So only ppl with FB-Account are able to ask questions? Wouldn't it be nice to have our own forum so we don't have to use 3rd-party-hosts? Oh ... wait ...:mad:
Priority One is still not Cryptic, and it's completely there choice where they let you post questions.
AFAIK, pretty much any of the podcasts and stuff where Cryptic employees appear is on their private time. If you want Cryptic to handle this, that means these employees would work less for the game itself and more for doing interviews. Do you want that?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The new UI as stated countless time while on tribble, is simply horrible. Feedback was appropriately given from the players testing the new UI, but Cryptic decided not to listen. Reinstating the options of the old UI like choosing doff traits and quality is a must do, the new UI just dumps every doff available and it takes forever to change them.
Time to LISTEN cryptic, this used to be your moto a few months ago!
The new UI as stated countless time while on tribble, is simply horrible. Feedback was appropriately given from the players testing the new UI, but Cryptic decided not to listen. Reinstating the options of the old UI like choosing doff traits and quality is a must do, the new UI just dumps every doff available and it takes forever to change them.
Time to LISTEN cryptic, this used to be your moto a few months ago!
This isn't a case of not listening. It is only speculation. On my part, but it could be a lead designer too proud/stubborn to admit the UI is terrible. A system that already has too much time/cash spent to just flush down the drain or perhaps they still feel they can work out the "kinks."
If you want Cryptic to handle this, that means these employees would work less for the game itself and more for doing interviews. Do you want that?
I know this is going to be misinterpreted as trolling or feeding a troll or whatever, but it's a fair question and I'll answer it honestly:
Yes, if the folks that will "work less for the game itself and more for doing interviews" are the ones that insisted on messing with the doffing UI. I'm not even faulting the UI folks... I'm not impressed by their results, but if the decision makers had allowed them to focus solely on refining the crafting UI we'd still have both the "classic" doffing UI and an improved crafting UI. Having the UI staff to split their attention across two systems at the same time has resulted in the loss of one perfectly good UI and the release of another that could still use further refinement. Those decision makers would have better served us doing interviews, maybe hearing and responding to feedback in their decision-making process, or just buying coffee for the CM's that have to deal with this shipstorm.
Fire 'em for releasing it too early sure. But I will admit that it has potential.
Again, remember the folks working on the UI are not the ones that establish the release dates. Project management here needs to include more of a buffer in order to address Tribble testing feedback and have time to respond, as well as avoiding the scope creep that allowed the doffing UI to be altered in the process of performing a crafting revamp. The hard set deadlines that resulted in unnecessary changes and unfinished systems going live is at issue as much as the actual outputs we're seeing now.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
The DOFF system was just fine the way it was. They need to add the filters back to make it usable. When I select a DOFF to be part of a mission remove him from the list of officers to choose from. I have some duplicate officers and never know which one was already selected.
.
OMG... that was one of those things that at first I thought was no big deal. Until I tried to do a Forced Labor mission and couldn't figure out why it wasn't working and then realized that I was just picking the same couple of Andorians over and over so it wasn't actually ever filling up.
Yea the UI is pretty bad, sad that it wasn't changed after the feedback.
The strange presentation of what you need to start a mission often fails miserably because your not shown what you actually need at a glance but have to scroll inside those tiny boxes to go through if you have the required materials that is just annoying.
Also pls change back so that the assignments are shown in descending order of time till completion.
I do not give a hoot about the current order where it is shown in descending order of department. What i need when looking at the in progress assignment is to know when are the next assignments finished, because I can plan accordingly then.
It is cryptic management's choice to IGNORE all even remotely negative feedback. This has been happening since before LoR, even. They would do something horrific, get a CRAPLOAD of negative comments on the forums, ignore it ALL, but then take the time to personally reply to the one person out of hundreds that was happy. They would then cite that person as the better representation of the masses, and using their own fake math would denounce all of the hundreds of "complainers" as not representative of the true response of players.
It was really blatant. Somebody even quoted Cryptic's own admissions against Cryptic who denied they were biased and close-minded. Cryptic started deleting all comments that could be quoted after that point, shut down and never really engaged the customer base on the same level again.
That doesn't mean they stopped ignoring the masses -- oh, they still do that with a vendetta! They just don't admit it, they don't discuss it, and they'll ban you from the forums if you question their reasons.
Yea the UI is pretty bad, sad that it wasn't changed after the feedback.
The strange presentation of what you need to start a mission often fails miserably because your not shown what you actually need at a glance but have to scroll inside those tiny boxes to go through if you have the required materials that is just annoying.
Also pls change back so that the assignments are shown in descending order of time till completion.
I do not give a hoot about the current order where it is shown in descending order of department. What i need when looking at the in progress assignment is to know when are the next assignments finished, because I can plan accordingly then.
The new UI for doffs is garbage. Important info is tiny, selecting officers is completely stupid as used doffs are not greyed out or removed from being double chosen. Doffing at clusters is still, it's a pain in the butt to keep going backwards and forwards if you need to replicate anything.
Nothing that hasn't been said before, I just wanted to vent a bit.
It is cryptic management's choice to IGNORE all even remotely negative feedback. This has been happening since before LoR, even. They would do something horrific, get a CRAPLOAD of negative comments on the forums, ignore it ALL, but then take the time to personally reply to the one person out of hundreds that was happy. They would then cite that person as the better representation of the masses, and using their own fake math would denounce all of the hundreds of "complainers" as not representative of the true response of players.
Actually that's not necessarily fake, forumgoers are a tiny minority amongst players, and probably not all that representative of the general playerbase - except when something really, really bad happens, and then lots and lots of people who don't normally come to the forums start posting.
It was really blatant. Somebody even quoted Cryptic's own admissions against Cryptic who denied they were biased and close-minded. Cryptic started deleting all comments that could be quoted after that point, shut down and never really engaged the customer base on the same level again.
That doesn't mean they stopped ignoring the masses -- oh, they still do that with a vendetta! They just don't admit it, they don't discuss it, and they'll ban you from the forums if you question their reasons.
If I were a dev, I wouldn't have official forums at all. Send your thoughts in by snail mail, if they're worth the stamp cost to you, then they might be worth listening to.
No, the math they were citing at the time was rubbish. There were folks with statistics education commenting in the threads. Cryptic were BSing everybody just to justify their own pre-formed decisions.
The entire thing was a pretense at customer relations when in fact they didn't want anything to do with feedback.
Another issue with the new UI, when using the pop up to try and sort through your own DOFFs, it's impossible to move or adjust the size of that window.
It's almost like whoever designed that piece of the UI tried to implement it in the least user-friendly way possible.
This is good. They are probably trying to lessen the Cryptic hate steamroll going on.
It's probably one of those features they couldn quite finish before launch, and then used the launch-feedback to determine wich features they should focus on first.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
It's probably one of those features they couldn quite finish before launch, and then used the launch-feedback to determine wich features they should focus on first.
Still. It would lessen the blow of the rage against Cryptic. Although I think the older format was more efficient.
Except it'll probably reset every time you hit the select button for a new slot. One of the nice things about the old system was you could filter once and use the filtered DOffs in slots other than the current one. Very useful for things like the mine holding missions where I only cared about criticals and not the overall success. Filter once on very rare & unscrupulous (or teamwork/stubborn) and voila.
Sure it's a step in the right direction, but 'til proven otherwise I'll continue to believe the old UI was quicker.
I'm going to break it down thusly. I've given it some thought, and I'm clearly of the opinion that it's not just inertia - the new UI is simply less efficient.
Feel free to agree or disagree.
1) Auto-assigning DOffs makes it more difficult to specify DOffs. The matching algorithm they use often assigns purple DOffs solely on the basis of their quality, even if they're terribly mismatched to the assignment. Obviously, my purple Bartender would be great at Calibrating Targeting Scanners. I don't know why I didn't cross-promote him before. Maybe I wanted to use that purple DOff for an assignment he'd be better suited for? The algorithm isn't capable of taking into account anything that's not the immediate assignment at hand. Auto-assignment drastically increases the number of clicks I have to use in order to take into account all of my planned assignments, not just the one at hand.
2) The assignment UI no longer clearly says up front with assignments buff-on-crit. Which is one of the major reasons I continue to DOff well past maximum commendation, especially for PvP. I know have to click through to make sure which of the 'Critical Successes' I may want to collect to maximize my buffing.
3) Identifying which assignments can't be started is more difficult. Red icons in the 'Required' field? Funny, because they're only a few shades off from the icons that specify I need Tac/Security DOffs.
I'll just say it. Cryptic, this is just bad design. A clear case of form disrupting function.
Except it'll probably reset every time you hit the select button for a new slot. One of the nice things about the old system was you could filter once and use the filtered DOffs in slots other than the current one. Very useful for things like the mine holding missions where I only cared about criticals and not the overall success. Filter once on very rare & unscrupulous (or teamwork/stubborn) and voila.
Sure it's a step in the right direction, but 'til proven otherwise I'll continue to believe the old UI was quicker.
Maybe being positive at first, and then, IF it's bad, be negative...
All new things takes some getting used to, and from experience I can tell you that no matter how much effort you put into Useability, you never hit the nail on the head in the first try.
IF you REALLY want things to be better, heres how you help the developers:
Be patient
Describe in details the flaws that you see
Be detailed when you test and provide plenty of real feedback
Understand that they can't patch every day
Saying "Yea, thats bad, I liked the old one better"... It won't get you anywhere, and the devs can't do anything but ignore what you've said.
Usually new UI's, once implemented, wont be changed back... They will however go to great lengths to find the best possible solution within the new one (it's a developer thing).
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
That's better but not much... I will reserve judgment on this doff filter until after I have tried it out. Now the devs need to focus on undoing the damage they did to the old UI and fix all the bugs this fiasco has caused.
That's better but not much... I will reserve judgment on this doff filter until after I have tried it out. Now the devs need to focus on undoing the damage they did to the old UI and fix all the bugs this fiasco has caused.
I am beginning to wonder why I even bother... You guys are set on being negative... It's not even because it's bad, it's because you want to bicker....
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Hopefully that new window is resizable and movable.
There is no need for a "NEW WINDOW"... 95% of the page is just wasted space. The contents would fit easily in the window you ALREADY have open... kind of like it was BEFORE.
Maybe being positive at first, and then, IF it's bad, be negative...
All new things takes some getting used to, and from experience I can tell you that no matter how much effort you put into Useability, you never hit the nail on the head in the first try.
IF you REALLY want things to be better, heres how you help the developers:
Be patient
Describe in details the flaws that you see
Be detailed when you test and provide plenty of real feedback
Understand that they can't patch every day
Saying "Yea, thats bad, I liked the old one better"... It won't get you anywhere, and the devs can't do anything but ignore what you've said.
Usually new UI's, once implemented, wont be changed back... They will however go to great lengths to find the best possible solution within the new one (it's a developer thing).
srsly?????
I mean there are 50 pages of constructive comments in Tribble
You seem to have it backwards... Rather than just making changes to make changes, maybe the Devs should have asked players before hand what they wanted/needed.
I offer constructive feedback on tribble. Once they release the mess like they always do I don't feel the need to be that helpful
That's a start, but it's still a pop-up selecton process (you can see part of the "Begin" button behind that pop-up selection window, on the right side). If each slot has to be filtered and selected individually, rather than filtering and filling down the list like the "classic" UI, it will still take forever to find the doff you want by comparison. It's not just the filtering that's the problem, it's that each doff required for an assignment must be selected one at a time, with separate pop-ups hiding which doffs were already slotted and the ability to unintentionally re-allocate doffs from one slot to the next.
Actually, I have some suggestions that might make the pop-up work closer to how the old UI did, in addition to the pictured filtering section:
Add buttons below "Clear Slot" and "Assign Slot" for "Previous", "Next", and "Confirm Selections" to cycle through the doff slots without automatically closing the pop-up; close the UI only with "Confirm Selections"
Add a small UI element at the top of the doff list that always shows the doff currently assigned to that slot, the size of a single doff entry in the list below
Tint the background of any currently assigned doffs in the doff list a different shade (using shading rather than color allows the distinction to be retained across differing UI color schemes) than the standard doff list background, so we can see at a glance that selecting that doff will move it from the previous slot
That would allow us to bring up the pop-up once for all of the doff selections, while retaining most the pictured UI design they've created. I'd still rather they just revert the doff UI and spend their time working on something that needs improvement, but... yeah, scope creep.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I mean there are 50 pages of constructive comments in Tribble
You seem to have it backwards... Rather than just making changes to make changes, maybe the Devs should have asked players before hand what they wanted/needed.
I offer constructive feedback on tribble. Once they release the mess like they always do I don't feel the need to be that helpful
You are missing the point... Patience
I make webpages... I think thats an area where UI, both for the user and the owner is a high priority.
One of the things I've learned in the past few years is, that while you get alot done, you can never get everything done by day one.
Even IF you get it really close, and you have alot of feedback, eventually you have to chose to drop some things you or the user would like implemented, either because it's too expensive to develop, or because you need certain other features to be in place first.
Filters for example are extremely tricky when you introduce new options into the mix...
So you didn get what you hoped for the first time around... Well heres a shock: Neither did we with the original DuOff UI...
If you remember, it took several months to get the UI to the state it was pre-9.5 ...
This new UI will eventually be very beneficial, especially now that they've found a way to monetize it futher than it was before.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I am beginning to wonder why I even bother... You guys are set on being negative... It's not even because it's bad, it's because you want to bicker....
It's hard being positive when people have been saying for over a month on tribble how bad the UI is and have offered constructive criticism of it and it was all ignored. No one asked for these changes! Plus I said I was reserving judgement on the new filter and said now the devs should actually start listening to the people who actually use the doff system religiously on how to improve it and not some UI designer who will never use it.
Also who is that professor Hawk doff and where is mine :P
Comments
Priority One is still not Cryptic, and it's completely there choice where they let you post questions.
AFAIK, pretty much any of the podcasts and stuff where Cryptic employees appear is on their private time. If you want Cryptic to handle this, that means these employees would work less for the game itself and more for doing interviews. Do you want that?
Time to LISTEN cryptic, this used to be your moto a few months ago!
This isn't a case of not listening. It is only speculation. On my part, but it could be a lead designer too proud/stubborn to admit the UI is terrible. A system that already has too much time/cash spent to just flush down the drain or perhaps they still feel they can work out the "kinks."
God I wish I was an internal tester...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Fire 'em for releasing it too early sure. But I will admit that it has potential.
I know this is going to be misinterpreted as trolling or feeding a troll or whatever, but it's a fair question and I'll answer it honestly:
Yes, if the folks that will "work less for the game itself and more for doing interviews" are the ones that insisted on messing with the doffing UI. I'm not even faulting the UI folks... I'm not impressed by their results, but if the decision makers had allowed them to focus solely on refining the crafting UI we'd still have both the "classic" doffing UI and an improved crafting UI. Having the UI staff to split their attention across two systems at the same time has resulted in the loss of one perfectly good UI and the release of another that could still use further refinement. Those decision makers would have better served us doing interviews, maybe hearing and responding to feedback in their decision-making process, or just buying coffee for the CM's that have to deal with this shipstorm.
Hey, you asked. :P
Again, remember the folks working on the UI are not the ones that establish the release dates. Project management here needs to include more of a buffer in order to address Tribble testing feedback and have time to respond, as well as avoiding the scope creep that allowed the doffing UI to be altered in the process of performing a crafting revamp. The hard set deadlines that resulted in unnecessary changes and unfinished systems going live is at issue as much as the actual outputs we're seeing now.
OMG... that was one of those things that at first I thought was no big deal. Until I tried to do a Forced Labor mission and couldn't figure out why it wasn't working and then realized that I was just picking the same couple of Andorians over and over so it wasn't actually ever filling up.
The strange presentation of what you need to start a mission often fails miserably because your not shown what you actually need at a glance but have to scroll inside those tiny boxes to go through if you have the required materials that is just annoying.
Also pls change back so that the assignments are shown in descending order of time till completion.
I do not give a hoot about the current order where it is shown in descending order of department. What i need when looking at the in progress assignment is to know when are the next assignments finished, because I can plan accordingly then.
It was really blatant. Somebody even quoted Cryptic's own admissions against Cryptic who denied they were biased and close-minded. Cryptic started deleting all comments that could be quoted after that point, shut down and never really engaged the customer base on the same level again.
That doesn't mean they stopped ignoring the masses -- oh, they still do that with a vendetta! They just don't admit it, they don't discuss it, and they'll ban you from the forums if you question their reasons.
Three, among many, very good points!
Nothing that hasn't been said before, I just wanted to vent a bit.
Actually that's not necessarily fake, forumgoers are a tiny minority amongst players, and probably not all that representative of the general playerbase - except when something really, really bad happens, and then lots and lots of people who don't normally come to the forums start posting.
If I were a dev, I wouldn't have official forums at all. Send your thoughts in by snail mail, if they're worth the stamp cost to you, then they might be worth listening to.
The entire thing was a pretense at customer relations when in fact they didn't want anything to do with feedback.
It's almost like whoever designed that piece of the UI tried to implement it in the least user-friendly way possible.
This is good. They are probably trying to lessen the Cryptic hate steamroll going on.
It's probably one of those features they couldn quite finish before launch, and then used the launch-feedback to determine wich features they should focus on first.
Still. It would lessen the blow of the rage against Cryptic. Although I think the older format was more efficient.
It's more likely that it was always planned, but didn't make it into the first two patches. Good news indeed.
Except it'll probably reset every time you hit the select button for a new slot. One of the nice things about the old system was you could filter once and use the filtered DOffs in slots other than the current one. Very useful for things like the mine holding missions where I only cared about criticals and not the overall success. Filter once on very rare & unscrupulous (or teamwork/stubborn) and voila.
Sure it's a step in the right direction, but 'til proven otherwise I'll continue to believe the old UI was quicker.
Feel free to agree or disagree.
1) Auto-assigning DOffs makes it more difficult to specify DOffs. The matching algorithm they use often assigns purple DOffs solely on the basis of their quality, even if they're terribly mismatched to the assignment. Obviously, my purple Bartender would be great at Calibrating Targeting Scanners. I don't know why I didn't cross-promote him before. Maybe I wanted to use that purple DOff for an assignment he'd be better suited for? The algorithm isn't capable of taking into account anything that's not the immediate assignment at hand. Auto-assignment drastically increases the number of clicks I have to use in order to take into account all of my planned assignments, not just the one at hand.
2) The assignment UI no longer clearly says up front with assignments buff-on-crit. Which is one of the major reasons I continue to DOff well past maximum commendation, especially for PvP. I know have to click through to make sure which of the 'Critical Successes' I may want to collect to maximize my buffing.
3) Identifying which assignments can't be started is more difficult. Red icons in the 'Required' field? Funny, because they're only a few shades off from the icons that specify I need Tac/Security DOffs.
I'll just say it. Cryptic, this is just bad design. A clear case of form disrupting function.
Maybe being positive at first, and then, IF it's bad, be negative...
All new things takes some getting used to, and from experience I can tell you that no matter how much effort you put into Useability, you never hit the nail on the head in the first try.
IF you REALLY want things to be better, heres how you help the developers:
Saying "Yea, thats bad, I liked the old one better"... It won't get you anywhere, and the devs can't do anything but ignore what you've said.
Usually new UI's, once implemented, wont be changed back... They will however go to great lengths to find the best possible solution within the new one (it's a developer thing).
I am beginning to wonder why I even bother... You guys are set on being negative... It's not even because it's bad, it's because you want to bicker....
There is no need for a "NEW WINDOW"... 95% of the page is just wasted space. The contents would fit easily in the window you ALREADY have open... kind of like it was BEFORE.
srsly?????
I mean there are 50 pages of constructive comments in Tribble
You seem to have it backwards... Rather than just making changes to make changes, maybe the Devs should have asked players before hand what they wanted/needed.
I offer constructive feedback on tribble. Once they release the mess like they always do I don't feel the need to be that helpful
That's a start, but it's still a pop-up selecton process (you can see part of the "Begin" button behind that pop-up selection window, on the right side). If each slot has to be filtered and selected individually, rather than filtering and filling down the list like the "classic" UI, it will still take forever to find the doff you want by comparison. It's not just the filtering that's the problem, it's that each doff required for an assignment must be selected one at a time, with separate pop-ups hiding which doffs were already slotted and the ability to unintentionally re-allocate doffs from one slot to the next.
Actually, I have some suggestions that might make the pop-up work closer to how the old UI did, in addition to the pictured filtering section:
- Add buttons below "Clear Slot" and "Assign Slot" for "Previous", "Next", and "Confirm Selections" to cycle through the doff slots without automatically closing the pop-up; close the UI only with "Confirm Selections"
- Add a small UI element at the top of the doff list that always shows the doff currently assigned to that slot, the size of a single doff entry in the list below
- Tint the background of any currently assigned doffs in the doff list a different shade (using shading rather than color allows the distinction to be retained across differing UI color schemes) than the standard doff list background, so we can see at a glance that selecting that doff will move it from the previous slot
That would allow us to bring up the pop-up once for all of the doff selections, while retaining most the pictured UI design they've created. I'd still rather they just revert the doff UI and spend their time working on something that needs improvement, but... yeah, scope creep.You are missing the point... Patience
I make webpages... I think thats an area where UI, both for the user and the owner is a high priority.
One of the things I've learned in the past few years is, that while you get alot done, you can never get everything done by day one.
Even IF you get it really close, and you have alot of feedback, eventually you have to chose to drop some things you or the user would like implemented, either because it's too expensive to develop, or because you need certain other features to be in place first.
Filters for example are extremely tricky when you introduce new options into the mix...
So you didn get what you hoped for the first time around... Well heres a shock: Neither did we with the original DuOff UI...
If you remember, it took several months to get the UI to the state it was pre-9.5 ...
This new UI will eventually be very beneficial, especially now that they've found a way to monetize it futher than it was before.
Also who is that professor Hawk doff and where is mine :P
no because NO ONE WANTED ANYTHING.... this was just pulled out of thin air...