Here's my gut reaction from just a bit of dabbling in the system.
It's too grindy!
Here's why I say this, and not that I have a problem with the grind. (although I kinda do, but that's a whole 'nother rant)
So far I can only craft Mark II items. Fine (except, I won't be using them any time soon as a VA50). Getting from Level 0 to Level 1 takes 30 xp. Easily done crafting components. I forgot to write down the difference from Level 1 to 2, but I'm currently working on Level 3 which takes 10,000 experience.
Here's my problem with that. Each Mark II item gives me 50 experience. So, by my back of the envelope math, that means I have to craft 200 items to level up. In the engineering category, that there's five options. That means I've crafted 40 EACH if I decide to diversify.
1) What am I going to do with 40 warp cores (or impulse engines, etc). I'm sure I could diversify it farther (plasma-infused, etc). But seriously, what? I only need one. My fleeties only need one (each). That's an obscene number of items.
2) That's going to flood the market, particularly low level items as people level up crafting. Or, it's going to inflate the energy credit market even more as people sell them off.
3) That's just level 2 to level 3. I can't even make higher Mark things (that I actually care about) until I get my crafting to level 5. So, I'll have a ton of consoles that I don't want/need.
Now, I admit, this crafting system is probably aimed at the new player who doesn't need to craft higher level stuff, and if you craft along the way it may work out better. However, given my experience with the DOff system, I doubt it.
Proposed solutions:
Lower the bar. That's right make it easier to increase levels. Getting from 0-5 just to make Mark IV (and possibly higher) items is a long slog.
Put consumables back in the crafting system. Right now my only options for gaining xp are components, which I only need so many of, or consoles I don't need. Give me something I can use to encourage me to craft until I can build something I actually want/need.
<signature under reconstruction>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Want cheap commodities? Yeah you do. Commodity Cheat Sheet (includes food and data samples)
Want to make the game better? Might I suggest this form
Well it took 3 yrs for me to finally get into the old system, so I guess in 3 yrs (and after some modifications to the new crafting) I will be motivated to expend time in this crafting grind. :rolleyes:
Ah so you're tying the Crafting into the Doff system. Which means our current skills will have no bearing at all. This is NOT good news!
And what you're replacing it with is another attempt to Force us to buy High Quality Doffs... Really very bad! Wow! I can barely keep up with the Doffs system as it stands. Now It may permanently put me off even playing STO.
But my ONE Question is: Will we eventually be able to create top level gear? And make it reliably... It doesn't matter if I can only make a Mk XII purple Beam Array 1 time in ~10 attempts. NO ONE will use a system like that!
Doing this to the crafting system makes no sense to me. Sure the Lock Box game is like playing roulette. And most of the time it frustrating. Only giving you items that are fit for dumping off on the Exchange. Doing this to crafting just makes you folks seem like a bunch of trolls.
However, Since you are going to do this... Please make the conversion systems something other than tedious! What I'm talking about it the exchange system for old samples. From what I hear we will forced to convert them "one by one"... Do you have any Idea how many I have? If you force me to do it one at a time I'll never do it! It would simply take far too long.
The other thing I'm concerned about is what happens to the old Schematics? I've saved up a number of the ones that I use most frequently so I can make items for lower level Fleet members. What happens to them?
Also I have this more general question about the "Update"... If you want us to develop our Doff pool for crafting then why should I keep common Doffs around. And will the Fleet Development systems change? Right Now I get by with Uncommon Doffs for the most part. I have a Very Rare ones for Space and Ground duties. But the whole system needs to change if they are also going to be used for crafting. Something tells me that you haven't really thought this through very well.
I don't want to go too off topic in this thread, but the elite fleet phasers are absolutely gorgeous if you haven't seen them. The stun pistol is by-far the best weapon model in the game. The rifles are properly scaled and beautiful looking. There is currently no combination better than seeing a Starfleet officer wearing the Odyssey uniform and using one of these phasers in a ground mission. They're the 2410 phasers, in my eyes.
(The KDF elite disruptor compression pistol was a massive disappointment by comparison -- I'd rather have one of the standard models.)
I think we might have a two birds one stone situation here:
The models for high mark ground weapons, in many people's eyes, are inferior to the earlier marks. When crafting ground weapons, could we get some way of manipulating their appearance? For instance, if you crafted a Mk XII phaser pistol, you could make it look like the standard issue phaser instead of that huge thing with holograms all over it you get as a random drop. Or make a plasma pistol look like a Romulan disruptor, for Republic players, instead of the other plasma gun style.
The style of the end game weapon models (some fleet and reputation aside) have always been disappointing to me. Letting us change them through the crafting system would be great, but I don't know if the tech's actually there to do it or not.
I don't want to go too off topic in this thread, but the elite fleet phasers are absolutely gorgeous if you haven't seen them. The stun pistol is by-far the best weapon model in the game. The rifles are properly scaled and beautiful looking. There is currently no combination better than seeing a Starfleet officer wearing the Odyssey uniform and using one of these phasers in a ground mission. They're the 2410 phasers, in my eyes.
(The KDF elite disruptor compression pistol was a massive disappointment by comparison -- I'd rather have one of the standard models.)
I agree that most of the standard Mk XI and Mk XII weapons look too big. Elite fleet phasers are appropriately sized, but it would be nice to be able to reskin some of the standard weapons (or the MACO Phaser Battle Rifle, for that matter) to something less bulky. I wouldn't get my hopes up that such a feature will come with Season 9.5 though.
1: Add more goodies. Non-unique ARC dhcs/dcs, quad dcs/dhcs, beam turrets, maybe cannon arrays, tailgun dcs. Wide angle torpedoes. More type flavours, the better.
2: As long as Dilithium is involved, eliminate the randomness.
3: If you eliminate randomness, make Doffs give other bonuses. Like less materials used, faster completion times.
4: Catalysts could still have uses. Like perhaps a chance to craft a second item, increase xp gain, refund materials, etc. Creativity is the only boundary here.
5: The higher levels are way to grindy. Somehow please try to make this more akin to the reputation systems.
Maybe a long, expensive project that gives a lot of xp?
Something that would allow us to max crafting in around 2 months of work.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
So Cryptic, let me get this straight...see if I understand this correctly...
1) once this officially releases, my max level crafting is getting reset and I have to start from scratch.
royal TRIBBLE up #1...why not just reset our character levels and progression while your at it? make us all start over from the beginning of the game at level 1 in our Mirandas.
CaptainGeko stated that because of the difference in the coding, they couldn't transfer what we've already done into the new system. That's why we get reset.
2) your use of the word "regularly" when we are crafting, means we are spending obscene amounts of dilithium for a randomized quality of item (which mind you costs us players either, insane amounts of time most of don't have, or REAL MONEY)
royal TRIBBLE up #2....any % chance under 100% is unacceptable. I am not using gathered materials and dilithium...which you obviously are pushing us to spend the real money currency to obtain...on an item of random quality.
The dilithium numbers right now are mainly arbitrary in order for them to test the system. There's still time to tweak it.
3) you've now turned the crafting process from something that takes seconds, into something that takes hours...AND requires duty officers (which mind you also requires spending of real cash to purchase more of)
royal TRIBBLE up #3 This isn't even worth commenting on. I wouldn't mind it so much if there was a way to reliably obtain those said duty officers without spending money.
so far, the only duty officers you need to use are ones that are not consumed. They don't have any that are consumed for crafting, yet.
4) According to people posting here, the conversion amount from old materials to new materials is so bad, it might as well not even exist, meaning...to re iterate bullet 1... I am starting from scratch...meaning there is zero"reward" as you put it for those of us who have spent a lot of time and money into the old crafting system.
royal TRIBBLE up #4, am I supposed to be pleased at the middle finger you just gave all of us players who put time and money into the old crafting system?[\quote]
It's not the conversion amount that's the problem, it's the conversion process that's bad. You have to click one at a time to convert and for someone whom has a stockpile of old data samples, it's tedious.
The only problem with the conversion is when you get to the rare traces. They don't easily convert to the new rare materials.
I think I've made my point with just these 4 points. Cryptic, until you design this new crafting system into something that's actually a player friendly, enjoyable, and USABLE alternate means of obtaining high quality end game gear...you know for those us who aren't swimming in our excess time, not to mention CASH instead of the most obviously greedy money sink I have ever seen in my life...I'm not spending so much as another cent on this game.
Mind you, bear one more thing in mind before you just assume I'm already not forking up money and take a look under my name Cryptic to see what kind of subscription my account is.
Once more, I'll point out that the system is still in an early WIP phase. They have about a month to hash out the details.
I have been to tribble to test the new crafting system and I seriously MEGA-LOATHE a few things about it. (Hate as a word has very little meaning anymore in regards to talking about this game.)
1. Dilithium/Random garbage - I am becoming seriously worried about the people at Cryptic I think they have a gambling problem they are projecting onto us. I really suggest Gambler's Anonymous.
2. Interface is clunky and gives less information it is not intuitive or helpful it is more of a hindrance.
3. The grind is beyond miserable the reward points need to be within reason. This here is nearly reason enough to ignore the new system.
4. Given the state of the duty officer system with the new interface I am concerned this will break something that isn't broken.
When the volunteer community moderator is able to test and have doubts about the system then that should speak volumes about how questionable this new system is., I followed his advice and tried it myself.
Random chance or dilithium PICK ONE.
Given what has been stated in interviews our feedback will likely be ignored.
CaptainGeko stated that because of the difference in the coding, they couldn't transfer what we've already done into the new system. That's why we get reset.
Then make a system that is coded TO accept transfers. It's not that hard in the grand scheme of things, when you still have the old code. It's not that they can't. They decided to go a totally different direction and attach crafting to a different system (with a different code) instead of tying the new crafting system to the old crafting system and simply updating it. Sure we may not have gotten DOffs out of it (darn my luck) but nothing else they're doing required them to tie it into the DOff system.
Ah so you're tying the Crafting into the Doff system. Which means our current skills will have no bearing at all. This is NOT good news!
And what you're replacing it with is another attempt to Force us to buy High Quality Doffs... Really very bad! Wow! I can barely keep up with the Doffs system as it stands. Now It may permanently put me off even playing STO.
But my ONE Question is: Will we eventually be able to create top level gear? And make it reliably... It doesn't matter if I can only make a Mk XII purple Beam Array 1 time in ~10 attempts. NO ONE will use a system like that!
Doing this to the crafting system makes no sense to me. Sure the Lock Box game is like playing roulette. And most of the time it frustrating. Only giving you items that are fit for dumping off on the Exchange. Doing this to crafting just makes you folks seem like a bunch of trolls.
However, Since you are going to do this... Please make the conversion systems something other than tedious! What I'm talking about it the exchange system for old samples. From what I hear we will forced to convert them "one by one"... Do you have any Idea how many I have? If you force me to do it one at a time I'll never do it! It would simply take far too long.
The other thing I'm concerned about is what happens to the old Schematics? I've saved up a number of the ones that I use most frequently so I can make items for lower level Fleet members. What happens to them?
Also I have this more general question about the "Update"... If you want us to develop our Doff pool for crafting then why should I keep common Doffs around. And will the Fleet Development systems change? Right Now I get by with Uncommon Doffs for the most part. I have a Very Rare ones for Space and Ground duties. But the whole system needs to change if they are also going to be used for crafting. Something tells me that you haven't really thought this through very well.
I agree that most of the standard Mk XI and Mk XII weapons look too big. Elite fleet phasers are appropriately sized, but it would be nice to be able to reskin some of the standard weapons (or the MACO Phaser Battle Rifle, for that matter) to something less bulky. I wouldn't get my hopes up that such a feature will come with Season 9.5 though.
The geometry of ground weapons is inextricably tied to the FX art of firing them. It would take a massive amount of FX and Character Art time to split these out, but customized weapons would be awesome. Maybe someday, but not soon.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
The geometry of ground weapons is inextricably tied to the FX art of firing them. It would take a massive amount of FX and Character Art time to split these out, but customized weapons would be awesome. Maybe someday, but not soon.
Encouraging to hear! That would be incredibly cool.
With the revamp of the DOFFing/crafting interface is it possible to add a dilithium button to complete the DOFF assignments early similar to the crafting button? (My apologies for posting this in two places but saw the feedback thread)
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I still think they should give the characters with top end crafting now, something. it's a bit silly that we hafta restart entirely from scratch yet again.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
After leveling science to level 20... It seems there is a much larger demand for magnesite across the board because i'ts the base material used in crafting the majority of the components necessary to make other goods and it usually needs 3 magnesite per component while most others materials are only 2. This either needs to be decreased in quantity of magnesite needed or the drop rates increased. I was constantly running out of magnesite before anything else and needing to transfer more toons to tribble with resources.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I still think they should give the characters with top end crafting now, something. it's a bit silly that we hafta restart entirely from scratch yet again.
How do they tell the difference between the folks that did it in 15 minutes and the folks that may have spent quite a bit of time on it way back in the day?
After leveling science to level 20... It seems there is a much larger demand for magnesite across the board because i'ts the base material used in crafting the majority of the components necessary to make other goods and it usually needs 3 magnesite per component while most others materials are only 2. This either needs to be decreased in quantity of magnesite needed or the drop rates increased. I was constantly running out of magnesite before anything else and needing to transfer more toons to tribble with resources.
Thanks, excellent feedback - I'll double check the resource distributions.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
The geometry of ground weapons is inextricably tied to the FX art of firing them. It would take a massive amount of FX and Character Art time to split these out, but customized weapons would be awesome. Maybe someday, but not soon.
Really, all I want is a Mk XII phaser rifle that looks like a Mk I phaser rifle. No ugly glowy bits (the elite fleet weapons make a good substitute).
It's interesting that the size of the weapons is tied to the FX firing.
Did you guys plan on every officer being six and a half feet tall, which is where about they look normal sized? My character is 5'6", my MACO Battle Rifle is huge.
I took all the old crafting system Anomaly Traces and converted them on Tribble to see how much new Rare (blue) Material I received in the conversion (see attached matrix).
Of course, the conversion did net a large quantity of common and uncommon material, but the rare material is essential for the mid to high level component and gear. The amount of rare material obtained from existing anomaly traces will determine how much a player will have to grind later in the new crafting progression.
I had 427 anomaly traces and obtained 112 rare materials after conversion or 26% when comparing quantities based on only old rare types and new rare types (the uncommon and common types obtained are not considered for this experiment).
Addendum: I noticed that the anomalies identified as uncommon level for new material will always give a good quantity of uncommon (and only uncommon material); so why are trace conversions using this "random reward" system for the material given in return? Use a straightforward rare for rare even if it is a one for one and each type of trace matches with a type of new rare material... just don't rip us off on all the grinding we did for these traces and give us a fraction of the rare material that should be received in the conversion.
That isn't logical, why would we at least get rare for rare, if this is supposed to be a one to one conversion. Anything less is a blatant rip off.
I don't want to go too off topic in this thread, but the elite fleet phasers are absolutely gorgeous if you haven't seen them. The stun pistol is by-far the best weapon model in the game. The rifles are properly scaled and beautiful looking. There is currently no combination better than seeing a Starfleet officer wearing the Odyssey uniform and using one of these phasers in a ground mission. They're the 2410 phasers, in my eyes.
(The KDF elite disruptor compression pistol was a massive disappointment by comparison -- I'd rather have one of the standard models.)
Agreed. Does anyone know which phaser it is at the store that has that sawed off rifle look? It's like the second or third from the left when you're at the fleet vendor.
The best looking Klingon weapon in the game is the Honor Guard Pulsewave with the Bat'Leth style bayonet. That looks excellent.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Hey Jeff I can't seem to remove anomalies from a fleet bank on tribble to test the R&D system, every time I try to remove them from the Fleet Bank I get server not responding causing me to get disconnected...
Tested with the system a bit and have to say incredibly disappointed.
1. As a previous crafter having attained max rank etc I find myself feeling a lil jipped that we don't automatically get the choice to assign bonus exp levels as a "thanks for using the old season, here's a head start for the new one "sort of scheme.
2. Why was it necessary to rework every crafting material? Phasing out currency to make currency is kind of stupid. I do hope you will have some form of collection tab where you can just deposit all your R&D materials so it doesn't fill our banks again please. Also with conversion PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a convert all or 10/50/100/250 options because atm I have about 3k materials to convert.
3. NO DILITHIUM COSTS! jeezus stop leeching the **** out of the little dilithium we already got, don't you guys realise with the excessive dill costs in rep system stores and projects etc. we are already stretched.
4. Can we get a clearer technology tree/ or map. Showing what leads to what and what we can research to achieve what outcome.
5. Queue system so we can assign multiple projects so we don't have to be online to keep assigning new projects.
4. Can we get a clearer technology tree/ or map. Showing what leads to what and what we can research to achieve what outcome.
I hadn't even thought of that. That's brilliant a tech tree would definitely help, along with a tutorial.
5. Queue system so we can assign multiple projects so we don't have to be online to keep assigning new projects.
That makes a lot of sense, so we can continue to construct components up to the actual item.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
The update fixed the AEGIS at tier 0 and placed it at tier 15. So all us veteran crafters that had to ability to make the AEGIS set will have to do the grind again or just say farewell to your money making item from crafting.
The way this system looks and feels right now just makes me want to ignore crafting in this game. The low payoff in progression, heavy need for hard to obtain VR material for worthwhile gear, and the outrageous dil cost on the top-end stuff just says, "Grind forever or pay to play." The EP can say that the costs are lower with the new system, but I have some doubts about any intention to make a crafting system that can be done without any real cash input. Well, we'll have to wait and see what the final version looks like... it can't be worse than what's on Tribble.
Okay then, I wanted to do another conversion run with the updated conversion (100-slider) to take a look at what I was getting in exchange for my old samples/particles. Didn't pay close attention the first time I did it...
Radiation Sample (T1 Energy)
1159 Common converted to:
Duranium - 570
Hydrazine Gas - 622
Magnesite - 524
Trionium Gas - 602
Mineral Sample (T1 Physical)
647 Common converted to:
Duranium - 282
Hydrazine Gas - 322
Magnesite - 334
Trionium Gas - 356
Alien Artifacts (T1 Technological)
929 Common converted to:
Duranium - 482
Hydrazine Gas - 470
Magnesite - 486
Trionium Gas - 420
Antimatter Sample (T2 Energy)
1744 Common converted to:
Duranium - 838
Hydrazine Gas - 904
Magnesite - 808
Trionium Gas - 938
Biological Sample (T2 Physical)
1500 Common converted to:
Duranium - 790
Hydrazine Gas - 708
Magnesite - 724
Trionium Gas - 778
Unknown Alloy (T2 Technological)
1500 Common converted to:
Duranium - 716
Hydrazine Gas - 746
Magnesite - 776
Trionium Gas - 762
Tetryon Particle (T3 Energy)
1581 Common converted to:
Duranium - 802
Hydrazine Gas - 768
Magnesite - 754
Trionium Gas - 838
Plasma Sample (T3 Physical)
1451 Common converted to:
Duranium - 744
Hydrazine Gas - 654
Magnesite - 754
Trionium Gas - 750
Encoded Data (T3 Technological)
1522 Common converted to:
Duranium - 780
Hydrazine Gas - 762
Magnesite - 754
Trionium Gas - 748
Okay then, I wanted to do another conversion run with the updated conversion (100-slider) to take a look at what I was getting in exchange for my old samples/particles. Didn't pay close attention the first time I did it...
Alright the fact that the particle traces are converting to Common and Uncommon materials in the new system is very disconcerting. Rare for rare. Please re-adjust the tables. This completely renders any previous time and effort we have put into the game a lot less worthy. We have already had this happen to us with Marks...etc... Cryptic please learn from your past mistakes and do not repeat them. It is bad enough you added the Fleet project which awards people half of the fleet credits for the same amount of marks. I will say that the downfall of many MMOs is inconsistency in the rules. Be consistent.
Alright the fact that the particle traces are converting to Common and Uncommon materials in the new system is very disconcerting. Rare for rare. Please re-adjust the tables. This completely renders any previous time and effort we have put into the game a lot less worthy. We have already had this happen to us with Marks...etc... Cryptic please learn from your past mistakes and do not repeat them. It is bad enough you added the Fleet project which awards people half of the fleet credits for the same amount of marks. I will say that the downfall of many MMOs is inconsistency in the rules. Be consistent.
School Specialist Duty Officers are now available through various means in-game.
These officers are required in order to craft some of the highest-skill items in each R&D School.
These officers have been added to all C-Store Duty Officer Cadre Packs.
Also applies to existing ones already purchased.
They can also be obtained rarely as a reward for running the "Request R&D Assistance" Duty Officer Assignment, newly available at your Academy or Starbase Recruiter.
This assignment rewards Materials and Components in addition to a small chance at School Specialists and Catalysts.
So here we have a nice bottleneck. In order to make any end-game gear you need "Specialist" DOffs. OK. But... "various means of obtaining" right now seems to mean nothing but
Lock-box-like mass-opening of C-Store-DOff-Packs (until you have the one of the school you need, just 1 out of 7) OR
running who knows how many R&D assistance assignments until you get the specialist you require (could take months?), OR
buyng it for astronomic amounts of ECs on the exchange. Good job Cryptic
Will there be any way of controlling WHICH specialist (which school) we might get from the assistance assignment??? What's the CD on the assignment? What kinda drop chance for any given specialist are we talking about?
This sounds a lot like a (not really) hidden "Buy DOff packs!" order if you want to craft hi-end items within your life-time.
My suggestion:
Make specialist DOffs of each quality and school available in the fleet starbases for dilithium/fleet credits and/or give us a better way of controlling which school a specialist is of that drops from the R&D assistance assignment.
okay, i loved to craft in other games, i did some in STO to get money and when having too much samples and still was at max level within half a day.. but atleast i KNEW what i was crafting. i cliked and the item i wanted came out...
now .. i have to agree is a frakking slot machine..
why is it called crafting if the chance to get the item you want is bound to have the amount of dill and the rights doffs..... thats not crafting. cryptic you again missed the whole point. and again its all to get new players.
also why isnt the research skill from now not converted? why is it harder now t get the right stuff for crafting than it was befrore with the samples.. (which you claimed made it harder becasue too many)... no it was easier. a lot easier before..
why cant you take a look at other games and the crafting there.. NOOO you have to make your own thing again. (which in all honesty never really works out.. get implemented and stays in beta after wards..... eg. loadouts- still not working)
stop trying to re-invent the wheel, specially when you try putting that re-invented wheel on a horse.....
Comments
It's too grindy!
Here's why I say this, and not that I have a problem with the grind. (although I kinda do, but that's a whole 'nother rant)
So far I can only craft Mark II items. Fine (except, I won't be using them any time soon as a VA50). Getting from Level 0 to Level 1 takes 30 xp. Easily done crafting components. I forgot to write down the difference from Level 1 to 2, but I'm currently working on Level 3 which takes 10,000 experience.
Here's my problem with that. Each Mark II item gives me 50 experience. So, by my back of the envelope math, that means I have to craft 200 items to level up. In the engineering category, that there's five options. That means I've crafted 40 EACH if I decide to diversify.
1) What am I going to do with 40 warp cores (or impulse engines, etc). I'm sure I could diversify it farther (plasma-infused, etc). But seriously, what? I only need one. My fleeties only need one (each). That's an obscene number of items.
2) That's going to flood the market, particularly low level items as people level up crafting. Or, it's going to inflate the energy credit market even more as people sell them off.
3) That's just level 2 to level 3. I can't even make higher Mark things (that I actually care about) until I get my crafting to level 5. So, I'll have a ton of consoles that I don't want/need.
Now, I admit, this crafting system is probably aimed at the new player who doesn't need to craft higher level stuff, and if you craft along the way it may work out better. However, given my experience with the DOff system, I doubt it.
Proposed solutions:
Lower the bar. That's right make it easier to increase levels. Getting from 0-5 just to make Mark IV (and possibly higher) items is a long slog.
Put consumables back in the crafting system. Right now my only options for gaining xp are components, which I only need so many of, or consoles I don't need. Give me something I can use to encourage me to craft until I can build something I actually want/need.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Want cheap commodities? Yeah you do. Commodity Cheat Sheet (includes food and data samples)
Want to make the game better? Might I suggest this form
And what you're replacing it with is another attempt to Force us to buy High Quality Doffs... Really very bad! Wow! I can barely keep up with the Doffs system as it stands. Now It may permanently put me off even playing STO.
But my ONE Question is: Will we eventually be able to create top level gear? And make it reliably... It doesn't matter if I can only make a Mk XII purple Beam Array 1 time in ~10 attempts. NO ONE will use a system like that!
Doing this to the crafting system makes no sense to me. Sure the Lock Box game is like playing roulette. And most of the time it frustrating. Only giving you items that are fit for dumping off on the Exchange. Doing this to crafting just makes you folks seem like a bunch of trolls.
However, Since you are going to do this... Please make the conversion systems something other than tedious! What I'm talking about it the exchange system for old samples. From what I hear we will forced to convert them "one by one"... Do you have any Idea how many I have? If you force me to do it one at a time I'll never do it! It would simply take far too long.
The other thing I'm concerned about is what happens to the old Schematics? I've saved up a number of the ones that I use most frequently so I can make items for lower level Fleet members. What happens to them?
Also I have this more general question about the "Update"... If you want us to develop our Doff pool for crafting then why should I keep common Doffs around. And will the Fleet Development systems change? Right Now I get by with Uncommon Doffs for the most part. I have a Very Rare ones for Space and Ground duties. But the whole system needs to change if they are also going to be used for crafting. Something tells me that you haven't really thought this through very well.
I don't want to go too off topic in this thread, but the elite fleet phasers are absolutely gorgeous if you haven't seen them. The stun pistol is by-far the best weapon model in the game. The rifles are properly scaled and beautiful looking. There is currently no combination better than seeing a Starfleet officer wearing the Odyssey uniform and using one of these phasers in a ground mission. They're the 2410 phasers, in my eyes.
(The KDF elite disruptor compression pistol was a massive disappointment by comparison -- I'd rather have one of the standard models.)
I agree that most of the standard Mk XI and Mk XII weapons look too big. Elite fleet phasers are appropriately sized, but it would be nice to be able to reskin some of the standard weapons (or the MACO Phaser Battle Rifle, for that matter) to something less bulky. I wouldn't get my hopes up that such a feature will come with Season 9.5 though.
1: Add more goodies. Non-unique ARC dhcs/dcs, quad dcs/dhcs, beam turrets, maybe cannon arrays, tailgun dcs. Wide angle torpedoes. More type flavours, the better.
2: As long as Dilithium is involved, eliminate the randomness.
3: If you eliminate randomness, make Doffs give other bonuses. Like less materials used, faster completion times.
4: Catalysts could still have uses. Like perhaps a chance to craft a second item, increase xp gain, refund materials, etc. Creativity is the only boundary here.
5: The higher levels are way to grindy. Somehow please try to make this more akin to the reputation systems.
Maybe a long, expensive project that gives a lot of xp?
Something that would allow us to max crafting in around 2 months of work.
CaptainGeko stated that because of the difference in the coding, they couldn't transfer what we've already done into the new system. That's why we get reset.
The dilithium numbers right now are mainly arbitrary in order for them to test the system. There's still time to tweak it.
so far, the only duty officers you need to use are ones that are not consumed. They don't have any that are consumed for crafting, yet.
1. Dilithium/Random garbage - I am becoming seriously worried about the people at Cryptic I think they have a gambling problem they are projecting onto us. I really suggest Gambler's Anonymous.
2. Interface is clunky and gives less information it is not intuitive or helpful it is more of a hindrance.
3. The grind is beyond miserable the reward points need to be within reason. This here is nearly reason enough to ignore the new system.
4. Given the state of the duty officer system with the new interface I am concerned this will break something that isn't broken.
When the volunteer community moderator is able to test and have doubts about the system then that should speak volumes about how questionable this new system is., I followed his advice and tried it myself.
Random chance or dilithium PICK ONE.
Given what has been stated in interviews our feedback will likely be ignored.
Then make a system that is coded TO accept transfers. It's not that hard in the grand scheme of things, when you still have the old code. It's not that they can't. They decided to go a totally different direction and attach crafting to a different system (with a different code) instead of tying the new crafting system to the old crafting system and simply updating it. Sure we may not have gotten DOffs out of it (darn my luck) but nothing else they're doing required them to tie it into the DOff system.
here is the answer for the questions http://priorityonepodcast.com/po179/
The geometry of ground weapons is inextricably tied to the FX art of firing them. It would take a massive amount of FX and Character Art time to split these out, but customized weapons would be awesome. Maybe someday, but not soon.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Encouraging to hear! That would be incredibly cool.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
How do they tell the difference between the folks that did it in 15 minutes and the folks that may have spent quite a bit of time on it way back in the day?
Thanks, excellent feedback - I'll double check the resource distributions.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Really, all I want is a Mk XII phaser rifle that looks like a Mk I phaser rifle. No ugly glowy bits (the elite fleet weapons make a good substitute).
Did you guys plan on every officer being six and a half feet tall, which is where about they look normal sized? My character is 5'6", my MACO Battle Rifle is huge. It's alright, it's good that you're passionate about crafting, you bring expertise and experience. I tend to not post when upset, for that reason. That isn't logical, why would we at least get rare for rare, if this is supposed to be a one to one conversion. Anything less is a blatant rip off.
Agreed. Does anyone know which phaser it is at the store that has that sawed off rifle look? It's like the second or third from the left when you're at the fleet vendor.
The best looking Klingon weapon in the game is the Honor Guard Pulsewave with the Bat'Leth style bayonet. That looks excellent.
more info here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1153251
1. As a previous crafter having attained max rank etc I find myself feeling a lil jipped that we don't automatically get the choice to assign bonus exp levels as a "thanks for using the old season, here's a head start for the new one "sort of scheme.
2. Why was it necessary to rework every crafting material? Phasing out currency to make currency is kind of stupid. I do hope you will have some form of collection tab where you can just deposit all your R&D materials so it doesn't fill our banks again please. Also with conversion PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a convert all or 10/50/100/250 options because atm I have about 3k materials to convert.
3. NO DILITHIUM COSTS! jeezus stop leeching the **** out of the little dilithium we already got, don't you guys realise with the excessive dill costs in rep system stores and projects etc. we are already stretched.
4. Can we get a clearer technology tree/ or map. Showing what leads to what and what we can research to achieve what outcome.
5. Queue system so we can assign multiple projects so we don't have to be online to keep assigning new projects.
That makes a lot of sense, so we can continue to construct components up to the actual item.
The way this system looks and feels right now just makes me want to ignore crafting in this game. The low payoff in progression, heavy need for hard to obtain VR material for worthwhile gear, and the outrageous dil cost on the top-end stuff just says, "Grind forever or pay to play." The EP can say that the costs are lower with the new system, but I have some doubts about any intention to make a crafting system that can be done without any real cash input. Well, we'll have to wait and see what the final version looks like... it can't be worse than what's on Tribble.
Radiation Sample (T1 Energy)
1159 Common converted to:
Duranium - 570
Hydrazine Gas - 622
Magnesite - 524
Trionium Gas - 602
Mineral Sample (T1 Physical)
647 Common converted to:
Duranium - 282
Hydrazine Gas - 322
Magnesite - 334
Trionium Gas - 356
Alien Artifacts (T1 Technological)
929 Common converted to:
Duranium - 482
Hydrazine Gas - 470
Magnesite - 486
Trionium Gas - 420
Antimatter Sample (T2 Energy)
1744 Common converted to:
Duranium - 838
Hydrazine Gas - 904
Magnesite - 808
Trionium Gas - 938
Biological Sample (T2 Physical)
1500 Common converted to:
Duranium - 790
Hydrazine Gas - 708
Magnesite - 724
Trionium Gas - 778
Unknown Alloy (T2 Technological)
1500 Common converted to:
Duranium - 716
Hydrazine Gas - 746
Magnesite - 776
Trionium Gas - 762
Tetryon Particle (T3 Energy)
1581 Common converted to:
Duranium - 802
Hydrazine Gas - 768
Magnesite - 754
Trionium Gas - 838
Plasma Sample (T3 Physical)
1451 Common converted to:
Duranium - 744
Hydrazine Gas - 654
Magnesite - 754
Trionium Gas - 750
Encoded Data (T3 Technological)
1522 Common converted to:
Duranium - 780
Hydrazine Gas - 762
Magnesite - 754
Trionium Gas - 748
Methogenic Particle (T4 Energy)
2073 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 982
Thoron Particle - 1032
Tritanium - 1104
Verteron Particle - 1028
DNA Sequence (T4 Physical)
1346 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 684
Thoron Particle - 682
Tritanium - 716
Verteron Particle - 610
Genetic Sequencer (T4 Technological)
1704 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 884
Thoron Particle - 890
Tritanium - 836
Verteron Particle - 798
Tachyon Wave Signature (T5 Energy)
1738 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 904
Thoron Particle - 900
Tritanium - 846
Verteron Particle - 826
Exobiological Data (T5 Physical)
1706 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 882
Thoron Particle - 828
Tritanium - 820
Verteron Particle - 882
Photonic Technology (T5 Technological)
1932 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 958
Thoron Particle - 1030
Tritanium - 962
Verteron Particle - 914
Chronometric Wave Signature (T6 Energy)
1403 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 670
Thoron Particle - 658
Tritanium - 726
Verteron Particle - 752
Unidentified Substance (T6 Physical)
1429 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 752
Thoron Particle - 706
Tritanium - 652
Verteron Particle - 748
Technical Schematic (T6 Technological)
1431 Uncommon converted to:
Hexaflourine Gas - 732
Thoron Particle - 658
Tritanium - 696
Verteron Particle - 776
Antithoron Particle Trace
146 Random converted to:
Duranium - 44
Hydrazine Gas - 48
Magnesite - 64
Trionium Gas - 32
Hexaflourine Gas - 57
Thoron Particle - 30
Tritanium - 45
Verteron Particle - 45
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 5
Rubidium - 9
Tetrazine Gas - 12
Z-Particle - 14
Anyon Particle Trace
169 Random converted to:
Duranium - 44
Hydrazine Gas - 40
Magnesite - 16
Trionium Gas - 16
Hexaflourine Gas - 75
Thoron Particle - 69
Tritanium - 93
Verteron Particle - 48
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 16
Rubidium - 11
Tetrazine Gas - 11
Z-Particle - 7
Beta-Tachyon Particle Trace
147 Random converted to:
Duranium - 44
Hydrazine Gas - 44
Magnesite - 40
Trionium Gas - 16
Hexaflourine Gas - 60
Thoron Particle - 57
Tritanium - 54
Verteron Particle - 66
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 8
Rubidium - 7
Tetrazine Gas - 9
Z-Particle - 8
Chronometric Particle Trace
169 Random converted to:
Duranium - 52
Hydrazine Gas - 40
Magnesite - 56
Trionium Gas - 20
Hexaflourine Gas - 84
Thoron Particle - 66
Tritanium - 63
Verteron Particle - 48
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 12
Rubidium - 10
Tetrazine Gas - 10
Z-Particle - 8
Dekyon Particle Trace
189 Random converted to:
Duranium - 40
Hydrazine Gas - 44
Magnesite - 52
Trionium Gas - 32
Hexaflourine Gas - 75
Thoron Particle - 39
Tritanium - 93
Verteron Particle - 51
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 15
Rubidium - 21
Tetrazine Gas - 15
Z-Particle - 10
Duderon Particle Trace
164 Random converted to:
Duranium - 52
Hydrazine Gas - 56
Magnesite - 68
Trionium Gas - 36
Hexaflourine Gas - 69
Thoron Particle - 54
Tritanium - 57
Verteron Particle - 57
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 11
Rubidium - 6
Tetrazine Gas - 7
Z-Particle - 8
Methogenic Particle Trace
188 Random converted to:
Duranium - 24
Hydrazine Gas - 48
Magnesite - 52
Trionium Gas - 28
Hexaflourine Gas - 81
Thoron Particle - 45
Tritanium - 99
Verteron Particle - 51
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 11
Rubidium - 19
Tetrazine Gas - 18
Z-Particle - 10
Metreon Particle Trace
162 Random converted to:
Duranium - 40
Hydrazine Gas - 56
Magnesite - 36
Trionium Gas - 44
Hexaflourine Gas - 60
Thoron Particle - 57
Tritanium - 39
Verteron Particle - 54
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 13
Rubidium - 11
Tetrazine Gas - 11
Z-Particle - 13
Trianium Particle Trace
158 Random converted to:
Duranium - 56
Hydrazine Gas - 48
Magnesite - 40
Trionium Gas - 40
Hexaflourine Gas - 51
Thoron Particle - 60
Tritanium - 60
Verteron Particle - 51
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 10
Rubidium - 8
Tetrazine Gas - 9
Z-Particle - 11
Vertion Particle Trace
171 Random converted to:
Duranium - 52
Hydrazine Gas - 56
Magnesite - 24
Trionium Gas - 16
Hexaflourine Gas - 81
Thoron Particle - 72
Tritanium - 78
Verteron Particle - 54
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 11
Rubidium - 9
Tetrazine Gas - 10
Z-Particle - 9
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
TLDR Can Start Here
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
So we had a total of 12033 Common old mats that converted to...
Duranium - 6004
Hydrazine Gas - 5956
Magnesite - 5914
Trionium Gas - 6192
...for a total of 24066 Common new mats.
And we had a total of 14762 Uncommon old mats that converted to...
Hexaflourine Gas - 7458
Thoron Particle - 7384
Tritanium - 7358
Verteron Particle - 7334
...for a total of 29534 Uncommon new mats.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Then there were the Particle Traces...meh.
Where we had 1663 Random converted to...
Duranium - 448
Hydrazine Gas - 480
Magnesite - 448
Trionium Gas - 280
Hexaflourine Gas - 693
Thoron Particle - 549
Tritanium - 681
Verteron Particle - 525
Beta-Tachyon Particle - 112
Rubidium - 111
Tetrazine Gas - 112
Z-Particle - 98
...for a total of:
Common - 1656
Uncommon - 2448
Rare - 433
Total - 4537
36.5% Common, 54% Uncommon, 9.5% Rare
- - - - - - - - - -
Quickie TLDR
- - - - - - - - - -
12033 T1-T3 Samples, 14762 T4-T6 Samples, and 1663 Particles became...
Common - 25722
Uncommon - 31982
Rare - 433
Alright the fact that the particle traces are converting to Common and Uncommon materials in the new system is very disconcerting. Rare for rare. Please re-adjust the tables. This completely renders any previous time and effort we have put into the game a lot less worthy. We have already had this happen to us with Marks...etc... Cryptic please learn from your past mistakes and do not repeat them. It is bad enough you added the Fleet project which awards people half of the fleet credits for the same amount of marks. I will say that the downfall of many MMOs is inconsistency in the rules. Be consistent.
I second this
I say make it like TR-124? Or something other than TR-116.
So here we have a nice bottleneck. In order to make any end-game gear you need "Specialist" DOffs. OK. But... "various means of obtaining" right now seems to mean nothing but
Will there be any way of controlling WHICH specialist (which school) we might get from the assistance assignment??? What's the CD on the assignment? What kinda drop chance for any given specialist are we talking about?
This sounds a lot like a (not really) hidden "Buy DOff packs!" order if you want to craft hi-end items within your life-time.
My suggestion:
Make specialist DOffs of each quality and school available in the fleet starbases for dilithium/fleet credits and/or give us a better way of controlling which school a specialist is of that drops from the R&D assistance assignment.
STOWiki admin.
now .. i have to agree is a frakking slot machine..
why is it called crafting if the chance to get the item you want is bound to have the amount of dill and the rights doffs..... thats not crafting. cryptic you again missed the whole point. and again its all to get new players.
also why isnt the research skill from now not converted? why is it harder now t get the right stuff for crafting than it was befrore with the samples.. (which you claimed made it harder becasue too many)... no it was easier. a lot easier before..
why cant you take a look at other games and the crafting there.. NOOO you have to make your own thing again. (which in all honesty never really works out.. get implemented and stays in beta after wards..... eg. loadouts- still not working)
stop trying to re-invent the wheel, specially when you try putting that re-invented wheel on a horse.....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]