I can see why they nerfed the pvp repeatables. They were being terribly abused. You can blame all the people who would run it non stop for hours just to accumulate a massive amount of dilithium.
I do hope they can get the kit module section set for the exchange. They may also want to throw in a place for tokens as well like the 100 mark rep bonus and the cxp bonus. To find them, I always have to just search all.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
Repost from tribble subforums since it still fits here and was announced a week ago:
C'Mon Dev's!
you can't be serious, right? you create this thread in the 1st place you even make it possible for the playerbase to voice their questions/concerns and THEN you don't even care to take just a few seconds to answer the simple questions the people might have?
Could you please explain what sense does it make if you don't reply?
there are numerous questions you haven't even thought of answering so far. you say you have community managers? is it so hard to make em reply to some of the questions people might have?
as for me i am very interested if you could explain what you mean by a 20 hr cooldown for pvp?
i am totally not sure if i understand it correctly! are you goin to take away the only reward that makes pvp viable atm? do you want to say that you force me and others to play your so highly praised PVE content to get my dilithium?
Honestly: can u say how often have you yorselves played your own content until you realized that it got boring? You seem not to understand that a lot of players find it boring to play the same PVE content over and over and that they prefer the dynamics of playing against another living beeing (so called humans).
PVP is already in a bad shape and now you take away what was probably the last thing that made it attractive. have i mentioned that any PVE content you have created in the past grants more dilithium than any availabe PVP content there is? you dont believe me?
well look at some of the players running an ISE in under 5 minutes? got more toons? rinse and repeat. every run you will get almost 1k in dilithium. compare to pvp? not even gonna talk about the dyson ruunners. just one out of many possible examples. well see u have two opposing teams that fight against each other, of which all competing players will need at least 3! runs to get a mere 1440 dilithium in lets say quadruple the time if not more. an average pvp match (space) will take around 15 minutes as some people have already stated. now that by 3 and you have 1440 dilithium. can you see my point? no?
well you punish every player that still likes PVP (i wonder why), while every other player who plays your all so shiny PVE content gets rewarded with masses of dilithium, that is basically copypaste of what you ever created. granted you created new maps enemies graphics and stuff. ill give you that. but you will NEVER EVER beat the dynamics of HUMANS AGAINST HUMANS.
If you are really going to take dilithium away from pvp, mind if i ask you what are you going to replace it with? will i have to solo mine your precious dilithium mines to get my dilithium?
i have an Idea! why not create an absolutely unbeatable single player experience in where we can get our dilithium without having to play with others. now that would be a change!
Someone once said on a very well know STO podcast that cryptic has more than once proven that you have problems in creating multiplayer games. by killing off pvp (without even taking a few minutes to explain what why and how) you will once more have proven that those people are right in what they said.
IMHO it looks as if you are failing to create viable PVP action and by destroying it you will destroy all evidence that PVP in this game has ever existed.
and the last time i tried to enter capture and hold daily i waited until i was kicked 3 times from the queue due to your server telling me no one was playing at all. is this an active PVP community?
the PVP daily dont work because they dont happen at all. because no one plays them! and now you are going to take the rewards away for what was left,...
thank you for taking the choice away from us, thank you for forcing us to play the content you want us to play, thank you for not beheading us while we are allowed to live in your virtual realm,
thank you!
p.s.: i don't even expect an answer since you NEVER answer stuff people are angry about. and while you're at it (your all so evident ignore mode towards the players) keep watching steady streams of players leaving your game. in pvp u had a chance getting more players but u ditched it.
ON THAT I'd like to add something they probably forgot too :
PVP players are probably buying much more stuff (Zen/dili ships etc) than PVE players.
since I am pvp player I buy a lot of ships for consoles etc... most of the time I have to buy zen to do so but earning dili in pvp was helping a bit from time to time and I honestly was even more drained to buy the missing zen to buy new stuff.
How do you think I feel now ? punished for buying stuff....
I felt already punished with what they did on new FPE, Afk penalty when it's your loadout/boffs bugs that was causing it on short missions like STFs, etc...
Now, if I have to wait at best 45mn to play a 15mn (at best) pvp without reward even for wining it...
I guess this game is becoming a solo game just like Age Of Empire Online became when they did same thing to pvp... and finely died 3 month after because no one was able to play pvp anymore.
(game is on support mode and last time I logged in there was like 50 players on the biggest English server and no one on french one)).
I realy love STO since I've started 2years ago,
I'd like to support it for many years by giving money
but not if I can clearly see game is slowly diying each month with bad décisions like that.
So I realy hope, for us & for criptic/pwe, they will re think that soon and correct it before it's too late.
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
the coding task to do so would be horrendous which would also mean going through current weapon coding and making a new one entirely not something the devs have time to do
LOL no. Horrendous my lag.
A single Dev could do it in a day or two's work. I have re-modded thousands of weapons in a game once, and it took me 3 hours of work for around 4 days.
Its something that would be a boring copypasta and line changes that could be done in less than a week by one person.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I've actually come up with a sort-of answer to the issue of how to make torpedoes a little more competitive... Why not give them a certain amount of shielding they can punch through, IE, if a torpedo can punch through, say, 500 points of shielding, and someone's ship only has 300 in that facing, the torpedo goes completely through, dealing full damage to the ship (after subtracting the 300 shields from its damage). This reflects a shield being too weak to actually stop the torpedo. With a stronger shield (more than the puncture value) the torpedo is effectively bounced off, resulting in little damage.
A single Dev could do it in a day or two's work. I have re-modded thousands of weapons in a game once, and it took me 3 hours of work for around 4 days.
Its something that would be a boring copypasta and line changes that could be done in less than a week by one person.
no two sets of code are alike. For all we know, the source for the game is a mess, seeing as how they've been through a handful of people doing the work. If the code is tidy and orderly and you have someone who knows the engine well enough, sure. That recode could be done fairly quickly. However, if it's a huge mess, you know what that can lead to. Plus, almost every single time there are changes, something else always breaks. To change that many items in a game of this size may very well break a countless number of other things and then you have yourself a ton of additional working trying to track down the source of the other bugs.
I'm no coding expert - I took a single semester of C++ - but I know how annoying it can be to track down bugs. Recoding, compiling, testing, finding another bug, recoding again, another recompile...it can go on and on.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
How about fixing the AI pathfinding so my officers don't randomly stop and stand around in doorways, or make it so grenades can be dodged? I don't know how many times I've rolled away from a grenade and still be hit by it from behind a flipping wall.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
Rigging PvP missions for dil is lame. Good riddance.
Dil is easy enough to get without exploiting. No sympathy.
Kinda sad for the people who weren't abusing it, but I would hazard a guess that the metrics show that most people are not PvPing for dil legitimately. Just a guess.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Rigging PvP missions for dil is lame. Good riddance.
Dil is easy enough to get without exploiting. No sympathy.
Kinda sad for the people who weren't abusing it, but I would hazard a guess that the metrics show that most people are not PvPing for dil legitimately. Just a guess.
I know there were channels setup specifically to farm the pvp missions. I think that is where some of this anger is coming from. People got so used to being able to just go farm the dil from those pvp missions that actually playing the game now to earn it seems like a task.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
All repeatable PVP missions for FED and KLG (arena and scenario) are now set to a 20 hour cooldown.
Added a few sets of basic floor planes with FED, KLG, and ROM textures.
what is KLG? what happened to KDF?
KLinGon.
Patch wise, fixes are good, but the E-Bio Torp nerf/fix and PvP nerf needs more thought - the latter was basically the only torp worth slotting instead of an energy weapon and the PvP Dil nerf means no one will bother PvPing apart from the dedicated PvPers. Better to let the farmers farm than reduce the PvP playerbase further.
correction: the pvp arena was probably the only way of effectively using an exploit for diltihum and leveling up chars the people who use pvp to "efficiently farm dilithium" are the reason the rewards got nerfed, when people exploit the system they force the devs to take actions they may or may not want to.
Damn, you probably didnt realise what you were saying so let's see that,
- If doing repeatable pvp for lvling chars is an exploit (even knowing xp is much lower than missions)
- if farming dili by doing repeatable missions is also an exploit when everyone can do that on any rewarding missions
Then logicaly, STF and all other missions are exploit too and shoud be nerfed to the point that you dont get dili from them.
Oh and dont forget the doffs missions that are for some 15 min repeatable missions that give you dili too I guess there's also exploit for you ?
If I didnt plan to play that game for many year I'd wish dev listen to you and take out all "exploit" you are talking about , maybe you'd understand what is an exploit or not
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
The exploit comes from people constant rigging the game so they die fast and complete the mission repeatedly instead of actually PvPing, not repeating repeatable content.
I haven't gone out of my way to farm dil on my main for so long now, it is kinda funny seeing people up in arms about this. A couple hours in Jurassic Park gives enough dil for a week. Turning in all my extra Omega marks on dil weekend has let me coast on dil for weeks, and I still have some weeks built up.
Plently of ways to farm so much dil you can't refine it. No need to debase oneself by rigging PvP matches.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I've actually come up with a sort-of answer to the issue of how to make torpedoes a little more competitive... Why not give them a certain amount of shielding they can punch through, IE, if a torpedo can punch through, say, 500 points of shielding, and someone's ship only has 300 in that facing, the torpedo goes completely through, dealing full damage to the ship (after subtracting the 300 shields from its damage). This reflects a shield being too weak to actually stop the torpedo. With a stronger shield (more than the puncture value) the torpedo is effectively bounced off, resulting in little damage.
I had a similar idea. I would suggest giving torpedoes a shield penetration percentage inversely proportional to the percentage of shield facing remaining. For instance, if you hit a shield facing that has only 10% remaining, the torp has 90% penetration.
That's also a good idea! Perhaps some combination of both for the various types of torpedoes, even? That would certainly keep some competitiveness in the works.
no two sets of code are alike. For all we know, the source for the game is a mess, seeing as how they've been through a handful of people doing the work. If the code is tidy and orderly and you have someone who knows the engine well enough, sure. That recode could be done fairly quickly. However, if it's a huge mess, you know what that can lead to. Plus, almost every single time there are changes, something else always breaks. To change that many items in a game of this size may very well break a countless number of other things and then you have yourself a ton of additional working trying to track down the source of the other bugs.
I'm no coding expert - I took a single semester of C++ - but I know how annoying it can be to track down bugs. Recoding, compiling, testing, finding another bug, recoding again, another recompile...it can go on and on.
Even if STO is a mess, they said a few years ago that they use "Spreadsheats" for damage and such.
Basically, this means that the items got values on an Excel like surface. So changing them is literally just typing in a few numbers.
Of course, this is editing Items, and does not require C++ coding at all. I suck even at Excel, and I could code Dow2 weapons with a fan made editor. And I'm sure Cryptic's own game editing tools are better than fan made tools.
So if Cryptic is claiming that they can't edit base code because its a mess... I would believe that. Propably that was the problem with the loudouts-tray reset bug.
But items? Lol no.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Does anyone think that this 20hr cooldown on the KDF PvP rewards mean that the trolls will finally leave Ker'rat and the map will be what we all want it to be? Pure farming enjoyment?
I play FED and I don't know of any PvP map that actually gives a reward, for me PvP is completely useless in this game aside from destrorying other players which I always do in a designated PvP que! I really hope that this patch pushes the trolls out of Ker'rat! :P
You just dont get what a WarZone is do you ?
and you didnt realised that by having no one in pvp Q you 'll get lot more KDF chasing you in Ker'rat since they will have more time to play Ker'rat
And just for staiting that KDF are troll I hope you'll get chased all time by a lot of them Mr... troll
dont worry I'll be one of them
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
pvp dil nerf = do task, leave pvp as theres no reward (other than bragging rights)
so...
Enter kerrat = Kill feds for other dailies, farm a crapton of vendor/xii gear once the fed farmers have bolted for a new instance and make a lot more ec than before
Result: Fed farm zombies are not going to enjoy their new companions...
Even if STO is a mess, they said a few years ago that they use "Spreadsheats" for damage and such.
Basically, this means that the items got values on an Excel like surface. So changing them is literally just typing in a few numbers.
Of course, this is editing Items, and does not require C++ coding at all. I suck even at Excel, and I could code Dow2 weapons with a fan made editor. And I'm sure Cryptic's own game editing tools are better than fan made tools.
So if Cryptic is claiming that they can't edit base code because its a mess... I would believe that. Propably that was the problem with the loudouts-tray reset bug.
But items? Lol no.
Also keep in mind that they outsource all their debugging and coding. It is not done in house. I remember Bran Flakes (if I remember correctly) mentioning this about a year and a half ago. The Devs they have in house can design things like environments and even missions, but the coding itself is done elsewhere. Unless they have changed that, I can see some of this being an issue.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
I had a similar idea. I would suggest giving torpedoes a shield penetration percentage inversely proportional to the percentage of shield facing remaining. For instance, if you hit a shield facing that has only 10% remaining, the torp has 90% penetration.
would make transphasics the standard torpedo that way.... becasu with its innate 40% shield bypass to begin with, that measn once a shield facing is 50% or lower, its basically doing full damage
1) Can I get a refund on my Valdore?
2) Can I get a refund on my Valdore?
3) I never owned the torp, but I sympathise. Nerfed-Upgraded-Torp? That equates to status quo torp. This is just stupid.
4) Can we just stop pretending PvP ever existed in this game? (Make some REAL rewards for tournaments. Is it that difficult?)
5) Read 1-5.
^ I concur.
Although I understand your disappointment, I don't like complaining : I prefer to adapt.
After all, as someone's signature says , MMOs aren't charities, it's business.
In the last year, year and a half that I've been playing, I've seen nerfs and buffs and some of them hurt me in my ... "wallet" : the Valdore console nerf has yet to be tested in-field before crying nerf, but the fluidic cocoon chance buff from 5% to 20% hurt me, since I got some from opening the undine lock boxes and sold them ... fortunately I didn't grind for the Undine torp
Then again it's the rules of the games. No complain.
Anyway, after spending some money on the game sometimes a little freely ( but not so much because I don't ethically like the ptw philosophy although I understand the game needs to be financially supported ) all of this brought me to take the most logical and efficient course of action, for me, which can be summarily sintesized in a sentence : I don't trust, therefore I won't spend.
More specifically ...
I won't buy anymore any key unless there's a keys discount ( you might need lobis to buy a lobi ship)
I won't buy anymore any 3-pack ship unless there's a ships discount.
I won't buy anymore any Zen unless there's a Zen discount.
I'll just keep grinding, saving, spending very carefully and having fun because, actually it'll be a little like getting back to my old casual player's days when I used not to spend a dime and fully enjoy the ftp and the challenge of it.
For example, in 2015 there's an upcoming skill revamp : I wonder whether it'll be like the traits revamp , traits who used to be respecced by spending zen not so long time ago ...
would make transphasics the standard torpedo that way.... becasu with its innate 40% shield bypass to begin with, that measn once a shield facing is 50% or lower, its basically doing full damage
I actually really like transphasics. The sound they made is sort of comforting for some reason. I have the one you get from the borg mission and it works pretty well with Torp Spread. I have been mostly in beam boats with the occasional cutting beam, but I may give the transphasics more of a chance.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
For example, in 2015 there's an upcoming skill revamp : I wonder whether it'll be like the traits revamp , traits who used to be respecced by spending zen not so long time ago ...
Yeah, I'm curious which way they're going with that. There's been so many lil' this way and that way things that were said. With the deck building thing they're big into, think that the skill revamp is going to be a major change to how things are done (which will mean a major change to so much gear as well) and the reason that it got pushed back to S10 or later..
Comments
All repeatable PVP missions for FED and KLG (arena and scenario) are now set to a 20 hour cooldown.
Added a few sets of basic floor planes with FED, KLG, and ROM textures.
what is KLG? what happened to KDF?
Man, could you be ANY more of a jerk?
You aren't as angry as most people here. Fine. Neither am I.
That's no reason to belittle others just because they have a different opinion on the changes.
How does increasing the target's resistance to further Weapons Malfunction from 5s to 30s equate to "A reason to use Weapons Malfunction?"
I do hope they can get the kit module section set for the exchange. They may also want to throw in a place for tokens as well like the 100 mark rep bonus and the cxp bonus. To find them, I always have to just search all.
ON THAT I'd like to add something they probably forgot too :
PVP players are probably buying much more stuff (Zen/dili ships etc) than PVE players.
since I am pvp player I buy a lot of ships for consoles etc... most of the time I have to buy zen to do so but earning dili in pvp was helping a bit from time to time and I honestly was even more drained to buy the missing zen to buy new stuff.
How do you think I feel now ? punished for buying stuff....
I felt already punished with what they did on new FPE, Afk penalty when it's your loadout/boffs bugs that was causing it on short missions like STFs, etc...
Now, if I have to wait at best 45mn to play a 15mn (at best) pvp without reward even for wining it...
I guess this game is becoming a solo game just like Age Of Empire Online became when they did same thing to pvp... and finely died 3 month after because no one was able to play pvp anymore.
(game is on support mode and last time I logged in there was like 50 players on the biggest English server and no one on french one)).
I realy love STO since I've started 2years ago,
I'd like to support it for many years by giving money
but not if I can clearly see game is slowly diying each month with bad décisions like that.
So I realy hope, for us & for criptic/pwe, they will re think that soon and correct it before it's too late.
LOL no. Horrendous my lag.
A single Dev could do it in a day or two's work. I have re-modded thousands of weapons in a game once, and it took me 3 hours of work for around 4 days.
Its something that would be a boring copypasta and line changes that could be done in less than a week by one person.
No, it's not ok in either case.
I'm just tired of all the ranting in this thread.
no two sets of code are alike. For all we know, the source for the game is a mess, seeing as how they've been through a handful of people doing the work. If the code is tidy and orderly and you have someone who knows the engine well enough, sure. That recode could be done fairly quickly. However, if it's a huge mess, you know what that can lead to. Plus, almost every single time there are changes, something else always breaks. To change that many items in a game of this size may very well break a countless number of other things and then you have yourself a ton of additional working trying to track down the source of the other bugs.
I'm no coding expert - I took a single semester of C++ - but I know how annoying it can be to track down bugs. Recoding, compiling, testing, finding another bug, recoding again, another recompile...it can go on and on.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
Dil is easy enough to get without exploiting. No sympathy.
Kinda sad for the people who weren't abusing it, but I would hazard a guess that the metrics show that most people are not PvPing for dil legitimately. Just a guess.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I know there were channels setup specifically to farm the pvp missions. I think that is where some of this anger is coming from. People got so used to being able to just go farm the dil from those pvp missions that actually playing the game now to earn it seems like a task.
KLinGon.
Patch wise, fixes are good, but the E-Bio Torp nerf/fix and PvP nerf needs more thought - the latter was basically the only torp worth slotting instead of an energy weapon and the PvP Dil nerf means no one will bother PvPing apart from the dedicated PvPers. Better to let the farmers farm than reduce the PvP playerbase further.
Damn, you probably didnt realise what you were saying so let's see that,
- If doing repeatable pvp for lvling chars is an exploit (even knowing xp is much lower than missions)
- if farming dili by doing repeatable missions is also an exploit when everyone can do that on any rewarding missions
Then logicaly, STF and all other missions are exploit too and shoud be nerfed to the point that you dont get dili from them.
Oh and dont forget the doffs missions that are for some 15 min repeatable missions that give you dili too I guess there's also exploit for you ?
If I didnt plan to play that game for many year I'd wish dev listen to you and take out all "exploit" you are talking about , maybe you'd understand what is an exploit or not
Do not give them that idea for the love of Roddenberry!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I haven't gone out of my way to farm dil on my main for so long now, it is kinda funny seeing people up in arms about this. A couple hours in Jurassic Park gives enough dil for a week. Turning in all my extra Omega marks on dil weekend has let me coast on dil for weeks, and I still have some weeks built up.
Plently of ways to farm so much dil you can't refine it. No need to debase oneself by rigging PvP matches.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
and bout time they fixed some of those bugs
I had a similar idea. I would suggest giving torpedoes a shield penetration percentage inversely proportional to the percentage of shield facing remaining. For instance, if you hit a shield facing that has only 10% remaining, the torp has 90% penetration.
Even if STO is a mess, they said a few years ago that they use "Spreadsheats" for damage and such.
Basically, this means that the items got values on an Excel like surface. So changing them is literally just typing in a few numbers.
Of course, this is editing Items, and does not require C++ coding at all. I suck even at Excel, and I could code Dow2 weapons with a fan made editor. And I'm sure Cryptic's own game editing tools are better than fan made tools.
So if Cryptic is claiming that they can't edit base code because its a mess... I would believe that. Propably that was the problem with the loudouts-tray reset bug.
But items? Lol no.
You just dont get what a WarZone is do you ?
and you didnt realised that by having no one in pvp Q you 'll get lot more KDF chasing you in Ker'rat since they will have more time to play Ker'rat
And just for staiting that KDF are troll I hope you'll get chased all time by a lot of them Mr... troll
dont worry I'll be one of them
so...
Enter kerrat = Kill feds for other dailies, farm a crapton of vendor/xii gear once the fed farmers have bolted for a new instance and make a lot more ec than before
Result: Fed farm zombies are not going to enjoy their new companions...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Also keep in mind that they outsource all their debugging and coding. It is not done in house. I remember Bran Flakes (if I remember correctly) mentioning this about a year and a half ago. The Devs they have in house can design things like environments and even missions, but the coding itself is done elsewhere. Unless they have changed that, I can see some of this being an issue.
would make transphasics the standard torpedo that way.... becasu with its innate 40% shield bypass to begin with, that measn once a shield facing is 50% or lower, its basically doing full damage
Although I understand your disappointment, I don't like complaining : I prefer to adapt.
After all, as someone's signature says , MMOs aren't charities, it's business.
In the last year, year and a half that I've been playing, I've seen nerfs and buffs and some of them hurt me in my ... "wallet" : the Valdore console nerf has yet to be tested in-field before crying nerf, but the fluidic cocoon chance buff from 5% to 20% hurt me, since I got some from opening the undine lock boxes and sold them ... fortunately I didn't grind for the Undine torp
Then again it's the rules of the games. No complain.
Anyway, after spending some money on the game sometimes a little freely ( but not so much because I don't ethically like the ptw philosophy although I understand the game needs to be financially supported ) all of this brought me to take the most logical and efficient course of action, for me, which can be summarily sintesized in a sentence : I don't trust, therefore I won't spend.
More specifically ...
I won't buy anymore any key unless there's a keys discount ( you might need lobis to buy a lobi ship)
I won't buy anymore any 3-pack ship unless there's a ships discount.
I won't buy anymore any Zen unless there's a Zen discount.
I'll just keep grinding, saving, spending very carefully and having fun because, actually it'll be a little like getting back to my old casual player's days when I used not to spend a dime and fully enjoy the ftp and the challenge of it.
For example, in 2015 there's an upcoming skill revamp : I wonder whether it'll be like the traits revamp , traits who used to be respecced by spending zen not so long time ago ...
I actually really like transphasics. The sound they made is sort of comforting for some reason. I have the one you get from the borg mission and it works pretty well with Torp Spread. I have been mostly in beam boats with the occasional cutting beam, but I may give the transphasics more of a chance.
Yeah, I'm curious which way they're going with that. There's been so many lil' this way and that way things that were said. With the deck building thing they're big into, think that the skill revamp is going to be a major change to how things are done (which will mean a major change to so much gear as well) and the reason that it got pushed back to S10 or later..