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Official New Crafting System "Research and Development" Feedback Thread

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  • chrisofborgchrisofborg Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The material conversion needs sliders to convert more than one item at a time.
    Where are the other parts of the Aegis set? I only see the Shield.
    Is there any chance for people that maxed out the crafting score in the old system be given a head start in the new system? This new system is more like the Commendation system in that it'll take months (years?) to eventually max out all of the crafting schools. I've been crafting the Aegis Shield over and over, but even at 36000 points at a time and forcing completion with dilithium, the requirements for level 20 in the Shield school are over the top... like millions upon millions of points. Are there going to be projects for the other schools that will reward large amounts of points?
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    5 minutes to make a Mk 2 armor? POS Dil grab, Cryptic. I'm done testing this pile of TRIBBLE. TRIBBLE up the crafting system all you want. I'll just ignore it. I've not used crafting since season 3, so I'm sure I'll get along w/o it. I'll just buy TRIBBLE off the exchange from the masochists that use the crafting system and make a fortune selling my converted mats to them. :mad:
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • saedeithsaedeith Member Posts: 628 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Since you are removing the clusters, why not add mats to the drop table from space and ground combat to go along with the nodes?

    Without the clusters, there is no efficient way to gather these materials on nodes alone.
  • qqqqiiqqqqii Member Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    So far, the only real pro I see in the changes is not having to go to Memory Alpha or Qo'nos.

    Bravo on making a worthless system even worse.
    dgbgfnkqi05e.png
  • jstewart55jstewart55 Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I have to chime in on what others have also said (who knows? Maybe the more we say it, the better the chance someone'll notice): if we're having to spend dilithium on this, it needs to be worth our while to do so, otherwise we'll just stick to rep/fleet equipment. Blind-crafting something that turns out to be useless to us is a bad system.
  • clcopelandclcopeland Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Concerns:
    1. Dil requirement for random mods. No thank you. I will spend dil if I get to choose the mods, then you have me.
    2. Nothing for having topped out the old crafting system. I spent time and effort on that and we go back to the start? No thank you.
    3. Cannot break down uncommon, rare, and very rare items for uncommon/rare/very rare materials.
    4. Duty officers determining the quality of the item. Perhaps a bonus to improve the quality, but not downgrade the item.

    Notes:
    [LIST=2]
    [*]Rep system is cheaper and faster
    [*]EC grinding the purchasing on the exchange is cheaper and faster
    [*]Two out of three item obtainment methods are cheaper, faster, and not random.
    [*]Given the above, what is the point of a new crafting system?
    [/LIST]

    Outcome:
    1. Will not use the crafting system in this current test state.
  • saedeithsaedeith Member Posts: 628 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    clcopeland wrote: »
    Concerns:
    1. Dil requirement for random mods. No thank you. I will spend dil if I get to choose the mods, then you have me.
    2. Nothing for having topped out the old crafting system. I spent time and effort on that and we go back to the start? No thank you.
    3. Cannot break down uncommon, rare, and very rare items for uncommon/rare/very rare materials.
    4. Duty officers determining the quality of the item. Perhaps a bonus to improve the quality, but not downgrade the item.

    Notes:
    [LIST=2]
    [*]Rep system is cheaper and faster
    [*]EC grinding the purchasing on the exchange is cheaper and faster
    [*]Two out of three item obtainment methods are cheaper, faster, and not random.
    [*]Given the above, what is the point of a new crafting system?
    [/LIST]

    Outcome:
    1. Will not use the crafting system in this current test state.


    I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.

    What is the point of this system when you can get guaranteed gear, cheaper and faster through other means.
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    Suggestion: add an extra step and move dill costs to the extra step.

    So like, you're researching the blueprint for a XII phaser dual cannon. You get the resources together, open the crafting interface, and run through it. Rather than immediately crafting a weapon of that type for full costs with totally random mods, you craft a 'prototype', which is a blueprint of that weapon. The suffix slots are chosen randomly, just like the current system, but the dilithium cost is burdened over to the prototype.

    Once you've unlocked a given prototype, you can turn it in via a crafting/rep project to unlock that specific item's crafting mission, which has standard crafting inputs, is repeatable, and *always* produces the same result.

    Alternatively, if you don't like the prototype you've built, or it duplicates one you've already registered, you can feed it into another mission to gain some of the resources back.

    So for example, if you craft a Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons MK XII [ACC]x3 prototype, you can then always choose to craft that specific item with a crafting mission, and the dilithium costs are reduced because you already paid dilithium to building the prototype.

    Then you can monetize the system by letting people by modules in the C-Store that let them choose specific suffixes when crafting a prototype.
  • ehlimehlim Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    wrote:
    Concerns:
    [*]Dil requirement for random mods. No thank you. I will spend dil if I get to choose the mods
    Notes:
    [LIST=2]
    [*]Rep system is cheaper and faster
    [*]EC grinding the purchasing on the exchange is cheaper and faster
    wrote:
    Unless we can guaranty we'll get a purple with a desired set of modifiers there's no point in crafting the high-end gear. I'll just stick with the rep system and fleet gear. The lower level gear isn't worth crafting either because they're too expensive at the level you're at. (And let's be honest, at the lower levels, gear isn't really that important anyway.)
    saedeith wrote: »
    I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.

    What is the point of this system when you can get guaranteed gear, cheaper and faster through other means.

    etc. etc.

    The system doesn't look attractive at all, given the resources/rewards ratio, compared to all the other ways of getting MkXII items in the game. I don't see why I should spend my time and resources on it. After all I've read and seen from the feedback, if you can show me where's the catch I'll consider it, but as it is I don't understand it and I don't like it.

    By the way, this pains me a lot, as I was very excited about the update and just bought a lifetime subscription with the discount, to sort of celebrate it. It's leaving me with a bitter taste.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • aaron734aaron734 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    After visiting Tribble and looking over and using the new R & D this is my official feedback...

    I'll just buy from the vendors and exchange as usual. Thanks but no thanks. It wasn't worth the effort before to use R & D, and it's even worse now. Bury it 6 feet under and move on guys.
  • generalmocogeneralmoco Member Posts: 1,634
    edited June 2014
    BIG NEWS THAT NOT EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT THE R&D SYSTEM YET


    From Al "CaptainGeko" Rivera


    • R&D is still in Alpha
    • DOff UI is not fully done
    • Material is not fully done
    • Modifiers will be launched at X2 or in Crafting 2.0
    • ALL COSTS on tribble are still Alpha, Dilithium costs are not final
    • Ultra Rare Will be Craft-able
    • Gear Only Available on R&D will be available ex "Gold Stuff"

    Basically, the current stuff is on alpha, meaning that everything will change, as of Al Rivera's word, Dilithium Cost is no the right. Everything was set as it is, so the system can run for testing...

    More info here: http://priorityonepodcast.com/po179/
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    BIG NEWS THAT NOT EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT THE R&D SYSTEM


    From Al "CaptainGeko" Rivera


    • R&D is still in Alpha
    • DOff UI is not fully done
    • Material is not fully done
    • Modifiers will be launched at X2 or in Crafting 2.0
    • ALL COSTS on tribble are still Alpha, Dilithium costs are not final
    • Ultra Rare Will be Craft-able
    • Gear Only Available on R&D will be available ex "Gold Stuff"


    Basically, the current stuff is on alpha, meaning that everything will change, as of Al Rivera's word, Dilithium Cost is no the right. Everything was set as it is, so the system can run for testing...

    More info here: http://priorityonepodcast.com/po179/
    I fully understand all of that, I just don't understand the reasoning behind launching it willfully incomplete, when they could just hold off the system until X2. Nobody would complain about them taking the time to do it all and do it right the first time at least as much as possible. :confused:
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    After wasting an hour of my day listening to something I could have probably read in 15 minutes - I have to agree with the consensus that a lot of our current gripes are "planned" to be addressed in the near-ish future.

    Random mods? New project will be made that lets us swap mod X to mod Y. 4 projects will let us create and customize a Mk XII whatever...

    Costs? This is early beta with nothing really set in stone, however, he's going off his beliefs as to the current rate(s) being "competitive". Who knows, once the change-a-mod system hits, he could decide that a crafted part should be 20k - split 5k each over the initial part and each tweak-a-mod...

    "Ultraviolet" (fleet) and gold quality on a high-level crit.

    Well, I'll take the system in stride, pop a level or 3 here and there as I collect random materials, maybe twink a couple of KDFs I have in the levelling chain still, and see what comes out as the later parts of the system release.

    Though, a large part of the whinefest on this forum right now would probably never have happened with:

    1. Clear statement that this is an early Alpha release. We're testing, we kinda need to know what level of item we're testing, typically, Tribble's been stuff that's seen a few rounds of "internal QA" and usually in a fairly finished state...

    2. Follow up Blog or Dev Post in this forum stating more-or-less everything covered in the podcast. Should not need to listen to random podcasts that I don't ususally follow because I tend to prefer not to sit around for an hour or 2, uninterrupted, listening and re-listening to what's being said because of the audio format.


    Oh, having a convenient post lets people link off to the latest word, as I don't usually listen to podcasts, I had no clue that the "promised reward" for having maxed the current R&D system is nothing... How quaint... ;)
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • captainedwards09captainedwards09 Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I am sure this has already been asked but what about kits and modules? I did not see them on Tribble in the new crafting system at all
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    dareau wrote: »
    After wasting an hour of my day listening to something I could have probably read in 15 minutes - I have to agree with the consensus that a lot of our current gripes are "planned" to be addressed in the near-ish future.

    Random mods? New project will be made that lets us swap mod X to mod Y. 4 projects will let us create and customize a Mk XII whatever...

    Costs? This is early beta with nothing really set in stone, however, he's going off his beliefs as to the current rate(s) being "competitive". Who knows, once the change-a-mod system hits, he could decide that a crafted part should be 20k - split 5k each over the initial part and each tweak-a-mod...

    "Ultraviolet" (fleet) and gold quality on a high-level crit.

    Well, I'll take the system in stride, pop a level or 3 here and there as I collect random materials, maybe twink a couple of KDFs I have in the levelling chain still, and see what comes out as the later parts of the system release.

    Though, a large part of the whinefest on this forum right now would probably never have happened with:

    1. Clear statement that this is an early Alpha release. We're testing, we kinda need to know what level of item we're testing, typically, Tribble's been stuff that's seen a few rounds of "internal QA" and usually in a fairly finished state...

    2. Follow up Blog or Dev Post in this forum stating more-or-less everything covered in the podcast. Should not need to listen to random podcasts that I don't ususally follow because I tend to prefer not to sit around for an hour or 2, uninterrupted, listening and re-listening to what's being said because of the audio format.


    Oh, having a convenient post lets people link off to the latest word, as I don't usually listen to podcasts, I had no clue that the "promised reward" for having maxed the current R&D system is nothing... How quaint... ;)

    To quote Ben Sisko again. Amen.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • losdoslosdos Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    dareau wrote: »
    (...)

    Though, a large part of the whinefest on this forum right now would probably never have happened with:

    1. Clear statement that this is an early Alpha release. We're testing, we kinda need to know what level of item we're testing, typically, Tribble's been stuff that's seen a few rounds of "internal QA" and usually in a fairly finished state...

    2. Follow up Blog or Dev Post in this forum stating more-or-less everything covered in the podcast. Should not need to listen to random podcasts that I don't ususally follow because I tend to prefer not to sit around for an hour or 2, uninterrupted, listening and re-listening to what's being said because of the audio format.


    Oh, having a convenient post lets people link off to the latest word, as I don't usually listen to podcasts, I had no clue that the "promised reward" for having maxed the current R&D system is nothing... How quaint... ;)

    1. They did state that this was in alpha. The problem is the they typically don't listen to feedback, when they do nothing substantial is done to address it. The other issue with that, is that this isn't really an alpha either. They are testing for bugs and only really looking to tweak a few things, the fundamental structure of how crafting will work has already been decided and seems set in stone. They could have come to during the conceptualisation, but they chose to code the system to this state.

    2. There have been too many broken promises. When they say that all these things are coming in the future, it is highly unlikely given the track record that this will in fact happen. Maybe, I am being skeptical, but I don't think crafting updates will be on the agenda again anytime soon. It still does no explain why they want implement a half system now which is arguably worse than the current one, if they can wait and get it right.
  • nightwalker1634nightwalker1634 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    it's really difficult to get the materials on tribble so far so it's hard to explore the use of the new system and it's unclear what kinds of non-standard items we'll have access to once the new system goes live is using R and D going to be a worthwhile time investment compared to the reputation system?

    also altogether the new ease of access and bonuses don't actually make me want to do R and D but it does make me feel like I have to isn't there a way you could make the process more interesting, involved, and enjoyable?
  • drakemanabanedrakemanabane Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    First off I'd like to say that some of the changes are a bit disappointing in that conversation without a slider bar is long and tedious. Second what about the old schematics? Are these to be thrown away like old trash? Or can we convert these too? Third what of the Aegis technologies set is it to be left by the wayside as old and nonfunctional? What about horta crafting if it's not to be part of the new crafting system then maybe we should consider adding it to the ship science officer duty missions. Then there is my concerns about the nanoenergy cells and satellite turrets are these devices to be lost to the new players? My concerns are not just for my sake but also my fleet as many of them use these.

    These are just the beginnings of the problems I've seen with the new system on tribble.
  • losdoslosdos Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    First off I'd like to say that some of the changes are a bit disappointing in that conversation without a slider bar is long and tedious. Second what about the old schematics? Are these to be thrown away like old trash? Or can we convert these too? Third what of the Aegis technologies set is it to be left by the wayside as old and nonfunctional? What about horta crafting if it's not to be part of the new crafting system then maybe we should consider adding it to the ship science officer duty missions. Then there is my concerns about the nanoenergy cells and satellite turrets are these devices to be lost to the new players? My concerns are not just for my sake but also my fleet as many of them use these.

    These are just the beginnings of the problems I've seen with the new system on tribble.

    1. They are adding a slidebar soon or before release to holodeck.

    2. Schematics will be convertible I think but hey will be entirely removed from the game. the caveat is the horta mission reward schematic which for all intents and purposes be left in (not doff crafting but a normal doff mission)

    3. Aegis is in the system on tribble and will continue to be. If you can craft it now on holodeck you will not be able to after the update until you spend ages grinding through the new system.

    4. There are still some items in the dilithium store that will probably stay there (I can't remember which off the top of my head, but you can check on Tribble) the rest are in the crafting system.
  • killdozer9211killdozer9211 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    So I've seen stats on the new weapons offered by crafting systems, and if the devs are reading this far...

    If you're going to hand out omni beams and [arc] mods, could we get some UR quads with more practical stats, even if it's only for toons that paid for them?
  • comkiller007comkiller007 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Okay for all the naysayers, myself included. I have to complement the Devs for reading the posts in the official feed back thread. I do this because there were only a few of us that wanted more Omni-drectional weapons added to the game because we didn't want to be limited to just AP/anti-proton and someone else mentioned that they wanted to see the TR-116 Sniper Rifle added to the crafting system. I'm glad to say that both have been added to they system along with some juicy looking consoles.

    Now we are still looking to have other things added/changed Devs! Say for instance a Warp/Singularity core for the Ages set as to make it on par with other four piece sets currently in the system. Maybe even adding in a craftable Borg and Nukara warp/singularity cores. We are all still wanting to see the timers and Dilithium costs go away. And there needs to be further touch ups to the Rep/Fleet equipment costs as in they need to be lower shocker I know. But for casual players some of these things are months if not years out of reach of them getting one ship on one toon fully equipped.

    Again Thank you Dev Team. Looking forward to seeing more up coming changes and improvements.
  • vagiusvagius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The crafting system looked really promising at first glance, but the randomness of it is disappointing.

    I can't see myself spending dilithium on an item that may or may not be of the quality I want, and in the case of weapons, may or may not have the modifiers I want either- especially when I can already get what I want from the rep system, fleet holdings, or from the exchange without leaving it to chance.


    so.....meh
  • cojak70cojak70 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    you a sucessfuly killed crafting if i want to craft a purple mkxii item and spent all the time and money to get the stuff and thats what i better get not none of this ramdom quality TRIBBLE yall have killed crafting doing this
  • magneticmoosemagneticmoose Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I'm fairly happy with system ( especially after heard about the slider being added to the conversion screen ) A few things would be nice though:

    Common and uncommon materials that are currently bought with Dill.
    * Why not have these item convert over to those modifier components (that aren't currently on trib)

    Drops and mission awarded gear.
    * Being able to reverse engineer these to get modifiers off of them would be nice (I'm assuming this would have to be on new drops/rewards if it's even possible at all)

    Kits.
    * Where are they, or are they ever going to be craftible again?
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I disagree with the first person replying here. Beams need more buffs especially the ones that are underperforming right now. The only beam that's worth it is the proton beam because it can act as either or in PVE. The rest of them are heavily reliant on a rotation proc system which is never good, while cannons just facerole everything. There should be more meaningful choices not less.

    I also would like to see enhancements to the damage types so that those ignored beam types actually have a chance to be special. No more of this 2.5 proc rate stuff.

    Q: Does anyone know where I can find a recording of the live stream? I was at work while it was on.

    Kit Modules: I also would like to see kit modules in crafting. Where did that go and when can we see that again? Especially since this seems to be a niche market now where we're seeing a Diablo III/GW2 economy where the prices for some of these modules are just stupid crazy in the Exchange. (RNG for these things are never good especially for the low drop essentials for kits)

    Ferengi Salvage Code: I would like to ask for a deconstruction system that allows us to salvage items we get from the game of various quality so that they can be turned into common and uncommon materials. It would prevent the need of spending more dilithium in an already starved dilithium situation (Fleets for example) for people who are trying to build their fleets up who can't afford to get these materials to level.
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    5 minutes to make a Mk 2 armor? POS Dil grab, Cryptic. I'm done testing this pile of TRIBBLE. TRIBBLE up the crafting system all you want. I'll just ignore it. I've not used crafting since season 3, so I'm sure I'll get along w/o it. I'll just buy TRIBBLE off the exchange from the masochists that use the crafting system and make a fortune selling my converted mats to them. :mad:

    Pretty much what I am going to do. I have a personal fleet bank almost full of samples and traces, so a bumper pay day is incoming.... ;)
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hmm, I'll trow this idea out of the hat, but how about cutting the Dil requirements on the lvling R&D projects with 20-30% and replace that cut with some ECs cost?

    This way some of the ECs that floats in the game and its causing inflation will be "eaten"/destroyed by the system instaid of been tossed around via exchange between players.

    On a side note, its cool that onmi-beems of more energy types have been added aswell as [Arc] mod to cannons. But the [Arc] Dual Heavy cannons how much firing arc degrees will get?
  • khorinnkhorinn Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Does this update mean anyone who has already done crafting and gained research points will have to start from scratch?
  • basilisk1979basilisk1979 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Unique incentives for investing crazy amounts of time and efford could be not only carriere specific sets, kits, pets and so on but other gimics as well.

    Think of a shuttlecraft ( you yould use something like the fleet modules as requirement )

    Or think of carrierpets ( as in the rep system ) I would apreaciate one, more interceptor like fed fighter and one bomber since the peregrine is somewhat of an jack of all trades and excells at nothing.

    Or think of modifications for already existing weapons and gear like changing weapon quirks and procs like drop one inject an other but if it fails you got only the two remaining.

    Or more subtile weapon procs that buffs certain skills ( especially sci skills )
    eg. Disruptor proc that makes more vulnerable to spatial anomalys / kinetic dmg physical dmg,
    a thoron (tetryon) residual debuff that makes more rezeptive for sensor debuffs like jam or scramble
    a phaser debuff that stunns the crew and downs regrate
    a polaron debuff that makes more prone to energy leeching abilitys
    a plasma debuff that makes more vulnerable for radiation / electrical / dmg over time effects
    an antiproton debuff that makes you more vulnerable/targetable for weaponsfire ( def debuff or ACC buff for friends )





    TL; DR: Crafting is fun if the reward matches (maybe a bit overmatches? Come on devs surprise me positively) the efford put in.
  • nishkacmnishkacm Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Not sure if it's been asked before since I didn't have time to read all the replies, but will we be able to craft kits and kit powers in the future too?

    The old system allowed us to craft kits too, and I think it'd be a nice addition.
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