1. I have yet to hit 51 on any captain before I think about doing PvE. To do PvE, and especially Advanced now is like doing a former elite on a level 40.
2. Pick Up Groups are completely out for Advanced and Elite content. It's either fleet mates, via social/STF channel, or forget it.
3. Sustained DPS is better than burst DPS. If you fly and escort the way you should, it will take you forever to kill anything, such as 600k hull birds of prey! If you use DHCs, park or forget about it.
4. Use Doffs and new episodic content now, and try PvE queues after level 60, and not before. Especially if you're not hardcore. If you are hardcore, play 3 hours to level 60, then play PvE queues and advanced STFs.
How stupid are some of you?! I mean really? Defending Cryptic over what is clearly a bunch of TRIBBLE? First off they said we could easily do all existing content WITHOUT a tier 6 ship. Then the launch happens and you not only cant do advanced ques with a Tier 5 or Tier 5u but you also cant do them in a tier 6.
And the Cryptic defenders arguement is that we havent hit lvl 60 yet so its ok that missions we have been hundreds of times are now out of our league? That logic is seriously flawed.
This isnt about making the game easier overall. The lvl 60 elite ques should be extremely hard. But to make the tier UNDER THAT totally ridiculous is just a bad bad decision. There goes grinding R&D mats...
We did warn you that Elite is not for everyone. Its pretty extreme. Seriously, most players should not be able to do it.
But please note, that have already had some pretty well organized fleets blazing through Elite with apparent ease. It kinda blows me away honestly. We have a lot of diversity on skill in STO, so finding the right balance point may take time. We want to make a real challenge for our top players, so if players are succeeding easily (and they are), expect it to probably get harder.
Um, actually... no. This is not a new difficulty. It's a new level of annoying.
You took slow, boring bags of health and added more health to them. That is not difficult. It just means in order to beat them, you have to spec out your super leet dps ships with the new gear and spacebar your way to victory. Last I checked, gear =/= skill.
Making the same mission take longer with a higher gear requirement =/= difficulty.
How stupid are some of you?! I mean really? Defending Cryptic over what is clearly a bunch of TRIBBLE? First off they said we could easily do all existing content WITHOUT a tier 6 ship. Then the launch happens and you not only cant do advanced ques with a Tier 5 or Tier 5u but you also cant do them in a tier 6.
And the Cryptic defenders arguement is that we havent hit lvl 60 yet so its ok that missions we have been hundreds of times are now out of our league? That logic is seriously flawed.
This isnt about making the game easier overall. The lvl 60 elite ques should be extremely hard. But to make the tier UNDER THAT totally ridiculous is just a bad bad decision. There goes grinding R&D mats...
Dude, I'm using a T5 Operations Oddy with only the Separation module. Only my fore weapons are purple and all of them are from LoR and lower. I only have one DR item and that's a shield emitter. My mortality rate? Surprisingly low. Half the time I just pick off stragglers and let the big boys do the heavy hitting.
Either learn to pick your battles better and synergize with your clearly superior teammates or go sit in the kid's corner playing Kadis-Kot. The Delta Alliance has no place for whiners and cowards.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
They also said that with the new difficulty, people in lower Tier ships with lower Tier gear would have problems. It's not their fault people can't read or didn't listen.
So far, I haven't come across any episodic content I can't complete in my existing Fleet ship with MK XII Rep/Fleet gear. Normal queues are not difficult. Advanced is a bit more of a challenge and I have not tried the new Elite yet, nor do I intend to as the nerfed rewards are the real problem IMO.
It's fine to want to adjust the difficulty, but the rewards should match that increased difficulty. It's like us being asked to work harder and more hours, but get paid less.
I laugh at the Connies floating around in the Delta Quadrant.
Kirk wouldn't have lasted five minutes against the Vaadies. :rolleyes:
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
My mortality rate? Surprisingly low. Half the time I just pick off stragglers and let the big boys do the heavy hitting.
Honestly, none of this content has killed my ships. I had zero dying last night. None! The problem is the incredible hit points on enemy ships in non ranked PvE, and more so in advanced STFs.
see, you just undermined any point you might have wanted to make.
functionally, you just admitted the game was dps centric to the exclusion of anything else from the start.
arguing against something being so while stating it as being true, is your own cognitive dissonance showing through.
Actually I admitted no such thing .
In the old STF's -- let's say the part where we needed to fly behind the Transwarp gate , and have tons of probes & cubes fly through / get stuck on the gate -- there you needed he cruisers to heal the escorts , while the escorts did most (but not all) the damage -- and ALL ships needed Neutronium Eng consoles .
That WAS team play ... -- supporting one another .
The same as needing a Sci on ground to finish Armek .
Right now , the Advanced just needs DPS .
No Neutronium is needed , and you can fly perfectly well with tons of Lobi consoles .
No healing for the weak by the strong is needed either .
Just Eng console slots stuffed with money and Doff slots stuffed with money , and all sorts of upgrades for ... money .
On one hand this is what makes F2P successful .
On the other ... -- well consider the rarity of some of the Doff that make the high DPS game go .
Do you know why they are so expensive (apart from player greed) ?
Rarity .
And that means that even if most of the player base wanted to get onto the DPS bandwagon --- they actually can't ... due to that very rarity .
Honestly, none of this content has killed my ships. I had zero dying last night. None! The problem is the incredible hit points on enemy ships in non ranked PvE, and more so in advanced STFs.
That's why I get the other guys to do it. They kill the dreadships and bionoughts and blah blah, I'm over here, completeing the optional objective of beaming people off the exploding ship! I'm contributing!
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
So far, I haven't come across any episodic content I can't complete in my existing Fleet ship with MK XII Rep/Fleet gear. Normal queues are not difficult. Advanced is a bit more of a challenge and I have not tried the new Elite yet, nor do I intend to as the nerfed rewards are the real problem IMO.
We haven't been talking about "episodic content." I think you have had a decent experience, because you went for episodic content first. The problem is, if you have a friend or two on, episodes are not group friendly.
I'm going to wait till I'm lvl 60 before I judge the difficulty of advanced queues and judging by my current performance in story missions on advanced 'difficulty' I'd suggest it will be pretty standard faire.
as mentioned in other threads, people are saying that advanced was beefed up too much.
people are even failing fleet alert.
Most fails at fleet alert are do to low levels being in there.. I have not lost one with all 50's but I was in there with 3 sub 30's and lost, before I could carry the group.. but no longer.
I'm not lumping at all.
Terribad players are just that, people who can't even complete the simplest of missions without dying lots.
Casual are people who don't have big funds, or lots of time or just jump in every couple of days to have a pew pew.
Lower ranked players are also going to suffer with the limited stuff available, like fleet red alert.
Next time, read the ONE sentence I wrote and not what you think I wrote.
Isn't this exactly what everyone was whining for? That they wanted a harder elite mode and an even tougher one above that? Did the players not get exactly what they wanted? So wtf are you crying about? You all kept asking for a real challenge, something that would make you actually have to use the ridiculous amount of dps your shiny new ships put out, and some of you were actually stupid enough to buy cryptic fake I win button. Guess what boys and girls, without the increased skills and ship specilization system, your new ship is about as powerful as its T5 counterparts. There are 10 more levels to go through now, and a bunch of new missions. I suggest doing them, because this time around, money may buy you the ships and equipment you want, but the abilities and skills required to use them effectively have to be earned.
I'm not lumping at all.
Terribad players are just that, people who can't even complete the simplest of missions without dying lots.
Casual are people who don't have big funds, or lots of time or just jump in every couple of days to have a pew pew.
Lower ranked players are also going to suffer with the limited stuff available, like fleet red alert.
Next time, read the ONE sentence I wrote and not what you think I wrote.
A casual is someone who knows that, eventually with work and determination, they will overcome challenges, albeit on their own time.
A terribad is someone who sees challenge, wipes and runs away, crying that they will never be able to play again and that the game is dead for them and the other "casuals".
Next time, don't let your subtext be so obvious in your words. Your fingers betray your true motives!
Isn't this exactly what everyone was whining for? That they wanted a harder elite mode and an even tougher one above that? Did the players not get exactly what they wanted? So wtf are you crying about? You all kept asking for a real challenge, something that would make you actually have to use the ridiculous amount of dps your shiny new ships put out, and some of you were actually stupid enough to buy cryptic fake I win button. Guess what boys and girls, without the increased skills and ship specilization system, your new ship is about as powerful as its T5 counterparts. There are 10 more levels to go through now, and a bunch of new missions. I suggest doing them, because this time around, money may buy you the ships and equipment you want, but the abilities and skills required to use them effectively have to be earned.
People complaining because they're getting rickkity REKT'D in the higher tiers because they chose to enter the Terrordome with a wifflebat while the other guy has a BFG.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
There people go again, lumping "casual" with "terribad".
There is a serious difference between the two, you know.
Go join a CC Advanced PUG. The advanced STFs aren't being lost because people are getting their asses kicked. They're being lost because it takes forever to kill the enemy. I used to save many ISEs in my science ship with my crowd control, since so many people didn't care about methodically killing the generators or were just carelessly spamming FAW. But now I basically have to keep the nanite spheres off the transformer for just too damned long. CC is probably the worst of the bunch though, with large crystalline shards at over 170k hp and with high DR. It's actually more time-efficient to lead them away in swarms, then full impulse back around them and re-engage the entity. Which is why people keep getting killed by "shards from nowhere", because people are just breaking aggro from shard groups rather than killing them.
It's not even harder though, still not dying or being challenged, they just increased hull strengths and shield strengths to utterly stupid levels.
BoPs with 600k hull strength, non boss Capitol ships with a million hull strength.
I've got a tier 5u bug ship with xiii weapons, an extra 40-60dps per front weapon isn't massive and certainly isn't scaling with new enemy hull strengths. 5% on top isn't a massive amount either, so unless players at lvl 60 are getting massive massive DPS outputs added on, it just doesn't add up.
Go join a CC Advanced PUG. The advanced STFs aren't being lost because people are getting their asses kicked. They're being lost because it takes forever to kill the enemy. I used to save many ISEs in my science ship with my crowd control, since so many people didn't care about methodically killing the generators or were just carelessly spamming FAW. But now I basically have to keep the nanite spheres off the transformer for just too damned long. CC is probably the worst of the bunch though, with large crystalline shards at over 170k hp and with high DR. It's actually more time-efficient to lead them away in swarms, then full impulse back around them and re-engage the entity. Which is why people keep getting killed by "shards from nowhere", because people are just breaking aggro from shard groups rather than killing them.
There was no subtext involved at all so stop making stuff up.
Casual players will suffer because they can't put the time or the funds in to make themselves an elite like you so obviously are.
You are right, they aren't meant for low dps teams, in fact they aren't even meant for teams who already exceeded the old elites by a factor of x2 or, even x3, heck even x4 for that matter.
No they are meant for people who are only focused on the highest possible dps in this game, which is something the vast majority of player's are not really interested in.
PUG groups, are not meant to naturally perform at these levels and, now they cannot even accomplish advanced with any degree of 25% surety.
It completely robs the diversity out of the game and, drives off potential customers, is all it is doing really.
So now only the 1% who spend money on the most DPS possible will earn the pitiful 960 dil reward. Even those who could handle old ESTF may not even be able to earn the even more pitiful 480 advanced reward in a timely fashion, making it 100% not worth queueing for.
Good way to chase players away and kill STFs. "Other queues also award dilithium" is not an excuse. We had the prior STFs for years. We've grown to really enjoy them. They were fast, efficient and enjoyable and completely worth running when you only a small amount of time to play. Guess fast, efficient and enjoyable isn't acceptable huh?
Make new queues this new difficulty, not existing queues.
The link is pretty clear but still for the lazy ones:
In the new Advanced versions of the queues you will see a similar level of challenge in the enemies that you are used to when the queues were labeled Elite.......Advanced mode also brings with it one or more new optional objectives as well. This may be an objective to complete the mission in set amount of time, or some other goal that can be achieved........
I am sorry but tholian frigate on Crystalline entity Advanced with 700k hp is hardly similar level of challenge. A Playable fed cruiser get to around 100k and a mere frigate got 7 times more. Similar level - yeeeah right. Not to mention the nerfed rewards. Also all our gear is automaticly obsolete, since mk12 purple is clearly no match for advanced difficulty. I tried a few public advanced - They all failed - miserably. Before we managed to complete the Vicious cycle with 4 man team (you have to admit it was one of the more difficult events) Now i don't dare to try it.
Personally I like the harder stuff. However when the weaker players all leave it becomes impossible. So if you don't have an elite build I feel bad for you but you should stay out of the Advanced ques!:D
I love the new changes...yesterday's launch was some of the best time I've spent in STO in quite awhile...dunno why most players complaining...guess they missed the memo...:D
You mean the one that said advanced would be roughly the same as the old elite? That one? I read that one. And my ship can do killing just fine. Usually without even having to get past the enemy shields. The spikes I can put out with the romulan rep power active are pretty psychotic. Sorry if FAW forever isn't my preferred playstyle.
Why do people think that an extra 10 levels, from 50 to 60, will give magically add tons of DPS to handle the now not-worth-queueing-for advanced STFs?
I've said it elsewhere but I'll say it here: I was about an hour away from buying the Dilithium Rising pack when someone on the forums mentioned nerfed STF rewards on tribble. I read the notes and they confirmed it: nerfed rewards and increased difficulty. I realized right then what was in store and decided not to buy. Increased difficulty and nerfed rewards for my favorite part of the game (turns out insane increased "difficulty"), on top of crazy six-figure dilithium sinks. Doesn't take a genius to see the writing on the wall.
I am very glad I read that future warning when I did. This is not enjoyable in the least. I would have been really pissed if I spent $125 before reading it.
I may still log in to doff and do the daily r&d, but that's it. I'm not even interested in leveling to 60, I just don't care. GG cryptic.
There was no subtext involved at all so stop making stuff up.
Casual players will suffer because they can't put the time or the funds in to make themselves an elite like you so obviously are.
Weird you quoting him, but eh. I didn't spend any time or money on my Oddy. I got it just from Dil farming that special event that rewards 50k for fourteen special mats. Not the Cataclysm, the other one. I think it was Q's B-Day or something. Traded it 150k for over 2k Zen. Everything on my Oddy, from Fore to Engineering Console, all in game rewards and loot drops that took me less than I spend playing Secret World.
Again, you lump the casuals, who do in their own time, with the Terribads, who will never do because they can't.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, whine on internet forums.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
The Guardian is set up, and looks great. I was just all excited about the stupid Mat'Ha. Could the day of Escorts Online be over? I have yet to see a happy post by an escort/raider/destroyer captain... T5U or T6. I better look some more.
Actually, STO hasn't been Escorts Online for years, its Escorts/Vapers/A2B Cruisers/Romulans/lockboxes Online.
And thanks to almost 400 parti-gens/Flow Caps being available, scis now work too.
How stupid are some of you?! I mean really? Defending Cryptic over what is clearly a bunch of TRIBBLE? First off they said we could easily do all existing content WITHOUT a tier 6 ship. Then the launch happens and you not only cant do advanced ques with a Tier 5 or Tier 5u but you also cant do them in a tier 6.
And the Cryptic defenders arguement is that we havent hit lvl 60 yet so its ok that missions we have been hundreds of times are now out of our league? That logic is seriously flawed.
This isnt about making the game easier overall. The lvl 60 elite ques should be extremely hard. But to make the tier UNDER THAT totally ridiculous is just a bad bad decision. There goes grinding R&D mats...
Just because you don't know how to pilot your ship, doesn't mean it cannot do all the new stuff. it just means you cant.
VR Mk XII Equipped T5s with competent pilots were beating this stuff on Tribble, so don't blame the equipment.
Comments
1. I have yet to hit 51 on any captain before I think about doing PvE. To do PvE, and especially Advanced now is like doing a former elite on a level 40.
2. Pick Up Groups are completely out for Advanced and Elite content. It's either fleet mates, via social/STF channel, or forget it.
3. Sustained DPS is better than burst DPS. If you fly and escort the way you should, it will take you forever to kill anything, such as 600k hull birds of prey! If you use DHCs, park or forget about it.
4. Use Doffs and new episodic content now, and try PvE queues after level 60, and not before. Especially if you're not hardcore. If you are hardcore, play 3 hours to level 60, then play PvE queues and advanced STFs.
Member since December 2009
And the Cryptic defenders arguement is that we havent hit lvl 60 yet so its ok that missions we have been hundreds of times are now out of our league? That logic is seriously flawed.
This isnt about making the game easier overall. The lvl 60 elite ques should be extremely hard. But to make the tier UNDER THAT totally ridiculous is just a bad bad decision. There goes grinding R&D mats...
Um, actually... no. This is not a new difficulty. It's a new level of annoying.
You took slow, boring bags of health and added more health to them. That is not difficult. It just means in order to beat them, you have to spec out your super leet dps ships with the new gear and spacebar your way to victory. Last I checked, gear =/= skill.
Making the same mission take longer with a higher gear requirement =/= difficulty.
Dude, I'm using a T5 Operations Oddy with only the Separation module. Only my fore weapons are purple and all of them are from LoR and lower. I only have one DR item and that's a shield emitter. My mortality rate? Surprisingly low. Half the time I just pick off stragglers and let the big boys do the heavy hitting.
Either learn to pick your battles better and synergize with your clearly superior teammates or go sit in the kid's corner playing Kadis-Kot. The Delta Alliance has no place for whiners and cowards.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
I laugh at the Connies floating around in the Delta Quadrant.
Kirk wouldn't have lasted five minutes against the Vaadies. :rolleyes:
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Honestly, none of this content has killed my ships. I had zero dying last night. None! The problem is the incredible hit points on enemy ships in non ranked PvE, and more so in advanced STFs.
Member since December 2009
Actually I admitted no such thing .
In the old STF's -- let's say the part where we needed to fly behind the Transwarp gate , and have tons of probes & cubes fly through / get stuck on the gate -- there you needed he cruisers to heal the escorts , while the escorts did most (but not all) the damage -- and ALL ships needed Neutronium Eng consoles .
That WAS team play ... -- supporting one another .
The same as needing a Sci on ground to finish Armek .
Right now , the Advanced just needs DPS .
No Neutronium is needed , and you can fly perfectly well with tons of Lobi consoles .
No healing for the weak by the strong is needed either .
Just Eng console slots stuffed with money and Doff slots stuffed with money , and all sorts of upgrades for ... money .
On one hand this is what makes F2P successful .
On the other ... -- well consider the rarity of some of the Doff that make the high DPS game go .
Do you know why they are so expensive (apart from player greed) ?
Rarity .
And that means that even if most of the player base wanted to get onto the DPS bandwagon --- they actually can't ... due to that very rarity .
That's why I get the other guys to do it. They kill the dreadships and bionoughts and blah blah, I'm over here, completeing the optional objective of beaming people off the exploding ship! I'm contributing!
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
We haven't been talking about "episodic content." I think you have had a decent experience, because you went for episodic content first. The problem is, if you have a friend or two on, episodes are not group friendly.
Member since December 2009
Cash cow.
There people go again, lumping "casual" with "terribad".
There is a serious difference between the two, you know.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Most fails at fleet alert are do to low levels being in there.. I have not lost one with all 50's but I was in there with 3 sub 30's and lost, before I could carry the group.. but no longer.
Terribad players are just that, people who can't even complete the simplest of missions without dying lots.
Casual are people who don't have big funds, or lots of time or just jump in every couple of days to have a pew pew.
Lower ranked players are also going to suffer with the limited stuff available, like fleet red alert.
Next time, read the ONE sentence I wrote and not what you think I wrote.
A casual is someone who knows that, eventually with work and determination, they will overcome challenges, albeit on their own time.
A terribad is someone who sees challenge, wipes and runs away, crying that they will never be able to play again and that the game is dead for them and the other "casuals".
Next time, don't let your subtext be so obvious in your words. Your fingers betray your true motives!
People complaining because they're getting rickkity REKT'D in the higher tiers because they chose to enter the Terrordome with a wifflebat while the other guy has a BFG.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Go join a CC Advanced PUG. The advanced STFs aren't being lost because people are getting their asses kicked. They're being lost because it takes forever to kill the enemy. I used to save many ISEs in my science ship with my crowd control, since so many people didn't care about methodically killing the generators or were just carelessly spamming FAW. But now I basically have to keep the nanite spheres off the transformer for just too damned long. CC is probably the worst of the bunch though, with large crystalline shards at over 170k hp and with high DR. It's actually more time-efficient to lead them away in swarms, then full impulse back around them and re-engage the entity. Which is why people keep getting killed by "shards from nowhere", because people are just breaking aggro from shard groups rather than killing them.
BoPs with 600k hull strength, non boss Capitol ships with a million hull strength.
I've got a tier 5u bug ship with xiii weapons, an extra 40-60dps per front weapon isn't massive and certainly isn't scaling with new enemy hull strengths. 5% on top isn't a massive amount either, so unless players at lvl 60 are getting massive massive DPS outputs added on, it just doesn't add up.
There was no subtext involved at all so stop making stuff up.
Casual players will suffer because they can't put the time or the funds in to make themselves an elite like you so obviously are.
So now only the 1% who spend money on the most DPS possible will earn the pitiful 960 dil reward. Even those who could handle old ESTF may not even be able to earn the even more pitiful 480 advanced reward in a timely fashion, making it 100% not worth queueing for.
Good way to chase players away and kill STFs. "Other queues also award dilithium" is not an excuse. We had the prior STFs for years. We've grown to really enjoy them. They were fast, efficient and enjoyable and completely worth running when you only a small amount of time to play. Guess fast, efficient and enjoyable isn't acceptable huh?
Make new queues this new difficulty, not existing queues.
The link is pretty clear but still for the lazy ones:
In the new Advanced versions of the queues you will see a similar level of challenge in the enemies that you are used to when the queues were labeled Elite.......Advanced mode also brings with it one or more new optional objectives as well. This may be an objective to complete the mission in set amount of time, or some other goal that can be achieved........
I am sorry but tholian frigate on Crystalline entity Advanced with 700k hp is hardly similar level of challenge. A Playable fed cruiser get to around 100k and a mere frigate got 7 times more. Similar level - yeeeah right. Not to mention the nerfed rewards. Also all our gear is automaticly obsolete, since mk12 purple is clearly no match for advanced difficulty. I tried a few public advanced - They all failed - miserably. Before we managed to complete the Vicious cycle with 4 man team (you have to admit it was one of the more difficult events) Now i don't dare to try it.
I've said it elsewhere but I'll say it here: I was about an hour away from buying the Dilithium Rising pack when someone on the forums mentioned nerfed STF rewards on tribble. I read the notes and they confirmed it: nerfed rewards and increased difficulty. I realized right then what was in store and decided not to buy. Increased difficulty and nerfed rewards for my favorite part of the game (turns out insane increased "difficulty"), on top of crazy six-figure dilithium sinks. Doesn't take a genius to see the writing on the wall.
I am very glad I read that future warning when I did. This is not enjoyable in the least. I would have been really pissed if I spent $125 before reading it.
I may still log in to doff and do the daily r&d, but that's it. I'm not even interested in leveling to 60, I just don't care. GG cryptic.
Weird you quoting him, but eh. I didn't spend any time or money on my Oddy. I got it just from Dil farming that special event that rewards 50k for fourteen special mats. Not the Cataclysm, the other one. I think it was Q's B-Day or something. Traded it 150k for over 2k Zen. Everything on my Oddy, from Fore to Engineering Console, all in game rewards and loot drops that took me less than I spend playing Secret World.
Again, you lump the casuals, who do in their own time, with the Terribads, who will never do because they can't.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, whine on internet forums.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Actually, STO hasn't been Escorts Online for years, its Escorts/Vapers/A2B Cruisers/Romulans/lockboxes Online.
And thanks to almost 400 parti-gens/Flow Caps being available, scis now work too.
Just because you don't know how to pilot your ship, doesn't mean it cannot do all the new stuff. it just means you cant.
VR Mk XII Equipped T5s with competent pilots were beating this stuff on Tribble, so don't blame the equipment.