1. They're already public. People report it constantly, and there are several threads buried on the forums about it.
2. Then why not just say that? Read what the EP said about it. That people should have known better. That's what Ive been addressing.
3. By deeming numerously reported WORSE exploits (like Dyson, as well as others mentioned in this very thread), working as intended, it sets a precedent that they are not exploits. Therefore, similar and lesser occurrences can NOT be seen as people "knowing better."
It's as simple as 1+1=2.
A is not an exploit, so sayeth the development team.
B is not an exploit, so sayeth the development team.
C is similar to or lesser than both A and B. It is called an exploit, and even though it is less "exploitative" by their own definition, the players who did it should have known better, and deserve name-calling, disbelief, and ridicule. Also, they lose some of their stuff.
It doesn't matter that it was also reported beforehand, with no change or acknowledgement.
None of this screams "you dirty cheater" like some people are having fun implying, or flat-out saying here. No one "should have known better." Period.
your not making much sense so not gonna say much more
they have not to my knowledge said its okay to exploit in dyson. Since the dyson issues are not even related to the exploit the "fixed" in any way shape or form I am unsure how you can even bring it up. Yes people do exploit the battle zone. yes people have reported it (myself included) No cryptic has not as of yet fixed it. NO it is not okay to exploit in dyson battle zone simply because cryptic has not fixed it. I also dont think cyrptic has said those exploits are 'working as intended' ...
That is about all that can be really said about it.
And people in dyson zone who do exploit are cheaters and should know better. There is nothing more to be said about it. I actualy refuse to group in the zone and only solo in it because of the level of shenanigans that go on in there.
Its still not okay even if they dont fix it. and yes the people exploiting it are 'dirty rotten cheaters' lol (which is kinda why i wont group when in the zone) :eek:
Sorry, but ignorance is no defence... Cry foul that you did not know all you want... You went there with the express purpose of gaining more XP than you could elsewhere...
Failing to realise this was an exploit does not change the fact you utilised it, and are now complaining you were caught and punished...
Being pulled over for speeding and then telling the officer 'I'm sorry, I didn't know I was speeding, I missed the speed sign..' will not get you out of the speeding ticket as you have done wrong...
Ignorance is no defence...
Easier enemies which were providing just as much XP as their 60 counterparts... Alarm bells should have rung here...
Again, even if you did not know, it does not change the situation...
ignorance is no defence.... even cops dont tell you that anymore about law cause they re no longer alowed to.
But if you still belive it that then apply it when you get randomly shoot at or your car get melt with another one cause you were ignorant it would happend to you going there or there....
and please stop acusing others of cheating / exploiting when you obvously have no clue of what it means.
and for the actual subject I know for sure it's not an exploit or cryptic would have to turn down every sector of galaxy for the same reason NPC are the same and scalled the same in all sectors between normal and elite depending on what NPC it is.
Yes I wont tell you how to do the exacte same thing anywhere else cause there probably groups of people doing it everywhere on 'galaxy map" and dont want mass people to join then and risk being rollback for just playing same content again & again.
On that "playing same content again & again" do I have to remind you and criptic that for accolades it's necesary ? like doing 70 times same patrol missions, or borg alert ? is that an exploit then ? then criptic forcing us to 'exploit' to get accolades mm ?
"Do this again & again to get that but we'll punish you for doing what we told you to do!"(that's what a friend next to me said when I eplained him... no need to tell you he will never join STO...
This happened in Taw Dewa cause it was easier since a lot of people looking for ROM marks, one of the hardest/longer to get. but it could have happened on any other type of missions even on Warzones with some player organisations. Oh wait your gonna tell me that if player are planing togerther to do something it's also an exploit ? I hope you dont dare tell us that about an MMO.
And against Cryptic, here my though : if more than half the game wasnt buged/unplayable like this :
- Borg alert in any sectors (XP boost isnt that an exploit mm ?) where final boss doesnt show up 4/5 times.
- broken Q like KSE etc
- Boffs and now DOFFs disapearing each time you map move
- Doff assignement that start other assignement than the one you choose (R&D) system
- Doff assignement being so slow to complete when they actualy want to start (grey start buton)
- most of new content/story live but unplayable or crash system
and right now I'm prety bored of naming them but there probably another 1000 of them and some havent been adressed for years.
Guess what Craptic ? people wouldnt go elsewhere like Taw Dewa Japori or ... many others I can think of to lvl up if your new content was lplayable.
If we haven't told you 1000 times we haven't told u once, FIX actual content before throwing us that much crapy content barely playable, breaking and especialy when you are breaking (again) most of actual one.
And I'm not even talking about successive truly resources sink you have put in game last few months it's insane and also not acceptable.
so for what happened on rollback with players , I truly hope players, even those like me that were not affected, strike back for once.
Insulting is useless and will lead nowhere btw.
but spreading the word, expllaining to anyone that want to listen in game what happened, pointing at this forum trhread, no lie, no alteration and let them decide to act or not.
For me I'm simply no longer playing Q or any/new content, just doing doffing while speaking with friends,
no more 'charge zen", not even buying ships with dili since I saw what you did with old FPE.
most of my chars are already lvl52-54 without doing anything else...
unfortunatly looking at how your dealing with crysis I'm prety sure I'll get bored of waiting for Cryptic to solve anything. I'm usualy prety patient btw...
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
your not making much sense so not gonna say much more
they have not to my knowledge said its okay to exploit in dyson. Since the dyson issues are not even related to the exploit the "fixed" in any way shape or form I am unsure how you can even bring it up. Yes people do exploit the battle zone. yes people have reported it (myself included) No cryptic has not as of yet fixed it. NO it is not okay to exploit in dyson battle zone simply because cryptic has not fixed it. I also dont think cyrptic has said those exploits are 'working as intended' ...
That is about all that can be really said about it.
And people in dyson zone who do exploit are cheaters and should know better. There is nothing more to be said about it. I actualy refuse to group in the zone and only solo in it because of the level of shenanigans that go on in there.
Its still not okay even if they dont fix it. and yes the people exploiting it are 'dirty rotten cheaters' lol (which is kinda why i wont group when in the zone) :eek:
They are both commonly thought of as "exploitative." The rewards in question are irrelevant.
You can't be serious, and I shouldn't be feeding the troll.
Once again, when have I denied that the actions of a few in the Dyson Ground Battlezone are in any way ethical... I'm well aware it's open for exploitation and of varying ways to do so...
However, the point I have been trying to make here from the very beginning, is that one does not automatically validate the other, yet you accuse me of being obtuse...
The issues and indeed the mechanics themselves, behind the two situations in question are in fact very different...
Once again, had the Dyson Battleground exploitation been about XP and deemed to be Working As Intended, then yes, it does indeed set a precedent and I would have agreed many, many posts ago that Cryptic were indeed wrong to admonish anyone using Tau Dewa patrols...
However, the issues related to apparent exploitation of the Dyson Ground Battlezone are not about XP... They are about dilithium acquisition, hence they do not specifically set any form of precedent for the entire basis of this thread...
Had the dilithium exponentially increased based on the level of the player, and this was then deemed to be Working As Intended, which it does not, then maybe there would be justification for this stance...
Otherwise, you are still making a straw man argument...
ignorance is no defence.... even cops dont tell you that anymore about law cause they re no longer alowed to.
But if you still belive it that then apply it when you get randomly shoot at or your car get melt with another one cause you were ignorant it would happend to you going there or there....
and please stop acusing others of cheating / exploiting when you obvously have no clue of what it means.
Try committing an offence and fronting up before the judge : "I'm sorry your honour, I was ignorant to the fact that my actions were in breach of the law..." and see how far that defence gets you...
At best, you may get a lighter sentence, but you're exceedingly unlikely to get off without formal penalty if that's the best justification you have...
I am well aware of what the term 'exploit' means, to even suggest I do not would in fact suggest you are unclear on the term, so...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In video games, an exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1] Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.
Although I've said it several times, my argument is about the "people should've known better" phrase that the EP, you, and others are touting, not the exploit itself. You've been chasing the wrong windmill.
Maybe back up and actually read what I've posted, instead of uniformly just trying to chase down "exploiters" and "cheaters." And you wonder why you're being called a dev apologist.
your logic is flawed but that is why some people seem to think what happened was okay and why people are angry and wanting to sue them and stuff.
them not fixing dyson does not mean its okay for people to exploit. It also has no bearing on what crytpic has done and why. They just dont for the moment think the dyson issue is top priority so are ignoring it. On the other hand they thought the xp thing with the maps released were a priority so they did something about it.
I think its you that dont understand and why your so angry at them and feeling its unjustified for them to take a stand on something they obviously felt was important to deal with. It doesnt matter if you felt it was not important and it doesnt matter if you think or feel dyson is more important.
In either case you should not exploit in either case you may or may not get caught for now.. your not caught in dyson but maybe next week you will be so feel free to exploit away with this logic "its okay because cryptic has not fixed it and called it cheating" or whatever your issue is with them not ...but beware your could regret your decision to exploit just because you can...
Although I've said it several times, my argument is about the "people should've known better" phrase that the EP, you, and others are touting, not the exploit itself. You've been chasing the wrong windmill.
Maybe back up and actually read what I've posted, instead of uniformly just trying to chase down "exploiters" and "cheaters." And you wonder why you're being called a dev apologist.
I see, well, my stance there is still a pragmatic one... Not knowing you were exploiting still does not make you innocent of doing so and, as such, a penalty is still within reason...
Unfortunately, this does not make your Dyson Ground Battlezone analogy any more particularly suitable, as unknowingly using the mechanics of the Ground BZ, in an unintended fashion, still means you are using an exploit...
your logic is flawed but that is why some people seem to think what happened was okay and why people are angry and wanting to sue them and stuff.
them not fixing dyson does not mean its okay for people to exploit. It also has no bearing on what crytpic has done and why. They just dont for the moment think the dyson issue is top priority so are ignoring it. On the other hand they thought the xp thing with the maps released were a priority so they did something about it.
I think its you that dont understand and why your so angry at them and feeling its unjustified for them to take a stand on something they obviously felt was important to deal with. It doesnt matter if you felt it was not important and it doesnt matter if you think or feel dyson is more important.
In either case you should not exploit in either case you may or may not get caught for now.. your not caught in dyson but maybe next week you will be so feel free to exploit away with this logic "its okay because cryptic has not fixed it and called it cheating" or whatever your issue is with them not ...but beware your could regret your decision to exploit just because you can...
I'm not angry. I didn't lose anything. I don't know anyone who has lost any points or anything.The only thing that doesn't sit right with me is anyone saying these people should have known better. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, at best.
There are people being called cheats and exploiters, in this thread when they're saying that they didn't know they were exploiting anything.
I see, well, my stance there is still a pragmatic one... Not knowing you were exploiting still does not make you innocent of doing so and, as such, a penalty is still within reason...
Unfortunately, this does not make your Dyson Ground Battlezone analogy any more particularly suitable, as unknowingly using the mechanics of the Ground BZ, in an unintended fashion, still means you are using an exploit...
If it is deemed working as intended, it is not an exploit. If you show me where the devs have said that they intend to fix the so-called "exploitative behavior," that is different.
As much as I may or may not like it, they define exploit. If they have not deemed similar things as such, no one should know better.
And Dyson was just ONE example. Others have stated more.
I'm not angry. I didn't lose anything. I don't know anyone who has lost any points or anything.The only thing that doesn't sit right with me is anyone saying these people should have known better. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, at best.
There are people being called cheats and exploiters, in this thread when they're saying that they didn't know they were exploiting anything.
There is an old saying...
If something seems to good to be true, then it probably is...
If the XP gain from Tau Dewa seemed so good that it attracted a large number of people, someone, somewhere, would have no doubt raised the validity of it and I have no doubt many wondered why the XP gain was so good, whether they considered the fact it may be an exploit is not the issue...
The simple truth is they utilised an unintended mechanic, and are now crying foul after being penalised for doing so...
Those who feel they were admonished unfairly or incorrectly have 3 courses of action :
Accept the punishment and move on, whether justified or not.
Open a ticket and hope that Cryptic Customer Support listen and consider their situation before returning the points if they were punished incorrectly.
If it is deemed working as intended, it is not an exploit. If you show me where the devs have said that they intend to fix the so-called "exploitative behavior," that is different.
As much as I may or may not like it, they define exploit. If they have not deemed similar things as such, no one should know better.
And Dyson was just ONE example. Others have stated more.
Which is where I can understand the frustrations of many, but once again, simply being pragmatic about this situation, it does not change it...
If someone thought it too good to be true, stop and wait until a Dev said the XP gain was Working As Intended or until such time as no action was taken...
Problem with this stance, refering back to my 3 day ban in Fallen Earth, the use of the instance I was referring to went on for months, possibly longer than a year, before the Devs decided it was an exploit during a pass on the game's economy and crafting...
Cryptic, as the publisher, as any publisher does in fact, have the rights to change the conditions of the service... This is just a fact of life and applies in all client/company situations...
I'm not angry. I didn't lose anything. I don't know anyone who has lost any points or anything.The only thing that doesn't sit right with me is anyone saying these people should have known better. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, at best.
There are people being called cheats and exploiters, in this thread when they're saying that they didn't know they were exploiting anything.
I guess your more trusting then me. In my case I think they did know. I saw one case where the person stated they didnt know how to judge what level something was okay then in this case they might not have known but still the assumption is that you will know how to tell if you outlevel something. I mean I know and figured it out in a few seconds (the level is shown as being +x, -x above or below your level so if something is level 60 and your level 55 it will show up as +5. If something is your level you see a 0 and if something is below your level you see it as a negative number) I think most if not all cases the issue was with levels in some way. I have not seen an example yet that didnt say to me otherwise.
I see a lot of people being told how to exploit in dyson its obviously not the way the zone should be played but still people outwardly explain these exploits as an example of legitimate gameplay in the zone. Now I can tell right off this is not the right way. I am just an average person but still I know for a fact this is not proper gameplay when its explained. I am pretty sure in most cases people know deep down that this is not the way it works. I mean you hear people ranting about it in zone chat almost every day.. so.. yeah.. i highly doubt people can say "i didnt know".
The level thing well I guess one needs to learn about levels then because me seeing a -5 and seeing the massive xp coming off the mobs set off an alarm bell. Logically the high xp should come from a mob above my level. Honestly though if you have played this game for 50 odd levels and claim to be all skilled and know how to build ships well etc etc I find it very very hard to believe you can't tell the level of the mobs your fighting something does not add up. One minute people are spewing stats and math and building a ship and the next minute they can't read a number beside a mob and tell what level it is?
I think I already posted it but Cryptic is having math issue :
on kdf side, do a space Capture & Hold, with a FAW boat and try to kill the 48 turrets there is on enemy space station to complete the so called "daily" "the most dangerous ... space" where you have to kill 50 NPC
when entering the map I had 7, after killing them, alone, I was at 48 kills
7+48 = 48
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
And that old saying is why I used Dyson ground as an example. Now do you get it?
In of itself, no... The circumstances are not closely enough aligned to validate one or the other...
The XP from Tau Dewa patrols were a direct result of changes to the game, not a side-effect of instance-hopping or the way in which the game engine records 'tagging' enemies or objectives...
There are very different underlying causes for the potential exploitation of either, and so I personally cannot see a direct correlation between them..
Had the end result been similar, that being rapid XP gain or rapid dilithium acquisition, in both examples, then yes, there would be a precedent...
Precedence must be able to tie both examples together neatly, otherwise it's merely anecdotal, and open to interpretation...
In of itself, no... The circumstances are not closely enough aligned to validate one or the other...
The XP from Tau Dewa patrols were a direct result of changes to the game, not a side-effect of instance-hopping or the way in which the game engine records 'tagging' enemies or objectives...
There are very different underlying causes for the potential exploitation of either, and so I personally cannot see a direct correlation between them..
Had the end result been similar, that being rapid XP gain or rapid dilithium acquisition, in both examples, then yes, there would be a precedent...
Precedence must be able to tie both examples together neatly, otherwise it's merely anecdotal, and open to interpretation...
Tagging dinos *working as intended* isn't "too good to be true" in this context?
Try committing an offence and fronting up before the judge : "I'm sorry your honour, I was ignorant to the fact that my actions were in breach of the law..." and see how far that defence gets you...
At best, you may get a lighter sentence, but you're exceedingly unlikely to get off without formal penalty if that's the best justification you have...
I am well aware of what the term 'exploit' means, to even suggest I do not would in fact suggest you are unclear on the term, so...
lol another proof you havent read or understand half what someone said... since I was refering to the victime that was ignorent not the oposite...
but dont worry unlike you I understand why your answering like that
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
I think I already posted it but Cryptic is having math issue :
on kdf side, do a space Capture & Hold, with a FAW boat and try to kill the 48 turrets there is on enemy space station to complete the so called "daily" "the most dangerous ... space" where you have to kill 50 NPC
when entering the map I had 7, after killing them, alone, I was at 48 kills
Tagging dinos *working as intended* isn't "too good to be true" in this context?
/facepalm
Never said it wasn't... I even went so far as to mention the problem exists within the engine in how it registers tagging of enemies and of objectives...
However, this is an entirely different underlying problem and a different set of mechanics in question...
The end result, and gain to be made, is also entirely different, which is the basis of my stance...
Try committing an offence and fronting up before the judge : "I'm sorry your honour, I was ignorant to the fact that my actions were in breach of the law..." and see how far that defence gets you...
At best, you may get a lighter sentence, but you're exceedingly unlikely to get off without formal penalty if that's the best justification you have...
I am well aware of what the term 'exploit' means, to even suggest I do not would in fact suggest you are unclear on the term, so...
Someone who has been accused of an offense is not the 'victim', they are the alleged perpetrator...
If they were the victim, there would be no need for their attempting to use their ignorance when mounting a defense...
In this situation, those who have been accused by Cryptic of exploitation are not 'victims' or 'innocent bystanders', they would be considered to be the alleged offender, if this was a criminal matter...
What I said stands as correct as being ignorant to committing an offence does not immediately exonerate you of doing so...
I guess your more trusting then me. In my case I think they did know. I saw one case where the person stated they didnt know how to judge what level something was okay then in this case they might not have known but still the assumption is that you will know how to tell if you outlevel something. I mean I know and figured it out in a few seconds (the level is shown as being +x, -x above or below your level so if something is level 60 and your level 55 it will show up as +5. If something is your level you see a 0 and if something is below your level you see it as a negative number) I think most if not all cases the issue was with levels in some way. I have not seen an example yet that didnt say to me otherwise.
I see a lot of people being told how to exploit in dyson its obviously not the way the zone should be played but still people outwardly explain these exploits as an example of legitimate gameplay in the zone. Now I can tell right off this is not the right way. I am just an average person but still I know for a fact this is not proper gameplay when its explained. I am pretty sure in most cases people know deep down that this is not the way it works. I mean you hear people ranting about it in zone chat almost every day.. so.. yeah.. i highly doubt people can say "i didnt know".
The level thing well I guess one needs to learn about levels then because me seeing a -5 and seeing the massive xp coming off the mobs set off an alarm bell. Logically the high xp should come from a mob above my level. Honestly though if you have played this game for 50 odd levels and claim to be all skilled and know how to build ships well etc etc I find it very very hard to believe you can't tell the level of the mobs your fighting something does not add up. One minute people are spewing stats and math and building a ship and the next minute they can't read a number beside a mob and tell what level it is?
It's more "innocent until proven guilty" than being trusting. :P
And its irrelevant what we deem as "exploits." I'm not saying that's good or bad. All we can do is cite precedents to figure out what we shouldn't be doing. Dino tagging is the one I brought up as an example. If they don't see it as "too good to be true," then neither should we. There are others, but that's the one I always see as ridiculously easy time vs reward, with it constantly being call cheating or an exploit by players.
People did these patrol things before DR. They did it on Tribble. They told the devs about it pre-launch. I simply cant see how it can be on the players for doing something they "know" they "shouldn't."
I realistically can't say something isn't an exploit if the devs say it is. It's their playground, their rules. However, they can't prove someone's intent, especially if there is any indication they could be wrong (which there is).
And players being quick to label people negatively is just plain wrong.
Never said it wasn't... I even went so far as to mention the problem exists within the engine in how it registers tagging of enemies and of objectives...
However, this is an entirely different underlying problem and a different set of mechanics in question...
The end result and gain to be made is also entirely different, which is the basis of my stance...
Ummm, just to reiterate my post....
Someone who has been accused of an offense is not the 'victim', they are the alleged perpetrator...
If they were the victim, there would be no need for their attempting to use their ignorance when mounting a defense...
In this situation, those who have been accused by Cryptic of exploitation are not 'victims' or 'innocent bystanders', they would be considered to be the alleged offender, if this was a criminal matter...
What I said stands as correct...
guess again, trust me one day u'll understand (I truly hope for you sir)
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
Never said it wasn't... I even went so far as to mention the problem exists within the engine in how it registers tagging of enemies and of objectives...
However, this is an entirely different underlying problem and a different set of mechanics in question...
The end result and gain to be made is also entirely different, which is the basis of my stance...
The mechanics and rewards of it are irrelevant (as I keep stating), and you know it. That has nothing to do with what I just said.
Too good to be true.
Too good to be true #2.
Too good to be true #3.
Too good to be true #4.
Which one of those is something we should know better than to do? Hint: some of them are nearly identical, some have been going on for a very long time, and all have been reported by players as "cheating."
It's more "innocent until proven guilty" than being trusting. :P
And its irrelevant what we deem as "exploits." I'm not saying that's good or bad. All we can do is cite precedents to figure out what we shouldn't be doing. Dino tagging is the one I brought up as an example. If they don't see it as "too good to be true," then neither should we. There are others, but that's the one I always see as ridiculously easy time vs reward, with it constantly being call cheating or an exploit by players.
People did these patrol things before DR. They did it on Tribble. They told the devs about it pre-launch. I simply cant see how it can be on the players for doing something they "know" they "shouldn't."
I realistically can't say something isn't an exploit if the devs say it is. It's their playground, their rules. However, they can't prove someone's intent, especially if there is any indication they could be wrong (which there is).
And players being quick to label people negatively is just plain wrong.
just like I said for the accolade system:
Cryptic force you to do it again & again to get them then punish you for doing it, so logical isnt it ?
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
Comments
your not making much sense so not gonna say much more
they have not to my knowledge said its okay to exploit in dyson. Since the dyson issues are not even related to the exploit the "fixed" in any way shape or form I am unsure how you can even bring it up. Yes people do exploit the battle zone. yes people have reported it (myself included) No cryptic has not as of yet fixed it. NO it is not okay to exploit in dyson battle zone simply because cryptic has not fixed it. I also dont think cyrptic has said those exploits are 'working as intended' ...
That is about all that can be really said about it.
And people in dyson zone who do exploit are cheaters and should know better. There is nothing more to be said about it. I actualy refuse to group in the zone and only solo in it because of the level of shenanigans that go on in there.
Its still not okay even if they dont fix it. and yes the people exploiting it are 'dirty rotten cheaters' lol (which is kinda why i wont group when in the zone) :eek:
I'm sorry but no, 1+1=42 and nobody better try to tell Mr EP otherwise.
No, no, the rules have changed! Haven't you heard?! Nowadays, 1 + 1 = 17. :P
ignorance is no defence.... even cops dont tell you that anymore about law cause they re no longer alowed to.
But if you still belive it that then apply it when you get randomly shoot at or your car get melt with another one cause you were ignorant it would happend to you going there or there....
and please stop acusing others of cheating / exploiting when you obvously have no clue of what it means.
and for the actual subject I know for sure it's not an exploit or cryptic would have to turn down every sector of galaxy for the same reason NPC are the same and scalled the same in all sectors between normal and elite depending on what NPC it is.
Yes I wont tell you how to do the exacte same thing anywhere else cause there probably groups of people doing it everywhere on 'galaxy map" and dont want mass people to join then and risk being rollback for just playing same content again & again.
On that "playing same content again & again" do I have to remind you and criptic that for accolades it's necesary ? like doing 70 times same patrol missions, or borg alert ? is that an exploit then ? then criptic forcing us to 'exploit' to get accolades mm ?
"Do this again & again to get that but we'll punish you for doing what we told you to do!"(that's what a friend next to me said when I eplained him... no need to tell you he will never join STO...
This happened in Taw Dewa cause it was easier since a lot of people looking for ROM marks, one of the hardest/longer to get. but it could have happened on any other type of missions even on Warzones with some player organisations. Oh wait your gonna tell me that if player are planing togerther to do something it's also an exploit ? I hope you dont dare tell us that about an MMO.
And against Cryptic, here my though : if more than half the game wasnt buged/unplayable like this :
- Borg alert in any sectors (XP boost isnt that an exploit mm ?) where final boss doesnt show up 4/5 times.
- broken Q like KSE etc
- Boffs and now DOFFs disapearing each time you map move
- Doff assignement that start other assignement than the one you choose (R&D) system
- Doff assignement being so slow to complete when they actualy want to start (grey start buton)
- most of new content/story live but unplayable or crash system
and right now I'm prety bored of naming them but there probably another 1000 of them and some havent been adressed for years.
Guess what Craptic ? people wouldnt go elsewhere like Taw Dewa Japori or ... many others I can think of to lvl up if your new content was lplayable.
If we haven't told you 1000 times we haven't told u once, FIX actual content before throwing us that much crapy content barely playable, breaking and especialy when you are breaking (again) most of actual one.
And I'm not even talking about successive truly resources sink you have put in game last few months it's insane and also not acceptable.
so for what happened on rollback with players , I truly hope players, even those like me that were not affected, strike back for once.
Insulting is useless and will lead nowhere btw.
but spreading the word, expllaining to anyone that want to listen in game what happened, pointing at this forum trhread, no lie, no alteration and let them decide to act or not.
For me I'm simply no longer playing Q or any/new content, just doing doffing while speaking with friends,
no more 'charge zen", not even buying ships with dili since I saw what you did with old FPE.
most of my chars are already lvl52-54 without doing anything else...
unfortunatly looking at how your dealing with crysis I'm prety sure I'll get bored of waiting for Cryptic to solve anything. I'm usualy prety patient btw...
Actually 1 + 1 =
A window, when constructed properly.
Touche.
This is just utter garbage.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
Doesnt it depend on your DPS? :eek:
I'm sorry that you don't understand.
ROFL omg guys this sh*t just made my night, thanks
Once again, when have I denied that the actions of a few in the Dyson Ground Battlezone are in any way ethical... I'm well aware it's open for exploitation and of varying ways to do so...
However, the point I have been trying to make here from the very beginning, is that one does not automatically validate the other, yet you accuse me of being obtuse...
The issues and indeed the mechanics themselves, behind the two situations in question are in fact very different...
Once again, had the Dyson Battleground exploitation been about XP and deemed to be Working As Intended, then yes, it does indeed set a precedent and I would have agreed many, many posts ago that Cryptic were indeed wrong to admonish anyone using Tau Dewa patrols...
However, the issues related to apparent exploitation of the Dyson Ground Battlezone are not about XP... They are about dilithium acquisition, hence they do not specifically set any form of precedent for the entire basis of this thread...
Had the dilithium exponentially increased based on the level of the player, and this was then deemed to be Working As Intended, which it does not, then maybe there would be justification for this stance...
Otherwise, you are still making a straw man argument...
Try committing an offence and fronting up before the judge : "I'm sorry your honour, I was ignorant to the fact that my actions were in breach of the law..." and see how far that defence gets you...
At best, you may get a lighter sentence, but you're exceedingly unlikely to get off without formal penalty if that's the best justification you have...
I am well aware of what the term 'exploit' means, to even suggest I do not would in fact suggest you are unclear on the term, so...
Although I've said it several times, my argument is about the "people should've known better" phrase that the EP, you, and others are touting, not the exploit itself. You've been chasing the wrong windmill.
Maybe back up and actually read what I've posted, instead of uniformly just trying to chase down "exploiters" and "cheaters." And you wonder why you're being called a dev apologist.
your logic is flawed but that is why some people seem to think what happened was okay and why people are angry and wanting to sue them and stuff.
them not fixing dyson does not mean its okay for people to exploit. It also has no bearing on what crytpic has done and why. They just dont for the moment think the dyson issue is top priority so are ignoring it. On the other hand they thought the xp thing with the maps released were a priority so they did something about it.
I think its you that dont understand and why your so angry at them and feeling its unjustified for them to take a stand on something they obviously felt was important to deal with. It doesnt matter if you felt it was not important and it doesnt matter if you think or feel dyson is more important.
In either case you should not exploit in either case you may or may not get caught for now.. your not caught in dyson but maybe next week you will be so feel free to exploit away with this logic "its okay because cryptic has not fixed it and called it cheating" or whatever your issue is with them not ...but beware your could regret your decision to exploit just because you can...
I see, well, my stance there is still a pragmatic one... Not knowing you were exploiting still does not make you innocent of doing so and, as such, a penalty is still within reason...
Unfortunately, this does not make your Dyson Ground Battlezone analogy any more particularly suitable, as unknowingly using the mechanics of the Ground BZ, in an unintended fashion, still means you are using an exploit...
I'm not angry. I didn't lose anything. I don't know anyone who has lost any points or anything.The only thing that doesn't sit right with me is anyone saying these people should have known better. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, at best.
There are people being called cheats and exploiters, in this thread when they're saying that they didn't know they were exploiting anything.
If it is deemed working as intended, it is not an exploit. If you show me where the devs have said that they intend to fix the so-called "exploitative behavior," that is different.
As much as I may or may not like it, they define exploit. If they have not deemed similar things as such, no one should know better.
And Dyson was just ONE example. Others have stated more.
There is an old saying...
If the XP gain from Tau Dewa seemed so good that it attracted a large number of people, someone, somewhere, would have no doubt raised the validity of it and I have no doubt many wondered why the XP gain was so good, whether they considered the fact it may be an exploit is not the issue...
The simple truth is they utilised an unintended mechanic, and are now crying foul after being penalised for doing so...
Those who feel they were admonished unfairly or incorrectly have 3 courses of action :
Which is where I can understand the frustrations of many, but once again, simply being pragmatic about this situation, it does not change it...
If someone thought it too good to be true, stop and wait until a Dev said the XP gain was Working As Intended or until such time as no action was taken...
Problem with this stance, refering back to my 3 day ban in Fallen Earth, the use of the instance I was referring to went on for months, possibly longer than a year, before the Devs decided it was an exploit during a pass on the game's economy and crafting...
Cryptic, as the publisher, as any publisher does in fact, have the rights to change the conditions of the service... This is just a fact of life and applies in all client/company situations...
And that old saying is why I used Dyson ground as an example. Now do you get it?
I guess your more trusting then me. In my case I think they did know. I saw one case where the person stated they didnt know how to judge what level something was okay then in this case they might not have known but still the assumption is that you will know how to tell if you outlevel something. I mean I know and figured it out in a few seconds (the level is shown as being +x, -x above or below your level so if something is level 60 and your level 55 it will show up as +5. If something is your level you see a 0 and if something is below your level you see it as a negative number) I think most if not all cases the issue was with levels in some way. I have not seen an example yet that didnt say to me otherwise.
I see a lot of people being told how to exploit in dyson its obviously not the way the zone should be played but still people outwardly explain these exploits as an example of legitimate gameplay in the zone. Now I can tell right off this is not the right way. I am just an average person but still I know for a fact this is not proper gameplay when its explained. I am pretty sure in most cases people know deep down that this is not the way it works. I mean you hear people ranting about it in zone chat almost every day.. so.. yeah.. i highly doubt people can say "i didnt know".
The level thing well I guess one needs to learn about levels then because me seeing a -5 and seeing the massive xp coming off the mobs set off an alarm bell. Logically the high xp should come from a mob above my level. Honestly though if you have played this game for 50 odd levels and claim to be all skilled and know how to build ships well etc etc I find it very very hard to believe you can't tell the level of the mobs your fighting something does not add up. One minute people are spewing stats and math and building a ship and the next minute they can't read a number beside a mob and tell what level it is?
I think I already posted it but Cryptic is having math issue :
on kdf side, do a space Capture & Hold, with a FAW boat and try to kill the 48 turrets there is on enemy space station to complete the so called "daily" "the most dangerous ... space" where you have to kill 50 NPC
when entering the map I had 7, after killing them, alone, I was at 48 kills
7+48 = 48
In of itself, no... The circumstances are not closely enough aligned to validate one or the other...
The XP from Tau Dewa patrols were a direct result of changes to the game, not a side-effect of instance-hopping or the way in which the game engine records 'tagging' enemies or objectives...
There are very different underlying causes for the potential exploitation of either, and so I personally cannot see a direct correlation between them..
Had the end result been similar, that being rapid XP gain or rapid dilithium acquisition, in both examples, then yes, there would be a precedent...
Precedence must be able to tie both examples together neatly, otherwise it's merely anecdotal, and open to interpretation...
Tagging dinos *working as intended* isn't "too good to be true" in this context?
/facepalm
lol another proof you havent read or understand half what someone said... since I was refering to the victime that was ignorent not the oposite...
but dont worry unlike you I understand why your answering like that
LOL like they even look at KDF stuff. :P
Never said it wasn't... I even went so far as to mention the problem exists within the engine in how it registers tagging of enemies and of objectives...
However, this is an entirely different underlying problem and a different set of mechanics in question...
The end result, and gain to be made, is also entirely different, which is the basis of my stance...
Ummm, just to reiterate my post....
Someone who has been accused of an offense is not the 'victim', they are the alleged perpetrator...
If they were the victim, there would be no need for their attempting to use their ignorance when mounting a defense...
In this situation, those who have been accused by Cryptic of exploitation are not 'victims' or 'innocent bystanders', they would be considered to be the alleged offender, if this was a criminal matter...
What I said stands as correct as being ignorant to committing an offence does not immediately exonerate you of doing so...
It's more "innocent until proven guilty" than being trusting. :P
And its irrelevant what we deem as "exploits." I'm not saying that's good or bad. All we can do is cite precedents to figure out what we shouldn't be doing. Dino tagging is the one I brought up as an example. If they don't see it as "too good to be true," then neither should we. There are others, but that's the one I always see as ridiculously easy time vs reward, with it constantly being call cheating or an exploit by players.
People did these patrol things before DR. They did it on Tribble. They told the devs about it pre-launch. I simply cant see how it can be on the players for doing something they "know" they "shouldn't."
I realistically can't say something isn't an exploit if the devs say it is. It's their playground, their rules. However, they can't prove someone's intent, especially if there is any indication they could be wrong (which there is).
And players being quick to label people negatively is just plain wrong.
guess again, trust me one day u'll understand
The mechanics and rewards of it are irrelevant (as I keep stating), and you know it. That has nothing to do with what I just said.
Too good to be true.
Too good to be true #2.
Too good to be true #3.
Too good to be true #4.
Which one of those is something we should know better than to do? Hint: some of them are nearly identical, some have been going on for a very long time, and all have been reported by players as "cheating."
just like I said for the accolade system:
Cryptic force you to do it again & again to get them then punish you for doing it, so logical isnt it ?