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Season 9 Dev Blog #29 - Exploration Cluster Removal

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  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    It's all about business these days they don't care if you have fun or not, if you don't have fun go do something else that's there motto.
    But there is a lot more coming in 9.5 and seriously did you ever visit the clusters.
    Barely anyone did thats why they remove it from the game makes me wonder if they remove nukara too no one ever comes there ...

    :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Except that the diplomacy angle was barely present in the episode. Instead we had however many minutes of Picard shooting at holograms.And by subplot you "background fluff tacked on to a combat mission".And it involved fighting Ferengi....

    If you can't come up with a good reason for why Cryptic should remove the cluster missions instead of properly replacing them, then take your apologist driven justifications elsewhere. Cryptic has a nasty habit of removing things without properly replacing them or just outright nerfing them. Want some examples? Tour the universe, slaver contraband drop rate, dilithium foundry dailies, elite stf dilithium reward nerf, the old carrier pet system, removal of global cooldowns for team boff abilities, etc., etc. Stop grasping at straws...
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  • fireseeedfireseeed Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Laughing out loud. Cryptic considers giants dinosaurs with laser mounted on top of their heads, quality work! Really is.

    By the way, some links to procedurally generated worlds.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bQz5ugtfLY

    Everyone is doing procedural generation on a massive scale at the moment, a 9 man team has build this engine over the last few years

    https://www.inovaestudios.com/

    , 4 man team has built No Man's Sky.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M

    One bloke is building Limited theory.
  • policestate76policestate76 Member Posts: 1,424 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Cryptic will NEVER invest efforts and resources to improve anything. Its their way of working. They release new stuff, and thats all. Everything else.. forget about it. Its far easy to remove things that to use your brains and creativity to improve things or create new good ones. And of course, if you going to need money to release or re vamp something, forget about it. Cryptic is doing a really cheap work since ages ago, in everything, i dont even know how its possible people still didnt realize.

    It even crossed my mind that the removal of the exploration clusters is an attempt to free the game engine of work, and to have more "room" to handle the invisible weapons bug, for example. But honestly, i dont even think cryptic is worried about these critical graphic bugs. They should focus on fixing these critical bugs since eons ago, instead, they waste time and resources on another useless crafting sytem (i hope not, but i dont have hopes) and more and more new stuff.

    Well, im really excited on what will happen when the next expansion arrives, and nobody will see anything on the screen or the fps lag will be so huge that this game will be completely done for good. Because im sure 200% that will be what happens, but cryptic doesnt seem to care (and most players are really not worried about this as well.. poor em lol).

    This is happening since ages ago, but its curious only now, when they remove the exploration clusters is when people start complaining. Lol. When they remove something we like, oh dear. In the meanwhile, everything is ok.. seriously guys.

    The "wrong" turn is not happening now, its been happening since LoR or even before that. Finally, now is when things are going to state very clear for everyone, and not only for people who always knew how this was headed.
  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Cryptic will NEVER invest efforts and resources to improve anything. Its their way of working. They release new stuff, and thats all. Everything else.. forget about it. Its far easy to remove things that to use your brains and creativity to improve things or create new good ones. And of course, if you going to need money to release or re vamp something, forget about it. Cryptic is doing a really cheap work since ages ago, in everything, i dont even know how its possible people still didnt realize.

    It even crossed my mind that the removal of the exploration clusters is an attempt to free the game engine of work, and to have more "room" to handle the invisible weapons bug, for example. But honestly, i dont even think cryptic is worried about these critical graphic bugs. They should focus on fixing these critical bugs since eons ago, instead, they waste time and resources on another useless crafting sytem (i hope not, but i dont have hopes) and more and more new stuff.

    Well, im really excited on what will happen when the next expansion arrives, and nobody will see anything on the screen or the fps lag will be so huge that this game will be completely done for good. Because im sure 200% that will be what happens, but cryptic doesnt seem to care (and most players are really not worried about this as well.. poor em lol).

    This is happening since ages ago, but its curious only now, when they remove the exploration clusters is when people start complaining. Lol. When they remove something we like, oh dear. In the meanwhile, everything is ok.. seriously guys.

    The "wrong" turn is not happening now, its been happening since LoR or even before that. Finally, now is when things are going to state very clear for everyone, and not only for people who always knew how this was headed.

    In this case they better start removig all stuff thats nerved or buged only thing that will be left are the social maps rest is bugged annyway
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I really don't have much to worry about as I didn't care about the Clusters, but I just LOVE how the people who are angry at this have resorted to calling the others "Cryptic apologists" and "brainwashed population".
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I really don't have much to worry about as I didn't care about the Clusters, but I just LOVE how the people who are angry at this have resorted to calling the others "Cryptic apologists" and "brainwashed population".

    And taking things out of context puts you in the same bucket! ;)
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  • policestate76policestate76 Member Posts: 1,424 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    In this case they better start removig all stuff thats nerved or buged only thing that will be left are the social maps rest is bugged annyway

    They are not removing bugged things, thats the problem, they are not even doing that. Exploration clusters were never bugged. I will never understand the reasons to remove em (saying that some new people get lost in exploration clusters is a stupid statement, and a stupid "reason" to remove em), but im sure that one of em is to have more room to keep releasing more stuff in the future. It is wat cryptic does.
  • teshultzteshultz Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    You got to be kidding me!!! You should be expanding space not shrinking it. and not all of us get involve in the PVE queues. Not all of us have the time to visit Foundry. This game was great because of Exploration. The freedom to go where the art would allow.

    Do not turn this game into an instance base game! No one likes Instance base games.


    Instance base = PVE queues or anything like it.


    If you are going to have queues then entrance should be earn by going to that location and participating once the old fashion way.


    I do not know who is leading STO now but you do not know what your doing, you must maintain the basic principle of Star Trek as created Gene Roddenberry. Doing things because you can, does not mean they are right. Like this:

    "While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO. In the end we aim to make Star Trek Online something you’re excited to be playing every week."

    That is the part that makes the game, what does not is all these non improvements, improvements, Reputation a grind. If I was in charge the rep system would be gone.
    I would go back through in add in all the stuff that has been taken out. Like the mirror universe intrusions. There is a lot of stuff you have taken out instead of making them work, you must not know how to make them work right.


    What is that new Space Exploration game?
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Wellcome to the 2-nd era of D'Angelo.
    This is where they tell you how to play, what to play and when to play! If by any mysterious chance you find something to play that is not part of their plan for what you should be playing, rest assured it will be removed. They wouldn't want you to lose yourself in so much content anyway.
    What, you don't like the sound of it? Boo hoo, too bad, you can always scram for what they care.
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  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    And when all they see is whine on the forums, I don't blame them for doing nothing.
    Sekhmet_Banner.jpg
    Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Except that the diplomacy angle was barely present in the episode. Instead we had however many minutes of Picard shooting at holograms.And by subplot you "background fluff tacked on to a combat mission".And it involved fighting Ferengi....
    1- the poster asked for an episode. I provided one. One that specifically states the enterprise is on a diplomatic mission. Took me 30 seconds for it to pop in my head. The requirements asked for were met. You are trying to change the question.

    2- what do you even mean by the ferengi comment? The episode is all about exploration. It hinges on a first contact scenario and interacting with the long dead Tkon empire. I wonder if you'll be as snark when season 11 introduces the new Tkon story arc with voice work from armin shimmerman and Johnathan frakes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Why remove content instead of CREATING more? WRONG TURN
    I totally say that whenever my neighbors and their dogs are about to leave my yard. ;)
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    chiyoumiku wrote: »
    And when all they see is whine on the forums, I don't blame them for doing nothing.

    Doing nothing would have been leaving the Clusters there. Taking them out required some effort.

    They've revamped crafting and the STFs several times. They've revamped the story missions, the skill tree, in game currencies, the UI, the reputation system, ESD (twice), they are revamping the Doff interface, and on, and on.

    Exploration though? Let it rot for 4 years, then remove it claiming 'it's not up to our current high standards'. Well maybe they should have taken the time to revamp that too, like they kept saying they would; then it wouldn't be in such a poor state in the first place.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    chiyoumiku wrote: »
    And when all they see is whine on the forums, I don't blame them for doing nothing.

    There's a saying - "you reap what you sow".
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  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Removing the only semi-dynamic content without a replacement, and asking players to create material for their own enjoyment, all while deploying new wonders that railroads you through narrow paths. Welcome to Star Track Online. Now please have a seat.

    ---
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    fireseeed wrote: »
    Everyone is doing procedural generation on a massive scale at the moment, a 9 man team has build this engine over the last few years

    https://www.inovaestudios.com/

    , 4 man team has built No Man's Sky.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M

    One bloke is building Limited theory.


    Very true. There is already public code to generate star systems including planets. I find if terribly hard to believe a company who had 4 years to replace the Genesis code either buying, investing, or developing it by themselves or through other individuals. They did not have the foresight. This is a lazy permanent solution.

    The funny part is where is all the lockbox and zen money is going to other then lining individuals pockets. Analogy. So you go to a Nasa and you to talk to a representative. They tell you they took out the seeking life forms and exploration.

    No way in hell. Its okay fof Cryptic tho

    I grown fustrated with the game and I support the fleets I am in. So. This is not a I'm leaving message.

    But I am developing something myself now personally and already talked to ond of the 3d open source to create world map system the allow procedural with atmod
    sphere thats tranfertable to space while i make a sufficient client.

    This is for play tho. It saddens me to see other games create procedural and open space this game should of had years ago.
  • fireseeedfireseeed Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Removing the only semi-dynamic content without a replacement, and asking players to create material for their own enjoyment, all while deploying new wonders that railroads you through narrow paths. Welcome to Star Track Online. Now please have a seat.

    ---

    I will but only until No Mans Sky and Elite: Dangerous comes, both with huge universes for us to explore and discover and are more star trek than Star trek Online.
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    fireseeed wrote: »
    I will but only until No Mans Sky and Elite: Dangerous comes, both with huge universes for us to explore and discover and are more star trek than Star trek Online.

    I'm following Elite as well, with 400 Billion stars, we would rather need a "Next Generation" to complete the exploration. :P

    ---
  • contrarydecisioncontrarydecision Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    People really romanticize those awful, broken, hilariously stupid Genesis missions?

    Do people really miss having to murder groups of LiterallyMadeUpNPCGroup to recover artifacts of the 7th Borg Dynasty on PlanetRandomNameHere? How about scanning carnivorous plants that seem to actually be Grecian columns sitting around for no reason whatsoever?

    The only reason to cry about the loss of the exploration clusters is because you're desperate for SOME reason to cry about something. ANYTHING. They actively detracted from the game and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional.
  • policestate76policestate76 Member Posts: 1,424 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    chiyoumiku wrote: »
    And when all they see is whine on the forums, I don't blame them for doing nothing.

    Then, they should write down why people is whinning, and do something about it.. dont you think? :P, if people is whinning because they dont like the way this game is heading, they should do something about it.. right? but they dont.. just the opposite... and btw, are you aware that maybe the mods are the only ones who visit the forums, right? lol.
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    People really romanticize those awful, broken, hilariously stupid Genesis missions?

    Do people really miss having to murder groups of LiterallyMadeUpNPCGroup to recover artifacts of the 7th Borg Dynasty on PlanetRandomNameHere? How about scanning carnivorous plants that seem to actually be Grecian columns sitting around for no reason whatsoever?

    The only reason to cry about the loss of the exploration clusters is because you're desperate for SOME reason to cry about something. ANYTHING. They actively detracted from the game and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional.

    You're right mate. We can't stop shooting the Voth in the face, by going off to some strange faraway place. What would that make us, some kind of travelers or something? ;)


    ---
  • policestate76policestate76 Member Posts: 1,424 Arc User
    edited July 2014

    The only reason to cry about the loss of the exploration clusters is because you're desperate for SOME reason to cry about something. ANYTHING. They actively detracted from the game and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional.

    You didnt get the point at all.

    Its not about that, its about they removing things because they dont have the will / motivation to do things right. Well, i guess you like the way STO is headed, some of us want a BETTER game, not the opposite. I suposse this is the reason why this game , unfortunately is losing the battle. I only can imagine that a lot of players think like you, so im not surprised cryptic dont even bother to make things just a little better.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    People really romanticize those awful, broken, hilariously stupid Genesis missions?

    Do people really miss having to murder groups of LiterallyMadeUpNPCGroup to recover artifacts of the 7th Borg Dynasty on PlanetRandomNameHere? How about scanning carnivorous plants that seem to actually be Grecian columns sitting around for no reason whatsoever?

    The only reason to cry about the loss of the exploration clusters is because you're desperate for SOME reason to cry about something. ANYTHING. They actively detracted from the game and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional.

    All that ^

    Also I think I look around the forums enough to see what is what is "hip" and I have never seen one person talk about how great/fun/awesome/neat those missions are. I heard no one giving a good or any story about exploration missions.


    The simple fact is you can get better exploration out of the ground maps, the foundry, picking your belly button, picking your nose, picking your friend's nose, picking a targ's nose, picking Quinn's nose, seeing what food Worf would threw up, doing donuts around earth, eating random donuts, picking a donut's nose, PVPING, STFs, the dyson sphere, the dyson cleaning device, Mike Dyson, Mike Dyson's nose, setting your ipod to shuffle, googling the names of ships you see flying around, going to Drozana as an Orion, and browsing the STO forums.
  • sboslayersboslayer Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Interesting take on quality... which usually constitutes continuous improvement in the world of business/manufacturing and most industries these days. In order to actually bring some quality then these missions could have been improved or reworked to what was "envisioned", instead of btw we have a foundry update and you can do all the work to make exploration again. There isn't much travel in this game these days as it is. I don't think i'll be moving about much without these anymore. Futhermore... quality tends to link to the simple four corner matrix; including the potential to dissatisfy and the potential to delight. This doesn't delight the players and were not whining over nothing..

    To improve quality and content what we need is some new content and quality... not another crafting system that is clearly been reworked from the reputation and doff interfaces - code reuse anyone?

    Quality to me is to improve end-game and progress the story further... utilize the star-bases to be something more than gear mines. Overall the game quality has been degrading to the point of boring anyway, so why remove these? In all honesty... I know it's a business and you need to make money... but it's becoming aliens online with no improvements to current and loved fed ships. Rommies have too much crit, which has messed up the fun of other races, especially in pvp.

    In short... i'd much prefer that cryptic invested the time into improving pvp, fixing bug fixes since season 5, end-game content etc instead of tinkering with reworked systems or removing old ones that weren't broken to begin with (maybe mundane over time as you say, but fun to revisit every so often). If I remember these weren't bad for dil either.... most likely has something to do with it. Furthermore, I am keen to see what kind of feedback mechanisms you are actually using as they seem to be random, or at things you can but don't want to fix, a poll every so often really doesn't make feedback to bring this game to glory. I think a closer eye in the player base will do Cryptic well. God I hate QQing, but it's starting too annoy me, some of these changes and the lack of forum posts compared to a few years ago (but, you see in the chat channels) indicates a loss of faith on voicing opinions on the forums. Just to note this is called the "Voice of the Customer" look it up :P

    Anyway, i'm not leaving the game. Just looking forward to something worth while turning up and it makes me sad the game is kinda going this way, but hey; maybe this will be a positive change. Who knows.
  • enterprise1701axenterprise1701ax Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    teshultz wrote: »
    You got to be kidding me!!! You should be expanding space not shrinking it. and not all of us get involve in the PVE queues. Not all of us have the time to visit Foundry. This game was great because of Exploration. The freedom to go where the art would allow.

    Do not turn this game into an instance base game! No one likes Instance base games.


    Instance base = PVE queues or anything like it.


    If you are going to have queues then entrance should be earn by going to that location and participating once the old fashion way.


    I do not know who is leading STO now but you do not know what your doing, you must maintain the basic principle of Star Trek as created Gene Roddenberry. Doing things because you can, does not mean they are right. Like this:

    "While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO. In the end we aim to make Star Trek Online something you’re excited to be playing every week."

    That is the part that makes the game, what does not is all these non improvements, improvements, Reputation a grind. If I was in charge the rep system would be gone.
    I would go back through in add in all the stuff that has been taken out. Like the mirror universe intrusions. There is a lot of stuff you have taken out instead of making them work, you must not know how to make them work right.


    What is that new Space Exploration game?

    I totally agree with you! No Exploration = NOT Star Trek = I will be moving on. And I've been here since Season 1.
  • nickcastletonnickcastleton Member Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'm following Elite as well, with 400 Billion stars, we would rather need a "Next Generation" to complete the exploration. :P

    ---

    i have done exploration clusters before and as of right now they are no different they are either

    shoot 5 groups of enemy ships

    shoot 3 or 5 groups of enemy npc's

    give 20 random items to a planet and then leave.

    THAT ISNT EXPLORATION.

    now if cryptic's plan is to use popular foundry missions to make new sectors with missions attached to them (ie making foundry mission official) that would be a boon but the anger isnt that they are going its that they have literally said nothing about any new forms of exploration system that will replace it either now or in the future.
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    "It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014

    now if cryptic's plan is to use popular foundry missions to make new sectors with missions attached to them (ie making foundry mission official) that would be a boon...


    They haven't said any of that. All they've done is let us use the clusters as "doors," meaning that if you can find our missions, you can enter them at the site of the clusters. That is the only Foundry support so far.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vengefuldjinnvengefuldjinn Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    capnmanx wrote: »
    Really, the implication that they were on a mission of exploration is usually in the 'Captain's Log' introduction. What ends up happening is just because of weird stuff they find while doing so. This was true of many episodes.

    The lack of variety in what could happen while nosing around was they only thing that really kept the clusters from being STO's 'monster/enemy of the week' type content. In a very basic sense, the formula was correct. Go explore, then something entertaining happens.


    Here, Fixed it for you :D
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  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Cryptic will NEVER invest efforts and resources to improve anything. Its their way of working. They release new stuff, and thats all. Everything else.. forget about it. Its far easy to remove things that to use your brains and creativity to improve things or create new good ones. And of course, if you going to need money to release or re vamp something, forget about it.

    Yeah, that's why they removed all those Klingon War and Borg Invasion missions ... oh wait, they didn't. They invested time and resources to revamp them. Yeah.

    Maybe they have something planned to replace exploration, maybe they don't. There are precedents for both possibilities. The best thing we can do right now is stop freaking out and wait to see what they have planned. Then, and only then, will we judge their decision ... hopefully in time to change it if needed.
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
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