test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Season 9 Dev Blog #29 - Exploration Cluster Removal

1171820222329

Comments

  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO. In the end we aim to make Star Trek Online something you’re excited to be playing every week.

    Ok. That sentence alone says it all.
    How can a sane person write that with a straight face?

    At this point I don't care any more if I'm banned here or not.

    There are 2 explanations for that and ONLY those:

    1. They are sabotaging that game on purpose

    2. They are mentally disabled.

    No other possible explanation.


    Thats also the only explanations for leaving a person like D'Angelo in charge. The way he dismantles and destroys the game step by step, a game I really like, really makes me angry.
    At this point I'm actually hoping for him to have a lethal car accident or worst, he just SOMEHOW has to get his incompetent hands of this game.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    DS9 is a dead social zone. It's likely next on the chopping block.
    It's funny that people think just because the giant behemoth of Exploration is getting removed, that Cryptic will be removing stuff left and right. Cryptic stated their reasons for its removal, and the reasons do not apply to most stuff in STO. The particular combination of size, newbie unfriendliness and low quality is what killed exploration. Most stuff in this game - even if it's just as bad or worse - just lacks the size. If it needs fixing, the fix can definitely wait, but when it is the turn to be fixed, it will also be manageable. (I think the only exception to that may be PvP, I don't see any manageable fixes possible there. But PvP isn't big, and hardly affects new players...)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    DS9 is a dead social zone. It's likely next on the chopping block.

    Why assume this? Do you have proof they are thinking of doing this. Or is this just scare mongering?
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • issachullissachull Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    "Across the board many of the decisions being made right now run counter to the direction of the game's first 3 plus years because the people piloting the ship are not the people who'd been there the whole time and so they are not really that well versed in what happened to get to this point."

    While I am not going to "ditto" this per se, it had been something I had privately speculated on. What I actually had in mind was an MBA coming in and doing to STO what happened to the TV series "Andromeda", because of ROI.

    I can only say that both Paramount and CBS have an interest in making sure a Star Trek property remains Star Trek in tone, as well as making sure folks are treated in accordance with their values (I think CBS would especially keen on this one, esp. if high school kids are involved), and both can be motivated to action if the right action agent appears. For if a Star Trek game become nothing but a generic MMORG and loses the feel of Star Trek, then my guess is that rather than face a devaluement of the intellectual property, the owners will find someone willing to treat it properly, esp. if they are appealed to in the right way, by the right individual.

    However, we are nowhere near that point yet. I do have concerns for the future but see no great devaluement at present. My guess is Cryptic is just getting started on figuring out it's long-term growth and STEWARDSHIP plan for STO, that it is a truism that "no plan survives contact with the enemy", so I by no means assume anything as far as the future or Cryptic, and presume they wish to only build on what has made the product a playing success so far. Nevertheless, there a few things that do and will always irritate me, and are principles I consider important enough to bring up.

    For example, when I try to pay *my* money for something, and my cookie setting is good enough for Amazon, it is good enough for Cryptic. Period. I.hope.we.all.agree. Yes?

    Now, on to something different. If *I* was in charge of future plans, and looking for ways to maintain enthusiasm as well as expand the user base, one thing that pops in my head is the Total War precedent, where using the same era edition (Rome, Medieval, Empire) they had different eras within the era--Vikings, Alexander, Napoleon, etc. They also had strategic options. Along those lines, what STO should do is:

    1.) The Original Series Universe Expansion (with full-on Klingon/Fed fighting). Would not require much diddling with maps (though presumably smaller, but then the ships would be slower (Warp 7)). This also removes the "melt cubes ships running around in same STF as stock ships", by resetting things to a less powerful base. Would also satisfy the call for playable Constitution/Ktinga/D-7 ships. We all know the IP exists, because I pretty much know (or think I do) where ARC got the original "this is how things should fly" code and skins from (and thank you for removing some of the dorked up aero-based pitch and yaw rates, and I knew they were aero-based (I presume CFD) because I was working on a flight test technique project at the time). Logon for the Expansion 'verse would be same as for getting to Tribble or Redshirt.

    2.) Klingon/Gorn War. Before they become BFFs, their was a minor little matter of an invasion. Good place for a strategic campaign.

    3.) Dominion War. Self-explanatory.

    Just some random thoughts, in my belief that there are ways to improve revenue/ROI that actually relate to a product provided.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Is it really needed to publicly wish a personal tragedy on someone just to remove them from the Dev Team? Have we allowed ourselves to be come this obsessed with STO?

    I cannot help but disappointed here. That someone whose opinion I respected, until now, would go this far as a way to make their point.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: While I would LOVE more exploration missions in STO, the system as-is is a low-quality embarrassment.

    Better would have the near-Earth clusters and areas closer to civilized space be humanitarian relief efforts, investigations of strange occurrences, and diplomatic missions; sort of like the Tau Dewa sector patrol for each cluster, with a random generator choosing a mission from a list of options for each system. Each cluster would have a different list with different specifics in the art, dialogue, and enemies (if any), so that if you got bored with a particular set of missions you could just go to another cluster.

    This could be heavily tied to Diplomacy commendation xp, with big rewards of, say, 1,000 diplomacy XP and 1440 dil for doing 3 missions in a cluster daily.

    The B'tran cluster and other "frontier" clusters could have First Contact missions and similar missions instead.

    Thoughts, anyone?
  • captinwh0captinwh0 Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    vermatrix wrote: »
    I say PWE and Cryptic should come up with a replacement for star clusters themselves, not rely on foundry missions to replace it. that's just pathetic and lazy, after all, when were the players hired as employees of PWE or Cryptic? When did it become the player's job to take over the development of the game? If anything, they should merge all the sectors, add more star systems, particularly planets that are the home worlds of the different species of the game like Betazed, Ferenginar, Rigel V, Benzar, stuff like that. Besides being new social zones they could also have missions to do, not to mention being new settings for more foundry missions. That should be an acceptable replacement

    this would be a fantastic idea, especially for those that Havnt tried the foundry missions, or end up avaiding them
    nerf.jpg]
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Is it really needed to publicly wish a personal tragedy on someone just to remove them from the Dev Team? Have we allowed ourselves to be come this obsessed with STO?

    I cannot help but disappointed here. That someone whose opinion I respected, until now, would go this far as a way to make their point.

    Yeah, I was going to say that I hoped the Devs were reading this, but I suppose that a lot of the gratuitous vitriol will need to be Modhammered before they'll be able to read it without needing therapy.
  • venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    It's ignorance. Across the board many of the decisions being made right now run counter to the direction of the game's first 3 plus years because the people piloting the ship are not the people who'd been there the whole time and so they are not really that well versed in what happened to get to this point.
    Exploration is the overall key component to "Star Trek". Unlike the "Star Wars" franchise, where fantasy is the focal point, the "Star Trek" franchise is all about discovering new civilizations, cultures, lifeforms, and ecosystems. Everything about the franchise is focused on the human condition, and how its viewed from an alien perspective. (Humans watching our drama being played out by aliens.)

    I think removing the exploration clusters creates a conundrum. Since the majority of the players ignore the crafting system, I can understand why Cryptic is removing the clusters. On the flip side of the coin, revamping the clusters would have been a better solution. Replacing the clusters with point-and-click duty officer missions seems cheap.

    Although Cryptic has done some great work, feature episodes specifically, they rely upon the grinding mechanic and timegates systems a little too much. Cryptic seems to be suffering from writer's cramp. Or, they lack a desire to do something different. I personally think the grinding system is a crutch, which prevents Cryptic from doing creative things.

    "Star Trek: Online" is a fantastic game for short term gratification. When it comes to long term gratification, "Star Trek: Online" gets too repetitive, expensive, and stale. Remember, "Star Trek: Online" is the first of its kind. As with many aspects of the franchise, the negative reactions are most likely due to fatigue. Franchise fatigue is very common with tv based franchises. "Star Trek: Enterprise" and "Stargate: Universe" were cancelled due to franchise fatigue.

    Even though this may be edited, I personally think Season Ten should be the end. Regardless about what Cryptic does at this point, the repetitive and expensive nature of this game is overwhelming. Sure, Cryptic can generate some revenue with each season; however, the majority of the players are smart enough to see the conundrums.

    Season Ten, the next possible expansion, will be the 'make it or break it' moment. Since the majority of Season Nine is about revamps, the next season or expansion needs to do something different. Adding new fleet holdings and reputation systems is kind of mute. Something BIG has to happen in the next season or expansion. Speaking as a fatigued semi-veteran player, Season Nine currently has nothing for me to accomplish. Sure, I could finish up the last two rep system; however, I am getting tired of carrying out repetitive tasks.

    Again, Cryptic did a great job on the lower-level 50 content; therefore, I will give them one more chance to turn things around. Unless the next season or expansion does something different, I think allot of people will end up doing something else. We will have to wait and see.
  • sboslayersboslayer Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Quote: Originally Posted by lystent View Post
    I have imagined that pwe and cryptic have grown used to negative feedback.
    fireseeed wrote: »
    When they do something good I will praise them with enough praise that they will grow use to being praise until they do something idiotic again.

    To the point were any feedback is, ineffective. (can't be arsed finding original post :P)
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    kirksplat wrote: »
    I agree. I'm excited about the possibilities, but they need to do more than hand it off to us and hook up doors.

    Which, given their history, is exactly what they'll do and nothing more.

    Then when it fails massively, they'll blame the players and Foundry authors...of course. (See "Nobody plays PvP, that's why we don't put effort into it" for examples.)
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,005 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Is it really needed to publicly wish a personal tragedy on someone just to remove them from the Dev Team? Have we allowed ourselves to be come this obsessed with STO?

    I cannot help but disappointed here. That someone whose opinion I respected, until now, would go this far as a way to make their point.

    This. If your thoughts are that messed up it's time to shut down your computer for a long time and get outside. I'm not happy with a lot of things regarding the development of this game, but it's a game and nothing more.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    when something is happening people can't or won't understand, it is certainly easier for them to construct some sort of giant conspiracy than to accept the truth, which in this case is simple: the content sucked, the majority didn't participated in it, it took up a lot of harddrive space, it was confusing for newbies.
    Yes, under that premisse they could remove other things, but they didn't.

    and yes they took stuff out i enjoyed a lot: hourly events, mirror universe to level alts, ...and some more i forgot, because it wasn't relevant.
    Do you see me cry about it? No. I'm not in controle in this game, should there be future design decissions that make the game unbareable for me, i leave, simple as that.
    Go pro or go home
  • starbase1114starbase1114 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Are You Guy Out Of Your Minds? How Dose Removing Them Make The Game Better?
    It Dosen't It Blows Also Who Ever Came Up With The Idea Of Removing Memory Alpha Has Lost It Too! You Jerks Are Going To Ruin The Game Even More! Keep Slim Lining The Game And No One Is Going To Want To Play! It Needs To Be Thought About Again Because There Is No Place To Explore!!! Who Give A TRIBBLE About The Foundry, The Foundry Dose Not Make Up For These Clusters And Memory Alpha! HEY WHY DONT YOU JUST GET RID OR THE TRANSWARP GATES AS WELL WE DONT NEED THEM ANY MORE BECAUSE WE HAVE A MENU AND WE REALY DONT NEED GAMMA ORIONIS AND THE PELIA SECTOR TOO HELL LETS JUST SIT AT THE STARBASE AND SEND A DUTY OFFICERS TO EXPLORE WHY SHOULD I GO I DONT EVEN HAVE TO DO ANYTHING IN THE GAME TO RANK UP AFTER I GET THEM BUT DRINK COFFEE AND GET RANKED UP HELL LETS JUST TURN IT IN TO A TEXT BASED GAME AND QUITE!!!!
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    drgrendel wrote: »
    I guess I was thinking less literally than that. I just mean that I think the cluster maps themselves are pretty lackluster and flying around checking to see if all the little points are in fact star systems or just misplaced bits of data or mineral fragments is kind of absurd.

    Sooo...looking around to find out where things are, and what those things are, is absurd in the context of "exploration?"

    Please do tell us what your idea of "exploration" is, then. I'm just dying to know.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Sooo...looking around to find out where things are, and what those things are, is absurd in the context of "exploration?"

    Please do tell us what your idea of "exploration" is, then. I'm just dying to know.

    If your idea of exploration is spamming the F key.... then I don't want to live in this world anymore
    GwaoHAD.png
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    If your idea of exploration is spamming the F key.... then I don't want to live in this world anymore

    You choice. Can I have your stuff? :P
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    You choice. Can I have your stuff? :P

    Ummmmmmm no
    GwaoHAD.png
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    What is really happening here, in your opinion?

    Players called it right when it first happened. This change is being made because of the crafting resources that can be scanned in the clusters.
    Accroding to you, Cryptic is basically removing content for no reason what so ever, and is creating lies to explain it away.

    But what is the point? Why do they remove it? Just to spite you and ruin your day? Does the Chinese government forbid exploration missions?

    They're doing it because of the added resource and timesink that they've carefully constructed with the new crafting system. And then they're selling a complete bunch of bologna stating that tthat's not the reason, it's all this other stuff, like people getting lost.

    This isn't the first time they've tried this.

    Remember back when Wishstone flat out said the game wasn't going Free to Play and started locking any and all threads on the topic?

    A short time later, players leaked the info found on a Perfect World memo demonstrating the game was going Free to Play.

    You've been through all the same ups and downs I have. You've seen all the BS put forth from the likes of Gozer, Stahl, Emmert, Zinc and Geko. Time and time again there's been deflection and misdirection.

    Is it really hard to believe the same tired old tactic is being used again?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Also, for the fine folks out there who are defending Cryptic's characterization of this content as being too simplistic and boring, I believe this post sums up how hypocritical Cryptic's development team really is.



    It's just a huge joke, and it's on the players. I'm so very sorry that some of you can't really see what's happening here.

    But as time goes by they will finally get around to removing something you DO like.

    Maybe it'll be a uniform you like. A ship. Some trait you worked for. Something. It will happen. I hope you're as nonchalant then as you are now.

    If it's anything like the exploration clusters, it will be something that no self-respecting dev can look at and feel proud of creating. It'll be a costume that clips so bad it pokes through the nose. And I'm not really saying that any of the post S6 non-FE content is really "quality" compared to the exploration clusters, but wow, the exploration cluster were trash generated by a blender. At least something like no-win-scenario had a human designer, although it's also trash content.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    baudl wrote: »
    when something is happening people can't or won't understand, it is certainly easier for them to construct some sort of giant conspiracy than to accept the truth

    Truth is not something Cryptic has much association with.

    I'll skip over City of Heroes and NGE.

    I'll skip over the marvel lawsuit, the failed Marvel MMO that became Champions.

    And I'll just link THIS.

    A recorded history of this game's developers stretching the truth and misrepresenting themselves and the company.

    This isn't a conspiracy. This is standard operating procedure for this game since day 1.

    I haven't forgotten this stuff. But it seems some of my peers who've been playing the game as long as I have, have indeed forgotten how things have been done around here.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Why assume this?

    Memory Alpha ... dead map. Poof. Gone.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014

    And I'll just link THIS.

    I wish somebody would do a page like this about the foundry. It would be jaw-dropping. I think it's been about 2 years now since promises of NW "ports" that are incoming right after NW launches.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    kirksplat wrote: »
    I wish somebody would do a page like this about the foundry. It would be jaw-dropping. I think it's been about 2 years now since promises of NW "ports" that are incoming right after NW launches.

    The amount of promises they gave regarding the Foundry and its future ...

    And the reality of the support they give it ...

    I mean it's right down there with Champions in terms of how flatlined it's been.

    :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The amount of promises they gave regarding the Foundry and its future ...

    And the reality of the support they give it ...

    I mean it's right down there with Champions in terms of how flatlined it's been.

    :(

    What's more surprising is how quickly it seems to have been intentionally killed at Neverwinter. They have an alleged "foundry team" with programmers, and the state of the Foundry there is far, far worse. It just got thrown into the trash, it seems. Imagine if STO Foundry missions gave only greens, no dilithium, and no reason to play more than a 16 minute mission. Also, imagine a chest at the end that you open to find... nothing. You just got trolled. You can 1 star the author now out of spite.

    At least STO has a Foundry community still. That game's Foundry is a ghost town in absolute shambles.

    Neverwinter Foundry is really quite pathetic, to be honest. I waver between feelings of anger than STO has no team and feelings of relief that we don't have that team. LINK
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • starbase1114starbase1114 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    It's Sad That This Game Is Dieing All Because Of Stupid Idea's We Want More Places To Explore Not Less.. Duty Officers Are Not There To Take That Away From That, They Are Red Shirts That Can Die And No One Cares! I'm Sorry But Fighting One Fraction After Another Is Not Star Trek! Star Trek Is About Exploring And Now Your Killing It And Remolding Space For Duty Officers! Oh What Fun Will That Be........
  • starbase1114starbase1114 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Going To New Planets Meeting The People There Or Not Meeting Them Is Would Have To Be Up To The Captain And Maybe Star Fleet Command! Finding New Planets And New Things To Bring To Memory Alpha! Oh Wait That Going To Be Gone Sorry... Well Maybe A Rescue Some People That Crashed On A Planet Or Someone Out In Space! Or Find New Planets To Colonize, Something Like That! And Ya I Guess Some Fighting...
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    kirksplat wrote: »
    What's more surprising is how quickly it seems to have been intentionally killed at Neverwinter. They have an alleged "foundry team" with programmers, and the state of the Foundry there is far, far worse. It just got thrown into the trash, it seems. Imagine if STO Foundry missions gave only greens, no dilithium, and no reason to play more than a 16 minute mission. Also, imagine a chest at the end that you open to find... nothing. You just got trolled. You can 1 star the author now out of spite.

    Me and my friends tried to play Neverwinter pretty much for the foundry. We were treating it like an old timey pen and paper group where we'd log on together to do stuff, with a heavy focus on foundry and exploring dungeons and the like.

    That died fast.

    We never 1 starred authors. It wasn't their fault.

    But yeah, Neverwinter had a lot of potential. Ah well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    And I'll just link THIS.
    That page is a great example of what you get when people stretch the truth and twist things to look the way they want it to.

    BTW, I'm talking about PF, not Cryptic.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    And that's what was asked for.




    Woah. The Last Outpost was my example of an EXPLORATION episode. Not diplomacy.
    Actually, the start of the episode was the Ent D chasing a group of Ferengi who had stolen something from a Federation Outpost. the Ferengi just happened to run away into unexplored space.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
This discussion has been closed.