You don't have a right to blah blah blah, so go earn it.
Oh and I suppose you government types, should have the right to decide what I can, and cannot have?
Sarcasm is so wonderful isn't it?
Every single argument I have seen you post in regards to money has been nothing but childish personal attacks. You don't have a right to an item you can't afford because you can't afford it and are too lazy and or arrogant to change that. Stop with your ridiculous self entitlement and stop trying to hinder other peoples game play with your ridiculous arguments, and ill conceived notions of economics.
Truthfully, the only realistic way to get billions of EC is to either speculate exclusively on the exchange (buying low, selling high) such as recently happened with Lol'Wut? Favours, or as most do, by spending real cash or coverted Dil and buying lockboxes, then selling the contents.
i.e. you need to sell a Lockbox ship in order to buy a different Lockbox ship ... And that is just the way Cryptic like it! More money for them, so it will never be changed.
Putting limits on the exchange wont work, limiting the number of items for reasons already stated, setting a Mx Price would be even worse, as this would make every item the same max price eventually ... Even the Exchange Tax that Crytpic/PWE use in Neverwinter doesn't really help, because Player invariably add extra to their prices in a misguided attempt to "cover" the extra expense ...
All you can do is play by the olde mantra ... 'if ya can't beatem', joinem'"
A "worthwhile" EC sink in the game would perhaps make a small difference, not the ridiculous idea of a 500Mil ship, as no-one but the very Tycoons the OP hates would bother, unless the ship was something sooo spectacular it was the only ship worth owning.
But of course you can't have that, as we've seen with the backlash of hate for the Scimi, and that's not that much better than many other ships ...
However, certain low level ships ... Uncommon and Rare items purchasable for EC ... Consumables that replace certain expensive Consoles (a consumed on use Plas. leech console? That lasts for 1 hour?) ... Costumes Unlocks ... Shield, Engine, Weapon 'boosters" that last for 1 hour ... Even some of the cross faction ships (many of them DO come from Ferengi merchants, so they MUST be available for sale surely?)
...
The other thing, is when players finally realise that you DO NOT need to have the 200Mil Lockbox ship in order to successfully play STO and to enjoy the game, until they realise that though, people will still look at certain ships/items as if they were some sort of Space Deity Incarnate, and the gougers will continue to charge outrageous prices for them.
Every single argument I have seen you post in regards to money has been nothing but childish personal attacks. You don't have a right to an item you can't afford because you can't afford it and are too lazy and or arrogant to change that. Stop with your ridiculous self entitlement and stop trying to hinder other peoples game play with your ridiculous arguments, and ill conceived notions of economics.
End rant.
Calling someone lazy or arrogant, telling someone to apparently stop with ridiculous self entitlement doesn't make yourself any better.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
The Exchange is part of the game that is essential to a healthy F2P environment and in-game economy. However, rapid inflation and rapid deflation of item values is really hurting the exchange. (Making it harder to find some items at fair prices AND devaluing other items.)
Specifically, when one player floods the Exchange with a massive number of a single item priced way above or way below the current market value, all those items at a new price tier usually move others to price those items at a similar inflated or deflated price as well.
Posting a few of the same items at a much higher or lower price doesn't have a big impact, but posting 20 of the same items that dramatically swing the price does.
Would it be a good idea for the devs to add a stricter limit to the number of items you can list within the same category?
For example, you can only put up to three ships for sale on the exchange at any given time or only three keys for sale at any given time?
I know some people who are active on the exchange would HATE this idea, but I'm curious if the benefits outweigh the negatives ... or if there is some terrible consequence that I'm not considering.
Its a really great idea. More limits should be on exchange to prevent all the inflation via speculation its going on right now. In fact the 500m limit should be decresed but alas that was a diferent thread wich got deralied with some repetitive nonsense.
And along with a lower exchange price, a tax fee per day should be introduced. Its justified since it takes server space to keep your stuff on sell 24/7 even when you are offline. Its a provided service afterall wich have to be paid.
Just imagine a wonderfull 10% tax fee per day from the value's item auto-taken from your bank each day. If there is no EC for the tax then the item is returning to your mail, same as the unsold stuff.
It will trully invigor the exchange and bring the prices down. It might be seen as the oposite, since you can assume the sellers would just high up more the prices. But in the long run it will bring the prices down. It will make the market more dynamic and fluid and bring the exchange to a competitve and fast market rather then a speculative, stagnant and hoarding market as it is now. Right now lets say a rotten market flipper will buy some ships for 100m and repost them at 200m. He will put it on a mule/storage account exchange slot and can wait weeks till a sucker comes to buy a ship at that overpriced cost. But with a tax fee per day, the 2nd day he will thinks twice becouse he will lose money, thus it will take the price down and so on...
It will be great too for the ferengi RPers, since it will bring risk to the exchange game play. You can have that much earning without some high risk involved you know.
Also it will be a great EC sink. It will be a blessing for STO's inflation when some 20-30m will start to be lost, destroyed into nothingness.
And last but not least, it will clean up the exchange and diminish the server space it takes and will make the search less laggy. A tax fee per day will deter ppl to store TRIBBLE on the exchange. Right now lots of ppl are storing useless TRIBBLE clutering the exchange. This will probably make a few bank/inventory slot sales as well.
But mind you, this changes must be along with the nerfing of the doff mission "Turn in Confiscated Contraband" from the 4h duration and 5000 dil to 20h hours duration and 500 dil payout to prevent further exploiting via massive farms. This needs to happen
Hell no.
If you can't stay floating doesn't mean everyone else should drown with you as well.
Playing exchange is a lot easier than a dating game. But if you even can't do this then I have no good news for you
Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
I won't bother reposting everything you wrote, I just hope you were being sarcastic and joking? Please tell me you were joking?
If the Devs set a price limit, then everyone will just post everything at that limit so even a Small Hypo (example only) will be 100Mil or 200Mil ... Yeah, that's a grrreeeaaattt idea ...
Right ... a Daily Fee . .So 10%? Ok ... I'll just bump up the price by 50% to cover that ... Wait that didn't work? and I still Lost money? ... Well What's the point in putting low level stuff on the exchange? I'll just post this extra shiny gear only ata really high price to cover that tax., and I'll just sell the other stuff to a vendor ... Again the few who can afford to put items on the exchange will price a Small Hypo (example only) at 500Mil now ... because they alone can, and because they know you want it ...
OK ... so what, I'll lose money every time I post something? ... F*** that ... I cant afford that, I just won't post anything at all ... And once again we are back to the same players posting that Small Hypo (example only) for 500Mil, because they alone can, and because they know you want it ...
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
I won't bother reposting everything you wrote, I just hope you were being sarcastic and joking? Please tell me you were joking?
If the Devs set a price limit, then everyone will just post everything at that limit so even a Small Hypo (example only) will be 100Mil or 200Mil ... Yeah, that's a grrreeeaaattt idea ...
Right ... a Daily Fee . .So 10%? Ok ... I'll just bump up the price by 50% to cover that ... Wait that didn't work? and I still Lost money? ... Well What's the point in putting low level stuff on the exchange? I'll just post this extra shiny gear only ata really high price to cover that tax., and I'll just sell the other stuff to a vendor ... Again the few who can afford to put items on the exchange will price a Small Hypo (example only) at 500Mil now ... because they alone can, and because they know you want it ...
OK ... so what, I'll lose money every time I post something? ... F*** that ... I cant afford that, I just won't post anything at all ... And once again we are back to the same players posting that Small Hypo (example only) for 500Mil, because they alone can, and because they know you want it ...
I was really serious. And there is allready a 500m limit and you dont see ppl put hypos at 500m. Well they do, but mostly when they buy ECs from illegal sites or just trolling. Or just for storing TRIBBLE on exchange. And a tax fee per day will deter all those things. Exchange is not for trolling or storage or other dubious actions, it just cluters the search even more.
And even if you pump up the price 50% more, thats the beauty of a tax fee per day, you will lose even more, since for sure that item wont be sold in the first days. And even if you buy all the others items of the same cathegory, eventually you will ran out of ECs, and onest players will start to sell at the actually supply and demand mechanism. Thats the thing, it will decrease speculation market thus the inflation on prices and actually the prices will drop. Maybe not right away, but in a month or two the exchange will stabilize.
And a star trek game's economy driven by greed only, does anything have to do with the morals, principles and themes of star trek? Becouse the ferengi greed part of star trek was only minor, yet in STO is seems is the only thing that exists.
I know its "Icky", but its not unheard of. Other MMOs have taxes on transactions and their markets run just fine. And its a solution, bad as you may think, to diminuish the massive imbalance that is now between "normal" players, new ones aswell, and the exploiting billionaires. The balance its way off when some players have up to even 10 billions (yes trust me some have that much) while a new player or even old ones dont have even 10 millions.
And I am refering here at those that, along with flliping the market and "playing the exchange" without any risk, they also exploit the doff mission "Turn in Confiscated Contraband", runing it on large number of accounts, gaining even up to 500k rafined dil per day, then turning that dil into zen, keys and ECs. Really the devs should nerf that mission from 4h duration and 2000 dil to 20h duration and 500 dil payout. That along with an exchange tax fee of 10% per day of the items value should bring STO inflation down and deter specualtors and exploiters.
And a star trek game's economy driven by greed only, does anything have to do with the morals, principles and themes of star trek? ...The balance is way off when some players have up to even 10 billions (yes trust me some have that much) while a new player or even old ones don't have even 10 millions.
And I am referring here at those that, along with flipping the market and "playing the exchange" without any risk,
So no different from real life. Without any sort of controls we see how people revert to their baser instincts. And using the market for storage - no way for most of it. Why do you need to store a single hypo there - just vendor it if you don't have the room. Sorry these people are trying to get some sucker to buy it accidentally at absurd prices. I guess many will say blah, blah, free market, blah, blah, blah. Just look at the pricing for Tier III to VII or so weapons on the Exchange - ridiculous for leveling characters and much more expensive than a lot of the top Tier stuff. I know, blah, blah, blah.
I have a 'bazillion' turrets on my eight characters from running the 50K Diplomacy missions. Yesterday it was time to start clearing some out. I posted a bunch at just below or at the low market rate for the turret type. You see many clustered together at similar prices, some at up to twice the price, and then the inevitable knucklehead posting for 100's of k up to 10 m each. Not for storage, but for the slimmest of chance to get someone to accidentally buy it.
There is a show on HGTV called 'Flip or Flop' where this couple buys houses and resells them. BUT they fix them up beautifully to increase the value and increase the likelihood of a quicker sale. They flip but they add value to justify raising the price. Here we can't add any value to the items so it is just pure profit with no value added.
I have played Lord of the Rings Online for close to four years now (though not as much since the STO bug has taken me over). The Exchange there has a few differences. You pay a posting fee to put stuff on the Exchange (usually small but a bit and not related to price but the type of item it is, though they seem to have gone a bit overboard with those costs for the newer stuff from Update 8 - Riders of Rohan, on). In addition they also keep about 10% of the sale price when sold. There is also bidding on items based on the opening price, though there is also the capability to place a Buy it Outright price on it as well.
In 1978 CEOs earned 26.5 times that of their average workers. Now it stands at 209.4 times. This while worker's productivity increased 93% over that same time frame. So the STO market really reflects the 'real world'.
I wish that sometime some speculator in the Commodities Market would miss the sell off and end up with 300,000 hogs (pork belly) on his lawn some morning when he wakes up.
Some frequent poster on the forums has Picard's quote about there is no money in the 24th century. How far have we come from that in STO.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I am grinding away until the Risian Event ends. Selling lohlunat favors on the exchange to the bitter end to raise ECs for a plasmonic leech.
Yeah, was going to get one for one of my characters a few weeks ago. Saw the price had gone way up to 30 m. Though I could afford it by using most of that characters EC, I wouldn't do so. So I went the Tal'Shiar lock box route instead. Got the Leech, Lobi, some decent other stuff and a Tal'Shiar Adapted Destroyer to boot.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
After scrolling thru this thread, I began to wonder if this was Star Trek Online or Space Monopoly Online. Albeit with a Star Trek theme.
pwe/cryptic doesn't profit from the Exchange. Their revenue streams come from the sale of subscriptions, the sale of Z-Store items, and the sale of Zen. Having them regulate the Exchange simply means everything will be posted at whatever ceiling price people demand. Further, it will force items people want into back channel or outside the game trades between people.
Complaining about "How pwe/cryptic really ought to do something about the Exchange!" is a waste of time. Because the people who want the prices fixed want everything to cost 01 EC and the people who want to make, ahem, "money" want to sell everything for 10,000,000,000 EC.
And both groups are really after trying to get something for nothing.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I have always thought that items that are bought and sold on the exchange should be Bind On Purchase. This way it will prevent all the shenanigans that already 'rich' people get up to buying and reposting items for profit.
The issue with the games economy at the moment is that it reflects the real world economy with a huge proportion of the wealth owned by a tiny fraction of the playerbase. However, unlike the real world there are no laws/commissions to prevent manipulation of the economy (think monolpolies and mergers commissions, trade bodies and unions, central banks etc).
As an earlier posted suggested it really is like wolves in a chicken coop...
I don't believe that the devs care at all about ec cost inflation.
On the most basic level, if they did care, they'd have put in sinks.
But on a more illuminating level, the ec cost inflation doesnt really affect the sale of zen.
Back when keys cost 1m and galors/dkoras cost 80m, a galor or d'kora cost 80 keys, or 9000 zen.
These days, when a galor and dkora cost something like 240m, and a key costs about 3m, a galor or d'kora still costs 80 keys, or 9000 zen. No change at all. No inflation at all there.
Why should the devs be bothered by this? it incentivizes buying zen to get ec.
In fact, if you grind dil, the price of a galor hasn't changed in two years. You need 80 keys worth of dil now, you needed 80 keys worth of dil then. No inflation at all.
Too many people have the false belief that EC is meant to be slaved or grinded for. It isnt. That only increases the money supply and drives up ec prices. You're meant to grind for dil.
The devs should not be moved by the irrational nonsense posts, or the spiteful posts, or any of the other negative bile that gets belched out about Those Awful Rich People on STO.
After reading these threads, its harder and harder for me to believe that ec inflation is bad thing.
Good one, had a laugh again
It doenst matter what you belive :P
And as I stated in the other thread, your example, even also repeated in the other thread lol, dont hold water becouse the ec prices on keys are highly artificially inflated, like lock box ships prices aswell.
And who are you to tell ppl how things are ment to be and that ppl should grind for dil?? Maybe ppl dont like to create farmadas of 60-70 toons and farm 500k rafined dil per day like you do via turn in contraband. This has turned into a massive exploit, since its no different then the foundry clickes that were baned.
And why do you thing what I say its nonsense and spiteful? This can be easily check bv Devs by checking how many accounts on one IP are logging in and using the turn in contraband mission. No hidding or anything...
And there isnt anything negative about it, its actually positive, since indeed the ec inflation is a bad thing and swift actions must be taken, like making the turn in contraband mission to at least 20h duration, if not also lowring its payout, along with exchange tax fees per day to deter speculations:D
I have always thought that items that are bought and sold on the exchange should be Bind On Purchase. This way it will prevent all the shenanigans that already 'rich' people get up to buying and reposting items for profit.
The issue with the games economy at the moment is that it reflects the real world economy with a huge proportion of the wealth owned by a tiny fraction of the playerbase. However, unlike the real world there are no laws/commissions to prevent manipulation of the economy (think monolpolies and mergers commissions, trade bodies and unions, central banks etc).
As an earlier posted suggested it really is like wolves in a chicken coop...
Well let's just put it this way, those laws can prevent specific abuses when such exploits are known and can be shown to have a detrimental effect on the rest of the economy. They do NOT however solve the problem of economic inequality. That's based on the application of a material distribution system to humans. We act with one of two things in mind, individual or group selection, and while we may as a group expect that people favor that group its definition is seldom optimal because we hardly ever define it as all.
Regardless of the laws and circumstances we will act in a way that is not in keeping with let's just say the objective optimum because neither of the qualities we use to judge our actions reflect that objective reality. They are instead the means by which our evolution has proceeded as those who are able to balance individual and group interests (to the greatest possible personal advantage) have been most successful over our species' history.
Now we're dealing with massive economic systems that enable the individual to gain much but without percieving the consequences for the group. It's all about I while G is left relatively ignored, which we see as the problem (as any bystander can better appreciate the impact to G than the individual at the center of activity) in terms of economic inequality but even with a more equitable balance between those to qualities of individual and group interest you're still missing the consideration of the great big O of an objective reality (into which G and I merely factor as components of the optimization problem) against which there is a correct way to manage our physical resources to best support the human population (singular.)
Anyway the exchange has problems but its because of the species using it, not the lack of thought on cryptics part. You can try imposing additional restrictions but with the underlying motivation of exchange users the same you'll just be diverting the abuses through other channels and largely to the same effect. Normal humans are simply not evolved to operate the exchange, its the psychological equivalent of not being able to fly. It would be nice if we could, but so what that we can't.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I quite like this idea. Might be a good way of making the Typhoon and Jupiter classes playable. (like so many people want)
And also give some new channel for ship aquisition that doesn't involve a specific mini-mission grind (see. Risa, The Anniversaries, and Q's Winter Whack to the Groin) which doesn't directly interfere with build a horde of Dilithium for other content (C-store ships, fleet gear, fleet projects, ect.) I don't think its going to ultimately solve anything (inflation/deflation is a particular problem at the level of economic management) but it would add a bit more variety to what we're playing for and for that alone its worth it.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Made as basic and simplified for educational purposes as it can, the formula for the price of lockbox keys is:
P = prices
E = quantity of ec in the economy
K = number of keys in the economy (in reality a broader basket of goods, keys, dil/zen to be spent on keys,fleet ship mods, etc)
P = E/K.
If you can understand that, and how simple it is, you know everything there is to know about why keys cost what they do.
You spouting this again?
I remember a certain conversation on ESD yesterday where you said you purchased "more than three dozen" (36+) Nicors so you can resell them later for a massive profit when their rarity increases, and you claimed you were doing the community a favour!
Prices on rare items like lockbox ships are entirely controlled by people doing what you are doing for greed, and not by any actions taken by the devs by providing or not providing "ec sinks". What you are doing is allowed because there is no regulation or control present in the system. It is not a reflection of the real world economy and the same theories do not apply. It is entirely up to YOU, the PLAYERS to decide what you want to sell something for.
You can limit the exchange all you want. Even if exploiters were stopped, they still have trillions leftover to move around. Their profit would continue to grow, just not as fast.
Comments
You sound like a politician, or a lawmaker.
You don't have a right to blah blah blah, so go earn it.
Oh and I suppose you government types, should have the right to decide what I can, and cannot have?
Sarcasm is so wonderful isn't it?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
no way pedro.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Every single argument I have seen you post in regards to money has been nothing but childish personal attacks. You don't have a right to an item you can't afford because you can't afford it and are too lazy and or arrogant to change that. Stop with your ridiculous self entitlement and stop trying to hinder other peoples game play with your ridiculous arguments, and ill conceived notions of economics.
End rant.
i.e. you need to sell a Lockbox ship in order to buy a different Lockbox ship ... And that is just the way Cryptic like it! More money for them, so it will never be changed.
Putting limits on the exchange wont work, limiting the number of items for reasons already stated, setting a Mx Price would be even worse, as this would make every item the same max price eventually ... Even the Exchange Tax that Crytpic/PWE use in Neverwinter doesn't really help, because Player invariably add extra to their prices in a misguided attempt to "cover" the extra expense ...
All you can do is play by the olde mantra ... 'if ya can't beatem', joinem'"
A "worthwhile" EC sink in the game would perhaps make a small difference, not the ridiculous idea of a 500Mil ship, as no-one but the very Tycoons the OP hates would bother, unless the ship was something sooo spectacular it was the only ship worth owning.
But of course you can't have that, as we've seen with the backlash of hate for the Scimi, and that's not that much better than many other ships ...
However, certain low level ships ... Uncommon and Rare items purchasable for EC ... Consumables that replace certain expensive Consoles (a consumed on use Plas. leech console? That lasts for 1 hour?) ... Costumes Unlocks ... Shield, Engine, Weapon 'boosters" that last for 1 hour ... Even some of the cross faction ships (many of them DO come from Ferengi merchants, so they MUST be available for sale surely?)
...
The other thing, is when players finally realise that you DO NOT need to have the 200Mil Lockbox ship in order to successfully play STO and to enjoy the game, until they realise that though, people will still look at certain ships/items as if they were some sort of Space Deity Incarnate, and the gougers will continue to charge outrageous prices for them.
Calling someone lazy or arrogant, telling someone to apparently stop with ridiculous self entitlement doesn't make yourself any better.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
Its a really great idea. More limits should be on exchange to prevent all the inflation via speculation its going on right now. In fact the 500m limit should be decresed but alas that was a diferent thread wich got deralied with some repetitive nonsense.
And along with a lower exchange price, a tax fee per day should be introduced. Its justified since it takes server space to keep your stuff on sell 24/7 even when you are offline. Its a provided service afterall wich have to be paid.
Just imagine a wonderfull 10% tax fee per day from the value's item auto-taken from your bank each day. If there is no EC for the tax then the item is returning to your mail, same as the unsold stuff.
It will trully invigor the exchange and bring the prices down. It might be seen as the oposite, since you can assume the sellers would just high up more the prices. But in the long run it will bring the prices down. It will make the market more dynamic and fluid and bring the exchange to a competitve and fast market rather then a speculative, stagnant and hoarding market as it is now. Right now lets say a rotten market flipper will buy some ships for 100m and repost them at 200m. He will put it on a mule/storage account exchange slot and can wait weeks till a sucker comes to buy a ship at that overpriced cost. But with a tax fee per day, the 2nd day he will thinks twice becouse he will lose money, thus it will take the price down and so on...
It will be great too for the ferengi RPers, since it will bring risk to the exchange game play. You can have that much earning without some high risk involved you know.
Also it will be a great EC sink. It will be a blessing for STO's inflation when some 20-30m will start to be lost, destroyed into nothingness.
And last but not least, it will clean up the exchange and diminish the server space it takes and will make the search less laggy. A tax fee per day will deter ppl to store TRIBBLE on the exchange. Right now lots of ppl are storing useless TRIBBLE clutering the exchange. This will probably make a few bank/inventory slot sales as well.
But mind you, this changes must be along with the nerfing of the doff mission "Turn in Confiscated Contraband" from the 4h duration and 5000 dil to 20h hours duration and 500 dil payout to prevent further exploiting via massive farms. This needs to happen
If you can't stay floating doesn't mean everyone else should drown with you as well.
Playing exchange is a lot easier than a dating game. But if you even can't do this then I have no good news for you
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If the Devs set a price limit, then everyone will just post everything at that limit so even a Small Hypo (example only) will be 100Mil or 200Mil ... Yeah, that's a grrreeeaaattt idea ...
Right ... a Daily Fee . .So 10%? Ok ... I'll just bump up the price by 50% to cover that ... Wait that didn't work? and I still Lost money? ... Well What's the point in putting low level stuff on the exchange? I'll just post this extra shiny gear only ata really high price to cover that tax., and I'll just sell the other stuff to a vendor ... Again the few who can afford to put items on the exchange will price a Small Hypo (example only) at 500Mil now ... because they alone can, and because they know you want it ...
OK ... so what, I'll lose money every time I post something? ... F*** that ... I cant afford that, I just won't post anything at all ... And once again we are back to the same players posting that Small Hypo (example only) for 500Mil, because they alone can, and because they know you want it ...
Icky.
That's too weird, even for Cryptic I hope.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
And even if you pump up the price 50% more, thats the beauty of a tax fee per day, you will lose even more, since for sure that item wont be sold in the first days. And even if you buy all the others items of the same cathegory, eventually you will ran out of ECs, and onest players will start to sell at the actually supply and demand mechanism. Thats the thing, it will decrease speculation market thus the inflation on prices and actually the prices will drop. Maybe not right away, but in a month or two the exchange will stabilize.
And a star trek game's economy driven by greed only, does anything have to do with the morals, principles and themes of star trek
I know its "Icky", but its not unheard of. Other MMOs have taxes on transactions and their markets run just fine. And its a solution, bad as you may think, to diminuish the massive imbalance that is now between "normal" players, new ones aswell, and the exploiting billionaires. The balance its way off when some players have up to even 10 billions (yes trust me some have that much) while a new player or even old ones dont have even 10 millions.
And I am refering here at those that, along with flliping the market and "playing the exchange" without any risk, they also exploit the doff mission "Turn in Confiscated Contraband", runing it on large number of accounts, gaining even up to 500k rafined dil per day, then turning that dil into zen, keys and ECs. Really the devs should nerf that mission from 4h duration and 2000 dil to 20h duration and 500 dil payout. That along with an exchange tax fee of 10% per day of the items value should bring STO inflation down and deter specualtors and exploiters.
They already interfere enough
Hopefully prices on the exchange will not double 'cuz that means I would need another 30 million ECs....
So no different from real life. Without any sort of controls we see how people revert to their baser instincts. And using the market for storage - no way for most of it. Why do you need to store a single hypo there - just vendor it if you don't have the room. Sorry these people are trying to get some sucker to buy it accidentally at absurd prices. I guess many will say blah, blah, free market, blah, blah, blah. Just look at the pricing for Tier III to VII or so weapons on the Exchange - ridiculous for leveling characters and much more expensive than a lot of the top Tier stuff. I know, blah, blah, blah.
I have a 'bazillion' turrets on my eight characters from running the 50K Diplomacy missions. Yesterday it was time to start clearing some out. I posted a bunch at just below or at the low market rate for the turret type. You see many clustered together at similar prices, some at up to twice the price, and then the inevitable knucklehead posting for 100's of k up to 10 m each. Not for storage, but for the slimmest of chance to get someone to accidentally buy it.
There is a show on HGTV called 'Flip or Flop' where this couple buys houses and resells them. BUT they fix them up beautifully to increase the value and increase the likelihood of a quicker sale. They flip but they add value to justify raising the price. Here we can't add any value to the items so it is just pure profit with no value added.
I have played Lord of the Rings Online for close to four years now (though not as much since the STO bug has taken me over). The Exchange there has a few differences. You pay a posting fee to put stuff on the Exchange (usually small but a bit and not related to price but the type of item it is, though they seem to have gone a bit overboard with those costs for the newer stuff from Update 8 - Riders of Rohan, on). In addition they also keep about 10% of the sale price when sold. There is also bidding on items based on the opening price, though there is also the capability to place a Buy it Outright price on it as well.
In 1978 CEOs earned 26.5 times that of their average workers. Now it stands at 209.4 times. This while worker's productivity increased 93% over that same time frame. So the STO market really reflects the 'real world'.
I wish that sometime some speculator in the Commodities Market would miss the sell off and end up with 300,000 hogs (pork belly) on his lawn some morning when he wakes up.
Some frequent poster on the forums has Picard's quote about there is no money in the 24th century. How far have we come from that in STO.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yeah, was going to get one for one of my characters a few weeks ago. Saw the price had gone way up to 30 m. Though I could afford it by using most of that characters EC, I wouldn't do so. So I went the Tal'Shiar lock box route instead. Got the Leech, Lobi, some decent other stuff and a Tal'Shiar Adapted Destroyer to boot.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
pwe/cryptic doesn't profit from the Exchange. Their revenue streams come from the sale of subscriptions, the sale of Z-Store items, and the sale of Zen. Having them regulate the Exchange simply means everything will be posted at whatever ceiling price people demand. Further, it will force items people want into back channel or outside the game trades between people.
Complaining about "How pwe/cryptic really ought to do something about the Exchange!" is a waste of time. Because the people who want the prices fixed want everything to cost 01 EC and the people who want to make, ahem, "money" want to sell everything for 10,000,000,000 EC.
And both groups are really after trying to get something for nothing.
The issue with the games economy at the moment is that it reflects the real world economy with a huge proportion of the wealth owned by a tiny fraction of the playerbase. However, unlike the real world there are no laws/commissions to prevent manipulation of the economy (think monolpolies and mergers commissions, trade bodies and unions, central banks etc).
As an earlier posted suggested it really is like wolves in a chicken coop...
...#LLAP...
Good one, had a laugh again
It doenst matter what you belive :P
And as I stated in the other thread, your example, even also repeated in the other thread lol, dont hold water becouse the ec prices on keys are highly artificially inflated, like lock box ships prices aswell.
And who are you to tell ppl how things are ment to be and that ppl should grind for dil?? Maybe ppl dont like to create farmadas of 60-70 toons and farm 500k rafined dil per day like you do via turn in contraband. This has turned into a massive exploit, since its no different then the foundry clickes that were baned.
And why do you thing what I say its nonsense and spiteful? This can be easily check bv Devs by checking how many accounts on one IP are logging in and using the turn in contraband mission. No hidding or anything...
And there isnt anything negative about it, its actually positive, since indeed the ec inflation is a bad thing and swift actions must be taken, like making the turn in contraband mission to at least 20h duration, if not also lowring its payout, along with exchange tax fees per day to deter speculations:D
Well let's just put it this way, those laws can prevent specific abuses when such exploits are known and can be shown to have a detrimental effect on the rest of the economy. They do NOT however solve the problem of economic inequality. That's based on the application of a material distribution system to humans. We act with one of two things in mind, individual or group selection, and while we may as a group expect that people favor that group its definition is seldom optimal because we hardly ever define it as all.
Regardless of the laws and circumstances we will act in a way that is not in keeping with let's just say the objective optimum because neither of the qualities we use to judge our actions reflect that objective reality. They are instead the means by which our evolution has proceeded as those who are able to balance individual and group interests (to the greatest possible personal advantage) have been most successful over our species' history.
Now we're dealing with massive economic systems that enable the individual to gain much but without percieving the consequences for the group. It's all about I while G is left relatively ignored, which we see as the problem (as any bystander can better appreciate the impact to G than the individual at the center of activity) in terms of economic inequality but even with a more equitable balance between those to qualities of individual and group interest you're still missing the consideration of the great big O of an objective reality (into which G and I merely factor as components of the optimization problem) against which there is a correct way to manage our physical resources to best support the human population (singular.)
Anyway the exchange has problems but its because of the species using it, not the lack of thought on cryptics part. You can try imposing additional restrictions but with the underlying motivation of exchange users the same you'll just be diverting the abuses through other channels and largely to the same effect. Normal humans are simply not evolved to operate the exchange, its the psychological equivalent of not being able to fly. It would be nice if we could, but so what that we can't.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I quite like this idea. Might be a good way of making the Typhoon and Jupiter classes playable. (like so many people want)
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
And also give some new channel for ship aquisition that doesn't involve a specific mini-mission grind (see. Risa, The Anniversaries, and Q's Winter Whack to the Groin) which doesn't directly interfere with build a horde of Dilithium for other content (C-store ships, fleet gear, fleet projects, ect.) I don't think its going to ultimately solve anything (inflation/deflation is a particular problem at the level of economic management) but it would add a bit more variety to what we're playing for and for that alone its worth it.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
You spouting this again?
I remember a certain conversation on ESD yesterday where you said you purchased "more than three dozen" (36+) Nicors so you can resell them later for a massive profit when their rarity increases, and you claimed you were doing the community a favour!
Prices on rare items like lockbox ships are entirely controlled by people doing what you are doing for greed, and not by any actions taken by the devs by providing or not providing "ec sinks". What you are doing is allowed because there is no regulation or control present in the system. It is not a reflection of the real world economy and the same theories do not apply. It is entirely up to YOU, the PLAYERS to decide what you want to sell something for.