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Official Revamped Trait and Reputation Powers System Feedback Thread

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  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    4/4/4 is fundamentally flawed.

    It means that powers will have to be pretty damn good to be worth using, which runs a huge risk of them being Overpowered.
    The traits we have now on holodeck, with exception of one, are not overpowered, they are perfectly balance and have a subtle but noticable effect, just as how it should be.

    8/8/4 is the only reasonable option on every point.
    How ?

    The only point with a good amount validity so far that i have seen, is so existing players get to keep what passives they have all ready and keep them all ways running, and won't feel as if their grinding was for nothing.

    O.o no they won't becuase if they are properly balanced level across the board, yes i know this won't likely happen but. Then it doesn't matter how little you get or how much. Who would run with out extra power, no one would be that dumb even if they only altered you a tiny bit. Also it easier for a small dev team to balance less amount of passives then more, becuase often the affects of one passive end up making another vastly better, imagine how high that power creep can get for 8 synergistic passives vs 4.

    The ones on holodeck are far from perfectly balanced.... half them barely are noticeable. Let me guess you run mostly just offensive powers.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    4/4/4 is fundamentally flawed.

    It means that powers will have to be pretty damn good to be worth using, which runs a huge risk of them being Overpowered.
    The traits we have now on holodeck, with exception of one, are not overpowered, they are perfectly balance and have a subtle but noticable effect, just as how it should be.

    8/8/4 is the only reasonable option on every point.

    Today's tribbler patch notes: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1072931 They actually nerfed some reputation powers. So now they're only slightly better than the old system. :(
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Wow. So Angry!

    To take care of all the power creep. They just should have if someone overpower there ship too much something goes wrong. Weapons malfunction, warp core destablizes, etc etc with a time limit.

    Just maybe the reason why people are suggesting other things now. Is because Star Trek Online or better yet Cryptic is not doing things to keep loyal players considering hard earn reputations are taken away. They are doing the opposite.


    So, I have no problem say this. The ships Sister of Eve on Eve Online look like early Fed ships pretty cool. Also, Star Citizen might be interesting to check out once release. No caps, just play and build up skill and ships.

    That wouldn't fix the power creep. It would make the game worse to play if you have to wait a while before you can do any content. STO caters to more casual gamers, not the most hardcore of the hardcore.

    I was responding to the part of the user's post where he/she suggested that, like Eve, we *permanently* lose ships and or characters upon defeat in combat, ultimately causing us to lose *everything* we have worked for such as fleet ships, special events, lock box ships - you think anybody want's to permanently lose a lock box ship because they die in combat? - causing us to have to start completely over on a new character. THAT is what I'm against, and pointed out that when such a thing has been suggested on the forums, the consensus has always been a big flat NO.
  • ruinsfateruinsfate Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Oops, I should've posted this here, not the other thread, I think.

    Please revert the new change to the Aux Power Offense power from Tier 4 Nukara Rep. Ways to boost Exotic Science powers are sorely needed, and this is a highly thematic and flavourful way to do it.

    Reducing this power to just one more of the 90 gajillion ways to boost weapon damage is both boring and unneeded.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Today's tribbler patch notes: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1072931 They actually nerfed some reputation powers. So now they're only slightly better than the old system. :(

    Lol.

    So Cryptic decided to decrease passive skills 50% and then nerf the buffs they said they will do.

    Nice. So, all the people who was saying 4/4/4 is good. You actually going lose out half your passive skills with no real benefit.
  • captainbaileycaptainbailey Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Lol.

    So Cryptic decided to decrease passive skills 50% and then nerf the buffs they said they will do.

    Nice. So, all the people who was saying 4/4/4 is good. You actually going lose out half your passive skills with no real benefit.

    Yeah, i would love to hear their arguments now. All that "but the traits are buffed 2x more so it equals the same" or "you'll actually be stronger with the new traits than the old ones" It feels great when your not a sheeple like the rest of them.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    Yeah, i would love to hear their arguments now. All that "but the traits are buffed 2x more so it equals the same" or "you'll actually be stronger with the new traits than the old ones" It feels great when your not a sheeple like the rest of them.

    I'll explain it. They might have figured out they were compounding the runaway crits problem we have, so they dialed them down just a bit. The reputations as they are are still a vapers wet dream. More crits, more one shot kills.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    I'll explain it. They might have figured out they were compounding the runaway crits problem we have, so they dialed them down just a bit. The reputations as they are are still a vapers wet dream. More crits, more one shot kills.

    If you look at the list of change. They are hitting more then the ctrld or ctrlh buffs. They are going across the board. So instead of the 50% boost to all passive traits, you might get a total of 5% basically down 45% percent they mentioned in the Dev Blog plus the 50% they took off by making the passives 4/4/4.

    So basically, everyone is screwed. The supporters of 4/4/4 is actually getting a lot less buffs then promised.
  • architect13architect13 Member Posts: 1,076 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Lol.

    So Cryptic decided to decrease passive skills 50% and then nerf the buffs they said they will do.

    Nice. So, all the people who was saying 4/4/4 is good. You actually going lose out half your passive skills with no real benefit.

    Never saw that happening :rolleyes:
    Have you tried the new forum on your phone?
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Nice. So, all the people who was saying 4/4/4 is good. You actually going lose out half your passive skills with no real benefit.

    And the problem is? Also I'd consider the ability to switch powers a definite benefit.

    Power creep due to reputation is getting curtailed and we're getting greater customizability. For me that's a huge plus and one of the best things about season 9 so far.
    The traits we have now on holodeck, with exception of one, are not overpowered, they are perfectly balance and have a subtle but noticable effect, just as how it should be.

    Being able to heal 1000 shield hp every 6 seconds is hardly subtle. Nor are the crit chance and damage boosting rep powers, which are greater than some equippable consoles. As for Sensor Targeting Assault, that one is hilarious.
    Previously Alendiak
    Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
    Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    After multiple threads, thousands of comments and a few dozen sarcastic remarks, one question remains unanswered.

    How on gods green earth did cryptic not see this "power creep" coming when they introduced the first rep? When they probably knew it would lead to others being implemented.

    I for one don't agree with the reputation being turned on its head. But that's just my opinion, in the short term based around the reps we've currently got access to and I'm not including the Undine rep in this. The changes do nothing to alter things a great deal. People have tested this and the results are well known. I can only hope that with cryptics apparent short sightedness in these matters that in their stumbling around they don't create even more problems down the line.
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • schmedickeschmedicke Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I understand why you are doing this and I don't debate the reasoning. However going 4/4/4 is going to kill certain reps. Not going 8/8/4 will shoot yourself in the foot. It alows the vet fan base to remain happy and for future passives to be modestly different. Subtle power tweaks. Rather than making some future 4/4/4 power op and causing a huge unbalance and emergency nerf. Mark my words if you go 4/4/4 like cryptic is so die hard for it will happen. Not to mention the advent of a C-Store 5/5/5, if they follow their wallets. 8/8/4 offers better long term solutions and custumisation than 4/4/4. Please for the sake of the game go 8/8/4.
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Lol.

    So Cryptic decided to decrease passive skills 50% and then nerf the buffs they said they will do.

    Nice. So, all the people who was saying 4/4/4 is good. You actually going lose out half your passive skills with no real benefit.
    They are the only one that matter anyway. Even if they were just like before the change, they would still be the only that count. The others are situational, pvp, or average at best.

    When you can reach 30k+ DPS with a scimitard and 25%+ critical hit, you really doesn't care about a perk that give you more resistance when your hull is almost gone, or a small shield heal when you are critically hit. However, more critical and damage is always welcome to makes things melt faster.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    erei1 wrote: »
    They are the only one that matter anyway. Even if they were just like before the change, they would still be the only that count. The others are situational, pvp, or average at best.

    When you can reach 30k+ DPS with a scimitard and 25%+ critical hit, you really doesn't care about a perk that give you more resistance when your hull is almost gone, or a small shield heal when you are critically hit. However, more critical and damage is always welcome to makes things melt faster.

    I blown up a lot of Scimitars because of that type of thinking. Although my Ha'feh class does not hit 30k dps. It hits about 20k dps but there is a major influence on shielding, and hull passive buffs. So, if they decide to do a 1vs1 fight like the old wild west. I can easily blow up the Scimitar.

    This revamp takes away that advantage and gives the Scimitars increased damage including any other high DPS ship on STO. To me that's a sigificant loss. I do only Elite STF's and PVP. So, I regularly go against ships that could do 30k dps to 50k dps.
  • colonelchenchuancolonelchenchuan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    After playing around with it. I just have to say if this system has been in place from the get-go, I likely would not have bothered grinding out most of the rep
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    schmedicke wrote: »
    I understand why you are doing this and I don't debate the reasoning. However going 4/4/4 is going to kill certain reps. Not going 8/8/4 will shoot yourself in the foot. It alows the vet fan base to remain happy and for future passives to be modestly different. Subtle power tweaks. Rather than making some future 4/4/4 power op and causing a huge unbalance and emergency nerf. Mark my words if you go 4/4/4 like cryptic is so die hard for it will happen. Not to mention the advent of a C-Store 5/5/5, if they follow their wallets. 8/8/4 offers better long term solutions and custumisation than 4/4/4. Please for the sake of the game go 8/8/4.

    Which reputations are going to be killed, in your opinion?

    Maybe these reputations just need some help? A buff, a different set item? Or are just reputation abilities just too much of a no-brainer and need further adjustment?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • colonelchenchuancolonelchenchuan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    treking2 wrote: »
    The point I would like to bring up is not what the absolute cap on this power or that power should be, but rather all of the time, effort, and money that has already gone into bringing several level 50 toons up to tier 5 in each of the existing rep systems, now seemingly for naught.

    With the 4/4/4 change, not all of the current powers that have been paid for with time, effort, and energy credits will be able to be used together. I see nothing that addresses this in the form of compensation for those who only did the reps to get the current combination of powers, which will no longer be available.

    I also see nothing in the form of compensation for those who spent real money (Zen) on respec tokens which are being made obsolete by these changes.

    I do not have an objection to revamping the game from time to time. However if the major goal is to prevent future power creep, then it should be done in a way that does not penalize existing players who have devoted enormous time, resources, and money into the current system. If you wish to place hard caps at existing levels, then when you add new content, do not be surprised of those who have already reached the cap do not play your new content. If you wish to just place new caps at lower levels than before, without any form of compensation for those who lived within the rules of the older system, then that is just unconscionable.

    It has nothing to do with resistance to learning something new for an existing toon, and everything to do with the time, effort, credits, and money that has already been put into those toons, which is being made obsolete at the whim of a new development system.

    Constructive criticism is welcome. [Trolls are not.] :-)

    this is kind of how SW The Old Republic lost me --- and its FTP as well. They added "new levels and content" and "revamped skills" which was just more or less them taking away skills I had already grinded, making me buy an "expansion" and then grinding out more levels just to get back to where I was before the changes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Edit: I take back back my agreement with the other players! Please nerf the hell out of it!
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I blown up a lot of Scimitars because of that type of thinking. Although my Ha'feh class does not hit 30k dps. It hits about 20k dps but there is a major influence on shielding, and hull passive buffs. So, if they decide to do a 1vs1 fight like the old wild west. I can easily blow up the Scimitar.

    This revamp takes away that advantage and gives the Scimitars increased damage including any other high DPS ship on STO. To me that's a sigificant loss. I do only Elite STF's and PVP. So, I regularly go against ships that could do 30k dps to 50k dps.
    I'm sorry, I forget to say I was speaking PVE.

    Didn't know some people were still thinking PVP is the main focus of this game.


    As for PVP, the only removal that may help is the jamming passive from the rom rep. Other than that, powers are the same and made better. More DPS with the crit, more shield penetration, and more shield/hull.

    But then, it's STO pvp.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Honestly, taking things away from players that they worked hard to earn is never ever a good thing.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    That's like going to pizza hut

    Analogies on the internet are bad. Very bad.

    "No matter what the analogy is, any attempt to use analogy, simile, metaphor, or any other lofty rhetorical technique in a debate being conducted on the Internet is doomed to end badly. No matter how carefully you set up your analogy, somebody will come along and interpret it in the most stupidly literal way possible, find some tiny point where it fails to correspond perfectly with the actual topic of discussion, and decide that this disagreement is an utterly devastating counter-argument to whatever point you were trying to make.If the topic is anything remotely controversial, like religion or politics, tens of somebodys will jump on the stupidly literal interpretation, and arguments about the validity of the analogy will come to totally dominate the discussion."

    I highly recommend avoiding them. I understand the temptation. But over the years, I've found avoiding them to be the best course of action. You can make your point just fine without bringing Pizza Hut into the conversation.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    You can make your point just fine without bringing Pizza Hut into the conversation.
    what do you have against Pizza Hut?
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    what do you have against Pizza Hut?
    that should've been 'what's your beef with Pizza Hut?'

    fits in much better with that running gag here on the forums
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

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    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


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    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
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  • doublechadoublecha Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    That's pretty much my thinking on the matter. We could leave it at 8/8/4 with tons of weak powers, but each individual power would be very marginal in terms of its impact, and would feel really unsatisfying to use. I know a number of players have echoed both the "leave us with 8/8/4 " and the "4/4/4 is fine" sentiments, and in this case I just know from experience with similar game systems that 4/4/4 will make for much more interesting and satisfying choices over the long haul.

    Yes, it's unpleasant to lose the use of powers. We know that, and we wish we'd launched with the system built for the scalability we desired from it. That's definitely a big takeaway here for us. But in terms of the system we're making here, 4/4/4 is the better design.

    I do not agree with Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton Systems Designer.
    I'm team leader and for short haul, I've many players who have stopped playing because new reputation system.
    They do not want to lose that they have struggled to gain and I know another fleet,now they are all playing to another game.
    Qapla'
  • schmedickeschmedicke Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Reps are going 4/4/4, I guess this is Cryptic's version of Obama-care.
  • atlantraatlantra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I was an hardcore STO player... Not anymore. Working to acquire good stuff for it to be taken away is not something I wanna be a part of... I'll still play STO, but it will be secondary or tertiary on my list, AKA not a priority anymore.

    Too many radical changes, makes the game seem unstable in my opinion.
    The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • coffeemikecoffeemike Member Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    This isn't live yet... thank goodness! We had to rally for the reversal of the T4 Nukara aux power offensive change they did that gimped sci powers.

    We definitely need to rally around this one...

    I prefer this solution myself from neok182:

    -8 Space, 8 Ground, 4 Actives.
    -traits stay as they currently are on holodeck, no buffs

    This keeps things exactly as they are and those who have finished all 4 reps are not punished but also stops people from gaining any new powers making them too powerful.

    But to add to it- the new Species 8472 rep system, when completed to Tier V, will NOT give you an extra +1 space & +1 ground slot. Players will have to choose what rep passive power they want to swap out for the ones in the new rep system.
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    IF we have to accept that we have less slots than now on holo i would recommend solution 2
    neok182 wrote: »



    2

    -6 Space, 6 Ground, 4 Actives.
    -Traits use the buffs with this, maybe 1.5x current levels instead of 2.0x.

    We lose 2 passives on both but gain the bonuses making up for it. makes losing the traits not as bad as we only lose 2 each instead of 4.

    .




    if this is still too much, i would still vote for gaining one slot per rep, so that now with the undine Rep it would be

    5 passive space, 5 passive ground and 5 active powers to choose from.

    it could also be as a reward for getting to T5 that you gain another slot for the rep. and dont please dont make it the way like you did with the active duty offs, no fleet purchasable slots for the rep.

    its still less than now. but would give the feeling that you can actually use at least one power per rep. instead of just being able to have nearly none of the wanted powers.



    my little humble fleet lost many players since the news of this and the activity dropped most players that worked daily on their rep to get all to T5 are now... stopping. as it isnt really paying off for them


    and the older ones like my that have all on T5 feel ripped. we worked hard. grinded much and completed this just to feel special and have a little bonus.. that really doesn't make any difference except in PvE.

    dont give us the feeling that all we worked for was nonsense.


    the most usefull ground power is gone anyways. the frequency passive... and now not even defera is fun as yu have to press that damned button far too often. and that is with the adapted maco. my second toon which desnt have adapted maco and jsut the little remodulator ... no fun. really no fun
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • urmuz1urmuz1 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    There are 5 reputations; so i think they should be 5/5 pasives for ground/space.
    Seems Cryptic is already testing non stacking for romulan BOffs
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1073221
    This is great news.
    I hope next step would be:

    1) plasmonic leech: from +1 to +0.5 all power setting - this console is heavily boosted by flow caps, a tier 1 skill
    2) shield absorptive frequency generator - heal down from 200% to 50% of damage they deal
    3) aux2bat tech doffs

    White Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 4%
    Green Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 5% (from 6%)
    Blue Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 6% (from 8%)
    Purple Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 7% (from 10%)

    We all know those changes are needed for balance.

    Cryptic, Make It So.
    Not an ARC user
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    urmuz1 wrote: »
    There are 5 reputations; so i think they should be 5/5 pasives for ground/space.
    Seems Cryptic is already testing non stacking for romulan BOffs
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1073221
    This is great news.
    I hope next step would be:

    1) plasmonic leech: from +1 to +0.5 all power setting - this console is heavily boosted by flow caps, a tier 1 skill
    2) shield absorptive frequency generator - heal down from 200% to 50% of damage they deal
    3) aux2bat tech doffs

    White Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 4%
    Green Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 5% (from 6%)
    Blue Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 6% (from 8%)
    Purple Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 7% (from 10%)

    We all know those changes are needed for balance.

    Cryptic, Make It So.

    1) A better modification would be to reduce the effectiveness of flow caps skill to 1/4th it's current effect.

    2) I'm not familiar enough with this to have an opinion.

    3) No. Unless you also nerf all the cooldown reduction doff options at the same time this simply heavily penalizes those who do not have them. Damage control engineer doffs are just as bad as are a particular Conn Officer. Either we accept the 'new' doff world with cool down reduction or we need to nerf most of them not just one or two. Furthermore perhaps Auxiliary power itself should be given a bit more, incentive, for players to care about it being above 5 and the bugs effecting the A2B boff ability should be fixed. Technician doff nerf only hurts those in the middle of the pack performance wise not the top end.
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