JJ Trek exist as expensive pop fanfic in my headcanon. I don't care what corporations wish to pollute Gene's vision of a genuine utopia. Shots fired.
I give Gene credit for creating this universe but I believe Paramount and the execs kept him from George Lucas'ing his work.
He wanted to declare TOS invalid in favor of TNG
all the movies that he hated are the ones I love...WOK and Undiscovered Country.
The JJ-verse will be just like TNG...hated by fans at first but then they came around
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I give Gene credit for creating this universe but I believe Paramount and the execs kept him from George Lucas'ing his work.
He wanted to declare TOS invalid in favor of TNG
all the movies that he hated are the ones I love...WOK and Undiscovered Country.
The JJ-verse will be just like TNG...hated by fans at first but then they came around
For every Jj trek fan, there are 5 that are not. From pretty much every complete die hard trek related media format, almost everyone hate its portrayal of Trek. Take your pick. New age trek stories aren't hip or edgy because they can make Spock act like an emo rage monster or Kirk a cliche version of a 60's Shatner. The only good non-parody portrayal of a person in starfleet who has characteristics of the TOS crew was Karl Urban. Everyone else is shouting as loud as they can, dropping obnoxious jokes for movie theater audience approval.
Actors were fine, fx fine, story was an abomination. The whole 9/11 Iraq war so called Easter egg in STID was not only poorly executed, and was not a highlight of better choices, but a tool for greater polarization of the community through political messages. Not even on par with the Cold War theme of previous movies. Bob admitted he made mistakes, one of those mistakes made their way into an editorial over a Trekmovie article that took JJ trek apart with surgical precision. Much like Plinkett, Cinema sins and Honest Trailers.
I like STO because the Devs feel the same. It's why Beasty Boys isn't played on ESD.
For every Jj trek fan, there are 5 that are not. From pretty much every complete die hard trek related media format, almost everyone hate its portrayal of Trek. Take your pick. New age trek stories aren't hip or edgy because they can make Spock act like an emo rage monster or Kirk a cliche version of a 60's Shatner. The only good non-parody portrayal of a person in starfleet who has characteristics of the TOS crew was Karl Urban. Everyone else is shouting as loud as they can, dropping obnoxious jokes for movie theater audience approval.
Actors were fine, fx fine, story was an abomination. The whole 9/11 Iraq war so called Easter egg in STID was not only poorly executed, and was not a highlight of better choices, but a tool for greater polarization of the community through political messages. Not even on par with the Cold War theme of previous movies. Bob admitted he made mistakes, one of those mistakes made their way into an editorial over a Trekmovie article that took JJ trek apart with surgical precision. Much like Plinkett, Cinema sins and Honest Trailers.
I like STO because the Devs feel the same. It's why Beasty Boys isn't played on ESD.
If there were message boards when TNG came out I guarantee it would have said the same things. People generally hated TNG. I remember being at conventions and hearing quite a few people hating on it.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If there were message boards when TNG came out I guarantee it would have said the same things. People generally hated TNG. I remember being at conventions and hearing quite a few people hating on it.
I hear constant attempts to compare quality classics to the microwaved modern media. The arguments just don't stand the test of time. Nothing about JJ Trek is profound or memorable, or enlightening, or made you connect with the spirit of exploration. If there were forums your first argument could not be the acting, the fx, or the themes. The worst you complain about is that it is boring, not that it doesn't reflect trek.
I hear constant attempts to compare quality classics to the microwaved modern media. The arguments just don't stand the test of time. Nothing about JJ Trek is profound or memorable, or enlightening, or made you connect with the spirit of exploration. If there were forums your first argument could not be the acting, the fx, or the themes. The worst you complain about is that it is boring, not that it doesn't reflect trek.
The fans hated TNG when it came out. ...and a lot of people claimed it wasn't trek...
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The fans hated TNG when it came out. ...and a lot of people claimed it wasn't trek...
When something new comes out that is a usual result of few. JJ Trek was and is a war on trek ethos. It shows very little respect for Starfleets militaristic order, and makes the leaders perform and act like sports coaches. "I knew your father, here's the keys to our best starship", "Prime directive, what's that? Oh a stupid rule that nerds and squares (trekkies) believe in and following, and to look hip and edgy we're going to break the rules. " Kahn from jail says : darn that girls dad turned me in as soon as I gave magic cross tribble / human healing blood to my daughter thus eliminating all leverage I had...oh wait the dad still kills himself to leave his daughter alone with a guy that just told him to blow himself up..brilliant. Shall I go into the point where Pine gets told to fire unfueled torpedoes which Kahn some how predicted Pine wouldn't fire and thus figure out something was wrong...I guess he predicted that, just like he predicted Pine would know who Kahn was on a first name basis through a first time introduction in a movie preview voice over dialogue?
Also, if we ever get a new series, we will see about that collapsing Romulus. There's a reason why STO is deemed non-canon as well, in spite of CBS accepting Cryptic's money.
I don't care what corporations wish to pollute Gene's vision of a genuine utopia. Shots fired.
Thankfully DS9 did that and late TNG 'cos Genes utopia was bleeding boring. Who can honestly say they likes the first two series of TNG with a straight face?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
When something new comes out that is a usual result of few. JJ Trek was and is a war on trek ethos. It shows very little respect for Starfleets militaristic order, and makes the leaders perform and act like sports coaches. "I knew your father, here's the keys to our best starship", "Prime directive, what's that? Oh a stupid rule that nerds and squares (trekkies) believe in and following, and to look hip and edgy we're going to break the rules. " Kahn from jail says : darn that girls dad turned me in as soon as I gave magic cross tribble / human healing blood to my daughter thus eliminating all leverage I had...oh wait the dad still kills himself to leave his daughter alone with a guy that just told him to blow himself up..brilliant. Shall I go into the point where Pine gets told to fire unfueled torpedoes which Kahn some how predicted Pine wouldn't fire and thus figure out something was wrong...I guess he predicted that, just like he predicted Pine would know who Kahn was on a first name basis through a first time introduction in a movie preview voice over dialogue?
The same militaristic comments can be used towards TWOK. You should really stop acting like you speak for every fan. You don't like the new movies, big whooping deal. I never really cared for TOS and VOY or TWOK. The New Movie haters are some of the most narrow-minded, hypocritical, and act out in contradictory to what Star Trek actually stands for.You are not going to convince anyone to come to your side of the argument just as much as anyone will convince your close-mindedness to accept the newer movies.
The same militaristic comments can be used towards TWOK. You should really stop acting like you speak for every fan. You don't like the new movies, big whooping deal. I never really cared for TOS and VOY or TWOK. The New Movie haters are some of the most narrow-minded, hypocritical, and act out in contradictory to what Star Trek actually stands for.You are not going to convince anyone to come to your side of the argument just as much as anyone will convince your close-mindedness to accept the newer movies.
What does WOK have to do with what I said?
:rolleyes:
Thankfully DS9 did that and late TNG 'cos Genes utopia was bleeding boring. Who can honestly say they likes the first two series of TNG with a straight face?
I disagree, I think Ira,Ronald, and the rest gave it genuine visceral texture. I have always thought we must first get through our TOS to reach ENT to get to DS9 and it might end up like Voy, but hopefully TNG. I can imagine each as a stepping stone for humanities future. From Ham Fisted, to matured but still learning progress, to being matured and making progress, and then managing interspecies relations and understanding culture, to then being enlightened all around and making the journey for science or making the journey for the soul.
I disagree, I think Ira,Ronald, and the rest gave it genuine visceral texture. I have always thought we must first get through our TOS to reach ENT to get to DS9 and it might end up like Voy, but hopefully TNG. I can imagine each as a stepping stone for humanities future. From Ham Fisted, to matured but still learning progress, to being matured and making progress, and then managing interspecies relations and understanding culture, to then being enlightened all around and making the journey for science or making the journey for the soul.
Really? Well I'm of the opinion S1 / 2 TNG led to Wolf 359. Utopia will get you killed.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Also, if we ever get a new series, we will see about that collapsing Romulus. There's a reason why STO is deemed non-canon as well, in spite of CBS accepting Cryptic's money.
That's because STO is a video game. Films are canon, and so are the Spock scenes.
Really? Well I'm of the opinion S1 / 2 TNG led to Wolf 359. Utopia will get you killed.
You think a militaristized starfleet could have stopped the Borg? Unlikely, why? Federation of planets. No alliance no ships no tech no trust. Pretty much the mirror universe, conquer and destroy or annex.
You think a militaristized starfleet could have stopped the Borg? Unlikely, why? Federation of planets. No alliance no ships no tech no trust. Pretty much the mirror universe, conquer and destroy or annex.
Compare the battle of Sector 001 to Wolf 359. Much smaller fleet, newer made warships (Defiant, Akira, Norway, Sabre, and Steamrunner {and an Intrepid possibly}), heavily damaged cube, combined with the militaristic knowledge of the crews and Picards experience and you got a victory
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm looking forward to the last of the JJVerse movies when the Grand Nagus purchases Enterprise from the Federation and converts it into a Dabo casino. All the crew except Kirk and Spock accept a buy-out from the Ferengi. For some odd reason, both Kirk and Spock refuse the money and remain on the Enterprise, only to continue their arguing and running in the hallways.
A few years later, the much richer crew unexpectedly return for a reunion and chaos reigns. Kirk, growing more irritable by the minute, shouts, "You're all crazy!", then gets knocked out by a bar of Gold-Pressed Latinium.
In the final scene, Kirk wakes up in the middle of the Yosemite Forest with Spock and McCoy. He proceeds to explain the weird dream where the little Kelvin scout was the size of the large Constitution-class heavy cruiser, the Enterprise was built in the middle of a Iowa cornfield instead of the San Francisco Fleet Yards, and Kirk was promoted to Captain of the Enterprise directly from the Academy -- without having any real experience beyond getting into bar fights.
Thankfully DS9 did that and late TNG 'cos Genes utopia was bleeding boring. Who can honestly say they likes the first two series of TNG with a straight face?
The first two seasons of TNG were awful.
The problem with utopia is that it makes boring entertainment. Thats what Star Trek is, entertainment. Its not something that is going to change the world as we know it, its not the blueprint for a birght shiny future, its entertainment. Genes idea for utopia sounds good on paper, but it makes little sense on screen.
What Lock Box does that come in and how many Tac Consoles will it have?
It comes with the special console "Weakness to Younglings" which gives a 100% chance of you being blown-up whenever you come into contact with someone who's been playing for less than a month.
When something new comes out that is a usual result of few. JJ Trek was and is a war on trek ethos. It shows very little respect for Starfleets militaristic order, and makes the leaders perform and act like sports coaches. "I knew your father, here's the keys to our best starship", "Prime directive, what's that? Oh a stupid rule that nerds and squares (trekkies) believe in and following, and to look hip and edgy we're going to break the rules. " Kahn from jail says : darn that girls dad turned me in as soon as I gave magic cross tribble / human healing blood to my daughter thus eliminating all leverage I had...oh wait the dad still kills himself to leave his daughter alone with a guy that just told him to blow himself up..brilliant. Shall I go into the point where Pine gets told to fire unfueled torpedoes which Kahn some how predicted Pine wouldn't fire and thus figure out something was wrong...I guess he predicted that, just like he predicted Pine would know who Kahn was on a first name basis through a first time introduction in a movie preview voice over dialogue?
Sorry but if you are complaining about Kirk breaking rules...then really you have no leg to stand on...Kirk was known as a rule breaker...it's just in the JJ verse he gets called out for it.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I guess he predicted that, just like he predicted Pine would know who Kahn was on a first name basis through a first time introduction in a movie preview voice over dialogue?
Khan is an incredibly infamous figure from history, you say "Khan" to somebody in the Trek universe in the 21st century or later, they'll know instantly who you are talking about. The name has become synonymous with the man.
I'm sure you can think up examples of other figures from history you could bump into in similar circumstances and you'd know them instantly but I won't bother (I respect the golden rule of the internet).
Compare the battle of Sector 001 to Wolf 359. Much smaller fleet, newer made warships (Defiant, Akira, Norway, Sabre, and Steamrunner {and an Intrepid possibly}), heavily damaged cube, combined with the militaristic knowledge of the crews and Picards experience and you got a victory
We obviously were not watching the same movie. All the ships in 001 were losing and it wasn't Picard"experience " it was his connection to the Borg that allowed him to point out a vulnerability in the ship which was even objected to by Data himself deeming the target of no value. They were losing ships left and right before Picard arrived arrived. Combat knowledge no, assimilation knowledge yes. He heard the Borg, so he could point out the weakness. Hardly a tactical achievement to have that info. Chances are that sweet spot won't exist in the next battle.
They were losing ships left and right before Picard arrived arrived.
Chances are that sweet spot won't exist in the next battle.
I didn't say they weren't loosing, just that a bigger chunk of a smaller fleet was surviving and the cube was still heavily damaged, Picard ended the battle quickly, yes, but there was still a chance the fleet could have defeated the cube this time.
Yes they were, but at a lower rate than in 359, some ships took multiple hits before going down.
That next battle was on VOY, where one Intrepid took out a Tac Cube. (But feel free to ignore that, I know I will).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Khan is an incredibly infamous figure from history, you say "Khan" to somebody in the Trek universe in the 21st century or later, they'll know instantly who you are talking about. The name has become synonymous with the man.
I'm sure you can think up examples of other figures from history you could bump into in similar circumstances and you'd know them instantly but I won't bother (I respect the golden rule of the internet).
Kahn said his appearance was surgically modified. No one would have any clue who this guy was. Just like every Osama is not a binladen, and every Saddam is not a Hussein. Kirks first reply should have been, who?
Genghis Kahn? The Mongol? Shere Kahn? The tiger from the jungle book? Shaka Kahn the MTV VJ? Shall Kahn the Mortal Kombat boss?
Kahn said his appearance was surgically modified. No one would have any clue who this guy was. Just like every Osama is not a binladen, and every Saddam is not a Hussein. Kirks first reply should have been, who?
Genghis Kahn? The Mongol? Shere Kahn? The tiger from the jungle book? Shaka Kahn the MTV VJ? Shall Kahn the Mortal Kombat boss?
As I said though, the name has become synonymous with the man, he just needs to say "I'm Khan" and they know instantly who he is talking about (obviously you would question whether it was true or not, but he'd know who he was talking about).
I really don't want to resort to making the comparison to the WWII German leader who Khan has been compared to in the show out of respect for internet etiquette, but that is exactly what we are looking at. If it was that man declaring who he was, you'd know instantly who it was, you wouldn't believe him, but you'd know who he was claiming to be, mainly because nobody would dare associate themselves with the name in the time afterwards. That's the situation in the Star Trek universe. Everyone knows who "Khan" is, because there is only one man anyone would even think of when that name is uttered.
Doesn't really matter, I've now lost the argument for making the comparison, but hopefully my point has gotten across.
I just went back and looked at the scene...Kirk does not recognize the name Khan...and before he says his name Cumberbatch gives him a brief history of himself and his crew and Admiral Marcus.
Spock doesn't recognize the name either...which is why he goes and asks Prime Spock about him.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I didn't say they weren't loosing, just that a bigger chunk of a smaller fleet was surviving and the cube was still heavily damaged, Picard ended the battle quickly, yes, but there was still a chance the fleet could have defeated the cube this time.
Yes they were, but at a lower rate than in 359, some ships took multiple hits before going down.
That next battle was on VOY, where one Intrepid took out a Tac Cube. (But feel free to ignore that, I know I will).
Structural damage sure. But the flag ships were going down. The lead ship was dead. The defiant was crippled, and there was zero indications of progress. Hell even Sisko lost the Lexington twice * snicker snicker* Who knows what kind of force they had to stop the Borg in an initial assault? If its anything like a dominion wars style battle fleet, they got their butts kicked down to small numbers. (I know movie plot story etc) I am just saying the facts as I saw them.
I just went back and looked at the scene...Kirk does not recognize the name Khan...and before he says his name Cumberbatch gives him a brief history of himself and his crew and Admiral Marcus.
Spock doesn't recognize the name either...which is why he goes and asks Prime Spock about him.
Spock is a half-Vulcan who grew up on Vulcan, even if he did spend some time on Earth at the academy he may not have learned of the Eugenics War.
Comments
I give Gene credit for creating this universe but I believe Paramount and the execs kept him from George Lucas'ing his work.
He wanted to declare TOS invalid in favor of TNG
all the movies that he hated are the ones I love...WOK and Undiscovered Country.
The JJ-verse will be just like TNG...hated by fans at first but then they came around
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
For every Jj trek fan, there are 5 that are not. From pretty much every complete die hard trek related media format, almost everyone hate its portrayal of Trek. Take your pick. New age trek stories aren't hip or edgy because they can make Spock act like an emo rage monster or Kirk a cliche version of a 60's Shatner. The only good non-parody portrayal of a person in starfleet who has characteristics of the TOS crew was Karl Urban. Everyone else is shouting as loud as they can, dropping obnoxious jokes for movie theater audience approval.
Actors were fine, fx fine, story was an abomination. The whole 9/11 Iraq war so called Easter egg in STID was not only poorly executed, and was not a highlight of better choices, but a tool for greater polarization of the community through political messages. Not even on par with the Cold War theme of previous movies. Bob admitted he made mistakes, one of those mistakes made their way into an editorial over a Trekmovie article that took JJ trek apart with surgical precision. Much like Plinkett, Cinema sins and Honest Trailers.
I like STO because the Devs feel the same. It's why Beasty Boys isn't played on ESD.
If there were message boards when TNG came out I guarantee it would have said the same things. People generally hated TNG. I remember being at conventions and hearing quite a few people hating on it.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I hear constant attempts to compare quality classics to the microwaved modern media. The arguments just don't stand the test of time. Nothing about JJ Trek is profound or memorable, or enlightening, or made you connect with the spirit of exploration. If there were forums your first argument could not be the acting, the fx, or the themes. The worst you complain about is that it is boring, not that it doesn't reflect trek.
The fans hated TNG when it came out. ...and a lot of people claimed it wasn't trek...
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
When something new comes out that is a usual result of few. JJ Trek was and is a war on trek ethos. It shows very little respect for Starfleets militaristic order, and makes the leaders perform and act like sports coaches. "I knew your father, here's the keys to our best starship", "Prime directive, what's that? Oh a stupid rule that nerds and squares (trekkies) believe in and following, and to look hip and edgy we're going to break the rules. " Kahn from jail says : darn that girls dad turned me in as soon as I gave magic cross tribble / human healing blood to my daughter thus eliminating all leverage I had...oh wait the dad still kills himself to leave his daughter alone with a guy that just told him to blow himself up..brilliant. Shall I go into the point where Pine gets told to fire unfueled torpedoes which Kahn some how predicted Pine wouldn't fire and thus figure out something was wrong...I guess he predicted that, just like he predicted Pine would know who Kahn was on a first name basis through a first time introduction in a movie preview voice over dialogue?
I've never said it wasn't canon.
Also, if we ever get a new series, we will see about that collapsing Romulus. There's a reason why STO is deemed non-canon as well, in spite of CBS accepting Cryptic's money.
Thankfully DS9 did that and late TNG 'cos Genes utopia was bleeding boring. Who can honestly say they likes the first two series of TNG with a straight face?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The same militaristic comments can be used towards TWOK. You should really stop acting like you speak for every fan. You don't like the new movies, big whooping deal. I never really cared for TOS and VOY or TWOK. The New Movie haters are some of the most narrow-minded, hypocritical, and act out in contradictory to what Star Trek actually stands for.You are not going to convince anyone to come to your side of the argument just as much as anyone will convince your close-mindedness to accept the newer movies.
What does WOK have to do with what I said?
:rolleyes:
I disagree, I think Ira,Ronald, and the rest gave it genuine visceral texture. I have always thought we must first get through our TOS to reach ENT to get to DS9 and it might end up like Voy, but hopefully TNG. I can imagine each as a stepping stone for humanities future. From Ham Fisted, to matured but still learning progress, to being matured and making progress, and then managing interspecies relations and understanding culture, to then being enlightened all around and making the journey for science or making the journey for the soul.
Really? Well I'm of the opinion S1 / 2 TNG led to Wolf 359. Utopia will get you killed.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
That's because STO is a video game. Films are canon, and so are the Spock scenes.
You think a militaristized starfleet could have stopped the Borg? Unlikely, why? Federation of planets. No alliance no ships no tech no trust. Pretty much the mirror universe, conquer and destroy or annex.
Corporate Canon < Head Canon
Compare the battle of Sector 001 to Wolf 359. Much smaller fleet, newer made warships (Defiant, Akira, Norway, Sabre, and Steamrunner {and an Intrepid possibly}), heavily damaged cube, combined with the militaristic knowledge of the crews and Picards experience and you got a victory
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
A few years later, the much richer crew unexpectedly return for a reunion and chaos reigns. Kirk, growing more irritable by the minute, shouts, "You're all crazy!", then gets knocked out by a bar of Gold-Pressed Latinium.
In the final scene, Kirk wakes up in the middle of the Yosemite Forest with Spock and McCoy. He proceeds to explain the weird dream where the little Kelvin scout was the size of the large Constitution-class heavy cruiser, the Enterprise was built in the middle of a Iowa cornfield instead of the San Francisco Fleet Yards, and Kirk was promoted to Captain of the Enterprise directly from the Academy -- without having any real experience beyond getting into bar fights.
The first two seasons of TNG were awful.
The problem with utopia is that it makes boring entertainment. Thats what Star Trek is, entertainment. Its not something that is going to change the world as we know it, its not the blueprint for a birght shiny future, its entertainment. Genes idea for utopia sounds good on paper, but it makes little sense on screen.
Or taken over by little space crayfish...
It comes with the special console "Weakness to Younglings" which gives a 100% chance of you being blown-up whenever you come into contact with someone who's been playing for less than a month.
Sorry but if you are complaining about Kirk breaking rules...then really you have no leg to stand on...Kirk was known as a rule breaker...it's just in the JJ verse he gets called out for it.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Khan is an incredibly infamous figure from history, you say "Khan" to somebody in the Trek universe in the 21st century or later, they'll know instantly who you are talking about. The name has become synonymous with the man.
I'm sure you can think up examples of other figures from history you could bump into in similar circumstances and you'd know them instantly but I won't bother (I respect the golden rule of the internet).
We obviously were not watching the same movie. All the ships in 001 were losing and it wasn't Picard"experience " it was his connection to the Borg that allowed him to point out a vulnerability in the ship which was even objected to by Data himself deeming the target of no value. They were losing ships left and right before Picard arrived arrived. Combat knowledge no, assimilation knowledge yes. He heard the Borg, so he could point out the weakness. Hardly a tactical achievement to have that info. Chances are that sweet spot won't exist in the next battle.
I didn't say they weren't loosing, just that a bigger chunk of a smaller fleet was surviving and the cube was still heavily damaged, Picard ended the battle quickly, yes, but there was still a chance the fleet could have defeated the cube this time.
Yes they were, but at a lower rate than in 359, some ships took multiple hits before going down.
That next battle was on VOY, where one Intrepid took out a Tac Cube. (But feel free to ignore that, I know I will).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Kahn said his appearance was surgically modified. No one would have any clue who this guy was. Just like every Osama is not a binladen, and every Saddam is not a Hussein. Kirks first reply should have been, who?
Genghis Kahn? The Mongol? Shere Kahn? The tiger from the jungle book? Shaka Kahn the MTV VJ? Shall Kahn the Mortal Kombat boss?
As I said though, the name has become synonymous with the man, he just needs to say "I'm Khan" and they know instantly who he is talking about (obviously you would question whether it was true or not, but he'd know who he was talking about).
I really don't want to resort to making the comparison to the WWII German leader who Khan has been compared to in the show out of respect for internet etiquette, but that is exactly what we are looking at. If it was that man declaring who he was, you'd know instantly who it was, you wouldn't believe him, but you'd know who he was claiming to be, mainly because nobody would dare associate themselves with the name in the time afterwards. That's the situation in the Star Trek universe. Everyone knows who "Khan" is, because there is only one man anyone would even think of when that name is uttered.
Doesn't really matter, I've now lost the argument for making the comparison, but hopefully my point has gotten across.
Spock doesn't recognize the name either...which is why he goes and asks Prime Spock about him.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Structural damage sure. But the flag ships were going down. The lead ship was dead. The defiant was crippled, and there was zero indications of progress. Hell even Sisko lost the Lexington twice * snicker snicker* Who knows what kind of force they had to stop the Borg in an initial assault? If its anything like a dominion wars style battle fleet, they got their butts kicked down to small numbers. (I know movie plot story etc) I am just saying the facts as I saw them.
Spock is a half-Vulcan who grew up on Vulcan, even if he did spend some time on Earth at the academy he may not have learned of the Eugenics War.