Yes, that means an actual grind. They have right to implement one, just because some people don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm kinda tired of having to hear about how everyone wants everything now, and how the slightest change is the end of everything.
They made is quite clear they did NOT want us to power through the current phase of DR story content, which means they know some of you were done a week ago...
Ah I love Cryptic apologetics.
If this is just fixing the crafting drop, I get it, it screws with their bottom line, which they just can't have.
But if it's an issue of using the patrols to grind, that is an issue. As you say it's an actual grind. Now what they're saying is that you have to grind the way they tell us to, and any other type of grinding we want to do is bad, and we'll shut it down.
I get it, Delta Rising isn't a game, it's a job and work, so I agree with you. I get it that they need to be careful with anything that effects Dilithium and crafting, because they want the money from the crafting boxes.
But to tell us when, where, and how we need to grind is railroading to the extreme.
You know, y'all are reading a lot into the words "the sector is under quarantine".
Apparently, it got shut down to fix something. What was the something? Who knows? Maybe Romulan rep stopped adding up, or epohhs were showing up aboard ships, or something. Point is, without more data, y'all are guessing - and like most pitchfork-waving mobs, you're guessing the very worst things you can think of.
Now, if it comes back up and has been nerfed in the fashion you fear, I'll bring the torches. Until then, mob rule is a lousy way to run an interstellar empire.
You really think they would do it all of a sudden right now if it was that kind of stuff? Please.
Then when mirror event pop twice a day, you can do 3-4 level during happy hour.
Story missions are there if you like them or you might even like the special rewards here and there.
THAT was the premise I played STO under, NOT hey let's go full re.... and have them replay 100 story missions to 60 and then just delete everything else.
Yes, that means an actual grind. They have right to implement one, just because some people don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm kinda tired of having to hear about how everyone wants everything now, and how the slightest change is the end of everything.
They made is quite clear they did NOT want us to power through the current phase of DR story content, which means they know some of you were done a week ago...
I agree, this is what they want. Players to keep playing and slowly build their way up. Since they only providing a few episodes for the story to progress. Also it prevents players from beating it in 2-3 days. Then getting on the forums fussing and crying saying they want more. Which is usually the case for most games. The other alternative was to create a lot of episodes or side missions to allow a better way to level up. Since they didn't you have to kinda grind. To me that won't matter. As the next episode will soon come.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Personally i blame you for this nerf. keep stuff like this in fleet chat. In the military its call operational security, or OPSEC. basically keep your mouth shut for the success of a mission. Because you posted a How-to. you skylined the grind to the devs, who in turn did what they just did.
You're not the only one placing blame squarely upon the "HEY!!!! EVERYONE!!!! COME POWERLEVEL!!! WHO CARES IF THE COMMUNITY MANAGERS TELL THE DEVS ABOUT IT!!!!" thread. :rolleyes:
would certainly be interesting to see the devs' reaction to a sizeable chunk of players not logging in for a day.
I'd personally like to see any reaction out of them at this point. Farktoid is just doing his job by informing us about Tau Dewa.
But I would really love to hear from one of the higher ups in complete honesty why this is being done.
I've not logged in for a bit until simple games like Fleet Alert no longer require me to be in a high DPS Escort to have a chance at succeeding. But I am not willing to go to Tau Dewa to work around the Delta Rising content.
For 700 Zen my ship should be perfoming a lot better in space combat than signifigantly and noticably worse. I know I am not the only player that feels this way.
How miserable do we have to be before PWE/Cryptic is happy?
Obviously it wouldn't work, but would certainly be interesting to see the devs' reaction to a sizeable chunk of players not logging in for a day.
Come tomorrow, we may well find half the zones 'under quarantine' upon login, as is. Cleverly choosing your preferred way to grind/level up is now apparently considered an exploit. I've rarely seen devs sabotage their own game so wantonly.
Y'know, what if we all just gave the devs a nice little feedback of our own. Obviously it wouldn't work, but would certainly be interesting to see the devs' reaction to a sizeable chunk of players not logging in for a day.
They couldn't care less about a day or even a week. It tends not to effect their bottom line anyway.
Two, there are enough fanboi's around that will still play and pay double what they normall pay because well... they're fanboi's and Cryptic can do no wrong. Heck just look at the posts in this thread and you'll see a goodly number of them.
Third, to be honest the general population doesn't care enough about this fix. They're more concerned with the HP bug because it stops them from getting certain BNPs. They're more then willing to just grind Queues and couldn't be bothered with Tau Dewa.
What they don't understand is once Cryptic starts the idea of "play how we tell you to" it doesn't and won't end with just that. They'll keep going and going until they get the result they want.
Yeah people just learned recently the way we KDF leveled back in the old days. Find a lowbie trying to make it up to general so we would match their level and let them go in first and then join them and with all the broken code it spit out high xp for the lowbie. We originally used it to work around cryptic lack of KDF development for the faction to try to retain players but when every player is subject to the not enough content issue they are were bound to figure it out
Then when mirror event pop twice a day, you can do 3-4 level during happy hour.
This is too fast, though.
Delta Rising, by contrast, isn't fast enough.
IMO the best happy medium would be tweaking it such that, in DR at least, it would take one story mission, one patrol set, and half an hour on the Kobali adventure zone to level up. Encourages doing things without setting the bar so high that you have to actively grind for a good while to level like you do now.
Then when mirror event pop twice a day, you can do 3-4 level during happy hour.
Story missions are there if you like them or you might even like the special rewards here and there.
THAT was the premise I played STO under, NOT hey let's go full re.... and have them replay 100 story missions to 60 and then just delete everything else.
Mirror event doesn't pop any more, does it?
Didn't they kill it before the last season update?
You have GOT to be kidding me!! It wasnt an exploit! WHY did they have to **** with it?!
SO WHAT if players wanted to get to 60 in order to actually play the storylines through rather than stop and grind, stop and grind?!
Random desktop crashes, broken content, broken upgrade systems and everything else making this new expansion the crapfest it is and THIS is what they choose to address?
Ermergerd! PLaerz isnt playin the wayz we wont them two! Nerf nerf nerf!
Thats it . I said before if this happened it would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Cryptic couldnt give two sh!ts about the players or the game and just want to grind your wallets.
I've rarely seen devs sabotage their own game so wantonly.
It's why I ultimately left EverQuest and refused to spend another dime on their titles.
When you have GMs purposefully break the quests, send mass disconnects, and halt quest progression because the game actually isn't finished yet despite you paying full retail price for it? Yeah, this is where I start grabbing the pitchforks and torches.
I would really appreciate it if Cryptic did not put me in this position where I'm comparing them to SOE's game development practices.
And I'm fairly sure there are Cryptic devs who are wincing at the idea of being compared to SOE.
Yeah people just learned recently the way we KDF leveled back in the old days. Find a lowbie trying to make it up to general so we would match their level and let them go in first and then join them and with all the broken code it spit out high xp for the lowbie. We originally used it to work around cryptic lack of KDF development for the faction to try to retain players but when every player is subject to the not enough content issue they are were bound to figure it out
Ahhhh .... the good old days when our KDF story and content were as sparse of comfort as the bunks on our battlecruisers.
There are many ways to power level in the old content... not just Tau Dewa. I was playing the new stuff to about level 58 when it was just too tedious with 762k HP on enemy ships that I decided to head to Japori to wrap up in a few hours instead of a few days. You can still do that in many other places in the alpha and beta quadrants.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Except bug fixing, like creativity, isn't always an exact process - or an easy one. Unless they can reproduce the issue, step-by-step (preferably consistently), even professionals are just muddling in the dark as to how to fix without affecting everything else it's connected to... and that's not getting into how fickle either process can be.
Being a writer, I can tell you that much.
yeah tell that to my kdf tailor outfits that were bought and paid for and worked until about 2 years ago and now are just there on screen when i visit tailor and 100% unusable.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Yeah people just learned recently the way we KDF leveled back in the old days. Find a lowbie trying to make it up to general so we would match their level and let them go in first and then join them and with all the broken code it spit out high xp for the lowbie. We originally used it to work around cryptic lack of KDF development for the faction to try to retain players but when every player is subject to the not enough content issue they are were bound to figure it out
Remember back in the day PvP wasn't so totally borked either. There were a ton of glaring issues, but as Klingons there was the mantra that we would win regardless of how nerfed we were because we were Klingon.
Now you can't really even do that because of how borked PvP is.
Ahhhh .... the good old days when our KDF story and content were as sparse of comfort as the bunks on our battlecruisers.
Yeah most of this expansion though feels like its just a small collection of leveling content and then an expectation of people to grind skill points for a year before they come out with anything else lol. I guess it was a good weeks worth of entertainment lol. Until next year heh(and Cryptic no I am not going to grind skill points for another year).
Remember R&D when we could slot 5 of the same research?
Remember when Nukara medium missions didn't have a cooldown so you could get 900 fleet marks an hour?
Remember when the personnel officer would change 5 blue doffs for a purple for only 50 dil?
Remember when we could farm fleet credit in fleet alert easily by skipping the boss if need be?
Those were the good days. This one in particular sucks, makes the grind a looong looong one.
Yeah most of this expansion though feels like its just a small collection of leveling content and then an expectation of people to grind skill points for a year before they come out with anything else lol. I guess it was a good weeks worth of entertainment lol. Until next year heh(and Cryptic no I am not going to grind skill points for another year).
Wait until the devs come in and say they're giving us a new episode in 6 months to help out with that, which only gives us a tenth of a level and a half of a ship tier... but they'll spin it that they helped.
I know what you're getting at and its not his fault.
There was no reason for the devs to do this, they should buff experience in delta instead of nerfing tau dewa...
If there intended experience was to frustrate players to breaking point I think they're about to achieve it.
it could of been a server tool that let them know..
when I was an ESL admin for Battlefield 4 we used a server tool called Rcon to set up the matches for EMS One, we could see all the chat on that particular server and all relevant information according to the data on said server so what player is doing what whos going where. etc.
its not hard to have tool like that for any server tbh and Rcon isnt even High standard its a fan made tool. a very good one at that, so it stands to reason they have something like that but much better as well.
Off-roading?! Didn't know I was required to level up using the story mission road! Last time I checked I could freely patrol, PUG, or whatever, to level up the way I wanted.
Preaching to the choir, my ninja. I'm jsut saying they have avenues they prefer you to take. THey plan and forcast based on the metrics of normal progression.
Well hey, would make an intersting event for lots of players to boycott the game for a day, but as pointed out there's still a majority of the players that would log in anyway, and the devs wouldn't care.
Remember R&D when we could slot 5 of the same research?
Remember when Nukara medium missions didn't have a cooldown so you could get 900 fleet marks an hour?
Remember when the personnel officer would change 5 blue doffs for a purple for only 50 dil?
Remember when we could farm fleet credit in fleet alert easily by skipping the boss if need be?
Those were the good days. This one in particular sucks, makes the grind a looong looong one.
Cryptic turned off the Tau Dewa patrols because, according to their design philosophy, 6 spec points post level 60 = $120
Per the Tribble patch notes, small XP boosts are being nerfed to cap at 1k XP gained. Each costs $2 from the zen store. At $2 per 1k XP boost, you'd need to spend $120 to gain 1 spec point from boosts.
For every 6 spec points you earn without boosts, Cryptic is "losing" $120.
Basically, Cryptic wants spec points to be as slow a grind as possible in order to make their XP boosts seem valuable.
Fun police was contacted. After a lengthy investigation, they find out grinding Tau Dewa patrol was not fun. They have closed the whole system, and will soon tell us what is fun, and what is not.
Thanks you fun police, you've saved us again !
on the contrary, i believe they're not making enough money. instead of players grinding and spending EC, Zen and Dil to upgrade their ships for the new content in hopes that it will speed up the leveling proccess. The players found a short cut in Tau Dewa however, which in turn allowed them to rack up levels and specialization points. MK12 gear at 60 with full spec trees can put out 15k easy on ISA.
just my thoughts though.
For me the real throwback here is the changes made to XP are not the issue. The released the crafting early which was the best thing I have seen in a long long long time. Once patched I loved it.
That said the grind to get Dil and good gear is just too much. I don't mind grinding for the leveling part at all. For me they released the MK13 gear via crafting early which I was grateful for! But now that gear released early under the giuz of getting ready for cap increase. So I spent all I had and them some doing just that. Come to find out playing STFs is 5 times harder than before and not fun at all. All that preparing at least now seems like a waste. I am still waiting for explanations as to why they had to go so far making the difficulty almost impossible.
Why not just come out with a higher difficulty and make the new gear actually reflect what it needs to be to actually have a chance to complete these missions. It like removing everything we love and replacing it with a system nobody understands or wants.
Its like inflation X5. Who can handle that much of a change. I understand level and harder missions. But I still don't see anything new in game that makes me believe I will be doing STFs on advanced anytime soon.
You could have made the epic gear more expensive and lowered the XP on elite missions. In Theory the Elite should have been the new easy. Working towards the goal of actually finishing an advanced mission. Removing elite just takes all the fun out of the game!
To the point of them not making money. I am a happy contributer to STO. I would happily subscribe if the incentives were there. But they just are not good enough. I did pony up 30.00 for keys and ran through lock boxes day 1 before doing the STFs. my mistake I will not repeat again. That may be the last of the $$ from me for a while. I am not sure about the stuff that came out as well. Will work out in the long run I guess. But even that is kinda random!
Yes they delete mirror event too, so that they may force you play the story missions - knowning they have to whip people to do it.
I guess their mentality is people only play to get items and "gameplay" is the amount of money and time they can sponge from people?
About using the same progressions as before, keeping tour, exploration etc. etc. etc. in their own words the game was doing great, so why ruin it for people it's just so pointless.
The leveling spefiically you have to remember two things.
It's not 10 levels, it's 60 levels with most of the passives belonging to them are completely useless.
The tiers or rather the difficulty in reaching them has to be reflected in what they reward.
Since they are straight up terrible the balance is you dont have to replay 600 story missions to get there
Second, alts.
It might not take long to play through it one character so what, if people have fun they will happily do it on another character, I somehow believed that was the aim here
Comments
Ah I love Cryptic apologetics.
If this is just fixing the crafting drop, I get it, it screws with their bottom line, which they just can't have.
But if it's an issue of using the patrols to grind, that is an issue. As you say it's an actual grind. Now what they're saying is that you have to grind the way they tell us to, and any other type of grinding we want to do is bad, and we'll shut it down.
I get it, Delta Rising isn't a game, it's a job and work, so I agree with you. I get it that they need to be careful with anything that effects Dilithium and crafting, because they want the money from the crafting boxes.
But to tell us when, where, and how we need to grind is railroading to the extreme.
You really think they would do it all of a sudden right now if it was that kind of stuff? Please.
Then when mirror event pop twice a day, you can do 3-4 level during happy hour.
Story missions are there if you like them or you might even like the special rewards here and there.
THAT was the premise I played STO under, NOT hey let's go full re.... and have them replay 100 story missions to 60 and then just delete everything else.
I agree, this is what they want. Players to keep playing and slowly build their way up. Since they only providing a few episodes for the story to progress. Also it prevents players from beating it in 2-3 days. Then getting on the forums fussing and crying saying they want more. Which is usually the case for most games. The other alternative was to create a lot of episodes or side missions to allow a better way to level up. Since they didn't you have to kinda grind. To me that won't matter. As the next episode will soon come.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
You're not the only one placing blame squarely upon the "HEY!!!! EVERYONE!!!! COME POWERLEVEL!!! WHO CARES IF THE COMMUNITY MANAGERS TELL THE DEVS ABOUT IT!!!!" thread. :rolleyes:
I'd personally like to see any reaction out of them at this point. Farktoid is just doing his job by informing us about Tau Dewa.
But I would really love to hear from one of the higher ups in complete honesty why this is being done.
I've not logged in for a bit until simple games like Fleet Alert no longer require me to be in a high DPS Escort to have a chance at succeeding. But I am not willing to go to Tau Dewa to work around the Delta Rising content.
For 700 Zen my ship should be perfoming a lot better in space combat than signifigantly and noticably worse. I know I am not the only player that feels this way.
How miserable do we have to be before PWE/Cryptic is happy?
Come tomorrow, we may well find half the zones 'under quarantine' upon login, as is. Cleverly choosing your preferred way to grind/level up is now apparently considered an exploit. I've rarely seen devs sabotage their own game so wantonly.
They couldn't care less about a day or even a week. It tends not to effect their bottom line anyway.
Two, there are enough fanboi's around that will still play and pay double what they normall pay because well... they're fanboi's and Cryptic can do no wrong. Heck just look at the posts in this thread and you'll see a goodly number of them.
Third, to be honest the general population doesn't care enough about this fix. They're more concerned with the HP bug because it stops them from getting certain BNPs. They're more then willing to just grind Queues and couldn't be bothered with Tau Dewa.
What they don't understand is once Cryptic starts the idea of "play how we tell you to" it doesn't and won't end with just that. They'll keep going and going until they get the result they want.
This is too fast, though.
Delta Rising, by contrast, isn't fast enough.
IMO the best happy medium would be tweaking it such that, in DR at least, it would take one story mission, one patrol set, and half an hour on the Kobali adventure zone to level up. Encourages doing things without setting the bar so high that you have to actively grind for a good while to level like you do now.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Mirror event doesn't pop any more, does it?
Didn't they kill it before the last season update?
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Easy to complain now that you helped nerf it.
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It's why I ultimately left EverQuest and refused to spend another dime on their titles.
When you have GMs purposefully break the quests, send mass disconnects, and halt quest progression because the game actually isn't finished yet despite you paying full retail price for it? Yeah, this is where I start grabbing the pitchforks and torches.
I would really appreciate it if Cryptic did not put me in this position where I'm comparing them to SOE's game development practices.
And I'm fairly sure there are Cryptic devs who are wincing at the idea of being compared to SOE.
Ahhhh .... the good old days when our KDF story and content were as sparse of comfort as the bunks on our battlecruisers.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Remember Jita IV! CCP didn't know how to give in fast enough, after that!
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
yeah tell that to my kdf tailor outfits that were bought and paid for and worked until about 2 years ago and now are just there on screen when i visit tailor and 100% unusable.
Remember back in the day PvP wasn't so totally borked either. There were a ton of glaring issues, but as Klingons there was the mantra that we would win regardless of how nerfed we were because we were Klingon.
Now you can't really even do that because of how borked PvP is.
Yeah most of this expansion though feels like its just a small collection of leveling content and then an expectation of people to grind skill points for a year before they come out with anything else lol. I guess it was a good weeks worth of entertainment lol. Until next year heh(and Cryptic no I am not going to grind skill points for another year).
Remember R&D when we could slot 5 of the same research?
Remember when Nukara medium missions didn't have a cooldown so you could get 900 fleet marks an hour?
Remember when the personnel officer would change 5 blue doffs for a purple for only 50 dil?
Remember when we could farm fleet credit in fleet alert easily by skipping the boss if need be?
Those were the good days. This one in particular sucks, makes the grind a looong looong one.
Wait until the devs come in and say they're giving us a new episode in 6 months to help out with that, which only gives us a tenth of a level and a half of a ship tier... but they'll spin it that they helped.
I know what you're getting at and its not his fault.
There was no reason for the devs to do this, they should buff experience in delta instead of nerfing tau dewa...
If there intended experience was to frustrate players to breaking point I think they're about to achieve it.
it could of been a server tool that let them know..
when I was an ESL admin for Battlefield 4 we used a server tool called Rcon to set up the matches for EMS One, we could see all the chat on that particular server and all relevant information according to the data on said server so what player is doing what whos going where. etc.
its not hard to have tool like that for any server tbh and Rcon isnt even High standard its a fan made tool. a very good one at that, so it stands to reason they have something like that but much better as well.
Preaching to the choir, my ninja. I'm jsut saying they have avenues they prefer you to take. THey plan and forcast based on the metrics of normal progression.
Ah well, still an interesting thought.
Pepperidge Farm Remembers!
Per the Tribble patch notes, small XP boosts are being nerfed to cap at 1k XP gained. Each costs $2 from the zen store. At $2 per 1k XP boost, you'd need to spend $120 to gain 1 spec point from boosts.
For every 6 spec points you earn without boosts, Cryptic is "losing" $120.
Basically, Cryptic wants spec points to be as slow a grind as possible in order to make their XP boosts seem valuable.
Thanks you fun police, you've saved us again !
For me the real throwback here is the changes made to XP are not the issue. The released the crafting early which was the best thing I have seen in a long long long time. Once patched I loved it.
That said the grind to get Dil and good gear is just too much. I don't mind grinding for the leveling part at all. For me they released the MK13 gear via crafting early which I was grateful for! But now that gear released early under the giuz of getting ready for cap increase. So I spent all I had and them some doing just that. Come to find out playing STFs is 5 times harder than before and not fun at all. All that preparing at least now seems like a waste. I am still waiting for explanations as to why they had to go so far making the difficulty almost impossible.
Why not just come out with a higher difficulty and make the new gear actually reflect what it needs to be to actually have a chance to complete these missions. It like removing everything we love and replacing it with a system nobody understands or wants.
Its like inflation X5. Who can handle that much of a change. I understand level and harder missions. But I still don't see anything new in game that makes me believe I will be doing STFs on advanced anytime soon.
You could have made the epic gear more expensive and lowered the XP on elite missions. In Theory the Elite should have been the new easy. Working towards the goal of actually finishing an advanced mission. Removing elite just takes all the fun out of the game!
To the point of them not making money. I am a happy contributer to STO. I would happily subscribe if the incentives were there. But they just are not good enough. I did pony up 30.00 for keys and ran through lock boxes day 1 before doing the STFs. my mistake I will not repeat again. That may be the last of the $$ from me for a while. I am not sure about the stuff that came out as well. Will work out in the long run I guess. But even that is kinda random!
I guess their mentality is people only play to get items and "gameplay" is the amount of money and time they can sponge from people?
About using the same progressions as before, keeping tour, exploration etc. etc. etc. in their own words the game was doing great, so why ruin it for people it's just so pointless.
The leveling spefiically you have to remember two things.
It's not 10 levels, it's 60 levels with most of the passives belonging to them are completely useless.
The tiers or rather the difficulty in reaching them has to be reflected in what they reward.
Since they are straight up terrible the balance is you dont have to replay 600 story missions to get there
Second, alts.
It might not take long to play through it one character so what, if people have fun they will happily do it on another character, I somehow believed that was the aim here