Trek21, why can't we? We put bread on the dev's tables. A vessel-in this case the vessel is STO-cannot function without its crew. Now, while the crew COULD be the devs, the devs wouldn't HAVE a vessel to run unless they have US. And they are losing US with the bugs and issues that we report and their inaction to fix the issues and bugs that we report.
Now, I know that to expect the game to be bug free and issue free is impossible. But with what they are doing, and then this?
Again, we put the bread on their tables. Without us, there is no bread for them.
One would think that you would see that if we DON'T report this, and say nothing, that that would not happen. No one wants to play a game that is so far broken you can't do anything.
I never said that we couldn't suggest things, submit bug reports, and all that - just that we can't demand priority on this, or that, or that they do this over all else. We can suggest such things, but we can't demand it
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I never said that we couldn't suggest things, submit bug reports, and all that - just that we can't demand priority on this, or that, or that they do this over all else. We can suggest such things, but we can't demand it
Again, why can't we? A company that makes a product that services multiple different demographics needs to have servicing the CUSTOMER the priority.
You're not going to find too much business in a Walmart that would just say that the customer is wrong, as well as the associates completely ignoring you as the customer. The customer asking where something is, could be seen that they are demanding you to stop what you're doing and help them find that item that they need. I'd know how that is. I worked at a Walmart.
This game is no different. The product is the game, and the many demographics are all the players.
Therefore, we have the RIGHT to demand what we want to see out of this product and service. And Cryptic, to keep a solid consumer base, NEEDS to listen. They really don't have too much of a CHOICE if they want to keep business flowing.
Well, as far as I understand it, they're only nerfing the over-scaling aspect, not the usual values pets would have at lvl 60. So really, they're only getting worse when compared to the benefits of this bug - but when compared to before that, they're slightly better than before (lvl 60 compared to lvl 50)
Again, why can't we? A company that makes a product that services multiple different demographics needs to have servicing the CUSTOMER the priority.
You're not going to find too much business in a Walmart that would just say that the customer is wrong, as well as the associates completely ignoring you as the customer. The customer asking where something is, could be seen that they are demanding you to stop what you're doing and help them find that item that they need. I'd know how that is. I worked at a Walmart.
This game is no different. The product is the game, and the many demographics are all the players.
Therefore, we have the RIGHT to demand what we want to see out of this product and service. And Cryptic, to keep a solid consumer base, NEEDS to listen. They really don't have too much of a CHOICE if they want to keep business flowing.
Perhaps, but it also doesn't serve them (or us) to be jerks about it, demanding what we want above everything else. That just makes them care less about us, and in addition, to our suggestions/demands
Granted, I'm not saying you or everyone is like that, but quite a bit of the forums is like that at first instinct
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Again, why can't we? A company that makes a product that services multiple different demographics needs to have servicing the CUSTOMER the priority.
You're not going to find too much business in a Walmart that would just say that the customer is wrong, as well as the associates completely ignoring you as the customer. The customer asking where something is, could be seen that they are demanding you to stop what you're doing and help them find that item that they need. I'd know how that is. I worked at a Walmart.
This game is no different. The product is the game, and the many demographics are all the players.
Therefore, we have the RIGHT to demand what we want to see out of this product and service. And Cryptic, to keep a solid consumer base, NEEDS to listen. They really don't have too much of a CHOICE if they want to keep business flowing.
YES WE CAN WE'RE CUSTOMERS AND PLAYER BASE...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Again, why can't we? A company that makes a product that services multiple different demographics needs to have servicing the CUSTOMER the priority.
You're not going to find too much business in a Walmart that would just say that the customer is wrong, as well as the associates completely ignoring you as the customer. The customer asking where something is, could be seen that they are demanding you to stop what you're doing and help them find that item that they need. I'd know how that is. I worked at a Walmart.
This game is no different. The product is the game, and the many demographics are all the players.
Therefore, we have the RIGHT to demand what we want to see out of this product and service. And Cryptic, to keep a solid consumer base, NEEDS to listen. They really don't have too much of a CHOICE if they want to keep business flowing.
Did you just compare being an associate at Wally-World to being a game developer?
All of that is false entitlement. We don't even pay a subscription to play this game. We are consumers, not customers.
I never said that we couldn't suggest things, submit bug reports, and all that - just that we can't demand priority on this, or that, or that they do this over all else. We can suggest such things, but we can't demand it
I think you are completely wrong here, that is your opinion, but as someone who works in a customer service industry there is a certain term that Cryptic and PWE need to learn. THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!! Now that does not mean that if just 1 of their customers complains about something they need to fix it or not put it into effect, but when you have 58 pages to a proposed change to the game and the majority of the players are saying this is a bad idea and they should not change it, that is what should happen no change. They are on the verge of loosing so many customers that the game is going to go under. I don't mean to sound like doom because i really like the game, but from what i have read here on the forums and heard from my friends and fleetmates in game, Cryptic is standing on a very large cliff and is starting to loose it's footing. Please take all that has been said here throughout all 58 pages of posts and do what the majority of your customers are asking of you.
Well, as far as I understand it, they're only nerfing the over-scaling aspect, not the usual values pets would have at lvl 60. So really, they're only getting worse when compared to the benefits of this bug - but when compared to before that, they're slightly better than before (lvl 60 compared to lvl 50)
This is how I understood it too but no game forum has ever thought before reacting.
I can't be the only one to notice the amazing performance boost pets got and realize it couldn't be right. Don't get me wrong, I was happy that my little guys were suddenly amazing but a pet having more health than the carrier it is launched from should be an obvious bug.
'An unintended buff due to the level increase.' Yeah, let's start with that.
Let the reality of what you just said sink in for a moment: difficulty increases... pets scale along accordingly... O, the horror! Seriously, it's like having an automated salary sytem which 'accidentally' corrects people's incomes for inflation. In other words, even if upscaling the pets was unintended, it's still the most natural thing to have happened.
The issue here being - natural having different meaning for different individuals. For ex., to me the most natural thing would be to not even have carriers and pets in a Star Trek game, but that's also another discussion done to death around here.
The fact remains that if pets were not intended to scale like this during leveling, then it's a bug or a broken mechanic if you will. The only reality about this particular situation is the carrier pets doing something that they weren't programmed to do by the developer.
Nope, it's the same discussion: allow pets to die on the spot again, and their effectiveness is immediately killed right along with it.
Ideally, of course, pets in general could be addressed elsewhere; but, let's be real here: the only thing that will happen, is that they'll nerf pets now, and then leave them unattended for the next 2 years. Many carrier pilots recognize that, of course.
It's a different discussion. The pets were not intended to change their behavior in the first place. More importanlty, this bug aparently isn't hitting everyone so those that get hit actually have a vast advantage over those who don't have the bug, even if they use the same pets and carrier. You can't dance around with bugs, you're either for them or against them. "This one I like, leave it be - that one I don't, squash it" doesn't work like that based on our convenience as players.
I won't pretend to be clairvoyant and to know wheather the devs. will take the carrier pet efficency discussion seriously in the future or not. They're at least trying to communicate with us it seems. Sending them the message that we don't like bug fixes after we asked for bug fixes isn't the smartest thing to do now. It doesn't make us look serious as playerbase.
I think you are completely wrong here, that is your opinion, but as someone who works in a customer service industry there is a certain term that Cryptic and PWE need to learn. THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!! Now that does not mean that if just 1 of their customers complains about something they need to fix it or not put it into effect, but when you have 58 pages to a proposed change to the game and the majority of the players are saying this is a bad idea and they should not change it, that is what should happen no change. They are on the verge of loosing so many customers that the game is going to go under. I don't mean to sound like doom because i really like the game, but from what i have read here on the forums and heard from my friends and fleetmates in game, Cryptic is standing on a very large cliff and is starting to loose it's footing. Please take all that has been said here throughout all 58 pages of posts and do what the majority of your customers are asking of you.
Well, thank you, but I think 'the customer is always right' needs a reality check when it comes to MMOs: do the majority know about the nuances of game balance, the inner workings of business practices, etc etc etc? I certainly don't, and accordingly, I don't ever demand that this and that change be overturned just because I don't like it, precisely because I can't claim that I know any better in such departments. Plus it's in the rules that Cryptic can alter their game programming however they choose
And you can't satisfy everyone; that's a fact.
But regardless of the changes, STO makes a lot of money, and will likely continue to.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Did you just compare being an associate at Wally-World to being a game developer?
All of that is false entitlement. We don't even pay a subscription to play this game. We are consumers, not customers.
You don't have to pay anything to go into Walmart. You have some retail aspects of it. Nerfing a component in this game is like KFC serving a raw chicken to someone who ordered fish.
And the concept remains. When it comes to this, we are BOTH customers and consumers.
And by the way...a consumer is a person or group of people, such as a household, who are the final users of products or services. A customer is a person who purchases goods or services from another.
Before you go stating that someone who worked retail long enough to know the difference, please make sure what you are saying is VALID and TRUE.
Aand last I knew, the GAME is a service that they provided us with, so yes, you ARE right. But we also are customers as we then buy the goods and services-lifetime subs, C-store stuff, and so on-as we are BUYING the rights to use those from Cryptic. So I'M right.
Anyone complaining about this who doesnt pull 15k+ dps with their pets alone probably wont even notice anything.
Anyone pulling that kind of dps with their pets alone is likely pulling 30-50k dps overall and already knew it was broken. Having automated fire and forget dps of that caliber is usually a big no no since to reach such high numbers should be based on skill, not pets that do 15k+ dps and outdamage probably 90% of the playerbase.
You don't have to pay anything to go into Walmart. You have some retail aspects of it. Nerfing a component in this game is like KFC serving a raw chicken to someone who ordered fish.
And the concept remains. When it comes to this, we are BOTH customers and consumers.
And by the way...a consumer is a person or group of people, such as a household, who are the final users of products or services. A customer is a person who purchases goods or services from another.
Before you go stating that someone who worked retail long enough to know the difference, please make sure what you are saying is VALID and TRUE.
Aand last I knew, the GAME is a service that they provided us with, so yes, you ARE right. But we also are customers as we then buy the goods and services-lifetime subs, C-store stuff, and so on-as we are BUYING the rights to use those from Cryptic. So I'M right.
So are you saying that only the paying player can dictate what route the development takes? I mean, a person can make an account, level all the way up to 60, save his dil to turn into zen, and "buy" whatever zen ship he wants... all for free.
You need to take this "I paid for it" mentality out of this free to play game. If we all paid subs, I could possibly agree with you, but this isn't the case. This is why I said we are not customers in this instance, just merely consumers.
Well, thank you, but I think 'the customer is always right' needs a reality check when it comes to MMOs: do the majority know about the nuances of game balance, the inner workings of business practices, etc etc etc? I certainly don't, and accordingly, I don't ever demand that this and that change be overturned just because I don't like it, precisely because I can't claim that I know any better in such departments. Plus it's in the rules that Cryptic can alter their game programming however they choose
And you can't satisfy everyone; that's a fact.
But regardless of the changes, STO makes a lot of money, and will likely continue to.
Ok maybe demand is too strong a word here, but still you need to voice your disagreement with a company's change if you don't like it or they will just keep doing what they want over and over agian. This may be 2 different types of business's but for example if you went to a resteraunt and ordered a meal that you ended up not likeing. You tell the staff that it was not to your liking for a certain reason and were told that it's too bad they won't change anything or just get complete silence from them, how would that make you feel? Would you go back to that resteraunt again? Like I said 2 different business's but same customer service problem, you have to listen to your customer base no matter what kind of attitude they bring to their complaints. You have to remove emotion from it as a business and pull out the information from them to help make the company even better. If you continue ignoring your customers eventually they will get tired of it and leave. So now I put this to Cryptic and PWE, please start listening to you playebase. Most of us know that you can't make everyone happy, but when it comes across to the majority of your players that they are being completely ignored or not given a better explanation as to why a change is going to be made. You turn your customers away from the game. I am a paying customer and have put lots of money into this game, but until i see a change in the way Cryptic and PWE listens to what the majority of the playera are saying here on the forums or at least start clarifying their changes, my wallet is closed and will not open again until this changes.
I think you are completely wrong here, that is your opinion, but as someone who works in a customer service industry there is a certain term that Cryptic and PWE need to learn. THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!! Now that does not mean that if just 1 of their customers complains about something they need to fix it or not put it into effect, but when you have 58 pages to a proposed change to the game and the majority of the players are saying this is a bad idea and they should not change it, that is what should happen no change. They are on the verge of loosing so many customers that the game is going to go under. I don't mean to sound like doom because i really like the game, but from what i have read here on the forums and heard from my friends and fleetmates in game, Cryptic is standing on a very large cliff and is starting to loose it's footing. Please take all that has been said here throughout all 58 pages of posts and do what the majority of your customers are asking of you.
Customer is always right. Go watch Pawnstars, customer is hardly EVER right. If they were, companies would never make any money. Sorry they are SOMETIMES right but ALWAYS, that's a hoot.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Well, thank you, but I think 'the customer is always right' needs a reality check when it comes to MMOs: do the majority know about the nuances of game balance, the inner workings of business practices, etc etc etc? I certainly don't, and accordingly, I don't ever demand that this and that change be overturned just because I don't like it, precisely because I can't claim that I know any better in such departments. Plus it's in the rules that Cryptic can alter their game programming however they choose
And you can't satisfy everyone; that's a fact.
But regardless of the changes, STO makes a lot of money, and will likely continue to.
I will admit that most do NOT know what goes into making a game and all. But the customer should at least be LISTENED to, as if they ARE right. EVEN IN MMOS, my friend. But again, if for instance, the XP amount is insanely low and the needed amount is so high, how is that going to keep people coming back to your product the next day? A friend of mine has left for this, and he's not alone. You have a voice, and if you don't like something, you have the right to say so. And I do understand that too. But they have a business to run, and families to feed. If you have people running from the game because of something that you changed that screwed people over from having fun, then I think you need to reevaluate what is going on in it, and change it to keep your family from being hungry and homeless, and YOURSELF unemployed. And I know that you can't satify everyone. And you are correct. But the fact remains that if you continue to treat your customer and consumer like a piece of meat, well, they'll find some other place to go.
Also, do you really like Cryptic THAT much, that you would pick up arms for them, or even step in phaserfire for them?
I run the Xindi Narcine Dread with Elite Mobulais. As a Sci. With lots or torpedos. And I love it.
To me, the Elite Mobulai Frigates were the reason to go for the Narcine, kinda the USP. And let's not get into how many dirty warp nacelles I had to clean to grind the dil and fleet credits.
If I won't notice a change on my lvl 60 maxed out T5U Narcine, I won't mind. Everything would be fair and square. My two cents is that the Elite Mobulais are the best FED hangar pets in the game, clearly ahead of the Swarmers.
Having said that, my ship is being shown as having 80k hull. Every Mobulai has 87k hull.
Then again, just take the Borg sector daily: Me (and sometimes teammates) kill off the group before my Mobulai are even there. We fly to the next group, same thing over and over again. Plus those pilots must be high on Aldebaran Whisky or something like that because they love flying into warp core breaches, turning into a big ball of fire themselves.
So since they will be nerfing shields, hull AND weapons... I can see where this is going. And I don't like it. They might wind up with 15-20k hull, half the shields at best and squirt guns that can make "pew pew" like the Ferengi Rocket Launcher. Looks nice, but heck... it sucks.
They better make sure to at least critically think over other adaptions that fit the package and also the needs of carrier captains. *sigh*
You can't dance around with bugs, you're either for them or against them. "This one I like, leave it be - that one I don't, squash it" doesn't work like that based on our convenience as players.
In the strictest sense, that is true, of course. But I think fixing bugs should fall under the Hippocratic Oath paradigm: "Above all, do not harm!" If 'fixing' pets means totally breaking them again otherwise, then do nothing! At least until you figured out how to fix them properly.
They're at least trying to communicate with us it seems. Sending them the message that we don't like bug fixes after we asked for bug fixes isn't the smartest thing to do now. It doesn't make us look serious as playerbase.
I'm still not so convinced pets really weren't supposed to scale with the rest. And, if it really was a bug, i see it more like a 'Happy Accident,' which actually solved a problem, rather than add one.
Ok maybe demand is too strong a word here, but still you need to voice your disagreement with a company's change if you don't like it or they will just keep doing what they want over and over agian. This may be 2 different types of business's but for example if you went to a resteraunt and ordered a meal that you ended up not likeing. You tell the staff that it was not to your liking for a certain reason and were told that it's too bad they won't change anything or just get complete silence from them, how would that make you feel? Would you go back to that resteraunt again? Like I said 2 different business's but same customer service problem, you have to listen to your customer base no matter what kind of attitude they bring to their complaints. You have to remove emotion from it as a business and pull out the information from them to help make the company even better. If you continue ignoring your customers eventually they will get tired of it and leave. So now I put this to Cryptic and PWE, please start listening to you playebase. Most of us know that you can't make everyone happy, but when it comes across to the majority of your players that they are being completely ignored or not given a better explanation as to why a change is going to be made. You turn your customers away from the game. I am a paying customer and have put lots of money into this game, but until i see a change in the way Cryptic and PWE listens to what the majority of the playera are saying here on the forums or at least start clarifying their changes, my wallet is closed and will not open again until this changes.
Actually, my argument was not 'do not voice your dissatisfcation period', it was far more 'voice your dissatisfaction reasonably, because anything else just wastes unnecessary energy and creates more useless conflict'.
And as far as paying customer, that is your choice. I've merely been a LTS since Open Beta, which even back then, I saw as worth more value than paying a sub every month, and it payed off at the 2 year mark.
I will admit that most do NOT know what goes into making a game and all. But the customer should at least be LISTENED to, as if they ARE right. EVEN IN MMOS, my friend. But again, if for instance, the XP amount is insanely low and the needed amount is so high, how is that going to keep people coming back to your product the next day? A friend of mine has left for this, and he's not alone. You have a voice, and if you don't like something, you have the right to say so. And I do understand that too. But they have a business to run, and families to feed. If you have people running from the game because of something that you changed that screwed people over from having fun, then I think you need to reevaluate what is going on in it, and change it to keep your family from being hungry and homeless, and YOURSELF unemployed. And I know that you can't satify everyone. And you are correct. But the fact remains that if you continue to treat your customer and consumer like a piece of meat, well, they'll find some other place to go.
Also, do you really like Cryptic THAT much, that you would pick up arms for them, or even step in phaserfire for them?
That's just it though; they do listen to everything we say, and many devs do read the forums, even if they don't actually post that much. Just because they decided not to implement/change something doesn't mean it wasn't considered
And as for Cryptic, I don't particularly like them, nor do I have anything against them (or anything they'd done, in general or to me). It's more neutral, and to me, neutral is still enough cause to generally be on their side. And you'll notice that being on their side doesn't mean I actually praise them; just general defense stuff as I see fit. I don't argue for everything they've done, good or bad
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Customer is always right. Go watch Pawnstars, customer is hardly EVER right. If they were, companies would never make any money. Sorry they are SOMETIMES right but ALWAYS, that's a hoot.
Really you're gonna try and compare this game to a pawn shop. What you see on that show are not the stores customers, they are not buying anything from that store they are selling to that store. So that will make them a supplier not a customer. Not a very good comparison in my opinion.
So are you saying that only the paying player can dictate what route the development takes? I mean, a person can make an account, level all the way up to 60, save his dil to turn into zen, and "buy" whatever zen ship he wants... all for free.
You need to take this "I paid for it" mentality out of this free to play game. If we all paid subs, I could possibly agree with you, but this isn't the case. This is why I said we are not customers in this instance, just merely consumers.
That was not what I meant. You still use a product that they have presented, but as the game IS F2P, it is also Pay to WIN. You indubitably have bought yourself C-Store ships, or at the VERY LEAST ZEN for dilithium. It's really hard to get anywhere in this game unless you drop SOMETHING here and there.
By the way, I'm not a lifer myself, and just recently became a monthly SUBSCRIBER. But even before THAT, I was putting money into the game in the way of ZEN for ships, and other things.
That's just it though; they do listen to everything we say, and many devs do read the forums, even if they don't actually post that much. Just because they decided not to implement/change something doesn't mean it wasn't considered
And as for Cryptic, I don't particularly like them, nor do I have anything against them (or anything they'd done, in general or to me). It's more neutral, and to me, neutral is still enough cause to generally be on their side. And you'll notice that being on their side doesn't mean I actually praise them; just general defense stuff as I see fit. I don't argue for everything they've done, good or bad
Sounds to me like you work there. How do you know that they "listen to everything we say, and devs do read the forums" when all we get from them most of the time is silence. If we just got more and better communication from them, even if we didn't agree with what they were doing. Most of the people complaining here would be much happier just to hear from them and have a better explanation to what they are doing. I don't think that is too much to ask from any company.
Sounds to me like you work there. How do you know that they "listen to everything we say, and devs do read the forums" when all we get from them most of the time is silence. If we just got more and better communication from them, even if we didn't agree with what they were doing. Most of the people complaining here would be much happier just to hear from them and have a better explanation to what they are doing. I don't think that is too much to ask from any company.
Well, I don't (and if I did, no doubt I'd just be your average TRIBBLE-kisser, which I am not by definition), but thank you
But I say that from experience. They say they play the game, and I have occasionally seen pink-colored names in-game (which is dev accounts), so obviously they must also have regular accounts that aren't meant for us to know it's them. And a number of times when people post issues here in the forums (in the proper sub-forums, respectfully state the issue, and steps about how it happened rather than just it's existence), they get an answer sometimes.
If they weren't looking into the forums every now and then, they wouldn't have seen those issues in the first place, much less posted in those threads.
To me, the above are just facts - and I generally take things as they are (or insofar as I see them; opinions and perspectives are different of course)
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
In the strictest sense, that is true, of course. But I think fixing bugs should fall under the Hippocratic Oath paradigm: "Above all, do not harm!" If 'fixing' pets means totally breaking them again otherwise, then do nothing! At least until you figured out how to fix them properly.
I'm still not so convinced pets really weren't supposed to scale with the rest. And, if it really was a bug, i see it more like a 'Happy Accident,' which actually solved a problem, rather than add one.
You either strive for a bug free game or accept a broken one. You may like this bug. I may like another, like the skill tray bug. Let's say I'm weird and think deleting my tray on every instance change is fun, should that be left alone? How about the bug that allowed D'Deridex Captains to destroy firiendly players on neutral maps? They seemed to have a helluva' fun with it.
I hope you're getting my point - the strictest sense is the only sense in these matters. Otherwise Cryptic may say - "well players like that bug, so we wont fix it! But now we like the SA beam out bug, so we'll keep that one as well."
Another very important part you're missing is that not everyone is affected by this bug. So we both could have the same carirer and pets, but mine could have 10k hull vs. yours 70k hull and mine do 5k DPS vs. yours doing 15k DPS. How on Earth is that fair and a 'happy accident'?
You have such a wonderful economy with words, I look forward to your next syllable with eager anticipation!
Zeus
To an outsider to this personal feud it would seem the contribution to this thread has been to constantly attack Iconians. Here and elsewhere he has consistently provided reasoned posts on topic with a sense of humor when needed. Others fling thunderbolts.
By the way Iconians, who the heck is that character in your signature.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
I AGREE!
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Again, why can't we? A company that makes a product that services multiple different demographics needs to have servicing the CUSTOMER the priority.
You're not going to find too much business in a Walmart that would just say that the customer is wrong, as well as the associates completely ignoring you as the customer. The customer asking where something is, could be seen that they are demanding you to stop what you're doing and help them find that item that they need. I'd know how that is. I worked at a Walmart.
This game is no different. The product is the game, and the many demographics are all the players.
Therefore, we have the RIGHT to demand what we want to see out of this product and service. And Cryptic, to keep a solid consumer base, NEEDS to listen. They really don't have too much of a CHOICE if they want to keep business flowing.
We'll have too wait and see i guess lol
Granted, I'm not saying you or everyone is like that, but quite a bit of the forums is like that at first instinct
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
YES WE CAN WE'RE CUSTOMERS AND PLAYER BASE...
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Did you just compare being an associate at Wally-World to being a game developer?
All of that is false entitlement. We don't even pay a subscription to play this game. We are consumers, not customers.
I think you are completely wrong here, that is your opinion, but as someone who works in a customer service industry there is a certain term that Cryptic and PWE need to learn. THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!! Now that does not mean that if just 1 of their customers complains about something they need to fix it or not put it into effect, but when you have 58 pages to a proposed change to the game and the majority of the players are saying this is a bad idea and they should not change it, that is what should happen no change. They are on the verge of loosing so many customers that the game is going to go under. I don't mean to sound like doom because i really like the game, but from what i have read here on the forums and heard from my friends and fleetmates in game, Cryptic is standing on a very large cliff and is starting to loose it's footing. Please take all that has been said here throughout all 58 pages of posts and do what the majority of your customers are asking of you.
This is how I understood it too but no game forum has ever thought before reacting.
I can't be the only one to notice the amazing performance boost pets got and realize it couldn't be right. Don't get me wrong, I was happy that my little guys were suddenly amazing but a pet having more health than the carrier it is launched from should be an obvious bug.
Of course I could always be wrong.
The issue here being - natural having different meaning for different individuals. For ex., to me the most natural thing would be to not even have carriers and pets in a Star Trek game, but that's also another discussion done to death around here.
The fact remains that if pets were not intended to scale like this during leveling, then it's a bug or a broken mechanic if you will. The only reality about this particular situation is the carrier pets doing something that they weren't programmed to do by the developer.
It's a different discussion. The pets were not intended to change their behavior in the first place. More importanlty, this bug aparently isn't hitting everyone so those that get hit actually have a vast advantage over those who don't have the bug, even if they use the same pets and carrier. You can't dance around with bugs, you're either for them or against them. "This one I like, leave it be - that one I don't, squash it" doesn't work like that based on our convenience as players.
I won't pretend to be clairvoyant and to know wheather the devs. will take the carrier pet efficency discussion seriously in the future or not. They're at least trying to communicate with us it seems. Sending them the message that we don't like bug fixes after we asked for bug fixes isn't the smartest thing to do now. It doesn't make us look serious as playerbase.
And you can't satisfy everyone; that's a fact.
But regardless of the changes, STO makes a lot of money, and will likely continue to.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
You don't have to pay anything to go into Walmart. You have some retail aspects of it. Nerfing a component in this game is like KFC serving a raw chicken to someone who ordered fish.
And the concept remains. When it comes to this, we are BOTH customers and consumers.
And by the way...a consumer is a person or group of people, such as a household, who are the final users of products or services. A customer is a person who purchases goods or services from another.
Before you go stating that someone who worked retail long enough to know the difference, please make sure what you are saying is VALID and TRUE.
Aand last I knew, the GAME is a service that they provided us with, so yes, you ARE right. But we also are customers as we then buy the goods and services-lifetime subs, C-store stuff, and so on-as we are BUYING the rights to use those from Cryptic. So I'M right.
Anyone pulling that kind of dps with their pets alone is likely pulling 30-50k dps overall and already knew it was broken. Having automated fire and forget dps of that caliber is usually a big no no since to reach such high numbers should be based on skill, not pets that do 15k+ dps and outdamage probably 90% of the playerbase.
So are you saying that only the paying player can dictate what route the development takes? I mean, a person can make an account, level all the way up to 60, save his dil to turn into zen, and "buy" whatever zen ship he wants... all for free.
You need to take this "I paid for it" mentality out of this free to play game. If we all paid subs, I could possibly agree with you, but this isn't the case. This is why I said we are not customers in this instance, just merely consumers.
Ok maybe demand is too strong a word here, but still you need to voice your disagreement with a company's change if you don't like it or they will just keep doing what they want over and over agian. This may be 2 different types of business's but for example if you went to a resteraunt and ordered a meal that you ended up not likeing. You tell the staff that it was not to your liking for a certain reason and were told that it's too bad they won't change anything or just get complete silence from them, how would that make you feel? Would you go back to that resteraunt again? Like I said 2 different business's but same customer service problem, you have to listen to your customer base no matter what kind of attitude they bring to their complaints. You have to remove emotion from it as a business and pull out the information from them to help make the company even better. If you continue ignoring your customers eventually they will get tired of it and leave. So now I put this to Cryptic and PWE, please start listening to you playebase. Most of us know that you can't make everyone happy, but when it comes across to the majority of your players that they are being completely ignored or not given a better explanation as to why a change is going to be made. You turn your customers away from the game. I am a paying customer and have put lots of money into this game, but until i see a change in the way Cryptic and PWE listens to what the majority of the playera are saying here on the forums or at least start clarifying their changes, my wallet is closed and will not open again until this changes.
Customer is always right. Go watch Pawnstars, customer is hardly EVER right. If they were, companies would never make any money. Sorry they are SOMETIMES right but ALWAYS, that's a hoot.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I will admit that most do NOT know what goes into making a game and all. But the customer should at least be LISTENED to, as if they ARE right. EVEN IN MMOS, my friend. But again, if for instance, the XP amount is insanely low and the needed amount is so high, how is that going to keep people coming back to your product the next day? A friend of mine has left for this, and he's not alone. You have a voice, and if you don't like something, you have the right to say so. And I do understand that too. But they have a business to run, and families to feed. If you have people running from the game because of something that you changed that screwed people over from having fun, then I think you need to reevaluate what is going on in it, and change it to keep your family from being hungry and homeless, and YOURSELF unemployed. And I know that you can't satify everyone. And you are correct. But the fact remains that if you continue to treat your customer and consumer like a piece of meat, well, they'll find some other place to go.
Also, do you really like Cryptic THAT much, that you would pick up arms for them, or even step in phaserfire for them?
To me, the Elite Mobulai Frigates were the reason to go for the Narcine, kinda the USP. And let's not get into how many dirty warp nacelles I had to clean to grind the dil and fleet credits.
If I won't notice a change on my lvl 60 maxed out T5U Narcine, I won't mind. Everything would be fair and square. My two cents is that the Elite Mobulais are the best FED hangar pets in the game, clearly ahead of the Swarmers.
Having said that, my ship is being shown as having 80k hull. Every Mobulai has 87k hull.
Then again, just take the Borg sector daily: Me (and sometimes teammates) kill off the group before my Mobulai are even there. We fly to the next group, same thing over and over again. Plus those pilots must be high on Aldebaran Whisky or something like that because they love flying into warp core breaches, turning into a big ball of fire themselves.
So since they will be nerfing shields, hull AND weapons... I can see where this is going. And I don't like it. They might wind up with 15-20k hull, half the shields at best and squirt guns that can make "pew pew" like the Ferengi Rocket Launcher. Looks nice, but heck... it sucks.
They better make sure to at least critically think over other adaptions that fit the package and also the needs of carrier captains. *sigh*
In the strictest sense, that is true, of course. But I think fixing bugs should fall under the Hippocratic Oath paradigm: "Above all, do not harm!" If 'fixing' pets means totally breaking them again otherwise, then do nothing! At least until you figured out how to fix them properly.
I'm still not so convinced pets really weren't supposed to scale with the rest. And, if it really was a bug, i see it more like a 'Happy Accident,' which actually solved a problem, rather than add one.
And as far as paying customer, that is your choice. I've merely been a LTS since Open Beta, which even back then, I saw as worth more value than paying a sub every month, and it payed off at the 2 year mark.
That's just it though; they do listen to everything we say, and many devs do read the forums, even if they don't actually post that much. Just because they decided not to implement/change something doesn't mean it wasn't considered
And as for Cryptic, I don't particularly like them, nor do I have anything against them (or anything they'd done, in general or to me). It's more neutral, and to me, neutral is still enough cause to generally be on their side. And you'll notice that being on their side doesn't mean I actually praise them; just general defense stuff as I see fit. I don't argue for everything they've done, good or bad
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Really you're gonna try and compare this game to a pawn shop. What you see on that show are not the stores customers, they are not buying anything from that store they are selling to that store. So that will make them a supplier not a customer. Not a very good comparison in my opinion.
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
That was not what I meant. You still use a product that they have presented, but as the game IS F2P, it is also Pay to WIN. You indubitably have bought yourself C-Store ships, or at the VERY LEAST ZEN for dilithium. It's really hard to get anywhere in this game unless you drop SOMETHING here and there.
By the way, I'm not a lifer myself, and just recently became a monthly SUBSCRIBER. But even before THAT, I was putting money into the game in the way of ZEN for ships, and other things.
100% right And it was from the CEO (at the time) of Cryptic lmao
Sounds to me like you work there. How do you know that they "listen to everything we say, and devs do read the forums" when all we get from them most of the time is silence. If we just got more and better communication from them, even if we didn't agree with what they were doing. Most of the people complaining here would be much happier just to hear from them and have a better explanation to what they are doing. I don't think that is too much to ask from any company.
But I say that from experience. They say they play the game, and I have occasionally seen pink-colored names in-game (which is dev accounts), so obviously they must also have regular accounts that aren't meant for us to know it's them. And a number of times when people post issues here in the forums (in the proper sub-forums, respectfully state the issue, and steps about how it happened rather than just it's existence), they get an answer sometimes.
If they weren't looking into the forums every now and then, they wouldn't have seen those issues in the first place, much less posted in those threads.
To me, the above are just facts - and I generally take things as they are (or insofar as I see them; opinions and perspectives are different of course)
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
You either strive for a bug free game or accept a broken one. You may like this bug. I may like another, like the skill tray bug. Let's say I'm weird and think deleting my tray on every instance change is fun, should that be left alone? How about the bug that allowed D'Deridex Captains to destroy firiendly players on neutral maps? They seemed to have a helluva' fun with it.
I hope you're getting my point - the strictest sense is the only sense in these matters. Otherwise Cryptic may say - "well players like that bug, so we wont fix it! But now we like the SA beam out bug, so we'll keep that one as well."
Another very important part you're missing is that not everyone is affected by this bug. So we both could have the same carirer and pets, but mine could have 10k hull vs. yours 70k hull and mine do 5k DPS vs. yours doing 15k DPS. How on Earth is that fair and a 'happy accident'?
To an outsider to this personal feud it would seem the contribution to this thread has been to constantly attack Iconians. Here and elsewhere he has consistently provided reasoned posts on topic with a sense of humor when needed. Others fling thunderbolts.
By the way Iconians, who the heck is that character in your signature.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'