lol.....the biggest lie of all.....We have no "Rights at work" in right to work states....
Unions are why you have weekends, a 40-hour week, overtime....it's also why children no longer work 40-60 hour weeks.....
Give up on your revisionist history and educate yourself.....
Corporations ARE NOT people
Money DOES NOT EQUAL speech
That is oligarchy.....not a republic or any form of democracy.
It's also how Rome fell.....
Industries tend to last longer and prosper in Right to Work States. Which means jobs for the working stiff and money into the economy.
And all that wonderful stuff you listed were from a time when labor unions were actually relevant, and managed to do some good. However, that is not the case any longer. Unions are actually a detriment to the health of modern industry and economies because of their self-serving TRIBBLE. They've long outlived their usefulness.
So, spare me your nonsensical claptrap. The real world is far different than what that college professor told you in class, kiddo.
I just completed the First Contact mission event. I took the time to visit each of the bridge officers on the Enterprise-F and came across a very disturbing dialog.
While speaking with Lt. Com. Tem Inasi I was informed that Zefram Cochran was one of those evil capitalists types and his endeavor to prove Warp Drive was launched for the wrong reasons. For "personal gain".
This smacks of influence from the ChiCom arraignment and it serves as a leftist propaganda statement for kids playing STO that no self respecting American would condone. It is most definitely not part of the Star Trek story.
I would appreciate a response, especially since I'm a paying customer to one of those evil capitalist endeavors known as Star Trek online. I'm sure Cryptic, CBS, and others involved with this production work for free since "personal gain" is now a taboo.
Sugar coating figures from the past and hailing them as heroes is very human. It's even very American. Just look a Reagan, he more or less dumped mental patients on the streets and mental health has been in disarray ever since. He also laid down the groundwork for corporate interest to gradually corner and control the free market. But to hear most Americans tell it, he's once of the greatest men in history. They kind of opt to gloss over those parts. :P
I'm sure Cryptic, CBS, and others involved with this production work for free since "personal gain" is now a taboo
I can't believe this didn't tip you all off.
I am NikkoJT, Foundry author and terrible player. Follow me!
There used to be a picture here, but they changed signatures and I can't be bothered to replace it.
This smacks of influence from the ChiCom arraignment and it serves as a leftist propaganda statement for kids playing STO that no self respecting American would condone. It is most definitely not part of the Star Trek story.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Let me guess: you weren't around when someone made several threads where he/she provided "evidence" that the Klingons were actually based on TRIBBLE and not communists.
The most obvious was that the TRIBBLE had a large toursim operator called "Kraft Durch Freude" which is the same acronym as "Klingon Defense Force" (KDF). That's the one piece of 100% proof one needs right?
Nah, the best one was the "proof" being that "Klink" was a racist term because it was the name of a TRIBBLE Colonel (played by a Jewish actor, no less) on an old TV comedy called Hogan's Heroes. That was some classic horse manure.
CBS owns the IP, a Chinese company owns the game, the Federation was based on a socialist utopia, the developers were likely educated by Maoist professors that conveniently overlooked the millions that were starved and mass executed in the name of social justice and equality.
What did you expect?
PS: if you still believe America is capitalist you haven't been paying attention.
Negotiated cartelism isn't "right wing", as you put it. It's a form of leverage used by labor unions to win wage concessions from employers. Labor unions are generally associated with political and economic leftists here in the United States.
The capitalists who run the industries, are in a sense, "held hostage". Because paying wages above market clearing levels is better than suffering from work disruptions, strikes, etc. Unless, of course, the company in question is blessed with being located in a Right to Work State.
The real loser from all of this is the end consumer.
So if I understand you correctly:
people get together for the common good for all = bad
corporations get together to form cartels for only the benefit of the cartel/owners = good
No thanks. And its not the Star Trek
It's a failure now, and will be a failure always. The corporate cartels are the number one reason the economy failed in 2008. It's the reason the economy can't recover as quickly as it should.
"Right to work" only benefits the cartel/owner.
Difference between you and me is I put people and their well being before profits and artificial constructs (aka corporations).
Lets do an experiment, I'll give you the right wing cartelists wet dream and pay the all workers zero money. Cartel/owners get all the money! Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
This is terrible, know that child worker you *****. Their complaining and making workers unhappy which impacts production. I know, being in a "Right to Work" state you can fire them! A few phone calls to your cartel/owner friends and won't be able to get a job near here, but anywhere. Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
One slight issue, who will buy your products now? I know, the 3-4 cartelist/owners! Now we just need to get rid of the other thousands of product on the loading dock. Uh-Oh, since the workers are not being paid, they can't afford food or shelter and are getting sick dying off. Just like them to only think of themselves. I know, we'll automate everything so we don't need workers! Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
Another problem, all the workers dying off are clogging the streets. How thoughtless of these lazy moochers to just clog the streets with their dead bodies. Oh and since none can buy your product its overflowed the loading dock and is clogging the street too. I know, we'll use our cartelist/owner lobbyists to get the government to use eminent domain to steal all the workers houses, and you can store product there. Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
Boy, just look at all the freedom and democracy the right wing cartels have created!
Uh-oh, another problem. What's left of the workers banded together to stand up to the right wing cartel/owners calling themselves Freedom Fighters. You and the cartel/owners being on the other side call them evil terrorists. I know, use the Military to bomb their own people. Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
Man listen to those explosions of Freedom and Liberty!
Oh my, you forgot to account for the fact the workers outnumber cartelist/owners 100 to 1. And the name General Custer comes to mind as the war of attrition gives the power back to the people. Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, and this time it is everyone! And we're on the path to a Star Trek future. The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is/was out of touch with reality!
EDIT: Is that redundant? I haven't had coffee yet so I can't tell.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The right wing has been suffering from cognitive dissonance for some time. In the right wing world, information supplied by anything other than conservative media is a conspiracy to misinform the public and bring on the leftist dystopia. Climate change is a myth propagated by scientists to get grant funding, evolution is a lie from the Devil, an actual quote from a Republican congressman running for Senate), a good day is when a child loses his food stamps and a bad day is when a family gets health insurance. They've become so selfish, so completely arrogant in their certitude that their economic ideas hold water after abundant evidence has proven it wrong, that eventually I had to stop engaging with them and stop reading their drivel to save my peace of mind.
I've encountered these types many times.
But the really weird thing about this thread and the couple of wingnuts participating
is that this is in the context of Star Trek. Why a right wing Republican would ever watch Star Trek, let alone play it as a game is a bit beyond me. The whole premise of the show is that the right wing view on economics and society were wrong and were wholeheartedly rejected by the human race. If this were some Ferengi themed show about the wonders of creative destruction in capitalism I wouldn't be so eager to devote so much time to it.
In a way, I believe in Star Trek. Not in Vulcans and such, but in the idea that technology and societal evolution will eventually rid of us of poverty and bring on a new era for mankind. That make me a technological utopianist, something I'm sure that the people of Star Trek would share. If this were to become true, folks like the OP and the other Fox News propagandized people would likely lose their minds. Fortunately their worldview is on the downward slope and will be marginalized within about 12 years or so.
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
But he DID develop warp drive for personal gain. Direct quote from First Contact: "You wanna know what my vision is? Dollar signs, money! I didn't build this ship to usher in a new era for humanity. You think I wanna see the stars? I don't even like to fly! I take trains! I built this ship so I could retire to some tropical island...filled with naked women. THAT'S Zefram Cochrane. THAT'S his vision. This other guy you keep talking about, this historical figure? I never met him. I can't imagine I ever will."
^^ this this this^^
And with all due respect if you have such a problem with "Chicom" influences you so believe exist here, then good luck getting through the rest of your day. I would imagine more than 50% of the TRIBBLE you'll use today is made by those folks who's influences have got you so pissy.
Apparently, you didn't "understand me correctly". And your bulls**t accusations of me being some sort of Objectivist are beyond the pale. True conservatives, such as myself, have little use for the bulk of Rand's philosophies.
And your hysterical and presumptuous ranting and raging does not impress me. Learn a little bit about rational discussion and how the world actually works (i.e. get your head out of your TRIBBLE). Then I might be able to enjoy a discussion with you on the matter, even if we disagree.
But the really weird thing about this thread and the couple of wingnuts participating
is that this is in the context of Star Trek. Why a right wing Republican would ever watch Star Trek, let alone play it as a game is a bit beyond me. The whole premise of the show is that the right wing view on economics and society were wrong and were wholeheartedly rejected by the human race. If this were some Ferengi themed show about the wonders of creative destruction in capitalism I wouldn't be so eager to devote so much time to it.
Because enjoying the storyline does not require you to buy into the message, in whole or in part.
Star Trek is a great series for adventures, both action-oriented and cerebral in nature.
It is perfectly viable to ignore the elements that one disagrees with, or consider them to occur in an entirely different sociopolitical context (the Klingons, intended to be the USSR stand-in, were not actually terribly like the USSR at all, no matter how badly they wanted the analogy). Or the viewer can simply write the entire thing off as being in a grossly different and entirely hypothetical context separate from the present era in reality. The actual pragmatics of the economic message (and many of the other political aspects) do not come into play all that much; while it is known that the Federation has (depending on the writer) tossed money off to the side, we do not see Picard commenting on his lack of a paycheck on a regular basis. Star Trek is not an infallible philosophical manual to base one's life on. Nothing is, really, but Star Trek is quite far from it. But it IS entertaining, rich, and sometimes asks interesting questions.
As per the game, there are any number of reasons, including liking pew-pew, enjoying the Star Trek universe and liking to pew-pew in its context, and liking to see dinosaurs go splat and Borg go 'splodie.
But he DID develop warp drive for personal gain. Direct quote from First Contact: "You wanna know what my vision is? Dollar signs, money! I didn't build this ship to usher in a new era for humanity. You think I wanna see the stars? I don't even like to fly! I take trains! I built this ship so I could retire to some tropical island...filled with naked women. THAT'S Zefram Cochrane. THAT'S his vision. This other guy you keep talking about, this historical figure? I never met him. I can't imagine I ever will."
Exactly. The disagreement lies with the viewpoint that personal gain is bad. If you're obsessed about it to the extent of ferengi, you need mental help bro, but advancing yourself up the ladder of society isn't bad, capitolism isn't bad, when the system is abused it becomes bad. OP, seriously though don't be a prick, just shut up about it k? Some lowly lt cmdr is an idealist that is thinking with the mind of a 10 year old, just chill.
Because enjoying the storyline does not require you to buy into the message, in whole or in part.
Star Trek is a great series for adventures, both action-oriented and cerebral in nature.
It is perfectly viable to ignore the elements that one disagrees with, or consider them to occur in an entirely different sociopolitical context (the Klingons, intended to be the USSR stand-in, were not actually terribly like the USSR at all, no matter how badly they wanted the analogy). Or the viewer can simply write the entire thing off as being in a grossly different and entirely hypothetical context separate from the present era in reality. The actual pragmatics of the economic message (and many of the other political aspects) do not come into play all that much; while it is known that the Federation has (depending on the writer) tossed money off to the side, we do not see Picard commenting on his lack of a paycheck on a regular basis. Star Trek is not an infallible philosophical manual to base one's life on. Nothing is, really, but Star Trek is quite far from it. But it IS entertaining, rich, and sometimes asks interesting questions.
As per the game, there are any number of reasons, including liking pew-pew, enjoying the Star Trek universe and liking to pew-pew in its context, and liking to see dinosaurs go splat and Borg go 'splodie.
Yeah, I've long thought that the show itself would not be a big hit with the right wing, but in terms of the game you're completely right. Considering that the single biggest thing we do in the game is kill lots and lots of people, the economic message can be ignored by those who disagree. I don't like it that we don't get to take prisoners instead of shooting every last enemy in a ground fight. I think Trek should have more missions where you have some option other than kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. But I still play because I've loved Trek since the original series and this is the only game right now letting you play in that world.
So yeah, even the right wingers can enjoy STO. And maybe if their heads don't explode maybe they'll learn something along the way.
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
The most ironic thing of all is that Gene did the WHOLE IP - for personal gain - and women and Booze!! As he was a notorious cheater. Kind of like the lines from First contact - I did it for Booze, money, and women. You can easily replace Cochrane with Rodenberry.
Apparently, you didn't "understand me correctly". And your bulls**t accusations of me being some sort of Objectivist are beyond the pale. True conservatives, such as myself, have little use for the bulk of Rand's philosophies.
And your hysterical and presumptuous ranting and raging does not impress me. Learn a little bit about rational discussion and how the world actually works (i.e. get your head out of your TRIBBLE). Then I might be able to enjoy a discussion with you on the matter, even if we disagree.
Is this the 25 point bonus round where you wrap yourself in a flag and claim to be a patriot while putting words in other peoples mouths to support your viewpoint? Never accused you of anything or called you names. Then again, experience in the past has shown this is how right wing cartelists proceed in any discussion.
And then next is the rapid fire round where you'll take the "victim" route and claim everyone is persecuting you. A lot of us have suffered though right wing cartelists hate and delusional discussions especially since 2000.
So you'll get zero sympathy from me, I've seen too many friends and family screwed over by right wing cartelists grossly out of touch with reality.
Yeah, I've long thought that the show itself would not be a big hit with the right wing, but in terms of the game you're completely right. Considering that the single biggest thing we do in the game is kill lots and lots of people, the economic message can be ignored by those who disagree. I don't like it that we don't get to take prisoners instead of shooting every last enemy in a ground fight. I think Trek should have more missions where you have some option other than kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. But I still play because I've loved Trek since the original series and this is the only game right now letting you play in that world.
So yeah, even the right wingers can enjoy STO. And maybe if their heads don't explode maybe they'll learn something along the way.
I used to be one of those "right wingers" you speak of with such spite. Star Trek (tv shows) were instrumental in changing my opinion. I'm don't associate with the left or right wing, I guess you could say I'm an american idealist that believes in freedom and people's right to do what they want, without the government getting involved.
To some extent I agree with you, radical conservatives are insane, but I see where they're coming from. I used to be one after all.
Watch First Contact. Cochran admitted he only did it for financial gain. That being said.... ITS A MOVIE/VIDEO GAME! It's Not Real. If virtual media pisses you off so much, stop playing, and take your whine off these forums.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
You should hear what the Engineer on the Bortas said about "honor".
I really did like that one. For Tarol, "honor" is what a human might call a sense of professionalism. Taking pride in your work, even if you never hear a whisper of praise over it.
And then on the other end of the scale there's Hark of the House of J'mpok, who is a straight-up glory hound with his eye on Koren's job.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
Industries tend to last longer and prosper in Right to Work States. Which means jobs for the working stiff and money into the economy.
And all that wonderful stuff you listed were from a time when labor unions were actually relevant, and managed to do some good. However, that is not the case any longer. Unions are actually a detriment to the health of modern industry and economies because of their self-serving TRIBBLE. They've long outlived their usefulness.
So, spare me your nonsensical claptrap. The real world is far different than what that college professor told you in class, kiddo.
Sugar coating figures from the past and hailing them as heroes is very human. It's even very American. Just look a Reagan, he more or less dumped mental patients on the streets and mental health has been in disarray ever since. He also laid down the groundwork for corporate interest to gradually corner and control the free market. But to hear most Americans tell it, he's once of the greatest men in history. They kind of opt to gloss over those parts. :P
I can't believe this didn't tip you all off.
There used to be a picture here, but they changed signatures and I can't be bothered to replace it.
Wow, this post made my morning!
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Inorite? It must be a pinko commie plot! :eek:
Clearly this is the best solution.
Joined January 2009
Nah, the best one was the "proof" being that "Klink" was a racist term because it was the name of a TRIBBLE Colonel (played by a Jewish actor, no less) on an old TV comedy called Hogan's Heroes. That was some classic horse manure.
Also, Cochrane himself admitted to that fact in First Contact.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
You're assuming he's being serious....
Oh please, keep this thread going !
The Swiss bankers handling all of the money European politicians embezzled beg to say otherwise. But by all means, continue on! Roflmao.
So if I understand you correctly:
people get together for the common good for all = bad
corporations get together to form cartels for only the benefit of the cartel/owners = good
No thanks. And its not the Star Trek
It's a failure now, and will be a failure always. The corporate cartels are the number one reason the economy failed in 2008. It's the reason the economy can't recover as quickly as it should.
"Right to work" only benefits the cartel/owner.
Difference between you and me is I put people and their well being before profits and artificial constructs (aka corporations).
Lets do an experiment, I'll give you the right wing cartelists wet dream and pay the all workers zero money. Cartel/owners get all the money! Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
This is terrible, know that child worker you *****. Their complaining and making workers unhappy which impacts production. I know, being in a "Right to Work" state you can fire them! A few phone calls to your cartel/owner friends and won't be able to get a job near here, but anywhere. Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
One slight issue, who will buy your products now? I know, the 3-4 cartelist/owners! Now we just need to get rid of the other thousands of product on the loading dock. Uh-Oh, since the workers are not being paid, they can't afford food or shelter and are getting sick dying off. Just like them to only think of themselves. I know, we'll automate everything so we don't need workers! Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
Another problem, all the workers dying off are clogging the streets. How thoughtless of these lazy moochers to just clog the streets with their dead bodies. Oh and since none can buy your product its overflowed the loading dock and is clogging the street too. I know, we'll use our cartelist/owner lobbyists to get the government to use eminent domain to steal all the workers houses, and you can store product there. Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
Boy, just look at all the freedom and democracy the right wing cartels have created!
Uh-oh, another problem. What's left of the workers banded together to stand up to the right wing cartel/owners calling themselves Freedom Fighters. You and the cartel/owners being on the other side call them evil terrorists. I know, use the Military to bomb their own people. Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, if you're a cartelist/owner! The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is proud of you!
Man listen to those explosions of Freedom and Liberty!
Oh my, you forgot to account for the fact the workers outnumber cartelist/owners 100 to 1. And the name General Custer comes to mind as the war of attrition gives the power back to the people. Yea! Happy? Champagne dreams for everyone, and this time it is everyone! And we're on the path to a Star Trek future. The Perfect World! Ayn Rand is/was out of touch with reality!
EDIT: Is that redundant? I haven't had coffee yet so I can't tell.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yes, because stooping to their level shows how enlightened you are.
Aboard the R.R.W Lleiset - I had to throw out my "Engage" Finger gesture TWICE!!
Yes you heard right - in the cut scence I had to call "Engage" 2 times!! This is Intolerable!!
I want to speak to a Dev NOW!!
I've encountered these types many times.
But the really weird thing about this thread and the couple of wingnuts participating
is that this is in the context of Star Trek. Why a right wing Republican would ever watch Star Trek, let alone play it as a game is a bit beyond me. The whole premise of the show is that the right wing view on economics and society were wrong and were wholeheartedly rejected by the human race. If this were some Ferengi themed show about the wonders of creative destruction in capitalism I wouldn't be so eager to devote so much time to it.
In a way, I believe in Star Trek. Not in Vulcans and such, but in the idea that technology and societal evolution will eventually rid of us of poverty and bring on a new era for mankind. That make me a technological utopianist, something I'm sure that the people of Star Trek would share. If this were to become true, folks like the OP and the other Fox News propagandized people would likely lose their minds. Fortunately their worldview is on the downward slope and will be marginalized within about 12 years or so.
^^ this this this^^
And with all due respect if you have such a problem with "Chicom" influences you so believe exist here, then good luck getting through the rest of your day. I would imagine more than 50% of the TRIBBLE you'll use today is made by those folks who's influences have got you so pissy.
Apparently, you didn't "understand me correctly". And your bulls**t accusations of me being some sort of Objectivist are beyond the pale. True conservatives, such as myself, have little use for the bulk of Rand's philosophies.
And your hysterical and presumptuous ranting and raging does not impress me. Learn a little bit about rational discussion and how the world actually works (i.e. get your head out of your TRIBBLE). Then I might be able to enjoy a discussion with you on the matter, even if we disagree.
Because enjoying the storyline does not require you to buy into the message, in whole or in part.
Star Trek is a great series for adventures, both action-oriented and cerebral in nature.
It is perfectly viable to ignore the elements that one disagrees with, or consider them to occur in an entirely different sociopolitical context (the Klingons, intended to be the USSR stand-in, were not actually terribly like the USSR at all, no matter how badly they wanted the analogy). Or the viewer can simply write the entire thing off as being in a grossly different and entirely hypothetical context separate from the present era in reality. The actual pragmatics of the economic message (and many of the other political aspects) do not come into play all that much; while it is known that the Federation has (depending on the writer) tossed money off to the side, we do not see Picard commenting on his lack of a paycheck on a regular basis. Star Trek is not an infallible philosophical manual to base one's life on. Nothing is, really, but Star Trek is quite far from it. But it IS entertaining, rich, and sometimes asks interesting questions.
As per the game, there are any number of reasons, including liking pew-pew, enjoying the Star Trek universe and liking to pew-pew in its context, and liking to see dinosaurs go splat and Borg go 'splodie.
Yeah, I've long thought that the show itself would not be a big hit with the right wing, but in terms of the game you're completely right. Considering that the single biggest thing we do in the game is kill lots and lots of people, the economic message can be ignored by those who disagree. I don't like it that we don't get to take prisoners instead of shooting every last enemy in a ground fight. I think Trek should have more missions where you have some option other than kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. But I still play because I've loved Trek since the original series and this is the only game right now letting you play in that world.
So yeah, even the right wingers can enjoy STO. And maybe if their heads don't explode maybe they'll learn something along the way.
Is this the 25 point bonus round where you wrap yourself in a flag and claim to be a patriot while putting words in other peoples mouths to support your viewpoint? Never accused you of anything or called you names. Then again, experience in the past has shown this is how right wing cartelists proceed in any discussion.
And then next is the rapid fire round where you'll take the "victim" route and claim everyone is persecuting you. A lot of us have suffered though right wing cartelists hate and delusional discussions especially since 2000.
So you'll get zero sympathy from me, I've seen too many friends and family screwed over by right wing cartelists grossly out of touch with reality.
To some extent I agree with you, radical conservatives are insane, but I see where they're coming from. I used to be one after all.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
TOS anyway, TNG was different.
I really did like that one. For Tarol, "honor" is what a human might call a sense of professionalism. Taking pride in your work, even if you never hear a whisper of praise over it.
And then on the other end of the scale there's Hark of the House of J'mpok, who is a straight-up glory hound with his eye on Koren's job.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/