Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Words cannot describe the funny, shouldn't this blatant mood lightener be in Ten Forward?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Of course a real red-blooded capitalist would be positively proud that Cochrane did it for booze, money and women. It would absolutely demonstrate Smith's thesis that with the right system, selfish deeds can redound to the benefit of all.
I just completed the First Contact mission event. I took the time to visit each of the bridge officers on the Enterprise-F and came across a very disturbing dialog.
While speaking with Lt. Com. Tem Inasi I was informed that Zefram Cochran was one of those evil capitalists types and his endeavor to prove Warp Drive was launched for the wrong reasons. For "personal gain".
This smacks of influence from the ChiCom arraignment and it serves as a leftist propaganda statement for kids playing STO that no self respecting American would condone. It is most definitely not part of the Star Trek story.
I would appreciate a response, especially since I'm a paying customer to one of those evil capitalist endeavors known as Star Trek online. I'm sure Cryptic, CBS, and others involved with this production work for free since "personal gain" is now a taboo.
I find your rhetoric to be both ignorant and offensive in the extreme.
Lol I wouldnt have though that such an obvious troll/sarcasm thread could cause such a reaction. The OP can hardly be serious. Still everyone buys it...
Lol I wouldnt have though that such an obvious troll/sarcasm thread could cause such a reaction. The OP can hardly be serious. Still everyone buys it...
10/10 from me, to.
I wouldn't count your chickens on it being an obvious troll. I actually know one or two people like this in the UK. You do not want to get them started on their topics of choice or you're stuck.
If the OP is serious then it makes his post and ignorance all that much funnier. :P
Oh I agree. I am just not presuming troll because I know a couple of people like that, and I am sure a few more of us do. Therefore he could actually be serious :eek: I hope not but I am not holding my breath.
It's an interesting subject though - to me, Roddenberry's earlier 60s liberalism was always more congenial and attractive than his later 80s "liberalism" (i.e. soi disant socialism). The TOS universe and sense of morality is more alive-feeling than the TNG one, which feels claustrophobic and limited.
Not to mention that socialism is totally unworkable while still maintaining a high technological standard. IOW, you can dream of a socialist utopia that's also high tech, but it ain't gonna happen. It's possible socialism might work (i.e. function acceptably without megadeaths and gangsters taking charge) if people accepted that their technological standard and standard of living will remain stagnant, and if trade with the non-socialist world is allowed - but even that only worked a little bit for the Commies because their natural resources were worth trading for.
The most attractive s-f socialist utopia of them all, Iain M. Banks' Culture, requires a literal deus ex machina to make it work (Minds). I always found it hilarious that Banks never seemed to be self-aware enough to realize that.
As stated it is an interesting subject. But to be honest it was the Klingon Day Of Honour that amused me, I mean most of the crew were female, and though women do serve I always felt they were male dominated? Grilka could not take her husbands position on the High Council initially I think, due to being female?
What I want to know is what do the Federation do if someone cannot be bothered to work? I mean who would be bothered if you had thing like holodecks and Risa where they live to serve to certain needs? An interesting story would be to show just what happens to these and perhaps the social exclusion they live with for being so.
Lol I wouldnt have though that such an obvious troll/sarcasm thread could cause such a reaction. The OP can hardly be serious. Still everyone buys it...
10/10 from me, to.
Let me guess: you weren't around when someone made several threads where he/she provided "evidence" that the Klingons were actually based on TRIBBLE and not communists.
The most obvious was that the TRIBBLE had a large toursim operator called "Kraft Durch Freude" which is the same acronym as "Klingon Defense Force" (KDF). That's the one piece of 100% proof one needs right?
After that experience I believe there's at least a 50% chance this is a sincere thread.
People actually think that Cochram did it for the good of mankind when he started out. That's laughable. I'm sure afterwards he changed his mind but in the beginning...not so much.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I just completed the First Contact mission event. I took the time to visit each of the bridge officers on the Enterprise-F and came across a very disturbing dialog.
While speaking with Lt. Com. Tem Inasi I was informed that Zefram Cochran was one of those evil capitalists types and his endeavor to prove Warp Drive was launched for the wrong reasons. For "personal gain".
This smacks of influence from the ChiCom arraignment and it serves as a leftist propaganda statement for kids playing STO that no self respecting American would condone. It is most definitely not part of the Star Trek story.
I would appreciate a response, especially since I'm a paying customer to one of those evil capitalist endeavors known as Star Trek online. I'm sure Cryptic, CBS, and others involved with this production work for free since "personal gain" is now a taboo.
Cochrane built the warp engine with Lily shortly after WW3, more then anything it looked like a pet project then anything official. judging by how he reacted to people he was a notious drunkard who didnt really interact, i doubt he was the type to enjoy the spotlight or enjoying currency, a very reluctant hero for the future as he was very afraid of it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The most attractive s-f socialist utopia of them all, Iain M. Banks' Culture, requires a literal deus ex machina to make it work (Minds). I always found it hilarious that Banks never seemed to be self-aware enough to realize that.
Banks' Culture doesn't just work because of Minds, but because the Culture itself became post-scarcity. The Minds ensure the Culture's capacity to influence the galaxy, but they outgrew capitalism well before that.
The problem with this stupid argument is that it doesn't account for the impact technology will have on our societies. What possible value does capitalism offer to a society that produces more than it needs with no effort?
Hell, we're nearly there with food production today. We have starvation in the world not because there's too little food, but because Humans allow it. We build our lives around the notion of working more and more to produce more and more rubbish.
NOBODY, not one politician is talking about how we adapt our societies to the bombshell that is the ever rising tideline we call structural unemployment. How can we function when our economies produce 30%, 50% etc. unemployment because the value of labour versus capital has shifted so far?
Star Trek and the Culture see the problem here. The acquisition of money and stuff becomes optional when anyone can make you anything for free.
I just completed the First Contact mission event. I took the time to visit each of the bridge officers on the Enterprise-F and came across a very disturbing dialog.
While speaking with Lt. Com. Tem Inasi I was informed that Zefram Cochran was one of those evil capitalists types and his endeavor to prove Warp Drive was launched for the wrong reasons. For "personal gain".
This smacks of influence from the ChiCom arraignment and it serves as a leftist propaganda statement for kids playing STO that no self respecting American would condone. It is most definitely not part of the Star Trek story.
I would appreciate a response, especially since I'm a paying customer to one of those evil capitalist endeavors known as Star Trek online. I'm sure Cryptic, CBS, and others involved with this production work for free since "personal gain" is now a taboo.
and TRIBBLE like that is why I don't play the Federation side. the feddy bears are scum. modeled after the peace love UN/LN model that is at its very core anti American.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I just completed the First Contact mission event. I took the time to visit each of the bridge officers on the Enterprise-F and came across a very disturbing dialog.
While speaking with Lt. Com. Tem Inasi I was informed that Zefram Cochran was one of those evil capitalists types and his endeavor to prove Warp Drive was launched for the wrong reasons. For "personal gain".
This smacks of influence from the ChiCom arraignment and it serves as a leftist propaganda statement for kids playing STO that no self respecting American would condone. It is most definitely not part of the Star Trek story.
I would appreciate a response, especially since I'm a paying customer to one of those evil capitalist endeavors known as Star Trek online. I'm sure Cryptic, CBS, and others involved with this production work for free since "personal gain" is now a taboo.
Society has "moved beyond" the need tor profits and material gain....get over it....
Communism arises after the utter failure of capitalism....
Let me guess: you weren't around when someone made several threads where he/she provided "evidence" that the Klingons were actually based on TRIBBLE and not communists.
The most obvious was that the TRIBBLE had a large toursim operator called "Kraft Durch Freude" which is the same acronym as "Klingon Defense Force" (KDF). That's the one piece of 100% proof one needs right?
After that experience I believe there's at least a 50% chance this is a sincere thread.
Well may be that was a troll post, too? Kind of obvious with such a dump statement.
This is just a sequel since that first one obviously worked out.
I'll continute with my popcorn and enjoy the hilarious angry responses... Intentional or not, its hilarious how people pick up that instead of doing what should be done with stupidity: Ignore it.
I just completed the First Contact mission event. I took the time to visit each of the bridge officers on the Enterprise-F and came across a very disturbing dialog.
While speaking with Lt. Com. Tem Inasi I was informed that Zefram Cochran was one of those evil capitalists types and his endeavor to prove Warp Drive was launched for the wrong reasons. For "personal gain".
This smacks of influence from the ChiCom arraignment and it serves as a leftist propaganda statement for kids playing STO that no self respecting American would condone. It is most definitely not part of the Star Trek story.
I would appreciate a response, especially since I'm a paying customer to one of those evil capitalist endeavors known as Star Trek online. I'm sure Cryptic, CBS, and others involved with this production work for free since "personal gain" is now a taboo.
It's one fictional character's "opinion" out of many in a fictional world. Don't let it get to you. That is, if this isn't a troll post.
It's funny, but Cochran's portrayal in First Contact reminds me a lot of Gene Roddenberry. Behind the gold-plated facade created by idealists who worship their "vision", lies the real person. The "man behind the mask", so to speak. The only difference is that the bulls**t wasn't as obvious with Cochran thanks to the passage of time. In Roddenberry's case, the moonbats either choose to ignore it or make excuses for it.
I think we need a featured episode that tells about the dangers of fracking.....and one where the Federation are taking the phasers from its civilian population.....and....I could go on....
So really its only because of the crew of the Enterprise that he became a good man...because he had to? I prefer the mirror universe version of him....we need shotguns!!!!
So really its only because of the crew of the Enterprise that he became a good man...because he had to? I prefer the mirror universe version of him....we need shotguns!!!!
He wasn't a bad person to begin with. He had his issues, to be sure. But he wasn't a complete d*ck.
Star Trek is neither communist, socialist, nor anything of the sort. It's a resource based economy that emerged through post-scarcity thanks to technology.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
and TRIBBLE like that is why I don't play the Federation side. the feddy bears are scum. modeled after the peace love UN/LN model that is at its very core anti American.
Play Ferengi, they are the very soul of America made manifest in all its capitalistic glory! Free McSnail burger just for you!
Also, OP knows not Star Trek, where the magic of replicators made money obsolete.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I just completed the First Contact mission event. I took the time to visit each of the bridge officers on the Enterprise-F and came across a very disturbing dialog.
While speaking with Lt. Com. Tem Inasi I was informed that Zefram Cochran was one of those evil capitalists types and his endeavor to prove Warp Drive was launched for the wrong reasons. For "personal gain".
This smacks of influence from the ChiCom arraignment and it serves as a leftist propaganda statement for kids playing STO that no self respecting American would condone. It is most definitely not part of the Star Trek story.
I would appreciate a response, especially since I'm a paying customer to one of those evil capitalist endeavors known as Star Trek online. I'm sure Cryptic, CBS, and others involved with this production work for free since "personal gain" is now a taboo.
Hate to break it to you but right wing conservative "cartelism" (not to be confused with capitalism) has been nothing but an epic failure. It's very obvious that the right wing Cartelist with their me, me, me have forgotten what "united" in United States means.
"Science" is showing the right wing cartelism has lied about every claim its made. It's on the way out, thankfully.
I'd like to make a suggestion that may make Star Trek Online more fun for you, play a Ferengi. It might fit better with your world view.
Hate to break it to you but right wing conservative "cartelism" (not to be confused with capitalism) has been nothing but an epic failure. It's very obvious that the right wing Cartelist with their me, me, me have forgotten what "united" in United States means.
"Science" is showing the right wing cartelism has lied about every claim its made. It's on the way out, thankfully.
I'd like to make a suggestion that may make Star Trek Online more fun for you, play a Ferengi. It might fit better with your world view.
Negotiated cartelism isn't "right wing", as you put it. It's a form of leverage used by labor unions to win wage concessions from employers. Labor unions are generally associated with political and economic leftists here in the United States.
The capitalists who run the industries, are in a sense, "held hostage". Because paying wages above market clearing levels is better than suffering from work disruptions, strikes, etc. Unless, of course, the company in question is blessed with being located in a Right to Work State.
The real loser from all of this is the end consumer.
CBS owns the IP, a Chinese company owns the game, the Federation was based on a socialist utopia, the developers were likely educated by Maoist professors that conveniently overlooked the millions that were starved and mass executed in the name of social justice and equality.
What did you expect?
PS: if you still believe America is capitalist you haven't been paying attention.
Comments
Wow, I read through the whole thread....sign of quality work.
Personally, I like Zeph's choice of music....
I know its a crazy idea right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui6g23ygov8
"I do not like money, money is the reason we fight." Karl Marx
"The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism." Karl Marx
"I still call myself a communist, because communism is no more what Russia made of it than Christianity is what the churches make of it. " Pete Seeger
Joined January 2009
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Of course a real red-blooded capitalist would be positively proud that Cochrane did it for booze, money and women. It would absolutely demonstrate Smith's thesis that with the right system, selfish deeds can redound to the benefit of all.
I find your rhetoric to be both ignorant and offensive in the extreme.
-- A Self-Respecting American
10/10 from me, to.
I wouldn't count your chickens on it being an obvious troll. I actually know one or two people like this in the UK. You do not want to get them started on their topics of choice or you're stuck.
Oh I agree. I am just not presuming troll because I know a couple of people like that, and I am sure a few more of us do. Therefore he could actually be serious :eek: I hope not but I am not holding my breath.
Not to mention that socialism is totally unworkable while still maintaining a high technological standard. IOW, you can dream of a socialist utopia that's also high tech, but it ain't gonna happen. It's possible socialism might work (i.e. function acceptably without megadeaths and gangsters taking charge) if people accepted that their technological standard and standard of living will remain stagnant, and if trade with the non-socialist world is allowed - but even that only worked a little bit for the Commies because their natural resources were worth trading for.
The most attractive s-f socialist utopia of them all, Iain M. Banks' Culture, requires a literal deus ex machina to make it work (Minds). I always found it hilarious that Banks never seemed to be self-aware enough to realize that.
What I want to know is what do the Federation do if someone cannot be bothered to work? I mean who would be bothered if you had thing like holodecks and Risa where they live to serve to certain needs? An interesting story would be to show just what happens to these and perhaps the social exclusion they live with for being so.
Let me guess: you weren't around when someone made several threads where he/she provided "evidence" that the Klingons were actually based on TRIBBLE and not communists.
The most obvious was that the TRIBBLE had a large toursim operator called "Kraft Durch Freude" which is the same acronym as "Klingon Defense Force" (KDF). That's the one piece of 100% proof one needs right?
After that experience I believe there's at least a 50% chance this is a sincere thread.
People actually think that Cochram did it for the good of mankind when he started out. That's laughable. I'm sure afterwards he changed his mind but in the beginning...not so much.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Cochrane built the warp engine with Lily shortly after WW3, more then anything it looked like a pet project then anything official. judging by how he reacted to people he was a notious drunkard who didnt really interact, i doubt he was the type to enjoy the spotlight or enjoying currency, a very reluctant hero for the future as he was very afraid of it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Banks' Culture doesn't just work because of Minds, but because the Culture itself became post-scarcity. The Minds ensure the Culture's capacity to influence the galaxy, but they outgrew capitalism well before that.
The problem with this stupid argument is that it doesn't account for the impact technology will have on our societies. What possible value does capitalism offer to a society that produces more than it needs with no effort?
Hell, we're nearly there with food production today. We have starvation in the world not because there's too little food, but because Humans allow it. We build our lives around the notion of working more and more to produce more and more rubbish.
NOBODY, not one politician is talking about how we adapt our societies to the bombshell that is the ever rising tideline we call structural unemployment. How can we function when our economies produce 30%, 50% etc. unemployment because the value of labour versus capital has shifted so far?
Star Trek and the Culture see the problem here. The acquisition of money and stuff becomes optional when anyone can make you anything for free.
and TRIBBLE like that is why I don't play the Federation side. the feddy bears are scum. modeled after the peace love UN/LN model that is at its very core anti American.
Society has "moved beyond" the need tor profits and material gain....get over it....
Communism arises after the utter failure of capitalism....
Mine Trap Supporter
Well may be that was a troll post, too? Kind of obvious with such a dump statement.
This is just a sequel since that first one obviously worked out.
I'll continute with my popcorn and enjoy the hilarious angry responses... Intentional or not, its hilarious how people pick up that instead of doing what should be done with stupidity: Ignore it.
Some popcorn?
It's one fictional character's "opinion" out of many in a fictional world. Don't let it get to you. That is, if this isn't a troll post.
It's funny, but Cochran's portrayal in First Contact reminds me a lot of Gene Roddenberry. Behind the gold-plated facade created by idealists who worship their "vision", lies the real person. The "man behind the mask", so to speak. The only difference is that the bulls**t wasn't as obvious with Cochran thanks to the passage of time. In Roddenberry's case, the moonbats either choose to ignore it or make excuses for it.
He wasn't a bad person to begin with. He had his issues, to be sure. But he wasn't a complete d*ck.
Play Ferengi, they are the very soul of America made manifest in all its capitalistic glory! Free McSnail burger just for you!
Also, OP knows not Star Trek, where the magic of replicators made money obsolete.
Hate to break it to you but right wing conservative "cartelism" (not to be confused with capitalism) has been nothing but an epic failure. It's very obvious that the right wing Cartelist with their me, me, me have forgotten what "united" in United States means.
"Science" is showing the right wing cartelism has lied about every claim its made. It's on the way out, thankfully.
I'd like to make a suggestion that may make Star Trek Online more fun for you, play a Ferengi. It might fit better with your world view.
Save the American bashing for another time.
And, for the record, money still exists. It just doesn't play a central role on most Federation worlds anymore.
@galacticgoo
Negotiated cartelism isn't "right wing", as you put it. It's a form of leverage used by labor unions to win wage concessions from employers. Labor unions are generally associated with political and economic leftists here in the United States.
The capitalists who run the industries, are in a sense, "held hostage". Because paying wages above market clearing levels is better than suffering from work disruptions, strikes, etc. Unless, of course, the company in question is blessed with being located in a Right to Work State.
The real loser from all of this is the end consumer.
What did you expect?
PS: if you still believe America is capitalist you haven't been paying attention.
lol.....the biggest lie of all.....We have no "Rights at work" in right to work states....
Unions are why you have weekends, a 40-hour week, overtime....it's also why children no longer work 40-60 hour weeks.....
Give up on your revisionist history and educate yourself.....
Corporations ARE NOT people
Money DOES NOT EQUAL speech
That is oligarchy.....not a republic or any form of democracy.
It's also how Rome fell.....