Disappointment over what? Something you don't understand? We barely have any information here. This is the first release of data. This is the part where we're supposed to remain cautious, but not jump to conclusions based on some kind of emotional investment in the game.
I'm not discussing the means and way to upgrade the T5 ships to T6, but the fact that spacebaronline is quoting from Geko here - that T6 ships will have "special" abilities that the upgarded ships will not.
Unless this "special" abilities are mere novelty similar like the DSD Boff switch, that means my favourite ships in the game will never be able to be at that 'top level'.
You don't know what the abilities are. You don't know how they work. You don't know how they are compared to the current ships.
You're speculating that your ship will not be 'top level' based on personal opinion, which hasn't been verified nor debunked by reality.
But feel free to ride your high-horse anyway.
Not jumping onto the knee-jerk bandwagon like the Terran Empire version of First Contact is apparently riding a high horse.
But feel free to loot and pillage what you don't understand or comprehend based on initial revelations.
and why would the flagship be some prototype special ship that just came out?
did the flagship turn into the Excelsior when the class was first released? No. And why do you think the Enterprise HAS to be the best ship in the fleet?
and what describes the "Best in the fleet"? to me, TV show wise, the Prometheus was the best ship in the fleet during the TNG movie era, so why was not the Ent-E a Prometheuss class as the Promehteus was more advanced than the Sovereign class.
The original Enterprise, and the proceeding Enterprise-A, wasn't the Federation flagship. The Enterprise is only directly mentioned as being the flagship of the Federation once TNG came out. Also, Geordi mentions that the Enterprise-E is the most advanced ship in the fleet at the time in First Contact.
Incidentally, the Enterpise-B launched the same year that the Enterprise-A was retired in 2293. So, roll on Enterprise-G!
why? they said you can upgrade a T5 ship to T6 stats.... just you wont have the T6 unique abilities.
And you believe them? Just a few weeks ago they absolutely denied T6 ships were ever going to happen. Now we know that they are infact in the works.
Im not saying you wont be able to atleast be in the general ballpark of a T6 ship. But I doubt Cryptics idea of 'competitive' is the same as the playerbases.
I'm a bit surprised that T6 ships are coming... but, just a bit.
I look at what is available on STOWiki at "Tier V" level of ships... there are three types:
Rear Admiral ships (this level includes lock box and promotion ships)
C-Store ships
Fleet ships
Personally, in my drydock, I have a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit, which (among other things) has around 50,000 hull strength. My Odyssey Operations Cruiser has around 60,000 hull strength. Now, they have said that you will be able to "upgrade" your ships at the new level 60 cap... whatever this will be, it's a good call since ALL lock box and Lobi ships are usable at level 40. That's quite a jump.
Given all of this... how good will these new T6 ships actually be? Also, why would lock box & Lobi ships be automatically "obsolete"? Out of the "box," these ships are good, but not great. You have to mod them with consoles... and then, knowing how to use them helps, LOL.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not buying another ship until X2 drops (with the possible exception of the Bug)... but, still, I don't think it's quite the end of all things... especially with no dev blogs yet.
And you believe them? Just a few weeks ago they absolutely denied T6 ships were ever going to happen. Now we know that they are infact in the works.
Source?
Im not saying you wont be able to atleast be in the general ballpark of a T6 ship. But I doubt Cryptics idea of 'competitive' is the same as the playerbases.
Most of the playerbase is dumb. I'm okay with them not going with the playerbase's ideas on the matter.
Disappointment over what? Something you don't understand? We barely have any information here. This is the first release of data. This is the part where we're supposed to remain cautious, but not jump to conclusions based on some kind of emotional investment in the game.
You don't know what the abilities are. You don't know how they work. You don't know how they are compared to the current ships.
You're speculating that your ship will not be 'top level' based on personal opinion, which hasn't been verified nor debunked by reality.
Not jumping onto the knee-jerk bandwagon like the Terran Empire version of First Contact is apparently riding a high horse.
But feel free to loot and pillage what you don't understand or comprehend based on initial revelations.
Yes we should remind everyone that it is highly unlikely that there will be a "Significant/substantial" gap between upgraded T5 ships and the new T6 class(I hope:rolleyes:) - it would be a PR nightmare if they made the new T6 line just out-of-the-park better than the older ships.
Could they do it so that the Tier 6 class makes even the upgraded tier 5 - look obsolete? Sure they could - but I highly doubt they would be that silly.
Look for just enough gimmicks to make a lot of people say - I have to have thes new Tier 6 ships.
Just look at the Apple Iphones - each generation is just a fraction better than the last - but people line up to get that extra 5% boost - when no-one really needs it.
Disappointment over what? Something you don't understand? We barely have any information here. This is the first release of data. This is the part where we're supposed to remain cautious, but not jump to conclusions based on some kind of emotional investment in the game.
Thus I simply said that from the current information availible - "It doesn't bode well".
I didn't rage or scream DOOOOM!!! :rolleyes:
You don't know what the abilities are. You don't know how they work. You don't know how they are compared to the current ships.
You're speculating that your ship will not be 'top level' based on personal opinion, which hasn't been verified nor debunked by reality.
Thus I simply just said that from the current information availible - "It doesn't bode well". I didn't rage, I didn't yell DOOM, I didn't say Cryptic robbed me or claim that we're screwed before hand.
The only thing I did wrong is try to rationally explain something to a person with a superiority complex. I apologize for that.
Not jumping onto the knee-jerk bandwagon like the Terran Empire version of First Contact is apparently riding a high horse.
But feel free to loot and pillage what you don't understand or comprehend based on initial revelations.
Nope, but your smug and superior sounding comment, where you made 2 false asumptions on someone you don't know in a single sentence sure sounded like riding the high-horse.
i play escorts exclusively i have allmost every escort out there that a fed can have my current is a fleet advanced escort and i have been playing for 3 or 4 years now let me just say please make the escorts good im sooo damn tired of big TRIBBLE sci ships being unkillable in pvp even things out a lil fine escorts shouldent have a Lotta hull and shields but they should have a lil more killen power they are for escorting big ships and currently it ant that hard to make sci ships that hit harder with the flying drones of death and the tractor beams and the sci ship cutting you in half it currently takes a hole team to kill sci ships if they put even half the time and effort i have into any of my 12 fed ships
also would it be posiable to get a command line for noclip or ghost or whatever ya want to call it when exploring your own map in foundry so if you are doing a good sized map ya can get around check for errors discrepancys
ps
can we get more customization on the ships more colors more ability to not look like every smo out there
"Top level" probably isn't the way to think about "T6". Your old ships just won't be able to be a part of this new class.
See, for ex. I'm fine with this if you interpret it the right way. If they bring that new class they mentioned and that class is limited to T6 ships, plus it has separate abilities like the raider flanking and the cruiser comm arrays - it's fine. Because it's a separate class.
What I wouldn't like to happen is if a new T6 cruiser has special abilities over my "upgraded" T6 cruiser, that my old one will never get access to.
I sure hope you got it right in your assumption on this.
it will probably be all about the new bo's and their powers..
like say every T6 ship gets 14 bo slots..
then i guess all our old ship can be upgraded to have 14 bo slots, but none of the new type
so that way they can put all those new powers with the new bo type which only the new ships get.. so you are competative in that you have the same number of bo slots and so forth, but you can never have access to the new bo type
that way it all depends on what that new skills of the new bo type are like
edit: i further assume the new class is some kind of war ship and the first one will be the warship voyager ultra pack with the new interior and all
Folks, lets not yell doom yet. Wait for details, and if they are bad, let out all the pent up nerdrage then!
I updated the OP with this message - so lets keep that in mind:
Please Note: This is all very early info on the matter and is fully based on Al Rivera's Livestream comments. A lot of information will be coming out over the next few months - so please keep that in mind before getting too upset. As I said at the bottom - as soon as I can transcribe Mr. Rivera's full conversation/words - I will Update the OP again. Please also keep in mind that the Devs could make a lot of changes to how the ships are upgraded and the difference between the old T5's and the new T6 - before they launch. So please keep your feedback civil. Thx.
Need to see what makes T6 special, eg "not T5"... If its additional BOFF or more hull/shields or somesuch for the new level of [im]balance then its obsolescence writ large. Cant see why they'd call em T6 otherwise.
Could they do it so that the Tier 6 class makes even the upgraded tier 5 - look obsolete? Sure they could - but I highly doubt they would be that silly.
Silly like Scim/Mogh/Avenger compared to older Cstore ships, like Tac Escort Retro or Galaxy-X? Or silly like that auto-ban censorship Cryptic used in 2013? Or silly like recent Beam Overload changes?
Judging from the above, I'm half-expecting VA level bridge officer slots (just like 5-ability kits). And maybe 11 console slots. And Lobi store upgrades for older ships.
I really, really hope it will not turn out to be like that. Cause recent game changes look like attempt at "how fast we can alienate and dissuade our playerbase".
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should. moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
There will be T6 cruisers, science vessels, etc. There will ALSO be something new.
Can you please clarify if that 'new' thing is the "special" part people here quote Al Rivera saying?
Or to put it simply, can you confirm/deny that the current T5 ships in their respective classes, when upgraded to their T6 variant won't have shortcommings (like one less comm array for ex.) compared to their brand new T6 counterparts?
I am absolutely against Tier 6 ships. I've been against the Ship Tier system from, pretty much Beta on. I've always said that Starfleet never throws ships away if they're still useful. No matter how old they are. Look at Oberth, Miranda, Centaur, Excelsior and Ambassador Class ships. These are some of the oldest designs used during the TNG-era. And they were still in service, because the ships had massive refit/retrofit-ability that made them viable in the 24th century. Why would they not continue to have that viability in the early 25th century? And the 24th century designs would certainly be even MORE likely to still be in service in 2409/2410, seeing as how their hull lives are practically a century or more.
My point? That all the canon ships in the game, should have the ability to be upgraded (aka refitted/retrofitted) to T6 in the new expansion, and beyond. Suricata had a GREAT idea on how to pull this off - Computer Core consoles. His suggestion allowed for three types of Cores - Engineering, Science, and Tactical. Each core would set up the ship to match the player's rank/level in the game, and role for the ship. And that certain computer cores could be limited, or provide bonuses to, the appropriate type of ship. IE - Engineering Cores would either be limited to Cruisers, or would provide bonus stat boosts if used on Cruisers. Personally, I liked limiting Computer Core types to ship type - IE Engineering cores usable only on Cruisers, Tac cores on Escorts, and Sci on Sci ships. Anyway, the BOff and console layouts would be "upgraded" (retrofitted/refitted) to whatever layout a Cruiser/Escort/SV would have at that player's rank/level bracket. That way, players could keep their favorite ship design, without being forced to upgrade to a selection of ships that they don't like. It also meant, greater variety of ships at end-game. And, if the game developers don't like making older ships useless, then this is the BEST option for them imho.
But, it's too much to hope for. All they'll do is release Fleet versions, and "upgrade" options to make the fleet versions comparable to Tier 6 ships, or make Fleet versions of Tier 6 ships, just so they can milk us for every dime, zen, and dilithium we've got. Frankly, this is why I hate Cryptic.
Silly like Scim/Mogh/Avenger compared to older Cstore ships, like Tac Escort Retro or Galaxy-X? Or silly like that auto-ban censorship Cryptic used in 2013? Or silly like recent Beam Overload changes?
Judging from the above, I'm half-expecting VA level bridge officer slots (just like 5-ability kits). And maybe 11 console slots. And Lobi store upgrades for older ships.
I really, really hope it will not turn out to be like that. Cause recent game changes look like attempt at "how fast we can alienate and dissuade our playerbase".
I would be okey with a Cstore or Dilithium or EC upgrade for items/ships, but a lobi is just a bit too much.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Silly like Scim/Mogh/Avenger compared to older Cstore ships, like Tac Escort Retro or Galaxy-X? Or silly like that auto-ban censorship Cryptic used in 2013? Or silly like recent Beam Overload changes?
Judging from the above, I'm half-expecting VA level bridge officer slots (just like 5-ability kits). And maybe 11 console slots. And Lobi store upgrades for older ships.
I really, really hope it will not turn out to be like that. Cause recent game changes look like attempt at "how fast we can alienate and dissuade our playerbase".
I understand everyone's concerns. As someone with OVER 40 C-store ships - I obviously have a vested interest in what happens.
I am a ship person- so yes it is more then likely I will get the new Tier 6 class/line regardless of how much more advanced they are.
Personally I don't believe they will make my older ships obsolete. Will the new ships be better? YES - absolutely they will. But I can still Faceroll content in this game with the T5 "free" ships you get. So I am not that worried about the new T 6 class/line.
Comments
Disappointment over what? Something you don't understand? We barely have any information here. This is the first release of data. This is the part where we're supposed to remain cautious, but not jump to conclusions based on some kind of emotional investment in the game.
You don't know what the abilities are. You don't know how they work. You don't know how they are compared to the current ships.
You're speculating that your ship will not be 'top level' based on personal opinion, which hasn't been verified nor debunked by reality.
Not jumping onto the knee-jerk bandwagon like the Terran Empire version of First Contact is apparently riding a high horse.
But feel free to loot and pillage what you don't understand or comprehend based on initial revelations.
The original Enterprise, and the proceeding Enterprise-A, wasn't the Federation flagship. The Enterprise is only directly mentioned as being the flagship of the Federation once TNG came out. Also, Geordi mentions that the Enterprise-E is the most advanced ship in the fleet at the time in First Contact.
Incidentally, the Enterpise-B launched the same year that the Enterprise-A was retired in 2293. So, roll on Enterprise-G!
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
And you believe them? Just a few weeks ago they absolutely denied T6 ships were ever going to happen. Now we know that they are infact in the works.
Im not saying you wont be able to atleast be in the general ballpark of a T6 ship. But I doubt Cryptics idea of 'competitive' is the same as the playerbases.
New Tier 6 ship - Sciiminicor Temporal Heavy Carrier Attack Ship Dreadnaught
Captain Universal Slot
Commander everything else
20 Tac consoles, 10 Engineering, 1 Science
Cruiser Commands and Secondary Deflector
Can equip any console ever in the game.
Console - Universal - Taunt Tier 5 Vessels (Instantly kicks any Tier 5 vessel from any queued event)
I look at what is available on STOWiki at "Tier V" level of ships... there are three types:
- Rear Admiral ships (this level includes lock box and promotion ships)
- C-Store ships
- Fleet ships
Personally, in my drydock, I have a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit, which (among other things) has around 50,000 hull strength. My Odyssey Operations Cruiser has around 60,000 hull strength. Now, they have said that you will be able to "upgrade" your ships at the new level 60 cap... whatever this will be, it's a good call since ALL lock box and Lobi ships are usable at level 40. That's quite a jump.Given all of this... how good will these new T6 ships actually be? Also, why would lock box & Lobi ships be automatically "obsolete"? Out of the "box," these ships are good, but not great. You have to mod them with consoles... and then, knowing how to use them helps, LOL.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not buying another ship until X2 drops (with the possible exception of the Bug)... but, still, I don't think it's quite the end of all things... especially with no dev blogs yet.
Source?
Most of the playerbase is dumb. I'm okay with them not going with the playerbase's ideas on the matter.
Yes we should remind everyone that it is highly unlikely that there will be a "Significant/substantial" gap between upgraded T5 ships and the new T6 class(I hope:rolleyes:) - it would be a PR nightmare if they made the new T6 line just out-of-the-park better than the older ships.
Could they do it so that the Tier 6 class makes even the upgraded tier 5 - look obsolete? Sure they could - but I highly doubt they would be that silly.
Look for just enough gimmicks to make a lot of people say - I have to have thes new Tier 6 ships.
Just look at the Apple Iphones - each generation is just a fraction better than the last - but people line up to get that extra 5% boost - when no-one really needs it.
Thus I simply said that from the current information availible - "It doesn't bode well".
I didn't rage or scream DOOOOM!!! :rolleyes:
Thus I simply just said that from the current information availible - "It doesn't bode well". I didn't rage, I didn't yell DOOM, I didn't say Cryptic robbed me or claim that we're screwed before hand.
The only thing I did wrong is try to rationally explain something to a person with a superiority complex. I apologize for that.
Nope, but your smug and superior sounding comment, where you made 2 false asumptions on someone you don't know in a single sentence sure sounded like riding the high-horse.
also would it be posiable to get a command line for noclip or ghost or whatever ya want to call it when exploring your own map in foundry so if you are doing a good sized map ya can get around check for errors discrepancys
ps
can we get more customization on the ships more colors more ability to not look like every smo out there
valued customer kritters
I'll give you my source when you give me your source for 'most of the playerbase'
I'll give you my source of the playerbase when you give me your source of the playerbase.
My translator from bull to english says that means hulls will not get an upgrade but you can buy all new Mk XIV gear if you want
See, for ex. I'm fine with this if you interpret it the right way. If they bring that new class they mentioned and that class is limited to T6 ships, plus it has separate abilities like the raider flanking and the cruiser comm arrays - it's fine. Because it's a separate class.
What I wouldn't like to happen is if a new T6 cruiser has special abilities over my "upgraded" T6 cruiser, that my old one will never get access to.
I sure hope you got it right in your assumption on this.
Stats on the T6 etc.?
like say every T6 ship gets 14 bo slots..
then i guess all our old ship can be upgraded to have 14 bo slots, but none of the new type
so that way they can put all those new powers with the new bo type which only the new ships get.. so you are competative in that you have the same number of bo slots and so forth, but you can never have access to the new bo type
that way it all depends on what that new skills of the new bo type are like
edit: i further assume the new class is some kind of war ship and the first one will be the warship voyager ultra pack with the new interior and all
I updated the OP with this message - so lets keep that in mind:
Well thanks to the Cryptic Dev for the Tease!!
An entirely NEW CLASS of ships?? Maybe a Civilian ship:P
Please don't be a tease!!!;)
Now dnt TEASE us.thats just mean. When r u gonna tell us Jheinig?
Silly like Scim/Mogh/Avenger compared to older Cstore ships, like Tac Escort Retro or Galaxy-X? Or silly like that auto-ban censorship Cryptic used in 2013? Or silly like recent Beam Overload changes?
Judging from the above, I'm half-expecting VA level bridge officer slots (just like 5-ability kits). And maybe 11 console slots. And Lobi store upgrades for older ships.
I really, really hope it will not turn out to be like that. Cause recent game changes look like attempt at "how fast we can alienate and dissuade our playerbase".
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
Can you please clarify if that 'new' thing is the "special" part people here quote Al Rivera saying?
Or to put it simply, can you confirm/deny that the current T5 ships in their respective classes, when upgraded to their T6 variant won't have shortcommings (like one less comm array for ex.) compared to their brand new T6 counterparts?
Come buy our new ships they are shiny! :rolleyes:
I bet a 67 chevy can outperform most "new" cars if they are kept in good condition...
IT'S THE WHALE PROBE, ISN'T IT!?!?!?!
Special BOff slot is (duh) a WHALE. Special power is to vaporize the water in the new Xindi-SeaQuest.
My point? That all the canon ships in the game, should have the ability to be upgraded (aka refitted/retrofitted) to T6 in the new expansion, and beyond. Suricata had a GREAT idea on how to pull this off - Computer Core consoles. His suggestion allowed for three types of Cores - Engineering, Science, and Tactical. Each core would set up the ship to match the player's rank/level in the game, and role for the ship. And that certain computer cores could be limited, or provide bonuses to, the appropriate type of ship. IE - Engineering Cores would either be limited to Cruisers, or would provide bonus stat boosts if used on Cruisers. Personally, I liked limiting Computer Core types to ship type - IE Engineering cores usable only on Cruisers, Tac cores on Escorts, and Sci on Sci ships. Anyway, the BOff and console layouts would be "upgraded" (retrofitted/refitted) to whatever layout a Cruiser/Escort/SV would have at that player's rank/level bracket. That way, players could keep their favorite ship design, without being forced to upgrade to a selection of ships that they don't like. It also meant, greater variety of ships at end-game. And, if the game developers don't like making older ships useless, then this is the BEST option for them imho.
But, it's too much to hope for. All they'll do is release Fleet versions, and "upgrade" options to make the fleet versions comparable to Tier 6 ships, or make Fleet versions of Tier 6 ships, just so they can milk us for every dime, zen, and dilithium we've got. Frankly, this is why I hate Cryptic.
I would be okey with a Cstore or Dilithium or EC upgrade for items/ships, but a lobi is just a bit too much.
I understand everyone's concerns. As someone with OVER 40 C-store ships - I obviously have a vested interest in what happens.
I am a ship person- so yes it is more then likely I will get the new Tier 6 class/line regardless of how much more advanced they are.
Personally I don't believe they will make my older ships obsolete. Will the new ships be better? YES - absolutely they will. But I can still Faceroll content in this game with the T5 "free" ships you get. So I am not that worried about the new T 6 class/line.