Except for btran dailies does anyone actually use the explore zones for anything at level 50? It takes like 20 hours to get to level 50. Most of the explore zones are just 1 visit and never going back before you hit 50 and have no reason to go back. And since no one really does crafting even farming the zones for material was pointless.
I want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing them back in limited or remastered form but I think I am realistic about database clutter.
These were 8000 missions.
You could have 5-10 missions that are stably accessible from the cluster hookups that contain all of the core content found in those 8000 missions and the new versions could have, say, random weather, random crafting placement, and random enemies, recycling the basic text of the old missions.
And that would be an improvement because you'd clean the database of thousands of missions (working off of old tech) and you could still keep the basic cluster missions, with the only tradeoff being that you don't get random terrain. (But you could get random enemies, weather, and side objectives.) Heck, I can think of ways you get terrain randomization back in. But this would be building on tech in the game now that allows for randomized elements and not the old tech that required 8000+ missions clogging up the database.
And I think if we could give it 8-12 months without cluster missions, we could get better ones when they do come back.
I think the lack of faith here is what I find disturbing. Especially when, if anything, D'Angelo has shown a commitment towards single player friendly content with randomized elements and actually doing things in steps while refusing to leak what those steps are.
The same can be said for story missions. You out level them just as quickly. And people really only rerun specific ones that offer specific rewards. No one's really going back and rerunning an episode that offers a green Pollyalloy Weave armor once they level past it.
Yet instead of removing that content, they've been rewriting it.
Why would they remove story missions since you can't outlevel them? They're always at whatever level you are. If you're level 50 they're level 50 missions. You might not need to play them for xp but the stories are there to be played whether you're the correct level or at max level.
Story missions are unique. Explore missions are the same small group of missions. The only thing that changes is minor details, but never the missions. Scanning 5 gravestones is no different then scanning 5 alien plants. It's still the same mission of running across the same map following the same path to get to the 5 items.
Since the btran missions use the same randomizer as delta volcanis why go back? Aiding the planet isn't any different in btran then delta v. Scanning 5 ships isn't any different in btran then delta v. Shooting 5 klingons isn't any different in btran then it is in delta v. There's no reason to go back and do them because they offer the same small group of mission choices.
Why would they remove story missions since you can't outlevel them? They're always at whatever level you are.
So are these missions.
Story missions are unique. Explore missions are the same small group of missions. The only thing that changes is minor details, but never the missions.
So they're the same group of missions except the parts that are different?
As opposed to the story missions which are unique. Except when you rerun them and they are the exact same?
Since the btran missions use the same randomizer as delta volcanis why go back? Aiding the planet isn't any different in btran then delta v. Scanning 5 ships isn't any different in btran then delta v. Shooting 5 klingons isn't any different in btran then it is in delta v. There's no reason to go back and do them because they offer the same small group of mission choices.
Each cluster has different enemies tied to it. B'Tran, specifically, has all of the Cryptic made enemies and the Borg. Delta Volanis, IIRC, has the Klingons and Orions?
I want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing them back in limited or remastered form but I think I am realistic about database clutter.
I don't think you are realistic about it. Why? Because I still play Everquest 1. And their database still has every item ever created for that game, every zone and every NPC since 1997.
So they're the same group of missions except the parts that are different?
As opposed to the story missions which are unique. Except when you rerun them and they are the exact same?
Are you confused? You do delta volcanis at level 5 you get a small random type of mission; and they're the same missions that are in the patrols. You can get the same missions in hiromi, and in btran. The exact same mission. Or you might get the same mission only they use romulans instead of klingons, but it's the same map and the same mission.
I know you're just debating to debate, but you know they're the same small group of missions. Whether you scan 5 graves or 5 plants it's the same mission.
You can do the missions of any cluster at any level. And it bands to your current level.
Each cluster has different enemy groups that get assigned to the missions though (well except B'Tran, because you can't get to it at lower levels ... but seriously, go try to do the ones off of Cardassian space, they're all there no matter what level you are).
I get the feeling I've done more of these than you have.
Each cluster has different enemies tied to it. B'Tran, specifically, has all of the Cryptic made enemies and the Borg. Delta Volanis, IIRC, has the Klingons and Orions?
Not true. It has some different enemy types, but you can get any random mission and any foe. You can get kllingons in btran just as easily as you can in delta v or hiromi. Either way it's the same mission. Killing 5 groups of klingons on map 14 isn't any different then killing 5 romulans on map 14.
Not true. It has some different enemy types, but you can get any random mission and any foe. You can get kllingons in btran just as easily as you can in delta v or hiromi. Either way it's the same mission. Killing 5 groups of klingons on map 14 isn't any different then killing 5 romulans on map 14.
I've never once fought the Starlians in the Delta Volanis Cluster.
EDIT:
Also, let's really get into this ...
You call these missions boring. And state this:
Killing 5 groups of klingons on map 14 isn't any different then killing 5 romulans on map 14.
But you don't really acknowledge the fact that story missions are just as boring after the first time through.
So yeah, on the first run of these missions a story mission may have more depth than one of these exploration missions (though with some of the story missions even that is debatable).
But on subsequent runs?
I've run Diplomatic Orders at least two dozen times since the game launched.
Until they revamped it, how was it any more engaging than killing 5 sets of romulans or 5 sets of orion pirates?
That's really one of the most annoying parts of people bashing these missions. The amount of times you all have to RERUN some of these missions (to complete sets or get 6 anitproton beam arrays) ... pretty much turns the story missions into the same boring clickfest you call these missions.
So no, the mission quality nonsense doesn't wash here.
The story missions are only engaging once.
These may or may not be engaging, but it's not like the alternative is that much deeper.
I want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing them back in limited or remastered form but I think I am realistic about database clutter.
These were 8000 missions.
You could have 5-10 missions that are stably accessible from the cluster hookups that contain all of the core content found in those 8000 missions and the new versions could have, say, random weather, random crafting placement, and random enemies, recycling the basic text of the old missions.
And that would be an improvement because you'd clean the database of thousands of missions (working off of old tech) and you could still keep the basic cluster missions, with the only tradeoff being that you don't get random terrain. (But you could get random enemies, weather, and side objectives.) Heck, I can think of ways you get terrain randomization back in. But this would be building on tech in the game now that allows for randomized elements and not the old tech that required 8000+ missions clogging up the database.
And I think if we could give it 8-12 months without cluster missions, we could get better ones when they do come back.
I think the lack of faith here is what I find disturbing. Especially when, if anything, D'Angelo has shown a commitment towards single player friendly content with randomized elements and actually doing things in steps while refusing to leak what those steps are.
Faith needs to be rewarded from time to time.
I've kept faith with Cryptic for years. I've been accused of blatant fanboyism more times than I care to count. My faith has been rewarded with the removal of one of the very systems I have been waiting to see improved all this time; and not because they are putting in a whole new system, but because it is low quality (which I knew, that's why I wanted it improved), and because it is making the download too big.
We only even learned about it from an offhand remark in a thread about crafting.
And just to rub salt in the wound, we've got folks on the forum trying to tell us we should be grateful they're doing it.
I'd just be staying the heck away from the forum right now if I wasn't so desperate for news. It's a really depressing place to be a fan of the clusters right now.
I've never once fought the Starlians in the Delta Volanis Cluster.
And the starlians are completely different then the klingons on the map? Isn't it the same spawn size group using the same basic weapons in the same basic place?
Using a different name doesn't make the encounter any different.
Since the btran missions use the same randomizer as delta volcanis why go back? Aiding the planet isn't any different in btran then delta v. Scanning 5 ships isn't any different in btran then delta v. Shooting 5 klingons isn't any different in btran then it is in delta v. There's no reason to go back and do them because they offer the same small group of mission choices.
Honestly? The atmosphere seems a little different in each cluster. Even aside from the enemies, they tend to have themed backgrounds (the space maps anyway).
Yes. On ground maps their stats and group dynamic are different.
Nope, not the same. Starlians don't have swordmasters or targ masters. They do have dual pistol spamming lt.s though.
So you're saying you really liked the current clusters and have no issue doing the same 6 missions over and over just because they change the foes, or plants, or animals or whatever? I don't believe you. I think you're just arguing this point because it's something to argue. I honestly don't think you give 2 shakes about the current crappy exploration clusters but this is just the hot topic to moan about how cryptic is TRIBBLE the players right now.
So you're saying you really liked the current clusters and have no issue doing the same 6 missions over and over just because they change the foes, or plants, or animals or whatever? I don't believe you.
How many times do I have to post this:
THE B'TRAN CLUSTER IS PART OF MY ROLE PLAYING IN THIS GAME.
I HAVE AN ENTIRE BACKSTORY TIED TO IT. IT'S KEY TO THE STORY OF FOUR OF MY CHARACTERS, INCLUDING MY MAIN.
This is one of my favorite things to do in the game.
Mostly because I use my imagination and add bits to it. I use the captain's log feature to add more to each mission. More story. I even have half completed bits for a fan-site devoted just to the B'Tran cluster, filling in the backstory of the cryptic made villains.
I have a character who IS a Strekkellan, and his entire story is about how he and his crew were integrated into Starfleet from an incident that spun out of ... ONE OF THESE MISSIONS.
Took me a couple hours to get the look to match. Using screenshots and tabbing in and out.
And now ... they're removing this from the game. Along with the Starlians, Vito'D, Strekkellans and Crimto. Along with Memory Alpha. Along with Diplomacy missions. All things I really liked about this game. All very Star-Trek things. But really they're taking the B'Tran away and essentially killing the RP aspect of the game that was essential to half my list of max level characters.
So no, this isn't me arguing just to argue.
This is Cryptic taking a big dump on one of my favorite parts of this game.
And then telling me it's because players get lost in the maps.
So you're saying you really liked the current clusters and have no issue doing the same 6 missions over and over just because they change the foes, or plants, or animals or whatever? I don't believe you. I think you're just arguing this point because it's something to argue. I honestly don't think you give 2 shakes about the current crappy exploration clusters but this is just the hot topic to moan about how cryptic is TRIBBLE the players right now.
They also change the maps. I know they tend to seem a bit same-y, but that's because they reuse a lot of assets; there are actually quite a few different maps.
Truth is, you could play hours of every day for weeks in those clusters and never go to the same map twice.
this is whole point content is being pulled with more or less absurd reason their is no guarantee it will ever come back and cryptic has a good history of pulling and never putting back some of use did use exploration missions for many different reasons no it was not true to star trek exploration but this game not true to trek to as a whole
their next crafting incarnation is more or less good example of cryptic trying to make a fast buck
would not surprise me if exploration did come back bet cryptic will figure out to make a fast buck on it
This is Cryptic taking a big dump on one of my favorite parts of this game.
2 years ago you swore you'd never play again or come back because cryptic gave ferengi you paid money for away for free with the ftp change. Pardon me if I don't get to worked up over things you think are taking a dump on you.
2 years ago you swore you'd never play again or come back because cryptic gave ferengi you paid money for away for free with the ftp change. Pardon me if I don't get to worked up over things you think are taking a dump on you.
In the interim they gave me enough free stuff to recoup the cost of those purchases. Which is why I came back. Also something I've posted multiple times.
BUT ... let's not brush off what I just posted so hastily shall we?
You said I'm arguing just to argue. I pointed out how I am not.
I pointed out that I like this content. I gave reasons why. You still going to spout off about these missions and this and that and how you don't believe me?
Seriously, this content isn't all that much worse than MOST of the content in this game. It's not that different than the patrol missions. It's really not that different than most of the story missions. The story in these is just lighter. But you end up doing all the same things you do in the bulk of the levelling missions.
I just don't buy the argument that these missions are useless or not up to standards. Especially in the context of THIS COMPANY ... a company that can't put out missions with any regularity so their own internal standards are bad to begin with.
The missions are light on story, due to how they're generated. But that's it. And there's no good reason to remove them, unless they plan to replace the system.
Which up until now they've not said anything about.
Well, there are things it makes sense to lose faith in and things it doesn't.
I have lost a lot of faith in Cryptic's ability to manage a community or handle discipline issues in the community over the last ten years.
I can understand having no faith in the idea of weekly FEs, promoting BOs to playable alts, or gender respecs like Stahl used to talk about.
But how could you lose faith in repeatable grind content for solo players and small groups with random variables to put a slight twist on it? When everything released since D'Angelo took over is repeatable grind content for single players and small groups and everything released in that time (A Step Between Stars, Surface Tension, Sphere of Influence, Undine Assault, Undine Infiltration, Viscous Cycle) has random trigger variables to make playthroughs different?
I pointed out that I like this content. I gave reasons why. You still going to spout off about these missions and this and that and how you don't believe me?
I like the old stfs. They're gone. I accept it. I don't throw tantrums. I just play what the game gives me.
And I have no reason to believe you. You're a stranger on a gaming forum. If I checked I might even find posts of you talking about your dislike for the exploration zones. I don't care that much.
I find the exploration content to be massively repetitive; more then the stfs and rep system combined. I won't miss it. I'm probably not alone in that regard.
Well, there are things it makes sense to lose faith in and things it doesn't.
I have lost a lot of faith in Cryptic's ability to manage a community or handle discipline issues in the community over the last ten years.
I can understand having no faith in the idea of weekly FEs, promoting BOs to playable alts, or gender respecs like Stahl used to talk about.
But how could you lose faith in repeatable grind content for solo players and small groups with random variables to put a slight twist on it? When everything released since D'Angelo took over is repeatable grind content for single players and small groups and everything released in that time (A Step Between Stars, Surface Tension, Sphere of Influence, Undine Assault, Undine Infiltration, Viscous Cycle) has random trigger variables to make playthroughs different?
Those are plot missions and queued events. I have complete faith that we will be seeing more of those.
Also, Cryptic seems to have pretty good odds for restoring content that's gotten removed. The big concern I could see is that Exploration might come back as a weekend event or time gated process. Not whether it will come back.
The only thing with no signs of coming back in some form is the DS9 Fleet Action.
But how could you lose faith in repeatable grind content for solo players and small groups with random variables to put a slight twist on it?
I think for me it has a lot to do with the Undine content and season 9.
They broke the Voth space STFs when they put the content in. Classic Cryptic move. And what we got with the Undine content was ...
- A ground mission set on Bajor. So just reuse an old asset (which is what people keep criticizing these cluster missions for doing).
- A fluidic space encounter that requires Z-Axis movement, going against the way the game is designed at its basic core.
- Releasing the space gear set that it supposed to stifle the fludic space drift, broken so that it doesn't stifle the fluidic space drift, making obtaining it pointless.
- A second space encounter that is too spammy, and promotes carpal tunnel with how you have to defeat the planet killer at the end.
- Reusing the Voth space for a battlezone encounter.
So really, what standards are they adhering to? They're just recycling maps and content already.
Eh ... I know when I'm being fed misinformation. And right now that's what they're feeding. At least on this topic. Other topics, they add the word redacted and just straight up remove.
I have lost a lot of faith in Cryptic's ability to manage a community or handle discipline issues in the community over the last ten years.
It's not the last 10 years. It's just since ftp. When cryptic was handing out infractions and banning people the forums were much calmer. Now everyone knows nothing bad is going to happen no matter what they say, and they know to even post on the weekends when the devs don't follow the forums. When there's no consequences for being a jerk people are going to be jerks.
I like the old stfs. They're gone. I accept it. I don't throw tantrums. I just play what the game gives me.
I'm offering feedback. That's not throwing a tantrum.
And I have no reason to believe you.
I gave you reasons. Multiple reasons.
You're a stranger on a gaming forum.
You remember things I posted 2 years ago. Stranger? Really?
I find the exploration content to be massively repetitive; more then the stfs and rep system combined. I won't miss it. I'm probably not alone in that regard.
With the rep system you can do multiple reps, or you have multiple ways of earning rep points. I can go to new romulus and do ground missions, or do space patrols, or do events, and so on. When I'm bored with romulan rep I can do dyson rep, and there's a dozen different missions within the sphere to do to earn the rep points. If I'm bored with dyson I can do an stf, or nukara, and so on. Or I can go and do events. You're not tied to just doing the same 6 things:
Find and click 5 x
Find and click 5 x and shoot something defending it
Shoot 5 x
Shoot 4 x while defending something
Aid the planet
Gather data
Comments
Yep. I use em for fun.
These were 8000 missions.
You could have 5-10 missions that are stably accessible from the cluster hookups that contain all of the core content found in those 8000 missions and the new versions could have, say, random weather, random crafting placement, and random enemies, recycling the basic text of the old missions.
And that would be an improvement because you'd clean the database of thousands of missions (working off of old tech) and you could still keep the basic cluster missions, with the only tradeoff being that you don't get random terrain. (But you could get random enemies, weather, and side objectives.) Heck, I can think of ways you get terrain randomization back in. But this would be building on tech in the game now that allows for randomized elements and not the old tech that required 8000+ missions clogging up the database.
And I think if we could give it 8-12 months without cluster missions, we could get better ones when they do come back.
I think the lack of faith here is what I find disturbing. Especially when, if anything, D'Angelo has shown a commitment towards single player friendly content with randomized elements and actually doing things in steps while refusing to leak what those steps are.
Story missions are unique. Explore missions are the same small group of missions. The only thing that changes is minor details, but never the missions. Scanning 5 gravestones is no different then scanning 5 alien plants. It's still the same mission of running across the same map following the same path to get to the 5 items.
So are these missions.
So they're the same group of missions except the parts that are different?
As opposed to the story missions which are unique. Except when you rerun them and they are the exact same?
Each cluster has different enemies tied to it. B'Tran, specifically, has all of the Cryptic made enemies and the Borg. Delta Volanis, IIRC, has the Klingons and Orions?
I don't think you are realistic about it. Why? Because I still play Everquest 1. And their database still has every item ever created for that game, every zone and every NPC since 1997.
I know you're just debating to debate, but you know they're the same small group of missions. Whether you scan 5 graves or 5 plants it's the same mission.
No, but you seem to be.
You can do the missions of any cluster at any level. And it bands to your current level.
Each cluster has different enemy groups that get assigned to the missions though (well except B'Tran, because you can't get to it at lower levels ... but seriously, go try to do the ones off of Cardassian space, they're all there no matter what level you are).
I get the feeling I've done more of these than you have.
I've never once fought the Starlians in the Delta Volanis Cluster.
EDIT:
Also, let's really get into this ...
You call these missions boring. And state this:
But you don't really acknowledge the fact that story missions are just as boring after the first time through.
So yeah, on the first run of these missions a story mission may have more depth than one of these exploration missions (though with some of the story missions even that is debatable).
But on subsequent runs?
I've run Diplomatic Orders at least two dozen times since the game launched.
Until they revamped it, how was it any more engaging than killing 5 sets of romulans or 5 sets of orion pirates?
That's really one of the most annoying parts of people bashing these missions. The amount of times you all have to RERUN some of these missions (to complete sets or get 6 anitproton beam arrays) ... pretty much turns the story missions into the same boring clickfest you call these missions.
So no, the mission quality nonsense doesn't wash here.
The story missions are only engaging once.
These may or may not be engaging, but it's not like the alternative is that much deeper.
Faith needs to be rewarded from time to time.
I've kept faith with Cryptic for years. I've been accused of blatant fanboyism more times than I care to count. My faith has been rewarded with the removal of one of the very systems I have been waiting to see improved all this time; and not because they are putting in a whole new system, but because it is low quality (which I knew, that's why I wanted it improved), and because it is making the download too big.
We only even learned about it from an offhand remark in a thread about crafting.
And just to rub salt in the wound, we've got folks on the forum trying to tell us we should be grateful they're doing it.
I'd just be staying the heck away from the forum right now if I wasn't so desperate for news. It's a really depressing place to be a fan of the clusters right now.
Using a different name doesn't make the encounter any different.
Honestly? The atmosphere seems a little different in each cluster. Even aside from the enemies, they tend to have themed backgrounds (the space maps anyway).
Yes. On ground maps their stats and group dynamic are different.
Nope, not the same. Starlians don't have swordmasters or targ masters. They do have dual pistol spamming lt.s though.
How many times do I have to post this:
THE B'TRAN CLUSTER IS PART OF MY ROLE PLAYING IN THIS GAME.
I HAVE AN ENTIRE BACKSTORY TIED TO IT. IT'S KEY TO THE STORY OF FOUR OF MY CHARACTERS, INCLUDING MY MAIN.
This is one of my favorite things to do in the game.
Mostly because I use my imagination and add bits to it. I use the captain's log feature to add more to each mission. More story. I even have half completed bits for a fan-site devoted just to the B'Tran cluster, filling in the backstory of the cryptic made villains.
I have a character who IS a Strekkellan, and his entire story is about how he and his crew were integrated into Starfleet from an incident that spun out of ... ONE OF THESE MISSIONS.
Took me a couple hours to get the look to match. Using screenshots and tabbing in and out.
And now ... they're removing this from the game. Along with the Starlians, Vito'D, Strekkellans and Crimto. Along with Memory Alpha. Along with Diplomacy missions. All things I really liked about this game. All very Star-Trek things. But really they're taking the B'Tran away and essentially killing the RP aspect of the game that was essential to half my list of max level characters.
So no, this isn't me arguing just to argue.
This is Cryptic taking a big dump on one of my favorite parts of this game.
And then telling me it's because players get lost in the maps.
They also change the maps. I know they tend to seem a bit same-y, but that's because they reuse a lot of assets; there are actually quite a few different maps.
Truth is, you could play hours of every day for weeks in those clusters and never go to the same map twice.
their next crafting incarnation is more or less good example of cryptic trying to make a fast buck
would not surprise me if exploration did come back bet cryptic will figure out to make a fast buck on it
system Lord Baal is dead
In the interim they gave me enough free stuff to recoup the cost of those purchases. Which is why I came back. Also something I've posted multiple times.
BUT ... let's not brush off what I just posted so hastily shall we?
You said I'm arguing just to argue. I pointed out how I am not.
I pointed out that I like this content. I gave reasons why. You still going to spout off about these missions and this and that and how you don't believe me?
Seriously, this content isn't all that much worse than MOST of the content in this game. It's not that different than the patrol missions. It's really not that different than most of the story missions. The story in these is just lighter. But you end up doing all the same things you do in the bulk of the levelling missions.
I just don't buy the argument that these missions are useless or not up to standards. Especially in the context of THIS COMPANY ... a company that can't put out missions with any regularity so their own internal standards are bad to begin with.
The missions are light on story, due to how they're generated. But that's it. And there's no good reason to remove them, unless they plan to replace the system.
Which up until now they've not said anything about.
Well, there are things it makes sense to lose faith in and things it doesn't.
I have lost a lot of faith in Cryptic's ability to manage a community or handle discipline issues in the community over the last ten years.
I can understand having no faith in the idea of weekly FEs, promoting BOs to playable alts, or gender respecs like Stahl used to talk about.
But how could you lose faith in repeatable grind content for solo players and small groups with random variables to put a slight twist on it? When everything released since D'Angelo took over is repeatable grind content for single players and small groups and everything released in that time (A Step Between Stars, Surface Tension, Sphere of Influence, Undine Assault, Undine Infiltration, Viscous Cycle) has random trigger variables to make playthroughs different?
system Lord Baal is dead
And I have no reason to believe you. You're a stranger on a gaming forum. If I checked I might even find posts of you talking about your dislike for the exploration zones. I don't care that much.
I find the exploration content to be massively repetitive; more then the stfs and rep system combined. I won't miss it. I'm probably not alone in that regard.
Those are plot missions and queued events. I have complete faith that we will be seeing more of those.
The only thing with no signs of coming back in some form is the DS9 Fleet Action.
I think for me it has a lot to do with the Undine content and season 9.
They broke the Voth space STFs when they put the content in. Classic Cryptic move. And what we got with the Undine content was ...
- A ground mission set on Bajor. So just reuse an old asset (which is what people keep criticizing these cluster missions for doing).
- A fluidic space encounter that requires Z-Axis movement, going against the way the game is designed at its basic core.
- Releasing the space gear set that it supposed to stifle the fludic space drift, broken so that it doesn't stifle the fluidic space drift, making obtaining it pointless.
- A second space encounter that is too spammy, and promotes carpal tunnel with how you have to defeat the planet killer at the end.
- Reusing the Voth space for a battlezone encounter.
So really, what standards are they adhering to? They're just recycling maps and content already.
Eh ... I know when I'm being fed misinformation. And right now that's what they're feeding. At least on this topic. Other topics, they add the word redacted and just straight up remove.
Yeah, mistrust is high right now.
I'm offering feedback. That's not throwing a tantrum.
I gave you reasons. Multiple reasons.
You remember things I posted 2 years ago. Stranger? Really?
How is it more repetitive than the STF/Rep grind?
Find and click 5 x
Find and click 5 x and shoot something defending it
Shoot 5 x
Shoot 4 x while defending something
Aid the planet
Gather data