I appreciate all the effort but, taking design inspiration from 4-500 yr old "crude stealth designs" is ludicrous.
I'm sure that SOME elements of "stealth" remain constant, but seriously? There is no way designs from today are still going to be relevant 4-500 years from now.
Given the sophistication of ST sensors that can sense astoundingly vast quantities of information from light years away, there is no way that modern stealth physical design is going to still be effective or relevant.
As stated I appreciate the effort and am looking forward to the new ships. abilities and areas to play in but the design inspiration for these new vessels is completely ludicrous and off base.
Yeah. Plus when you get into game mechanics, a stealth ship 'look' isn't going to mean much when the game puts a damn target box around it! :rolleyes:
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
to the concept artist. GO WORK FOR ANOTHER GAME! Your designs do not fit this universe.
Better idea. Quit designing ships for the ungrateful feds and spend your time on more KDF ships!
On the note of the Fed ships. I like them, they look pretty decent. Though the sci ship saucer part makes me think of a chakram. Not that bad of a look tbh.
Why would you play the game if you have that kind of anger towards the game and dev team?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I really appreciate that the dev explanes us the backstory behind his design.
Well i still not get warm with it. I dont think i will get one of these.
But anyway it maybe not my taste but others maybe like it.
The question for me will be the states of the new ship, as long as the somehow balanced with the upgraded ship, i will not have a problem with them at all and keep playing my upgraded ship.
It was never illegal to go sneaking around as Starfleet has sent their officers on sneaking mission on quite a few occasions. It was only illegal to use a cloak. Until recently.
But then again that didn't mean Starfleet didn't have cloak technology as evidenced by the cloaked lab and personal cloaks in Star Trek: Insurrection...which featured Starfleet 'sneaking around'.
However the one constant about Star Trek is that things change
Yeah, well... The (pre-Destiny) books and more than one source beyond them tried to retcon the Enterprise Incident, everything Dougherty did in Insurrection, the conspiracy in ST VI: The Undiscovered Country, and most of the shadier stuff as being Section 31 plots that the REAL Starfleet Intelligence would be too clean to condone.
It's not that everyone needs to have perfect scruples and individuals fall short but Starfleet as an organization basically does need to be the lawful good, paladin-with-his-hands-tied of the franchise.
I still think the ideal way to structure a Trek MMO would be:
Everyone is allied.
Missions are never assigned by superiors but are instead issued by distress calls, with a focus on the situation rather than the orders.
Treat faction as MMO class/profession with meaningful class distinctions in terms of gameplay. For example, Starfleet can't use exploit attacks on an exposed target but perhaps gets weapon specializations. If you want a "dirty" version of Starfleet, you introduce a Section 31 class but they have different kits and perhaps lack advantages that Starfleet gets.
So Starfleet is a CLASS. Tac/Sci/Eng are specs. Klingon is a CLASS. Maybe... Monk/Soldier/Warrior are specs. Section 31 is a class. Romulan is a class. Etc.
Each class has a distinctive resource system like you have in conventional MMOs. I think the closest STO gets is singularity powers in space but I think you need a ground resource system and maybe this should also boost and regulate captain space powers.
So, for example, Klingon abilities might be fueled by Honor which, say, increases as YOUR health decreases and receives a multiplier bonus based on how superior your target is, how close your target is, with a large boost when you defeat an enemy or when an ally is killed. So as a Klingon? You take damage to deal damage. You want to attack the biggest and baddest enemy you can. You are fueled by the rush of victory and spurred by the loss of allies.
Starfleet abilities might be fueled by Discipline. The Discipline bar begins full and decreases over time. But it is replenished by firing on an enemy that a teammate is firing on. It gets a major boost when you heal or buff a teammate. It recovers rapidly when you crouch but this is interrupted if you take damage. Critical strikes for Federation deal less damage but replenish Discipline. Rapid weapons drain Discipline at a disproportionately lower rate and Damage Over Time, sniper, and burst weapons drain Discipline at a higher rate, making hand phasers and pistols a superior option and less "clean" weapons more taxing.
Get the general idea? The resource system would encourage themed behaviors and if you want a different behavior, you would want to play a different class.
who do you think has more agents in starfleet section 31 or the undine?
Hehe. I am now reminded of the roleplaying game "Torg" and its Nippontech realm.
There, every 10th person was a spy/traitor. Which means that every 100th person was a traitor-traitor.
So, how many Undine are part of Section 31?
And do any Section 31 members pose as Undine posing as Section 31 member posing as Starfleet Intelligence Officer?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Hehe. I am now reminded of the roleplaying game "Torg" and its Nippontech realm.
There, every 10th person was a spy/traitor. Which means that every 100th person was a traitor-traitor.
So, how many Undine are part of Section 31?
And do any Section 31 members pose as Undine posing as Section 31 member posing as Starfleet Intelligence Officer?
This almost demands a Foundry mission.
Changelings posing as Undine posing as Section 31 agents posing as Starfleet officers posing as Tal Shiar infiltrating the Klingon Empire who get surgically reassigned to pose as Starfleet Officers who get assigned to pose as Klingons working with Romulans and who must kill Undine to keep their cover up in order to maintain their cover for the sake of the Dominion.
Flying Dominion ships sold to them by Ferengi who are secretly Tal Shiar who are secretly Section 31 who are really Undine.
Meanwhile, you have a crew of Jem'Hadar aboard who are secretly holograms created by Section 31 who was duped into making them by a rogue Starfleet Admiral who is secretly a Tal Shiar plant who is secretly an Undine.
And they dock at a station that looks like a starbase but is actually a Transformer.
The Scryer is not a Luna, nor is the Eclipse a Cheyanne. They are different scales, proportions, sizes -- not refits of classic vessels.
Classic materials will be available, but any variant geometry parts will retain the Intel look.
Dammit, I wanted an intelligence cruiser that looks like a poor, weak, outdated support ship (Constellation) so much.:(
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Hehe. I am now reminded of the roleplaying game "Torg" and its Nippontech realm.
There, every 10th person was a spy/traitor. Which means that every 100th person was a traitor-traitor.
So, how many Undine are part of Section 31?
And do any Section 31 members pose as Undine posing as Section 31 member posing as Starfleet Intelligence Officer?
Well thats something I pointed out a long time ago, Undine in Section 31 and or Starfleet Intelligence would explain Starfleets Unwillingness to take the threat seriously for so long
Needless to say Section 31 fanboys did not like that idea
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Changelings posing as Undine posing as Section 31 agents posing as Starfleet officers posing as Tal Shiar infiltrating the Klingon Empire who get surgically reassigned to pose as Starfleet Officers who get assigned to pose as Klingons working with Romulans and who must kill Undine to keep their cover up in order to maintain their cover for the sake of the Dominion.
Flying Dominion ships sold to them by Ferengi who are secretly Tal Shiar who are secretly Section 31 who are really Undine.
Meanwhile, you have a crew of Jem'Hadar aboard who are secretly holograms created by Section 31 who was duped into making them by a rogue Starfleet Admiral who is secretly a Tal Shiar plant who is secretly an Undine.
And they dock at a station that looks like a starbase but is actually a Transformer.
Changelings posing as Undine posing as Section 31 agents posing as Starfleet officers posing as Tal Shiar infiltrating the Klingon Empire who get surgically reassigned to pose as Starfleet Officers who get assigned to pose as Klingons working with Romulans and who must kill Undine to keep their cover up in order to maintain their cover for the sake of the Dominion.
Flying Dominion ships sold to them by Ferengi who are secretly Tal Shiar who are secretly Section 31 who are really Undine.
Meanwhile, you have a crew of Jem'Hadar aboard who are secretly holograms created by Section 31 who was duped into making them by a rogue Starfleet Admiral who is secretly a Tal Shiar plant who is secretly an Undine.
And they dock at a station that looks like a starbase but is actually a Transformer.
Another Changling probably poses as Undine posing as Romulan posing as Vulcan Engineer for the new Intelligence Ship program.
Note: The Changling in my story was once send out by the Founders, but due to a wormhole incident traveled back in time and landed in the Andromeda galaxy, where he founded a new link.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Well thats something I pointed out a long time ago, Undine in Section 31 and or Starfleet Intelligence would explain Starfleets Unwillingness to take the threat seriously for so long
Needless to say Section 31 fanboys did not like that idea
We should probably assume that S31 has the most intense genetic/bio-screening process in all of Starfleet. If any organization has the chance to be Undine free I would put my money on them. Heck, they are probably behind the whole Undine infiltration throughout the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
We should probably assume that S31 has the most intense genetic/bio-screening process in all of Starfleet. If any organization has the chance to be Undine free I would put my money on them. Heck, they are probably behind the whole Undine infiltration throughout the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
Does it though? If as I suspect they would work in Independent Cells with limited Knowledge of each other, I very much doubt theres a regular Meeting of all the Agents, and An infiltrator assuming the Identity of an active field operative for Section 31 could do a lot of damage before whilst they are out and about in the Quadrant before they have to be recalled to their base of operations, or safe house
Another question worth asking, What about those other Infiltrators we saw before, the ones who had Starfleet Command under their control at one point.
Could they have infiltrated Section 31 also?
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
It's been said, that a good design doesn't need any explantion.
But when I read all this attempts to explain from the art department, well there isn't any good design in this recently uncovered T6 Intel monstrosities imho.
I've got absolutely zero desire to own one of these ships.
I strongly hope that these aren't the only T6 ships they will bring at launch, or at least shortly after launch to Delta Rising.
Does it though? If as I suspect they would work in Independent Cells with limited Knowledge of each other, I very much doubt theres a regular Meeting of all the Agents, and An infiltrator assuming the Identity of an active field operative for Section 31 could do a lot of damage before whilst they are out and about in the Quadrant before they have to be recalled to their base of operations, or safe house
The thing to keep in mind that is not really touched on, due to Trek being science-fantasy rather then science fiction, is that Transporters scan and disassemble you at the atomic level. So every atom in your body is scanned, recognized, stored, transmitted, reassembled, and then scanned again before completing the process. Any genetic anomaly would immediately be recognized in the scan process because it has to reassemble you. So if the organ in your body that controls shapeshifting is larger then an atom it would be immediately detected by the scanner. But it is a TV show and they really do not put much science logic into what they do. It all just happens due to magic.
Another question worth asking, What about those other Infiltrators we saw before, the ones who had Starfleet Command under their control at one point.
Could they have infiltrated Section 31 also?
Hard to say. Section 31 was created several years after those parasites. But again, the transporter, alone, would have recognizes the parasite inside of those SF Command admirals. You really need to keep your logic blinders in place when watching Trek.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
The thing to keep in mind that is not really touched on, due to Trek being science-fantasy rather then science fiction, is that Transporters scan and disassemble you at the atomic level. So every atom in your body is scanned, recognized, stored, transmitted, reassembled, and then scanned again before completing the process. Any genetic anomaly would immediately be recognized in the scan process because it has to reassemble you. So if the organ in your body that controls shapeshifting is larger then an atom it would be immediately detected by the scanner. But it is a TV show and they really do not put much science logic into what they do. It all just happens due to magic.
Hard to say. Section 31 was created several years after those parasites. But again, the transporter, alone, would have recognizes the parasite inside of those SF Command admirals. You really need to keep your logic blinders in place when watching Trek.
Transporter biofilters seem to primarily scan for known threats though. What you're saying makes sense, but.... apparently it doesn't actually do that. I doesn't make sense to me either. Transporters can accidentally do stupid stuff like Tuvix... (one of the worst episodes ever) and de-aging Picard.... But certain more useful things? no.
Meh, it's a McGuffin and McGuffins are inconsistent.
The thing to keep in mind that is not really touched on, due to Trek being science-fantasy rather then science fiction, is that Transporters scan and disassemble you at the atomic level. So every atom in your body is scanned, recognized, stored, transmitted, reassembled, and then scanned again before completing the process. Any genetic anomaly would immediately be recognized in the scan process because it has to reassemble you. So if the organ in your body that controls shapeshifting is larger then an atom it would be immediately detected by the scanner. But it is a TV show and they really do not put much science logic into what they do. It all just happens due to magic.
Hard to say. Section 31 was created several years after those parasites. But again, the transporter, alone, would have recognizes the parasite inside of those SF Command admirals. You really need to keep your logic blinders in place when watching Trek.
Well Cryptic should pay attention to that, since the Klingons beamed up an Undine and didn;t seem to notice
And with the second point Well theres been Section 31 in the timeline since ENT, Harris and Reed where operatives, A retcon I know so the writers at the time of the TNG episode wouldn;t have thought of it.
Seems plausible to me though
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
I love the look of the Phantom and Scryer. I cannot wait for the Bundle to hit the C-store so I can buy it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Any sensors that aren't complete handwavium are going to be based on one of three core concepts:
1: Detect particle/wave emissions from the target (e.g. heat signatures)
2: Detect target's interaction with a field in space (e.g. target moves through a planet or star's magnetic or gravitational field)
3: Bounce particles/waves off of the target and analyze the return (radar-like--most active scans)
Now, the basic principles of having as-low-as-possible energy emissions (or directing emissions in specific directions--e.g. dumping nearly all of your heat through the engine exhaust) is not going to change no matter what the technology level--though cloaking graviton emissions is going to take extreme finesse with generating exactly enough anti-gravitons to cancel your own ship's mass.
Also, making your ship as non-reflective as possible to whatever your opponent is scanning you with (electromagnetic waves of whatever part of the spectrum from radio to X-ray, or particle beams, or whatnot) is likewise not going to change--only the methods of rendering it non-reflective will change. Absorbing as much of as many wavelengths and particle types as possible instead of reflecting them will help (i.e. you are "black" all over), and angled rather than rounded surfaces (to make sure that you will only reflect a beam directly back to its source when the beam hits you perfectly "flat-on") will aid in this.
This is so true. But, keep in mind the following:
1. Since ToS, deflector screens alone pretty much handle most of the "standard EM detectors", "Assignment Earth" - sticking in orbit and running screens to keep ship "invisible" from RADAR...
2. "Passive" emissions are an "interesting" situation - there's enough cases of exotic material X or enough of standard material Y (rock, usually) hiding an energy source enough to keep it hidden or make it very very hard to detect till the plot needs it found. This could be the black hull, but why does it have to be black, if hardtoobtanium is the efficient shielding material du-jour, unless said material doesn't accept paint then it's possible to put the standard paintjobs on a ship. And if you're gonna play the "camo game" - remember the following: Camo only works when the backdrop is the same "look" as the camo material. Yeah, black hull on black space backdrop is cool, but black hull doesn't hide at all from a planet's moonbase and the ship's in orbit on dayside (black spot against white clouds / blue water / green-brown-whatever ground? Really camouflaged)...
3. Things like using 4 nacelles with smaller bussards / energy fields to cut down on detection and/or detection ranges, etc. etc. sounds logical - but then why aren't these practices being used on a consistent basis? That Galaxy with the massive family contingent needs less stealth, or the Enterprise-E patrolling the Neutral Zone?
4. May I mention that if we really want to use 20th/21st century stealth concepts brought up to 11 for 25th century ships, may I remind the artists that the F22, F35, DD-X "stealth ship", etc. are all not "black" vehicles, but all possess significant amounts of "stealth" material and design. Isn't the F22 considered "as stealthy" or "more stealthy" than the F-117? Do note, the F-117 was painted black for one purpose and one purpose only - USAF decided during construction that the F-117 would only fly night missions, where the black paintjob was effective camo against the black sky it was intended to fly within. Those jets were quite visible during daytime practice flights...
More to come if I think of them... :P
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
what is is it with this forum and posts that use spoiled logic?
"waaa waa go away, go away waa waa waa"
gg on the pointing & describing whats wrong & why, then suggesting improvements.:rolleyes:
yreodred's descriptions of how to improve the guardian for example, was well done indeed.
I have before hand. Tobias Richter, Moonraker, DJ Curtis, Maxeloaf all could make better designs than this. My fleet saw the first glimpse of the Eclipse and all of us hated it.
One thing one of us suggest was that STo should allow us to totally kitbash our ships. You get the basic hull that has the consoles, BO slots, and general stats. THen you can put ANY hull peice you want on it and make a truly unique ship from it. The biggest issue now a days with their ships is lack of custumization. THe Ktinga has 3 model skins but you can kitbash them for some odd reason. Oddy and Avenger, and Ambassador have no real alt model skins. Now they bring this junk out which only has ONE ship that looks fed. They clearly don't know whaty they our doing. Again this is a STAR TREK GAME, thus we want to fly ships that look like STAR TREK SHIPS.
I have before hand. Tobias Richter, Moonraker, DJ Curtis, Maxeloaf all could make better designs than this. My fleet saw the first glimpse of the Eclipse and all of us hated it.
One thing one of us suggest was that STo should allow us to totally kitbash our ships. You get the basic hull that has the consoles, BO slots, and general stats. THen you can put ANY hull peice you want on it and make a truly unique ship from it. The biggest issue now a days with their ships is lack of custumization. THe Ktinga has 3 model skins but you can kitbash them for some odd reason. Oddy and Avenger, and Ambassador have no real alt model skins. Now they bring this junk out which only has ONE ship that looks fed. They clearly don't know whaty they our doing. Again this is a STAR TREK GAME, thus we want to fly ships that look like STAR TREK SHIPS.
The temporal ships (timeships) are canon as per appearing in Voyager, and yet are perhaps the least canon-looking ships ever--I'd say even more so than the intelligence ships, where you can clearly see, Defiant, Prometheus/Cheyenne, and Luna class influences (respectively).
Ultimately, what you want to say is that you simply don't like the designs, but any argument that they are un-canon or "not Star Trek ships" is flawed.
Personally, I don't like the hull material, and am hoping to see a few variant pieces we can change out, especially the nacelles and saucer on the Eclipse, so that they will conform to my liking. Both different hull materials and alternate parts have all but been confirmed (see: that thread with the ship designer reddit AMA)
Everything you say up to that last sentence, I agree with. Since there hasn't been an official show since Enterprise, there has to be some kind of lore expansion. This is it, unless CBS wants to start a new series.
Also:
non-canon looking: see anything Dyson related
ugly: Avenger
One of the most un-canon looking ships in Star Trek history may have been the Defiant. No saucer, no nacelles seperated from the main body. Designed as a Starfleet warship. Much smaller than any of the preceeding Starfleet ships, and yet one of ships packing the most punch. Going against any previous design ethos of ships, against the concept of "better ships are bigger".
Except, of course... it's canon.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The temporal ships (timeships) are canon as per appearing in Voyager, and yet are perhaps the least canon-looking ships ever--I'd say even more so than the intelligence ships, where you can clearly see, Defiant, Prometheus/Cheyenne, and Luna class influences (respectively).
Ultimately, what you want to say is that you simply don't like the designs, but any argument that they are un-canon or "not Star Trek ships" is flawed.
Personally, I don't like the hull material, and am hoping to see a few variant pieces we can change out, especially the nacelles and saucer on the Eclipse, so that they will conform to my liking. Both different hull materials and alternate parts have all but been confirmed (see: that thread with the ship designer reddit AMA)
Everything you say up to that last sentence, I agree with. Since there hasn't been an official show since Enterprise, there has to be some kind of lore expansion. This is it, unless CBS wants to start a new series.
Also:
non-canon looking: see anything Dyson related
ugly: Avenger
And yet, people have grown accustomed to them.
Well's is 29 th century so it gets a pass there. since we haven't seen their evolution to that point. Unlike the T6's where we know their evolution and these don't match.
The temporal ships (timeships) are canon as per appearing in Voyager, and yet are perhaps the least canon-looking ships ever--I'd say even more so than the intelligence ships, where you can clearly see, Defiant, Prometheus/Cheyenne, and Luna class influences (respectively).
Ultimately, what you want to say is that you simply don't like the designs, but any argument that they are un-canon or "not Star Trek ships" is flawed.
Personally, I don't like the hull material, and am hoping to see a few variant pieces we can change out, especially the nacelles and saucer on the Eclipse, so that they will conform to my liking. Both different hull materials and alternate parts have all but been confirmed (see: that thread with the ship designer reddit AMA)
Everything you say up to that last sentence, I agree with. Since there hasn't been an official show since Enterprise, there has to be some kind of lore expansion. This is it, unless CBS wants to start a new series.
Also:
non-canon looking: see anything Dyson related
ugly: Avenger
And yet, people have grown accustomed to them.
The avenger while slightly ugly has one thing going for it. It looks like a federation ship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
ifthe avenger was less blocky she be fine. andyet the designers went from Avenger to those T6 ships. yuck again no logic.
The logic is that they're made for a stealth purpose - which isn't the normal Federation approach, so they're trying something different for aesthetics.
But much like the Defiant's debut, still hasn't replaced the normal aesthetic; just leading the purpose they're designed for
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The logic is that they're made for a stealth purpose - which isn't the normal Federation approach, so they're trying something different for aesthetics.
But much like the Defiant's debut, still hasn't replaced the normal aesthetic; just leading the purpose they're designed for
Comments
Yeah. Plus when you get into game mechanics, a stealth ship 'look' isn't going to mean much when the game puts a damn target box around it! :rolleyes:
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Better idea. Quit designing ships for the ungrateful feds and spend your time on more KDF ships!
On the note of the Fed ships. I like them, they look pretty decent. Though the sci ship saucer part makes me think of a chakram. Not that bad of a look tbh.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Well i still not get warm with it. I dont think i will get one of these.
But anyway it maybe not my taste but others maybe like it.
The question for me will be the states of the new ship, as long as the somehow balanced with the upgraded ship, i will not have a problem with them at all and keep playing my upgraded ship.
Yeah, well... The (pre-Destiny) books and more than one source beyond them tried to retcon the Enterprise Incident, everything Dougherty did in Insurrection, the conspiracy in ST VI: The Undiscovered Country, and most of the shadier stuff as being Section 31 plots that the REAL Starfleet Intelligence would be too clean to condone.
It's not that everyone needs to have perfect scruples and individuals fall short but Starfleet as an organization basically does need to be the lawful good, paladin-with-his-hands-tied of the franchise.
I still think the ideal way to structure a Trek MMO would be:
Everyone is allied.
Missions are never assigned by superiors but are instead issued by distress calls, with a focus on the situation rather than the orders.
Treat faction as MMO class/profession with meaningful class distinctions in terms of gameplay. For example, Starfleet can't use exploit attacks on an exposed target but perhaps gets weapon specializations. If you want a "dirty" version of Starfleet, you introduce a Section 31 class but they have different kits and perhaps lack advantages that Starfleet gets.
So Starfleet is a CLASS. Tac/Sci/Eng are specs. Klingon is a CLASS. Maybe... Monk/Soldier/Warrior are specs. Section 31 is a class. Romulan is a class. Etc.
Each class has a distinctive resource system like you have in conventional MMOs. I think the closest STO gets is singularity powers in space but I think you need a ground resource system and maybe this should also boost and regulate captain space powers.
So, for example, Klingon abilities might be fueled by Honor which, say, increases as YOUR health decreases and receives a multiplier bonus based on how superior your target is, how close your target is, with a large boost when you defeat an enemy or when an ally is killed. So as a Klingon? You take damage to deal damage. You want to attack the biggest and baddest enemy you can. You are fueled by the rush of victory and spurred by the loss of allies.
Starfleet abilities might be fueled by Discipline. The Discipline bar begins full and decreases over time. But it is replenished by firing on an enemy that a teammate is firing on. It gets a major boost when you heal or buff a teammate. It recovers rapidly when you crouch but this is interrupted if you take damage. Critical strikes for Federation deal less damage but replenish Discipline. Rapid weapons drain Discipline at a disproportionately lower rate and Damage Over Time, sniper, and burst weapons drain Discipline at a higher rate, making hand phasers and pistols a superior option and less "clean" weapons more taxing.
Get the general idea? The resource system would encourage themed behaviors and if you want a different behavior, you would want to play a different class.
Hehe. I am now reminded of the roleplaying game "Torg" and its Nippontech realm.
There, every 10th person was a spy/traitor. Which means that every 100th person was a traitor-traitor.
So, how many Undine are part of Section 31?
And do any Section 31 members pose as Undine posing as Section 31 member posing as Starfleet Intelligence Officer?
This almost demands a Foundry mission.
Changelings posing as Undine posing as Section 31 agents posing as Starfleet officers posing as Tal Shiar infiltrating the Klingon Empire who get surgically reassigned to pose as Starfleet Officers who get assigned to pose as Klingons working with Romulans and who must kill Undine to keep their cover up in order to maintain their cover for the sake of the Dominion.
Flying Dominion ships sold to them by Ferengi who are secretly Tal Shiar who are secretly Section 31 who are really Undine.
Meanwhile, you have a crew of Jem'Hadar aboard who are secretly holograms created by Section 31 who was duped into making them by a rogue Starfleet Admiral who is secretly a Tal Shiar plant who is secretly an Undine.
And they dock at a station that looks like a starbase but is actually a Transformer.
Dammit, I wanted an intelligence cruiser that looks like a poor, weak, outdated support ship (Constellation) so much.:(
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Well thats something I pointed out a long time ago, Undine in Section 31 and or Starfleet Intelligence would explain Starfleets Unwillingness to take the threat seriously for so long
Needless to say Section 31 fanboys did not like that idea
Oh God, my head...
Another Changling probably poses as Undine posing as Romulan posing as Vulcan Engineer for the new Intelligence Ship program.
Note: The Changling in my story was once send out by the Founders, but due to a wormhole incident traveled back in time and landed in the Andromeda galaxy, where he founded a new link.
Does it though? If as I suspect they would work in Independent Cells with limited Knowledge of each other, I very much doubt theres a regular Meeting of all the Agents, and An infiltrator assuming the Identity of an active field operative for Section 31 could do a lot of damage before whilst they are out and about in the Quadrant before they have to be recalled to their base of operations, or safe house
Another question worth asking, What about those other Infiltrators we saw before, the ones who had Starfleet Command under their control at one point.
Could they have infiltrated Section 31 also?
But when I read all this attempts to explain from the art department, well there isn't any good design in this recently uncovered T6 Intel monstrosities imho.
I've got absolutely zero desire to own one of these ships.
I strongly hope that these aren't the only T6 ships they will bring at launch, or at least shortly after launch to Delta Rising.
Original join date: Jul 2008
Hard to say. Section 31 was created several years after those parasites.
Meh, it's a McGuffin and McGuffins are inconsistent.
My character Tsin'xing
Well Cryptic should pay attention to that, since the Klingons beamed up an Undine and didn;t seem to notice
And with the second point Well theres been Section 31 in the timeline since ENT, Harris and Reed where operatives, A retcon I know so the writers at the time of the TNG episode wouldn;t have thought of it.
Seems plausible to me though
This is so true. But, keep in mind the following:
1. Since ToS, deflector screens alone pretty much handle most of the "standard EM detectors", "Assignment Earth" - sticking in orbit and running screens to keep ship "invisible" from RADAR...
2. "Passive" emissions are an "interesting" situation - there's enough cases of exotic material X or enough of standard material Y (rock, usually) hiding an energy source enough to keep it hidden or make it very very hard to detect till the plot needs it found. This could be the black hull, but why does it have to be black, if hardtoobtanium is the efficient shielding material du-jour, unless said material doesn't accept paint then it's possible to put the standard paintjobs on a ship. And if you're gonna play the "camo game" - remember the following: Camo only works when the backdrop is the same "look" as the camo material. Yeah, black hull on black space backdrop is cool, but black hull doesn't hide at all from a planet's moonbase and the ship's in orbit on dayside (black spot against white clouds / blue water / green-brown-whatever ground? Really camouflaged)...
3. Things like using 4 nacelles with smaller bussards / energy fields to cut down on detection and/or detection ranges, etc. etc. sounds logical - but then why aren't these practices being used on a consistent basis? That Galaxy with the massive family contingent needs less stealth, or the Enterprise-E patrolling the Neutral Zone?
4. May I mention that if we really want to use 20th/21st century stealth concepts brought up to 11 for 25th century ships, may I remind the artists that the F22, F35, DD-X "stealth ship", etc. are all not "black" vehicles, but all possess significant amounts of "stealth" material and design. Isn't the F22 considered "as stealthy" or "more stealthy" than the F-117? Do note, the F-117 was painted black for one purpose and one purpose only - USAF decided during construction that the F-117 would only fly night missions, where the black paintjob was effective camo against the black sky it was intended to fly within. Those jets were quite visible during daytime practice flights...
More to come if I think of them... :P
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I have before hand. Tobias Richter, Moonraker, DJ Curtis, Maxeloaf all could make better designs than this. My fleet saw the first glimpse of the Eclipse and all of us hated it.
One thing one of us suggest was that STo should allow us to totally kitbash our ships. You get the basic hull that has the consoles, BO slots, and general stats. THen you can put ANY hull peice you want on it and make a truly unique ship from it. The biggest issue now a days with their ships is lack of custumization. THe Ktinga has 3 model skins but you can kitbash them for some odd reason. Oddy and Avenger, and Ambassador have no real alt model skins. Now they bring this junk out which only has ONE ship that looks fed. They clearly don't know whaty they our doing. Again this is a STAR TREK GAME, thus we want to fly ships that look like STAR TREK SHIPS.
The temporal ships (timeships) are canon as per appearing in Voyager, and yet are perhaps the least canon-looking ships ever--I'd say even more so than the intelligence ships, where you can clearly see, Defiant, Prometheus/Cheyenne, and Luna class influences (respectively).
Ultimately, what you want to say is that you simply don't like the designs, but any argument that they are un-canon or "not Star Trek ships" is flawed.
Personally, I don't like the hull material, and am hoping to see a few variant pieces we can change out, especially the nacelles and saucer on the Eclipse, so that they will conform to my liking. Both different hull materials and alternate parts have all but been confirmed (see: that thread with the ship designer reddit AMA)
Everything you say up to that last sentence, I agree with. Since there hasn't been an official show since Enterprise, there has to be some kind of lore expansion. This is it, unless CBS wants to start a new series.
Also:
non-canon looking: see anything Dyson related
ugly: Avenger
And yet, people have grown accustomed to them.
Except, of course... it's canon.
Well's is 29 th century so it gets a pass there. since we haven't seen their evolution to that point. Unlike the T6's where we know their evolution and these don't match.
The avenger while slightly ugly has one thing going for it. It looks like a federation ship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
ifthe avenger was less blocky she be fine. andyet the designers went from Avenger to those T6 ships. yuck again no logic.
But much like the Defiant's debut, still hasn't replaced the normal aesthetic; just leading the purpose they're designed for
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
stealth that in the ST timeframe that mean squat