Clearly you don't have a clue how feedback and game development works.
No is never an absolute and is always open to change if there is a compelling enough reason for it.
Clearly you're new to Cryptic. Nothing significant will change between now and release.
Compelling reasons in games usually stem from player satisfaction.
And there is still plenty of time for changes to be made.
I'm satisfied and I know a lot of my friends are too. I'm not thinking of "on no, my ship is being nerfed!!!!" I'm thinking, "oh good, cryptic has a long term outlook for this game." This is a good change from last year's powercreep fest. With these changes cryptic can add to their heart's content and not worry so much about how this will inflate DPS. Also, I agree with Hawk, 4/4/4 will mean more potent passives, which means tougher choices. I like choices. It's what defined this game for a long while. I'm glad to have that aspect come back.
There hasn't been an overwhelming sense of dissatisfaction with the changes by any means though...go through the threads, it's the same small crowd over and over and over and over.
Other things, eh?
Like...what?
Watching TV, doing stuff outside since the weather is getting nice, playing GW2 or maybe Wildstar, y'know anything but play STO since there won't be anything for my level 50s to do or work towards.
I mean, I'll hop on to do DOFF stuff, and take part in events, but the days of spending hours grinding rep are done for me. Not that it's ever been all that fun, but I put up with it because I got something I perceived as useful, i.e., a stacking buff. Remove that incentive, no need to do it. Once you've done all the content, maxed out your commendations, have the ship and gear you like, what's left to do? Not much. I'll just pick the best 12 traits from the 20 I already have and call it day.
Watching TV, doing stuff outside since the weather is getting nice, playing GW2 or maybe Wildstar, y'know anything but play STO since there won't be anything for my level 50s to do or work towards.
I mean, I'll hop on to do DOFF stuff, and take part in events, but the days of spending hours grinding rep are done for me. Not that it's ever been all that fun, but I put up with it because I got something I perceived as useful, i.e., a stacking buff. Remove that incentive, no need to do it. Once you've done all the content, maxed out your commendations, have the ship and gear you like, what's left to do? Not much. I'll just pick the best 12 traits from the 20 I already have and call it day.
Ah, okay - cause the outside of STO thing stood out pretty well...it was just within STO, the Rep Grind Stuff is pretty much the ongoing content - that's all there is to do.
I'm satisfied and I know a lot of my friends are too. I'm not thinking of "on no, my ship is being nerfed!!!!" I'm thinking, "oh good, cryptic has a long term outlook for this game." This is a good change from last year's powercreep fest. With these changes cryptic can add to their heart's content and not worry so much about how this will inflate DPS. Also, I agree with Hawk, 4/4/4 will mean more potent passives, which means tougher choices. I like choices. It's what defined this game for a long while. I'm glad to have that aspect come back.
Could you please point me to the changes that actually reduce power creep? Did they nerf all of the unbalanced consoles? Did they nerf A2B builds? Did they remove the lockbox ships?
They did absolutely nothing to actually reduce power creep. What they did was put a small bandaid on a gunshot wound and called it a day.
Could you please point me to the changes that actually reduce power creep? Did they nerf all of the unbalanced consoles? Did they nerf A2B builds? Did they remove the lockbox ships?
They did absolutely nothing to actually reduce power creep. What they did was put a small bandaid on a gunshot wound and called it a day.
It also doesn't make choices "hard". It actually makes them very easy. You will use the 12 of the traits you already have and not bother grinding out for more because the benefit will be inconsequential as you'll have to remove something you're currently using to make room for something new. You will pick what you perceive as the best traits and never bother with anything else. Very easy choices.
For new characters that don't yet have 12 traits you'll grind out the reps that have gear you want and that's it. No need to do others as there is nothing substantial to gain in doing so.
Could you please point me to the changes that actually reduce power creep? Did they nerf all of the unbalanced consoles? Did they nerf A2B builds? Did they remove the lockbox ships?
They did absolutely nothing to actually reduce power creep. What they did was put a small bandaid on a gunshot wound and called it a day.
Four years from now, how many Rep Traits will you have with changes compared to how many Rep Passives you would have had? Any other questions?
The point I would like to bring up is not what the absolute cap on this power or that power should be, but rather all of the time, effort, and money that has already gone into bringing several level 50 toons up to tier 5 in each of the existing rep systems, now seemingly for naught.
With the 4/4/4 change, not all of the current powers that have been paid for with time, effort, and energy credits will be able to be used together. I see nothing that addresses this in the form of compensation for those who only did the reps to get the current combination of powers, which will no longer be available.
I also see nothing in the form of compensation for those who spent real money (Zen) on respec tokens which are being made obsolete by these changes.
I do not have an objection to revamping the game from time to time. However if the major goal is to prevent future power creep, then it should be done in a way that does not penalize existing players who have devoted enormous time, resources, and money into the current system. If you wish to place hard caps at existing levels, then when you add new content, do not be surprised of those who have already reached the cap do not play your new content. If you wish to just place new caps at lower levels than before, without any form of compensation for those who lived within the rules of the older system, then that is just unconscionable.
It has nothing to do with resistance to learning something new for an existing toon, and everything to do with the time, effort, credits, and money that has already been put into those toons, which is being made obsolete at the whim of a new development system.
Constructive criticism is welcome. [Trolls are not.] :-)
It also doesn't make choices "hard". It actually makes them very easy. You will use the 12 of the traits you already have and not bother grinding out for more because the benefit will be inconsequential as you'll have to remove something you're currently using to make room for something new. You will pick what you perceive as the best traits and never bother with anything else. Very easy choices.
For new characters that don't yet have 12 traits you'll grind out the reps that have gear you want and that's it. No need to do others as there is nothing substantial to gain in doing so.
So, you're saying in this post that you know how another player sees value in something? Who are you to dictate what another player can have or should have? Just because you may not see "substantial" value in something, it doesn't mean that everyone else will have the exact same viewpoint as you.
Also, the term "grinding" is subjective, and has many different meanings to it.
In my case, I will do all five of the reputations, not because I have to do them, it's because I want to do them. In terms of the choices, I will also change the traits around depending on any future situation that arises. So, you saying "you will pick what you perceive as the best traits and never bother with the rest" isn't exactly true at all. Some players may do exactly what you say, but not all players.
So, thanks for making the decision for me when you never had my permission to do so.
Stop letting them nerf you! Take a stand! Join with the movement, and passivley resist their attempts to slap the players in the face yet again. More info can be found here.
If you are going to take away reputation passives than they SHOULD be more powerful than all previous passives combined to make up for what you are taking away.
That's the big face slap right there. They're nerfing powers. Taking away everything people worked for. And not doing anything about it. Just nerf nerf nerf. With nothing to offset that nerf.
I will be honest, I haven't really ground for reputation but those passives were incentive too. Now they're gone.
Yeah, the incentive is all gone. It's time though to join together as a community to stop this. No more letting the devs nerf us! Stand up. And resist their tiny dev hands as they slap at the playerbase's face with nerfs!
Could you please point me to the changes that actually reduce power creep?
Yes, the reputation revampl
Did they erf all of the unbalanced consoles? Did they nerf A2B builds? Did they remove the nlockbox ships?
Unfortunately not. But at least they are starting somewhere.
You seem to be implying they are not serious about curtailing power creep. That is quite possible, they were bad about game balance and power creep in the past. But - what other rationale do you see for this change? Did they do it to TRIBBLE of people and stop people grinding for reputation, as some seem to imply is the main effect of the change?
I think that's unlikely. I think this is the first subsytem they look into for this, and they garner feedback. THey probably started here also because they are just in the process of introducing a new reputation system, so their programmers are already neck-deep into these systems - it makes sense to start where they are actually working on.
And if you think the rage is bad about this change - how do you think players will react to lockbox ships, duty officers or console powers being nerfed?
If they can't even get this change past their customers, you can forget about power creep ever being curtailed.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Constructive criticism is welcome. [Trolls are not.] :-)
Before Sponsorship, the cost was much more for alts than it was after Sponsorship.
With the changes to how Rep is leveled, the cost was much more for the first toon as well as for Sponsored alts than it was before the coming changes.
One could say, that regardless of how one feels about the changes to the Rep Passives -> Traits, that the entire system has "screwed" somebody over if they want to look at it that way.
With the change, it will be much cheaper for the first toon to T5 everything and that much cheaper for the Sponsored alts to T5 everything....
Throw in the possibility that folks can get their R-Tets and R-Plas for free from simply slotting a Rep project compared to folks that spent way too much Dil for them...
...and yeah, complaints about buffed Rep Passives/Traits, free respecs, and the rest - well - seems a wee bit quirky.
Before Sponsorship, the cost was much more for alts than it was after Sponsorship.
Throw in the possibility that folks can get their R-Tets and R-Plas for free from simply slotting a Rep project compared to folks that spent way too much Dil for them...
No one likes free gear, it seems.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
For those that are complaining from the angle of "what they did" compared to what somebody new will have to do...just seems like they would have been all over those things - rather than complaining about buffs to stuffs...
...complaints about buffed Rep Passives/Traits, free respecs, and the rest - well - seems a wee bit quirky.
I am sorry, but I fail to see how any of what you said relates to the main point of my post, namely "the time, effort, credits, and money that has already been put into [existing] toons, which is being made obsolete at the whim of a new development system."
When new "features" are added, they should at least take into account what people have already put into the game under the old system. If the old features can not co-exist with the new, then some form of compensation should be given.
I am sorry, but I fail to see how any of what you said relates to the main point of my post, namely "the time, effort, credits, and money that has already been put into [exiisting] toons, which is being made obsolete at the whim of a new development system."
Did people forget how to read today or something?
"the time, effort, credits, and money that has already been put into [existing] toons"
It took more time, effort, and resources before Sponsorship.
It's going to take less time, less effort, and less resources with the S9 launch.
That time, effort, credits, and money you mention...was all more for existing toons before Sponsorship was added and will be more until S9 launches - where it will be less.
Did you complain about the reduced overall costs with Sponsorship?
Are you complaining about reduced overall costs coming with S9?
When new "features" are added, they should at least take into account what people have already put into the game under the old system. If the old features can not co-exist with the new, then some form of compensation should be given.
You mean like buffing them? Oh wait, they did that.
You mean like making the trait respecs free? Oh wait, they did that.
So, you're saying in this post that you know how another player sees value in something? Who are you to dictate what another player can have or should have? Just because you may not see "substantial" value in something, it doesn't mean that everyone else will have the exact same viewpoint as you.
Also, the term "grinding" is subjective, and has many different meanings to it.
In my case, I will do all five of the reputations, not because I have to do them, it's because I want to do them. In terms of the choices, I will also change the traits around depending on any future situation that arises. So, you saying "you will pick what you perceive as the best traits and never bother with the rest" isn't exactly true at all. Some players may do exactly what you say, but not all players.
So, thanks for making the decision for me when you never had my permission to do so.
Well, if you choose to waste your time playing the same content over and over and over again for at least a month to gain traits that you either can't use, or must give up another trait in order to use, or to get gear that's no better (and likely worse), than what you already have, hey, no skin off my nose.
Cryptic your logic for leaving the system as 4/4/4 is still totally flawed, specially if you intend to continue to offer additional reputations in the future as a supplement for end game content. By your way of thinking then come season 10 or 11 and you decide to up the level cap in the game, what will you do then? Tell us that since we are getting new abilities we will have to pick and choose between our captains skills perhaps, choose either tac fleet or pattern alpha, or miracle worker vs rotate shield frequency, evasive maneuvers vs ramming speed. Cause that is exactly what will happen, not to mention that some abilities will always be better than others, there is no way to balance out one to be equal to the other.
Cause this is the prescedent that you are setting, the more content that you add the more you will need to remove and or nerf in the future. As it stands right now you really are leaving no incentive to do any additional reputations or missions. You have had nearly 300 pages of people asking you to NOT leave the changes to 4/4/4 yet you still cling to the thought that its the best solution to bring "balance" for the eventual future content that you will be putting in game. And how long then before we have 6,8,10 reputations and can only choose 4 powers from the total pool. That is just PATHETIC. Look at the way you did recial traits, we gained additional traits as we leveled, then why don't you do the same for the reps. It has been suggested many times that to incentivize leveling a reputation for you to add a +1 space, +1 ground passive for every rep that you get to tier 5, has this option not been considered at all ???
As it stands right now if you do it as it has been suggested we would have the 4/4/4/ to start, make it so that once a rep is unlocked or open player gain 4/4 passives, when reaching tier 5 they gain 1 active and additional passive for each ground and space. and make it so that you gain an additional active every other rep so when the 6th reputation comes out we gain 1 additional active power slot, then at the 8th, 10th etc. or even cap it at 5 actives.
Another point to bring up is the fact that actives do not have a limitation on choosing both space and ground, granted the lack of actives limits this particular issue, but now you are making it so that we can chance racial traits on the fly as well, since we can choose to focus our passives all for space or all for ground, why not let us do the same for our reputation traits?? some players love doing space other love doing ground and they pour everything into that particular area, I am sure that this accessibility would go a long way to easing the issues with the reputation at the moment.
I hope that you take into consideration that the changes you are doing do not benefit the player base as much as you think they do and that they do not provide the balance that you think they will. There are a lot more players against the changes you have put into effect than the ones that agree with you. But some changes are needed maybe not such drastic ones as what you have already done. There are some really great ideas floating around to compromise the changes you did to better "balance" incoming future content. I really hope you look at it more closely.
Free gear is only likeable if it's something you're actually going to use. Otherwise it's meaningless. They can shower me with "free" polaron weapons, but since I do not use polaron weapons it's not worth wasting my time to acquire.
Now maybe if I could trade them, or sell the more rare ones on the exchange it might be a different story, because at least then I could get something useful from it. But as it stands now they are nothing more than vendor trash.
Well, if you choose to waste your time playing the same content over and over and over again for at least a month to gain traits that you either can't use, or must give up another trait in order to use, or to get gear that's no better (and likely worse), than what you already have, hey, no skin off my nose.
Does one player in the game play the game just to satisfy another player's expectations of how they should play? No, they don't. Every player has his or her reasons, and no other player has any right to dictate how they should play or vice versa.
I don't consider doing the reputations as a "waste of time" at all. I just do them very slowly since they're not a priority for me, hence the reason why I want to do them.
Also, the gear may be worse than what is out there, but that shouldn't stop a player from getting the gear, even if it irks other players in the process.
On the point about the traits, you do know that you can change them for free any time you're out of combat (There will be some restrictions if you do this as a Romulan in a warbird which is what should have happened when the changes were announced).
I am not going to play this game to satisfy someone's absurd notion of how I should play this game, and I don't care about "builds" or anything like that. I play this game because it's a fun game, and having to think about what build to use is counter to the game being fun.
Unfortunately not. But at least they are starting somewhere.
You seem to be implying they are not serious about curtailing power creep. That is quite possible, they were bad about game balance and power creep in the past. But - what other rationale do you see for this change? Did they do it to TRIBBLE of people and stop people grinding for reputation, as some seem to imply is the main effect of the change?
I think that's unlikely. I think this is the first subsytem they look into for this, and they garner feedback. THey probably started here also because they are just in the process of introducing a new reputation system, so their programmers are already neck-deep into these systems - it makes sense to start where they are actually working on.
And if you think the rage is bad about this change - how do you think players will react to lockbox ships, duty officers or console powers being nerfed?
If they can't even get this change past their customers, you can forget about power creep ever being curtailed.
You and I will have to disagree on the rep system change doing something to affect power creep. I'm doing more DPS on Tribble under the new system than the old, so I don't think it is helping anything in that regard.
I think they chose the rep system because people pay real money for the lockbox ships, consoles and doffs. This change had the least direct impact on their revenue streams. The real sources of power creep are their money-makers, and I don't see them ever touching them.
If they had kept everything at 8/8/4 so no one who had ground out the reps lost anything, and moved forward with the slotting rep traits, I don't think the rage would be so bad.
Does one player in the game play the game just to satisfy another player's expectations of how they should play? No, they don't. Every player has his or her reasons, and no other player has any right to dictate how they should play or vice versa.
I don't consider doing the reputations as a "waste of time" at all. I just do them very slowly since they're not a priority for me, hence the reason why I want to do them.
Also, the gear may be worse than what is out there, but that shouldn't stop a player from getting the gear, even if it irks other players in the process.
On the point about the traits, you do know that you can change them for free any time you're out of combat (There will be some restrictions if you do this as a Romulan in a warbird which is what should have happened when the changes were announced).
I am not going to play this game to satisfy someone's absurd notion of how I should play this game, and I don't care about "builds" or anything like that. I play this game because it's a fun game, and having to think about what build to use is counter to the game being fun.
And this is the exact same reason I play, to have fun. But I don't consider grinding content fun, especially when the rewards are severely lacking. When this becomes the case I will have less incentive to play because for me it will no longer be fun. Really, this isn't a difficult concept to understand.
If it's all fun to you, hey that's great. But what's fun for you is not necessarily fun for others. So thank you for presuming that everyone thinks like you, and making the decision for me that I must grind rep and that I must find it fun despite the only possible rewards being gear I don't want and passives I am likely to never use.
Cause yeah, nothing says "FUN" to me like taking time between every mission to sort thru a list of passives to choose the 8 that I think are going to best for what I'm preparing to do. Do you do this with your DOFFs? Go thru them before every mission and swap them around, scrolling thru a list of dozens, possibly hundreds, looking for the 10 you want? Or do you just pick the ones you think are going to be the most useful and roll with it?
I think they chose the rep system because people pay real money for the lockbox ships, consoles and doffs. This change had the least direct impact on their revenue streams. The real sources of power creep are their money-makers, and I don't see them ever touching them.
This. The disparity in power level between a virgin level 50 and one that's decked out in c-store ships, consoles, rep gear, and rep passives comes mostly from the ships and the consoles, not the rep stuff. So saying you're trying to address this disparity by taking a sledgehammer to the rep system is disingenuous at best, outright lying at worst. While I can appreciate the notion that continuing to give out powers for each new reputation will at some point become unwieldy, the simple solution is to not give out powers in new reps and replace them with something equally as unique and desirable. This solves the power creep you claim you're trying to address, and do it without gutting the existing system, pissing off a lot of people, and forever negatively altering the endgame experience.
Cause the only other option is to adjust the balance of power between the free ships/consoles and the c-store ones. And we know that's NEVER going to happen.
You and I will have to disagree on the rep system change doing something to affect power creep. I'm doing more DPS on Tribble under the new system than the old, so I don't think it is helping anything in that regard.
Wait, what is this madness?
You're saying that this NERF has buffed your Deeps?
What the heck kind of slap in the face is that? Cryptic can't even nerf people properly?
Is this for real? You're doing more DPS on Tribble, after the nerf? How? How is that possible?
What was their reasoning behind not starting the new system at 8/8/4?
Because they want us to have 4 "really good" powers in each instead of 8 "mediocre" ones. The reality is they will still be mediocre even after getting buffed, so it really doesn't make much sense.
This. The disparity in power level between a virgin level 50 and one that's decked out in c-store ships, consoles, rep gear, and rep passives comes mostly from the ships and the consoles, not the rep stuff. So saying you're trying to address this disparity by taking a sledgehammer to the rep system is disingenuous at best, outright lying at worst.
I'm on board with outright lying. They've done that so often in the past. So it fits their Modus Operandi, so to speak. This is almost as bad as that time they had no cups in the kitchen and they forced Gozer to post about how Section 31 uniforms counted as creating "new content."
Almost. As bad.
While I can appreciate the notion that continuing to give out powers for each new reputation will at some point become unwieldy,
You're crazy. It's not going to become unwieldy. How? How would it ever become unwieldy? It's just more lies from the devs. The system works perfect right now as is. I see no way whatsoever for it to become anything other than what it is right now. A grind for a reward. I really don't see what you mean about becoming unwieldy. You'll have to clarify that.
the simple solution is to not give out powers in new reps and replace them with something equally as unique and desirable. This solves the power creep you claim you're trying to address, and do it without gutting the existing system, pissing off a lot of people, and forever negatively altering the endgame experience.
Wait, the incentive I have IS for those powers. And you advocate getting rid of them? No more powers? What the? But, why would I bother without passives to grind for? You say something equally unique and desirable? Like what? And if it's desirable it's desirable because it offers more power, so how's that affect power creep? Your solution confuses me. You want to remove the incentives I like and put in other incentives that are going to give me more power anyways?
It means that powers will have to be pretty damn good to be worth using, which runs a huge risk of them being Overpowered.
The traits we have now on holodeck, with exception of one, are not overpowered, they are perfectly balance and have a subtle but noticable effect, just as how it should be.
8/8/4 is the only reasonable option on every point.
Comments
Clearly you're new to Cryptic. Nothing significant will change between now and release.
I'm satisfied and I know a lot of my friends are too. I'm not thinking of "on no, my ship is being nerfed!!!!" I'm thinking, "oh good, cryptic has a long term outlook for this game." This is a good change from last year's powercreep fest. With these changes cryptic can add to their heart's content and not worry so much about how this will inflate DPS. Also, I agree with Hawk, 4/4/4 will mean more potent passives, which means tougher choices. I like choices. It's what defined this game for a long while. I'm glad to have that aspect come back.
Watching TV, doing stuff outside since the weather is getting nice, playing GW2 or maybe Wildstar, y'know anything but play STO since there won't be anything for my level 50s to do or work towards.
I mean, I'll hop on to do DOFF stuff, and take part in events, but the days of spending hours grinding rep are done for me. Not that it's ever been all that fun, but I put up with it because I got something I perceived as useful, i.e., a stacking buff. Remove that incentive, no need to do it. Once you've done all the content, maxed out your commendations, have the ship and gear you like, what's left to do? Not much. I'll just pick the best 12 traits from the 20 I already have and call it day.
Ah, okay - cause the outside of STO thing stood out pretty well...it was just within STO, the Rep Grind Stuff is pretty much the ongoing content - that's all there is to do.
Could you please point me to the changes that actually reduce power creep? Did they nerf all of the unbalanced consoles? Did they nerf A2B builds? Did they remove the lockbox ships?
They did absolutely nothing to actually reduce power creep. What they did was put a small bandaid on a gunshot wound and called it a day.
It also doesn't make choices "hard". It actually makes them very easy. You will use the 12 of the traits you already have and not bother grinding out for more because the benefit will be inconsequential as you'll have to remove something you're currently using to make room for something new. You will pick what you perceive as the best traits and never bother with anything else. Very easy choices.
For new characters that don't yet have 12 traits you'll grind out the reps that have gear you want and that's it. No need to do others as there is nothing substantial to gain in doing so.
Four years from now, how many Rep Traits will you have with changes compared to how many Rep Passives you would have had? Any other questions?
With the 4/4/4 change, not all of the current powers that have been paid for with time, effort, and energy credits will be able to be used together. I see nothing that addresses this in the form of compensation for those who only did the reps to get the current combination of powers, which will no longer be available.
I also see nothing in the form of compensation for those who spent real money (Zen) on respec tokens which are being made obsolete by these changes.
I do not have an objection to revamping the game from time to time. However if the major goal is to prevent future power creep, then it should be done in a way that does not penalize existing players who have devoted enormous time, resources, and money into the current system. If you wish to place hard caps at existing levels, then when you add new content, do not be surprised of those who have already reached the cap do not play your new content. If you wish to just place new caps at lower levels than before, without any form of compensation for those who lived within the rules of the older system, then that is just unconscionable.
It has nothing to do with resistance to learning something new for an existing toon, and everything to do with the time, effort, credits, and money that has already been put into those toons, which is being made obsolete at the whim of a new development system.
Constructive criticism is welcome. [Trolls are not.] :-)
Also, the term "grinding" is subjective, and has many different meanings to it.
In my case, I will do all five of the reputations, not because I have to do them, it's because I want to do them. In terms of the choices, I will also change the traits around depending on any future situation that arises. So, you saying "you will pick what you perceive as the best traits and never bother with the rest" isn't exactly true at all. Some players may do exactly what you say, but not all players.
So, thanks for making the decision for me when you never had my permission to do so.
Stop letting them nerf you! Take a stand! Join with the movement, and passivley resist their attempts to slap the players in the face yet again. More info can be found here.
That's the big face slap right there. They're nerfing powers. Taking away everything people worked for. And not doing anything about it. Just nerf nerf nerf. With nothing to offset that nerf.
Yeah, the incentive is all gone. It's time though to join together as a community to stop this. No more letting the devs nerf us! Stand up. And resist their tiny dev hands as they slap at the playerbase's face with nerfs!
Unfortunately not. But at least they are starting somewhere.
You seem to be implying they are not serious about curtailing power creep. That is quite possible, they were bad about game balance and power creep in the past. But - what other rationale do you see for this change? Did they do it to TRIBBLE of people and stop people grinding for reputation, as some seem to imply is the main effect of the change?
I think that's unlikely. I think this is the first subsytem they look into for this, and they garner feedback. THey probably started here also because they are just in the process of introducing a new reputation system, so their programmers are already neck-deep into these systems - it makes sense to start where they are actually working on.
And if you think the rage is bad about this change - how do you think players will react to lockbox ships, duty officers or console powers being nerfed?
If they can't even get this change past their customers, you can forget about power creep ever being curtailed.
Before Sponsorship, the cost was much more for alts than it was after Sponsorship.
With the changes to how Rep is leveled, the cost was much more for the first toon as well as for Sponsored alts than it was before the coming changes.
One could say, that regardless of how one feels about the changes to the Rep Passives -> Traits, that the entire system has "screwed" somebody over if they want to look at it that way.
With the change, it will be much cheaper for the first toon to T5 everything and that much cheaper for the Sponsored alts to T5 everything....
Throw in the possibility that folks can get their R-Tets and R-Plas for free from simply slotting a Rep project compared to folks that spent way too much Dil for them...
...and yeah, complaints about buffed Rep Passives/Traits, free respecs, and the rest - well - seems a wee bit quirky.
For those that are complaining from the angle of "what they did" compared to what somebody new will have to do...just seems like they would have been all over those things - rather than complaining about buffs to stuffs...
I am sorry, but I fail to see how any of what you said relates to the main point of my post, namely "the time, effort, credits, and money that has already been put into [existing] toons, which is being made obsolete at the whim of a new development system."
When new "features" are added, they should at least take into account what people have already put into the game under the old system. If the old features can not co-exist with the new, then some form of compensation should be given.
Did people forget how to read today or something?
"the time, effort, credits, and money that has already been put into [existing] toons"
It took more time, effort, and resources before Sponsorship.
It's going to take less time, less effort, and less resources with the S9 launch.
That time, effort, credits, and money you mention...was all more for existing toons before Sponsorship was added and will be more until S9 launches - where it will be less.
Did you complain about the reduced overall costs with Sponsorship?
Are you complaining about reduced overall costs coming with S9?
You mean like buffing them? Oh wait, they did that.
You mean like making the trait respecs free? Oh wait, they did that.
Well, if you choose to waste your time playing the same content over and over and over again for at least a month to gain traits that you either can't use, or must give up another trait in order to use, or to get gear that's no better (and likely worse), than what you already have, hey, no skin off my nose.
Cause this is the prescedent that you are setting, the more content that you add the more you will need to remove and or nerf in the future. As it stands right now you really are leaving no incentive to do any additional reputations or missions. You have had nearly 300 pages of people asking you to NOT leave the changes to 4/4/4 yet you still cling to the thought that its the best solution to bring "balance" for the eventual future content that you will be putting in game. And how long then before we have 6,8,10 reputations and can only choose 4 powers from the total pool. That is just PATHETIC. Look at the way you did recial traits, we gained additional traits as we leveled, then why don't you do the same for the reps. It has been suggested many times that to incentivize leveling a reputation for you to add a +1 space, +1 ground passive for every rep that you get to tier 5, has this option not been considered at all ???
As it stands right now if you do it as it has been suggested we would have the 4/4/4/ to start, make it so that once a rep is unlocked or open player gain 4/4 passives, when reaching tier 5 they gain 1 active and additional passive for each ground and space. and make it so that you gain an additional active every other rep so when the 6th reputation comes out we gain 1 additional active power slot, then at the 8th, 10th etc. or even cap it at 5 actives.
Another point to bring up is the fact that actives do not have a limitation on choosing both space and ground, granted the lack of actives limits this particular issue, but now you are making it so that we can chance racial traits on the fly as well, since we can choose to focus our passives all for space or all for ground, why not let us do the same for our reputation traits?? some players love doing space other love doing ground and they pour everything into that particular area, I am sure that this accessibility would go a long way to easing the issues with the reputation at the moment.
I hope that you take into consideration that the changes you are doing do not benefit the player base as much as you think they do and that they do not provide the balance that you think they will. There are a lot more players against the changes you have put into effect than the ones that agree with you. But some changes are needed maybe not such drastic ones as what you have already done. There are some really great ideas floating around to compromise the changes you did to better "balance" incoming future content. I really hope you look at it more closely.
Free gear is only likeable if it's something you're actually going to use. Otherwise it's meaningless. They can shower me with "free" polaron weapons, but since I do not use polaron weapons it's not worth wasting my time to acquire.
Now maybe if I could trade them, or sell the more rare ones on the exchange it might be a different story, because at least then I could get something useful from it. But as it stands now they are nothing more than vendor trash.
I don't consider doing the reputations as a "waste of time" at all. I just do them very slowly since they're not a priority for me, hence the reason why I want to do them.
Also, the gear may be worse than what is out there, but that shouldn't stop a player from getting the gear, even if it irks other players in the process.
On the point about the traits, you do know that you can change them for free any time you're out of combat (There will be some restrictions if you do this as a Romulan in a warbird which is what should have happened when the changes were announced).
I am not going to play this game to satisfy someone's absurd notion of how I should play this game, and I don't care about "builds" or anything like that. I play this game because it's a fun game, and having to think about what build to use is counter to the game being fun.
You and I will have to disagree on the rep system change doing something to affect power creep. I'm doing more DPS on Tribble under the new system than the old, so I don't think it is helping anything in that regard.
I think they chose the rep system because people pay real money for the lockbox ships, consoles and doffs. This change had the least direct impact on their revenue streams. The real sources of power creep are their money-makers, and I don't see them ever touching them.
If they had kept everything at 8/8/4 so no one who had ground out the reps lost anything, and moved forward with the slotting rep traits, I don't think the rage would be so bad.
And this is the exact same reason I play, to have fun. But I don't consider grinding content fun, especially when the rewards are severely lacking. When this becomes the case I will have less incentive to play because for me it will no longer be fun. Really, this isn't a difficult concept to understand.
If it's all fun to you, hey that's great. But what's fun for you is not necessarily fun for others. So thank you for presuming that everyone thinks like you, and making the decision for me that I must grind rep and that I must find it fun despite the only possible rewards being gear I don't want and passives I am likely to never use.
Cause yeah, nothing says "FUN" to me like taking time between every mission to sort thru a list of passives to choose the 8 that I think are going to best for what I'm preparing to do. Do you do this with your DOFFs? Go thru them before every mission and swap them around, scrolling thru a list of dozens, possibly hundreds, looking for the 10 you want? Or do you just pick the ones you think are going to be the most useful and roll with it?
I disagree. Free gear that I'm not going to use can be sold for ECs which I do eventually use.
This. The disparity in power level between a virgin level 50 and one that's decked out in c-store ships, consoles, rep gear, and rep passives comes mostly from the ships and the consoles, not the rep stuff. So saying you're trying to address this disparity by taking a sledgehammer to the rep system is disingenuous at best, outright lying at worst. While I can appreciate the notion that continuing to give out powers for each new reputation will at some point become unwieldy, the simple solution is to not give out powers in new reps and replace them with something equally as unique and desirable. This solves the power creep you claim you're trying to address, and do it without gutting the existing system, pissing off a lot of people, and forever negatively altering the endgame experience.
Cause the only other option is to adjust the balance of power between the free ships/consoles and the c-store ones. And we know that's NEVER going to happen.
Wait, what is this madness?
You're saying that this NERF has buffed your Deeps?
What the heck kind of slap in the face is that? Cryptic can't even nerf people properly?
Is this for real? You're doing more DPS on Tribble, after the nerf? How? How is that possible?
Because they want us to have 4 "really good" powers in each instead of 8 "mediocre" ones. The reality is they will still be mediocre even after getting buffed, so it really doesn't make much sense.
I'm on board with outright lying. They've done that so often in the past. So it fits their Modus Operandi, so to speak. This is almost as bad as that time they had no cups in the kitchen and they forced Gozer to post about how Section 31 uniforms counted as creating "new content."
Almost. As bad.
You're crazy. It's not going to become unwieldy. How? How would it ever become unwieldy? It's just more lies from the devs. The system works perfect right now as is. I see no way whatsoever for it to become anything other than what it is right now. A grind for a reward. I really don't see what you mean about becoming unwieldy. You'll have to clarify that.
Wait, the incentive I have IS for those powers. And you advocate getting rid of them? No more powers? What the? But, why would I bother without passives to grind for? You say something equally unique and desirable? Like what? And if it's desirable it's desirable because it offers more power, so how's that affect power creep? Your solution confuses me. You want to remove the incentives I like and put in other incentives that are going to give me more power anyways?
Are you a cryptic dev in disguise?
They've said they'll be tweaking some of it...cause yeah, lol - it was kind of a trip.
It means that powers will have to be pretty damn good to be worth using, which runs a huge risk of them being Overpowered.
The traits we have now on holodeck, with exception of one, are not overpowered, they are perfectly balance and have a subtle but noticable effect, just as how it should be.
8/8/4 is the only reasonable option on every point.