What part of the stated reasons don't make sense to you?
ALL of them: It makes a significant difference in the download size? People get lost in them? Not up to a quality standard? (I even snorted typing that last bit out) These supposed factors scare off new players? Nope, not buying it.
Yeah it's not like people have been begging for more exploration type star trek gameplay for years so look at it like that it makes total sense
I think mostly everything they do is to benefit their own agenda - for example removing mirror event to force you to play all them story missions we all hate.
Yet in the same breath still have the audacity to say it's all about quality like the story missions aren't straight up torture and downright the most terrible part of the whole game.
Just like whatever PR they come up with launching the reputation system of course the real reasons stay internally and then a percentage will always be naive and copy past anything developers say.
To be fair, the devs may have meant that they wanted those specific locations for Trill and Feringinar, as opposed to making room in the code.
Then why remove all the clusters? Unless they plan on making 16 Trills and 16 Ferenginars all over the map, there's no reason to remove all of the exploration clusters.
I think of it more like a television network. Almost all have room to expand if you cut into reruns. Or like displays in a grocery store. But something has to perform to justify its space: content has to earn its keep. Each gig has to be justified by performance.
If some gigs aren't performing, if a display in a store isn't generating a return for the square footage it takes up, you pull it.
And that's one of the bigger issues we're facing here. Instead of running STO as a video game, they're running it as a grocery store. No good can come of it.
ALL of them: It makes a significant difference in the download size? People get lost in them? Not up to a quality standard? (I even snorted typing that last bit out) These supposed factors scare off new players? Nope, not buying it.
just because you don't agree, doesn't mean it isn't real.
The quality of those missions was laughable 4 years ago...many magazines even stated those missions specifically as being a joke compared to other titles released in these years. (Go to point A, klick 5 consoles on planet Y)
Another person even postet that those maps (which aren't randomly created but taken from a pool of missions) are a big junk of data...even if you don't believe it.
Those missions scare off new players is a claim made by cryptic, which is probably the result of the data they collect from players. Probably people actually complained about it and wrote angry letter about it to cryptic. (which we ofcourse have never seen)
why would cryptic need to lie about it anyway? They can do with their property whatever they freaking want without giving any explanation at all.
And that's one of the bigger issues we're facing here. Instead of running STO as a video game, they're running it as a grocery store. No good can come of it.
Are you certain that this an accurate and meaningful description here? Don'T you just take the analogy a bit to literal and missed its real meaning?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Because they have a nasty habbit of doing just that?
No, they don't have a habit of lying. What they have a habit of doing is telling people what they are planning/hoping to do, and assuming that people are reasonable enough to understand that in a fluid environment like MMO development, those plans may change based on new data etc.
The fact that some posters are unable to tell the difference between "This is what we plan to do" and "This is what we pinky swear cross our hearts double secret promise" is not a problem with Cryptic, it's a problem with those posters.
This is simply another example of the echo chamber effect of the forums, where the manufactured outrage of a few trolls gets amplified by each clown trying to "out-pessimist" the others. The feeling that Cryptic is doing an exclusively bad job, or that the game is doomed, or that Cryptic is lying - those feelings are not valid. They are not actually based in fact, and they are not helpful, or even worth expressing.
Look, I get that for some people, this news activated the reptile part of their brain that responds with anger and jealousy at the idea of having something "taken away" - the fact is, though, that actually what you are "losing" is itself a bad thing - you have less missions, sure, but the missions you lost were not actually worth playing, and if you were playing them anyway, it was distracting you from the other, better content out there. Complaining about losing exploration cluster missions is like complaining that someone took away your opportunity to get the flu.
Look, I get that for some people, this news activated the reptile part of their brain that responds with anger and jealousy at the idea of having something "taken away" - the fact is, though, that actually what you are "losing" is itself a bad thing - you have less missions, sure, but the missions you lost were not actually worth playing, and if you were playing them anyway, it was distracting you from the other, better content out there. Complaining about losing exploration cluster missions is like complaining that someone took away your opportunity to get the flu.
Here's the thing, though. Your opinion means to me about as much as last year's snow. And this is all your opinion. So you do the math.
Although you made a perfect example of what I feel Cryptic is trying to do (and I may be wrong) - telling us, the players, what we should play. And I should play what they want me to play, right? If I don't do that, they'll just remove it to show me the right path? :rolleyes:
Here's the thing, though. Your opinion means to me about as much as last year's snow. And this is all your opinion. So you do the math.
Although you made a perfect example of what I feel Cryptic is trying to do (and I may be wrong) - telling us, the players, what we should play. And I should play what they want me to play, right? If I don't do that, they'll just remove it to show me the right path? :rolleyes:
Yes. If you are playing the game badly, you should thank Cryptic for taking steps to improve the game so as to guide you to a better play experience. The fact that you don't want a better play experience doesn't mean that it is not, objectively, a better play experience, it just shows that you have bad taste.
I mean, seriously? The entire JOB of the game developers is to create content to shape your experience. It's pretty disingenuous to act upset when they do so.
Yes. If you are playing the game badly, you should thank Cryptic for taking steps to improve the game so as to guide you to a better play experience. The fact that you don't want a better play experience doesn't mean that it is not, objectively, a better play experience, it just shows that you have bad taste.
I mean, seriously? The entire JOB of the game developers is to create content to shape your experience. It's pretty disingenuous to act upset when they do so.
Ah, but ofcourse, how could I miss this - you, who dug out Bucephalus from it's grave so you can be on the highest of high horses, are going to tell me the "real" stories about my taste and what my taste should be like. LMAO, get a grip.
What part of the stated reasons don't make sense to you?
Every part. The excuses passed off as reasons are unadulterated rubbish. There's not one "downside" they cite as why those clusters must be neutered that doesn't apply to a significant portion of the rest of the game, yet they're not removing countless other things that have the same weaknesses.
by removing areas to travel at it will become less trek...
instead of removing stuff they should add random anomalies that can affect you while you travel.. pull you into them and make you fight for oyu lives... just like in trek...
(( you know in pokemon when you were wanderign through the bushes you could get attacked randomly.. ))
Look, I get that for some people, this news activated the reptile part of their brain that responds with anger and jealousy at the idea of having something "taken away" - the fact is, though, that actually what you are "losing" is itself a bad thing - you have less missions, sure, but the missions you lost were not actually worth playing, and if you were playing them anyway, it was distracting you from the other, better content out there. Complaining about losing exploration cluster missions is like complaining that someone took away your opportunity to get the flu.
No.
Even the devs acknowledge that we are losing something that was playing a role in making this game seem more Trek like.
No, they don't have a habit of lying. What they have a habit of doing is telling people what they are planning/hoping to do, and assuming that people are reasonable enough to understand that in a fluid environment like MMO development, those plans may change based on new data etc.
The fact that some posters are unable to tell the difference between "This is what we plan to do" and "This is what we pinky swear cross our hearts double secret promise" is not a problem with Cryptic, it's a problem with those posters.
This is simply another example of the echo chamber effect of the forums, where the manufactured outrage of a few trolls gets amplified by each clown trying to "out-pessimist" the others. The feeling that Cryptic is doing an exclusively bad job, or that the game is doomed, or that Cryptic is lying - those feelings are not valid. They are not actually based in fact, and they are not helpful, or even worth expressing.
Look, I get that for some people, this news activated the reptile part of their brain that responds with anger and jealousy at the idea of having something "taken away" - the fact is, though, that actually what you are "losing" is itself a bad thing - you have less missions, sure, but the missions you lost were not actually worth playing, and if you were playing them anyway, it was distracting you from the other, better content out there. Complaining about losing exploration cluster missions is like complaining that someone took away your opportunity to get the flu.
Accusing people of trolling, are you?
Your points are worthless, for this content was not mandatory.
Also, STO is not a big game. My next game will be 50 gigabytes of awesome.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
No, they don't have a habit of lying. What they have a habit of doing is telling people what they are planning/hoping to do, and assuming that people are reasonable enough to understand that in a fluid environment like MMO development, those plans may change based on new data etc.
The fact that some posters are unable to tell the difference between "This is what we plan to do" and "This is what we pinky swear cross our hearts double secret promise" is not a problem with Cryptic, it's a problem with those posters.
This is simply another example of the echo chamber effect of the forums, where the manufactured outrage of a few trolls gets amplified by each clown trying to "out-pessimist" the others. The feeling that Cryptic is doing an exclusively bad job, or that the game is doomed, or that Cryptic is lying - those feelings are not valid. They are not actually based in fact, and they are not helpful, or even worth expressing.
Look, I get that for some people, this news activated the reptile part of their brain that responds with anger and jealousy at the idea of having something "taken away" - the fact is, though, that actually what you are "losing" is itself a bad thing - you have less missions, sure, but the missions you lost were not actually worth playing, and if you were playing them anyway, it was distracting you from the other, better content out there. Complaining about losing exploration cluster missions is like complaining that someone took away your opportunity to get the flu.
The nerve of some people. Logic and sanity have no place in these forums just like facts have no place in organized religion.
For as much the franchise was built on the idea of a greater search for facts and logic, it never ceases to amaze me just how much the Star Trek Online forums seems to have neither at times.
For as much the franchise was built on the idea of a greater search for facts and logic, it never ceases to amaze me just how much the Star Trek Online forums seems to have neither at times.
Like when a post that is 50% flame bait and trolling is praised for bringing sanity and logic to a discussion. :P
Like when a post that is 50% flame bait and trolling is praised for bringing sanity and logic to a discussion. :P
Logic, sanity and reality are not inherently 'flame bait' and trolling. Just because I mention that the sky is blue doesn't mean that I'm intentionally trying to TRIBBLE people off who hate and despise the color blue and want them to call me a 'blue color' fanboy that's trying to stir a hornet's nest by saying that the sky is blue when people are well-known to react badly whenever the color blue is brought up.
The truth simply is. And if people can't handle having their delusional reality that doesn't exist broken down and burned all around them so that facts can be revealed?
Then that is a problem with their reaction to being exposed to facts -- it's not the fault of the person for making factual statements because it might rustle the jimmies of the truly delusional and chronically cynical.
Like when a post that is 50% flame bait and trolling is praised for bringing sanity and logic to a discussion. :P
Here here.
The poster even had the never to tell another player that the way they choose to enjoy the game was 'doing it wrong' and trying to be a white knight. In what way are these things 'facts'? PUH-LEASE
I don't PvP, I think it's terrible. But I am not going to advocate it's removal. If Cryptic DID remove it, I would trumpet the call just as loudly that it was a bad decision.
I praise Cryptic when they do something I like: Free Oddy, free Ambassador, Legacy of Romulus, two extra ship slots.
Removing content is bad. Defending the move and calling other players morons is bad. Mmmmmkay
STO is roughly ~10 gigs, not including installs for tribble and redshirt or a large screenshots folder. So I wonder how much it would shave off by removing all of the cluster exploration missions.
which always makes me laugh
"oh its to big ppl get fed up" well the old republic was 10g from the start and that never stopped people buying and installing it.
a lame excuse if i ever herd it.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Logic, sanity and reality are not inherently 'flame bait' and trolling. Just because I mention that the sky is blue doesn't mean that I'm intentionally trying to TRIBBLE people off who hate and despise the color blue and want them to call me a 'blue color' fanboy that's trying to stir a hornet's nest by saying that the sky is blue when people are well-known to react badly whenever the color blue is brought up.
The truth simply is. And if people can't handle having their delusional reality that doesn't exist broken down and burned all around them so that facts can be revealed?
Then that is a problem with their reaction to being exposed to facts -- it's not the fault of the person for making factual statements because it might rustle the jimmies of the truly delusional and chronically cynical.
I assume you mean the bits about the Cryptic devs not actually lying to people; which I agree with.
That's as opposed the bits that are pure opinion; but are presented as facts, and in a way that seems designed to aggravate (the reptile part of my brain? Charming).
"oh its to big ppl get fed up" well the old republic was 10g from the start and that never stopped people buying and installing it.
a lame excuse if i ever herd it.
Another thing is as far as hard drive space, 10gb is nothing. any pc you buy now is gonna be 500gb and up. As far as the size making for a slower download, who cares? Most people have that in mp3s, pics, and other stuff they downloaded, heck, half the people here probably have 10g or more in internet TRIBBLE, that probably took the same amount of time.
"oh its to big ppl get fed up" well the old republic was 10g from the start and that never stopped people buying and installing it.
a lame excuse if i ever herd it.
When EP 2 comes out, and the forum is bombarded with rage posts about how slow the Cryptic Launcher is downloading the X gig update, and how incompetent Cryptic is for not having a better loader, and how the player is never going to play STO again because of the slow download speed, remember your statement.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
When EP 2 comes out, and the forum is bombarded with rage posts about how slow the Cryptic Launcher is downloading the X gig update, and how incompetent Cryptic is for not having a better loader, and how the player is never going to play STO again because of the slow download speed, remember your statement.
Removing exploration is going to make a difference either way in this regard?
Removing exploration is going to make a difference either way in this regard?
My point was that download speed matters to people. We can see that by the nerd rage posts that hit the forum every time a big update comes around.
You cannot compare a game loaded from disks to a game loaded from the internet. The guy with the $15.00 a month internet could take all night to download STO - and he prays there is no problem while he is sleeping that requires him to start over.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
if you using 15$ internet i feel sooo sooo sorry for you and imo and you should not be MMO gaming sorry......... may want to find a game that accommodate 10 year old internet or get a better pc
My point was that download speed matters to people. We can see that by the nerd rage posts that hit the forum every time a big update comes around.
You cannot compare a game loaded from disks to a game loaded from the internet. The guy with the $15.00 a month internet could take all night to download STO - and he prays there is no problem while he is sleeping that requires him to start over.
Indeed!
My point is that the stated excuse(s) for taking exploration out is rubbish.
Comments
ALL of them: It makes a significant difference in the download size? People get lost in them? Not up to a quality standard? (I even snorted typing that last bit out) These supposed factors scare off new players? Nope, not buying it.
I think mostly everything they do is to benefit their own agenda - for example removing mirror event to force you to play all them story missions we all hate.
Yet in the same breath still have the audacity to say it's all about quality like the story missions aren't straight up torture and downright the most terrible part of the whole game.
Just like whatever PR they come up with launching the reputation system of course the real reasons stay internally and then a percentage will always be naive and copy past anything developers say.
Then why remove all the clusters? Unless they plan on making 16 Trills and 16 Ferenginars all over the map, there's no reason to remove all of the exploration clusters.
And that's one of the bigger issues we're facing here. Instead of running STO as a video game, they're running it as a grocery store. No good can come of it.
just because you don't agree, doesn't mean it isn't real.
The quality of those missions was laughable 4 years ago...many magazines even stated those missions specifically as being a joke compared to other titles released in these years. (Go to point A, klick 5 consoles on planet Y)
Another person even postet that those maps (which aren't randomly created but taken from a pool of missions) are a big junk of data...even if you don't believe it.
Those missions scare off new players is a claim made by cryptic, which is probably the result of the data they collect from players. Probably people actually complained about it and wrote angry letter about it to cryptic. (which we ofcourse have never seen)
why would cryptic need to lie about it anyway? They can do with their property whatever they freaking want without giving any explanation at all.
Because they have a nasty habbit of doing just that?
Which is exaclty what they've been doing, especially since the beginning of this year. That doesn't mean that everyone should be happy about it.
No, they don't have a habit of lying. What they have a habit of doing is telling people what they are planning/hoping to do, and assuming that people are reasonable enough to understand that in a fluid environment like MMO development, those plans may change based on new data etc.
The fact that some posters are unable to tell the difference between "This is what we plan to do" and "This is what we pinky swear cross our hearts double secret promise" is not a problem with Cryptic, it's a problem with those posters.
This is simply another example of the echo chamber effect of the forums, where the manufactured outrage of a few trolls gets amplified by each clown trying to "out-pessimist" the others. The feeling that Cryptic is doing an exclusively bad job, or that the game is doomed, or that Cryptic is lying - those feelings are not valid. They are not actually based in fact, and they are not helpful, or even worth expressing.
Look, I get that for some people, this news activated the reptile part of their brain that responds with anger and jealousy at the idea of having something "taken away" - the fact is, though, that actually what you are "losing" is itself a bad thing - you have less missions, sure, but the missions you lost were not actually worth playing, and if you were playing them anyway, it was distracting you from the other, better content out there. Complaining about losing exploration cluster missions is like complaining that someone took away your opportunity to get the flu.
Nope, I believe I'm spot on. It's maybe not what stoleviathan meant, however my analogy stands in terms of how this game is being managed lately.
Here's the thing, though. Your opinion means to me about as much as last year's snow. And this is all your opinion. So you do the math.
Although you made a perfect example of what I feel Cryptic is trying to do (and I may be wrong) - telling us, the players, what we should play. And I should play what they want me to play, right? If I don't do that, they'll just remove it to show me the right path? :rolleyes:
Yes. If you are playing the game badly, you should thank Cryptic for taking steps to improve the game so as to guide you to a better play experience. The fact that you don't want a better play experience doesn't mean that it is not, objectively, a better play experience, it just shows that you have bad taste.
I mean, seriously? The entire JOB of the game developers is to create content to shape your experience. It's pretty disingenuous to act upset when they do so.
Ah, but ofcourse, how could I miss this - you, who dug out Bucephalus from it's grave so you can be on the highest of high horses, are going to tell me the "real" stories about my taste and what my taste should be like. LMAO
Every part. The excuses passed off as reasons are unadulterated rubbish. There's not one "downside" they cite as why those clusters must be neutered that doesn't apply to a significant portion of the rest of the game, yet they're not removing countless other things that have the same weaknesses.
instead of removing stuff they should add random anomalies that can affect you while you travel.. pull you into them and make you fight for oyu lives... just like in trek...
(( you know in pokemon when you were wanderign through the bushes you could get attacked randomly.. ))
No.
Even the devs acknowledge that we are losing something that was playing a role in making this game seem more Trek like.
Accusing people of trolling, are you?
Your points are worthless, for this content was not mandatory.
Also, STO is not a big game. My next game will be 50 gigabytes of awesome.
This is one of my favorite posts in this thread.
Here's to you bringing some logic and sanity into the STO forums.
The nerve of some people. Logic and sanity have no place in these forums just like facts have no place in organized religion.
For as much the franchise was built on the idea of a greater search for facts and logic, it never ceases to amaze me just how much the Star Trek Online forums seems to have neither at times.
Like when a post that is 50% flame bait and trolling is praised for bringing sanity and logic to a discussion. :P
Logic, sanity and reality are not inherently 'flame bait' and trolling. Just because I mention that the sky is blue doesn't mean that I'm intentionally trying to TRIBBLE people off who hate and despise the color blue and want them to call me a 'blue color' fanboy that's trying to stir a hornet's nest by saying that the sky is blue when people are well-known to react badly whenever the color blue is brought up.
The truth simply is. And if people can't handle having their delusional reality that doesn't exist broken down and burned all around them so that facts can be revealed?
Then that is a problem with their reaction to being exposed to facts -- it's not the fault of the person for making factual statements because it might rustle the jimmies of the truly delusional and chronically cynical.
/10chars.
Here here.
The poster even had the never to tell another player that the way they choose to enjoy the game was 'doing it wrong' and trying to be a white knight. In what way are these things 'facts'? PUH-LEASE
I don't PvP, I think it's terrible. But I am not going to advocate it's removal. If Cryptic DID remove it, I would trumpet the call just as loudly that it was a bad decision.
I praise Cryptic when they do something I like: Free Oddy, free Ambassador, Legacy of Romulus, two extra ship slots.
Removing content is bad. Defending the move and calling other players morons is bad. Mmmmmkay
which always makes me laugh
"oh its to big ppl get fed up" well the old republic was 10g from the start and that never stopped people buying and installing it.
a lame excuse if i ever herd it.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I assume you mean the bits about the Cryptic devs not actually lying to people; which I agree with.
That's as opposed the bits that are pure opinion; but are presented as facts, and in a way that seems designed to aggravate (the reptile part of my brain? Charming).
Another thing is as far as hard drive space, 10gb is nothing. any pc you buy now is gonna be 500gb and up. As far as the size making for a slower download, who cares? Most people have that in mp3s, pics, and other stuff they downloaded, heck, half the people here probably have 10g or more in internet TRIBBLE, that probably took the same amount of time.
system Lord Baal is dead
Removing exploration is going to make a difference either way in this regard?
You cannot compare a game loaded from disks to a game loaded from the internet. The guy with the $15.00 a month internet could take all night to download STO - and he prays there is no problem while he is sleeping that requires him to start over.
system Lord Baal is dead
Indeed!
My point is that the stated excuse(s) for taking exploration out is rubbish.