my insistence is that ships that turn better with less effort are more useful for PvP-because as always, 'Potential Damage<Deliverable Damage' in terms of what matters. If you can't apply the force, you haven't really GOT the force to apply.
lets see beams ....250degrees firing arc ...so front and back beams pretty much cover all directions.since you have a 360 degrees firing ball you need turn because.... ???
Zippy science... That's how you can tell too much is too much.
Well, there is maneuverability, which is very useful if not needed in sci ships (one of the reasons the wells is so well thought off aside from the boff setup) and then there is OMFG LUDICROUS SPEED!!! Which seems to be the way DR is taking everything too.
Also, I guess now that the starts for the dauntless are out the discussion of whether it will be the well's replacement is finally over. The dauntless is a joke of a science ships and will be magnificent ... as cannon fodder.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
Duels...again with the Duels. Duelling is to que or Ker'rat what boxing is to a riot, and more often than not, durability goes further in a duel, than it does in a real match or frantic melee.
Duelling eliminates a lot of the activity you see in a free-form match (the most common kind), reducing it to a straight punching/being punched contest where bigger is by definition better.
this is not something i need to be informed of, its just the main rational behind the arguments that the MaHas ain't no good, so i keep responding to that. but, somewhat isolated escort vs escort clashes happen constantly in arena too, and despite certain escorts being much better at defeating other escorts, ultimately its which team that has a better healer and/or target caller that has a bigger role in who might win or lose that 'duel'.
Meaning I think I now know where you get this idea that the bort's viable, and why nobody seems to show up saying "...and that Bortasque on our team really carried it."
who brought up the bortas? don't be under the mistaken impression that just because i use a ship, and can do well in it, that i think its good! thats all in spite of the ship im using. it can make it interesting, and fun, to succeed in something like that, then it can be just mowing everyone down with my zindi.
As for Romulan ships...they're OP on purpose, at some point a KDF has to just accept them as part of the environment, and stop trying to compare or model performance with them-they're better than ours by developer design, so if one isn't going to just give up and roll green, one simply has to accept the continued and persistent existence of FedRoms with cloaks that they can't get hurt using, and generally better ship-stats with a cosmetic and irrelevant 'balancing' factor.
Seeing a Romulan, my first reaction is "Yup, he can read and do math, and maybe has a bit too much free money on hand."
lol, its not that simple with warbirds. there's not enough power for them to have strong shields OR move fast. warp core ships tend not to even have to choose between the 2, wile warbirds have nether. their effective scope is quite a bit more limited, and they should probably be cloaked more often then viable, if they aren't they become a liability. in the melee of an arena, for the constant trade of pressure damage that can put your team in a 4v5 situation, meaning the rest of your team has to pick up the slack with thier damage soak. its up to the warbird to be a critical component in the getting of decisive kills, for it to pull its weight. and do that wile not getting it's more fragile self killed.
What's the typical encounter in PvP these days? 2 sci, three? those "Super numbers" are still subject to de-buffing. Get enough de-buffers on the field, and base rates really matter a lot more.
Like, say, that AOE subnuke that knocks down things i order from longest to shortest cooldown, Tyken's rifts, Grav wells, etc. etc, not to mention Duty officer abilities that debuff turn rate with some otherwise-useless bridge officer skills.
you're going to get it a lot harder if both teams are slinging massive debuffs, and it goes down to the point of base stats or some easy multiple of them- the more work you've had to put into overcoming it, the more damaging a debuffing power from the other side is to your performance.
with sci's its an even split between debuff heavy and particle damage madness these days. still need escorts around to capitalize on a debuffed target, a 15 turn escort with 5 fore weapons seems more than adequate do the task of shooting any target that just had everything striped, thats going nowhere fast.
Point being said, the other side of it is, that the same build with the same rep gear or fleet gear will never work as well on a ship with a 15 turn rate base, as one with a 17, and that the same through-shields hit will kill a ship with 200 crew faster than it will kill a ship with 100, or 75-the smaller crew will recover FASTER, which softens follow-on hits a lot more, since the're not hitting hull that is AS damaged, and .85 vs. .9 is a bit more relevant than either of you seem to think-it's like the difference between resilient shields, and other types- resilient let in 5%, others let in 10%. That's MORE hull hits, with the same equipment, after the math's done, meaning more CREW hits, and so on.
endstate being you erode just as fast, as a ship with LESS hull-and in the case of ships with large (proportionally) crew sizes, you don't recover as fast, so those hits mean more not just in raw immediate damage, but in reduction from procs AFTER the original hit.
note: vape-build BoPs, cripple/ kill Cruisers fast, have trouble with Escorts. There's a reason-the Escort's got a higher defense, making fewer hits actually hit, it's got a smaller crew, so the proportional loss is smaller in raw numbers and is recovered more quickly, which means the hull, if you didn't gt him on that first pass, will be near or at 100% a lot sooner, so your follow-up punch has to repeat-and-exceed a higher percentage of hull than it does on a typical DPS cruiser, than it does on an Escort.
So a slow escort, with poor turn, dies FASTER to a VAPE build than a fast turner. That's relevant to Romulans too-they can kill a MaHa a LOT faster than they can kill a Phantom or even a Hegh'ta, assuming base builds at the same level for all three, with the same amount of grind involved in the build, and the same financial investment.
the weight and value everyone is applying to all the MaHa's stats is pretty much backwards. most of all this crew thing. there is a slightly noticeable difference between a ship with 50 crew and 5000, not between 50 and 200. ~500 shield hitpoints has nothing on 8k to 10k hull hitpoints, especially when DR doubles the amount and severity of shield bypassing TRIBBLE. the ships that have the most resistance to vapers, are the ones with the highest HULL hitpoints. any good vaper is going to attack you wile you cant use TT, and hit hard enough to make ANY shield facing disappear, at that point all you got is hull. this raptor has as much, or MORE hull then any current tier 5 ship does on holo. more vulnerable to vape, please.
at this point i think the raptor gets a better deal here. also, if you haven't gotten on tribble, unlocked tier 2 of the rep, and got the delta alliance sets from drozana, you have no frame of reference to talk about how well any ship will do with this or that turn rate. your preconceptions are outdated.
It's why you don't see Raptors in PvP very often, and almost never in the hands of experienced players.
You see all kinds of Lockbox ships, you see FedScorts ranging from the Patrol to the Defiant...
but you don't see raptors, not even the Mirror Qin or Mirror Somraw. There's a reason, and it's not the forward firepower...
You DO see Raptors in fleet alerts, and STF's, but you don't see them in PvP. I'm more likely to see another Bird of Prey,than any sort of Raptor, and I suspect after about the first week, that's going to remain the trend. You'll see Battlecruisers, Lockbox ships, and the occasional nutjob (like myself) in a BoP, but...
like the Bort, you won't see MaHas. even when you're looking across the map at a team comprised of all five T6 Fed ships (or some mix of Feddies and Roms), you won't. You'll see Qibs more often-and they only have 3 tac consoles.
you dont see raptors because there are 2 of them, and the better one is a clone of the OLD patrol escort. both happen to be in the bottom 5 of all tac COM ships, and its not because they happen to be called raptors, it purely their below average stats in every category, not just shield mod or turn rate. the MaHa is a zindi that has a MUCH better station setup, a lot more hitpoints, and loses a base 2 of turn and a few hundred shield hitpoints. there's a bigger difference in turn between the zindi and bug, then between the MaHa and zindi. why isn't it considered noncompetitive for the same reasons the MaHa allegedly is?
I'm not saying "Don't use it", but if you don't recognize that the MaHa's basically a gimped escort like every OTHER Raptor out there, and proclaim it "Best" Escort, and people do buy it, the reaction's going to bear quite a resemblance to how people, once they put hands on them, reacted to the Bort-and I'm not talking about the positive reaction, either.
it isn't the same thing as flying a BoP, where once you slot in, you know you're going to die a lot. A raptor's got to fly a different regime from a BoP-it has to fly like an Escort-because hull repair rates, shielding, and station layout don't let it take hits like a cruiser.
a fifteen turn rate is a serious impact to performance in an escort-like item everywhere but PvE, and being out-flown-out-of-the-box doesn't help. I've got kills with a Norgh-that's a ship with one less ful seat, and only three tac consoles, in frantic melee. It's not easy, but it's possible. Five/Five layouts aren't required to kill other players.
but if you're a glass cannon, you need the ability to out-fly your opponent-and the MaHa doesn't have that, so telling people how it's "The Best Escort in the game" is dishonest and will not have good long-term impacts.
as I said, the MaHa is ideally suited to DPS racing in STFs. It's mediocre-to-weak for PvP.
i don't call any escort best, because there's to many sub categories of escort performance, an not one owns them all. theres best dueler, best intercepter, best fire support, best DPS, best alpha striker, best speed tanker, best soak tanker, hell even best beam boat escort. but comparing this to the bortas is absurd, there are no deep, disqualifying, issues on this thing, its nothing but stat give and take that all levels out in the end.
i jumped in my 15 turn akira on tribble, and with 3 turn consoles, EPtE1 with 113 engine power, AtD1 with 39 aux, im getting 82 turn and 126 speed. pretty sure i would need a risan or a bug to that casually get get those numbers on holo.
on my 17 turn hirogen, with the same exact setup, i managed 119 speed and 88 turn. akira has .2 impulse mod, hunter has .19. MatHa will have .20, but zindi still has a slightly better .21. zindi at most will probably get ~90 turn rate and 135 speed with the same setup, real huge difference we got here. :rolleyes:
i honestly couldn't tell the difference between flying the 2 back to back. they both were having over 80 turn rate, ~120 speed. beyond this there is almost no tactical benefit, it just becomes more dificult to not overshoot.
it can have a LTC and LT eng and a 2 AtB build, and have all the same heals as any tac cruiser can run. or it can go toe to toe with any other speed demon out there. there is no glass to be found here, you will have to look somewhere else. it can use its universal LT for sci, so its intel sci station can slot intel skills the zindi cant.
mediocre-to-weak? after LOR launches, it will be among the top 5 escorts, even in pvp. im sorry but your judgment is impaired.
i don't call any escort best, because there's to many sub categories of escort performance, an not one owns them all. theres best dueler, best intercepter, best fire support, best DPS, best alpha striker, best speed tanker, best soak tanker, hell even best beam boat escort. but comparing this to the bortas is absurd, there are no deep, disqualifying, issues on this thing, its nothing but stat give and take that all levels out in the end.
i jumped in my 15 turn akira on tribble, and with 3 turn consoles, EPtE1 with 113 engine power, AtD1 with 39 aux, im getting 82 turn and 126 speed. pretty sure i would need a risan or a bug to that casually get get those numbers on holo.
on my 17 turn hirogen, with the same exact setup, i managed 119 speed and 88 turn. akira has .2 impulse mod, hunter has .19. MatHa will have .20, but zindi still has a slightly better .21. zindi at most will probably get ~90 turn rate and 135 speed with the same setup, real huge difference we got here. :rolleyes:
i honestly couldn't tell the difference between flying the 2 back to back. they both were having over 80 turn rate, ~120 speed. beyond this there is almost no tactical benefit, it just becomes more dificult to not overshoot.
it can have a LTC and LT eng and a 2 AtB build, and have all the same heals as any tac cruiser can run. or it can go toe to toe with any other speed demon out there. there is no glass to be found here, you will have to look somewhere else. it can use its universal LT for sci, so its intel sci station can slot intel skills the zindi cant.
mediocre-to-weak? after LOR launches, it will be among the top 5 escorts, even in pvp. im sorry but your judgment is impaired.
I think it will be very good in PVE but I have doubts for it performance in PVP since I flew raptors (mirror Qin,fleet Somraw) quite a lot and when I see 15 turn/0.85 shield mod bad memories came back.
What do you say about the t2 new reputation perk I can't test it so I will wait and see ,there are only 2 weeks until Maha will be purchasable ( using that trait means you loose one slot from the 4 available space slots while fed escorts won't have to do that so they win a space trait slot space)
Maha looks to me like a modified kumari with less turn rate,better boff,less shield .
Since the kumari will get to T5U personally I think Maha deserves at least 17 turn ratio
or battlecloak and then it would be a good T6 PVP escort.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Maha looks to me like a modified kumari with less turn rate,better boff,less shield .
Since the kumari will get to T5U personally I think Maha deserves at least 17 turn ratio
or battlecloak and then it would be a good T6 PVP escort.
If you fail to see the power behind the Mat'ha raptor, you really have to learn a lot about escort-type ships, or more generally those with a Commander Tactical.
Kumari can't cloak. Mat'ha has it built in, so there are no drawbacks for it. Different story for the Defiant.
Obsolete information now but I have been able to keep some of my heavier escorts in dogfights with focused builds. My fed engi has a JHEC with 13 turn-rate, I keep AtD and EPtE at full up-time and use the Omega shield (for the 2pc) that gives speed buff on damage. Also have Theta Radiation and Tractor mines if something tries to hug my tailpipe. I have been able to take out bugs with that. My fed tac has the Fleet Armitage (so much regret now over spending that $$ to support cryptic) which is a bit faster at 15 turn-rate, I was able to keep it in dog-fights with EPtE and Zemoks (plural) for APO uptime, but not as effectively. As has been pointed out, anything you do, a fast ship can also do, and they will be faster as a result of it.
This new stuff, it seems like you will have to want to use it. I'm guessing the Delta rep set isnt going to be perfect replacement for all the other sets out there, so you would give up something to get it. Same for the proficiency thing whatever its called, opportunity cost for wasitng it. I TRIBBLE-u-me on both of those, cryptic has done plenty of stupid stuff before though.
Doesn't this feel like a "jumping the shark" move? Tier 5U <<<<<<<<<<<Tier 6 on almost all fronts (to be completely cleared by tier 6 fleet). This jump is bigger than the free level 40's to most of the available 50's and lockbox. Ditching the previous lockbox ships in favor of the certain tier 6 variety (this to me is the biggest faux pas... I will never buy a lockbox ship again).
I can appreciate the effort to make $$. I would be ok with tier 5u to tier 6 being "I'm looking up at your eyes." I would be better with "give me some cash, here is your lt comm bridge officer but no intelligence for you," push for $$. I'm really struggling with the "I'm looking at your b@lls, f@#% all the ships you earned/purchased in game, death to your alts," TRIBBLE we're receiving. This is my first MMO. I am technically a whale (my spending qualifies). I'm rewriting my view/fun in mmo's based on this experience.
I feel like this is a "squeeze the addicts" move. Your casual guys won't feel much. They don't care that much. Your new players... umm... I don't feel like they care about those guys anymore. It's a LOOOOOOONG way up.
Statistically speaking, the Recluse, TSABC, Sci Oddy, that KDF ship that looks ugly, and the Obelisk still remain the most heal-capable ships out there, due to the boff layout and console setups.
HOWEVER, and this is the important thing, these ships are at a disadvantage against the new Intel boff abilities released by Sh!tstorm Rising. As far as I know, the Intel powers that cause turbulence and other disable effects cannot be countered with regular tac/sci/eng abilities. Please correct me if this is wrong.
Assuming it's right, this means a T5/T5U healer can be knocked out while the enemy team pulverizes a target - including the healer - and there isn't a thing the healer can do about it. And since T5/T5U ships currently have no Intel seating abilities, they cannot mount the Intel Team to cleanse. T5U ships are at a disadvantage.
I hate to say it, but it's either upgrade to T6 or go back to VPvP. And while the Guardian doesn't look to be the most ideal healboat out there in terms of the console and boff layout, it's better than T5U. Besides, people have gotten by with far less. (Outhealed a Recluse in that, I did!)
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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I have to concur. This intel-ship silliness is getting out of hand. Last night in "Cap 'n Splode," I found myself up against a bunch of T6 ships all spamming ionic turbulence and whatever that "all your powers go black" cheese is. I literally couldn't get a shot off before I was debuffed and crippled by a pair of scis and then left naked while the escorts and cruisers pounded me into space dust.
Note: I was flying a relatively OP (by pre-DR standards) T5-U R'mor with all Mark 14 gear pushing 400+ into PartGen skills - and yet I hardly had a chance to activate a single Boff power (I think I maybe popped one or two of them with a lucky FBP).
I just pinged 60 and took a vanilla maha raptor into PvP arena...its a beast. The fact it can run Intel team and ionic turbulence while maintaining a conventional escort layout makes xindis and bugs laughable.
It dies to neutronic torp spread 3 all day long though:)
I just pinged 60 and took a vanilla maha raptor into PvP arena...its a beast. The fact it can run Intel team and ionic turbulence while maintaining a conventional escort layout makes xindis and bugs laughable.
It dies to neutronic torp spread 3 all day long though:)
Xindi has overly superior shields (0.83 vs 1.1 is HUGE) and hull, outmaneuvers the Matha all the day.
Bug can stay on its rear arc all the day.
If anything, Xindi laughs at everything out there.
Sad Pandas PvP - Starfleet Dental Member - Lag Industries Leader
--
"What a time it was, with all the world against us, what a time it was... When all we did seemed wrong,
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
I have used it to play DR content with a cheap pvp setting .
Just on stats ( if not exchange prices ), it's obvious that t5u xindi and JHAS are better at their job.
However, the Matha can use intel team and ionic turbulence, whose cooldowns can be reduced with an aux2bat build.
Consider that the ionic turbulence shot seems to have a 180 radius.
Xindi has overly superior shields (0.83 vs 1.1 is HUGE) and hull, outmaneuvers the Matha all the day.
Bug can stay on its rear arc all the day.
If anything, Xindi laughs at everything out there.
Show me a Xindi who laughs after a match vs my raptor
both are still very good scorts - xindi can be used on romulans.
But the Raptor is still as good as the xindi for me - there enough ways to push the turn rate.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Shak - Fed/Rom - Sad PandasScort-Veteran - Known Haxxor Shak'Re - KDF - Soehne von Khaless (Svk) T'Shara - Fed/Rom - 58. Geschwader
Show me a Xindi who laughs after a match vs my raptor
both are still very good scorts - xindi can be used on romulans.
But the Raptor is still as good as the xindi for me - there enough ways to push the turn rate.
You're too hax for my Xindi.
Sad Pandas PvP - Starfleet Dental Member - Lag Industries Leader
--
"What a time it was, with all the world against us, what a time it was... When all we did seemed wrong,
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
note that i'd rate the best tier 5U ships at no more then 6 or 7 at the very most.
Phantom- with its ship trait and the gel pack console, your fed character basically never needs a second copy of AtB again. id rate it lower, because a 2 AtB build would be difficult to pull off on this, if not for the ship trait. intel COM and LTC tac with an AtB build give you all the tac and intel skills you could want, on an excellent escort chassis
Eclipse- its real easy to run up to 4 intel skills on this, has all the base stats needed to do devastating damage with a SS cannon/neutronic torp spread build, or a SS beam boat build. basically a +3 galor.
Scryer- the only sci ship with extensive access to intel powers, and the only one that can boost aux power 30, 40 or 50 past the usual hard caps, meaning its control or offensive sci has potential far beyond all other sci ships. can even use cannons, but sort of pointless without like a LTC tac at least.
Dauntless- garbage, was only any good at bringing with it a GW to japori grinding. thank god i didn't have to level grind that ship without those 'exploits'. all that tac and it cant even use DHCs? but the scryer can? at least then it could run a GW/CSV/TS build pretty well, but nooooo. all that tac is pointless and useless, eng is insufficient, it can slot 2 intel powers, but then is left with only a COM station for sci, on a chassis thats good for nothing but being a sci skill platform. worst ship since the galaxy R.
Guardian- majorly let down by only a LT level intel power, ship really should have had its LTC tac or sci be its intel station. eclipse is just vastly better, can use DHCs, 10 turn rate, cloak. LTC sci on a tac cruiser is not that useful without DHC useability, for a GW/CSV/TS combo. at least it can use OSS, so its beam DPS with FAW should still be in scimitar territory. even though this ratting is low, its still blows out basically all tier 5U beam boats.
Qib- an eclips that turns even better, has even more hull, is in a more compact shape, and even has a battle cloak. for the ship that looks like they it got the least art time, they managed to make it the best ship in the game.
MatHa- only tier 6 with 5 fore weapons, only draw backs are a lack of COM intel hybrid, running 2 AtB and OSS leaves you with just 1 sci skill, and its turn rate is slightly below average. give it the same rating as the Phantom, because wile 5 v 4 fore weapons, Phantom can use SS, and its trait makes 2 AtB builds unnecessary, plus whatever other give and take you can find in the stats.
compared to the zindi, this can slot OSS, which is a HUGE deal, attack from cloak, and its cannon barrage console wile on is like 2 more CRF DHCs worth of damage on top of your 5 fore weapons already. its final turn rate compared to the zindi is down by about 5 at the most, hardly noticeable. the zindi is not better, another 7 in comparison.
Faeht- best vapper period. kind of a tin can, not AtB capable, its LT intel station is its only eng seat, this ship is really only good for 1 pass and run, if thats what you build it for it should be amazing.
Aelahl- man i wish this had a higher end intel station. sorta like the guardian, only it can use DHCs, but loses the LTC sci that would have been another thing that would have made this a trully wonderful ship. its still pretty great, its got your basic tac cruiser station setup, 10 turn, romulan battle cloak, can use DHCs and basically flys the way i wish the d'deridex did. its also got the least opportunity cost to running 2 intel skills. if only it had more then an intel LT.
I looked at most t6 ships and none of them make me want to pull my KDF tac out of a Bugship and B'rel, and my sci will keep using a B'rel and Wells for the most part. The Raptor looks nice but not sure if I want to get it yet because of the 15 base turn.
"Qib- an eclips that turns even better, has even more hull, is in a more compact shape, and even has a battle cloak. for the ship that looks like they it got the least art time, they managed to make it the best ship in the game."
Damn...Deeeeeeevvss!!!!!!!:mad:
dont worry, it hardly maters that the kdf ship is better. just being a fed with all the tier 6 ship traits available makes you far superior
dont worry, it hardly maters that the kdf ship is better. just being a fed with all the tier 6 ship traits available makes you far superior
Bug is better then 7/10, I haven't run into any new t6 escorts that can beat mine in dogfights, it would probably do better then the Xindi against new escorts. Also you leave out the t5-u b'rel, Mini is slaughtering everything in it still, he hasn't saw a reason to use his Rom or t6 ships. Its also great as a cloaked sci ship which is what I have been using it for.
Comments
lets see beams ....250degrees firing arc ...so front and back beams pretty much cover all directions.since you have a 360 degrees firing ball you need turn because.... ???
Well, there is maneuverability, which is very useful if not needed in sci ships (one of the reasons the wells is so well thought off aside from the boff setup) and then there is OMFG LUDICROUS SPEED!!! Which seems to be the way DR is taking everything too.
Also, I guess now that the starts for the dauntless are out the discussion of whether it will be the well's replacement is finally over. The dauntless is a joke of a science ships and will be magnificent ... as cannon fodder.
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
this is not something i need to be informed of, its just the main rational behind the arguments that the MaHas ain't no good, so i keep responding to that. but, somewhat isolated escort vs escort clashes happen constantly in arena too, and despite certain escorts being much better at defeating other escorts, ultimately its which team that has a better healer and/or target caller that has a bigger role in who might win or lose that 'duel'.
who brought up the bortas? don't be under the mistaken impression that just because i use a ship, and can do well in it, that i think its good! thats all in spite of the ship im using. it can make it interesting, and fun, to succeed in something like that, then it can be just mowing everyone down with my zindi.
lol, its not that simple with warbirds. there's not enough power for them to have strong shields OR move fast. warp core ships tend not to even have to choose between the 2, wile warbirds have nether. their effective scope is quite a bit more limited, and they should probably be cloaked more often then viable, if they aren't they become a liability. in the melee of an arena, for the constant trade of pressure damage that can put your team in a 4v5 situation, meaning the rest of your team has to pick up the slack with thier damage soak. its up to the warbird to be a critical component in the getting of decisive kills, for it to pull its weight. and do that wile not getting it's more fragile self killed.
with sci's its an even split between debuff heavy and particle damage madness these days. still need escorts around to capitalize on a debuffed target, a 15 turn escort with 5 fore weapons seems more than adequate do the task of shooting any target that just had everything striped, thats going nowhere fast.
the weight and value everyone is applying to all the MaHa's stats is pretty much backwards. most of all this crew thing. there is a slightly noticeable difference between a ship with 50 crew and 5000, not between 50 and 200. ~500 shield hitpoints has nothing on 8k to 10k hull hitpoints, especially when DR doubles the amount and severity of shield bypassing TRIBBLE. the ships that have the most resistance to vapers, are the ones with the highest HULL hitpoints. any good vaper is going to attack you wile you cant use TT, and hit hard enough to make ANY shield facing disappear, at that point all you got is hull. this raptor has as much, or MORE hull then any current tier 5 ship does on holo. more vulnerable to vape, please.
at this point i think the raptor gets a better deal here. also, if you haven't gotten on tribble, unlocked tier 2 of the rep, and got the delta alliance sets from drozana, you have no frame of reference to talk about how well any ship will do with this or that turn rate. your preconceptions are outdated.
you dont see raptors because there are 2 of them, and the better one is a clone of the OLD patrol escort. both happen to be in the bottom 5 of all tac COM ships, and its not because they happen to be called raptors, it purely their below average stats in every category, not just shield mod or turn rate. the MaHa is a zindi that has a MUCH better station setup, a lot more hitpoints, and loses a base 2 of turn and a few hundred shield hitpoints. there's a bigger difference in turn between the zindi and bug, then between the MaHa and zindi. why isn't it considered noncompetitive for the same reasons the MaHa allegedly is?
i don't call any escort best, because there's to many sub categories of escort performance, an not one owns them all. theres best dueler, best intercepter, best fire support, best DPS, best alpha striker, best speed tanker, best soak tanker, hell even best beam boat escort. but comparing this to the bortas is absurd, there are no deep, disqualifying, issues on this thing, its nothing but stat give and take that all levels out in the end.
i jumped in my 15 turn akira on tribble, and with 3 turn consoles, EPtE1 with 113 engine power, AtD1 with 39 aux, im getting 82 turn and 126 speed. pretty sure i would need a risan or a bug to that casually get get those numbers on holo.
on my 17 turn hirogen, with the same exact setup, i managed 119 speed and 88 turn. akira has .2 impulse mod, hunter has .19. MatHa will have .20, but zindi still has a slightly better .21. zindi at most will probably get ~90 turn rate and 135 speed with the same setup, real huge difference we got here. :rolleyes:
i honestly couldn't tell the difference between flying the 2 back to back. they both were having over 80 turn rate, ~120 speed. beyond this there is almost no tactical benefit, it just becomes more dificult to not overshoot.
it can have a LTC and LT eng and a 2 AtB build, and have all the same heals as any tac cruiser can run. or it can go toe to toe with any other speed demon out there. there is no glass to be found here, you will have to look somewhere else. it can use its universal LT for sci, so its intel sci station can slot intel skills the zindi cant.
mediocre-to-weak? after LOR launches, it will be among the top 5 escorts, even in pvp. im sorry but your judgment is impaired.
I think it will be very good in PVE but I have doubts for it performance in PVP since I flew raptors (mirror Qin,fleet Somraw) quite a lot and when I see 15 turn/0.85 shield mod bad memories came back.
What do you say about the t2 new reputation perk I can't test it so I will wait and see ,there are only 2 weeks until Maha will be purchasable ( using that trait means you loose one slot from the 4 available space slots while fed escorts won't have to do that so they win a space trait slot space)
Maha looks to me like a modified kumari with less turn rate,better boff,less shield .
Since the kumari will get to T5U personally I think Maha deserves at least 17 turn ratio
or battlecloak and then it would be a good T6 PVP escort.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
If you fail to see the power behind the Mat'ha raptor, you really have to learn a lot about escort-type ships, or more generally those with a Commander Tactical.
Kumari can't cloak. Mat'ha has it built in, so there are no drawbacks for it. Different story for the Defiant.
This new stuff, it seems like you will have to want to use it. I'm guessing the Delta rep set isnt going to be perfect replacement for all the other sets out there, so you would give up something to get it. Same for the proficiency thing whatever its called, opportunity cost for wasitng it. I TRIBBLE-u-me on both of those, cryptic has done plenty of stupid stuff before though.
I can appreciate the effort to make $$. I would be ok with tier 5u to tier 6 being "I'm looking up at your eyes." I would be better with "give me some cash, here is your lt comm bridge officer but no intelligence for you," push for $$. I'm really struggling with the "I'm looking at your b@lls, f@#% all the ships you earned/purchased in game, death to your alts," TRIBBLE we're receiving. This is my first MMO. I am technically a whale (my spending qualifies). I'm rewriting my view/fun in mmo's based on this experience.
I feel like this is a "squeeze the addicts" move. Your casual guys won't feel much. They don't care that much. Your new players... umm... I don't feel like they care about those guys anymore. It's a LOOOOOOONG way up.
60secs. You read it wrong.
Just my two cents.
Statistically speaking, the Recluse, TSABC, Sci Oddy, that KDF ship that looks ugly, and the Obelisk still remain the most heal-capable ships out there, due to the boff layout and console setups.
HOWEVER, and this is the important thing, these ships are at a disadvantage against the new Intel boff abilities released by Sh!tstorm Rising. As far as I know, the Intel powers that cause turbulence and other disable effects cannot be countered with regular tac/sci/eng abilities. Please correct me if this is wrong.
Assuming it's right, this means a T5/T5U healer can be knocked out while the enemy team pulverizes a target - including the healer - and there isn't a thing the healer can do about it. And since T5/T5U ships currently have no Intel seating abilities, they cannot mount the Intel Team to cleanse. T5U ships are at a disadvantage.
I hate to say it, but it's either upgrade to T6 or go back to VPvP. And while the Guardian doesn't look to be the most ideal healboat out there in terms of the console and boff layout, it's better than T5U. Besides, people have gotten by with far less. (Outhealed a Recluse in that, I did!)
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Note: I was flying a relatively OP (by pre-DR standards) T5-U R'mor with all Mark 14 gear pushing 400+ into PartGen skills - and yet I hardly had a chance to activate a single Boff power (I think I maybe popped one or two of them with a lucky FBP).
Just ridiculous...
RCK
It dies to neutronic torp spread 3 all day long though:)
Xindi has overly superior shields (0.83 vs 1.1 is HUGE) and hull, outmaneuvers the Matha all the day.
Bug can stay on its rear arc all the day.
If anything, Xindi laughs at everything out there.
Have you actually used the raptor yet?
have you actually used a Xindi escort yet?
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
I have used it to play DR content with a cheap pvp setting .
Just on stats ( if not exchange prices ), it's obvious that t5u xindi and JHAS are better at their job.
However, the Matha can use intel team and ionic turbulence, whose cooldowns can be reduced with an aux2bat build.
Consider that the ionic turbulence shot seems to have a 180 radius.
Show me a Xindi who laughs after a match vs my raptor
both are still very good scorts - xindi can be used on romulans.
But the Raptor is still as good as the xindi for me - there enough ways to push the turn rate.
Shak - Fed/Rom - Sad Pandas Scort-Veteran - Known Haxxor
Shak'Re - KDF - Soehne von Khaless (Svk)
T'Shara - Fed/Rom - 58. Geschwader
You're too hax for my Xindi.
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
old
Phantom 7.5
Eclipse 6.5
Scryer 8.5
Dauntless 4
Guardian 8.5
Qib 8.5
MatHa 9
Faeht 9
Aelahl 7
new
Phantom 9
Eclipse 9
Scryer 9
Dauntless 4
Guardian 7
Qib 9.5
MatHa 9
Faeht 9
Aelahl 8
note that i'd rate the best tier 5U ships at no more then 6 or 7 at the very most.
Phantom- with its ship trait and the gel pack console, your fed character basically never needs a second copy of AtB again. id rate it lower, because a 2 AtB build would be difficult to pull off on this, if not for the ship trait. intel COM and LTC tac with an AtB build give you all the tac and intel skills you could want, on an excellent escort chassis
Eclipse- its real easy to run up to 4 intel skills on this, has all the base stats needed to do devastating damage with a SS cannon/neutronic torp spread build, or a SS beam boat build. basically a +3 galor.
Scryer- the only sci ship with extensive access to intel powers, and the only one that can boost aux power 30, 40 or 50 past the usual hard caps, meaning its control or offensive sci has potential far beyond all other sci ships. can even use cannons, but sort of pointless without like a LTC tac at least.
Dauntless- garbage, was only any good at bringing with it a GW to japori grinding. thank god i didn't have to level grind that ship without those 'exploits'. all that tac and it cant even use DHCs? but the scryer can? at least then it could run a GW/CSV/TS build pretty well, but nooooo. all that tac is pointless and useless, eng is insufficient, it can slot 2 intel powers, but then is left with only a COM station for sci, on a chassis thats good for nothing but being a sci skill platform. worst ship since the galaxy R.
Guardian- majorly let down by only a LT level intel power, ship really should have had its LTC tac or sci be its intel station. eclipse is just vastly better, can use DHCs, 10 turn rate, cloak. LTC sci on a tac cruiser is not that useful without DHC useability, for a GW/CSV/TS combo. at least it can use OSS, so its beam DPS with FAW should still be in scimitar territory. even though this ratting is low, its still blows out basically all tier 5U beam boats.
Qib- an eclips that turns even better, has even more hull, is in a more compact shape, and even has a battle cloak. for the ship that looks like they it got the least art time, they managed to make it the best ship in the game.
MatHa- only tier 6 with 5 fore weapons, only draw backs are a lack of COM intel hybrid, running 2 AtB and OSS leaves you with just 1 sci skill, and its turn rate is slightly below average. give it the same rating as the Phantom, because wile 5 v 4 fore weapons, Phantom can use SS, and its trait makes 2 AtB builds unnecessary, plus whatever other give and take you can find in the stats.
compared to the zindi, this can slot OSS, which is a HUGE deal, attack from cloak, and its cannon barrage console wile on is like 2 more CRF DHCs worth of damage on top of your 5 fore weapons already. its final turn rate compared to the zindi is down by about 5 at the most, hardly noticeable. the zindi is not better, another 7 in comparison.
Faeht- best vapper period. kind of a tin can, not AtB capable, its LT intel station is its only eng seat, this ship is really only good for 1 pass and run, if thats what you build it for it should be amazing.
Aelahl- man i wish this had a higher end intel station. sorta like the guardian, only it can use DHCs, but loses the LTC sci that would have been another thing that would have made this a trully wonderful ship. its still pretty great, its got your basic tac cruiser station setup, 10 turn, romulan battle cloak, can use DHCs and basically flys the way i wish the d'deridex did. its also got the least opportunity cost to running 2 intel skills. if only it had more then an intel LT.
What would the 5 or 6 tier 5U ships be? Thank you.
dont worry, it hardly maters that the kdf ship is better. just being a fed with all the tier 6 ship traits available makes you far superior
ummm off the top of my head
zindi
scimitar
recluse
adapted cruiser
nicor
palisade
wells
all 7/10 ships compared to tier 6
monbosh
patrol refit
sogolth
hunter
bug
avenger
mogh
d'deridex
odyssey
dhlean
norgh
adapted destroyer
aquarius
Narcine
jem dread
6/10
Bug is better then 7/10, I haven't run into any new t6 escorts that can beat mine in dogfights, it would probably do better then the Xindi against new escorts. Also you leave out the t5-u b'rel, Mini is slaughtering everything in it still, he hasn't saw a reason to use his Rom or t6 ships. Its also great as a cloaked sci ship which is what I have been using it for.