3. Reduce the crafting time for all the item projects.
In Al Rivera's Priority One interview, he stated that leveling up to level 15 in a crafting school should take about as much time as completing a reputation to tier 5. So at most on any rep system available now, I would have to spend 1 hour for 2 days a week getting at least enough marks to cover my daily rep projects for the week, and no more than 10 minutes the other 5 days a week to log in and collect my rep XP and start the next project.
3 hours a week x 6 weeks (40 days) = 18 hours of actual button clicking and a lot of waiting...
I agree, given it takes 45 days for a single player to reach Tier 5 Reptuation and Geko saying he expects us to spend 45 days per crafting school is pure insanity. Because it would take an entire year to complete all 8 schools to Level 15. And on top of it, the max is level 20 (unless that's changed).
I'm sorry, Geko but you people are making crafting even more unappealing than the Dilithum Tax with the previous version. Now there is not only more requirements to spend Dilithum, but Zen and a huge time investment. I think people will just pass up this new crafting system. Oh sure there might be a few, but the vast majority (I say 97% of the playerbase) will not bother in the long-run (after a few weeks).
You got to remember you got Fleet stores and Reputation stores that you can get stuff now, and players will not wait an entire year for these high end goodies. Especially when there is a strong possibility that whatever Seasons is to come, better gear might come out.
So I think you people are just shooting yourselves in the foot again and wasting precious development time on another failed system.
Here is another one where things do not make sense...because some subcomponents are shared among different schools...e.g. Electromagnetic Couplings, subcomponent crafting should be separate of crafting in any of the schools bu subcomponent recipes should be given out for respective levels in particular schools. I say this because let's say I am lvl 5 in Cannons and lvl 0 in Projectiles. If I try to craft an Electromagnetic Coupling for Cannons I have a +50 but in Projectiles to craft the same subcomponent it is +0??? That makes no sense whatsoever even from a design perspective.
I agree, given it takes 45 days for a single player to reach Tier 5 Reptuation and Geko saying he expects us to spend 45 days per crafting school is pure insanity. Because it would take an entire year to complete all 8 schools to Level 15. And on top of it, the max is level 20 (unless that's changed).
Yeah if it is 45 days per school they are shooting for, then they are way off on their calculations. It would take about 32 days of CONTINUOUS crafting to max out a single school, that is 24/7 crafting projects running.
Yeah if it is 45 days per school they are shooting for, then they are way off on their calculations. It would take about 32 days of CONTINUOUS crafting to max out a single school, that is 24/7 crafting projects running.
Yeah, and that amount of resources .......... well lets just say I'm sure it's not going to be easy to acquire.
They said they want Crafting to be fun, but so far I see nothing fun about this new system. And I've crafted in many MMOs since Everquest. Those other crafting were fun to do and I could sit there for hours, but not THIS. They need to increase the fun factor by a large margin or nobody will be willing to do this. Especially when it's treated like another reputation grind.
You hear me Devs? Get the cotton out of your ears and make STO crafting fun. Else those who left with Season 8.5, 9 will not bother coming back since all they see is just another stupid grind. People are done with grinding, that's why your population is dropping like flies now and they are going to your competitors.
With the forever ongoing discussion on whether Crafting (especially with randomization) should even have Dilithium cost:
What if you get Dilithium back from a Crafting mission that doesn't deliver a Very Rare result?
(Be it in refined or unrefined form, I leave that to the devs decide).
Not sure if the DOFF reward system can handle that - normally, it only gives out more with better results, in this particularly case, it would give more with worse results.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I agree, given it takes 45 days for a single player to reach Tier 5 Reptuation and Geko saying he expects us to spend 45 days per crafting school is pure insanity. Because it would take an entire year to complete all 8 schools to Level 15. And on top of it, the max is level 20 (unless that's changed)..
Then don't try to finish every school at once? Pick one and trade for the rest. Put the MM back into this MMORPG.
In addition, you can earn Very Rare materials by participating in queued events, and you can purchase R&D packs from the C-Store, which will give you an assortment of materials.
...which means it's probably going to be tough finding them for testing since pugging generally doesn't work on Tribble without a Tribble Test Weekend (assuming those are still a possibility). If you really want info on drop rates or the drops themselves, check for a Fleet to join on Tribble, or recruit 4 friends to join you over on Tribble to run a couple ESTFs. Of course, since I haven't done so I can't guarantee that the drops have been added to the queues just yet, Tribble being a test build after all.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
- The ability to craft new weapon types like omni beams and wide arc DHCs
I'd like to be able to craft more than just the basic damage types though. It would be nice to make an omni-directional protonic polaron beam, for example.
What I don't like:
- The doff UI takes way too much screen space. It looks like an UI designed for a tablet or smartphone. I think the old UI was easier to sort through.
Either condense the UI to a smaller size per row or at least make better use of the screen space. You could add a button next to needed materials to auto-replicate them, for example. Also, multi-column layouts are not a bad thing. You just have to organize them well.
- Crafting should not be random, at least not when major costs are involved. The prices of fleet gear seem to be acceptable for the player base, so you could use them as orientation.
I'm willing to pay up to 50k dilithium for a specific highend piece of equipment with predetermined attributes, no big deal. But not for the mere chance of getting something decent. If I want to play the dili/zen lottery, I open lock boxes. I don't need another game of chance.
How about a system where a critical success unlocks a random modfier or a new special damage type instead? (if you really, really must have some randomness in the system)
I highly doubt I'm gonna use the crafting system in it's current form (unless there have been some changes since I last checked)
Lots of skillrating bugfixes and math changes coming soon.
Will any of these math changes address the time it takes to level to 15. Currently there is a mismatch (as has been said by others) between what has been said about the time, and what currently is on Tribble.
Will any of these math changes address the time it takes to level to 15. Currently there is a mismatch (as has been said by others) between what has been said about the time, and what currently is on Tribble.
No - but your quoted post does not seem to take into account multiple slots allowing you to progress more quickly than 10 xp per minute, which the XP curve assumes you will use. Slots 4 and 5 are actually totally bonus and were added in playtesting, and we didn't go back and scale XP around them. By my calculations, it will take 350 hours of R+D to hit level 15, almost all of which can be offline time assuming a large starting resource stockpile.
The system's supposed to be a long-term goal for level 15, and even more so for level 20. Not everyone will like that, but some people will like it very much.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
No - but your quoted post does not seem to take into account multiple slots allowing you to progress more quickly than 10 xp per minute, which the XP curve assumes you will use. Slots 4 and 5 are actually totally bonus and were added in playtesting, and we didn't go back and scale XP around them. By my calculations, it will take 350 hours of R+D to hit level 15, almost all of which can be offline time assuming a large starting resource stockpile.
The system's supposed to be a long-term goal for level 15, and even more so for level 20. Not everyone will like that, but some people will like it very much.
It will take ~279 hrs of continuous crafting 24/7 to hit lvl 15 at 2,400 XP/hour (four slots assuming you stop and level two other schools to 5). But all metrics for this game are built around 4-hr play sessions (as we are told). Not continuous play sessions. Although you say you can level up continuously this is simply not true because one person cannot make the higher level items that have a longer timer alone. We simply do not have access to those schematics, nor will people have an unlimited pool of resources.
The best strategy I have found so far for crafting leveling is making only MK VI items to sell off as vendor junk. That means in a 4hr play session I can get 9,600 XP. This also means to reach level 15 it will take me ~70 4hr play sessions.
Nevertheless, the XP curves are way too steep as this puts even one crafting school at nearly twice the time gate of a reputation system.
It will take ~279 hrs of continuous crafting 24/7 to hit lvl 15 at 2,400 XP/hour (four slots assuming you stop and level two other schools to 5). But all metrics for this game are built around 4-hr play sessions (as we are told). Not continuous play sessions. Although you say you can level up continuously this is simply not true because one person cannot make the higher level items that have a longer timer alone. We simply do not have access to those schematics, nor will people have an unlimited pool of resources.
The best strategy I have found so far for crafting leveling is making only MK VI items to sell off as vendor junk. That means in a 4hr play session I can get 9,600 XP. This also means to reach level 15 it will take me ~70 4hr play sessions.
Nevertheless, the XP curves are way too steep as this puts even one crafting school at nearly twice the time gate of a reputation system.
Math isn't cryptic strong suite. You may have noticed them mixing up fractions and percentages on tool tips. Still not seeing any improvements that will make this system friendly for the average player.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
No - but your quoted post does not seem to take into account multiple slots allowing you to progress more quickly than 10 xp per minute, which the XP curve assumes you will use. Slots 4 and 5 are actually totally bonus and were added in playtesting, and we didn't go back and scale XP around them. By my calculations, it will take 350 hours of R+D to hit level 15, almost all of which can be offline time assuming a large starting resource stockpile.
The system's supposed to be a long-term goal for level 15, and even more so for level 20. Not everyone will like that, but some people will like it very much.
350 hours? No. 350 hours to get the ability to gamble for something you MIGHT want is unacceptable. And when you say "large stockpile," do you know what that means? I fully expect to consume max stacks of raw materials before that point because of the Components required. It was almost okay to take a month for a Reputation, when you could get passable or even desirable gear along the WAY. You're saying 350 hours - at my average play time of 6 hours a day, almost two months, and at 24 hours a day two weeks - to be able to GAMBLE for the CHANCE at the item you actually WANT?
NO. I love Crafting. You just killed my desire to use this system. Your terms are unacceptable. The time requirement must be lowered. Considerably. 100 hours, if you still wanted it to be a difficult time investment. Because Reputations, while technically requiring twice that, can be done passively. This system really cannot if you expect to make any sort of headway. Those other two crafting slots are practically required to produce Components for the next item you're going to waste materials on for XP. Either make the gear you make at non-level-15 worthwhile, or triple XP gains. Otherwise, this will be WORSE than the crafting system currently on live - after all, barely anyone uses THAT. Less people will use this.
It will take ~279 hrs of continuous crafting 24/7 to hit lvl 15 at 2,400 XP/hour (four slots assuming you stop and level two other schools to 5). But all metrics for this game are built around 4-hr play sessions (as we are told). Not continuous play sessions. Although you say you can level up continuously this is simply not true because one person cannot make the higher level items that have a longer timer alone. We simply do not have access to those schematics, nor will people have an unlimited pool of resources.
The best strategy I have found so far for crafting leveling is making only MK VI items to sell off as vendor junk. That means in a 4hr play session I can get 9,600 XP. This also means to reach level 15 it will take me ~70 4hr play sessions.
Nevertheless, the XP curves are way too steep as this puts even one crafting school at nearly twice the time gate of a reputation system.
QFT. Hawk, a lot of people are not seeing what you apparently can. If there is some way to stack projects, I don't think anyone can see it. Now, if there is a way that you can harvest a bunch of material, and then que up like 24 hours worth of projects, then sure, 350 hours is fine, as long as I don't have to be awake for all of it. But from what I last saw on tribble, this isn't the case.
EDIT: Ninja'd. Curse me for using a tablet. Okay, waiting for the next update. Also, if you don't want the rage, may I respectfully request that next update you release in an incomplete state you put out something that states your total picturefor the system and say in the tribble patch notes when you implement it?
I would respectfully request that you holster your outrage until the next patch to Tribble.
And by saying this, you have increased expectations for people who are already jaded about this system due to several glaringly bad design decisions. I honestly hope for the sake of your sanity that this patch fixes the system.
Though, if you'd like a tip, Geko said (on Priority One) that mod customization was being built in, but wouldn't be ready until later. Frankly, I don't think anyone would mind if you pushed the 9.5 launch back two months to make sure the system would be done at launch. A lot of STO's problems - especially problems that it launched with - were due to the game having to be rushed out the door. Unless there's some massive thing where you HAVE to launch this this month (which, if there is, you could try explaining), push it back and give it the time it needs. Frankly, I'd rather wait 2 more months for a finished system than have the system as is now.
Though, if you'd like a tip, Geko said (on Priority One) that mod customization was being built in, but wouldn't be ready until later. Frankly, I don't think anyone would mind if you pushed the 9.5 launch back two months to make sure the system would be done at launch. A lot of STO's problems - especially problems that it launched with - were due to the game having to be rushed out the door. Unless there's some massive thing where you HAVE to launch this this month (which, if there is, you could try explaining), push it back and give it the time it needs. Frankly, I'd rather wait 2 more months for a finished system than have the system as is now.
I'm a game designer, not a producer or a director. I don't control release schedules. And while I'm familiar with the reasonings behind our particular schedule, as it's not my purview, it wouldn't really be kosher to talk about it.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Maybe an official master list of features the complete system will include, not including the stuff you already have, with their tentative release dates...
By my calculations, it will take 350 hours of R+D to hit level 15, almost all of which can be offline time assuming a large starting resource stockpile.
The system's supposed to be a long-term goal for level 15, and even more so for level 20. Not everyone will like that, but some people will like it very much.
6 months to reach Level 15 per school? (1 year for Level 20 per school?) :eek:
If that should be the case then, PLEASE MAKE CRAFTING PER ACCOUNT THAN PER CHARACTER! Please remember that a good percentage of the playerbase has multiple characters (3 or more) and if you put all this work on them, players will lose interest. This on top of the new Dilithum costs, the randomness of the crafted item, and the various other doodads such as Catalysts and DOFFs.
So you guys are really making the Crafting system even less appealing than the current version.
Buying / Selling items on the exchange doesn't make it an MMO. :P
6 months to reach Level 15 per school? (1 year for Level 20 per school?) :eek:
If that should be the case then, PLEASE MAKE CRAFTING PER ACCOUNT THAN PER CHARACTER! Please remember that a good percentage of the playerbase has multiple characters (3 or more) and if you put all this work on them, players will lose interest. This on top of the new Dilithum costs, the randomness of the crafted item, and the various other doodads such as Catalysts and DOFFs.
So you guys are really making the Crafting system even less appealing than the current version.
Not only don't you know what the MMO stand for, you can't do math. 350 hours is ~14.5 days, 6 months ~12x longer than that.
Everyone quibbling with the numbers on this are ignoring the fact that he is saying you will be able to queue up projects and let them run while you are offline, assuming you have enough mats to do so, you can run the system 24/7 even with a limited hour or so window of playtime.
They have also stated that anything crafted is account bound on equip, so there is no need to make crafting account wide, it already is. You'd have to be pretty daft to do this on multiple characters, and the only benefit to doing so is to save the few seconds it takes to switch between characters.
Can you do nothing but break things, nerf things & introduce more grinding? I have had enough Craptic & ban me because you can kiss my posterior. I have no desire to engage in more grinding, I already have 2 master craftsmen & now your going to take that away from me. You all are truly pathetic.
6 months to reach Level 15 per school? (1 year for Level 20 per school?) :eek:
If that should be the case then, PLEASE MAKE CRAFTING PER ACCOUNT THAN PER CHARACTER! Please remember that a good percentage of the playerbase has multiple characters (3 or more) and if you put all this work on them, players will lose interest. This on top of the new Dilithum costs, the randomness of the crafted item, and the various other doodads such as Catalysts and DOFFs.
So you guys are really making the Crafting system even less appealing than the current version.
Agreed. I'm hardly finding the time to do Rep stuff and Risa. You think I'll devote 6 months per toon to crafting?
1 school for my Engineer, 1 school each for my 2 main Tacs, and to be able to craft Aegis I need 3 schools on one specific toon? That in itself will take a ton of time. I'm not even trying to get 1 toon fully leveled in R&D!
If it's going to take a casual gamer 6 months to level up 1 R&D school on one character, and some of us can only focus on one, maybe two, characters at a time, this will end up being so slow to be seen as not worth the effort.
I'll start getting my EC reserves ready and crafting as much Aegis as I can. I sense the ability to gather great amounts of EC when the system turns. Some people will have the time and patience and can make a killing on gear. Others will not have the time and have to take the slow path, putting them behind as potentially another Season/Expansion comes out before even 1 school is leveled enough to make its high-end gear.
Can you do nothing but break things, nerf things & introduce more grinding? I have had enough Craptic & ban me because you can kiss my posterior. I have no desire to engage in more grinding, I already have 2 master craftsmen & now your going to take that away from me. You all are truly pathetic.
Everyone quibbling with the numbers on this are ignoring the fact that he is saying you will be able to queue up projects and let them run while you are offline, assuming you have enough mats to do so, you can run the system 24/7 even with a limited hour or so window of playtime.
Okay, let me riddle you this: Without sleep, an average human will die after 10 days. You just said that it is acceptable for that person to sit in a game client and/or in front of a screen grinding for longer than they can survive. Because you can't log in while you're asleep. Or at work. Or driving. Or having a life. According to this game's own developers, this game is aimed at four hour play sections. So, let's assume a few things:
Items after Mk VI still take 1 hour to craft, as Mk VI does on Tribble now, and that those 350 hours mean you have to make 350 total items to get level 15.
You only make 1 item at a time and prefabricate Components while the item crafts.
You play exactly four hours.
You make four items a day.
This allows us to break that 350 hour number down into the number of days that you play that time that you will need to make gear that you MIGHT want to use. Mods, after all, are still a gamble, as is quality, so there's no guarantee of what you want. That is 87.5 days. JUST to get to Level 15, so you can gamble Dilithium on something that might be vendor trash. That is nearly three months... for the CHANCE to make it.
But that's all okay. After all, you can do it all in just under seven hours. All you have to do is shovel Dilithium into your Crafting items like it's coal into a train engine to skip the timer. Which, assuming that this always costs the 900 Dilithium it takes to skip a 1-hour timer, is 315,000 Dilithium. Last I checked, the Dilithium Exchange was at about 155 DpZ. That's 2,033 ZEN. So, all you have to do is pay Cryptic enough money to buy a ship, and you can get the ability to gamble more Dilithium that you'll probably have to buy from the Exchange, meaning you have to pay Cryptic even more money. OH, and there are seven schools to do that with. So, multiply all of that by 7. That's...
2450 hours.
613 average play days, or 21 months - damn near two years.
OR
2,205,000 Refined Dilithium.
$142.26 USD.
So, let me explain to you why 350 hours is utter nonsense regardless of any perks: Because you either wait three freaking months to be able to do anything worthwhile in that School, or you throw your wallet at Cryptic. With the money it would take to get the ability to make all your own end-game gear - not even MAXING the Schools - you could buy a Legacy Pack. Or feed yourself for a month. And it's either that, or wait two years to be able to do it all yourself. And this is BEFORE the material cost for the components of 2,450 items.
No. Taking that long is absolutely absurd and needs to be toned way down. That is monetization that even a Ferengi would hesitate to do.
Comments
I agree, given it takes 45 days for a single player to reach Tier 5 Reptuation and Geko saying he expects us to spend 45 days per crafting school is pure insanity. Because it would take an entire year to complete all 8 schools to Level 15. And on top of it, the max is level 20 (unless that's changed).
I'm sorry, Geko but you people are making crafting even more unappealing than the Dilithum Tax with the previous version. Now there is not only more requirements to spend Dilithum, but Zen and a huge time investment. I think people will just pass up this new crafting system. Oh sure there might be a few, but the vast majority (I say 97% of the playerbase) will not bother in the long-run (after a few weeks).
You got to remember you got Fleet stores and Reputation stores that you can get stuff now, and players will not wait an entire year for these high end goodies. Especially when there is a strong possibility that whatever Seasons is to come, better gear might come out.
So I think you people are just shooting yourselves in the foot again and wasting precious development time on another failed system.
Yeah if it is 45 days per school they are shooting for, then they are way off on their calculations. It would take about 32 days of CONTINUOUS crafting to max out a single school, that is 24/7 crafting projects running.
Yeah, and that amount of resources .......... well lets just say I'm sure it's not going to be easy to acquire.
They said they want Crafting to be fun, but so far I see nothing fun about this new system. And I've crafted in many MMOs since Everquest. Those other crafting were fun to do and I could sit there for hours, but not THIS. They need to increase the fun factor by a large margin or nobody will be willing to do this. Especially when it's treated like another reputation grind.
You hear me Devs? Get the cotton out of your ears and make STO crafting fun. Else those who left with Season 8.5, 9 will not bother coming back since all they see is just another stupid grind. People are done with grinding, that's why your population is dropping like flies now and they are going to your competitors.
What if you get Dilithium back from a Crafting mission that doesn't deliver a Very Rare result?
(Be it in refined or unrefined form, I leave that to the devs decide).
Not sure if the DOFF reward system can handle that - normally, it only gives out more with better results, in this particularly case, it would give more with worse results.
Then don't try to finish every school at once? Pick one and trade for the rest. Put the MM back into this MMORPG.
From Dev Blog #26...
...which means it's probably going to be tough finding them for testing since pugging generally doesn't work on Tribble without a Tribble Test Weekend (assuming those are still a possibility). If you really want info on drop rates or the drops themselves, check for a Fleet to join on Tribble, or recruit 4 friends to join you over on Tribble to run a couple ESTFs. Of course, since I haven't done so I can't guarantee that the drops have been added to the queues just yet, Tribble being a test build after all.
- Extra inventory space for crafting components
- The ability to craft new weapon types like omni beams and wide arc DHCs
I'd like to be able to craft more than just the basic damage types though. It would be nice to make an omni-directional protonic polaron beam, for example.
What I don't like:
- The doff UI takes way too much screen space. It looks like an UI designed for a tablet or smartphone. I think the old UI was easier to sort through.
Either condense the UI to a smaller size per row or at least make better use of the screen space. You could add a button next to needed materials to auto-replicate them, for example. Also, multi-column layouts are not a bad thing. You just have to organize them well.
- Crafting should not be random, at least not when major costs are involved. The prices of fleet gear seem to be acceptable for the player base, so you could use them as orientation.
I'm willing to pay up to 50k dilithium for a specific highend piece of equipment with predetermined attributes, no big deal. But not for the mere chance of getting something decent. If I want to play the dili/zen lottery, I open lock boxes. I don't need another game of chance.
How about a system where a critical success unlocks a random modfier or a new special damage type instead? (if you really, really must have some randomness in the system)
I highly doubt I'm gonna use the crafting system in it's current form (unless there have been some changes since I last checked)
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Looking forward to it. I have my spreadsheet all set up to just plug in new numbers.
Will any of these math changes address the time it takes to level to 15. Currently there is a mismatch (as has been said by others) between what has been said about the time, and what currently is on Tribble.
Please see here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17844131&postcount=571
And here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17768691&postcount=493 (this has a quote of the full xp progression).
They said it better than I could.
Nouveau riche LTS member
No - but your quoted post does not seem to take into account multiple slots allowing you to progress more quickly than 10 xp per minute, which the XP curve assumes you will use. Slots 4 and 5 are actually totally bonus and were added in playtesting, and we didn't go back and scale XP around them. By my calculations, it will take 350 hours of R+D to hit level 15, almost all of which can be offline time assuming a large starting resource stockpile.
The system's supposed to be a long-term goal for level 15, and even more so for level 20. Not everyone will like that, but some people will like it very much.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
It will take ~279 hrs of continuous crafting 24/7 to hit lvl 15 at 2,400 XP/hour (four slots assuming you stop and level two other schools to 5). But all metrics for this game are built around 4-hr play sessions (as we are told). Not continuous play sessions. Although you say you can level up continuously this is simply not true because one person cannot make the higher level items that have a longer timer alone. We simply do not have access to those schematics, nor will people have an unlimited pool of resources.
The best strategy I have found so far for crafting leveling is making only MK VI items to sell off as vendor junk. That means in a 4hr play session I can get 9,600 XP. This also means to reach level 15 it will take me ~70 4hr play sessions.
Nevertheless, the XP curves are way too steep as this puts even one crafting school at nearly twice the time gate of a reputation system.
Math isn't cryptic strong suite. You may have noticed them mixing up fractions and percentages on tool tips. Still not seeing any improvements that will make this system friendly for the average player.
- Judge Aaron Satie
350 hours? No. 350 hours to get the ability to gamble for something you MIGHT want is unacceptable. And when you say "large stockpile," do you know what that means? I fully expect to consume max stacks of raw materials before that point because of the Components required. It was almost okay to take a month for a Reputation, when you could get passable or even desirable gear along the WAY. You're saying 350 hours - at my average play time of 6 hours a day, almost two months, and at 24 hours a day two weeks - to be able to GAMBLE for the CHANCE at the item you actually WANT?
NO. I love Crafting. You just killed my desire to use this system. Your terms are unacceptable. The time requirement must be lowered. Considerably. 100 hours, if you still wanted it to be a difficult time investment. Because Reputations, while technically requiring twice that, can be done passively. This system really cannot if you expect to make any sort of headway. Those other two crafting slots are practically required to produce Components for the next item you're going to waste materials on for XP. Either make the gear you make at non-level-15 worthwhile, or triple XP gains. Otherwise, this will be WORSE than the crafting system currently on live - after all, barely anyone uses THAT. Less people will use this.
Also, where are our Kit recipes?
I would respectfully request that you holster your outrage until the next patch to Tribble.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
QFT. Hawk, a lot of people are not seeing what you apparently can. If there is some way to stack projects, I don't think anyone can see it. Now, if there is a way that you can harvest a bunch of material, and then que up like 24 hours worth of projects, then sure, 350 hours is fine, as long as I don't have to be awake for all of it. But from what I last saw on tribble, this isn't the case.
EDIT: Ninja'd. Curse me for using a tablet. Okay, waiting for the next update. Also, if you don't want the rage, may I respectfully request that next update you release in an incomplete state you put out something that states your total picturefor the system and say in the tribble patch notes when you implement it?
Nouveau riche LTS member
And by saying this, you have increased expectations for people who are already jaded about this system due to several glaringly bad design decisions. I honestly hope for the sake of your sanity that this patch fixes the system.
Though, if you'd like a tip, Geko said (on Priority One) that mod customization was being built in, but wouldn't be ready until later. Frankly, I don't think anyone would mind if you pushed the 9.5 launch back two months to make sure the system would be done at launch. A lot of STO's problems - especially problems that it launched with - were due to the game having to be rushed out the door. Unless there's some massive thing where you HAVE to launch this this month (which, if there is, you could try explaining), push it back and give it the time it needs. Frankly, I'd rather wait 2 more months for a finished system than have the system as is now.
I'm a game designer, not a producer or a director. I don't control release schedules. And while I'm familiar with the reasonings behind our particular schedule, as it's not my purview, it wouldn't really be kosher to talk about it.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Buying / Selling items on the exchange doesn't make it an MMO. :P
6 months to reach Level 15 per school? (1 year for Level 20 per school?) :eek:
If that should be the case then, PLEASE MAKE CRAFTING PER ACCOUNT THAN PER CHARACTER! Please remember that a good percentage of the playerbase has multiple characters (3 or more) and if you put all this work on them, players will lose interest. This on top of the new Dilithum costs, the randomness of the crafted item, and the various other doodads such as Catalysts and DOFFs.
So you guys are really making the Crafting system even less appealing than the current version.
Not only don't you know what the MMO stand for, you can't do math. 350 hours is ~14.5 days, 6 months ~12x longer than that.
Everyone quibbling with the numbers on this are ignoring the fact that he is saying you will be able to queue up projects and let them run while you are offline, assuming you have enough mats to do so, you can run the system 24/7 even with a limited hour or so window of playtime.
They have also stated that anything crafted is account bound on equip, so there is no need to make crafting account wide, it already is. You'd have to be pretty daft to do this on multiple characters, and the only benefit to doing so is to save the few seconds it takes to switch between characters.
Agreed. I'm hardly finding the time to do Rep stuff and Risa. You think I'll devote 6 months per toon to crafting?
1 school for my Engineer, 1 school each for my 2 main Tacs, and to be able to craft Aegis I need 3 schools on one specific toon? That in itself will take a ton of time. I'm not even trying to get 1 toon fully leveled in R&D!
If it's going to take a casual gamer 6 months to level up 1 R&D school on one character, and some of us can only focus on one, maybe two, characters at a time, this will end up being so slow to be seen as not worth the effort.
I'll start getting my EC reserves ready and crafting as much Aegis as I can. I sense the ability to gather great amounts of EC when the system turns. Some people will have the time and patience and can make a killing on gear. Others will not have the time and have to take the slow path, putting them behind as potentially another Season/Expansion comes out before even 1 school is leveled enough to make its high-end gear.
Amen Brother!!!
Okay, let me riddle you this: Without sleep, an average human will die after 10 days. You just said that it is acceptable for that person to sit in a game client and/or in front of a screen grinding for longer than they can survive. Because you can't log in while you're asleep. Or at work. Or driving. Or having a life. According to this game's own developers, this game is aimed at four hour play sections. So, let's assume a few things:
- Items after Mk VI still take 1 hour to craft, as Mk VI does on Tribble now, and that those 350 hours mean you have to make 350 total items to get level 15.
- You only make 1 item at a time and prefabricate Components while the item crafts.
- You play exactly four hours.
- You make four items a day.
This allows us to break that 350 hour number down into the number of days that you play that time that you will need to make gear that you MIGHT want to use. Mods, after all, are still a gamble, as is quality, so there's no guarantee of what you want. That is 87.5 days. JUST to get to Level 15, so you can gamble Dilithium on something that might be vendor trash. That is nearly three months... for the CHANCE to make it.But that's all okay. After all, you can do it all in just under seven hours. All you have to do is shovel Dilithium into your Crafting items like it's coal into a train engine to skip the timer. Which, assuming that this always costs the 900 Dilithium it takes to skip a 1-hour timer, is 315,000 Dilithium. Last I checked, the Dilithium Exchange was at about 155 DpZ. That's 2,033 ZEN. So, all you have to do is pay Cryptic enough money to buy a ship, and you can get the ability to gamble more Dilithium that you'll probably have to buy from the Exchange, meaning you have to pay Cryptic even more money. OH, and there are seven schools to do that with. So, multiply all of that by 7. That's...
- 2450 hours.
- 613 average play days, or 21 months - damn near two years.
ORSo, let me explain to you why 350 hours is utter nonsense regardless of any perks: Because you either wait three freaking months to be able to do anything worthwhile in that School, or you throw your wallet at Cryptic. With the money it would take to get the ability to make all your own end-game gear - not even MAXING the Schools - you could buy a Legacy Pack. Or feed yourself for a month. And it's either that, or wait two years to be able to do it all yourself. And this is BEFORE the material cost for the components of 2,450 items.
No. Taking that long is absolutely absurd and needs to be toned way down. That is monetization that even a Ferengi would hesitate to do.
But....but... DOOOMMMM..
Or we wait for the next patch-notes, like he ask.