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New T6 Ships will be a separate class

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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If they made PVE harder, that i would kinda need a T6 ship, I would be maybe get angry, but I'm pretty sure any new PVE content can be done with T5 ships...so meh



    Anywho T6 ships are OP please nerf
    GwaoHAD.png
  • tksmittytksmitty Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    And the power keeps on creeping.
    Current ship/builds:
    KDF Tac: Bortasqu' Tactical
    Fed Tac: Fleet Gal-X

    Keep those big guns a-thunderin'
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    I sympathize. Personally, I am not angry. But I am determined not to allow them to get away with deceiving the player base. I will be happy if I can prevent even a few people from falling prey. I also refuse to accept their "doublespeak". For once they need to be 100% sincere with their player base.
    If T6 ships are really becoming a reality, I'd like to suggest a couple things that will make me less furious about spending all of that cash I blew on what I thought were the highest end ships since 2009.

    1. Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining. Upgrading a T5 to a sub par 5.5 doesn't interest me. Instead, give me a free version like the oddy and bort before the 3 pack launch and I'll be happy. Make me grind for it, and I will lose my 5#!7.

    2. We're going to need another ship slot increase please. Don't think for a second that you'll be able to 'double dip' on T6 purchases AND a service purchase for more slots without upsetting everyone even more.

    3. When peeps hit 50, a T5 ship token would be nice. Nicer still would be if it included fleet ships.

    This sounds fair to me. I'm soo angry though. All of my time wasted on old crafting for nothing ... now my oddy pack, scimi pack, mogh, brel ... all becoming TRIBBLE. That's like $150! Doesn't even include other ships I've bought. I can't even imagine how ticked off others who have bought more are. Its bull TRIBBLE. You need a huge win soon Cryptic, or new leadership. Something has to give.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    tksmitty wrote: »
    And the power keeps on creeping.

    And cash grabs keeping on coming ... let them grind ... let them grind ... let them grind!
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tksmitty wrote: »
    And the power keeps on creeping.

    And the knees keep jerking.
    macronius wrote: »
    And cash grabs keeping on coming ... let them grind ... let them grind ... let them grind!

    And the pearls keep clutching.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    It kind of begs the question of...

    RA 9 console < ZEN 9 console < ZEN 10 console/Fleet < Lock Box < Lobi < T6

    ...what's the point of them releasing any additional ZEN 9/10 console or Fleet vessels much less Lock Box and Lobi ships?

    So what does that mean for the variety of Refits/Retrofits/Fleet/etc vessels that they've talked about coming?

    Why would anybody bother unless they were T6 vessels?
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    macronius wrote: »
    Glad to see you contradict yourself there. Exactly, no upgrade. The best that will happen is they will boost T5 stats to keep them competitive. But it was said specifically that Tier 6 will have unique abilities not available to T5.

    I am not contradicting myself - just did not go into a long detail again.

    Yes there will be a upgrade process for T5 ships - just that they won't be Tier 6 - they will be T5 retro retrofits or something.

    I was just pointing out that as of now(and this could change, however I doubt it), you can't upgrade old ships to the New Tier 6 ship class/line which will have new powers/abilities.

    For all we know the Stats could be the same from Tier 5 "upgraded" to the new Tier 6 class - but the Tier 6 gets some powers like the Romulan Warbirds got.

    I really hope that Cryptic does not leave these questions unanswered for too long. Of course many people might not like the answers when the do arrive.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    It kind of begs the question of...

    RA 9 console < ZEN 9 console < ZEN 10 console/Fleet < Lock Box < Lobi < T6

    ...what's the point of them releasing any additional ZEN 9/10 console or Fleet vessels much less Lock Box and Lobi ships?

    So what does that mean for the variety of Refits/Retrofits/Fleet/etc vessels that they've talked about coming?

    Why would anybody bother unless they were T6 vessels?

    You ask a rational question. Cryptic's response is: "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • jengozjengoz Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    if we want to upgrade a C-store ship are we going to have to buy an upgrade for each toon we use that ship on? like fleet ships?
    "Star Trek Online is powered by the most abundant resource in the galaxy . . . Gullibility"
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    I am not contradicting myself - just did not go into a long detail again.

    Yes there will be a upgrade process for T5 ships - just that they won't be Tier 6 - they will be T5 retro retrofits or something.

    I was just pointing out that as of now(and this could change, however I doubt it), you can't upgrade old ships to the New Tier 6 ship class/line which will have new powers/abilities.

    For all we know the Stats could be the same from Tier 5 upgraded to Tier 6 - but the Tier 6 gets some powers like the Romulan Warbirds got.

    I really hope that Cryptic does not leave these questions unanswered for too long. Of course many people might not like the answers when the do arrive.

    The fact that my purchased ships don't have an option to become Tier 6 is already a deal breaker. Add the news on 2nd deflector ... and I can't see anything positive about this ... apart from new content. Most of said content will be delayed until after X2 ... so there will be a X2.5.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Why would anybody bother unless they were T6 vessels?

    Unless maybe the difference between T5, T5.5 and T6 is so small and miniscule that they can simultaneously advertise T6 ships in the future while ensuring players still have the desire to get T5 and T5.5 ships in the present.

    That is the main reason why I'm not too terribly concerned. "Delta Rising" is supposed to come in October, but here we are at the beginning of August with doubts over whether or not we should even buy more ships from the C-store or our Fleet shipyards.

    That's just a business suicide strategy to have T6 ships completely outclass what we currently have. Cryptic knows people will simply not buy new ships until October (if they aren't completely disenfranchised by then), which means crippling their revenue for the next few months.

    When Quack says, "We'll take care of you.", I believe him. Because as many mistakes as Cryptic has made, nothing can convince me they are dumb enough to shoot themselves in the foot 3 months in advance.

    T6 ships may have unique abilities, but unique doesn't necessarily mean better.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    jengoz wrote: »
    if we want to upgrade a C-store ship are we going to have to buy an upgrade for each toon we use that ship on? like fleet ships?

    I highly suspect to contain the rage/complaints - all older ships will be upgraded to what I call:

    "T5 retro retrofit class" - for free:eek::P

    Tier 6 class/line will be completely new and separate from the older ships.
  • no09dysonsphereno09dysonsphere Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    Unless maybe the difference between T5, T5.5 and T6 is so small and miniscule that they can simultaneously advertise T6 ships in the future while ensuring players still have the desire to get T5 and T5.5 ships in the present.

    That is the main reason why I'm not too terribly concerned. "Delta Rising" is supposed to come in October, but here we are at the beginning of August with doubts over whether or not we should even buy more ships from the C-store or our Fleet shipyards.

    That's just a business suicide strategy to have T6 ships completely outclass what we currently have. Cryptic knows people will simply not buy new ships until October (if they aren't completely disenfranchised by then), which means crippling their revenue for the next few months.

    When Quack says, "We'll take care of you.", I believe him. Because as many mistakes as Cryptic has made, nothing can convince me they are dumb enough to shoot themselves in the foot 3 months in advance.

    T6 ships may have unique abilities, but unique doesn't necessarily mean better.

    Except that's exactly what they're doing keeping the exact details on how the new tier will work a secret and letting this rampant speculation spread. Because based on the quotes I've seen, I'm inclined to believe that the upgraded lockbox ships aren't going to be as good as c store t6 ships (in noncosmetic or non minor unique ability ways), and that is a dealbreaker for me. And I know I'm not the only one, because JHAS are starting to appear on the exchange again...
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    Iconian, you are a pretty smart person. Do you really believe that T6 won't offer a significant upgrade from T5.x? Can you cite any recent example when Cryptic hasn't completely gone crazy with OP upgrades (Spire tac consoles, Mine RCS consoles, new Crafting consoles with 3-4 stats boosts). Seriously?

    iconians wrote: »
    Unless maybe the difference between T5, T5.5 and T6 is so small and miniscule that they can simultaneously advertise T6 ships in the future while ensuring players still have the desire to get T5 and T5.5 ships in the present.

    That is the main reason why I'm not too terribly concerned. "Delta Rising" is supposed to come in October, but here we are at the beginning of August with doubts over whether or not we should even buy more ships from the C-store or our Fleet shipyards.

    That's just a business suicide strategy to have T6 ships completely outclass what we currently have. Cryptic knows people will simply not buy new ships until October (if they aren't completely disenfranchised by then), which means crippling their revenue for the next few months.

    When Quack says, "We'll take care of you.", I believe him. Because as many mistakes as Cryptic has made, nothing can convince me they are dumb enough to shoot themselves in the foot 3 months in advance.

    T6 ships may have unique abilities, but unique doesn't necessarily mean better.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    I highly suspect to contain the rage/complaints - all older ships will be upgraded to what I call:

    "T5 retro retrofit class" - for free:eek::P

    Tier 6 class/line will be completely new and separate from the older ships.

    And those T5 will be noticeably inferior to T6 ships in some way ... including missing on new mechanics. If not why would players bother replacing their ships? Think about it!
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Except that's exactly what they're doing keeping the exact details on how the new tier will work a secret and letting this rampant speculation spread. Because based on the quotes I've seen, I'm inclined to believe that the upgraded lockbox ships aren't going to be as good as c store t6 ships (in noncosmetic or minor unique ability ways), and that is a dealbreaker for me. And I know I'm not the only one, because JHAS are starting to appear on the exchange again...

    I find it easier to chalk it up to Cryptic/PWE's incompetence on effective communication to the playerbase than some kind of evil conspiracy to keep us in the dark on purpose.

    After all, this is the same company that thinks people don't break the forum rules outside of PWE's business hours, and the same company that thinks going through Twitter, Reddit, and Facebook is better than their own forums.

    I wouldn't suggest bringing out the torches and pitchforks unless there are no dev blogs or other type of communication to address the concerns we have today.

    The only people freaking out are the people who want to be freaked out. The only people acting like paranoid lunatics over this T6 ship business are the ones that want to be paranoid lunatics.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    macronius wrote: »
    Iconian, you are a pretty smart person. Do you really believe that T6 won't offer a significant upgrade from T5.x? Can you cite any recent example when Cryptic hasn't completely gone crazy with OP upgrades (Spire tac consoles, Mine RCS consoles, new Crafting consoles with 3-4 stats boosts). Seriously?

    A signifigant upgrade? It depends. We don't even know what these abilities are, or what they will do.

    Do I think the upgrades will tempt players into buying them for zen? Yes.

    Do I believe players are dumb enough to automatically perceive a shiny T6 ship as being somehow better than others? Yes. I see it all the time with Scimitar captains blowing up constantly because they think spending $50 on the three-pack will automatically make them pros at the game. But all I end up seeing are constant thalaron clouds from their deaths because they're still scrubs.

    Do I believe that in practice T6 ships will signifigantly outperform T5 or T5.5 ships who have been given the proper upgrades (as indicated)? No.

    Do I believe they will be competitive to each other in different ways? Yes.

    Do I believe they are dumb enough to say, "We don't want your money for spaceships for the next few months." by revealing this info today? No.

    Do I believe they are dumb when it comes to effective communication? Yes.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    macronius wrote: »
    And those T5 will be noticeably inferior to T6 ships in some way ... including missing on new mechanics. If not why would players bother replacing their ships? Think about it!

    If you look back through my posts - this is what I say:

    Tier 6 ships WILL be better - they WILL have some gimmicks to make people want to buy them.

    In fact this is EXACTLY what Al Rivera said and since I am going from memory I will have to paraphrase:

    'people will be so amazed/excited by the new Tier 6 ship abilities they might just decide to upgrade/buy them over their existing ships'

    No-one - not me or Al Rivera is claiming that the new Tier 6 Ship class won't be subjectively or actually "better" in some ways.

    Edit: and since it's late and this topic will be debated for weeks/months - I am off to bed - good night all.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    The only people freaking out are the people who want to be freaked out. The only people acting like paranoid lunatics over this T6 ship business are the ones that want to be paranoid lunatics.

    I don't want to be freaked out. I don't want to be a paranoid lunatic. I like my somewhat relaxed mix of "oh that's cool" and "meh, what were they thinking" that I tend to have going on. I'm comfortable with that. There will be stuff I like. There will be stuff I do not like. That's to be expected.

    When Cryptic does an announcement like they did yesterday...

    ...while I may not go the paranoid lunatic route that they're out to get my Lucky Charms; I'm definitely going to be a little on the "Fffffffffffffffffffffffu, Cryptic" and freaking out a bit.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I don't want to be freaked out. I don't want to be a paranoid lunatic. I like my somewhat relaxed mix of "oh that's cool" and "meh, what were they thinking" that I tend to have going on. I'm comfortable with that. There will be stuff I like. There will be stuff I do not like. That's to be expected.

    When Cryptic does an announcement like they did yesterday...

    ...while I may not go the paranoid lunatic route that they're out to get my Lucky Charms; I'm definitely going to be a little on the "Fffffffffffffffffffffffu, Cryptic" and freaking out a bit.

    If it turns out this is all bs, believe me I will be one of the first people to call Cryptic out on it and take them to task for coming up with a really dumb idea in regards to T6 ships.

    They've made questionable decisions before. But for them to make a decision that is the equivelant of alienating potential revenue via current ships, lockbox ships, etc.?

    I honestly don't believe they are that inept to say, "We don't want your money until October."
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I pretty much read in an interview that 2nd Deflectors weren't even programmed in for other ships yet, they didn't "get" to it. Now I'm starting to think T6 Ships only..... But they did say Nebula/Vesta get Bonuses besides their hull increase,.

    My Optomistic side says "T6 Fleet Versions.". My Realistic Side Says "Don't hold your breath." But I will hold off on judging something that is merely speculation, after all it'll be on tribble soon.
    Sekhmet_Banner.jpg
    Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    If it turns out this is all bs, believe me I will be one of the first people to call Cryptic out on it and take them to task for coming up with a really dumb idea in regards to T6 ships.

    They've made questionable decisions before. But for them to make a decision that is the equivelant of alienating potential revenue via current ships, lockbox ships, etc.?

    I honestly don't believe they are that inept to say, "We don't want your money until October."

    I think they are gambling on new players and the addicted. I wouldn't be shocked at such a gamble given the latest lock boxes haven't exactly sparkled for them.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    chiyoumiku wrote: »
    I pretty much read in an interview that 2nd Deflectors weren't even programmed in for other ships yet, they didn't "get" to it. Now I'm starting to think T6 Ships only..... But they did say Nebula/Vesta get Bonuses besides their hull increase,.

    My Optomistic side says "T6 Fleet Versions.". My Realistic Side Says "Don't hold your breath." But I will hold off on judging something that is merely speculation, after all it'll be on tribble soon.

    Except most of the content won't be on tribble for some time.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • hartzillahartzilla Member Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You know actually we should be go with our existing ships I and gear until level 55 as that's when we stop being Vice Admirals which is what our current stuff is for.

    Which is why I wondering why the added a new tier just for leveling up five levels instead of just adding slightly fancier new ships at tier 5 like they did last level cap increase since T5 will ultimately cover 15 levels.
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I mostly play STO to fly around in little Star Trek ships and I mostly buy those ships based on looks and what I like. So my 'main' character flies a Fleet AC-R using the Sovereign costume. My main KDF flies a Fleet Tor'kaht using the Vor'kang costume with the Mirror Vor'cha's material.

    If I can upgrade those ships, I will. If I can buy new ships that can use those same appearances instead, I'll do that. If I can't do either- I will keep using the ships I like and Cryptic has lost an opportunity to sell me something.

    New ships? Probably not going to buy unless I can make them look like my current ships.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    macronius wrote: »
    I think they are gambling on new players and the addicted. I wouldn't be shocked at such a gamble given the latest lock boxes haven't exactly sparkled for them.

    It's an extremely risky gamble. I'd even go as far as to say an unjustifiable risk since you're talking about alienating Zen sales for the next month or two from players who are too paranoid and fearful of their purchases being rendered obsolete.

    Not to mention it would be a waste of developer time. You don't spend money and labor hours on new ships you plan on making obsolete in 2 months.

    That's just dumb.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    macronius wrote: »
    Except most of the content won't be on tribble for some time.

    I know, that agonizing wait to find out the truth.
    Sekhmet_Banner.jpg
    Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    If it turns out this is all bs, believe me I will be one of the first people to call Cryptic out on it and take them to task for coming up with a really dumb idea in regards to T6 ships.

    They've made questionable decisions before. But for them to make a decision that is the equivelant of alienating potential revenue via current ships, lockbox ships, etc.?

    I honestly don't believe they are that inept to say, "We don't want your money."

    But here's the thing, and I hope this doesn't go too far outside the topic of the thread.

    Consider the following:

    How many of the T1-T4 ships are bought solely for their consoles vs. by people who are going to fly them for 2-3 hours?

    What was in the last Lock Box for the console exchange? A T5 console...where T5 consoles were previously locked to the T5 vessel and any earlier/later variants.

    So is it simply a case that the T5 ships are being lumped in with the T1-T4 ships so the question will be asked...

    How many of the T1-T5 ships are bought solely for their consoles...? No doubt it will be more than a few hours to get from 50 to 60...but in the end, not everybody's flying something beyond a RA T5 boat...so folks could technically do the 50 - 60 in one, eh?

    Odds are that the Lock Box/Lobi ships will be bumped up to "T6" level so they can continue that revenue stream down the road...it's lucrative for them, they're not going to kill that.

    The Fleet Vessels and the 10 console ZEN boats might end up being the "competitive"/"useful" boats that aren't quite T6...or some such, eh?

    But there's all sorts of groundwork being laid for the T5 boats to be little more than T4 boats in the new scheme of things...
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    It's an extremely risky gamble. I'd even go as far as to say an unjustifiable risk since you're talking about alienating Zen sales for the next month or two from players who are too paranoid and fearful of their purchases being rendered obsolete.

    Not to mention it would be a waste of developer time. You don't spend money and labor hours on new ships you plan on making obsolete in 2 months.

    That's just dumb.

    Iconian, they are using misdirection, doublespeak and calculated smokescreen to cover their sales until then. Besides, once the new ships are available in October do you really believe people will buy many of the old ones?

    I think they are smarter than they look and they definitely know how to make money!
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    I didn't see the T5 console giveaway 0 tie in. This is getting speculative now but I could definitely see them pulling off something like this.

    But here's the thing, and I hope this doesn't go too far outside the topic of the thread.

    Consider the following:

    How many of the T1-T4 ships are bought solely for their consoles vs. by people who are going to fly them for 2-3 hours?

    What was in the last Lock Box for the console exchange? A T5 console...where T5 consoles were previously locked to the T5 vessel and any earlier/later variants.

    So is it simply a case that the T5 ships are being lumped in with the T1-T4 ships so the question will be asked...

    How many of the T1-T5 ships are bought solely for their consoles...? No doubt it will be more than a few hours to get from 50 to 60...but in the end, not everybody's flying something beyond a RA T5 boat...so folks could technically do the 50 - 60 in one, eh?

    Odds are that the Lock Box/Lobi ships will be bumped up to "T6" level so they can continue that revenue stream down the road...it's lucrative for them, they're not going to kill that.

    The Fleet Vessels and the 10 console ZEN boats might end up being the "competitive"/"useful" boats that aren't quite T6...or some such, eh?

    But there's all sorts of groundwork being laid for the T5 boats to be little more than T4 boats in the new scheme of things...
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
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