Me, the other core members of my fleet. The OP. What I fine instresting is that the bulk of the oppositin are carreer officers and of those many been one only a year or less. I do wonder why that is.
Me and other have given calm and logical reasons to increase the cap. THe only thing we gwet back is the excuse of the exchange which is already debunked since what you fear from that already happens in game. and even then one of my side suggested a trail period which you also blast down. The only thing i have seen other then that is personal attacks against my side. Maybe you should really rethink your stance on this. We are not asking fior anything unreasonablle and lifers will still have a huge advantage over us F2Pers. Some of you don't get to cap, fine that's your choice and the cap raise won't affect you. But this raise would be very useful for me and many others.
No, it's not. It's a characteristic of reality. Many hands make light work. 50 is ten times bigger than 5. Fifty people will build something faster than five people.
There is already a cap on the maximum amount of effort any number of people can put into it, as well as Provisions and Fleet Credits which make it harder for a member of a large fleet to accrue the needed commodities to actually use the system.
The math has been done repeatedly - the system is actually biased against members of large fleets, but reality is biased against tiny fleets.
In any case, since I've managed to drag your vested interest into light, I've no further interest in this subject. As someone working in the financial industry, with a degree in economics and other certifications, I was only irked to post because of the ignorant (and ultimately disingenuous) claim that raising the cap will help casual players.
You and your five buddies trying to make your own fleet are clearly not casual players. I refuse to believe any casual player is goofy enough to be in a fleet with a half-dozen active players and actually try to max it out. The average Fleet size, which the Fleet system was oriented and balanced towards, is considerably larger than that.
(We did the math, way back when, on determining what size Fleet the system was oriented towards. I don't remember the exact number, but it was double digits. Something like 30-40 active players, based on the costs of the projects and the division of rewards.)
Anyone who farms dilithium to buy Zen has a vested interest in not having the cap raised, as it would devalue their efforts.
actually yes they do for then they don't have to stop so many times when they reach the cap.
You haven't made your opposition clear besides a pathetic exchange excuse. I am willing to grind a bit longer to get to my goals with dil. That is still time and effort i am putting in. YOU on the other hand are now a lifer. you get a stipend of Zen and a slightly easier time with dil than me. You are only a month ahead of me. How long have you been a lifer? i know 2 lifers who have been here since beta. They earn there lifer, did you? Many have become lifers to get all the goodies now and you call me greedy?
Yes I have 3 of the 5 CURRENT reps done and had some of the sets already thanks to my time here before they were changedbut imagine someone just coming into the rep system. Now imagine if they wanted a certian set. First they have to spend time leveling up the rep then when they got to the level they have to spend roughly 90k in dil to get it. and with only 8k able to refined that will take a while, oh let's no forget any projects with the fleet projects and to get a fleet version of the ship. oh then say he or she wants a certain ship in the Zen store. they could buy it with cash to zen but say they can't afford that cost, they would have to grind dil. Among this games biggest issues is the huge grind it has become and now imagine how long it would take this person to get a ship gear up to do really well in PVE content or even PVP. I think you need to realize what's it like not to be a lifer. Thankfully no all lifers are like you.
I'm not lying and to even say that shows how low your arguement is. You have no logical reason to oppose the cap raise so you are now down to insults.
Go back and reread your own posts. Some appear to be blatant lies as you contradict your own "facts" in later posts. It's not name calling when it's the truth. I, as have others, have given many logical reasons to not raise the DIL cap, you have not given any for it. Stop trying to act like the victim, your own words can be used against you. You should've stayed w/1 "fact" but you decided to change your "facts" when there was evidence against you. You keep calling people "low" for seeing you for what you are, a deceitful person.
THe only thing we gwet back is the excuse of the exchange which is already debunked since what you fear from that already happens in game.
It has not in any way been debunked, because you haven't successfully argued against basic microeconomic theory. What is wrong with your education system, how do you not know about Supply and Demand?
Heck, have you even heard of the scientific method? Do you have any understanding at all of how science works?
The theory "A will cause B" is not debunked if B happens without A.
"An open flame will ignite the candlewick" is not debunked if the candlewick is ignited by a spark.
I am willing to grind a bit longer to get to my goals with dil. That is still time and effort i am putting in. YOU on the holder hand are now a lifer. you get a stipend of Zen and a slightly easier time with dil than me.
I would benefit from the cap being raised far more than you, since I have a stipend of Zen and will be able to buy more refined Dilithium with an increased exchange rate.
However, I am also not like a teenager unable to consider long term consequences, and oppose increasing the cap against my own interests for the sake of the game's economy and health.
What gets me is that you've obviously never touched Neverwinter, another of Cryptic's MMOs, where we can see that what I keep trying to teach you has actually happened. The Astral Diamond refinement cap is so high that the vast majority of players never hit it, and there is a massive gap between the rich and the poor. AD has depreciated to the point that a casual player will never be able to actually buy anything.
State you logical reasons right now, no more of your rants, just facts.
very well. we have several things that now require dilithium to get someone really competive. and most of those items require more then 8k in Dilithium. I think the cheapest rep gear requires 9k in dilithium. the average console is about 30k in dilithium. and that's in just rep.
Fleet items are technically cheaper but then you have to add in the cost of leveling up your base to get the items so it might easily cost more than the rep items.
Then there's the crafting stuff. the higher tier stuff requires dil for crafting.
With DR we now have a ship and item upgrade system which will require likely both dil and zen to do.
Then there can be times where you have had fun with your friends and earn alot of unrefined dil, or a lifer who took a break and got alot of unrefined dil. more then you can ever refine daily.
In light of all this content requiring dil to some extent the demand for it rises.
The current cap has been there since before I joined and there was little content that it would be used for. The old Omega store, the average dil stores. the old crafting system,and to convert to zen.
It has not in any way been debunked, because you haven't successfully argued against basic microeconomic theory. What is wrong with your education system, how do you not know about Supply and Demand?
Heck, have you even heard of the scientific method? Do you have any understanding at all of how science works?
The theory "A will cause B" is not debunked if B happens without A.
"An open flame will ignite the candlewick" is not debunked if the candlewick is ignited by a spark.
Your inability to understand basic high school level economics does not make it "pathetic" or "debunked".
I would benefit from the cap being raised far more than you, since I have a stipend of Zen and will be able to buy more refined Dilithium with an increased exchange rate.
However, I am also not like a teenager unable to consider long term consequences, and oppose increasing the cap against my own interests for the sake of the game's economy and health.
What gets me is that you've obviously never touched Neverwinter, another of Cryptic's MMOs, where we can see that what I keep trying to teach you has actually happened. The Astral Diamond refinement cap is so high that the vast majority of players never hit it, and there is a massive gap between the rich and the poor. AD has depreciated to the point that a casual player will never be able to actually buy anything.
I am considering long term. It;s you who is not. THe current trend for this game is more and more rep grinds. More and more content requiring dil. while it maybe easier for someone already maxed out on reps, starbase fully tiered iamgine someone just getting into the rep area of the game. any do it with a limit of 8k of dil.
we do not want an eliminatatio of cap just an increase. the average number is 15k. yes lifers will still have an advantage but that's okay. you paid for it. the cap raise beneifets everyone.
So for you it's normal to miss respect every one and act like that because you see many people do it ??
It been said again and against the same thing : they want free stuff and never pay, that the only thing it was say. nobodies come with argument against that but because is none, if you want support the game so you have no problem if the limit is change, you are gold or lLTS same, it change nothing in the core game but it will make longer to have free zen.
But that you will never give me argument against that.
except they do pay otherwise the system wouldn't work. so you've choosen to ignore the facts and expect to be treated like adult? hate to tell you but thats not how thats works. repeating things you want to be true doesn't make it so. otherwise we wouldn't be here.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
your biggest problem is not with players who oppose the cap increase but with cryptic who are also opposed to a cap increase, they are fully aware of the end result of granting an increase > less people spending cash to buy refined dilithium and the last thing they want to have is less money coming in to the game.
it would not matter if every player was screaming out for the increase and nobody opposed it, cryptic will not give it because they are fully aware of how much money is coming in just to buy dilithium and they are well aware that a rise in the cap would lesson that amount considerably.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
except they do pay otherwise the system wouldn't work. so you've choosen to ignore the facts and expect to be treated like adult? hate to tell you but thats not how thats works. repeating things you want to be true doesn't make it so. otherwise we wouldn't be here.
how they pay ? give me some fact please, i try to talk about it but nobodies give any fact just attack.
and i'm sorry but until now i never had any clear logical explanation or fact against what i say, just stuff like "you are wrong", "that stupid " ... but no argument, no talk.
The system work because some player pay for the other that it.
how they pay ? give me some fact please, i try to talk about it but nobodies give any fact just attack.
The system work because some player pay for the other that it.
if I understand your question correctly - they pay in time, simple as that.
same as when you go to work, your employer gives you the job because he hasn't got time to do it himself and he pays for your time.
same with dilithium, player who wants lots of dilithium quick and can pay money buys dilithium from player who has had the time to earn it on his behalf and the player who is selling it is paid for his time with zen.
the mere fact that the player that is selling his dilithium has had fun doing it is neither here or there.
many people who work and are paid enjoy their job and have fun doing it, does that mean they deserve paying any less.
just look at football players, they are paid very well just for playing a game they enjoy.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Well seeing as the prices in dilithium for items is figured as X days of cap = price, then we double the cap all the prices double and we end up exactly where we started. Yay for inflation!
I doubt there would be inflation at all caused by an increased daily cap. Note that dilithium is a pure time currency. If somebody plays 5 hours a week and earns say 40'000 dilithium he still only plays 5 hours a week earning the same amount of dilithium after the daily cap has been increased.
What causes the inflation on the dilithium exchange is people saving up large amounts of refined dilithium and suddendly puting most of it on the exchange. This usually happens when something new to spend Zen on comes out. Another factor is the actual number of active players as well as the average time spent on grinding per player. And finally inflation reflects how easy it is for a player to earn large amounts of dilithium (events).
The cap is not a measurement of how much you can buy, but how much you play. Upping the cap would hurt people that play less, while not helping those that play more, because cryptic would just rescale costs for the same number of days played to get a particular item.
Wrong. The AMOUNT OF UNREFINED DILITHIUM you earn per day is an indicator on how much you play, not the cap. People who play less and earn less than the daily cap per day would still be able to refine all of it, while regular players who spend more time would be able to refine more dilithium on the SAME character. Meaning that if somebody spends 2 hours a day grinding dilithium on 4 chars he or she would now spend 2 hours grinding dilithium on 2 chars if the daily cap was doubled.
I advocate in favor of a total elimination of the daily dilithium refinement cap. There might be an initial spike in exchange prices but in the end it would not make any difference at all. Due to multiple char grinding and easy transferability of dilithium from one char to an alt veterans are already refining everything they earn per day.
if I understand your question correctly - they pay in time, simple as that.
same as when you go to work, your employer gives you the job because he hasn't got time to do it himself and he pays for your time.
same with dilithium, player who wants lots of dilithium quick and can pay money buys dilithium from player who has had the time to earn it on his behalf and the payer who is selling it is paid for his time with zen.
I don't understand, how a player who never spend money in the game make cryptic earn money buy playing ?
Because when your boss give you work (even if it is work) what you do will make him earn money.
For the dilithium exchange I'm agree but what the problem if you find a way where the change rate is increase by making the subscription and the act of buy zen more interesting ? because player who have time for that will still can do the same no ?
Me, the other core members of my fleet. The OP. What I fine interesting is that the bulk of the opposition are career officers and of those many been one only a year or less. I do wonder why that is.
Me and other have given calm and logical reasons to increase the cap. The only thing we gwet back is the excuse of the exchange which is already debunked since what you fear from that already happens in game. and even then one of my side suggested a trail period which you also blast down. The only thing i have seen other then that is personal attacks against my side. Maybe you should really rethink your stance on this. We are not asking for anything unreasonable and lifers will still have a huge advantage over us F2Pers. Some of you don't get to cap, fine that's your choice and the cap raise won't affect you. But this raise would be very useful for me and many others.
Ok. I don't know how many people the core members of your fleet so I'll give a random number. 50
So 50+you+OP. So 52 players.
52 players want to change a major part of the game for them.
Lets try something fun. Lets think about what else 52 people may think should be changed in the game for them.
52 players think t5-u is dumb and the upgrade system should not be ingame.
52 players think random drops are better then the rep system and now you have pug space undine queued events until the RNG gods drop a part and better yet you have each one until each countless times until the loot drops. People hate the rng of lockboxes but thanks to 52 people rng is now part of STO's "endgame"
52 people think STO's next xpac should all about pvp, so devs pull some BS out of their backside and countless players' neck are broken from the whiplash of STO's main storyline
I could go but you get my point I hope.
I won't bring up the exchange, PWE/Cryptic's greed, or lifetimers but please think about this.
What is your most beloved part of STO (and if you say nothing then why are you still playing?)? Now think how you would feel if 52 players said it should change and they give reasons you don't like, and you give a counter to everything they say. How would you feel if the devs did it. Ruin/changed your most beloved part of the game? It would suck right?
Last bit, I'm not a lifetimer nor have I ever been a gold player and I have been playing around the time the oddy came out so a few years. I'm against a dil raise.
I don't understand, how a player who never spend money in the game make cryptic earn money buy playing ?
Because when your boss give you work (even if it is work) what you do will make him earn money.
For the dilithium exchange I'm agree but what the problem if you find a way where the change rate is increase by making the subscription and the act of buy zen more interesting ? because player who have time for that will still can do the same no ?
you lost me a bit there but to answer this part of your question "I don't understand, how a player who never spend money in the game make cryptic earn money buy playing ? "
because the buyer of the dilithium has paid money to cryptic with the express purpose of buying dilithium, if the player who has never spent any money was not selling his dilithium that he got by playing the player who is buying it would not have spent the money to buy it.
therefore the player who has never spent money in the game is able to make cryptic earn money buy playing.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
you lost me a bit there but to answer this part of your question "I don't understand, how a player who never spend money in the game make cryptic earn money buy playing ? "
because the buyer of the dilithium has paid money to cryptic with the express purpose of buying dilithium, if the player who has never spent any money was not selling his dilithium that he got by playing the player who is buying it would not have spent the money to buy it.
therefore the player who has never spent money in the game is able to make cryptic earn money buy playing.
Sorry if i lost you, English is not my first language. But you make my point this system work only because some player pay for other.
And i'm tired play more and more, for other player because of my play time is low. And that why i was talking in other post about raise (or broke) the dilithium limit for subscriver, in this way everybody will find what they want.
Sorry if i lost you, English is not my first language. But you make my point this system work only because some player pay for other.
And i'm tired play more and more, for other player because of my play time is low. And that why i was talking in other post about raise (or broke) the dilithium limit for subscriver, in this way everybody will find what they want.
yet another player whos play time is low yet seems to have more dilithium then he can refine, I must be playing wrong as I play a lot I rarely have more dilithium then I can refine except when there is an event with a big dilithium payout.
the thing is I seem to be enjoying the game as it is and you do not, so maybe im not playing so wrong after all.
maybe you are?
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Listen up! im sorry i made this thread as it has clearly driven some people to insanity. All i wanted to do was ask a simple question and i was thinking of how it could benifit my type of players CLEARLY i have upset the players who mindlessly grind dilithium all day and play purley for the market. Now im not trying to be bias or anything like that and i really really didnt intend this thread to be full of such hate. This was clearly my mistake in asking a question therefore im gonna hold back on making anymore posts. i apologise to anyone who has gotten yelled at or who has ben made feel uncomfortable.
P.S. i said i didnt want to be really bias but i need to make this point clear.
I only wanted to understand why it couldnt be raised
and i was thinking openly minded about the pro's this could achieve
also if you are so blinded by the exchange and how much it could slightly effect your wealth then i also suggest u find another game preferably Stock Market Simulator.
once again i apologise for anyone who got made uncomfortable in this post i did not intend for this.:(
Listen up! im sorry i made this thread as it has clearly driven some people to insanity. All i wanted to do was ask a simple question and i was thinking of how it could benifit my type of players CLEARLY i have upset the players who mindlessly grind dilithium all day and play purley for the market. Now im not trying to be bias or anything like that and i really really didnt intend this thread to be full of such hate. This was clearly my mistake in asking a question therefore im gonna hold back on making anymore posts. i apologise to anyone who has gotten yelled at or who has ben made feel uncomfortable.
P.S. i said i didnt want to be really bias but i need to make this point clear.
I only wanted to understand why it couldnt be raised
and i was thinking openly minded about the pro's this could achieve
also if you are so blinded by the exchange and how much it could slightly effect your wealth then i also suggest u find another game preferably Stock Market Simulator.
once again i apologise for anyone who got made uncomfortable in this post i did not intend for this.:(
Don't apologize. You could make a thread about cute kittens and there still would be people ranting about it. You are not responsible for people who don't know how to behave.
yet another player whos play time is low yet seems to have more dilithium then he can refine, I must be playing wrong as I play a lot I rarely have more dilithium then I can refine except when there is an event with a big dilithium payout.
the thing is I seem to be enjoying the game as it is and you do not, so maybe im not playing so wrong after all.
maybe you are?
Hum so because you enjoy the way you play everyone should play in the same way ?
What i say is yes my play time is low but at least with that when i can play i'm not ennoy or limit by the dilithium limit and as a subscriber i can have what my game time give me and not what my credit car give me in plus of my subscription
Every single big patch there are more and more dilithium sinks being implemented. But dilithium gain has remained the same.
If you introduce new and expensive mechanics that involve the use of dilithium, and you don't increase the amount of dilithium you can gain, you create a toxic imbalance. People are more and more starting to value dilithium and extremely expensive commodity. To the point where people, for example, no longer dump dilithium into fleet projects, because they'll need it a lot more now and in the future (DR).
In short: Dilithium sinks are increasing where dilithium sources are now.
Listen up! im sorry i made this thread as it has clearly driven some people to insanity. All i wanted to do was ask a simple question and i was thinking of how it could benifit my type of players CLEARLY i have upset the players who mindlessly grind dilithium all day and play purley for the market. Now im not trying to be bias or anything like that and i really really didnt intend this thread to be full of such hate. This was clearly my mistake in asking a question therefore im gonna hold back on making anymore posts. i apologise to anyone who has gotten yelled at or who has ben made feel uncomfortable.
P.S. i said i didnt want to be really bias but i need to make this point clear.
I only wanted to understand why it couldnt be raised
and i was thinking openly minded about the pro's this could achieve
also if you are so blinded by the exchange and how much it could slightly effect your wealth then i also suggest u find another game preferably Stock Market Simulator.
once again i apologise for anyone who got made uncomfortable in this post i did not intend for this.:(
No ranting is required for threads like this. But raising the Dilithium cap, injecting more Dilithium into the economy, causes inflation, and thus devaluation. So it simply doesn't have the positive effect you think it will have, is all.
indeed and there is so much fun stuff to do in the game that doesn't even reward dil maybe just the odd accolade, but all people do is worry about grinding dil for that next carrot they are chasing and then complain that they never have any fun any more, try stopping and smelling the roses for once, stop worrying about dil and just do some stuff that looks interesting.
I could not even tell you how much dil I got today in rewards, I haven't looked and am not even bothered if I didn't get any, all I do know is I had some fun playing the game with my fleet mates and got a few accolades I have been hoping to win, im well happy.
I even spent some time just watching other players chasing epohh, it was very relaxing.
There is also plenty of fun stuff that does reward dil, however what one person finds fun another could find a grind.
When I started I was like you very rarely reaching my cap. Then I read a post by one of the people taking part here about the different ways to earn dil, and this was a long time ago and more have been added since then, what that person doesn't know about it basically isn't worth knowing. Since then I can hit my cap and then some.
I started playing them, the ones I didn't enjoy I didn't play again and the ones I did enjoy I continued to do. Even with the cut down list I could make my cap. You need to find what you enjoy and see if there are ways to get dil at the same time.
With the additions to the game since all that time ago there are even more ways. For example I had a lot of fun playing the Voth battle zone that I didn't even notice I was earning dil while doing it.
Therefore to say all people worry about is grinding is a bit of an exaggeration as I doubt that many people worry about it at all.
Listen up! im sorry i made this thread as it has clearly driven some people to insanity.
Well, it's not your fault first off that some people are going insane. You are also not the first to ask for dil cap increase and most defiantly won't be the last.
I actually hope dil cap increase requests go to the F.C.T. While I understand it's not exactly a 'will never happen' scenario, it's been talked about almost to death, and things get sour real quick.
At the end of the day, it's up to Cryptic what they want to do. Increase, not increase, heck perhaps even decrease, who knows, but from my understanding, they have been monitoring dil usage. They have actual numbers to work with, they know their goals, I really don't feel we have any influence what-so-ever, regardless of our own reasoning.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Every single big patch there are more and more dilithium sinks being implemented. But dilithium gain has remained the same.
If you introduce new and expensive mechanics that involve the use of dilithium, and you don't increase the amount of dilithium you can gain, you create a toxic imbalance. People are more and more starting to value dilithium and extremely expensive commodity. To the point where people, for example, no longer dump dilithium into fleet projects, because they'll need it a lot more now and in the future (DR).
In short: Dilithium sinks are increasing where dilithium sources are now.
Choices have consequences. You need to choose what means more to you and spend your dil on that and as such you don't get to spend it elsewhere. Either that or you have to save up slowly for it and have a bit of patience until you get there.
The cap doesn't need raising people just need to work together on the big projects, and save up for their own stuff.
I have seen countless threads over time about how hard it is to get dil for fleet projects yet if everyone in the fleet just gave a small amount of their dill refinement each day then the projects would get filled. Yes it would take longer in smaller fleets, but fleets are meant to be a long term project for all members not a get it done quickly thing.
The same applies to things individually you do not need that zen ship, those rep weapons/gear or that fleet item to play the game they are bonuses. Therefore build them up over time and you will still get there. For example I raised my Omega rep mainly through Defari zone and the occasional red alert all the way to teir 5 and got my ship items that way. Until then I was happily pottering along in the freebee sets from missions.
Listen up! im sorry i made this thread as it has clearly driven some people to insanity. All i wanted to do was ask a simple question and i was thinking of how it could benifit my type of players CLEARLY i have upset the players who mindlessly grind dilithium all day and play purley for the market. Now im not trying to be bias or anything like that and i really really didnt intend this thread to be full of such hate. This was clearly my mistake in asking a question therefore im gonna hold back on making anymore posts. i apologise to anyone who has gotten yelled at or who has ben made feel uncomfortable.
P.S. i said i didnt want to be really bias but i need to make this point clear.
I only wanted to understand why it couldnt be raised
and i was thinking openly minded about the pro's this could achieve
also if you are so blinded by the exchange and how much it could slightly effect your wealth then i also suggest u find another game preferably Stock Market Simulator.
You do realise that acting like you are sorry while making no less than two snide comments at those disagreeing you with is a pretty feeble gesture, right?
Hum so because you enjoy the way you play everyone should play in the same way ?
What i say is yes my play time is low but at least with that when i can play i'm not ennoy or limit by the dilithium limit and as a subscriber i can have what my game time give me and not what my credit car give me in plus of my subscription
You can enjoy playing the game any way you like as long as it's within the rules. And the rule is the Dil cap is 8,000.
It's the rule in many nations that woman may be stoned to death. Doesn't make it a good rule.
Telling someone their arguments are invalid "because the rule is the rule" is pretty far out there.
As players we chalange this rule because it's boring, lazy design and it becomes an issue because there is far more dilithium required stuff now than ever before.
If you introduce mechanics (R&D now) that require a lot of dilithium, then increase the dil daily cap. The demand is ever increasing yet the supply stays the same. You really don't see an issue with that?
It's the rule in many nations that woman may be stoned to death. Doesn't make it a good rule.
Telling someone their arguments are invalid "because the rule is the rule" is pretty far out there.
As players we chalange this rule because it's boring, lazy design and it becomes an issue because there is far more dilithium required stuff now than ever before.
If you introduce mechanics (R&D now) that require a lot of dilithium, then increase the dil daily cap. The demand is ever increasing yet the supply stays the same. You really don't see an issue with that?
Do you not, realistically given this game is F2P and Cryptics business model off of it, that they'll just increase all the prices on Dil sinks if they increase the cap? So you're right back where you started.
They will not aid you in refining loads more dil per day and therefore remove one of the big reasons people contribute money to the game and their wages. They know this, it keeps the game running and keeps all of us with a game. This is the price of a F2P game and keeping STO running so successfully.
There is also plenty of fun stuff that does reward dil, however what one person finds fun another could find a grind.
When I started I was like you very rarely reaching my cap. Then I read a post by one of the people taking part here about the different ways to earn dil, and this was a long time ago and more have been added since then, what that person doesn't know about it basically isn't worth knowing. Since then I can hit my cap and then some.
I started playing them, the ones I didn't enjoy I didn't play again and the ones I did enjoy I continued to do. Even with the cut down list I could make my cap. You need to find what you enjoy and see if there are ways to get dil at the same time.
With the additions to the game since all that time ago there are even more ways. For example I had a lot of fun playing the Voth battle zone that I didn't even notice I was earning dil while doing it.
Therefore to say all people worry about is grinding is a bit of an exaggeration as I doubt that many people worry about it at all.
so when was the last time you took a week out and just replayed some missions, it surprising what you missed first time round in your rush to complete the mission and level up.
when was the last time you had a look to see if there were any accolades you could pick up that you haven't got yet, ive spent the last month touring the 14 clusters trying to get all the chain missions and accolades there.
when was the last time you played some stuff that just pays out fleet marks for a couple of evenings.
sure I often only get a couple of thousand dil each day mostly from doff missions but I don't worry about such things and never have.
and as I said in another post I still get all the gear I need, am one of the top donators in my large fleet leader board and still have saved enough dil since the start of this year to buy loads of stuff on the c-store including the dyson maga pack for 10k zen and have over 16k zen saved up for some DR T6 ships mostly from converting dil with a little bit of stipend thrown in, and the year aint over yet.
sure some of the stuff that pays high amounts of dil can be fun too and I play them sometimes but I don't just do that stuff and nothing else, if I earn lots of dil one day fine and if I don't that's fine also, all I care is if I have had an enjoyable evening and let my finances worry about themselves.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
Me, the other core members of my fleet. The OP. What I fine instresting is that the bulk of the oppositin are carreer officers and of those many been one only a year or less. I do wonder why that is.
Me and other have given calm and logical reasons to increase the cap. THe only thing we gwet back is the excuse of the exchange which is already debunked since what you fear from that already happens in game. and even then one of my side suggested a trail period which you also blast down. The only thing i have seen other then that is personal attacks against my side. Maybe you should really rethink your stance on this. We are not asking fior anything unreasonablle and lifers will still have a huge advantage over us F2Pers. Some of you don't get to cap, fine that's your choice and the cap raise won't affect you. But this raise would be very useful for me and many others.
You haven't made your opposition clear besides a pathetic exchange excuse. I am willing to grind a bit longer to get to my goals with dil. That is still time and effort i am putting in. YOU on the other hand are now a lifer. you get a stipend of Zen and a slightly easier time with dil than me. You are only a month ahead of me. How long have you been a lifer? i know 2 lifers who have been here since beta. They earn there lifer, did you? Many have become lifers to get all the goodies now and you call me greedy?
Yes I have 3 of the 5 CURRENT reps done and had some of the sets already thanks to my time here before they were changedbut imagine someone just coming into the rep system. Now imagine if they wanted a certian set. First they have to spend time leveling up the rep then when they got to the level they have to spend roughly 90k in dil to get it. and with only 8k able to refined that will take a while, oh let's no forget any projects with the fleet projects and to get a fleet version of the ship. oh then say he or she wants a certain ship in the Zen store. they could buy it with cash to zen but say they can't afford that cost, they would have to grind dil. Among this games biggest issues is the huge grind it has become and now imagine how long it would take this person to get a ship gear up to do really well in PVE content or even PVP. I think you need to realize what's it like not to be a lifer. Thankfully no all lifers are like you.
Go back and reread your own posts. Some appear to be blatant lies as you contradict your own "facts" in later posts. It's not name calling when it's the truth. I, as have others, have given many logical reasons to not raise the DIL cap, you have not given any for it. Stop trying to act like the victim, your own words can be used against you. You should've stayed w/1 "fact" but you decided to change your "facts" when there was evidence against you. You keep calling people "low" for seeing you for what you are, a deceitful person.
It has not in any way been debunked, because you haven't successfully argued against basic microeconomic theory. What is wrong with your education system, how do you not know about Supply and Demand?
Heck, have you even heard of the scientific method? Do you have any understanding at all of how science works?
The theory "A will cause B" is not debunked if B happens without A.
"An open flame will ignite the candlewick" is not debunked if the candlewick is ignited by a spark.
Your inability to understand basic high school level economics does not make it "pathetic" or "debunked".
I would benefit from the cap being raised far more than you, since I have a stipend of Zen and will be able to buy more refined Dilithium with an increased exchange rate.
However, I am also not like a teenager unable to consider long term consequences, and oppose increasing the cap against my own interests for the sake of the game's economy and health.
What gets me is that you've obviously never touched Neverwinter, another of Cryptic's MMOs, where we can see that what I keep trying to teach you has actually happened. The Astral Diamond refinement cap is so high that the vast majority of players never hit it, and there is a massive gap between the rich and the poor. AD has depreciated to the point that a casual player will never be able to actually buy anything.
State you logical reasons right now, no more of your rants, just facts.
very well. we have several things that now require dilithium to get someone really competive. and most of those items require more then 8k in Dilithium. I think the cheapest rep gear requires 9k in dilithium. the average console is about 30k in dilithium. and that's in just rep.
Fleet items are technically cheaper but then you have to add in the cost of leveling up your base to get the items so it might easily cost more than the rep items.
Then there's the crafting stuff. the higher tier stuff requires dil for crafting.
With DR we now have a ship and item upgrade system which will require likely both dil and zen to do.
Then there can be times where you have had fun with your friends and earn alot of unrefined dil, or a lifer who took a break and got alot of unrefined dil. more then you can ever refine daily.
In light of all this content requiring dil to some extent the demand for it rises.
The current cap has been there since before I joined and there was little content that it would be used for. The old Omega store, the average dil stores. the old crafting system,and to convert to zen.
I am considering long term. It;s you who is not. THe current trend for this game is more and more rep grinds. More and more content requiring dil. while it maybe easier for someone already maxed out on reps, starbase fully tiered iamgine someone just getting into the rep area of the game. any do it with a limit of 8k of dil.
we do not want an eliminatatio of cap just an increase. the average number is 15k. yes lifers will still have an advantage but that's okay. you paid for it. the cap raise beneifets everyone.
except they do pay otherwise the system wouldn't work. so you've choosen to ignore the facts and expect to be treated like adult? hate to tell you but thats not how thats works. repeating things you want to be true doesn't make it so. otherwise we wouldn't be here.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
it would not matter if every player was screaming out for the increase and nobody opposed it, cryptic will not give it because they are fully aware of how much money is coming in just to buy dilithium and they are well aware that a rise in the cap would lesson that amount considerably.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
how they pay ? give me some fact please, i try to talk about it but nobodies give any fact just attack.
and i'm sorry but until now i never had any clear logical explanation or fact against what i say, just stuff like "you are wrong", "that stupid " ... but no argument, no talk.
The system work because some player pay for the other that it.
if I understand your question correctly - they pay in time, simple as that.
same as when you go to work, your employer gives you the job because he hasn't got time to do it himself and he pays for your time.
same with dilithium, player who wants lots of dilithium quick and can pay money buys dilithium from player who has had the time to earn it on his behalf and the player who is selling it is paid for his time with zen.
the mere fact that the player that is selling his dilithium has had fun doing it is neither here or there.
many people who work and are paid enjoy their job and have fun doing it, does that mean they deserve paying any less.
just look at football players, they are paid very well just for playing a game they enjoy.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I doubt there would be inflation at all caused by an increased daily cap. Note that dilithium is a pure time currency. If somebody plays 5 hours a week and earns say 40'000 dilithium he still only plays 5 hours a week earning the same amount of dilithium after the daily cap has been increased.
What causes the inflation on the dilithium exchange is people saving up large amounts of refined dilithium and suddendly puting most of it on the exchange. This usually happens when something new to spend Zen on comes out. Another factor is the actual number of active players as well as the average time spent on grinding per player. And finally inflation reflects how easy it is for a player to earn large amounts of dilithium (events).
Wrong. The AMOUNT OF UNREFINED DILITHIUM you earn per day is an indicator on how much you play, not the cap. People who play less and earn less than the daily cap per day would still be able to refine all of it, while regular players who spend more time would be able to refine more dilithium on the SAME character. Meaning that if somebody spends 2 hours a day grinding dilithium on 4 chars he or she would now spend 2 hours grinding dilithium on 2 chars if the daily cap was doubled.
I advocate in favor of a total elimination of the daily dilithium refinement cap. There might be an initial spike in exchange prices but in the end it would not make any difference at all. Due to multiple char grinding and easy transferability of dilithium from one char to an alt veterans are already refining everything they earn per day.
I don't understand, how a player who never spend money in the game make cryptic earn money buy playing ?
Because when your boss give you work (even if it is work) what you do will make him earn money.
For the dilithium exchange I'm agree but what the problem if you find a way where the change rate is increase by making the subscription and the act of buy zen more interesting ? because player who have time for that will still can do the same no ?
Ok. I don't know how many people the core members of your fleet so I'll give a random number. 50
So 50+you+OP. So 52 players.
52 players want to change a major part of the game for them.
Lets try something fun. Lets think about what else 52 people may think should be changed in the game for them.
52 players think t5-u is dumb and the upgrade system should not be ingame.
52 players think random drops are better then the rep system and now you have pug space undine queued events until the RNG gods drop a part and better yet you have each one until each countless times until the loot drops. People hate the rng of lockboxes but thanks to 52 people rng is now part of STO's "endgame"
52 people think STO's next xpac should all about pvp, so devs pull some BS out of their backside and countless players' neck are broken from the whiplash of STO's main storyline
I could go but you get my point I hope.
I won't bring up the exchange, PWE/Cryptic's greed, or lifetimers but please think about this.
What is your most beloved part of STO (and if you say nothing then why are you still playing?)? Now think how you would feel if 52 players said it should change and they give reasons you don't like, and you give a counter to everything they say. How would you feel if the devs did it. Ruin/changed your most beloved part of the game? It would suck right?
Last bit, I'm not a lifetimer nor have I ever been a gold player and I have been playing around the time the oddy came out so a few years. I'm against a dil raise.
you lost me a bit there but to answer this part of your question "I don't understand, how a player who never spend money in the game make cryptic earn money buy playing ? "
because the buyer of the dilithium has paid money to cryptic with the express purpose of buying dilithium, if the player who has never spent any money was not selling his dilithium that he got by playing the player who is buying it would not have spent the money to buy it.
therefore the player who has never spent money in the game is able to make cryptic earn money buy playing.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Sorry if i lost you, English is not my first language. But you make my point this system work only because some player pay for other.
And i'm tired play more and more, for other player because of my play time is low. And that why i was talking in other post about raise (or broke) the dilithium limit for subscriver, in this way everybody will find what they want.
yet another player whos play time is low yet seems to have more dilithium then he can refine, I must be playing wrong as I play a lot I rarely have more dilithium then I can refine except when there is an event with a big dilithium payout.
the thing is I seem to be enjoying the game as it is and you do not, so maybe im not playing so wrong after all.
maybe you are?
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
P.S. i said i didnt want to be really bias but i need to make this point clear.
I only wanted to understand why it couldnt be raised
and i was thinking openly minded about the pro's this could achieve
also if you are so blinded by the exchange and how much it could slightly effect your wealth then i also suggest u find another game preferably Stock Market Simulator.
once again i apologise for anyone who got made uncomfortable in this post i did not intend for this.:(
Don't apologize. You could make a thread about cute kittens and there still would be people ranting about it. You are not responsible for people who don't know how to behave.
Hum so because you enjoy the way you play everyone should play in the same way ?
What i say is yes my play time is low but at least with that when i can play i'm not ennoy or limit by the dilithium limit and as a subscriber i can have what my game time give me and not what my credit car give me in plus of my subscription
Every single big patch there are more and more dilithium sinks being implemented. But dilithium gain has remained the same.
If you introduce new and expensive mechanics that involve the use of dilithium, and you don't increase the amount of dilithium you can gain, you create a toxic imbalance. People are more and more starting to value dilithium and extremely expensive commodity. To the point where people, for example, no longer dump dilithium into fleet projects, because they'll need it a lot more now and in the future (DR).
In short: Dilithium sinks are increasing where dilithium sources are now.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
No ranting is required for threads like this. But raising the Dilithium cap, injecting more Dilithium into the economy, causes inflation, and thus devaluation. So it simply doesn't have the positive effect you think it will have, is all.
There is also plenty of fun stuff that does reward dil, however what one person finds fun another could find a grind.
When I started I was like you very rarely reaching my cap. Then I read a post by one of the people taking part here about the different ways to earn dil, and this was a long time ago and more have been added since then, what that person doesn't know about it basically isn't worth knowing. Since then I can hit my cap and then some.
I started playing them, the ones I didn't enjoy I didn't play again and the ones I did enjoy I continued to do. Even with the cut down list I could make my cap. You need to find what you enjoy and see if there are ways to get dil at the same time.
With the additions to the game since all that time ago there are even more ways. For example I had a lot of fun playing the Voth battle zone that I didn't even notice I was earning dil while doing it.
Therefore to say all people worry about is grinding is a bit of an exaggeration as I doubt that many people worry about it at all.
Well, it's not your fault first off that some people are going insane. You are also not the first to ask for dil cap increase and most defiantly won't be the last.
I actually hope dil cap increase requests go to the F.C.T. While I understand it's not exactly a 'will never happen' scenario, it's been talked about almost to death, and things get sour real quick.
At the end of the day, it's up to Cryptic what they want to do. Increase, not increase, heck perhaps even decrease, who knows, but from my understanding, they have been monitoring dil usage. They have actual numbers to work with, they know their goals, I really don't feel we have any influence what-so-ever, regardless of our own reasoning.
Choices have consequences. You need to choose what means more to you and spend your dil on that and as such you don't get to spend it elsewhere. Either that or you have to save up slowly for it and have a bit of patience until you get there.
The cap doesn't need raising people just need to work together on the big projects, and save up for their own stuff.
I have seen countless threads over time about how hard it is to get dil for fleet projects yet if everyone in the fleet just gave a small amount of their dill refinement each day then the projects would get filled. Yes it would take longer in smaller fleets, but fleets are meant to be a long term project for all members not a get it done quickly thing.
The same applies to things individually you do not need that zen ship, those rep weapons/gear or that fleet item to play the game they are bonuses. Therefore build them up over time and you will still get there. For example I raised my Omega rep mainly through Defari zone and the occasional red alert all the way to teir 5 and got my ship items that way. Until then I was happily pottering along in the freebee sets from missions.
As is my right to be agree when someone ask for change the rules
You do realise that acting like you are sorry while making no less than two snide comments at those disagreeing you with is a pretty feeble gesture, right?
It's the rule in many nations that woman may be stoned to death. Doesn't make it a good rule.
Telling someone their arguments are invalid "because the rule is the rule" is pretty far out there.
As players we chalange this rule because it's boring, lazy design and it becomes an issue because there is far more dilithium required stuff now than ever before.
If you introduce mechanics (R&D now) that require a lot of dilithium, then increase the dil daily cap. The demand is ever increasing yet the supply stays the same. You really don't see an issue with that?
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Do you not, realistically given this game is F2P and Cryptics business model off of it, that they'll just increase all the prices on Dil sinks if they increase the cap? So you're right back where you started.
They will not aid you in refining loads more dil per day and therefore remove one of the big reasons people contribute money to the game and their wages. They know this, it keeps the game running and keeps all of us with a game. This is the price of a F2P game and keeping STO running so successfully.
so when was the last time you took a week out and just replayed some missions, it surprising what you missed first time round in your rush to complete the mission and level up.
when was the last time you had a look to see if there were any accolades you could pick up that you haven't got yet, ive spent the last month touring the 14 clusters trying to get all the chain missions and accolades there.
when was the last time you played some stuff that just pays out fleet marks for a couple of evenings.
sure I often only get a couple of thousand dil each day mostly from doff missions but I don't worry about such things and never have.
and as I said in another post I still get all the gear I need, am one of the top donators in my large fleet leader board and still have saved enough dil since the start of this year to buy loads of stuff on the c-store including the dyson maga pack for 10k zen and have over 16k zen saved up for some DR T6 ships mostly from converting dil with a little bit of stipend thrown in, and the year aint over yet.
sure some of the stuff that pays high amounts of dil can be fun too and I play them sometimes but I don't just do that stuff and nothing else, if I earn lots of dil one day fine and if I don't that's fine also, all I care is if I have had an enjoyable evening and let my finances worry about themselves.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.