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can we raise the Dilithium Cap for DR?

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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Already answered on post #76 with a link included




    But you've chosen to ignore that because it doesn't support your argument.

    The devs are the only people with access to the actual numbers and they say the amount of dil being refined is far less than the cap.

    You are just making stuff up and pretending to know what you're talking about.

    we are alomost at patch 10 so that's a long time ago and many changes have been made since. Again not everyone does but heck again if i can get 8k on one toon in 2 hours or less then that's an issue. It's also an issue that even lifers can't refine all the dil they have
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    You still think Rep Projects cost DIL. That show's your ignorant. Can you actually give a valid argument or just keep reposting the same "my fleet ahs 2 lifers.." line? I have countered and /or remedied all your "arguments". You have no argument for it, multiple people have give arguments against it.



    Let me guess, your response will be:



    I hope you don't lose your copy/paste clipboard :D

    Are you for getting weapons, items and sets. I think so. Rep upgrade doesn't cost dil but Omega set, various weapons and fightrers DO. You are the ignorant one.
  • thelordofshadesthelordofshades Member Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    More valid than making TRIBBLE up and pretending its true in order to justify ones greedy and selfish agenda. :rolleyes:
    A straw-man argument is so straw-man ;)
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    More valid than making TRIBBLE up and pretending its true in order to justify ones greedy and selfish agenda. :rolleyes:

    we are looking at everything that needs dil and at the current cap. You are using an outdated survey since many changes have happened since season 7
    I'm a lifer and I've never had any problems refining all the dil I manage to acquire, and I've never once reached the dil cap on any of my 30 characters.

    My experiences are just as valid as yours and my conclusions are just as accurate if not more accurate because my conclusions aren't self serving or clouded by personal greed. :rolleyes:

    so you don't needc a cap raise. good for you. others do. again my fleet leaders havethens of thousands of dil that they can't refine. And it's not personal greed. it's fairness and logic. I am willing to grind for the dil but the cap gets annoying. and with ALL that needs dil now REALLY annoying.
  • kavasekavase Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    we are alomost at patch 10 so that's a long time ago and many changes have been made since. Again not everyone does but heck again if i can get 8k on one toon in 2 hours or less then that's an issue. It's also an issue that even lifers can't refine all the dil they have

    Are you for getting weapons, items and sets. I think so. Rep upgrade doesn't cost dil but Omega set, various weapons and fightrers DO. You are the ignorant one.

    I'm sure this will be futile to explain anything to you, but I'll give it a shot.

    What has change exactly from patch 7 till now? Just to be clear, we are talking about reaching the refine limitation and nothing else.

    Further more, even whatever things may have change in terms of how you earn and spend dil, the devs use the dil refine cap as a guide to help determine their pricing.

    They could leave the cap where it is or increase it, I don't really care either way to be honest, but your in for a rude surpize when you find out what would happen if the cap was increased.
    Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kavase wrote: »
    I'm sure this will be futile to explain anything to you, but I'll give it a shot.

    What has change exactly from patch 7 till now? Just to be clear, we are talking about reaching the refine limitation and nothing else.

    Further more, even whatever things may have change in terms of how you earn and spend dil, the devs use the dil refine cap as a guide to help determine their pricing.

    They could leave the cap where it is or increase it, I don't really care either way to be honest, but your in for a rude surpize when you find out what would happen if the cap was increased.

    the various reps that we now have. and the all the gear in them. yes you may not need them all for you ships builds but the ones you do need for start being costly then add in fleet. and with the upcoming upgrade with DR you are going to need some there as well. And given Cryptic's track record on things i don;t think they do take it into account.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Lets try this again.

    The devs have systems in place to datamine and know how many people are hitting dil cap and based on their last report to us most players are not hitting the dil cap.

    Based on what I have read in this thread less then 10 players have been "polled" and they say the dil cap need to be raised?


    So the choices right now is old solid large scale data or an INSANELY small poll.


    Put your vulcan ears on and please try to use logic.

    Which one looks like a better form of data?
  • solemkofsolemkof Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    [...] my fleet leaders havethens of thousands of dil that they can't refine.
    One week of doing things other than dil-grinding could remedy that.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    solemkof wrote: »
    One week of doing things other than dil-grinding could remedy that.

    indeed and there is so much fun stuff to do in the game that doesn't even reward dil maybe just the odd accolade, but all people do is worry about grinding dil for that next carrot they are chasing and then complain that they never have any fun any more, try stopping and smelling the roses for once, stop worrying about dil and just do some stuff that looks interesting.

    I could not even tell you how much dil I got today in rewards, I haven't looked and am not even bothered if I didn't get any, all I do know is I had some fun playing the game with my fleet mates and got a few accolades I have been hoping to win, im well happy.
    I even spent some time just watching other players chasing epohh, it was very relaxing.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    the various reps that we now have. and the all the gear in them.

    I already gave the actual numbers for those. Just like I provided the previous links. :mad:

    Regardless of how old the blog is, they explicitly stated that they will monitor the average income, and balance dilithium costs against it. They have already reduced and tweak dilithium costs as part of this ongoing effort.

    As I have already posted the numbers, we can see that any "casual" players who are actually hitting 8k a day will have enough Dilithium to buy almost a full ship's worth of reputation and fleet gear by the time they actually hit T5 in a reputation system. They'd only be short something like 4 items.

    No matter how you try to obfuscate it, it is plainly evident to all and sundry that you're just pushing to get more dilithium because you're in a small fleet.

    True, I've only had my LTS for 2 years and 3 months, not 4 years - but I'm pretty confident that any 4-year LTS player has absolutely no pressing need for dilithium to buy equipment. As an extremely casual player who is unlikely to hit 4k dil a day (heck, I've only logged on 30 min or so the last few days because Wasteland 2 is out), I'm still sitting on 6 figures of both refined dilithium and dilithium ore.

    The only possible reasons we'd need a higher refining cap is if we're trying to buy our way past the time gates (R&D and upgrades), we're throwing away our Dilithium on multiple sets of equipment (which I'm guilty of), or - surprise surprise - we're trying to buy our way past the manpower gates (Fleet projects).

    Any talk of benefiting "casual players" or people needing equipment is a smokescreen.
  • kara445kara445 Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    For the OP, is one thing you don't understand, if they raise the dilithium cap the exange rate dilithium->zen will increase.

    That mean for people who never buy zen for pay store stuff it will take longer to farm enough dilithium for "buy" the new ship for free.


    And sadly this game is lead by this kind of player, they rules the forum and they fight every people who come with this kind of idea. Because the game no matter all what they want is free stuff.
  • thegcbaconthegcbacon Member Posts: 434 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Are you for getting weapons, items and sets. I think so. Rep upgrade doesn't cost dil but Omega set, various weapons and fightrers DO. You are the ignorant one.

    total Rep set costs vs amount of DIl refined/earned during the 40 days to max Rep was already explained to you. You are by far the most ignorant person I have seen in a long time. Keep pretending that all this was not already explained to you and don't complain when the DIL cap isn't raised due to your ignorance.

    I don't care what your supposed fleet mates have in reserve. According to you, they mistrust everybody in game and won't expand their fleet membership. Let's just calculate the last 30months. They have earned 15K Zen from stipends and refined approximately 7.2M DIL/per character. If they somehow are short on DIL, then it's not Cryptic's problem, it's their own. I'm starting to think you, and them, should log off and seek professional help. Your posts and description of them suggest social disorders that need to be treated.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kara445 wrote: »
    For the OP, is one thing you don't understand, if they raise the dilithium cap the exange rate dilithium->zen will increase.

    That mean for people who never buy zen for pay store stuff it will take longer to farm enough dilithium for "buy" the new ship for free.


    And sadly this game is lead by this kind of player, they rules the forum and they fight every people who come with this kind of idea. Because the game no matter all what they want is free stuff.

    yet a number of them a gold members and lifers.... people who have a vested interest in the game continuing and doing well.


    and ad hominem is notely poor argument only used when you do not have really one. please try harder.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • kara445kara445 Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    nightken wrote: »
    yet a number of them a gold members and lifers.... people who have a vested interest in the game continuing and doing well.


    and ad hominem is notely poor argument only used when you do not have really one. please try harder.


    So because you are not happy with my argument you take the right to not respect my point of view ?

    And is a fact if you look at the forum and read it. you don't come with argument and just make my point each time someone come and attack the free-loader in this game that what we received.
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    I already gave the actual numbers for those. Just like I provided the previous links. :mad:

    Regardless of how old the blog is, they explicitly stated that they will monitor the average income, and balance dilithium costs against it. They have already reduced and tweak dilithium costs as part of this ongoing effort.

    As I have already posted the numbers, we can see that any "casual" players who are actually hitting 8k a day will have enough Dilithium to buy almost a full ship's worth of reputation and fleet gear by the time they actually hit T5 in a reputation system. They'd only be short something like 4 items.

    No matter how you try to obfuscate it, it is plainly evident to all and sundry that you're just pushing to get more dilithium because you're in a small fleet.

    True, I've only had my LTS for 2 years and 3 months, not 4 years - but I'm pretty confident that any 4-year LTS player has absolutely no pressing need for dilithium to buy equipment. As an extremely casual player who is unlikely to hit 4k dil a day (heck, I've only logged on 30 min or so the last few days because Wasteland 2 is out), I'm still sitting on 6 figures of both refined dilithium and dilithium ore.

    The only possible reasons we'd need a higher refining cap is if we're trying to buy our way past the time gates (R&D and upgrades), we're throwing away our Dilithium on multiple sets of equipment (which I'm guilty of), or - surprise surprise - we're trying to buy our way past the manpower gates (Fleet projects).

    Any talk of benefiting "casual players" or people needing equipment is a smokescreen.

    Actually it makes a big difference. and why do you put so much faith that they are still doing that. THey couldn't event get the craft revamp to work right Oh and the Galaxy revamp. most of that was done and ready to go back in season 5 and they did nothing to the Galaxy R or even fix graphic glitches like they are doing to Intrepid. No the real smokescreen is you guys. You have no real arguement against the cap. it;s just because most of you spend 300 bucks and feel you should get everything. well again my fleet makes actually earned their lifer status and they are with me on this.
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    total Rep set costs vs amount of DIl refined/earned during the 40 days to max Rep was already explained to you. You are by far the most ignorant person I have seen in a long time. Keep pretending that all this was not already explained to you and don't complain when the DIL cap isn't raised due to your ignorance.

    I don't care what your supposed fleet mates have in reserve. According to you, they mistrust everybody in game and won't expand their fleet membership. Let's just calculate the last 30months. They have earned 15K Zen from stipends and refined approximately 7.2M DIL/per character. If they somehow are short on DIL, then it's not Cryptic's problem, it's their own. I'm starting to think you, and them, should log off and seek professional help. Your posts and description of them suggest social disorders that need to be treated.

    For good reason to mistust. there have been stories of people joining fleets, robbing their bank then leaving so we have a vailid reason to do so. And we have been growing a bit but on average only 6 are really active so we carry the bulk of the weight. The whiole fleet system itself was flawed into TRIBBLE with small fleets. I dare any of these lifers to make a whole new acciount with no subs and see how you like it.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kara445 wrote: »
    So because you are not happy with my argument you take the right to not respect my point of view ?

    And is a fact if you look at the forum and read it. you don't come with argument just make my point each time someone come and attack the free-loader in this game that what we received.

    ok debate 101 when you get called on your ad hominem you don't go right back to it you change track. preferable with random facts that have little to do with the subject at hand.

    the arguments have been made it would have a negative impact on the game as pointed out by veterns and newbies alike. repeatedly in this thread and others like it.


    and respect has not and will never be a "right" you give some to hopeful receive it in return, but their is nothing that can force someone to give it to you.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • thegcbaconthegcbacon Member Posts: 434 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    For good reason to mistust. there have been stories of people joining fleets, robbing their bank then leaving so we have a vailid reason to do so. And we have been growing a bit but on average only 6 are really active so we carry the bulk of the weight. The whiole fleet system itself was flawed into TRIBBLE with small fleets. I dare any of these lifers to make a whole new acciount with no subs and see how you like it.

    If your fleet leaders can't enact the Fleet bank/Store lockouts, then they're incompetent. There is a ranking system in fleet and the leadership select which rank gets which privileges. This was already explained to you. There is no rational reason not to recruit more people into your fleet. Your last part makes little sense, since your fleet is run by lifers itself. Small fleets aren't screwed and to many are @an advantage, as it's easier to gain Fleet Credits. W/all the fleets allowing access to top stores, it makes a small fleet's life easier.
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    nightken wrote: »
    ok debate 101 when you get called on your ad hominem you don't go right back to it you change track. preferable with random facts that have little to do with the subject at hand.

    the arguments have been made it would have a negative impact on the game as pointed out by veterns and newbies alike. repeatedly in this thread and others like it.


    and respect has not and will never be a "right" you give some to hopeful receive it in return, but their is nothing that can force someone to give it to you.

    I should note that many veterans are for the increase.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lets just suppose for one moment the devs did as you say and raised the cap, here is what would happen.
    nobody needs to buy zen to exchange for dil because everybody can refine all the dil they need in no time flat, so much less money coming into the game.
    because nobodys buying dil the ftp players and subscribers alike who exchange dil for zen to buy extras off the c-store cant exchange with anyone so c-store sales take a massive dive.

    with the only money coming into the game from current subscribers the odd sale of a lifetime sub and the odd player who has their own money to spend on the c-store cryptics profits from sto take a massive dive.
    the directors and shareholders who run and own cryptic decide that sto doesnt warrent supporting any more as theres not enough money in it or maybe even end up going as far as shutting the game down completely.

    but who cares you got your refine cap increase, so you won.

    one veteran thats not in favour of the increase...

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    If your fleet leaders can't enact the Fleet bank/Store lockouts, then they're incompetent. There is a ranking system in fleet and the leadership select which rank gets which privileges. This was already explained to you. There is no rational reason not to recruit more people into your fleet. Your last part makes little sense, since your fleet is run by lifers itself. Small fleets aren't screwed and to many are @an advantage, as it's easier to gain Fleet Credits. W/all the fleets allowing access to top stores, it makes a small fleet's life easier.

    They have and and since we are almost completely tier 4 we have gotten some new members but in the end it's about 6 of us that still carry the bulk of the weight.
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    No the real smokescreen is you guys. You have no real arguement against the cap. it;s just because most of you spend 300 bucks and feel you should get everything. well again my fleet makes actually earned their lifer status and they are with me on this.

    You've been given any number of cogent, well argued reasons why the cap is fine where it is.

    You've merely rejected the premise of them without offering any concrete rebuttal of any kind whatsoever.

    You've been shown numbers that directly contradict things you've said that you're relying on as fact to back up your arguments.


    And, apparently, all this is to benefit yourself and a shadowy cabal of 'real' lifers, which are somehow distinct from people who merely have LTSs, who wish to expand their fleet faster but refuse to recruit anyone else to help them do it.


    Get help, and I'm out of here.
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lets just suppose for one moment the devs did as you say and raised the cap, here is what would happen.
    nobody needs to buy zen to exchange for dil because everybody can refine all the dil they need in no time flat, so much less money coming into the game.
    because nobodys buying dil the ftp players and subscribers alike who exchange dil for zen to buy extras off the c-store cant exchange with anyone so c-store sales take a massive dive.

    with the only money coming into the game from current subscribers the odd sale of a lifetime sub and the odd player who has their own money to spend on the c-store cryptics profits from sto take a massive dive.
    the directors and shareholders who run and own cryptic decide that sto doesnt warrent supporting any more as theres not enough money in it or maybe even end up going as far as shutting the game down completely.

    but who cares you got your refine cap increase, so you won.

    You ar missiing the sale of lock box keys. and even the lifers in my fleet sometimes buy more Zen. I know one fleet member buys some zen and converts to dil to dump in projects on a rare occasion. ALSO NOTE if Cryptic and PWE handled this game better they might see some cash from me.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    You ar missiing the sale of lock box keys. and even the lifers in my fleet sometimes buy more Zen. I know one fleet member buys some zen and converts to dil to dump in projects on a rare occasion. ALSO NOTE if Cryptic and PWE handled this game better they might see some cash from me.

    as 90% of lockbox keys are bought by players who exhange dil for zen or through the ec exchange i didnt miss anything.
    even so money from lockbox keys would not give enough profit to save the game.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • kara445kara445 Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    nightken wrote: »
    ok debate 101 when you get called on your ad hominem you don't go right back to it you change track. preferable with random facts that have little to do with the subject at hand.

    the arguments have been made it would have a negative impact on the game as pointed out by veterns and newbies alike. repeatedly in this thread and others like it.


    and respect has not and will never be a "right" you give some to hopeful receive it in return, but their is nothing that can force someone to give it to you.

    I'm sorry but expet the argument " i want my free stuff more quickly" no one give an argument against it. each time i try to talk about it and start a adult talk. I revcieve attack hate and nothing more.

    And about respect yes is a human right(mpostly article 1 and 2), because if i follow you can go in street inslut people, split on them that perfectly normal ????? the miss of respect just come from the selfish attitude of most of people and the miss of eductation (moral)

    but still is impossible to have a talk better than the low school level here.
  • thegcbaconthegcbacon Member Posts: 434 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Backtrack, doubletalk, misdirection, deflection, lies

    All those you've used to try to further your agenda. You can't even keep your facts straight any more. Best of luck to you and your fleet mates.

    PS: Rinkster said it politely
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kara445 wrote: »
    I'm sorry but expet the argument " i want my free stuff more quickly" no one give an argument against it. each time i try to talk about it and start a adult talk. I revcieve attack hate and nothing more.

    And about respect yes is a human right(mpostly article 1 and 2), because if i follow you can go in street inslut people, split on them that perfectly normal ?????

    yes you can, nothing can stop you. and after the reaction you know your going to get you can get them arrested too. believe me I've seen it. "rights" are mostly heavy handed suggestions and only work when backed up by force. anyone whose been to high school can tell you what happens when it's not.


    it's been covered much of the game is based on that 8k limit. it's been said again and again. ignoring it because you doesn't change it.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • r5e4w3q2r5e4w3q2 Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    "can we raise the Dilithium Cap for DR?"

    Well seeing as the prices in dilithium for items is figured as X days of cap = price, then we double the cap all the prices double and we end up exactly where we started. Yay for inflation!

    The cap is not a measurement of how much you can buy, but how much you play. Upping the cap would hurt people that play less, while not helping those that play more, because cryptic would just rescale costs for the same number of days played to get a particular item.

    If you want things to be cheaper just ask for things to be cheaper.
  • kara445kara445 Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    nightken wrote: »
    yes you can, nothing can stop you. and after the reaction you know your going to get you can get them arrested too. believe me I've seen it. "rights" are mostly heavy handed suggestions and only work when backed up by force. anyone whose been to high school can tell you what happens when it's not.


    it's been covered much of the game is based on that 8k limit. it's been said again and again. ignoring it because you doesn't change it.


    So for you it's normal to miss respect every one and act like that because you see many people do it ??


    It been said again and against the same thing : they want free stuff and never pay, that the only thing it was say. nobodies come with argument against that but because is none, if you want support the game so you have no problem if the limit is change, you are gold or lLTS same, it change nothing in the core game but it will make longer to have free zen.

    But that you will never give me argument against that.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I should note that many veterans are for the increase.

    How many is "many"?
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    All those you've used to try to further your agenda. You can't even keep your facts straight any more. Best of luck to you and your fleet mates.

    PS: Rinkster said it politely

    I'm not lying and to even say that shows how low your arguement is. You have no logical reason to oppose the cap raise so you are now down to insults.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The whiole fleet system itself was flawed into TRIBBLE with small fleets.

    No, it's not. It's a characteristic of reality. Many hands make light work. 50 is ten times bigger than 5. Fifty people will build something faster than five people.

    There is already a cap on the maximum amount of effort any number of people can put into it, as well as Provisions and Fleet Credits which make it harder for a member of a large fleet to accrue the needed commodities to actually use the system.

    The math has been done repeatedly - the system is actually biased against members of large fleets, but reality is biased against tiny fleets.

    In any case, since I've managed to drag your vested interest into light, I've no further interest in this subject. As someone working in the financial industry, with a degree in economics and other certifications, I was only irked to post because of the ignorant (and ultimately disingenuous) claim that raising the cap will help casual players.

    You and your five buddies trying to make your own fleet are clearly not casual players. I refuse to believe any casual player is goofy enough to be in a fleet with a half-dozen active players and actually try to max it out. The average Fleet size, which the Fleet system was oriented and balanced towards, is considerably larger than that.

    (We did the math, way back when, on determining what size Fleet the system was oriented towards. I don't remember the exact number, but it was double digits. Something like 30-40 active players, based on the costs of the projects and the division of rewards.)
    You have no logical reason to oppose the cap raise so you are now down to insults.

    Anyone who farms dilithium to buy Zen has a vested interest in not having the cap raised, as it would devalue their efforts.

    I oppose raising the cap on principal, since it would make the game less welcoming to new players and more "Pay To Win".
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