It's not so much a matter or liking a certain design or not, rather than if that design still looks remotely like the "corporate design" that was established in the franchise and if people will still releate it to the Star Trek universe.
The JJ-trek Enterprise, STO's Avenger and Odyssey or the Vesta from the novels look like ships that might as well have appeared on the show. They look different, but you can still make out basic ST shapes, symbolism and design features.
What we've seen from ships like the new T6 escort so far, it just looks like it might come out of any generic Sci-Fi universe. Weather someone likes that design or not is irrelevant in that case. It's not a matter of "subjective personal preference", but an objective judgement on design features.
You do know they made them look different on purpose.
They also said that classic skins for these ships would be available
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I asked the same question and still haven't had an answer. Rather curious matter.
Come to think of it, I think I remember this guy, or maybe he runs in the same circle as the other guys who post random nonsense about JJtrek and then never show up again.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
What Lock Box does that come in and how many Tac Consoles will it have?
You don't want that one. The turn rate's worse than an Oddy, and the main reactor's located immediately abaft of the landing bay; one lucky shot and you're toast.
You don't want that one. The turn rate's worse than an Oddy, and the main reactor's located immediately abaft of the landing bay; one lucky shot and you're toast.
But...but...this is Star Trek, not Star Wars...so we've got...
A few things to consider regarding starship design.
Structural Integrity field
Without this, the acceleration of the ship at impulse and more importantly at warp would rip the ship apart. This field keeps the entire ship together. As such, what may appear to be weak pylons are not, they are as strong as the rest of the ship due to the integrity field. The nacelles are also on pylons to keep them away from the main ships structure, this helps to create a more stable warp field, protect the crew from any radiation generated as well as provide the option to 'eject' the nacelle if there are any issues with it. (Shame we never got to see that on the show!).
Vital ship systems (Including bridge)
Many think that the bridge been at the top makes it vulnerable, however there are a couple of factors to take into account
According to the TNG Tech Manual, a starship bridge is a module that can be swapped out, as such it needs to be accessible. Having it nested in the depths of the ship would make this tough.
In Star Trek ships use shields during battle. If a ship is in a battle and its shields are down, it doesn't matter where the bridge is. Starship weapons can bore holes into planets and torpedoes have enough destructive power to destroy small moons. Basically, if you've lost your shields, youre finished.
Whilst the bridge maybe the central command area, in a battle the chances are an enemy wants to destroy or disable your ship, as such, the life-support systems and warp core are far more important to keep protected and like I said, if your shields are down, your ship is in a situation is probably won't be coming back from!
So basically whilst on the face of it the bridge may seem exposed, it really isn't thanks to the ships shields and what may look like weak points of a ship usually arent due to the ships structural integrity field :-)
It is worthwhile pointing out Farpoint wasn't part of the Federation, and Quark (as well as his family) aren't Federation citizens either. By TNG time, the Federation had scrapped money for internal purposes, but obviously it remains a necessity for external affairs as not everyone else follows the same principles.
Guys it's pretty clearly shown that it is HUMANS from EARTH that don't use money.. and not even all of them. There's plenty of money in the Federation. Anyone heard of the Bank of Bolias?
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
The OP just goes into "It doesn't fit my idea of Star Trek, therefor it's not Star Trek"
CBS owns the Star Trek brand. Parramount has the rights to the Trek movies and to make new ones.
Paramount is also the designated distrubtuer of the TV series (IE, they make and sell the Blu-rays and DVDs)
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Guys it's pretty clearly shown that it is HUMANS from EARTH that don't use money.. and not even all of them. There's plenty of money in the Federation. Anyone heard of the Bank of Bolias?
We also know for a fact that by the end of the Earth/Romulan war, Currency was still in use, on earth and Starfleet.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
The only part of Abram-trek in STO is the fantastical supernova/black-hole that reached out a multitude of light years to destroy the original Romulan homeworld. The rest of STO is about what happened in the Prime Universe after this event. We also have the outrageous Red Matter Device that really doesn't do much anymore in game.
JJ-verse is not a component of the STO universe, in any way shape or form. :P
The people in the Federation had businesses. Picard had a winery. It was not free wine. Sisko had a restaurant. It was not free food.
This topic comes up a lot and there are numerous examples on Memory Alpha where the Federation was still using currency and business.
My take (and there's some real economics being done on the feasibility of this) is that currency in Star Trek is used solely for luxury purposes.
Everyone gets food, shelter, healthcare, education in part because the resources to do so are so abundant that it doesn't inconvenience anyone to give it all away.
Currency is used for luxury items, restaurants, and collectibles and is as unevenly distributed as ever. It's just not used for necessities and people don't especially value accumulating it.
In trying to reconcile various things from various shows, the best bet is that people in the future distinguish between currency and money. They see money as dated and backwards. Currency is a hobby collectible and you accumulate it to do unnecessary things. Being focused on the acquisition of it is considered a moral or psychological defect (within the Federation) but it's fine to charge people token amounts and use that to buy baseball cards or cars or evenings out in restaurants or whatever. It's strictly for non-survival goods though.
We also know for a fact that by the end of the Earth/Romulan war, Currency was still in use, on earth and Starfleet.
It's also mentioned in TOS - in "The Trouble With Tribbles", the barkeep wants to charge Uhura ten credits for a tribble, and until Jones gives her one for free, she's fully prepared to pay for it. And in "The Doomsday Machine", when he's informed the phasers are back online, Kirk replies, "Scotty, you've just earned your pay for the week!"
It's also mentioned in TOS - in "The Trouble With Tribbles", the barkeep wants to charge Uhura ten credits for a tribble, and until Jones gives her one for free, she's fully prepared to pay for it. And in "The Doomsday Machine", when he's informed the phasers are back online, Kirk replies, "Scotty, you've just earned your pay for the week!"
There... 3 seperate prime-universe examples... that solves at least one of the issues.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
It's not so much a matter or liking a certain design or not, rather than if that design still looks remotely like the "corporate design" that was established in the franchise and if people will still releate it to the Star Trek universe.
The JJ-trek Enterprise, STO's Avenger and Odyssey or the Vesta from the novels look like ships that might as well have appeared on the show. They look different, but you can still make out basic ST shapes, symbolism and design features.
What we've seen from ships like the new T6 escort so far, it just looks like it might come out of any generic Sci-Fi universe. Weather someone likes that design or not is irrelevant in that case. It's not a matter of "subjective personal preference", but an objective judgement on design features.
The Guardian isn't an Intel ship. It's the T6 ship that looks like a beefy/armored version of Probert's Ambassador.
It's really just the Intel ships that look like flat, black polygon collections. And I'll grant that the Phantom looks Defiant-y. The Intel Cruiser and Sci ship are the ones that look demonstrably off brand.
It's also mentioned in TOS - in "The Trouble With Tribbles", the barkeep wants to charge Uhura ten credits for a tribble, and until Jones gives her one for free, she's fully prepared to pay for it. And in "The Doomsday Machine", when he's informed the phasers are back online, Kirk replies, "Scotty, you've just earned your pay for the week!"
There... 3 seperate prime-universe examples... that solves at least one of the issues.
Make that four. Anybody else remember how Morn was involved in robbing the Bank of Bolias? The Bolians are Federation members.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Originally Posted by commanderkassy View Post
Guys it's pretty clearly shown that it is HUMANS from EARTH that don't use money.. and not even all of them. There's plenty of money in the Federation. Anyone heard of the Bank of Bolias?
We also know for a fact that by the end of the Earth/Romulan war, Currency was still in use, on earth and Starfleet.
In the Trek universe, Human no longer seek material gain as a symbol of success. Currency of a sort (Credits) is still used as a symbol of gaining items for work. It is not a capitalistic system, but it is also not a socialist system in which everyone gets the same no matter how much they do. Such a system would fall apart because only a few would actually be productive and the rest will give the minimum. :rolleyes:
I see people claiming Abramverse is part of Star Trek, well not prime universe Star Trek. Spock and Kirk even state this directly to the camera in the middle of Star Trek (2009) "Abram Trek". CBS (OR SOMEONE ELSE, whatever, its irrelevant) may own both Abramverse and Star Trek but they are not the same.
what the hell has jjcrapverse got to do with sto? and you have no connections or mentions in your quote here towards that end.
since its not directly about sto, move it to ten forward.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Make that four. Anybody else remember how Morn was involved in robbing the Bank of Bolias? The Bolians are Federation members.
Personally, I am somewhat holding back on the Bolius thing.
I don't deny that a bank involves money, but we have no confirmation that it was actually used within the federation. For all we know, it's only Gold-pressed latinum and universal currency.
After all, Morn stole latinum, and O'Brians gang stole "money", but they were outside the federation, so in theory it could have all been non-federation money.
We know Picard said that money is not important, for federation humans at least, in the 24'th century, so that deflates the theory of the need for money within the federation.
In the Trek universe, Human no longer seek material gain as a symbol of success. Currency of a sort (Credits) is still used as a symbol of gaining items for work. It is not a capitalistic system, but it is also not a socialist system in which everyone gets the same no matter how much they do. Such a system would fall apart because only a few would actually be productive and the rest will give the minimum. :rolleyes:
The direct quote from Trip: "I trust you not to steal my money"...
Thats not something you say if money has no value to you.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
There... 3 seperate prime-universe examples... that solves at least one of the issues.
There is also Spocks comment in IIRC "Patterns of Force" on the investment the federation has put in to them, and he does mean money.
I think the issue is that they don't officially use a hard currency.
They only mention "oh, we don't use money" when they are trying to sound superior.
There was also a one liner I always though was funny in Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force from Mr. Chell "Does the Hazard Team get hazard pay?"
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I see people claiming Abramverse is part of Star Trek, well not prime universe Star Trek. Spock and Kirk even state this directly to the camera in the middle of Star Trek (2009) "Abram Trek". CBS (OR SOMEONE ELSE, whatever, its irrelevant) may own both Abramverse and Star Trek but they are not the same.
Weeeelllll, its not exactly a simple question.
The destruction of Romulus happens in the Abrams universe, but is reflected in STOs universe.
STO can't play with anything directly from the Abrams movies, with a couple of technical exceptions, but it has incorporated some of its story.
The destruction of Romulus happens in the Abrams universe, but is reflected in STOs universe.
STO can't play with anything directly from the Abrams movies, with a couple of technical exceptions, but it has incorporated some of its story.
Eahrm no... The destruction of Romulus was in the Prime Universe... The planet destroyed in the new movies was Vulcan... It's one of the few things, along with the Jellyfish that is considered from the Universe of Picard, Sisko and Janeway.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
There is also Spocks comment in IIRC "Patterns of Force" on the investment the federation has put in to them, and he does mean money.
I think the issue is that they don't officially use a hard currency.
They only mention "oh, we don't use money" when they are trying to sound superior.
There was also a one liner I always though was funny in Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force from Mr. Chell "Does the Hazard Team get hazard pay?"
I think they basically view "money" as a swear word in part because you could have debt and you could be deprived of necessities.
In their system, you bottom out at zero (no debt) and you'll never need currency to live.
In the cases where someone like Trip uses the word money, I think it's either because he predates the Federation (which didn't exist in Enterprise) or he's playfully using a swear word to refer to currency.
I'd give modern examples of people playfully using swear words but I doubt the mods would appreciate it. But I'd guess that referring to currency as money in Star Trek implies that you can have debt and that it is required for necessities. Neither is true inside the Federation, officially.
Now, the absence of debt is something I'm sure someone will counter by saying, "Character X said he wanted to borrow fifty credits." My take on that would probably be that debt in Trek would be investigated as a criminal matter. If someone deliberately committed fraud, they go to jail and you don't get what they owed you. If they lost it accidentally, the Federation stance is, "Sucks to be you. Be careful who you loan to." At no point is anyone in the negative because, again, basics are free and nobody is compelled to work. They work for the experience of doing something enjoyable.
So they'd distinguish between credits/currency and money in that money is something you can have a negative amount of and can be required for survival. Therefore "money" is something you have only outside the Federation and is sometimes used as a playful swear, like calling your friend one of the b-words or an SOB. It isn't literally "money" anymore than someone's friend is literally an SOB (which would make them half-Antican?) (I think I found a safe way to make that point.)
Money is a distasteful word for them. Money and currency/credits mean different things.
We live in an infinite universe connected interconnected with other infinite universes. Because of this I like to think that all fictional places, countries, planets, systems and whole universes exist in some form somewhere.
I can't speak to TOS as I am far from an expert on it, however, I don't think EF counts any more as a reliable source than STO does.
I know it means nothing, I just thought it was funny. given the circumstances (you're wandering around an alien ship and Chell is scared "s word"-less.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I know it means nothing, I just thought it was funny. given the circumstances (you're wandering around an alien ship and Chell is scared "s word"-less.
Great... Your insisting on mentioning that game, now forces me to go through the rather tedious experience of getting the game running on windows 7...
Sigh...
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
The destruction of Romulus happens in the Abrams universe, but is reflected in STOs universe.
STO can't play with anything directly from the Abrams movies, with a couple of technical exceptions, but it has incorporated some of its story.
No, the destruction of Romulus happened in the prime reality which resulted in the creation of the alternate timeline, and this is set in the prime reality. Whatever limited impact Star Trek XI had on that reality is covered by the game, seemingly they had to go direct to JJ Abrams himself at one point to discuss exactly what was happening, and convince him to only destroy Romulus, and not the rest of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant as well (and only take out Spock), presumably whatever rights issues were sorted out at that point.
I see people claiming Abramverse is part of Star Trek, well not prime universe Star Trek. Spock and Kirk even state this directly to the camera in the middle of Star Trek (2009) "Abram Trek". CBS (OR SOMEONE ELSE, whatever, its irrelevant) may own both Abramverse and Star Trek but they are not the same.
quite right, the only thing in sto that was featured in the jj movies was the destruction of the romulan home world as this was based in the prime universe.
and then quite wrong even though it is based in an alternate time line it is still part of star trek lore just like all that happens in the mirror universe is.
having said that nothing from the jj movies will ever feature in sto because of copyright protection.
The people in the Federation had businesses. Picard had a winery. It was not free wine. Sisko had a restaurant. It was not free food.
This topic comes up a lot and there are numerous examples on Memory Alpha where the Federation was still using currency and business.
indeed, there is still businesses and money in star trek its just not the be all and end all of life for people that it is today.
its just a thing you use once in a blue moon when you really have to, a bit like postage stamps today.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
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Search for donut...I'd forgotten about that as well.
I asked the same question and still haven't had an answer. Rather curious matter.
You do know they made them look different on purpose.
They also said that classic skins for these ships would be available
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Come to think of it, I think I remember this guy, or maybe he runs in the same circle as the other guys who post random nonsense about JJtrek and then never show up again.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
But...but...this is Star Trek, not Star Wars...so we've got...
Guys it's pretty clearly shown that it is HUMANS from EARTH that don't use money.. and not even all of them. There's plenty of money in the Federation. Anyone heard of the Bank of Bolias?
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
CBS owns the Star Trek brand. Parramount has the rights to the Trek movies and to make new ones.
Paramount is also the designated distrubtuer of the TV series (IE, they make and sell the Blu-rays and DVDs)
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
We also know for a fact that by the end of the Earth/Romulan war, Currency was still in use, on earth and Starfleet.
JJ-verse is not a component of the STO universe, in any way shape or form. :P
My take (and there's some real economics being done on the feasibility of this) is that currency in Star Trek is used solely for luxury purposes.
Everyone gets food, shelter, healthcare, education in part because the resources to do so are so abundant that it doesn't inconvenience anyone to give it all away.
Currency is used for luxury items, restaurants, and collectibles and is as unevenly distributed as ever. It's just not used for necessities and people don't especially value accumulating it.
In trying to reconcile various things from various shows, the best bet is that people in the future distinguish between currency and money. They see money as dated and backwards. Currency is a hobby collectible and you accumulate it to do unnecessary things. Being focused on the acquisition of it is considered a moral or psychological defect (within the Federation) but it's fine to charge people token amounts and use that to buy baseball cards or cars or evenings out in restaurants or whatever. It's strictly for non-survival goods though.
There... 3 seperate prime-universe examples... that solves at least one of the issues.
The Guardian isn't an Intel ship. It's the T6 ship that looks like a beefy/armored version of Probert's Ambassador.
It's really just the Intel ships that look like flat, black polygon collections. And I'll grant that the Phantom looks Defiant-y. The Intel Cruiser and Sci ship are the ones that look demonstrably off brand.
Make that four. Anybody else remember how Morn was involved in robbing the Bank of Bolias? The Bolians are Federation members.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Guys it's pretty clearly shown that it is HUMANS from EARTH that don't use money.. and not even all of them. There's plenty of money in the Federation. Anyone heard of the Bank of Bolias?
In the Trek universe, Human no longer seek material gain as a symbol of success. Currency of a sort (Credits) is still used as a symbol of gaining items for work. It is not a capitalistic system, but it is also not a socialist system in which everyone gets the same no matter how much they do. Such a system would fall apart because only a few would actually be productive and the rest will give the minimum. :rolleyes:
what the hell has jjcrapverse got to do with sto? and you have no connections or mentions in your quote here towards that end.
since its not directly about sto, move it to ten forward.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Personally, I am somewhat holding back on the Bolius thing.
I don't deny that a bank involves money, but we have no confirmation that it was actually used within the federation. For all we know, it's only Gold-pressed latinum and universal currency.
After all, Morn stole latinum, and O'Brians gang stole "money", but they were outside the federation, so in theory it could have all been non-federation money.
We know Picard said that money is not important, for federation humans at least, in the 24'th century, so that deflates the theory of the need for money within the federation.
But yes... The indication is there.
The direct quote from Trip: "I trust you not to steal my money"...
Thats not something you say if money has no value to you.
It's kind of like STO, all the sound effects are there but it's pretty f... far from star trek
There is also Spocks comment in IIRC "Patterns of Force" on the investment the federation has put in to them, and he does mean money.
I think the issue is that they don't officially use a hard currency.
They only mention "oh, we don't use money" when they are trying to sound superior.
There was also a one liner I always though was funny in Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force from Mr. Chell "Does the Hazard Team get hazard pay?"
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Weeeelllll, its not exactly a simple question.
The destruction of Romulus happens in the Abrams universe, but is reflected in STOs universe.
STO can't play with anything directly from the Abrams movies, with a couple of technical exceptions, but it has incorporated some of its story.
I can't speak to TOS as I am far from an expert on it, however, I don't think EF counts any more as a reliable source than STO does.
Of cause, in voyager, we KNOW there was a currency: Replicator Rations.
Eahrm no... The destruction of Romulus was in the Prime Universe... The planet destroyed in the new movies was Vulcan... It's one of the few things, along with the Jellyfish that is considered from the Universe of Picard, Sisko and Janeway.
I think they basically view "money" as a swear word in part because you could have debt and you could be deprived of necessities.
In their system, you bottom out at zero (no debt) and you'll never need currency to live.
In the cases where someone like Trip uses the word money, I think it's either because he predates the Federation (which didn't exist in Enterprise) or he's playfully using a swear word to refer to currency.
I'd give modern examples of people playfully using swear words but I doubt the mods would appreciate it. But I'd guess that referring to currency as money in Star Trek implies that you can have debt and that it is required for necessities. Neither is true inside the Federation, officially.
Now, the absence of debt is something I'm sure someone will counter by saying, "Character X said he wanted to borrow fifty credits." My take on that would probably be that debt in Trek would be investigated as a criminal matter. If someone deliberately committed fraud, they go to jail and you don't get what they owed you. If they lost it accidentally, the Federation stance is, "Sucks to be you. Be careful who you loan to." At no point is anyone in the negative because, again, basics are free and nobody is compelled to work. They work for the experience of doing something enjoyable.
So they'd distinguish between credits/currency and money in that money is something you can have a negative amount of and can be required for survival. Therefore "money" is something you have only outside the Federation and is sometimes used as a playful swear, like calling your friend one of the b-words or an SOB. It isn't literally "money" anymore than someone's friend is literally an SOB (which would make them half-Antican?) (I think I found a safe way to make that point.)
Money is a distasteful word for them. Money and currency/credits mean different things.
We live in an infinite universe connected interconnected with other infinite universes. Because of this I like to think that all fictional places, countries, planets, systems and whole universes exist in some form somewhere.
Just need to open your mind a bit is all
I know it means nothing, I just thought it was funny. given the circumstances (you're wandering around an alien ship and Chell is scared "s word"-less.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Great... Your insisting on mentioning that game, now forces me to go through the rather tedious experience of getting the game running on windows 7...
Sigh...
No, the destruction of Romulus happened in the prime reality which resulted in the creation of the alternate timeline, and this is set in the prime reality. Whatever limited impact Star Trek XI had on that reality is covered by the game, seemingly they had to go direct to JJ Abrams himself at one point to discuss exactly what was happening, and convince him to only destroy Romulus, and not the rest of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant as well (and only take out Spock), presumably whatever rights issues were sorted out at that point.
quite right, the only thing in sto that was featured in the jj movies was the destruction of the romulan home world as this was based in the prime universe.
and then quite wrong even though it is based in an alternate time line it is still part of star trek lore just like all that happens in the mirror universe is.
having said that nothing from the jj movies will ever feature in sto because of copyright protection.
indeed, there is still businesses and money in star trek its just not the be all and end all of life for people that it is today.
its just a thing you use once in a blue moon when you really have to, a bit like postage stamps today.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.