I concur with mustrumridcully0. If they wish to provide the crew a view of outer-space - less the structural weaknesses that are windows - then they can just use holography to project a view of space within crew quarters, lounges and conference rooms.
Heck, the Eclipse does not have a visible bridge. I know one of my fleetmates Yuzral would approve, because dorsally-mounted bridge were a blatant weakpoint.
Also, we draw inspirations from many things, and modern design is one of them. Right now, following the lines of stealth-planes and lamborghini cars is the source of design cues... and honestly, I model spaceships and it's the same for me. It's not a question of what would be truly futuristic becase - hey - we actually have no idea how things will be in 3 centuries. All we have to go on is the art of today.
So, in general, I frown on nitpicking just for the sake of nitpicking. I actually very much doubt anyone here could actually design a stealth-variant shape language much better. And people are being waaay too hung up on ships which are admitted to be the exception to the rule.
indeed! the designers are going for a feel and look that suits the roll, rather than trying to
just modify an exhisting model. this whole intel setup is almost a slap in the face to the
Federations 'Official' ideals and methods. it is almost as if the extreme change in design, is
a way of purposefully distancing them. some will love them and some will hate them, but then
that is the way of any and all designs. also, as a side note, the lack of windows is a total non
issue, there really is no actual justification for them, as view screens can fill that roll. if anything
windows are just a habitual hangover from the original series. i'll try and find a link to a recent
luxury passenger jets being developed with no cabin windows, just full cabin length view screens
running along on both sides.
Doesn't matter how many ways you try to justify it. The only one in the bunch that looks remotely like a Starfleet ship is the Guardian-class. And maybe that bastardized Defiant-looking thing.
That Rom battlecruiser, on the other hand, that thing's shmexy.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Both the TOS bridge and fleet spire maps have shutters that will cover up the windows so good game on that one
(not that the story wasn't bs before that, dating back to the 1960s romulan tos ship with cloak and windows)
In fact since we are talking voyager remember that time they had to go through dark space that was exactly like having no windows on the ship?
The captain fell into depression so arguably star ships HAVE TO HAVE windows according to lore.
Additionally the tiny chinese girl on "enterprise" once asked to switch cabin because "the stars were going the wrong way"...
SO
again... a view screen does the same thing as a window, and i dont mean created or
repeated images. if its good enough for the bridge its more than good enough for a
quarter or mess hall etc. the depression was caused, as the crew had no perception
of moving through space relative to time, and you cant fool the brain with fake images.
if, however, you know the image you are seeing is real and relative to your location,
movement and time, then the brain can accept it.
Sensors aren't magical uber devices that just use nothing to find things, they project some form of energy to detect things similar to sonar or radar but with far more detail.
You're thinking far too 20th century. You're limited to 2D thought patterns in a 4D world.
The sensors in the advanced world of ST (and more advanced world of STO) use such things as quantum mechanics and sub-space tunneling.
There is no distance to cover. There is no bouncing of signals -- which in and of itself is infantile for Star Trek technology.
The sensor apparatus on a starship could focus highly detailed instruments on atoms and molecules.... about an inch from the machine. Theoretically you can quantum-link the atom there with the atoms across space and instantly be able to scan relationships between the two, never having to ever traverse the difference. We are seeing some research even NOW, TODAY, in this field of quantum linkage. In ST's time? Probably old-school stuff.
More than likely it uses sub-space to bypass space entirely (that's what subspace is, a magical construct ST created to have faster-than-light, real-time, communciations and sensors with objects so far away you'd get a time delay even at the speed of light). Again, nothing to bounce, nothing to send, it would be like using a miniature wormhole to detect information about a target.
In no way does making a ship "flat" diminish radar returns in ST environments. It's just 2D thinking in a 4D world to imagine that.
You're thinking far too 20th century. You're limited to 2D thought patterns in a 4D world.
The sensors in the advanced world of ST (and more advanced world of STO) use such things as quantum mechanics and sub-space tunneling.
There is no distance to cover. There is no bouncing of signals -- which in and of itself is infantile for Star Trek technology.
The sensor apparatus on a starship could focus highly detailed instruments on atoms and molecules.... about an inch from the machine. Theoretically you can quantum-link the atom there with the atoms across space and instantly be able to scan relationships between the two, never having to ever traverse the difference. We are seeing some research even NOW, TODAY, in this field of quantum linkage. In ST's time? Probably old-school stuff.
More than likely it uses sub-space to bypass space entirely (that's what subspace is, a magical construct ST created to have faster-than-light, real-time, communciations and sensors with objects so far away you'd get a time delay even at the speed of light). Again, nothing to bounce, nothing to send, it would be like using a miniature wormhole to detect information about a target.
In no way does making a ship "flat" diminish radar returns in ST environments. It's just 2D thinking in a 4D world to imagine that.
THere was never an implication in Startrek that this is how Starship sensors actually work.
And even if it was...
1) YOu still don't want to show up with more conventional sensors
2) There could still be special materials that could protect against this, because it's in the end all space magic. (Because Quantum Entanglement and Quantum Tunnelling doesn't work in thhe way you need it to work for the kind of sensor technology you describe. At least not within the realms of our current understanding of them, and if you leave that realm to explain your fantastic sensors, so can the defenses against such sensors....)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
a view screen does
depression as the crew had no perception
of moving through space relative to time, and you cant fool the brain with fake images.
First, zero emperical lore to back any of that up. Second, it's got more holes that a swiss chesse.
Your speculation fantasy is arguing against itself. Obviously the developer with all them poor excuses for the design took the same lore course you did lmao
Uhm yeah, stealth in star trek has everything to do with lights in the windows it's a dead giveaway in a high tech society that you aren't a dust cloud - where y'all been
What are we back to the indians and camp fires here
/edit.
HEY! that f... dust cloud has windows, shoot it !!!1"
First, zero emperical lore to back any of that up. Second, it's got more holes that a swiss chesse.
Your speculation fantasy is arguing against itself. Obviously the developer with all them poor excuses for the design took the same lore course you did lmao
Uhm yeah, stealth in star trek has everything to do with lights in the windows it's a dead giveaway in a high tech society that you aren't a dust cloud - where y'all been
What are we back to the indians and camp fires here
/edit.
HEY! that f... dust cloud has windows, shoot it !!!1"
lore is something that is created or recognised because it is believed or agreed upon.
maybe you meant data, the age old collection of information and values, gained from
experimentation across a wide, varied range of test subjects, methodically processed
to provide a solid basis of understanding in a particular field or subject matter, Science,
maybe you've heard of it? i also like the way you have just copied certain parts of my
post, pretty much removing any context it had in its orignal form. spacial awareness is
not some made up expression, nor are the details regarding how the brain inteprets the
world around us and the neccessity for the brain to believe the info it is receiving. time
and its passing are also part of this, hence the depression and anxiety which would be
experienced moving through dead space, with no sense of movement. simple example
of how these things can effect us is motion sickness, your body experiences motion but
cant match it up to the visual or auditory information, so you feel sick. as for the design
of the new intel ships, they look as they do as that is what most people would associate
with a stealthy design, if they wanted to give us a futeristicaly real visual, we wouldnt
actually see our ships. bit like when we stealth at present, we see a glassy style outline,
why, so we can see were we are relative to everything else.. ooh, spacial awareness again.
*edit
and again, we dont need windows if the screen is providing the same live information and
visuals we would recieve if it was a window instead. as long as it can provide a good level
of depth, and im guessing thats not going to be a problem as we can already do that with
current technology
Comments
indeed! the designers are going for a feel and look that suits the roll, rather than trying to
just modify an exhisting model. this whole intel setup is almost a slap in the face to the
Federations 'Official' ideals and methods. it is almost as if the extreme change in design, is
a way of purposefully distancing them. some will love them and some will hate them, but then
that is the way of any and all designs. also, as a side note, the lack of windows is a total non
issue, there really is no actual justification for them, as view screens can fill that roll. if anything
windows are just a habitual hangover from the original series. i'll try and find a link to a recent
luxury passenger jets being developed with no cabin windows, just full cabin length view screens
running along on both sides.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/travel/27598/would-you-fly-in-a-plane-without-windows.html
That Rom battlecruiser, on the other hand, that thing's shmexy.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Both the TOS bridge and fleet spire maps have shutters that will cover up the windows so good game on that one
(not that the story wasn't bs before that, dating back to the 1960s romulan tos ship with cloak and windows)
In fact since we are talking voyager remember that time they had to go through dark space that was exactly like having no windows on the ship?
The captain fell into depression so arguably star ships HAVE TO HAVE windows according to lore.
Additionally the tiny chinese girl on "enterprise" once asked to switch cabin because "the stars were going the wrong way"...
SO
again... a view screen does the same thing as a window, and i dont mean created or
repeated images. if its good enough for the bridge its more than good enough for a
quarter or mess hall etc. the depression was caused, as the crew had no perception
of moving through space relative to time, and you cant fool the brain with fake images.
if, however, you know the image you are seeing is real and relative to your location,
movement and time, then the brain can accept it.
i take things so literally, was thinking chinese girl, hmmm something doesnt compute.
that would have played on my mind all day, thanks for that lol
And Linda Park is Korean. Double fail.
I think he meant the original poster double failed because he got neither the character's nor the actor's origin right.
Precisely this ^^^
You're thinking far too 20th century. You're limited to 2D thought patterns in a 4D world.
The sensors in the advanced world of ST (and more advanced world of STO) use such things as quantum mechanics and sub-space tunneling.
There is no distance to cover. There is no bouncing of signals -- which in and of itself is infantile for Star Trek technology.
The sensor apparatus on a starship could focus highly detailed instruments on atoms and molecules.... about an inch from the machine. Theoretically you can quantum-link the atom there with the atoms across space and instantly be able to scan relationships between the two, never having to ever traverse the difference. We are seeing some research even NOW, TODAY, in this field of quantum linkage. In ST's time? Probably old-school stuff.
More than likely it uses sub-space to bypass space entirely (that's what subspace is, a magical construct ST created to have faster-than-light, real-time, communciations and sensors with objects so far away you'd get a time delay even at the speed of light). Again, nothing to bounce, nothing to send, it would be like using a miniature wormhole to detect information about a target.
In no way does making a ship "flat" diminish radar returns in ST environments. It's just 2D thinking in a 4D world to imagine that.
THere was never an implication in Startrek that this is how Starship sensors actually work.
And even if it was...
1) YOu still don't want to show up with more conventional sensors
2) There could still be special materials that could protect against this, because it's in the end all space magic. (Because Quantum Entanglement and Quantum Tunnelling doesn't work in thhe way you need it to work for the kind of sensor technology you describe. At least not within the realms of our current understanding of them, and if you leave that realm to explain your fantastic sensors, so can the defenses against such sensors....)
First, zero emperical lore to back any of that up. Second, it's got more holes that a swiss chesse.
Your speculation fantasy is arguing against itself. Obviously the developer with all them poor excuses for the design took the same lore course you did lmao
Uhm yeah, stealth in star trek has everything to do with lights in the windows it's a dead giveaway in a high tech society that you aren't a dust cloud - where y'all been
What are we back to the indians and camp fires here
/edit.
HEY! that f... dust cloud has windows, shoot it !!!1"
lore is something that is created or recognised because it is believed or agreed upon.
maybe you meant data, the age old collection of information and values, gained from
experimentation across a wide, varied range of test subjects, methodically processed
to provide a solid basis of understanding in a particular field or subject matter, Science,
maybe you've heard of it? i also like the way you have just copied certain parts of my
post, pretty much removing any context it had in its orignal form. spacial awareness is
not some made up expression, nor are the details regarding how the brain inteprets the
world around us and the neccessity for the brain to believe the info it is receiving. time
and its passing are also part of this, hence the depression and anxiety which would be
experienced moving through dead space, with no sense of movement. simple example
of how these things can effect us is motion sickness, your body experiences motion but
cant match it up to the visual or auditory information, so you feel sick. as for the design
of the new intel ships, they look as they do as that is what most people would associate
with a stealthy design, if they wanted to give us a futeristicaly real visual, we wouldnt
actually see our ships. bit like when we stealth at present, we see a glassy style outline,
why, so we can see were we are relative to everything else.. ooh, spacial awareness again.
*edit
and again, we dont need windows if the screen is providing the same live information and
visuals we would recieve if it was a window instead. as long as it can provide a good level
of depth, and im guessing thats not going to be a problem as we can already do that with
current technology