at this point to persuade you otherwise.
If you think that by me pointing out that Cryptic has acted upon player feedback is my ego talking, then I'm going to have to say your skepticism is your cynicism talking.
No, no. I honestly don't believe your claim of having the exclusive ear of the Devs. Honestly, you don't. Unless the 'you' in the quote was meant as 'any of us,' in which case we seem to have a misunderstanding. But if you really took 'you' to mean you specifically, then yes, I would find your 'Just reality' remark rather strange.
Do I think they listen to us? Recent dev posts have led me to believe, contrary to what is usually being said, that they are definitely aware of what we're saying. Hearing and listening aren't necessarily the same thing, though. I think they hear all, but usually only listen when they can no longer afford not to.
Unless the 'you' in the quote was meant as 'any of us,' in which case we seem to have a misunderstanding. But if you really took 'you' to mean you specifically, then yes, I would find your 'Just reality' remark rather strange.
I typically do not respond to personal insults, only the arguments someone is making. That is exactly what it is, a misunderstanding.
You are taking someone else's accusation that I made such a claim, or taking what I said out of context and then believing it. I was responding to the idea that Cryptic does not act upon player feedback as fantasy. When in reality the past has shown they have.
I do mean 'me' as in 'any of us', since I am not that arrogant to believe I have some exclusive invisible puppet string pulling on anyone in Cryptic.
And I would never assume so. But here I am. Responding to personal insults.
But since apparently that has been left ambiguous, maybe I should clarify some other positions people have accused me of having in the past.
I am not a TRIBBLE, nor have I ever supported the TRIBBLE party.
I am not a communist, nor have I ever supported the communist party.
I do not have cooties, despite accusations to the contrary.
My mother does not have any signifigant weight problem.
I believe kicking puppies is a bad thing, just in case anyone believes I hold the position that kicking puppies is a positive and productive use of someone's time.
Arson is a crime, and I do not support that criminal action being undertaken.
Anything else I'm missing?
Do I think they listen to us? Recent dev posts have led me to believe, contrary to what is usually being said, that they are definitely aware of what we're saying. Hearing and listening aren't necessarily the same thing, though. I think they hear all, but usually only listen when they can no longer afford not to.
There is a difference between listening to us and acting upon what we say. Some people think there is no difference. That they are one and the same.
Gecko, I supported you with the japori thing and I generally agree with you all. But I refuse to accept this TRIBBLE nerf. The Pets have been like this for years!!!! Many people including myself use carriers and with this nerf there is no point to them. These are part of peoples build and I implore you to rethink this issue and to consider the XP nerf as well.
^^ That's where I'm at too.
Not to be rude, but this feels exactly like the same stunt they pulled with the XP tables, which had also been *exactly* like that for years!
Honestly, Geko, please just tell me the real reason. Then I will probably still be upset; but this form of 'communication' really isn't going anywhere!
So, in other words, you're saying you're taking the high road on this one because you think you understand (and can maybe empathize with) their ulterior motives, right? I can see that. But wouldn't it be nice if Cryptic was actually, you know, honest about things? Less insulting to their customers, and less confusing.
I typically do not respond to personal insults, only the arguments someone is making. That is exactly what it is, a misunderstanding.
You are taking someone else's accusation that I made such a claim, or taking what I said out of context and then believing it. I was responding to the idea that Cryptic does not act upon player feedback as fantasy. When in reality the past has shown they have.
I do mean 'me' as in 'any of us', since I am not that arrogant to believe I have some exclusive invisible puppet string pulling on anyone in Cryptic.
And I would never assume so. But here I am. Responding to personal insults.
In that case, my apologies. The way I read it seemed totally out of character for you anyway. So, again, sorry for misreading.
Looks like Mr. Rivera just saved himself the time of having to write a dev blog for them.
At lease he get's a brownie point for you know ... actually interacting (sort of) on the forums ... , instead of Twitter or a Podcast .
... sure , he's still talking at us and not with us , but it's better then the options mentioned above ... , especially how the Podcasters these days just nod-nod to everything during interviews ...
at least they warned us this time... imagine if this was just tossed in patch notes the day before it happened
Yup , this too .
But speaking in general ... , I'd appreciate it if they layed out their plan to balance the game as a whole -- you know ... , honest like .
Tell us that pets, Doffs , Boffs and whatever else is being looked at to bring us a cohesive game experience .
Because as things stand now , all players will be able to see is a nerf to *their* favorite part of the game .
And let's be honest ... , with the slowness that Cryptic produces *everything* , a nerf / ballance across the board is going to take them a long time too .... (unless it's has to do with gaining XP ...) . :rolleyes:
While some Carriers treat their hangar units as additives, some need them as their centerpiece for offense. Atrox, Obelisk for example are already very light Tactically. Most Carriers also have only 6 weapon slots.
And hangar units' performance should drop for the sake people that can't build their ship right, play the game right?
I mentioned in my earlier reply in this thread that there are already many hangar units that are horrible. They're either:
- Too weak in firepower
- Too fragile
- Can't turn well enough to present their narrow arc weapons
- Have a combination of the above 3.
- But all suffer from terrible AI.
Trying to remember the last time someone complained that Type 8 / Type 10 Shuttles, Stalkers, Orion Slavers, Marauding Force, Tachyon Drones, Delta Flyers, etc, were OP.
Trying to remember when separation units such as the Galaxy Saucer, Odyssey Chevron, Odyssey Aquarius, Bortasqu' Hoh'Sus BOP, Prometheus MVAE units, were too high performers and needed to be toned down.
There were already many hangar units that performed poorly even before DR, and now they're ALL going to get nerfed with the presence of improved Post-DR NPCs? Because their performance is better than terrible players? There are players that have trouble killing Normal Mirandas while flying something like a Xindi Escort. And hangar units should be nerfed to account for terrible player performance?
Where's the sense in all this?
But that wasn't really disagreeing...er...at least not with what I intended to say.
You could drop out a hangar of Elite Scorpions from a Marauder and have the Scorps outperform 2-3 folks in a PUG. That's not a case of needing to nerf the Scorpions...that's a case of folks needing some serious help with their builds and tactics.
At the same time though, you've got things like the Drones/Xindi Frigates - that if you compare them to other pets...they're just in a league of their own.
The performance line for pets needs to be set, those below need to raised and those above need to be lowered. Which is where one would get into a pet balancing thing.
That's where my reply was aimed at...the pets that could have been considered OP even before DR because of their comparison to other pets - along with the wee bit of a joke about how even lesser pets could outperform folks.
All Geko said was that pets were scaling wrong and they were going to be adjusted to match the scaling of other gear. That's a straight enough matter in of itself, no? It's bugged...fix it.
That doesn't mean that folks can't continue to push for some balancing of the pets amongst themselves as well as for the overall usability of pets, right? But bugged is bugged...whether it's disadvantageous or advantageous. They can't tweak things in our favor if they're bugged from the start - I'd rather have the more constructive conversation with them once they fix the bug about the performance of the various pets and having some sort of pet revamp done which straightens things out...
Cause in the end, the scaling issue doesn't fix the underlying issue of some pets being downright laughable...cause it's scaling, the pets that were laughable will still be laughable by comparison.
Personally, I'd rather they fixed those pets rather than making them look even worse by comparison...
I knew something was wrong when I could see my carrier pets fly around for a few seconds and fire a couple of shots before exploding. They are to op if you could actually watch them. When they get nerfed at least think about lowering the cd.
Comments
No drama, just seeing how we all might need a break from this game and move on to other things. Atleast for the time being.
I can see that happening
time to throw the console back in the bank as there is no point using them again sense they will just doe instantly
Again just your opinion! "Nerfing" anyone's thought's except your own!
So you really think the devs listen to you? Wow what an ego you have!
Zeus
So, in other words, you're saying you're taking the high road on this one because you think you understand (and can maybe empathize with) their ulterior motives, right? I can see that. But wouldn't it be nice if Cryptic was actually, you know, honest about things? Less insulting to their customers, and less confusing.
That's the first funny thing I've read all day.
That's a real stretch.
No. Just reality.
I am a lifetimer and spend cash on this game. i even bought the DR Pack. Do NOT something that will alienate customers who have supported you for the last 3 years.....oh and Smirk, With this i can not in good conscience be a mod in this forum. please disreguard my request.
No, that's ego, LOL. With a halo.
Honestly, can't believe you just said that!
Sorry VD but I'm going to have to disagree here.
While some Carriers treat their hangar units as additives, some need them as their centerpiece for offense. Atrox, Obelisk for example are already very light Tactically. Most Carriers also have only 6 weapon slots.
And hangar units' performance should drop for the sake people that can't build their ship right, play the game right?
I mentioned in my earlier reply in this thread that there are already many hangar units that are horrible. They're either:
- Too weak in firepower
- Too fragile
- Can't turn well enough to present their narrow arc weapons
- Have a combination of the above 3.
- But all suffer from terrible AI.
Trying to remember the last time someone complained that Type 8 / Type 10 Shuttles, Stalkers, Orion Slavers, Marauding Force, Tachyon Drones, Delta Flyers, etc, were OP.
Trying to remember when separation units such as the Galaxy Saucer, Odyssey Chevron, Odyssey Aquarius, Bortasqu' Hoh'Sus BOP, Prometheus MVAE units, were too high performers and needed to be toned down.
There were already many hangar units that performed poorly even before DR, and now they're ALL going to get nerfed with the presence of improved Post-DR NPCs? Because their performance is better than terrible players? There are players that have trouble killing Normal Mirandas while flying something like a Xindi Escort. And hangar units should be nerfed to account for terrible player performance?
Where's the sense in all this?
If you honestly believe Cryptic doesn't act on feedback from the playerbase, then there is literally nothing I can say at this point to persuade you otherwise.
If you think that by me pointing out that Cryptic has acted upon player feedback is my ego talking, then I'm going to have to say your skepticism is your cynicism talking.
You have such a wonderful economy with words, I look forward to your next syllable with eager anticipation!
Zeus
How can pets such as the Bleth Choas Fighter be over performing when they're not even in the game yet?
Ummmm....Surprise???
So without further ado...I can understand nerfing things like ungodly high DPS and hull from our pets. If that's the case; please for the love of all cuddly koalas; post exactly how this is so. Are they gaining values that we as players cannot normally see because of another underlaying bug? Not just this general it's OP so we are going to nerf it stuff.
If you're nerfing for any other reason than that...I believe your next lock box should be the "Collective" and the one after that "Iconian".
I agree with all the above, the most i have seen so far is 12k dps from pets and that was from a carrier.
Meanwhile beam boats doing 100k dps is alright and needs no nerfs?
The surprise is that they're getting nerfed before they even hit the Tribble Test Server. Or rather, the actual Test Server, Holodeck :cool:
This is a legitimate question.
No, no. I honestly don't believe your claim of having the exclusive ear of the Devs. Honestly, you don't.
Do I think they listen to us? Recent dev posts have led me to believe, contrary to what is usually being said, that they are definitely aware of what we're saying. Hearing and listening aren't necessarily the same thing, though. I think they hear all, but usually only listen when they can no longer afford not to.
Well just as long as Bort does not count each and every number while he plays because he trusts the number in the game ... .
I typically do not respond to personal insults, only the arguments someone is making. That is exactly what it is, a misunderstanding.
You are taking someone else's accusation that I made such a claim, or taking what I said out of context and then believing it. I was responding to the idea that Cryptic does not act upon player feedback as fantasy. When in reality the past has shown they have.
I do mean 'me' as in 'any of us', since I am not that arrogant to believe I have some exclusive invisible puppet string pulling on anyone in Cryptic.
And I would never assume so. But here I am. Responding to personal insults.
But since apparently that has been left ambiguous, maybe I should clarify some other positions people have accused me of having in the past.
I am not a TRIBBLE, nor have I ever supported the TRIBBLE party.
I am not a communist, nor have I ever supported the communist party.
I do not have cooties, despite accusations to the contrary.
My mother does not have any signifigant weight problem.
I believe kicking puppies is a bad thing, just in case anyone believes I hold the position that kicking puppies is a positive and productive use of someone's time.
Arson is a crime, and I do not support that criminal action being undertaken.
Anything else I'm missing?
There is a difference between listening to us and acting upon what we say. Some people think there is no difference. That they are one and the same.
That is not the case. It never was.
^^ That's where I'm at too.
Not to be rude, but this feels exactly like the same stunt they pulled with the XP tables, which had also been *exactly* like that for years!
Honestly, Geko, please just tell me the real reason. Then I will probably still be upset; but this form of 'communication' really isn't going anywhere!
not 'think' more like 'hope'
In that case, my apologies. The way I read it seemed totally out of character for you anyway. So, again, sorry for misreading.
At lease he get's a brownie point for you know ... actually interacting (sort of) on the forums ... , instead of Twitter or a Podcast .
... sure , he's still talking at us and not with us , but it's better then the options mentioned above ... , especially how the Podcasters these days just nod-nod to everything during interviews ...
Yup , this too .
But speaking in general ... , I'd appreciate it if they layed out their plan to balance the game as a whole -- you know ... , honest like .
Tell us that pets, Doffs , Boffs and whatever else is being looked at to bring us a cohesive game experience .
Because as things stand now , all players will be able to see is a nerf to *their* favorite part of the game .
And let's be honest ... , with the slowness that Cryptic produces *everything* , a nerf / ballance across the board is going to take them a long time too .... (unless it's has to do with gaining XP ...) . :rolleyes:
... I hope there won't be 40 days grind.
But that wasn't really disagreeing...er...at least not with what I intended to say.
You could drop out a hangar of Elite Scorpions from a Marauder and have the Scorps outperform 2-3 folks in a PUG. That's not a case of needing to nerf the Scorpions...that's a case of folks needing some serious help with their builds and tactics.
At the same time though, you've got things like the Drones/Xindi Frigates - that if you compare them to other pets...they're just in a league of their own.
The performance line for pets needs to be set, those below need to raised and those above need to be lowered. Which is where one would get into a pet balancing thing.
That's where my reply was aimed at...the pets that could have been considered OP even before DR because of their comparison to other pets - along with the wee bit of a joke about how even lesser pets could outperform folks.
All Geko said was that pets were scaling wrong and they were going to be adjusted to match the scaling of other gear. That's a straight enough matter in of itself, no? It's bugged...fix it.
That doesn't mean that folks can't continue to push for some balancing of the pets amongst themselves as well as for the overall usability of pets, right? But bugged is bugged...whether it's disadvantageous or advantageous. They can't tweak things in our favor if they're bugged from the start - I'd rather have the more constructive conversation with them once they fix the bug about the performance of the various pets and having some sort of pet revamp done which straightens things out...
Cause in the end, the scaling issue doesn't fix the underlying issue of some pets being downright laughable...cause it's scaling, the pets that were laughable will still be laughable by comparison.
Personally, I'd rather they fixed those pets rather than making them look even worse by comparison...
It sounds like they are going to make the pets in question affected by the player's gear/stats, as they were not before
so would that mean they would get our resists and damage console modifiers? (assuming this is actually the case of course)