oh wow, ain't that the truth. cryptic certainly isn't as bad as some, all boring pve content is not locked behind cost, everything is grindable, etc, but the same thing is happening regardless. who do you think MOST of the wales have been? PVP'ers. whats there not enough of? pvp, there's always just BARLEY enough in the ques to get some games. to make wales happy, they have at least made sure pvp is still somewhat possible after all this time, but they have lost a ton of us already, some admittedly big spenders. DR is going to make pvp continuing to be possible for everyone damn near impossible, not with an all new tier of absolutely beter ships, and putting a huge paygate on the last 4 tiers of gear grade. not to mention the new ship tier is just an excuse to raise all prices across the board. and that whole tier 5 not being the top tier anymore thing? thats HEAVILY in that immoral zone.
i wouldn't call my self a wale, but i easily have hundreds of dollars worth of stuff in this game, much less then half i've ground for. add in the life time and legacy pack? just over a grand is possible. i wouldn't be surprised if any serious pvper could say the same.
it doesn't matter to Cryptic as long as they get that first quarterly return from sales to all those Feds who looked at the stats released and said "Hell Yeah, take my money!"
because, they're the ones that count. People like you, people like me, we don't count for them.
cryptic has a unique strategy, alienate the whales and sub whales, and keep shoveling that shovelwear pve, and selling that EC cap raiser and maybe even a ship or 2 to all the revolving door players. to anyone who is a startrek fan, this stuff practically sells itself, and with no alternatives we just keep hanging on by a thread
I think the harder thing to do is how to balance in the first place.
Seriously, I think we all know that practically no one can agree on much more than 10% of the suggestions made for better balance.
And to do that without blowing up the non-PvP players, who do compose the majority at the moment? A near impossible task. Changes to equipment for balancing, combined with those who are unhappy about something irrelevant to them being done for a season......yeah.
True, there have been many PvPers who left and may come back. But then the division of opinions strikes again. How many of them would feel the 'new balance' is balanced, and thus actually come back?
Also, how many non-PvP focused players have left and could be drawn back by some smaller addition instead of a PvP season? How would that compare to the number of PvPers who would be drawn in?
We don't have hard numbers or evidence. It's difficult to prove anything!
So yeah, a lot of effort, a lot of cost, for an uncertain outcome. It's no wonder why a business wouldn't take such a step. I still believe a PvP revamp could work in certain ways, but it's perfectly understandable why Cryptic doesn't want to do it.
honestly improving the balance we have now, that is actually pretty ok, is second to the NEED of proper match making. it only takes 1 bad match for a player to hate pvp more then someone who murders their parents, the way so many pve'ers talk about pvp.
this can end when they put in the time to create a basic leader board that tracks some factors, and rates how good your gear is. entirly in the background, this isnt about E-peen. from that leaderboard, you have actual match making script that will attempt to balance based on overall leaderboard score, and cap type on each team.
skill level segregation would make pvp a thing, attract all level of players, be something they could put in all 3 games, and create actual incentive to spend money and grind. they bleed so much money by putting this off, wile they over saturate with more and more pve.
Listen to the Deva for he is wise and his uniform has three stars.
A PVP season would be pretty much the biggest move STO has ever done and the chance of making a mis stepped is huge! I mean come on. Look at things like double tap, aux2batt, or beam overload? Even among the 5(?) pvpers in this part of the forums no one can come to clear way to fix those powers.
Cryptic is really big name company so making an major risk could turn STO into Champions or even worst and I'm sure as much BS as you give STO would rather the game as it is now then it becoming a insane cashgrab like NW or get on life support like Champions.
And before you say STO's money grabbing is worst try to use the exchange, change your character's look, change your armor's look, level up a white boff expy, or even pvp in Neverwinter.
PS: Oh yeah. askray, leave. I don't mean that in a mean way. There are KDF pvpers in this, aka some of the most bitter people I have ever seen in a MMO and while I won't say if their bitterness is right cause that leads into a whole new thread I will leave it at this. Bitterness can sometime be a poison and sane people don't play in poison.
PSS: To the guys that bought up LoL and DoTA, as a former LoL player "No. Just no. The chat in that game made zone look clean and sane." speaking of which. Something else I don't see talk about much when people bring up pvp "fixing". Yes have devs have their part to play in making pvp fun for everyone but do we know who else have a role to play in making pvp something everyone wants to do?
Listen to the Deva for he is wise and his uniform has three stars.
A PVP season would be pretty much the biggest move STO has ever done and the chance of making a mis stepped is huge! I mean come on. Look at things like double tap, aux2batt, or beam overload? Even among the 5(?) pvpers in this part of the forums no one can come to clear way to fix those powers.
Cryptic is really big name company so making an major risk could turn STO into Champions or even worst and I'm sure as much BS as you give STO would rather the game as it is now then it becoming a insane cashgrab like NW or get on life support like Champions.
And before you say STO's money grabbing is worst try to use the exchange, change your character's look, change your armor's look, level up a white boff expy, or even pvp in Neverwinter.
Uhm, the issue was never double tap. Originally BO would put weapons offline. They removed that but retained a significant drain. Then PWE added Marion who made power drain NIL and added 20+% critz. It was never really broken. It was BROKE. Same with HY/TS.
Aux2Batt isn't the end-all-be-all. It's annoying but they "again!" made it worse by removing the shared CD between emergency powers! Uhm, it wasn't BROKEN. IT was BROKE.
The game's pay gate will make pvp even less desirable for a lot of people. I use to pvp twice a week with my fleet. We were not great or anything, but we tried. People got sick of the same ole same ole. No new maps or ideas , just new clickies, and ever increasing spam.
DR will make it even harder to get a match...assuming anyone wants one. And without pvp or hardcore raiding what will those whales do to show off their new shinnies? Cruising around ESD will get old pretty quick, and we all know the pre sale was a bust or else they would not have tossed in the Dauntless.
I would like to thank "askray" for commenting in this thread. It has helped me to better appreciate just how little Cryptic/PWE cares about my needs and concerns. Nothing inspires me to open my wallet like a belligerent, condescending forum moderator.
First rule of CRM: Do NOT insult, or otherwise talk down to, your paying customers.
I would like to thank "askray" for commenting in this thread. It has helped me to better appreciate just how little Cryptic/PWE cares about my needs and concerns. Nothing inspires me to open my wallet like a belligerent, condescending forum moderator.
First rule of CRM: Do NOT insult, or otherwise talk down to, your paying customers.
RCK
The funny thing is that they dont even need to add much to make the pvp'ers happy...
But if we where to stumble upon a large Hirogen Holo-facility for spacebattle in the delta quadrant...... that would be fun... and also fitting the storyline now that there is peace.. *cringe*
"Better were the days when mastery o' space came not from bargains struck with eldritch creatures... but from the sweat of a man's brow and the strength of his back alone. Ye all know thi's to be true!"
Create a thread for a tournament to discuss rules...
And it's funny how that elephant continued to grow and grow in the thread as it went along.
Seriously, as funny as it was the read the back and forth between folks with askray - it was all that much more funny to me, personally, to read how many folks spoke as if the PvP community was a single entity - as if the easy fixes they envision would be the acceptable fixes/additions that everybody else does.
You can grab 10 random PvP folks.
You can grab 1000 random PvE folks.
You're likely to get more different answers on what is needed for PvP from the 10 PvP folks than what is needed for PvE from the 1000 PvE folks.
Pick a random console. Bam, you've got at least three points of view on it. Add a second console, bam - at least three more...where folks that might have been arguing on the first agree on the second. Add a third...etc, etc, etc.
It is an extremely divided community.
Some folks want new maps. Some folks /facepalm that, because the maps are just backgrounds that don't matter to them. Some folks want more scenario PvP. Some folks /facepalm that because they just want more arena pew pew.
The closest one could probably come to getting the PvP community in agreement is that Cryptic be trolling them...eh? It's hard not to look at so many things that are added to the game, look at the PvE content - look at PvP - and not come away that stuff was added to make the lives of PvP players more Hell...eh?
But even there, there are folks that absolutely love all the stuff that's being added...but even they probably take some enjoyment from the complaints from others and accept that Cryptic be trolling the PvP folks, no?
Even before S6, folks knew which way this game was headed...
The funny thing is that they dont even need to add much to make the pvp'ers happy...
No, the funny part is that they're openly disparaging one of their more desirable demographics. Sure, we whine a lot - about consoles, about traits, about power creep. But we also BUY STUFF. And very often, it's EXPENSIVE stuff. Lockbox keys, multi-ship c-store packs, zen/dil conversion for crafting/r&d.
To cite a well worn television example, WE are the coveted "18-29" demographic that advertisers want to reach. Seriously, who else would spend 1500-2500 zen on a throwaway ship just to get a single "OP" console? I'm actually considering getting the Vandal just to add Plasmonic Leech to my Dyson build.
We are the gearheads. We are the min/maxers. We are the ones who push the meta to the edge. And we're typically willing to pay handsomely for even the tiniest perceived edge.
Contrast this against PvE players, most of who (I'm guessing) are F2P-only. After all, unless you're trying to join the 10/20/30K DPS club, there is *nothing* in the game's PvE content that requires anything more than a modest grind.
In other words, I can help get the optional in ISE/KSE/CSE using nothing but the gear and ships I acquired while levelling. But take that same ship into Ker'rat or an Arena match and I'm cannon fodder.
Note: The only real exception to the PvE-is-for-F2P rule is the RPers (e.g. the ones who spend cash on stuff like character outfits and bikini's for Risa). But that's a discussion for another thread.
Bottom Line: I didn't just plunk down my first cash in STO so I could beat ISE faster. I did it to allow me to be competitive in a PvP context. If I were simply playing PvE only (something I did for my first 18 months in STO) I'd never have coughed up the dough. But for PvP, if you want to "play, you've got to pay." And given my lust for killing players on both sides of the faction isle, it's a cost I'm more than willing to bear.
Thing is, while we could go through and figure out all the numbers (well, we couldn't Cryptic is Cryptic after all...meh) - you'd have to prevent the ability of making any changes once the person decided to queue...there could be no switching of anything, because then the numbers would change.
You're also going to be looking at a range of numbers because of how various buffs can be applied...which gets back to the human factor.
Could take a team of five of me and five of you, same builds - exact builds...you're going to win 15-0 each and every time.
It's like the gear score discussion that's been going on for the L60 Elites.
And getting back to the inability to make changes once one joins a queue - you're going to have the folks that do make changes, that attempt to adapt to what is going on up in arms by denying them the ability to do that. It's come up in the console switching debates...
Overall PvP balance is an illusion.
You win some, you lose some - either way, it's an ongoing challenge to keep trying to get better - to adjust to or to create the next meta.
Folks have been arguing PvP balance in STO since beta, eh?
But as far as matchmaking based on gearing - it's just so dynamic and even full of RNG, that meh...well, it's one of the reasons some folks have floated the idea of two tiers - locked and unlocked. Basically the locked would be template builds - fused builds...Cryptic prefabs. It would be the closest thing to making the PvP akin to a FPS type game...where each person that selected a type would have the same type as another. There would be no gear gaps there. And then the unlocked play, where anything goes or folks would fight based on prearranged rules.
I guess that would be an area where folks might agree - that Cryptic is increasing the gap. They keep doing things on one hand to try to narrow that gap while on the other hand adding more things to widen that gap. The change to Rep Passives...an attempt to narrow the gap. R&D Traits - Starship Mastery - Captain Specialization - Starship Traits...widening the gap. It's kind of funny if you step back from it for a moment, have a few drinks, and then look again. Up close, it's just such major /facepalm...meh.
But even there, there are the folks that will say why shouldn't they have those advantages from having put the time in?
Everything is going to be a disagreement...
Though, folks that don't see how the KDF are getting screwed with the Starship Trait thing...they're just (insert violation of forum TOS). I finally gave up...meh.
Cryptic uses the term "interesting"...I try to reply to that without violating the forum TOS, that what it seems like they consider to be interesting is along the lines of playing peek-a-boo with a toddler.
So they design all this random peek-a-boo TRIBBLE so that their playerbase goes teehee.
Fly around in circles pressing the spacebar waiting for something interesting to happen...Cryptic Design 101.
I keep thinking back to that build askray asked for help with...and I keep hoping that it was just a sacrificial post, to get some attention focused on how bad that was to stop some of the other discussions that were taking place. But then there was that Intel livestream with Smirk and the builds he ran...and...dayum, wtf?
And lol, this is where I end up getting accused of being an elitist - yeah, fail ol' me gets accused of being an elitist. They don't get just how bad at this game I am compared to the folks that are good at it...they just can't fathom just how pathetic at the game they are. I guess in their eyes, that makes me an elitist - doesn't matter how much I can demonstrate how bad I am at the game, doesn't matter how many folks I could get to come in and tell how bad I am at the game...because I'm not as pathetic as them and I wish they'd put the least bit of effort into not sucking as much as they do, I'm an elitist.
This game is what it is...and while folks may have been taking offense at what askray was saying as an insult to the PvPers...lol...think about what he said and what that means for the average player out there, eh? I remember I had a cow over one podcast where Geko basically made the players out to be idiots...that was before Brandon left, and I went off on Geko in one thread. That was back when I spent most of my time in the PvP forums or Build forums and avoided the rest of the forums like the plague. You know though...you go out there, spend more time in the other sections - read through more of the threads...and maybe Geko shouldn't have said it about them, but lol - it's painfully true.
STO is not a MMO for gamers...
And yeah, my blood sugar is high - so I'm off on a pissy rant, that I know it's high removes any excuse of coming back later to apologize. I'm running with it...I'm burnt out.
I'm tired of having better hopes for the game. I'm tired of trying to think better of the average player in the game. I'm just damn tired of so damn much.
Damian did a thread about acceptance...and with both STO and its playerbase, acceptance is a constant grind - you have to keep accepting more and more...it whittles you down.
This game is obviously designed for a certain audience...why the Hell any of us are still here is beyond me.
Though, to be honest...I think the L60 Elites will be the test for PvP. If the L60 Elites are actually any sort of challenge - if they are not accessible to the common player, if they're something reserved for that minority of PvE players looking for a challenge...and Cryptic sticks to their guns for it. Then they might do something for PvP - God knows what - but they might do something for PvP. If the L60 Elites are just marketing hype or Cryptic caves (like they have every other time while trying to introduce challenge to PvE)...then that's pretty much going to be it - no reason to hold on to any delusional hope at that point.
Though, folks that don't see how the KDF are getting screwed with the Starship Trait thing...they're just (insert violation of forum TOS). I finally gave up...meh.
Yeah... so very much this... I get so frustrated I want to throw The Original Series out the window and just curse the mother-flankingship out of those dumb-afts.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
You want fair balanced fights?? VPVP get on it, ive had a few games now -- all balanced and fun games there is no op gear to whine and cry about and its cheap as can be- mirro ship like 200k ec and say 2 mil for all ur gear solves all this "cryptic keep releasing more TRIBBLE i must have" bs
I'd actually like to see VPvP taken up as an official 'thing' with maybe it's own ques. I'm hoping it takes off more fully among the player-base, but as it currently sits, it's still niche, and likely to be utterly ignored on an official level, as it eschews MOST of the ways Cryptic's been monetizing the game.
I think I'll try and get some of my fleetmates who've been turned off by witnessing the power-creep to try it.
Cryptic has proven time and again that pvp is an after thought to them ive gave up expecting anything from them- yes currently a niche only we the pvp folk can get it up and running and i see no reason why we cant- people are complaining abt op TRIBBLE the grind yada yada yada- vpvp is here and avoids all that-use it then simple easy solution
It's a short term solution. We might have fun for maybe 6 months then it will begin to stagnate again. People are still pew pewing in the same 3 maps the've had for years.
I agree maps would be nice but they arent the deal breaker for me- its more the lack of balancing items before release, the proven op/brokeness of certian things yes fluidic console im pointing at you! But yes even at short term that is better than no term
I've heard reports that L60 is not that challenging. People are able to complete objectives on tribble with their T4 boats. It's the same thing as before, high HP and ridiculous random crits.
Meh...
It was just released on the 18th, no? Are there enough L60 folks even to try to run them? I haven't seen any feedback on them in any of the threads - just folks speculating and some folks grumbling about the Elite slider on their way to 60. All sorts of Forum PvP going on in the threads...
normal/advanced arent really much of a challenge but they are more entertaining than current stfs in terms of content.
elite is basically difficulty buffed via mob hp, stringent time constraints and if anyone dies its over. same ai.
60 doesnt take much time at all on tribble, its just having 5 people on tribble at 60 to do it enough to beat it at the moment. Also appropriate to its name, borg disconnected likes to randomly disconnect people at certain moments during the mission, sometimes one, sometimes three. think of it as an added challenge.
Comments
oh wow, ain't that the truth. cryptic certainly isn't as bad as some, all boring pve content is not locked behind cost, everything is grindable, etc, but the same thing is happening regardless. who do you think MOST of the wales have been? PVP'ers. whats there not enough of? pvp, there's always just BARLEY enough in the ques to get some games. to make wales happy, they have at least made sure pvp is still somewhat possible after all this time, but they have lost a ton of us already, some admittedly big spenders. DR is going to make pvp continuing to be possible for everyone damn near impossible, not with an all new tier of absolutely beter ships, and putting a huge paygate on the last 4 tiers of gear grade. not to mention the new ship tier is just an excuse to raise all prices across the board. and that whole tier 5 not being the top tier anymore thing? thats HEAVILY in that immoral zone.
i wouldn't call my self a wale, but i easily have hundreds of dollars worth of stuff in this game, much less then half i've ground for. add in the life time and legacy pack? just over a grand is possible. i wouldn't be surprised if any serious pvper could say the same.
cryptic has a unique strategy, alienate the whales and sub whales, and keep shoveling that shovelwear pve, and selling that EC cap raiser and maybe even a ship or 2 to all the revolving door players. to anyone who is a startrek fan, this stuff practically sells itself, and with no alternatives we just keep hanging on by a thread
Seriously, I think we all know that practically no one can agree on much more than 10% of the suggestions made for better balance.
And to do that without blowing up the non-PvP players, who do compose the majority at the moment? A near impossible task. Changes to equipment for balancing, combined with those who are unhappy about something irrelevant to them being done for a season......yeah.
True, there have been many PvPers who left and may come back. But then the division of opinions strikes again. How many of them would feel the 'new balance' is balanced, and thus actually come back?
Also, how many non-PvP focused players have left and could be drawn back by some smaller addition instead of a PvP season? How would that compare to the number of PvPers who would be drawn in?
We don't have hard numbers or evidence. It's difficult to prove anything!
So yeah, a lot of effort, a lot of cost, for an uncertain outcome. It's no wonder why a business wouldn't take such a step. I still believe a PvP revamp could work in certain ways, but it's perfectly understandable why Cryptic doesn't want to do it.
this can end when they put in the time to create a basic leader board that tracks some factors, and rates how good your gear is. entirly in the background, this isnt about E-peen. from that leaderboard, you have actual match making script that will attempt to balance based on overall leaderboard score, and cap type on each team.
skill level segregation would make pvp a thing, attract all level of players, be something they could put in all 3 games, and create actual incentive to spend money and grind. they bleed so much money by putting this off, wile they over saturate with more and more pve.
A PVP season would be pretty much the biggest move STO has ever done and the chance of making a mis stepped is huge! I mean come on. Look at things like double tap, aux2batt, or beam overload? Even among the 5(?) pvpers in this part of the forums no one can come to clear way to fix those powers.
Cryptic is really big name company so making an major risk could turn STO into Champions or even worst and I'm sure as much BS as you give STO would rather the game as it is now then it becoming a insane cashgrab like NW or get on life support like Champions.
And before you say STO's money grabbing is worst try to use the exchange, change your character's look, change your armor's look, level up a white boff expy, or even pvp in Neverwinter.
PS: Oh yeah. askray, leave. I don't mean that in a mean way. There are KDF pvpers in this, aka some of the most bitter people I have ever seen in a MMO and while I won't say if their bitterness is right cause that leads into a whole new thread I will leave it at this. Bitterness can sometime be a poison and sane people don't play in poison.
PSS: To the guys that bought up LoL and DoTA, as a former LoL player "No. Just no. The chat in that game made zone look clean and sane." speaking of which. Something else I don't see talk about much when people bring up pvp "fixing". Yes have devs have their part to play in making pvp fun for everyone but do we know who else have a role to play in making pvp something everyone wants to do?
10 ec say you don't
Uhm, the issue was never double tap. Originally BO would put weapons offline. They removed that but retained a significant drain. Then PWE added Marion who made power drain NIL and added 20+% critz. It was never really broken. It was BROKE. Same with HY/TS.
Aux2Batt isn't the end-all-be-all. It's annoying but they "again!" made it worse by removing the shared CD between emergency powers! Uhm, it wasn't BROKEN. IT was BROKE.
KKTHX
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
DR will make it even harder to get a match...assuming anyone wants one. And without pvp or hardcore raiding what will those whales do to show off their new shinnies? Cruising around ESD will get old pretty quick, and we all know the pre sale was a bust or else they would not have tossed in the Dauntless.
Cryptic knows they failed.
I would like to thank "askray" for commenting in this thread. It has helped me to better appreciate just how little Cryptic/PWE cares about my needs and concerns. Nothing inspires me to open my wallet like a belligerent, condescending forum moderator.
First rule of CRM: Do NOT insult, or otherwise talk down to, your paying customers.
RCK
The funny thing is that they dont even need to add much to make the pvp'ers happy...
But if we where to stumble upon a large Hirogen Holo-facility for spacebattle in the delta quadrant...... that would be fun... and also fitting the storyline now that there is peace.. *cringe*
And it's funny how that elephant continued to grow and grow in the thread as it went along.
Seriously, as funny as it was the read the back and forth between folks with askray - it was all that much more funny to me, personally, to read how many folks spoke as if the PvP community was a single entity - as if the easy fixes they envision would be the acceptable fixes/additions that everybody else does.
You can grab 10 random PvP folks.
You can grab 1000 random PvE folks.
You're likely to get more different answers on what is needed for PvP from the 10 PvP folks than what is needed for PvE from the 1000 PvE folks.
Pick a random console. Bam, you've got at least three points of view on it. Add a second console, bam - at least three more...where folks that might have been arguing on the first agree on the second. Add a third...etc, etc, etc.
It is an extremely divided community.
Some folks want new maps. Some folks /facepalm that, because the maps are just backgrounds that don't matter to them. Some folks want more scenario PvP. Some folks /facepalm that because they just want more arena pew pew.
The closest one could probably come to getting the PvP community in agreement is that Cryptic be trolling them...eh? It's hard not to look at so many things that are added to the game, look at the PvE content - look at PvP - and not come away that stuff was added to make the lives of PvP players more Hell...eh?
But even there, there are folks that absolutely love all the stuff that's being added...but even they probably take some enjoyment from the complaints from others and accept that Cryptic be trolling the PvP folks, no?
Even before S6, folks knew which way this game was headed...
No, the funny part is that they're openly disparaging one of their more desirable demographics. Sure, we whine a lot - about consoles, about traits, about power creep. But we also BUY STUFF. And very often, it's EXPENSIVE stuff. Lockbox keys, multi-ship c-store packs, zen/dil conversion for crafting/r&d.
To cite a well worn television example, WE are the coveted "18-29" demographic that advertisers want to reach. Seriously, who else would spend 1500-2500 zen on a throwaway ship just to get a single "OP" console? I'm actually considering getting the Vandal just to add Plasmonic Leech to my Dyson build.
We are the gearheads. We are the min/maxers. We are the ones who push the meta to the edge. And we're typically willing to pay handsomely for even the tiniest perceived edge.
Contrast this against PvE players, most of who (I'm guessing) are F2P-only. After all, unless you're trying to join the 10/20/30K DPS club, there is *nothing* in the game's PvE content that requires anything more than a modest grind.
In other words, I can help get the optional in ISE/KSE/CSE using nothing but the gear and ships I acquired while levelling. But take that same ship into Ker'rat or an Arena match and I'm cannon fodder.
Note: The only real exception to the PvE-is-for-F2P rule is the RPers (e.g. the ones who spend cash on stuff like character outfits and bikini's for Risa). But that's a discussion for another thread.
Bottom Line: I didn't just plunk down my first cash in STO so I could beat ISE faster. I did it to allow me to be competitive in a PvP context. If I were simply playing PvE only (something I did for my first 18 months in STO) I'd never have coughed up the dough. But for PvP, if you want to "play, you've got to pay." And given my lust for killing players on both sides of the faction isle, it's a cost I'm more than willing to bear.
RCK
You're also going to be looking at a range of numbers because of how various buffs can be applied...which gets back to the human factor.
Could take a team of five of me and five of you, same builds - exact builds...you're going to win 15-0 each and every time.
It's like the gear score discussion that's been going on for the L60 Elites.
And getting back to the inability to make changes once one joins a queue - you're going to have the folks that do make changes, that attempt to adapt to what is going on up in arms by denying them the ability to do that. It's come up in the console switching debates...
Overall PvP balance is an illusion.
You win some, you lose some - either way, it's an ongoing challenge to keep trying to get better - to adjust to or to create the next meta.
Folks have been arguing PvP balance in STO since beta, eh?
But as far as matchmaking based on gearing - it's just so dynamic and even full of RNG, that meh...well, it's one of the reasons some folks have floated the idea of two tiers - locked and unlocked. Basically the locked would be template builds - fused builds...Cryptic prefabs. It would be the closest thing to making the PvP akin to a FPS type game...where each person that selected a type would have the same type as another. There would be no gear gaps there. And then the unlocked play, where anything goes or folks would fight based on prearranged rules.
I guess that would be an area where folks might agree - that Cryptic is increasing the gap. They keep doing things on one hand to try to narrow that gap while on the other hand adding more things to widen that gap. The change to Rep Passives...an attempt to narrow the gap. R&D Traits - Starship Mastery - Captain Specialization - Starship Traits...widening the gap. It's kind of funny if you step back from it for a moment, have a few drinks, and then look again. Up close, it's just such major /facepalm...meh.
But even there, there are the folks that will say why shouldn't they have those advantages from having put the time in?
Everything is going to be a disagreement...
Though, folks that don't see how the KDF are getting screwed with the Starship Trait thing...they're just (insert violation of forum TOS). I finally gave up...meh.
Peek-a-boo!
Teehee!
Peek-a-boo!
Teehee!
Peek-a-boo!
Teehee!
So they design all this random peek-a-boo TRIBBLE so that their playerbase goes teehee.
Fly around in circles pressing the spacebar waiting for something interesting to happen...Cryptic Design 101.
I keep thinking back to that build askray asked for help with...and I keep hoping that it was just a sacrificial post, to get some attention focused on how bad that was to stop some of the other discussions that were taking place. But then there was that Intel livestream with Smirk and the builds he ran...and...dayum, wtf?
And lol, this is where I end up getting accused of being an elitist - yeah, fail ol' me gets accused of being an elitist. They don't get just how bad at this game I am compared to the folks that are good at it...they just can't fathom just how pathetic at the game they are. I guess in their eyes, that makes me an elitist - doesn't matter how much I can demonstrate how bad I am at the game, doesn't matter how many folks I could get to come in and tell how bad I am at the game...because I'm not as pathetic as them and I wish they'd put the least bit of effort into not sucking as much as they do, I'm an elitist.
This game is what it is...and while folks may have been taking offense at what askray was saying as an insult to the PvPers...lol...think about what he said and what that means for the average player out there, eh? I remember I had a cow over one podcast where Geko basically made the players out to be idiots...that was before Brandon left, and I went off on Geko in one thread. That was back when I spent most of my time in the PvP forums or Build forums and avoided the rest of the forums like the plague. You know though...you go out there, spend more time in the other sections - read through more of the threads...and maybe Geko shouldn't have said it about them, but lol - it's painfully true.
STO is not a MMO for gamers...
And yeah, my blood sugar is high - so I'm off on a pissy rant, that I know it's high removes any excuse of coming back later to apologize. I'm running with it...I'm burnt out.
I'm tired of having better hopes for the game. I'm tired of trying to think better of the average player in the game. I'm just damn tired of so damn much.
Damian did a thread about acceptance...and with both STO and its playerbase, acceptance is a constant grind - you have to keep accepting more and more...it whittles you down.
This game is obviously designed for a certain audience...why the Hell any of us are still here is beyond me.
Yeah... so very much this... I get so frustrated I want to throw The Original Series out the window and just curse the mother-flanking ship out of those dumb-afts.
Cryptic has proven time and again that pvp is an after thought to them ive gave up expecting anything from them- yes currently a niche only we the pvp folk can get it up and running and i see no reason why we cant- people are complaining abt op TRIBBLE the grind yada yada yada- vpvp is here and avoids all that-use it then simple easy solution
I agree maps would be nice but they arent the deal breaker for me- its more the lack of balancing items before release, the proven op/brokeness of certian things yes fluidic console im pointing at you! But yes even at short term that is better than no term
It was just released on the 18th, no? Are there enough L60 folks even to try to run them? I haven't seen any feedback on them in any of the threads - just folks speculating and some folks grumbling about the Elite slider on their way to 60. All sorts of Forum PvP going on in the threads...
elite is basically difficulty buffed via mob hp, stringent time constraints and if anyone dies its over. same ai.
60 doesnt take much time at all on tribble, its just having 5 people on tribble at 60 to do it enough to beat it at the moment. Also appropriate to its name, borg disconnected likes to randomly disconnect people at certain moments during the mission, sometimes one, sometimes three. think of it as an added challenge.