No, that's exactly what this thread is, another thread about impatience and how "Evil Company won't give me everything now" You don't see it that way because you're akin to the OP.
Look at MK12 Fleet Adv gear. Now look at how much it would cost to upgrade to Mk13 . It way,way overprices for just a small stats up . Now if you don't want wait put more dil in to it.
I have no issues spending money, Cryptic has to pay salaries afterall. But I agree that some of the time gates are annoying, especially 1 week cooldowns when upgrading a fleet hold or some crafting cooldowns. As for the Dil Cap, I can live with it, wondering why Cryptic doesn't sell Dil Cap increases through C-Store though, could be a business.
i dont suppose anyone thought to upgrade their second best gear first so they would have somthing to slip in and use while their best gear was being upgraded.
you would not have to worry over the 24hr time gate then.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Having a game that cost zero real world currency.
Having updates and expansions that cost zero real world currency.
Having a way to acquire anything and everything in the game for zero real world currency.
Whining about timegates, priceless.
No, that's exactly what this thread is, another thread about impatience and how "Evil Company won't give me everything now" You don't see it that way because you're akin to the OP.
You are seriously projecting here..... This thread is about needless timegate design philosophy and the heinously negative impact on the game play experience.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
All these dil sinks are a very fine line to walk though. At some point, Cryptic will push these to a point where the playerbase says it's too much and moves on to other games.
Of course the game needs to make money and I personally have no objection to that. With that said, it certainly seems to me that the developers are going overboard with all the "minor" things to get you to part with money. Deliberately creating timegated systems that you can pay real money to circumvent is sleazy in my opinion. Creating an upgrade system that allows for people to gamble real money is also extremely sleazy to me.
The recent changes to the upgrade and R&D systems are really pushing that fine line for me personally.
I agree it is a fine line for Cryptic. When they cross it is always going to be subjective.
Now who would you prefer got the money form those people who are either impatient and have money to spend or are cash rich but time poor? The choice is it is either official from Cryptic, and so safe account and details wise or it is the shady companies that provide them in other games that don't have an official version. Personally, even though I am not a fan of them, I prefer that its official and, atleast, safe and at best making money for Cryptic to keep the game going.
I have been away for a few months and so am getting used to the new R&D so still exploring it and levelling. This is despite being top level in the old crafting system so starting again I find a tad annoying. As such I can't comment too much on the specific of it and so I am talking about time gating and ways around it generally.
When does this "gamble" become sleazy? We had some say that it happened with the lock boxes.
Having a game that cost zero real world currency.
Having updates and expansions that cost zero real world currency.
Having a way to acquire anything and everything in the game for zero real world currency.
Whining about timegates, priceless.
That is just it.... I dont play that game. I play a game where I spend a lot of real world currency and am getting extremely sick of the TRIBBLE barriers being introduced to game play. I want a SINGLE pay option to get rid of ALL the stupid milking barriers being added into the game. Then all you F2P people can do whatever you want with your FREE game and I wont have to deal with it.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
So we can assume all your characters are fully decked out in Fleet ships with top of the line Fleet/Rep gear and will be upgrading all your characters to Epic gear just by grinding dil?
See you in a decade or so when we can discuss how fun that grind was for you.
Who "needs" epic gear besides some epeeners and pokemoners? We certainly don't need to play STO.
All these dil sinks are a very fine line to walk though. At some point, Cryptic will push these to a point where the playerbase says it's too much and moves on to other games.
Of course the game needs to make money and I personally have no objection to that. With that said, it certainly seems to me that the developers are going overboard with all the "minor" things to get you to part with money. Deliberately creating timegated systems that you can pay real money to circumvent is sleazy in my opinion. Creating an upgrade system that allows for people to gamble real money is also extremely sleazy to me.
The recent changes to the upgrade and R&D systems are really pushing that fine line for me personally.
No doubt. It is bad business practice as far as I'm concerned and I can only hope eventually a law suit gets filed against the industry for such practices. I'm paying money and a lot and I'm still forced to suffer this bullcrap. I want it to go away.
Given me a number and an option.... $500 - $1000 -etc..... I want all the gates and other "F2P mechanics" removed from my game play experience. They are severely hampering my enjoyment of the game which I'm paying a lot of money to experience.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
That is just it.... I dont play that game. I play a game where I spend a lot of real world currency and am getting extremely sick of the TRIBBLE barriers being introduced to game play. I want a SINGLE pay option to get rid of ALL the stupid milking barriers being added into the game. Then all you F2P people can do whatever you want with your FREE game and I wont have to deal with it.
If you really paid THAT much currency, then you'd not care about this topic.
That is just it.... I dont play that game. I play a game where I spend a lot of real world currency and am getting extremely sick of the TRIBBLE barriers being introduced to game play. I want a SINGLE pay option to get rid of ALL the stupid milking barriers being added into the game. Then all you F2P people can do whatever you want with your FREE game and I wont have to deal with it.
All those f2p players are the ones keeping the game going. The system you want was a failure for this game. There are a few games where it still exists though I doubt you would be happy with the time gates that are barriers to playing the game.
Even if they got rid of the "milking" barriers time gates would still be there. Every game I have played has had them. Anyone remember the time gate on making a specialist cloth in TBC? Have you even played EVE? Now that has time gates up the wazoo. Just two examples.
No doubt. It is bad business practice as far as I'm concerned and I can only hope eventually a law suit gets filed against the industry for such practices. I'm paying money and a lot and I'm still forced to suffer this bullcrap. I want it to go away.
Given me a number and an option.... $500 - $1000 -etc..... I want all the gates and other "F2P mechanics" removed from my game play experience. They are severely hampering my enjoyment of the game which I'm paying a lot of money to experience.
They are well within their legal rights to use this model to fund the game. If you don't like f2p mechanics don't play a f2p game. No one is forcing you.
If you really paid THAT much currency, then you'd not care about this topic.
Why? I really do try to support the company and the community.
Then there are other expense such as VoIP servers and website hosting -etc... all more expenses for the game many people pay. Maybe you dont really understand what passion is to some people. I dont really care about money. It is a tool to me.
Hell I took a 90% pay cut to do my current job because the work is more valuable to me than money. My point being that not everyone holds money as a priority in life.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
All those f2p players are the ones keeping the game going. The system you want was a failure for this game. There are a few games where it still exists though I doubt you would be happy with the time gates that are barriers to playing the game.
Even if they got rid of the "milking" barriers time gates would still be there. Every game I have played has had them. Anyone remember the time gate on making a specialist cloth in TBC? Have you even played EVE? Now that has time gates up the wazoo. Just two examples.
Yeah... I hear that but never see the numbers.... I also dont remember then offering but higher monthly costs either or giving us a new engine -etc.... Point being you are using talking points and not real situational information. Why did they not crowd source the game then? Why not allow people to invest directly as a company spending as much as they wanted? It is was because it would not have worked but because it did not fit the established industry's practices and until the real numbers become public information I'll never accept company dribble as gospel truth.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
That is just it.... I dont play that game. I play a game where I spend a lot of real world currency and am getting extremely sick of the TRIBBLE barriers being introduced to game play. I want a SINGLE pay option to get rid of ALL the stupid milking barriers being added into the game. Then all you F2P people can do whatever you want with your FREE game and I wont have to deal with it.
Then go and play another game. Seems like a simple solution.
They are well within their legal rights to use this model to fund the game. If you don't like f2p mechanics don't play a f2p game. No one is forcing you.
It is good people can express different opinions here yes? :rolleyes: I did not start playing a F2P game it was FORCED on me actually. Also the way things are going now, if a real viable option comes along chances are I will move along to a game with mechanics more suited to my time and play style.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
It is good people can express different opinions here yes? :rolleyes: I did not start playing a F2P game it was FORCED on me actually. Also the way things are going now, if a real viable option comes along chances are I will move along to a game with mechanics more suited to my time and play style.
Again no one is forcing you to stay here. Their are many Star Trek games I have passed on because they weren't good. I originally passed on this game when it first came out. Since this year enough changes have been made that work for me.
Again no one is forcing you to stay here. Their are many Star Trek games I have passed on because they weren't good. I originally passed on this game when it first came out. Since this year enough changes have been made that work for me.
Well good for you. They dont work for me ergo my voicing my opinion in this thread. Thanks for your input go have fun now in your F2P happy land. After all no one is forcing you to post in this thread but you are... Amazing methinks...
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
Well good for you. They dont work for me ergo my voicing my opinion in this thread. Thanks for your input go have fun now in your F2P happy land. After all no one is forcing you to post in this thread but you are... Amazing methinks...
He's still right in that no one's forcing you to play this game - and no, the mechanics being forced on you isn't part of that argument. No reason to lump him in 'F2P is the best and can do no wrong' category
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
He's still right in that no one's forcing you to play this game - and no, the mechanics being forced on you isn't part of that argument. No reason to lump him in 'F2P is the best and can do no wrong' category
The F2P model was forced on me and yes I'm not being forced to play but if you want to drink and only person has water you are forced - oh I'm sorry compelled to pay their price for the experience.
Also telling me to "like it or leave" is akin to adding him to the F2P crowd by virtue of his post so why not respond in kind?
Far too many people on this forum feel some need to impose their fanboy or "my way or the highway" mentality on others expressing a different opinion than the developer paradigm is traveling in and when people respond in kind it is a bad thing? please.... :rolleyes:
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
So we can assume all your characters are fully decked out in Fleet ships with top of the line Fleet/Rep gear and will be upgrading all your characters to Epic gear just by grinding dil?
See you in a decade or so when we can discuss how fun that grind was for you.
No, you definitely can't assume that, why would you? By what reason should you be fully decked on every character? Basically, if you're fully decked, and have completed all the missions, the game is over. You have nothing to achieve anymore.
Sure, you could keep playing and do the same thing you always do. Do Infected for the fun of it. Jump into a Battle Zone just for the fun of it.
But, to your surprise perhaps, that's pretty much what you would do if you were busy grinding. The only difference is that in the first case, you know you can't get anything out of it anymore.
---
IF you just want to buy a short-cut. At least for upgrade and Crafting, there is the FInish NOw BUtton. It costs Dilithium to use th at. Just buy 1,000 $ worth of Zen, and then use the exchange.
Of course, maybe it turns out that won't cover you long enough. If it doesn't... That could mean that the hypothetical 1,000 $ would actually have been a net loss for Cryptic, which is why they don't offer it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
This thread is about needless timegate design philosophy and the heinously negative impact on the game play experience.
Funny, you spelled "positive" wrong.
The timegates mean that the benefits from investing more time per day into the game is capped.
That in turn means that anyone who has better things to do than invest hours upon hours into the game on a daily basis will still make the same progress, or at least won't fall behind by ridiculous amounts.
It's the same design philosophy used to balance Large and Small (~30 active players) Fleet Holdings. The Large Fleet can only make so much progress on their Fleet Holdings before suffering from massive diminishing returns on their investment, which essentially means the Small Fleet won't fall behind if they get their projects done on time. (Again though, this is by Cryptic's definition of Small Fleet, not Tiny 6-man Fleets.)
It's the same design philosophy used by the current reputation systems, where you can easily get your daily box of marks, which is sufficient for the major 20 hr project. Grinding the 1 hr projects only get you ahead a bit, but they even considered that disparity too much, and capped it at 3.
This design philosophy is designed to not let casual gamers, the majority of any game, fall behind so much that they feel they've been left behind with no way to catch up. As an adult employed full-time with various real-life responsibilities, I think it's great. It's like having a maximum quota, after I hit it there's no pressure to do more.
The F2P model was forced on me and yes I'm not being forced to play but if you want to drink and only person has water you are forced - oh I'm sorry compelled to pay their price for the experience.
Also telling me to "like it or leave" is akin to adding him to the F2P crowd by virtue of his post so why not respond in kind?
Far too many people on this forum feel some need to impose their fanboy or "my way or the highway" mentality on others expressing a different opinion than the developer paradigm is traveling in and when people respond in kind it is a bad thing? please.... :rolleyes:
No one here is imposing those views - we're simply stating them in response, because we believe them.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Comments
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
*wakes up*
Oh sorry, I fell asleep hoping my time gates would go by faster. :P
you would not have to worry over the 24hr time gate then.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Having updates and expansions that cost zero real world currency.
Having a way to acquire anything and everything in the game for zero real world currency.
Whining about timegates, priceless.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
I agree it is a fine line for Cryptic. When they cross it is always going to be subjective.
Now who would you prefer got the money form those people who are either impatient and have money to spend or are cash rich but time poor? The choice is it is either official from Cryptic, and so safe account and details wise or it is the shady companies that provide them in other games that don't have an official version. Personally, even though I am not a fan of them, I prefer that its official and, atleast, safe and at best making money for Cryptic to keep the game going.
I have been away for a few months and so am getting used to the new R&D so still exploring it and levelling. This is despite being top level in the old crafting system so starting again I find a tad annoying. As such I can't comment too much on the specific of it and so I am talking about time gating and ways around it generally.
When does this "gamble" become sleazy? We had some say that it happened with the lock boxes.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Who "needs" epic gear besides some epeeners and pokemoners? We certainly don't need to play STO.
Given me a number and an option.... $500 - $1000 -etc..... I want all the gates and other "F2P mechanics" removed from my game play experience. They are severely hampering my enjoyment of the game which I'm paying a lot of money to experience.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
If you really paid THAT much currency, then you'd not care about this topic.
All those f2p players are the ones keeping the game going. The system you want was a failure for this game. There are a few games where it still exists though I doubt you would be happy with the time gates that are barriers to playing the game.
Even if they got rid of the "milking" barriers time gates would still be there. Every game I have played has had them. Anyone remember the time gate on making a specialist cloth in TBC? Have you even played EVE? Now that has time gates up the wazoo. Just two examples.
They are well within their legal rights to use this model to fund the game. If you don't like f2p mechanics don't play a f2p game. No one is forcing you.
Then there are other expense such as VoIP servers and website hosting -etc... all more expenses for the game many people pay. Maybe you dont really understand what passion is to some people. I dont really care about money. It is a tool to me.
Hell I took a 90% pay cut to do my current job because the work is more valuable to me than money. My point being that not everyone holds money as a priority in life.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Then go and play another game. Seems like a simple solution.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Again no one is forcing you to stay here. Their are many Star Trek games I have passed on because they weren't good. I originally passed on this game when it first came out. Since this year enough changes have been made that work for me.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Also telling me to "like it or leave" is akin to adding him to the F2P crowd by virtue of his post so why not respond in kind?
Far too many people on this forum feel some need to impose their fanboy or "my way or the highway" mentality on others expressing a different opinion than the developer paradigm is traveling in and when people respond in kind it is a bad thing? please.... :rolleyes:
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
No, you definitely can't assume that, why would you? By what reason should you be fully decked on every character? Basically, if you're fully decked, and have completed all the missions, the game is over. You have nothing to achieve anymore.
Sure, you could keep playing and do the same thing you always do. Do Infected for the fun of it. Jump into a Battle Zone just for the fun of it.
But, to your surprise perhaps, that's pretty much what you would do if you were busy grinding. The only difference is that in the first case, you know you can't get anything out of it anymore.
---
IF you just want to buy a short-cut. At least for upgrade and Crafting, there is the FInish NOw BUtton. It costs Dilithium to use th at. Just buy 1,000 $ worth of Zen, and then use the exchange.
Of course, maybe it turns out that won't cover you long enough. If it doesn't... That could mean that the hypothetical 1,000 $ would actually have been a net loss for Cryptic, which is why they don't offer it.
Funny, you spelled "positive" wrong.
The timegates mean that the benefits from investing more time per day into the game is capped.
That in turn means that anyone who has better things to do than invest hours upon hours into the game on a daily basis will still make the same progress, or at least won't fall behind by ridiculous amounts.
It's the same design philosophy used to balance Large and Small (~30 active players) Fleet Holdings. The Large Fleet can only make so much progress on their Fleet Holdings before suffering from massive diminishing returns on their investment, which essentially means the Small Fleet won't fall behind if they get their projects done on time. (Again though, this is by Cryptic's definition of Small Fleet, not Tiny 6-man Fleets.)
It's the same design philosophy used by the current reputation systems, where you can easily get your daily box of marks, which is sufficient for the major 20 hr project. Grinding the 1 hr projects only get you ahead a bit, but they even considered that disparity too much, and capped it at 3.
This design philosophy is designed to not let casual gamers, the majority of any game, fall behind so much that they feel they've been left behind with no way to catch up. As an adult employed full-time with various real-life responsibilities, I think it's great. It's like having a maximum quota, after I hit it there's no pressure to do more.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.