Well, eventually they may just nerf the skill so much, that it will once again become undesirable.
They have already nerfed it to the point of being undesirable. A lot of people dumped it after playing with it for a few days after seeing it wasn't really that good. Today I didn't even come across one single case of BO in PvP and that's before this new nerf. I have already dumped BO on all my setups its just not worth taking anymore.
It was only so common for the first few days as players wanted to try the new changes.
Maybe you hung out in Ker'rat too much before and Mini kept vaping you, but under the old BO mechanics, there were only 2 players that dealt nasty BOs, and I was fina as long as they didn't crit and acted fast.
....
Compare that to the new change where no one has a nasty BO. Even on a crit the new BO doesnt bother me or 1 shot kill. Yes cruiser and sci ships can hit harder than before but wasnt that one of the goals of the skill change.
I thought the goal was to improve damage so its not a net DPS loss. Reduce peak damage output to reduce 1 shot kills. That is just what the BO change has done.
sounds to me like your problem is with APO, not BO. Admitted, I think it's slop game design to have BO or FAW running without power drain. There are, IIRC, duty officers that shorten your cooldown on EVASIVE, I've seen enough big, sluggy cruisers zipping around at Escort speeds to indicate there may be other things that can boost your defense... not to mention sci powers and the Romulan Rep Tier 4 ability that placates, the placate on the KHG set bonus..
I mean, I've had enough of that stuff used on ME to know it works-even briefly, but in a fedball melee, losing your target while you're exposed is DANGEROUS, by the time you reacquire, your buffs are exhausted and you're probably trying to keep from being FAWspammed out of existence.
but then, I don't RUN Escorts, I run BOP on 3 of my levelled toons, and a Tor'khat on the fourth-I don't even BOTHER running my Feds anymore. (Thus, the persistent lack of Marion. I won't spend what the exchange demands for a duty officer that requires sacrificing one to three slots of other officers whose abilities boost my movement or defense-the Bird of Prey is not a tanky ride, and the Tork layout I use wouldn't benefit from Marion.)
I do have a problem with APO but not like I do with this BO BS.
Sure, SOME cruisers and sci ships can be made to be zippy, but never as much as an escort, thus never achieving the defensive boost that an escort will, and will have used valuable DOFF space resulting in them not being as able to do much else.
I do have a problem with APO but not like I do with this BO BS.
Sure, SOME cruisers and sci ships can be made to be zippy, but never as much as an escort, thus never achieving the defensive boost that an escort will, and will have used valuable DOFF space resulting in them not being as able to do much else.
That’s not true. For fun I once made my Odyssey have over 50 turn rate. Getting the max defense boost is easy for a Cruiser. Not so much for a sci ship mind you but cruisers have eng powers and eng consoles all that boost turn rate.
It wasn’t turn rate I had problems with, but Inertia which Undine engine help fix. BO is not BS it’s about right now and with the new tribble patch notes nerfed beyond useful ness due to players overreacting.
Glad that you agree with me that the BO hysteria is hyerbole. Even more so with the damage nerf on Tribble.
I agreed with you?Where?This is PvP forum not your PvE forum...your "kill npcs fast" or "i want more power creep....nerf npcs" won't work here ,unless you get in pvp because Im pretty sure for PvPers you count as npc there :rolleyes:
Tried peeveepee again today, just to see how it was going.
Guess which was the ability that killed well over 80% of all people?
No, it wasn't Hazard Emitters.
I'm tiring of this. Cryptic, you need your head read for what you did to the game. And 13% upcoming nerf? It's not going to be enough.
Still, I'll continue voting with my wallet and my greatly diminished logging on time.
13% is way too much. Its already barely useful now and 13% will push it back into the useless area again.
As for what killed 80% of people no idea. After 2 days of matchs is wasn't BO that I came across. In fact BO kill rate was so low today it barely made up 1% of kills in matchs I was in.
Its less about the (few) one-shot kills and more about the increased number of instant kills, sometimes they are the same thing sometimes not. With a group of tractor beams on target, you will not miss, you can buff crtd as high as you want. Also the lack of power drain means spamming BO/CRF with no penalty at all.
There was a team rolling through arena last night with this setup, just spamming TB and reverse-TBR and TB mines and GW and anything else, then a hitman with BO flying around popping the targets, sometimes it took a couple of tries but always a win eventually. 15-0 all three times I fought them before shutting off. This change wont do anything about that.
and FAW is still better in PVE because the maps are almost all multi-target
13% is way too much. Its already barely useful now and 13% will push it back into the useless area again.
lol
Before the patch BO was strong enough that every good pvp-er used BO3 instead of any CRF, because using CRF was (and is) much much more difficult depleting your opponent's shield and dealing hull damage. This if the BO was a critical hit
Now after the patch, everyone has 132-140 crtd just using fllet tactical consoles and a BO3 is always a massive hull damage. All in all if before the patch cannons were not so much usefull, now cannons are absolutelly useless... every escort can fight just using a single DBB and no others weapons.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
lol
Before the patch BO was strong enough that every good pvp-er used BO3 instead of any CRF, because using CRF was (and is) much much more difficult depleting your opponent's shield and dealing hull damage. This if the BO was a critical hit
Now after the patch, everyone has 132-140 crtd just using fllet tactical consoles and a BO3 is always a massive hull damage. All in all if before the patch cannons were not so much usefull, now cannons are absolutelly useless... every escort can fight just using a single DBB and no others weapons.
In 1v1 I have yet to experience BO3 even getting to hull yet alone doing massive hull damage. BO3 if it got to hull would barely do 20% hull damage to me if I have my math is right as a Crusier. As an Escort with zero shields it should only take out 50% hull with decent setup. But it has to take down shields first and its not got enough damage to tank down a small shield tank. An Escort with a single DBB and no other weapon is going to be pretty useless.
An Escort with a single DBB and no other weapon is going to be pretty useless.
That is unchanged from before the buff. The difference is that you can spam it now, in addition to whatever else you are using, and you have a new option of coupling it with CRF that was not viable before.
Sometimes you build for BO to punch a hole in the shileds, sometimes you build for BO to punch hull after something else made a hole. Sometimes you ignore shields, like with Elachi DBB (100% bypass on proc) and penetration DOFF (fill in gaps on Elachi CRF after BO doesnt proc).
Not sure why it was necessary to change BO like this in the first place,
however... a total reduction to 50% of the Original Base Damage would be appropriate.
Otherwise -with 100%CrtH and 0% Drain- it remains a ridiculous overpowered Ability compare to other Skills/Weapons.
Not sure why it was necessary to change BO like this in the first place,
however... a total reduction to 50% of the Original Base Damage would be appropriate.
Otherwise -with 100%CrtH and 0% Drain- it remains a ridiculous overpowered Ability compare to other Skills/Weapons.
Oh, you mean like the ground tac module inspiration?
Two Changes Ago: Base * (1 + Weapon Power Boost) * (1 + BO Boost) * (1 + SumAllStrength) * (1 + SumAllBonus)
One Change Ago: Base * 0.75 * (1 + Weapon Power Boost) * (1 + BO Boost) * (1 + SumAllStrength) * (1 + SumAllBonus)
Coming Change: Base * 0.65 * (1 + Weapon Power Boost) * (1 + BO Boost) * (1 + SumAllStrength) * (1 + SumAllBonus)
You went from a 130 base to a 97.5 base to a 84.5 base.
Every boost you had going, whether strength or bonus was first reduced by 25% and now has been reduced by 35% compared to what it was when 130 was the base. Cause modifying the base is a final modifier..
In my opinion, the main balance issue with BO (and all really bursty abilities) was that crit chance had gone through the roof due to romulans and spire consoles. This turned once-in-a-blue-moon super shots into a common thing which isn't that much fun for the receiving side.
Instead of rebalancing the amount of CrtH in the game, they decided to sidstep the issue and bypass CrtH entirely in order to "fix BO". In the process, they might end up removing the super high numbers completely instead of making them much rarer again which ultimately makes BO boring because there is no chance anymore that one gets this rare super crit that one can tell one's grandchildren about.
The New FAW ideology of "clicking an ability always has to yield better results than not clicking it" wins again.
And really: Who felt that BO was useless in PVE? Sure, it wasn't impressive in STFs and such with their gazillion hitpoint NPCs, just like TachBeam or CPB have always been. But I always found my BO to be quite nice in single player PVE missions where it was often good enough to deal a fatal blow to that one regular NPC at a time that one encounters.
In my opinion, the main balance issue with BO (and all really bursty abilities) was that crit chance had gone through the roof due to romulans and spire consoles. This turned once-in-a-blue-moon super shots into a common thing which isn't that much fun for the receiving side.
Instead of rebalancing the amount of CrtH in the game, they decided to sidstep the issue and bypass CrtH entirely in order to "fix BO". In the process, they might end up removing the super high numbers completely instead of making them much rarer again which ultimately makes BO boring because there is no chance anymore that one gets this rare super crit that one can tell one's grandchildren about.
The New FAW ideology of "clicking an ability always has to yield better results than not clicking it" wins again.
And really: Who felt that BO was useless in PVE? Sure, it wasn't impressive in STFs and such with their gazillion hitpoint NPCs, just like TachBeam or CPB have always been. But I always found my BO to be quite nice in single player PVE missions where it was often good enough to deal a fatal blow to that one regular NPC at a time that one encounters.
Agreed, bo3 was fun, unpredictable and a gamble when you you see the big numbers it out a smile on your face. Now its turning into mediocrity, boring and predictable. I feel sorry for bops and even tvaros, another game dynamic gone.
In my opinion, the main balance issue with BO (and all really bursty abilities) was that crit chance had gone through the roof due to romulans and spire consoles. This turned once-in-a-blue-moon super shots into a common thing which isn't that much fun for the receiving side.
Instead of rebalancing the amount of CrtH in the game, they decided to sidstep the issue and bypass CrtH entirely in order to "fix BO". In the process, they might end up removing the super high numbers completely instead of making them much rarer again which ultimately makes BO boring because there is no chance anymore that one gets this rare super crit that one can tell one's grandchildren about.
The New FAW ideology of "clicking an ability always has to yield better results than not clicking it" wins again.
And really: Who felt that BO was useless in PVE? Sure, it wasn't impressive in STFs and such with their gazillion hitpoint NPCs, just like TachBeam or CPB have always been. But I always found my BO to be quite nice in single player PVE missions where it was often good enough to deal a fatal blow to that one regular NPC at a time that one encounters.
thats why i thought this had potential to be a good change, that just needs a round or 2 of tweeks to dial in. the only problem is that severity is a variable that was not properly accounted for, or the spire tac consoles, so we are in a way worse then before. those with all severity consoles have a big advantage, those with crit chance consoles dont help at all.
if i have to pve, i always take a sci heavy escort that can run AtB on and spam TS3, GW1 and CSV. anything else, especially BO, drags pve out much longer then id like.
And really: Who felt that BO was useless in PVE? Sure, it wasn't impressive in STFs and such with their gazillion hitpoint NPCs, just like TachBeam or CPB have always been. But I always found my BO to be quite nice in single player PVE missions where it was often good enough to deal a fatal blow to that one regular NPC at a time that one encounters.
Not only nice, but very useful.
Cube -> BO -> shield facing gone -> FoMM -> ramming a plasma HY as close as possible to the cube -> half the hitpoints gone.
Raptor -> APA + FoMM + Tac Initiative -> Raptor gone in 15 seconds. But that was obviously not enough for those who insist that a properly executed STF should not last more than a New York minute.
Science for the win. / Czechoslovak Fleet 1st Division
Well, I cant speak for him, but in my eyes APO is indeed the biggest issue. It does too much. Th immunity to all holds and snares is bad enough on its own. Why does it then also need a damage resistance and a damage buff?
Compared to Beta and Delta (wih the "Tactical Team is needed for shield redistribution by anyone and also clears the Attack Pattern debuffs en passant" issue still being there), Omega is three times as useful.
because it is primarily designed for tac and without it, any sci could hold a tac still anytime they want and then a tac's defenses would be at 0 to -15 (defiant) and they'd go down fast. Just how many slots do you think a tac has for science to counter science? On my b'rel, I have 1, but I also have universals. most escorts do not have that, they have static boffs. On a b'rel I can compensate for a nerf to APO, but on most escorts, they cannot. Cryptic would have to go through and redesign boffs slots on most escorts to give them another sci.. for example, the useless tac ensign on the defiant or xindi escort, etc... And most of those tacs, I bet, would put on PH1
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Hmmmmm....let's see - a thread in the PvP subforum dedicated to BO changes leads to a direct and almost instant nerf.
Color me shocked!!!! Shocked, I say!
Oh no, those horrible PvPers struck again. Well, I supposed somebody has to point out balance issues since NPC's don't complain. Seriously, how bad are you that you actually need it in its current form to compete in PvE?
Oh no, those horrible PvPers struck again. Well, I supposed somebody has to point out balance issues since NPC's don't complain. Seriously, how bad are you that you actually need it in its current form to compete in PvE?
But but... ISE has to be done in less than 30 seconds for me to efficiently grind all 24 of my chars in 1 hour for absolute maximum mindless pve efficiency. While were on the subject, borg spheres using epte makes my b/o's miss cuz im bad at pve. Please help. :rolleyes:
Seriously, B/O changes were a lil over the top with sudden implement to holodeck. Not sure how this wasnt expected...
You can, but BO is the way to deliver massive damage in a single shoot, while using crf you need to point at your target for several seconds giving to your opponent all the time he needs to activate tt, tss, epts, st... moreover you have several way to deliver direct hull damage despite shields.
I do not need crf, using doffs or AtB builds I can fire bo3 every 15 seconds and since a bo is always a critical hit and I can easly have 160% crtd every hit is at least 20-30k damage and often deadly.
And I do not need to point at my enemy... just click on attack patterns and bo3... then run as fast as possible and wait 1 or 2 seconds to see my shoot.
No surprise if crf2 and crf3 are becoming obsolete.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
You can, but BO is the way to deliver massive damage in a single shoot, while using crf you need to point at your target for several seconds giving to your opponent all the time he needs to activate tt, tss, epts, st... moreover you have several way to deliver direct hull damage despite shields.
I do not need crf, using doffs or AtB builds I can fire bo3 every 15 seconds and since a bo is always a critical hit and I can easly have 160% crtd every hit is at least 20-30k damage and often deadly.
And I do not need to point at my enemy... just click on attack patterns and bo3... then run as fast as possible and wait 1 or 2 seconds to see my shoot.
No surprise if crf2 and crf3 are becoming obsolete.
Are not aware that BO requires you to point at your target for several seconds while it chargers up and the charge up sound gives your target time to activate tt, tss, epts, and so on. As soon as I hear the BO charge up sound I hit resistance powers and TT then watch my shields be at 50% after the BO 3 hit.
Comments
It was only so common for the first few days as players wanted to try the new changes.
I thought the goal was to improve damage so its not a net DPS loss. Reduce peak damage output to reduce 1 shot kills. That is just what the BO change has done.
I do have a problem with APO but not like I do with this BO BS.
Sure, SOME cruisers and sci ships can be made to be zippy, but never as much as an escort, thus never achieving the defensive boost that an escort will, and will have used valuable DOFF space resulting in them not being as able to do much else.
It wasn’t turn rate I had problems with, but Inertia which Undine engine help fix. BO is not BS it’s about right now and with the new tribble patch notes nerfed beyond useful ness due to players overreacting.
I agreed with you?Where?This is PvP forum not your PvE forum...your "kill npcs fast" or "i want more power creep....nerf npcs" won't work here ,unless you get in pvp because Im pretty sure for PvPers you count as npc there :rolleyes:
Guess which was the ability that killed well over 80% of all people?
No, it wasn't Hazard Emitters.
I'm tiring of this. Cryptic, you need your head read for what you did to the game. And 13% upcoming nerf? It's not going to be enough.
Still, I'll continue voting with my wallet and my greatly diminished logging on time.
As for what killed 80% of people no idea. After 2 days of matchs is wasn't BO that I came across. In fact BO kill rate was so low today it barely made up 1% of kills in matchs I was in.
BO never was useless, and 13% is not enough to stop 1 shot kills.
There was a team rolling through arena last night with this setup, just spamming TB and reverse-TBR and TB mines and GW and anything else, then a hitman with BO flying around popping the targets, sometimes it took a couple of tries but always a win eventually. 15-0 all three times I fought them before shutting off. This change wont do anything about that.
and FAW is still better in PVE because the maps are almost all multi-target
lol
Before the patch BO was strong enough that every good pvp-er used BO3 instead of any CRF, because using CRF was (and is) much much more difficult depleting your opponent's shield and dealing hull damage. This if the BO was a critical hit
Now after the patch, everyone has 132-140 crtd just using fllet tactical consoles and a BO3 is always a massive hull damage. All in all if before the patch cannons were not so much usefull, now cannons are absolutelly useless... every escort can fight just using a single DBB and no others weapons.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
In 1v1 I have yet to experience BO3 even getting to hull yet alone doing massive hull damage. BO3 if it got to hull would barely do 20% hull damage to me if I have my math is right as a Crusier. As an Escort with zero shields it should only take out 50% hull with decent setup. But it has to take down shields first and its not got enough damage to tank down a small shield tank. An Escort with a single DBB and no other weapon is going to be pretty useless.
Sometimes you build for BO to punch a hole in the shileds, sometimes you build for BO to punch hull after something else made a hole. Sometimes you ignore shields, like with Elachi DBB (100% bypass on proc) and penetration DOFF (fill in gaps on Elachi CRF after BO doesnt proc).
But i dont think its enough.
Not sure why it was necessary to change BO like this in the first place,
however... a total reduction to 50% of the Original Base Damage would be appropriate.
Otherwise -with 100%CrtH and 0% Drain- it remains a ridiculous overpowered Ability compare to other Skills/Weapons.
Oh, you mean like the ground tac module inspiration?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
One Change Ago: Base * 0.75 * (1 + Weapon Power Boost) * (1 + BO Boost) * (1 + SumAllStrength) * (1 + SumAllBonus)
Coming Change: Base * 0.65 * (1 + Weapon Power Boost) * (1 + BO Boost) * (1 + SumAllStrength) * (1 + SumAllBonus)
You went from a 130 base to a 97.5 base to a 84.5 base.
Every boost you had going, whether strength or bonus was first reduced by 25% and now has been reduced by 35% compared to what it was when 130 was the base. Cause modifying the base is a final modifier..
Here's the past 24hr of top hits from Hilbert's leaderboard: http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/?timeframe=daily&top10=1&
Once this goes live, those numbers will be ~10% lower again.
Instead of rebalancing the amount of CrtH in the game, they decided to sidstep the issue and bypass CrtH entirely in order to "fix BO". In the process, they might end up removing the super high numbers completely instead of making them much rarer again which ultimately makes BO boring because there is no chance anymore that one gets this rare super crit that one can tell one's grandchildren about.
The New FAW ideology of "clicking an ability always has to yield better results than not clicking it" wins again.
And really: Who felt that BO was useless in PVE? Sure, it wasn't impressive in STFs and such with their gazillion hitpoint NPCs, just like TachBeam or CPB have always been. But I always found my BO to be quite nice in single player PVE missions where it was often good enough to deal a fatal blow to that one regular NPC at a time that one encounters.
Agreed, bo3 was fun, unpredictable and a gamble when you you see the big numbers it out a smile on your face. Now its turning into mediocrity, boring and predictable. I feel sorry for bops and even tvaros, another game dynamic gone.
thats why i thought this had potential to be a good change, that just needs a round or 2 of tweeks to dial in. the only problem is that severity is a variable that was not properly accounted for, or the spire tac consoles, so we are in a way worse then before. those with all severity consoles have a big advantage, those with crit chance consoles dont help at all.
if i have to pve, i always take a sci heavy escort that can run AtB on and spam TS3, GW1 and CSV. anything else, especially BO, drags pve out much longer then id like.
Not only nice, but very useful.
Cube -> BO -> shield facing gone -> FoMM -> ramming a plasma HY as close as possible to the cube -> half the hitpoints gone.
Raptor -> APA + FoMM + Tac Initiative -> Raptor gone in 15 seconds. But that was obviously not enough for those who insist that a properly executed STF should not last more than a New York minute.
because it is primarily designed for tac and without it, any sci could hold a tac still anytime they want and then a tac's defenses would be at 0 to -15 (defiant) and they'd go down fast. Just how many slots do you think a tac has for science to counter science? On my b'rel, I have 1, but I also have universals. most escorts do not have that, they have static boffs. On a b'rel I can compensate for a nerf to APO, but on most escorts, they cannot. Cryptic would have to go through and redesign boffs slots on most escorts to give them another sci.. for example, the useless tac ensign on the defiant or xindi escort, etc... And most of those tacs, I bet, would put on PH1
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Color me shocked!!!! Shocked, I say!
Oh no, those horrible PvPers struck again. Well, I supposed somebody has to point out balance issues since NPC's don't complain. Seriously, how bad are you that you actually need it in its current form to compete in PvE?
But but... ISE has to be done in less than 30 seconds for me to efficiently grind all 24 of my chars in 1 hour for absolute maximum mindless pve efficiency. While were on the subject, borg spheres using epte makes my b/o's miss cuz im bad at pve. Please help. :rolleyes:
Seriously, B/O changes were a lil over the top with sudden implement to holodeck. Not sure how this wasnt expected...
You can, but BO is the way to deliver massive damage in a single shoot, while using crf you need to point at your target for several seconds giving to your opponent all the time he needs to activate tt, tss, epts, st... moreover you have several way to deliver direct hull damage despite shields.
I do not need crf, using doffs or AtB builds I can fire bo3 every 15 seconds and since a bo is always a critical hit and I can easly have 160% crtd every hit is at least 20-30k damage and often deadly.
And I do not need to point at my enemy... just click on attack patterns and bo3... then run as fast as possible and wait 1 or 2 seconds to see my shoot.
No surprise if crf2 and crf3 are becoming obsolete.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Geko in podcast few months ago:
"I'd nerf cannons but cant do that because people will cry on the forums so Ill buff beams" .
here is your Geko Game Design...probably the only person who never got in game to see how it looks lol