I think the point is that this is supposed to be a "social" hub and most of what can be seen there at times is most anti-social. It seems to me that this sometimes is not the place the devs want it to be in terms of "social" interaction.
In real life and indeed most games now there is moderation of some kind, this seems to be absent from esd,this is why many people use drozana or ds9 though these places are not entirely free of unpleasantness.
It is as social as it gets to be honest. This is the real world, buckle up. Any social zone in real-life is also usually the same. It is all optional and you voluntarily can participate or not.
So I've read most of this thread, and quite frankly I disagree.
ESD, DS9, and a few other places are the most popular zones in the game.
Here's where I lost you. DS9 one of 'the most popular zones in the game'? Well, if by that you mean 'one of the *only* few zones in the game,' then yes. Otherwise, DS9 has, for all purposes and intent, been deserted ever since the Omega rep, and ppl didn't need to visit Roxy and friends any more. Heck, even the Gorn folks have left (they are, annoyingly, at ESD nowadays).
Here's where I lost you. DS9 one of 'the most popular zones in the game'? Well, if by that you mean 'one of the *only* few zones in the game,' then yes. Otherwise, DS9 has, for all purposes and intent, been deserted ever since the Omega rep, and ppl didn't need to visit Roxy and friends any more. Heck, even the Gorn folks have left (they are, annoyingly, at ESD nowadays).
Where have you been? Sure, nobody visits Roxy anymore. (So sad) But it's still full of people.
The irony of your post is that when a thread pops up about social items, it's almost immediately flooded by a gang of disgruntled griefers (some organized) who will do and say anything to ensure their precious griefing tools are left untouched.
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what responsible players lose by Cryptic providing everyone an option to toggle social items on/off...
Not worth the development time. Really as simple as that.
Alrighty folks, now that I actually read the ENTIRE thread (like I said earlier I only read most which apparently turned out to be just some lol), a LOT of posts were edited and some warnings were issued.
Let me be very clear, discussions about eRP (and the kind I'm sure people know what I'm talking about) is NOT allowed on these forums. Now, if you're going to discuss about ESD being a social hub or not that's fine however any further discussions or posts about eRP will be removed and if it gets outta hand I'll have to close this thread down.
Also, as a reminder - Quoting posts that are against the rules CAN get you a warning as well or at the very least your entire post removed.
Send a PM to any moderator to handle it instead of replying. It tends to be safer.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
except that half of esd would get arrested for racism & hate crimes if they shouted their rubbish in the street.
Unrikery. Most of those people are Americans, and they have that pesky Free Speech thing. So it is rather unlikely that a significant proportion of them would be arrested just for saying something inane or personally offensive to you.
I ask because by the common dictionary definition, DS9 is anything but deserted.
Well, DS9 used to be a place with many knowledgeable ppl in it. The station attracted such folks because everyone needed to visit there on a more-or-less regular basis, and visit Roxy.
Nowadays, though, even though it's still crawling with ppl, it seems the steady crowd has left, and chat altogether has deteriorated.
People simply need a solid reason to visit a major social hub. The Omega rep was such a reason. And for ESD, it was mainly the shipyard.
Build it, and they will come;
Unbuild it, and they will leave.
Well, DS9 used to be a place with many knowledgeable ppl in it. The station attracted such folks because everyone needed to visit there on a more-or-less regular basis, and visit Roxy.
Nowadays, though, even though it's still crawling with ppl, it seems the steady crowd has left, and chat altogether has deteriorated.
People simply need a solid reason to visit a major social hub. The Omega rep was such a reason. And for ESD, it was mainly the shipyard.
Build it, and they will come;
Unbuild it, and they will leave.
Unrikery. Most of those people are Americans, and they have that pesky Free Speech thing. So it is rather unlikely that a significant proportion of them would be arrested just for saying something inane or personally offensive to you.
Correct, comrade. Contrary to skollulfr's assertion, I've not seen anything in ESD Zone chat (which I openly admit to contain every bit the cesspool some claim it does) which even approaches things routinely chanted by Ku Klux Klan marchers with crowds and cameras watching as they chant their way down Main Street. Consider the late Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist. No, ESD Zone chat doesn't contain much that would get one arrested most places in the US.
Alrighty folks, now that I actually read the ENTIRE thread (like I said earlier I only read most which apparently turned out to be just some lol), a LOT of posts were edited and some warnings were issued.
Let me be very clear, discussions about eRP (and the kind I'm sure people know what I'm talking about) is NOT allowed on these forums. Now, if you're going to discuss about ESD being a social hub or not that's fine however any further discussions or posts about eRP will be removed and if it gets outta hand I'll have to close this thread down.
Also, as a reminder - Quoting posts that are against the rules CAN get you a warning as well or at the very least your entire post removed.
Send a PM to any moderator to handle it instead of replying. It tends to be safer.
So we can't acknowledge THAT it happens and is probably rare.
Does that mean that people who claim to be anti-eRP enforcers or accuse RPers of being eRPers should stop as well...?
Because all I did was challenge the idea that it's common and question how, if it is, non-eRP roleplay may be underserved.
I don't think we entered to any kind of explicit discussion and the bulk of my post was about how to improve standard roleplay while emphasizing consent, autonomy, and respect as game design principles in non-explicit all ages appropriate social interactions while emphasizing mechanics centered on things like dancing, singing, and lockpicking. And overall trying to get roleplay out of chat boxes and into visual and immersive gameplay systems.
Are dancing, drinking, playing cards, and bicycles somehow considered eRP topics?
So we can't acknowledge THAT it happens and is probably rare.
Does that mean that people who claim to be anti-eRP enforcers or accuse RPers of being eRPers should stop as well...?
Because all I did was challenge the idea that it's common and question how, if it is, non-eRP roleplay may be underserved.
I don't think we entered to any kind of explicit discussion and the bulk of my post was about how to improve standard roleplay while emphasizing consent, autonomy, and respect as game design principles in non-explicit all ages appropriate social interactions while emphasizing mechanics centered on things like dancing, singing, and lockpicking. And overall trying to get roleplay out of chat boxes and into visual and immersive gameplay systems.
Are dancing, drinking, playing cards, and bicycles somehow considered eRP topics?
See the third paragraph(ish thingy) in my post you quoted.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
So we can't acknowledge THAT it happens and is probably rare.
Does that mean that people who claim to be anti-eRP enforcers or accuse RPers of being eRPers should stop as well...?
Because all I did was challenge the idea that it's common and question how, if it is, non-eRP roleplay may be underserved.
I don't think we entered to any kind of explicit discussion and the bulk of my post was about how to improve standard roleplay while emphasizing consent, autonomy, and respect as game design principles in non-explicit all ages appropriate social interactions while emphasizing mechanics centered on things like dancing, singing, and lockpicking. And overall trying to get roleplay out of chat boxes and into visual and immersive gameplay systems.
Are dancing, drinking, playing cards, and bicycles somehow considered eRP topics?
Eh, I didn't think your post should have been censored either, but anyway, getting back to what you were saying.
I didn't like The Secret World. The game was terrible, but the Quest Design was rather interesting.
Eh, I didn't think your post should have been censored either, but anyway, getting back to what you were saying.
I didn't like The Secret World. The game was terrible, but the Quest Design was rather interesting.
Shifting gears slightly, if censoring forums is okay, why not censor the game more?
I personally support and approve of private censorship.
My faith in places of business is affirmed when they refuse to serve or boot out disorderly customers. Meanwhile, I've stopped shopping or eating at places that aren't willing to take a heavy hand with customers.
I don't care about or want freedom in some kind of absolute sense. I want POLISH and I want civility. In general, I support European and Canadian laws restricting speech as well and think it probably will create liabilities for Cryptic in the long run to have a Laissez Faire attitude towards player interactions and game chat.
I would rather it be pleasant, civil, and evident of a well planned system than free. As a rule, I'm not sure I'd fight for the right of other people to speak freely and I would fight against their right to express themselves in any fashion that they want if that includes harmful forms of expression. It should not be the responsibility of anyone to tune out or walk away from public conversation. If it can't be cost effectively policed in a sensible way without relying on player reported silencing mechanics, rip it out.
For me to respect someone's freedoms, the exercise of those freedoms has to be rational and of minimal cost to others. If they don't stop where everyone else's freedoms begin, we aren't even talking about freedom. We're talking about control and a particularly malignant brand of control.
I've no idea, myself. I'm all for such a toggle that, client-side, disables all such effects for the person who just can't handle not being 110% in control at every second.
I admit I'm mostly for it not because of it actually solving anything, but just to see what the anti-disco-ball screamers would move to next given how most of them seem to thrive on raising unholy hell about anyone not playing their way, aka "The One True Way."
-shrug-
I would support it as well if it were a possibility and wouldn't introduce game breaking bugs, but I have no doubt that even if the screamers succeeded in getting disco balls removed it would not end there, not simply because they can't handle not being 110% in control of themselves at every second, but more importantly they can't handle not having any control of how others play the game.
Now it's no party effects, soon it will be heavy moderation in chat, then no outlandish revealing character costumes and the demands will continue to escalate until eventually everyone is walking a tight conformist line of enforced roleplay acting like they really have joined the friggin military and even then I doubt they would be satisfied.
I am a casual gamer, disco balls don't bother me, in fact when someone sets one of them off, I go over and dance, one of my characters is an alien and I used a costume slot to make a little green man complete with silver suit, bulbous head and antennae that looks completely ridiculous when dancing and why? Because when it's all said and done, it is just a game, if you are not having fun, if you are taking this oh so seriously that these stupid party toys are just ruining your life, you really need to stop and think about what the hell you are doing.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Shifting gears slightly, if censoring forums is okay, why not censor the game more?
I personally support and approve of private censorship.
My faith in places of business is affirmed when they refuse to serve or boot out disorderly customers. Meanwhile, I've stopped shopping or eating at places that aren't willing to take a heavy hand with customers.
I don't care about or want freedom in some kind of absolute sense. I want POLISH and I want civility. In general, I support European and Canadian laws restricting speech as well and think it probably will create liabilities for Cryptic in the long run to have a Laissez Faire attitude towards player interactions and game chat.
I would rather it be pleasant, civil, and evident of a well planned system than free. As a rule, I'm not sure I'd fight for the right of other people to speak freely and I would fight against their right to express themselves in any fashion that they want if that includes harmful forms of expression. It should not be the responsibility of anyone to tune out or walk away from public conversation. If it can't be cost effectively policed in a sensible way without relying on player reported silencing mechanics, rip it out.
For me to respect someone's freedoms, the exercise of those freedoms has to be rational and of minimal cost to others. If they don't stop where everyone else's freedoms begin, we aren't even talking about freedom. We're talking about control and a particularly malignant brand of control.
The STO community mods aren't paid employees. It's something they do in their free time. Volunteer GM's could work, but I've seen some disastrous cases of that in the past. So horrible in fact, I would much rather have all the gorn jokes in the world rather than volunteer GM's.
Sure, we always want people to act their best, but that's simply unfeasible. Everyone has a bad day. I switch off zone chat, and only talk to fleetmates, people I've met on the forums, or people who I think have cool characters. And that works for me.
Want to increase social zone use? Then POLICE them! So players feel safe an un harassed visiting them. Other wise its not going to change no matter what you do.
Well, there's also the fact you don't earn any money/dil while sitting around ESD. Now if Cryptic wants to make some sort of EC/dil per minute counter so I can lounge around spacedock, I'd be all for it. Couch Trek Online!
Well, there's also the fact you don't earn any money/dil while sitting around ESD. Now if Cryptic wants to make some sort of EC/dil per minute counter so I can lounge around spacedock, I'd be all for it. Couch Trek Online!
25th century welfare?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Well, there's also the fact you don't earn any money/dil while sitting around ESD. Now if Cryptic wants to make some sort of EC/dil per minute counter so I can lounge around spacedock, I'd be all for it. Couch Trek Online!
This definitely would solve a lot of problems with grind related burn-out. :P
The STO community mods aren't paid employees. It's something they do in their free time. Volunteer GM's could work, but I've seen some disastrous cases of that in the past. So horrible in fact, I would much rather have all the gorn jokes in the world rather than volunteer GM's.
Sure, we always want people to act their best, but that's simply unfeasible. Everyone has a bad day. I switch off zone chat, and only talk to fleetmates, people I've met on the forums, or people who I think have cool characters. And that works for me.
Wait.... I don't have zone chat enabled.. There are Gorn jokes?!?!?
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Idiot horns and troll ball WILL keep contamination off of ESD and any other place where there is a large concentration of people.
These people need to stick to quiet places in the shadows, or else they won't be able to do their thing. No large, mixed group of people would tolerate it, and they have no business complaining about that fact, they must accept it.
What kind of contamination are you talking about again? People playing a game in a way you don't like?
Now it's no party effects, soon it will be heavy moderation in chat, then no outlandish revealing character costumes and the demands will continue to escalate until eventually everyone is walking a tight conformist line of enforced roleplay acting like they really have joined the friggin military and even then I doubt they would be satisfied.
Emphasis mine. It's almost like you installed and started playing a game where your character joined the friggin' military.
As another player, I don't really care about your desire to be a unique snowflake, particularly when what you're sticking up for is harassment, hate speech in chat, and well... I don't care about the costumes. Express away there. That doesn't hurt anyone. I've always stuck up for this because there's a history of officers out of uniform and in mismatched uniforms in Trek. But, yeah, that's why I support it. Because the IP supports it and it enhances gameplay.
By all means though, I support limiting everyone's ability to impact everyone else, either in an unwanted way (open PvP, party poppers) or in a harmful way (which I think is justifiably illegal in some countries).
Emphasis mine. It's almost like you installed and started playing a game where your character joined the friggin' military.
As another player, I don't really care about your desire to be a unique snowflake, particularly when what you're sticking up for is harassment, hate speech in chat, and well... I don't care about the costumes. Express away there. That doesn't hurt anyone. I've always stuck up for this because there's a history of officers out of uniform and in mismatched uniforms in Trek. But, yeah, that's why I support it. Because the IP supports it and it enhances gameplay.
By all means though, I support limiting everyone's ability to impact everyone else, either in an unwanted way (open PvP, party poppers) or in a harmful way (which I think is justifiably illegal in some countries).
I think it's safe to say that very few people care about what you do or do not care about. Especially if it's something as nonsensical as thinking party poppers and discoballs need to be limited because they're "impactful" in some meaningful way.
Comments
It is as social as it gets to be honest. This is the real world, buckle up. Any social zone in real-life is also usually the same. It is all optional and you voluntarily can participate or not.
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Here's where I lost you.
Say wha'!? :mad: They need to get in line and wait to be ganked in Ker'rat! :P
Where have you been? Sure, nobody visits Roxy anymore. (So sad) But it's still full of people.
Okay, but what do responsible players lose?
What is your definition of "deserted?"
I ask because by the common dictionary definition, DS9 is anything but deserted.
Let me be very clear, discussions about eRP (and the kind I'm sure people know what I'm talking about) is NOT allowed on these forums. Now, if you're going to discuss about ESD being a social hub or not that's fine however any further discussions or posts about eRP will be removed and if it gets outta hand I'll have to close this thread down.
Also, as a reminder - Quoting posts that are against the rules CAN get you a warning as well or at the very least your entire post removed.
Send a PM to any moderator to handle it instead of replying. It tends to be safer.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Um.... okay.... I didn't see anything that violated any rules, but whatever.
Anyway, to respond, I never liked The Secret World, but at least it had nifty gimmicks when it came to quest design.
Well, DS9 used to be a place with many knowledgeable ppl in it. The station attracted such folks because everyone needed to visit there on a more-or-less regular basis, and visit Roxy.
Nowadays, though, even though it's still crawling with ppl, it seems the steady crowd has left, and chat altogether has deteriorated.
People simply need a solid reason to visit a major social hub. The Omega rep was such a reason. And for ESD, it was mainly the shipyard.
Build it, and they will come;
Unbuild it, and they will leave.
Really? I never left Zone Chat on.
Correct, comrade. Contrary to skollulfr's assertion, I've not seen anything in ESD Zone chat (which I openly admit to contain every bit the cesspool some claim it does) which even approaches things routinely chanted by Ku Klux Klan marchers with crowds and cameras watching as they chant their way down Main Street. Consider the late Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist. No, ESD Zone chat doesn't contain much that would get one arrested most places in the US.
So we can't acknowledge THAT it happens and is probably rare.
Does that mean that people who claim to be anti-eRP enforcers or accuse RPers of being eRPers should stop as well...?
Because all I did was challenge the idea that it's common and question how, if it is, non-eRP roleplay may be underserved.
I don't think we entered to any kind of explicit discussion and the bulk of my post was about how to improve standard roleplay while emphasizing consent, autonomy, and respect as game design principles in non-explicit all ages appropriate social interactions while emphasizing mechanics centered on things like dancing, singing, and lockpicking. And overall trying to get roleplay out of chat boxes and into visual and immersive gameplay systems.
Are dancing, drinking, playing cards, and bicycles somehow considered eRP topics?
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Eh, I didn't think your post should have been censored either, but anyway, getting back to what you were saying.
I didn't like The Secret World. The game was terrible, but the Quest Design was rather interesting.
Shifting gears slightly, if censoring forums is okay, why not censor the game more?
I personally support and approve of private censorship.
My faith in places of business is affirmed when they refuse to serve or boot out disorderly customers. Meanwhile, I've stopped shopping or eating at places that aren't willing to take a heavy hand with customers.
I don't care about or want freedom in some kind of absolute sense. I want POLISH and I want civility. In general, I support European and Canadian laws restricting speech as well and think it probably will create liabilities for Cryptic in the long run to have a Laissez Faire attitude towards player interactions and game chat.
I would rather it be pleasant, civil, and evident of a well planned system than free. As a rule, I'm not sure I'd fight for the right of other people to speak freely and I would fight against their right to express themselves in any fashion that they want if that includes harmful forms of expression. It should not be the responsibility of anyone to tune out or walk away from public conversation. If it can't be cost effectively policed in a sensible way without relying on player reported silencing mechanics, rip it out.
For me to respect someone's freedoms, the exercise of those freedoms has to be rational and of minimal cost to others. If they don't stop where everyone else's freedoms begin, we aren't even talking about freedom. We're talking about control and a particularly malignant brand of control.
Now it's no party effects, soon it will be heavy moderation in chat, then no outlandish revealing character costumes and the demands will continue to escalate until eventually everyone is walking a tight conformist line of enforced roleplay acting like they really have joined the friggin military and even then I doubt they would be satisfied.
I am a casual gamer, disco balls don't bother me, in fact when someone sets one of them off, I go over and dance, one of my characters is an alien and I used a costume slot to make a little green man complete with silver suit, bulbous head and antennae that looks completely ridiculous when dancing and why? Because when it's all said and done, it is just a game, if you are not having fun, if you are taking this oh so seriously that these stupid party toys are just ruining your life, you really need to stop and think about what the hell you are doing.
The STO community mods aren't paid employees. It's something they do in their free time. Volunteer GM's could work, but I've seen some disastrous cases of that in the past. So horrible in fact, I would much rather have all the gorn jokes in the world rather than volunteer GM's.
Sure, we always want people to act their best, but that's simply unfeasible. Everyone has a bad day. I switch off zone chat, and only talk to fleetmates, people I've met on the forums, or people who I think have cool characters. And that works for me.
Well, there's also the fact you don't earn any money/dil while sitting around ESD. Now if Cryptic wants to make some sort of EC/dil per minute counter so I can lounge around spacedock, I'd be all for it. Couch Trek Online!
25th century welfare?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
This definitely would solve a lot of problems with grind related burn-out. :P
Wait.... I don't have zone chat enabled.. There are Gorn jokes?!?!?
What kind of contamination are you talking about again? People playing a game in a way you don't like?
Emphasis mine. It's almost like you installed and started playing a game where your character joined the friggin' military.
As another player, I don't really care about your desire to be a unique snowflake, particularly when what you're sticking up for is harassment, hate speech in chat, and well... I don't care about the costumes. Express away there. That doesn't hurt anyone. I've always stuck up for this because there's a history of officers out of uniform and in mismatched uniforms in Trek. But, yeah, that's why I support it. Because the IP supports it and it enhances gameplay.
By all means though, I support limiting everyone's ability to impact everyone else, either in an unwanted way (open PvP, party poppers) or in a harmful way (which I think is justifiably illegal in some countries).
I think it's safe to say that very few people care about what you do or do not care about. Especially if it's something as nonsensical as thinking party poppers and discoballs need to be limited because they're "impactful" in some meaningful way.