I know I'm late to the party here, but I seem to recall grinding my rear end off for all those passives. Seems to me that if the discrepancy between new level 50s and veteran 50s is so unequal, then those new Vice-Admirals can grind their rears off as well.
That being said, I hope to remain cautiously optimistic about these changes.
Life isn't fair, I don't buy my ships, in fact I only have the TSV because it was given to me as a birthday gift last year, do I begrudge the others who have better gear than me because they have better gear than me? No I don't, nor do I begrudge them at all, why should I? They are the ones that spent their hard-earned money on this stuff, so why should I be upset at them for having better gear? I shouldn't, and neither should you
We will never agree obviously on this one... and that is fine we don't have to. We can both state our positions and Cryptic will do what Cryptic will do.
Just for the recored though I have 16 toons... they are all done with the rep. (well ok there might be one or two of my alts at tier 4 instead of 5).
I have EVERY lockbox ship. More then that I have mulitiples. I have at least 4 toons with galors. I have 2 or 3 elachi escorts... a couple of the cruisers. I have a Temporal science ship on I think everyone of my science toons (thats 6 or 7)... a couple temp destroyers. A couple bugs now. I have at least one lockbox ship on everyone of my toons... and I won't even count the number of fleet ships I have.
Point is... I'm not pointing at anyone saying he has and its NO fair. lol
I take it your view on this change has...'evolved'
No like snoggymack just stated.
Right now this is pretty much a wash... boosting both the MAX and the MIN on some min max builds right now....
However Rep number 5 is coming at the same time... and we will never play a game where people could have ALL 8 we have now in combo with the 2 new ones from Undine Rep.
After Undine there will be another and another and another rep system... you can count on it.
So as I said in the first one you quoted.... 2 years from now when we have 10+ reps something like this will HAVE to be in place.
I think I see your point I just don't think the current system of unlimited power creep is good. Cryptic knows its not good... its bad design... and in the end will lead to a dead game. Simple as that, if you don't like playing with other people it won't effect you much until the server shuts down I guess.
If I sounded harsh in my last response I apologize I enjoy a good argument, I wouldn't call that "fighting" we can argue and disagree and still remain Trek brothers from a different mother. lol
I enjoy playing my toons that are maxed out... I have way to much rep marks and stuff on a few of the toons I have the most fun with... but I don't play the content anymore to progress... I do it (well ok I admit I do less and less lately) cause I find it fun.
In any event, not up to me to tell you have to enjoy the game. If what you do is fun for you that is all that really matters right.
This new system though doesn't stop people from earning ALL the reps... and it doesn't NOT reward you for earning them either. Like in other MMOs the traits are now all UNLOCKS which you can choose to slot once, all the time, or never. Up to you and how you want to play. With this change they can keep putting more and more grinds that unlock new traits for you though and you can choose what to use when.
If you get to a point where your ship is perfect as you see it... and you still have a rep to do. You can complete it anyway for the satisfaction... just like you do when you go back and complete missions you didn't finish. Or you can even pick up another ship that might benifit from the new rep and have a second ship setup with different sets of traits activated.
a bit harsh, maybe yeah...but maybe i see your defence/argument in this change also the wrong way ^^
ok back to topic:
what i dont get is: why should limiting to 4 passives (f.e. only space) help the game balancing?
since i tried A2B is see, that a lot of passives can be quite a creep, but so PWE/Cyp has also the "blaance" FAW, Scatter Volley, Romulan Hyper Plasma + Scimitar with Scorpion hangar pets...
i thought all the time this game was about getting to the max, spending time in collecting all passives, all Accolades and so on...
if they/we are going that way... we need to cut a lot of things...and a lot of players will be really pissed off.
i think the dmg factor is not a bad thing, if you know how to use it as DEV.
f.e.:
why not making a borg stf like it is with following changes:
dmg is needed to kill a cube, BUT
- a sci ship can disable the shield around the cube in no time, where other ships need to wait a time (i mean the shield like in infected, it drops as soon as the cube and the 2 spheres are down)
- a engeneer can send a special team to destroy the gate at once...
in this example dmg dealing is still a option, but not the only one.
a sci gets more attentions, as also a eng..
so why is there still a need to limit powers?
i know a sicussion when the Kumari came on Store, everybody said...."meh... blody glass cannons", but soon everybody tac, eng and sci are/were flying one, because everyone tried to bring the kumari to its best. and dont tell me every passive will make this ship invinceble...
i dont think the matter is to limit passive rep powers, i think the matter is more of the very uncreative, cheeky way Pwe/cryp tryies to save their game without thinking
We will never agree obviously on this one... and that is fine we don't have to. We can both state our positions and Cryptic will do what Cryptic will do.
I have EVERY lockbox ship. More then that I have mulitiples. I have at least 4 toons with galors. I have 2 or 3 elachi escorts... a couple of the cruisers. I have a Temporal science ship on I think everyone of my science toons (thats 6 or 7)... a couple temp destroyers. A couple bugs now. I have at least one lockbox ship on everyone of my toons... and I won't even count the number of fleet ships I have.
<.< >.> >.<
Great... Another person with both Temporal Consoles XD something I have been trying to get XD. No sir, I am not begrudging you, in fact I have nothing but respect for you, since you have kept a very calm attitude with me, and I apologize if I had been rude at all, it is just I have been trying to get the Mobius console myself
Point is... I'm not pointing at anyone saying he has and its NO fair. lol
You might not be, but other are which is probably why this is happening, or at least PART of the reason why
We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
no idea why you are on about a sci ship as i never mentioned one, but SOME powers are getting buffed yes, but most arent getting buffed by "at least" half
Infact there are precisely TWO defensive powers you can claim have a 50% increase and the only one you could even argue to have over that would be the weapon offline proc, which you want to boost your crit for with the other powers anyway.
My apologize I must have mixed you up with another poster in regard to the science ship.
Honestly I would say if you don't like the passives NOW is your time to impress Cryptic with reasoans to buff them more.
They are likely pretty set on 4 active passives. I doubt they will back track on that.
However Hawk HAS Stated they are listening and if people believe they should further buff any of the passives to bring them up to snuff to speak up now. So speak up, what would you change and by how much ?
Hmmm, so that Scimitar with the Valdore console, properly min maxed will get a buff.
Tell me how that is not an utter contradiction of what Hawk was talking about when he mentioned the new VA versus the veteran VA.
Hawk is the one who explicitally posited this as an answer to power creep....now.
As a means to narrow the gap between new VAs and vet VAs.
The changes do nothing of the sort, as you have pointed out.
Those min maxed ships that Hawk was putting up against the new Va....they get an actual buff.
This is the opposite of what Hawk has explicitally said these changes are aimed at.
Again stop thinking about now... Devs don't make changes with out thinking 6 months down the road.
I agree this doesn't go far enough to fix the gap alone. To be honest I have no idea how they fix the shimitard build issue... short of a massive nerf to Rom Boffs. (which isn't a bad idea at all)
However it does stop it from getting any worse. There will be at least 6 reps 6 months from now. Hawk is thinking about that you can be sure.
I'm going to be perfectly honest with you, and say that I don't like this respecing my character without my permission.
I have spent a year building my customized character the way I want him, I like the skills I have chosen.
For you to arbitrarily go around make him a cookie cutter character, just like everyone else's is simply stupid.
My only Character is a Vice Admiral Tactical Offficer, who uses the Omega Weapons remodulation, the Distortion Field and Medical Nanite Cloud. That works for me, and I don't want them changed.
No two characters are the same, nor should they be. I have selected my powers for my characters background.
I don't fight PVE space or ground the same way that everyone else does. On ground, I'm a sniper, in space, I draw them in, then launch the cloaked tractor beam mines and Breen Transphasic Torpedo Cluster.
Respecing our character smacks of godmoding, and that will ruin the game.
Why would I want to have to go and redo every single Reputation level? That's just stupid as well.
If you want to give us better content, go ahead. But don't force a respec on us without our permission.
In my opinion, that's a good way to chase off your customer base.
We will never agree obviously on this one... and that is fine we don't have to. We can both state our positions and Cryptic will do what Cryptic will do.
Just for the recored though I have 16 toons... they are all done with the rep. (well ok there might be one or two of my alts at tier 4 instead of 5).
I have EVERY lockbox ship. More then that I have mulitiples. I have at least 4 toons with galors. I have 2 or 3 elachi escorts... a couple of the cruisers. I have a Temporal science ship on I think everyone of my science toons (thats 6 or 7)... a couple temp destroyers. A couple bugs now. I have at least one lockbox ship on everyone of my toons... and I won't even count the number of fleet ships I have.
Point is... I'm not pointing at anyone saying he has and its NO fair. lol
I think that makes you the proverbial Whale, which given your glee at this nerf means Cryptic is doing its job keeping you happy.
I'm going to be perfectly honest with you, and say that I don't like this respecing my character without my permission.
I have spent a year building my customized character the way I want him, I like the skills I have chosen.
For you to arbitrarily go around make him a cookie cutter character, just like everyone else's is simply stupid.
My only Character is a Vice Admiral Tactical Offficer, who uses the Omega Weapons remodulation, the Distortion Field and Medical Nanite Cloud. That works for me, and I don't want them changed.
No two characters are the same, nor should they be. I have selected my powers for my characters background.
I don't fight PVE space or ground the same way that everyone else does. On ground, I'm a sniper, in space, I draw them in, then launch the cloaked tractor beam mines and Breen Transphasic Torpedo Cluster.
Respecing our character smacks of godmoding, and that will ruin the game.
Why would I want to have to go and redo every single Reputation level? That's just stupid as well.
If you want to give us better content, go ahead. But don't force a respec on us without our permission.
In my opinion, that's a good way to chase off your customer base.
Problem is, you are not actually owning everything. You use it on loan. All the rights belong to CBS up until you buy Star Trek from them.
This actually helps NO ONE. This limits EVERYONE, whether they completed reps or not.
Simply refraining from adding new rep powers or making them not combat-centric from now on would ensure it doesnt become eccentric.
The power creep I keep hearing about would be very little to not-at-all affected. There are much bigger factors that cause that and unless devs start chomping pretty much everything from ships to consoles it will remain virtually untouched by these changes.
The idea that this will help the game survive is also simply bullcrap. New players would find incentives to improve more interesting rather than the idea that the already powerful players have been cut down to their size instead. That is a stupid idea to begin with. Complaints that the vets are stomping on the little guy's neck and keepin him down are nothing but loser whines and its not this kind of attitude that the good player base is made of anyway. It's 4th grade childishness.
Imo, the current designers are so out of touch with players that they are making veteran players leaving the game.
I think cryptics/pwe need to hire new designers that actually love playing STO and a trekkie because the way STO heading atm is nothing but Star Trek. People're playing STO is because of Star Trek not because it's a great mmo.
Furthermore, they just posted that changes would be made to the rep. system. It would limit rep powers to 4 space and 4 ground traits at a time to prevent powercreep.
It's an oxymoron! Mmos are different from other genre since the more one plays, the more items/powers/skills/money one gets. That's the whole point of playing a mmo. Are the devs making STO a standalone or fps game now?
Cryptics/Pwe want ppl to play a lot, but they make the game pointless to play a lot? Whoever thought of those changes needed a mri!
Ok, so, the big question I've not seen answered (or clarified)
Say I've done all the reps, T5 throughout (which I have)
Under the new system, do I have a choice of 4 space and 4 ground out of all 32 available, or only the 16 I'd previously selected.
My reading is the former, but everyone's talking about the latter.
It's the former. Of the 32 total passives in your example, 16 are Space and 16 are Ground. For your 4 Space choices, you can pick any of the 16 Space powers. For your 4 Ground choices, you can pick any of the 16 Ground powers.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Do any of the developers even know how to play the game they have developed???
Do any of you even know what a hazard emitters even does???
Can any developer even take a direct hit from a borg gate???
Unfortunately it is apparent from the developers blogs and posts that the answer to all of these questions and many not asked is a big resounding whole-hearted hilarious laughter and nothing to be said on the topic.
Again stop thinking about now... Devs don't make changes with out thinking 6 months down the road.
Sorry, stop taking Hawk at his word?
He explicitally stated this was about narrowing the effective gap between new VA and vet VA.
In that context, its utterly valid to consider the proposal in that light.
And, in that light as you have amply demonstrated, the min maxer actually gains an advantage from this change.
In terms of its stated aim, you have shown that it has utterly failed.
I agree this doesn't go far enough to fix the gap alone. To be honest I have no idea how they fix the shimitard build issue... short of a massive nerf to Rom Boffs. (which isn't a bad idea at all)
However it does stop it from getting any worse. There will be at least 6 reps 6 months from now. Hawk is thinking about that you can be sure.
Actually, I don't disagree with this.
There are two problems with the proposal as currently posited.
Firstly it doesn't actually address current power creep, it actually makes it worse.
Or are you suggesting that a skilled min maxer, newly buffed in their specialist area, is going to have their fatal weakness regulary found out by the average joe new VA?
Secondly, it is taking things away from the player, bad sophistry to the contrary notwithstanding.
However, the basic idea is not fatally flawed in my view. It simply doesn't go far enough.
To address the first problem is actually easy.
All you have to do is tier the passive slots.
So, instead of picking any four of your passives, you may only select one tier 1, one tier 2, one tier 3 and one tier 4 power.
This prevents the double dipping of particular powers, which were set up as either/or in the original configuration.
Because a sci ship, properly min maxed with both Nukara tier 4 powers, is blatantly OP.
This would also mean that a new VA would have to get two reps to tier 4 in order to fill up both of their passive trays.
This partially addresses problem number two.
It means that the new VA still has to do some work to get to on an exactly level playing field in this regard.
This honours the work people have already done in good faith.
To properly address problem two though, the tier 5 active powers need to be left ut of this new system.
In other words, ration the passives, but actives become permanently available.
Because getting to the end of multiple rep projects should mean something.
Do any of the developers even know how to play the game they have developed???
Do any of you even know what a hazard emitters even does???
Can any developer even take a direct hit from a borg gate???
Unfortunately it is apparent from the developers blogs and posts that the answer to all of these questions and many not asked is a big resounding whole-hearted hilarious laughter and nothing to be said on the topic.
o.O
dangerous questions I like, but you should have pointed out, "without their GM powers" as well
We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Remember think positive: you no longer have to grind the reputation! Just do one you might want, and ignore the rest--huge time saver.
Otherwise you look at it and think "wow, so you're saying I've been playing and customizing and paying for respecs for years.... but I can only be as good as someone who just started this month? THANKS! " Just wait... next they'll have all weapons and consoles be set to the same values if you do PvP that way there's not a huge benefit to having fleet weapons over MK X/XI/XII that people buy. Spent time grinding for the best things? Great! Now you'll be having the same DPS as someone who just started--we can't have a huge gap!
Seriously... I've already heard of a few people who are giving up STO as a result of this change, because of the massive nurfing to the eng and sci characters (the tanks) in favor of the Bug ship/escorts
Remember think positive: you no longer have to grind the reputation! Just do one you might want, and ignore the rest--huge time saver.
Otherwise you look at it and think "wow, so you're saying I've been playing and customizing and paying for respecs for years.... but I can only be as good as someone who just started this month? THANKS! " Just wait... next they'll have all weapons and consoles be set to the same values if you do PvP that way there's not a huge benefit to having fleet weapons over MK X/XI/XII that people buy. Spent time grinding for the best things? Great! Now you'll be having the same DPS as someone who just started--we can't have a huge gap!
Seriously... I've already heard of a few people who are giving up STO as a result of this change, because of the massive nurfing to the eng and sci characters (the tanks) in favor of the Bug ship/escorts
I'm not giving up the game. I'm just not giving the developers any money!
That's how they grade things. If they get more money, the change was good. If they get less, the change was bad.
Those who like this change, spend cash. Those who dont, keep the money. That money has to be earned by doing stuff I like XD
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I'm not giving up the game. I'm just not giving the developers any money!
That's how they grade things. If they get more money, the change was good. If they get less, the change was bad.
Those who like this change, spend cash. Those who dont, keep the money. That money has to be earned by doing stuff I like XD
Oh I meant people I know in the game Some are fairly big PvP players who are healers--this is going to nurf them to the point of uselessness. Instead of healing others, they'll spend their time healing themselves and running without doing damage--so it's going to make them basically useless.
If I understand this correctly, the total slots for powers will be changed/lowered, but the powers are switchable out of combat.
What this is effectively is dynamically reconfigurable power selection. This is actually a nice thing. On one hand yes you could call it a nerf, but I personally do not consider it as such. Will just add a little bit of forethought into your rep trait slotting. Nothing wrong with that.
what i dont get is: why should limiting to 4 passives (f.e. only space) help the game balancing?
since i tried A2B is see, that a lot of passives can be quite a creep, but so PWE/Cyp has also the "blaance" FAW, Scatter Volley, Romulan Hyper Plasma + Scimitar with Scorpion hangar pets...
i dont think the matter is to limit passive rep powers, i think the matter is more of the very uncreative, cheeky way Pwe/cryp tryies to save their game without thinking
I agree this is only one change that is pretty much needed to bring things into a better state of balance. No game can be perfectly balanced. Your right though most people can agree on a list of stuff that is obviously to powerful.
I know "all passives on all the time" wasn't on many people list.
I think if you follow the thought out though you can see how it WILL be a major issue going forward.
Right now I think we where right on the edge. 4 Full reps with 8 passives was/is very very powerful. There is also no real choices. Yes you choose one of the other all the time but people in general just took what was accepted to be the best of the 2 options.
Cryptic has even been selling respecs on Rep powers... I think its clear them dropping the idea of charging for that is them admitting that they didn't really make much money off that idea.
Is 4 to low... I don't know perhaps... I think they want to reduce current levels somewhat though and so a reduction to 4 makes sense there. However with the buff to some of the traits yes it can be seen as a buff for specific builds .... sort of. Truth is its a buff to one aspect of those builds. In that regard I think they want to make it more attractive to swap traits around... and there for make it more attractive to unlock new ones.
Honestly this change isn't some Unique Cryptic idea... pretty much every MMO with a trait system (and even other Video games in general) limits the amount you can slot at one time. They limit them 2 give players build opitons. (they could never release 100 traits with out a limit)... they also do limit creep by allowing them to do new content with new rewards constantly that don't effect overall balance points.
Here is a link to the LOTRO system... I point it out because I think its a pretty standard MMO example and its well described. All these games have something similer though... the names change and the ideas blend between skill trees / skill traits / passive bonuses / Reputation skills / Virtues / Racial traits / skill customization.... ect ect it all blends but most games have 2-3 different stat options you can tailor on a toon... the names change the ideas are all the same... and the only thing common is that you always have a Limited amount of space to slot them or a limited amount of points to spend on them. I can't think of any other MMO where you can just keep stacking as you unlock new stuff.
http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Traits (one of my all time fav MMOs... Race Class and Virtue traits... unlocked through deeds and had a limited number of each slottable)
It's just not infinitely scalable. As I pointed out in the blog, if we had 100 reps in the current live setup, the difference in performance between a fresh 50 and a "complete" 50 would be so immense they wouldn't fit in the same proverbial room.
And they should not fit in the same proverbial room, if they have the ability to earn the power the same as long time players. eventually they would be able to compete. after they earned it. Absolutely no reason other than placating cry babies to have new players on equal footing with long time players.
the old rep system to get the ground 3 piece set you had to grind on all 3 different ground missions. doing so you eventually ( way to random ) got the ground set and learned how to play on the ground. learned the mission. and the ques for those mission always had people.
now you never have to touch the ground to earn the ground set. then somebody comes in all decked out and is still a complete noob.
I believe that power creep is a problem that is for sure, but I don't see this as the way to fix the problem. the entire rep system is flawed just to make the new players and cry babies happy.
Id rather see each mission give an item after beating it x amount of times. easy mode gives mk x elite give mk xi and after you have both sets earned via playing the mission (not random drops) you can buy the mk xii set from a rep store. That way you would know when your going to get the sets, like the accolades.
Same would go for space gear. tie each part of a set to a mission. play mission x amount of times earn the set. period no need for marks or any of that other junk. then once the lesser sets are unlocked you go to rep store and buy the mk12 items you have now unlocked with Dilithium / EC / EXP .
And the only CAP increase should be in the MOBs not the players. increase mob lvl to 60 to help offset the damage you devs have already done with power creep.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
The folks happy about this because they think suddenly FTP dabblers will somehow stay and play are fooling themselves.
What do you think turns off new players more, some powers that they likely have no idea other players have, in one of a multitude of advancement systems, and - IMPORTANTLY - one that they can actually complete rather quickly if they so choose - or the fact that you are constantly looting lock boxes that cost $1.25 to open and more times than not give you worthless TRIBBLE while dangling in front of you awesome looking and powerful ships that you cannot attain any other way?
It's a joke.
And, FWIW, I actually don't mind lock boxes, I've opened tons of them - I'm one of those "whales" who has spent a couple of thousand on this game over the years. I have all of the lock box ones, and most of the Lobi ones (just don't have a couple that didn't appeal to me - there reaches a point where you have enough ships). I also have all of the Lobi store space equipment.
But let's call a spade a spade and stop pretending it's a club - this has nothing to do with new players getting them to play the game - join fleets, play through content, etc. At all. There are tons and tons of things that turn off new players, and rep powers weren't it.
The truth is, they want to make this game easier for someone to jump in and PvP with no time invested - like a MOBA. They want to attract the MOBA crowd who expects to jump in a game, a few might drop a few bucks, and then rule PvP. In a game that wasn't designed for that, and won't attract that type of player no matter how hard they try.
Basically, they are trying to emulate the online game of the moment, which is why I am sure MOBA-type content is coming - folks that won't actually play STO, just use one feature of it, and, like their attention spans, will come, try it out, and then move on to the next MOBA of the moment. These folks don't build communities or care about deep content, it's the antithesis of what an immersive MMO is. It's like picking up a mobile game to play for a few minutes until you get bored.
And all the while, the same changes will drive out folks who just don't have a reason to play - why bother doing a rep tree when you've already got your slots filled, and stacks of 3-pc sets already. At least the rep trees as they are give you something permanent to work for and that actually look like development in your character - not just more "choices" at the same level that you only use if you micromanage yet another system every time you want to switch tasks in game.
Frankly, the only reason I am playing the amount of time I do now is moving through these rep trees - and without motivation to do so, I won't continue buying ZEN, I won't feel the need to play but every few months when a new Featured Episode comes out. What's the point - not going to spend time just to give myself a few more choices as opposed to progression. I guess I should thank them - more free time for me to do other things, I guess.
(Cracks a beer, and opens a bag of potato chips)"Oh this is going to be a good one.":D
What is the old forum clich
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
Comments
That being said, I hope to remain cautiously optimistic about these changes.
Hmmm, so that Scimitar with the Valdore console, properly min maxed will get a buff.
Tell me how that is not an utter contradiction of what Hawk was talking about when he mentioned the new VA versus the veteran VA.
Hawk is the one who explicitally posited this as an answer to power creep....now.
As a means to narrow the gap between new VAs and vet VAs.
The changes do nothing of the sort, as you have pointed out.
Those min maxed ships that Hawk was putting up against the new Va....they get an actual buff.
This is the opposite of what Hawk has explicitally said these changes are aimed at.
So, Cryptic response is Nerf everybody. The elite and regular players who was complaining.
Way to go Cryptic! Excellent.
We will never agree obviously on this one... and that is fine we don't have to. We can both state our positions and Cryptic will do what Cryptic will do.
Just for the recored though I have 16 toons... they are all done with the rep. (well ok there might be one or two of my alts at tier 4 instead of 5).
I have EVERY lockbox ship. More then that I have mulitiples. I have at least 4 toons with galors. I have 2 or 3 elachi escorts... a couple of the cruisers. I have a Temporal science ship on I think everyone of my science toons (thats 6 or 7)... a couple temp destroyers. A couple bugs now. I have at least one lockbox ship on everyone of my toons... and I won't even count the number of fleet ships I have.
Point is... I'm not pointing at anyone saying he has and its NO fair. lol
No like snoggymack just stated.
Right now this is pretty much a wash... boosting both the MAX and the MIN on some min max builds right now....
However Rep number 5 is coming at the same time... and we will never play a game where people could have ALL 8 we have now in combo with the 2 new ones from Undine Rep.
After Undine there will be another and another and another rep system... you can count on it.
So as I said in the first one you quoted.... 2 years from now when we have 10+ reps something like this will HAVE to be in place.
a bit harsh, maybe yeah...but maybe i see your defence/argument in this change also the wrong way ^^
ok back to topic:
what i dont get is: why should limiting to 4 passives (f.e. only space) help the game balancing?
since i tried A2B is see, that a lot of passives can be quite a creep, but so PWE/Cyp has also the "blaance" FAW, Scatter Volley, Romulan Hyper Plasma + Scimitar with Scorpion hangar pets...
i thought all the time this game was about getting to the max, spending time in collecting all passives, all Accolades and so on...
if they/we are going that way... we need to cut a lot of things...and a lot of players will be really pissed off.
i think the dmg factor is not a bad thing, if you know how to use it as DEV.
f.e.:
why not making a borg stf like it is with following changes:
dmg is needed to kill a cube, BUT
- a sci ship can disable the shield around the cube in no time, where other ships need to wait a time (i mean the shield like in infected, it drops as soon as the cube and the 2 spheres are down)
- a engeneer can send a special team to destroy the gate at once...
in this example dmg dealing is still a option, but not the only one.
a sci gets more attentions, as also a eng..
so why is there still a need to limit powers?
i know a sicussion when the Kumari came on Store, everybody said...."meh... blody glass cannons", but soon everybody tac, eng and sci are/were flying one, because everyone tried to bring the kumari to its best. and dont tell me every passive will make this ship invinceble...
i dont think the matter is to limit passive rep powers, i think the matter is more of the very uncreative, cheeky way Pwe/cryp tryies to save their game without thinking
Very true -.-
OK and? All that means is that you personally are ok with the fact you are giving up that work you did, good for you(not sarcasm)
<.< >.> >.<
Great... Another person with both Temporal Consoles XD something I have been trying to get XD. No sir, I am not begrudging you, in fact I have nothing but respect for you, since you have kept a very calm attitude with me, and I apologize if I had been rude at all, it is just I have been trying to get the Mobius console myself
You might not be, but other are which is probably why this is happening, or at least PART of the reason why
My apologize I must have mixed you up with another poster in regard to the science ship.
Honestly I would say if you don't like the passives NOW is your time to impress Cryptic with reasoans to buff them more.
They are likely pretty set on 4 active passives. I doubt they will back track on that.
However Hawk HAS Stated they are listening and if people believe they should further buff any of the passives to bring them up to snuff to speak up now. So speak up, what would you change and by how much ?
Again stop thinking about now... Devs don't make changes with out thinking 6 months down the road.
I agree this doesn't go far enough to fix the gap alone. To be honest I have no idea how they fix the shimitard build issue... short of a massive nerf to Rom Boffs. (which isn't a bad idea at all)
However it does stop it from getting any worse. There will be at least 6 reps 6 months from now. Hawk is thinking about that you can be sure.
I have spent a year building my customized character the way I want him, I like the skills I have chosen.
For you to arbitrarily go around make him a cookie cutter character, just like everyone else's is simply stupid.
My only Character is a Vice Admiral Tactical Offficer, who uses the Omega Weapons remodulation, the Distortion Field and Medical Nanite Cloud. That works for me, and I don't want them changed.
No two characters are the same, nor should they be. I have selected my powers for my characters background.
I don't fight PVE space or ground the same way that everyone else does. On ground, I'm a sniper, in space, I draw them in, then launch the cloaked tractor beam mines and Breen Transphasic Torpedo Cluster.
Respecing our character smacks of godmoding, and that will ruin the game.
Why would I want to have to go and redo every single Reputation level? That's just stupid as well.
If you want to give us better content, go ahead. But don't force a respec on us without our permission.
In my opinion, that's a good way to chase off your customer base.
I think that makes you the proverbial Whale, which given your glee at this nerf means Cryptic is doing its job keeping you happy.
Problem is, you are not actually owning everything. You use it on loan. All the rights belong to CBS up until you buy Star Trek from them.
Simply refraining from adding new rep powers or making them not combat-centric from now on would ensure it doesnt become eccentric.
The power creep I keep hearing about would be very little to not-at-all affected. There are much bigger factors that cause that and unless devs start chomping pretty much everything from ships to consoles it will remain virtually untouched by these changes.
The idea that this will help the game survive is also simply bullcrap. New players would find incentives to improve more interesting rather than the idea that the already powerful players have been cut down to their size instead. That is a stupid idea to begin with. Complaints that the vets are stomping on the little guy's neck and keepin him down are nothing but loser whines and its not this kind of attitude that the good player base is made of anyway. It's 4th grade childishness.
nuff said
I think cryptics/pwe need to hire new designers that actually love playing STO and a trekkie because the way STO heading atm is nothing but Star Trek. People're playing STO is because of Star Trek not because it's a great mmo.
Furthermore, they just posted that changes would be made to the rep. system. It would limit rep powers to 4 space and 4 ground traits at a time to prevent powercreep.
It's an oxymoron! Mmos are different from other genre since the more one plays, the more items/powers/skills/money one gets. That's the whole point of playing a mmo. Are the devs making STO a standalone or fps game now?
Cryptics/Pwe want ppl to play a lot, but they make the game pointless to play a lot? Whoever thought of those changes needed a mri!
It's the former. Of the 32 total passives in your example, 16 are Space and 16 are Ground. For your 4 Space choices, you can pick any of the 16 Space powers. For your 4 Ground choices, you can pick any of the 16 Ground powers.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
the reputation system was and is a stepback...
bring back the omega store, as it were...on DS9...earn your OP gear!!!
give New Romulus a Store and Nukara and the Dyson....
that way you will not need any more rep systems and everything you stack around will be earned not given!
This is my only response to this.
Do any of the developers even know how to play the game they have developed???
Do any of you even know what a hazard emitters even does???
Can any developer even take a direct hit from a borg gate???
Unfortunately it is apparent from the developers blogs and posts that the answer to all of these questions and many not asked is a big resounding whole-hearted hilarious laughter and nothing to be said on the topic.
Sorry, stop taking Hawk at his word?
He explicitally stated this was about narrowing the effective gap between new VA and vet VA.
In that context, its utterly valid to consider the proposal in that light.
And, in that light as you have amply demonstrated, the min maxer actually gains an advantage from this change.
In terms of its stated aim, you have shown that it has utterly failed.
Actually, I don't disagree with this.
There are two problems with the proposal as currently posited.
Firstly it doesn't actually address current power creep, it actually makes it worse.
Or are you suggesting that a skilled min maxer, newly buffed in their specialist area, is going to have their fatal weakness regulary found out by the average joe new VA?
Secondly, it is taking things away from the player, bad sophistry to the contrary notwithstanding.
However, the basic idea is not fatally flawed in my view. It simply doesn't go far enough.
To address the first problem is actually easy.
All you have to do is tier the passive slots.
So, instead of picking any four of your passives, you may only select one tier 1, one tier 2, one tier 3 and one tier 4 power.
This prevents the double dipping of particular powers, which were set up as either/or in the original configuration.
Because a sci ship, properly min maxed with both Nukara tier 4 powers, is blatantly OP.
This would also mean that a new VA would have to get two reps to tier 4 in order to fill up both of their passive trays.
This partially addresses problem number two.
It means that the new VA still has to do some work to get to on an exactly level playing field in this regard.
This honours the work people have already done in good faith.
To properly address problem two though, the tier 5 active powers need to be left ut of this new system.
In other words, ration the passives, but actives become permanently available.
Because getting to the end of multiple rep projects should mean something.
How the hell does saying that help anyone? Joseph's comment was perfectly valid.
I'm also peeved that my characters are all being re-spec'd.
o.O
dangerous questions
Otherwise you look at it and think "wow, so you're saying I've been playing and customizing and paying for respecs for years.... but I can only be as good as someone who just started this month? THANKS!
Seriously... I've already heard of a few people who are giving up STO as a result of this change, because of the massive nurfing to the eng and sci characters (the tanks) in favor of the Bug ship/escorts
I'm not giving up the game. I'm just not giving the developers any money!
That's how they grade things. If they get more money, the change was good. If they get less, the change was bad.
Those who like this change, spend cash. Those who dont, keep the money. That money has to be earned by doing stuff I like XD
Oh I meant people I know in the game
What this is effectively is dynamically reconfigurable power selection. This is actually a nice thing. On one hand yes you could call it a nerf, but I personally do not consider it as such. Will just add a little bit of forethought into your rep trait slotting. Nothing wrong with that.
I agree this is only one change that is pretty much needed to bring things into a better state of balance. No game can be perfectly balanced. Your right though most people can agree on a list of stuff that is obviously to powerful.
I know "all passives on all the time" wasn't on many people list.
I think if you follow the thought out though you can see how it WILL be a major issue going forward.
Right now I think we where right on the edge. 4 Full reps with 8 passives was/is very very powerful. There is also no real choices. Yes you choose one of the other all the time but people in general just took what was accepted to be the best of the 2 options.
Cryptic has even been selling respecs on Rep powers... I think its clear them dropping the idea of charging for that is them admitting that they didn't really make much money off that idea.
Is 4 to low... I don't know perhaps... I think they want to reduce current levels somewhat though and so a reduction to 4 makes sense there. However with the buff to some of the traits yes it can be seen as a buff for specific builds .... sort of. Truth is its a buff to one aspect of those builds. In that regard I think they want to make it more attractive to swap traits around... and there for make it more attractive to unlock new ones.
Honestly this change isn't some Unique Cryptic idea... pretty much every MMO with a trait system (and even other Video games in general) limits the amount you can slot at one time. They limit them 2 give players build opitons. (they could never release 100 traits with out a limit)... they also do limit creep by allowing them to do new content with new rewards constantly that don't effect overall balance points.
Here is a link to the LOTRO system... I point it out because I think its a pretty standard MMO example and its well described.
http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Traits (one of my all time fav MMOs... Race Class and Virtue traits... unlocked through deeds and had a limited number of each slottable)
And they should not fit in the same proverbial room, if they have the ability to earn the power the same as long time players. eventually they would be able to compete. after they earned it. Absolutely no reason other than placating cry babies to have new players on equal footing with long time players.
the old rep system to get the ground 3 piece set you had to grind on all 3 different ground missions. doing so you eventually ( way to random ) got the ground set and learned how to play on the ground. learned the mission. and the ques for those mission always had people.
now you never have to touch the ground to earn the ground set. then somebody comes in all decked out and is still a complete noob.
I believe that power creep is a problem that is for sure, but I don't see this as the way to fix the problem. the entire rep system is flawed just to make the new players and cry babies happy.
Id rather see each mission give an item after beating it x amount of times. easy mode gives mk x elite give mk xi and after you have both sets earned via playing the mission (not random drops) you can buy the mk xii set from a rep store. That way you would know when your going to get the sets, like the accolades.
Same would go for space gear. tie each part of a set to a mission. play mission x amount of times earn the set. period no need for marks or any of that other junk. then once the lesser sets are unlocked you go to rep store and buy the mk12 items you have now unlocked with Dilithium / EC / EXP .
And the only CAP increase should be in the MOBs not the players. increase mob lvl to 60 to help offset the damage you devs have already done with power creep.
The folks happy about this because they think suddenly FTP dabblers will somehow stay and play are fooling themselves.
What do you think turns off new players more, some powers that they likely have no idea other players have, in one of a multitude of advancement systems, and - IMPORTANTLY - one that they can actually complete rather quickly if they so choose - or the fact that you are constantly looting lock boxes that cost $1.25 to open and more times than not give you worthless TRIBBLE while dangling in front of you awesome looking and powerful ships that you cannot attain any other way?
It's a joke.
And, FWIW, I actually don't mind lock boxes, I've opened tons of them - I'm one of those "whales" who has spent a couple of thousand on this game over the years. I have all of the lock box ones, and most of the Lobi ones (just don't have a couple that didn't appeal to me - there reaches a point where you have enough ships). I also have all of the Lobi store space equipment.
But let's call a spade a spade and stop pretending it's a club - this has nothing to do with new players getting them to play the game - join fleets, play through content, etc. At all. There are tons and tons of things that turn off new players, and rep powers weren't it.
The truth is, they want to make this game easier for someone to jump in and PvP with no time invested - like a MOBA. They want to attract the MOBA crowd who expects to jump in a game, a few might drop a few bucks, and then rule PvP. In a game that wasn't designed for that, and won't attract that type of player no matter how hard they try.
Basically, they are trying to emulate the online game of the moment, which is why I am sure MOBA-type content is coming - folks that won't actually play STO, just use one feature of it, and, like their attention spans, will come, try it out, and then move on to the next MOBA of the moment. These folks don't build communities or care about deep content, it's the antithesis of what an immersive MMO is. It's like picking up a mobile game to play for a few minutes until you get bored.
And all the while, the same changes will drive out folks who just don't have a reason to play - why bother doing a rep tree when you've already got your slots filled, and stacks of 3-pc sets already. At least the rep trees as they are give you something permanent to work for and that actually look like development in your character - not just more "choices" at the same level that you only use if you micromanage yet another system every time you want to switch tasks in game.
Frankly, the only reason I am playing the amount of time I do now is moving through these rep trees - and without motivation to do so, I won't continue buying ZEN, I won't feel the need to play but every few months when a new Featured Episode comes out. What's the point - not going to spend time just to give myself a few more choices as opposed to progression. I guess I should thank them - more free time for me to do other things, I guess.
What is the old forum clich