Still don't care. Still getting it. Cry all you want, I don't bother with PVP and I'm pretty sure most of the people in the game don't care either.
It isn't about PvP. I don't PvP anymore (I don't have an hour to wait on the queue). The thing is, they called it a revamp, and it stinks.
The Galaxy Retrofit got practically nothing in the way of improvements. It can separate it's saucer more efficiently now? Big deal. It should have the same exact BO layout as the D'deridex retrofit. It makes perfect sense! Let's make it happen peeps!
The Galaxy X got a to keep its plethora of unwanted engineering boff slots to make it nowhere near on par with the other dreadnoughts (an admitted goal of this revamp)
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
You should see ESD, it's crawling with these things! At 2:18 PM EST, I've found 18 of these things (one of them sporting the whinefest title "U.S.S. Reboot Fail"; seriously, grow up). This is being sold, bub.
It shouldn't be about whether or not it sells. A lot of the stuff sold by wal-mart is cheap garbage. Millions of people buy that cheap garbage, but that doesn't make it a good product. I think that the devs have enough pride in their product to make sure that the quality is up to the level that can be found on other their other ships. They'll take an honest look and realize that hasn't happened with this reboot, and they'll fix it.
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
I applaude you on being able to articulate my general sentiments in a way that my sleep-deprived brain could not.
That is exactly how I see the Dreadnought Cruiser. It's not a zippy 2fast4you raider doing 720s around shuttles, it's not a "mercilessly smash keybinds for ALL the attack patterns!" escort.
It's a brick most definitely, a solid hunk of metal. But a brick with more than a few BFGs attached to it, so I'd like to see people think twice before going after one. Should it be doing damage like an escort? Of course not, but should it be doing more damage than your run-of-the-mill cruiser? I'd like to think so.
On that note, is there any other ship in Star Trek canon that has a giant weapon built into the entire ship?
...Ooooooh wait, right.
(Rhymes with "Over-Powered".)
Hmmm. Well....as I understand it the Negh'var had a siege disruptors. I think the Vor'cha also has heavy forward disruptors. Does the Planet Killer count? Not really it's a flying gun, though originally it had lots of weapons. The Krenim Temporal Weapons Ship (May we never run into that thing). Then there's the Undine planet destroying ships. That's all that comes to mind, other than the big bad bird.
I shared my opinion once, and they banned my FB account from ever commenting on their Facebook page again.
By God Man! What did you say?
Ah I miss DeForest Kelley.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Of course you can, that doesn't mean that you should though.
The turn rate, is a matter of play style and build. I'll slap two fleet RCS consoles on it if I really want to turn. I intend to use it on a Tac, so it would be attack pattern Alpha. Those problems can be worked around. Play it as a sniper and alpha strike from the cloak.
I may have gotten the Avenger if I could stand to look at it. But the Avenger isn't the Galaxy-X.
Yes, that play style and build is viable with the current layout. Just not as optimal as if you had a Lt commander tactical station though.
You asked a question and I answered, doesn't mean I agree with it. When I first saw the ship my initial though was some kind of comm array. They do look like cannons up close, but I think it's a silly place. Like they destroyed a Bird of Prey and stuck the wings on either side of the bridge for a trophy.
I prefer the Defiants integrated cannons myself. On the other hand it's not like there isn't space in a Galaxy class for those.
That's fine. I am ok with people not agreeing with me.
Absolutely.
Considering the Guramba's siege mode, the Phaser Lance shutting down the other arrays would make sense. Considering the size of that thing though I have started thinking that it has an independent power core in there.
What's your opinion on power drain?
Because currently the Phaser Lance burns something like 50 when you fire it normally. If it does that on the first hit, and the power continues to bleed out through the firing sequence like normal beam arrays it could be seriously crippling to what we're proposing.
It could work a couple of ways. Each shot would discharge a fifth(assuming five shots in a cycle) of your weapon power until it's depeleted. The power of each shot is determined by how much available weapon power you had at the top of the firing cycle. Firing the spinal phaser would disable other weapons to make all that power available for use by the spinal phaser. Another way is to keep the high power drain, but use eps consoles, and other power management tricks to mitigate the drain, (engineers would see the highest benefit here). Here again, you could get 5 shots per firing cycle, or the cycle ends prematurely when you run out of weapon power. The first method would make all the shots in the cycle the same, but the over all damage output would be variable depending on what the weapon power was at the start of the firing sequence, the second method would give all shots the same base damage, but you might face having fewer shots due to not having enough power.
Of course. But you did not respond to the fact that the Federation for the last 60 years has been fielding more dedicated warship designs even in canon. That doesn't mean that they've stopped exploring, it means they've had to stay on top of things tactically.
Creating prototypes and testbeds, is not the same as full scale production. The defiant is the exception here since there was no way for Star Fleet to dodge the bullet with it. It was a warship pure and simple, calling it an escort was semantics. The bulk of Starfleet ships are exploration vessels that have enough armament to be useful in a combat role.
But Starfleet has always had integrated platforms. There were a couple of episodes of DS9 where the Defiant was doing science stuff, planetary surveys.
The Defiant was not a deep space exploration vessel. Sure you could do survey work within range of a base, but outside of that, it did not have the supply capacity for that.
And don't think that it doesn't go both ways.
The Galaxy being rebuilt into a dreadnaught is the same as the Nova, which was a design competitor with the Defiant design that was originally a heavy torpedo boat that was repurposed into a science ship.
And when the war is over Starfleet can pop off the phaser lance, tear out the extra torpedo stowage, reinstall the science labs, assign some new families and push her back out to the final frontier.
And it isn't like the Galaxy class as a whole is being turned into Dreadnaughts, just some.
But fielding a Dreadnaught retrofit of the Galaxy class does not make them the Terran Empire.
That would be a waste of resources, when you could simply tear down the ship for raw materials, and build a new ship, since now that you have peace, you don't need as many hulls.
A dreadnaught is a mailed fist. It has one purpose, and that is to deliver that huge weapon to a flashpoint undetected. It makes for an ideal terror weapon. That is antithetical to Starfleet's purpose. I doubt that Federation politicians would be happy with that kind of power.
If it exists outside the narrative then why do you keep bringing up the narrative and the canonicity of the ship?
It's a couple separate discussions there.
The first is the assertion that it's a tactical ship and should have an Lt commander tactical slot. (canonicity)
The second is the assertion that it belongs in this universe and fits in the timeline.
I guess it might be confusing if you look at it in a narrow context, and not the multiple discussions happening concurrently.
It's a dreadnaught.
If they didn't want us to expect dreadnaught firing capability they should've called it a heavy cruiser.
I think we had this same argument with the devs when they released the Fleet Assault Cruiser. It had assault in the title.
That said the Federation is 8000 light years across with rapidly approaching a trillion citizens. Starfleet is probably something like 20-30K starships strong. 100 dreadnaughts doesn't really seem unreasonable,
The only other one that I know of that had it was the Birth of the Federation game.
The fact that it doesn't have crisply defined specs has nothing to do with its right to exist. What it means is the devs have to use their imagination. Not optimal I agree, but regardless of whether you hate it, it's still a part of Next Generation lore and is just as valid as anything else.
And I agree it should have innate base warp 13 transwarp.
Agreed, calling it a dreadnaught was .....uninspired maybe? (I prefer dumb though) :P
I don't recall having any issue with the assault cruiser...maybe others did. It's still a cruiser, just with more tactical flexibility.
I don't think that Starfleet has that many ships. According to the fluff in the path to 2409 Starfleet had problems with not having enough starships to deal with the Romulan/Klingon Border issue, dealing with Nausciaan raiders on the Klingon/Gorn borders, and having enough shps to conduct exploration/survey. I think that the number is actually around a thousand or so ships. Also, remember in DS9: Sacrifice of Angels, that they had to stop the Dominion from breaking through the wormhole with that huge fleet of over two thousand ships. As I recall the Federation fleet was outnumbered something like two to one against the defending Cardassian/Dominion fleet. I would assume that Starfleet planners are smart enough to throw as many starships as practical at a desperate fight like that, and not go in undergunned.
I don't have any hard numbers though, just extrapolating rough numbers from what was shown. Is there a table of organization that shows numbers for Starfleet? It might be useful in later discussions.
I don't hate the dreadnaught at all. I think its a cool ship. My issues with it is it can't do what it did in the show, and people are trying to make it something that it isn't. That goes for Cryptic too :mad:
Well we've been asking for that for years. Maybe they're gonna change directions in the future or near future and maybe not. I'd love more diplomacy. I would love for the rep system and your rank in the DOFF system to actually affect the way the world responds to you more. Not just if you're at ambassador rank you have an easier time negotiating with the ambassadors on DS9, or keeping the Acamar from killing each other (which should award you diplomatic points no matter how small, instead of it being trashed by getting jumped by the Romulans). If I'm tier 5 in Romulan rep the Tal Shiar should run or be willing to negotiate. If I have a top tier espionage rating I should get tips from my crew on who has what in the Nequencia trading mission. If my military rating is high....well Klingons and Hirogen should randomly attack me to take my hide as a trophy, accomplishments should matter.
But for now, that's not the case.
I know. Shooty stuff is easier to sell to [spacebar] heroes though.
I agree with your idea here. The reputation, and the commendation ranks should count for something useful.
Cryptic brought the GX into the game and specifically touted it as being a warship to fight the war against the Klingons. (and yes, to make mad money on it from all the people who would buy 5 account ans a monthly sub to get it from referral and then again from those who'd buy it from the C store.)
The End.
That is it really, you can argue about canon all you want, the fact is: cryptic brought the ship in as warship, still touts it as warship and even did not shy away from actually making the grandiose announcement that they bring this ship up to par with the other dreads in the game.
Sir, the Galaxy X does not hold a candle to the Jemmy dread and is not even close to coming withing viewing distance of the Scimitar.
Now, Purely stat wise the GX is workable as a low end FAW boat or as a TRIBBLE escort carrier.
However the lame BOff seating severely limits the player in his options. And that is bad.
Exchanging the LT tac and LT com engineering slots would have been entirely sufficient.
On a side note:
No, the antennas on the Galaxy saucer are not cannons. No sane engineer would place weapons at that location, where the own ship bars half a hemisphere of field of view...
I know nobody really reads, these comments, but i wanted to say that i think it would be cool if the player could choose to fly the saucer section or the stardrive section when they engage saucer or chevron separation, similar to the multi-vector assault mode options.
Cryptic brought the GX into the game and specifically touted it as being a warship to fight the war against the Klingons. (and yes, to make mad money on it from all the people who would buy 5 account ans a monthly sub to get it from referral and then again from those who'd buy it from the C store.)
The End.
That is it really, you can argue about canon all you want, the fact is: cryptic brought the ship in as warship, still touts it as warship and even did not shy away from actually making the grandiose announcement that they bring this ship up to par with the other dreads in the game.
Sir, the Galaxy X does not hold a candle to the Jemmy dread and is not even close to coming withing viewing distance of the Scimitar.
Now, Purely stat wise the GX is workable as a low end FAW boat or as a TRIBBLE escort carrier.
However the lame BOff seating severely limits the player in his options. And that is bad.
Exchanging the LT tac and LT com engineering slots would have been entirely sufficient.
On a side note:
No, the antennas on the Galaxy saucer are not cannons. No sane engineer would place weapons at that location, where the own ship bars half a hemisphere of field of view...
Show where they used the word warship. I don't recall seeing that in the description or the Blog. I got mine when it was first introduced, and don't recall it being called a warship then.
The Galaxy-X is a Cruiser (Engineering) Dreadnaught.
The boff seating limits the player in his options tactically. You simply have more engineering flexibility with the current set up.
Let me break this to you now...A Lt commander tactical slot will not magically bring this boat up to par with the Scimitar nor the JHDC. The way you are going to get that kind of performance is with the same layout those two ships have. If you want that, then fly those ships.
In case this has escaped you: I am unhappy with the Galaxy-X for a different reason. I do not like what Cryptic has done with it.
You don't get to close a discussion because it's inconvenient or makes you unhappy.
I dont know if im the only one who noticed... but Cryptic didnt fix an error in the Gal X model which is there for more then a Year now... The cannon shaft on the down side of the saucer is still not in the center... its too much on the right. Does no one else see that?
Show where they used the word warship. I don't recall seeing that in the description or the Blog. I got mine when it was first introduced, and don't recall it being called a warship then.
The Galaxy-X is a Cruiser (Engineering) Dreadnaught.
The boff seating limits the player in his options tactically. You simply have more engineering flexibility with the current set up.
Let me break this to you now...A Lt commander tactical slot will not magically bring this boat up to par with the Scimitar nor the JHDC. The way you are going to get that kind of performance is with the same layout those two ships have. If you want that, then fly those ships.
In case this has escaped you: I am unhappy with the Galaxy-X for a different reason. I do not like what Cryptic has done with it.
You don't get to close a discussion because it's inconvenient or makes you unhappy.
A dreadnaught is a type of battleship which happens to be a warship. And it will never be a proper one without a lt cmdr tac station. Don't blame the overwhelming demand for it, blame cryptic for 1 labeling it a dreadnaught (more of a heavy cruiser) and not giving it the strong arm a dreadnaught deserves.
I think part of the problem is the Star Trek franchise itself. Let's be honest, Star Trek is not the best example of consistency. The way uniforms, ship roles, etc. change from series to series leaves a lot open to interpretation for fans and devs.
Star Fleet is a peaceful organization of explorers whose ships are not warships, but can somehow always match or best the ships of warring races like the Klingons, Romulans, Jem Hadar, Borg, etc. This is partially done through good old human creativity and also good sci-fi writers who recognize the need for Starfleet to actually survive these battles...:)
And then you have random events like the Galaxy X appearing once in a possible future that obviously does not come to fruition. To be honest, this ship should not exist in a cannon timeline, such as STO. But it is a game and fans really wanted it so CBS/Cryptic green lit it. So I can see where Cryptic envisions this ship sticking with the general cruiser line of abilities while fans want it to be more of a warship and true dreadnaught.
Cryptic tries to keep a sense of cannon and consistency in the game, but they are not perfect and it does not always go as planned...and that is ok...it is just a game. They will never please everyone and that is life. Kudos to them for even going back to an old ship and trying to update it. I am fairly new to the game, about 1 year in, but it appears to me they did listen to some of the feedback, and some not so much. If you are really unhappy with it, don't buy it. Cryptic will notice how many or how little new Galaxy ships are sold and they will make change decisions based on that data.
I am not trying to suck up to Cryptic, just sharing my view. I think some fans are overreacting, but there are others who have legitimate gripes and hopefully Cryptic will address these. Just my opinion and I hope we an keep up the good and civil discussions.;)
A dreadnaught is a type of battleship which happens to be a warship. And it will never be a proper one without a lt cmdr tac station. Don't blame the overwhelming demand for it, blame cryptic for 1 labeling it a dreadnaught (more of a heavy cruiser) and not giving it the strong arm a dreadnaught deserves.
Really would have made things easier if Cryptic had put all Tac-heavy cruisers (Or all ships claiming to be damage-oriented tanks) into a single classification. Though I don't know if I could reconcile the Galaxy-X's array of giant weapons with Heavy Cruisers such as the Cheyenne or Excelsior.
Either way, the Dreadnought label does seem fitting for this game, and how ships are classified here. So I'd certainly like it to see this ship get more of a reason to have this title.
The gal x gets compared to the scim with good reason. They are suppose to be that big scary ship for their faction.
The gal x does not need to be a scim. I'm not sure it even needs a Lt TAC boff slot.
What it DOES need is SOMETHING for a scim pilot to be jealous of. Something that makes them go "man I wish I had that."
The lance is cool but it is a gimmick. Change the cool down to 30 seconds or a minute. With the lance the X should do more damage per minute with phaser weapons than any other damage type. As is you can ignore the lance and use ap or plasma and do more damage per minute than if you use phaser and the lance. You should want to use phasers on the X because they are BETTER, not just to play with a gimmick.
You had to put a hanger bay on it... At least give us something cool to put in it. Something better than rom drones. Something a rom player would wish they could use.
Hanger pet
Defiant
Max 1 active per bay
Gal x only
Quad phaser cannon
Phaser dhc
Phaser dbb
Quantom torps
Phaser turret
Ep2w
Crf
Beam overload
Cloaks When the gal x does.
People would eat this stuff up and also probably thank you for it.
A dreadnaught is a type of battleship which happens to be a warship. And it will never be a proper one without a lt cmdr tac station. Don't blame the overwhelming demand for it, blame cryptic for 1 labeling it a dreadnaught (more of a heavy cruiser) and not giving it the strong arm a dreadnaught deserves.
I said it before, that it was a bad idea for Cryptic to attach dreadnaught to this ship.
Yes, a dreadnaught is another name for battleship for the rest of us. Cryptic for some reason thought it was just a cool name to slap on a ship that isn't one.
I don't place any blame for anyone wanting it to have more firepower. The fault is Cryptic's for raising expectations.
I just happen to have a different view of how to accomplish that, and am willing to discuss the issue.
When someone tries to take me to task over having a discussion, I don't take kindly to it.
The gal x gets compared to the scim with good reason. They are suppose to be that big scary ship for their faction.
The gal x does not need to be a scim. I'm not sure it even needs a Lt TAC boff slot.
What it DOES need is SOMETHING for a scim pilot to be jealous of. Something that makes them go "man I wish I had that."
The lance is cool but it is a gimmick. Change the cool down to 30 seconds or a minute. With the lance the X should do more damage per minute with phaser weapons than any other damage type. As is you can ignore the lance and use ap or plasma and do more damage per minute than if you use phaser and the lance. You should want to use phasers on the X because they are BETTER, not just to play with a gimmick.
You had to put a hanger bay on it... At least give us something cool to put in it. Something better than rom drones. Something a rom player would wish they could use.
Hanger pet
Defiant
Max 1 active per bay
Gal x only
Quad phaser cannon
Phaser dhc
Phaser dbb
Quantom torps
Phaser turret
Ep2w
Crf
Beam overload
Cloaks When the gal x does.
People would eat this stuff up and also probably thank you for it.
The only thing that the Galaxy-X really should have in my opinion, is to have the spinal phaser work like it did in the show. It blew right through the hull of a Negh'var like it's shield wasn't even there. It punched 5 shots through it in under a minute. Not one shot every 3 minutes, that doesn't do all that much to a shielded target if it hits. It didn't need cannons or any amazing tactical ability to do that. The only weapon that the Enterprise fired was that amazing bfg. That's what we should have.
It also could travel at warp 13...when is mine going to get that? Also I seriously doubt that the cloak was a modular component (It should be integrated).
If it could do that, I think people would be satisfied.
The only thing that the Galaxy-X really should have in my opinion, is to have the spinal phaser work like it did in the show. It blew right through the hull of a Negh'var like it's shield wasn't even there. It punched 5 shots through it in under a minute. Not one shot every 3 minutes, that doesn't do all that much to a shielded target if it hits. It didn't need cannons or any amazing tactical ability to do that. The only weapon that the Enterprise fired was that amazing bfg. That's what we should have.
It also could travel at warp 13...when is mine going to get that? Also I seriously doubt that the cloak was a modular component (It should be integrated).
If it could do that, I think people would be satisfied.
I still think the hangar is stupid.
By the way...Where is the KDF's scary ship?
At least everyone can agree it needs something
And as someone that pvps a little here and there and does not play Klink....i fear those bop buffs
That's fine. I am ok with people not agreeing with me.
That's the point of debate and discussion. I feel that everyone agrees with you all the time either you're stating something obvious (the sky on a clear day on Earth is blue) or completely meaningless.
It could work a couple of ways. Each shot would discharge a fifth(assuming five shots in a cycle) of your weapon power until it's depeleted. The power of each shot is determined by how much available weapon power you had at the top of the firing cycle. Firing the spinal phaser would disable other weapons to make all that power available for use by the spinal phaser. Another way is to keep the high power drain, but use eps consoles, and other power management tricks to mitigate the drain, (engineers would see the highest benefit here). Here again, you could get 5 shots per firing cycle, or the cycle ends prematurely when you run out of weapon power. The first method would make all the shots in the cycle the same, but the over all damage output would be variable depending on what the weapon power was at the start of the firing sequence, the second method would give all shots the same base damage, but you might face having fewer shots due to not having enough power.
Even with EPS consoles recovering the drain between shots isn't gonna help much since power from beams doesn't really replenish until the weapon stops firing. If you fire the lance at 125 in that model it would be 125, 115, 105, 95, 85. I suppose that's workable especially if the first shot crushes the shields.
Creating prototypes and testbeds, is not the same as full scale production. The defiant is the exception here since there was no way for Star Fleet to dodge the bullet with it. It was a warship pure and simple, calling it an escort was semantics. The bulk of Starfleet ships are exploration vessels that have enough armament to be useful in a combat role.
But the Prometheus is in full production now. And according to the ENT episode Azati Prime it was still operational in the 25th century.
The Defiant was not a deep space exploration vessel. Sure you could do survey work within range of a base, but outside of that, it did not have the supply capacity for that.
My point wasn't that it was optimal, but that all Starfleet vessels can serve as science vessels as that's what it means to be a Starfleet vessel.
That would be a waste of resources, when you could simply tear down the ship for raw materials, and build a new ship, since now that you have peace, you don't need as many hulls.
I disagree, sure you can build four five small fast ships like the Defiant with the resources that it takes to build a single Galaxy class, but I don't think that it is more resource, energy, or time efficient to dismantle a Galaxy class and repurpose the materials into a new ship versus modding a Galaxy with a third nacelle and a large heavy weapon. And probably new shields (a 1.1 shield modifier that's it?).
A dreadnaught is a mailed fist. It has one purpose, and that is to deliver that huge weapon to a flashpoint undetected. It makes for an ideal terror weapon. That is antithetical to Starfleet's purpose. I doubt that Federation politicians would be happy with that kind of power.
I consulted the wik on this one, for a historic perspective.
The dreadnought was the predominant type of battleship in the early 20th century. The first of the kind, the Royal Navy's Dreadnought, made such a strong impression on people's minds when it was launched in 1906 that similar battleships built subsequently were referred to generically as "dreadnoughts", and earlier battleships became known as pre-dreadnoughts. The Dreadnought's design had two revolutionary features: an "all-big-gun" armament scheme, with an unprecedented number of heavy-calibre guns, and steam turbine propulsion.[a] As dreadnoughts became a crucial symbol of national power, the arrival of these new warships renewed the naval arms race between the United Kingdom and Germany. Dreadnought races sprang up around the world, including in South America, lasting up to the beginning of World War I.
Now while the Federation isn't the type of power to start an arms race with her competitors the Federation is also not the type of power that's going to simply sit back and be outgunned. We don't send Starfleet officers to die after all. Starfleet's purpose is exploration, but due to the fact that they are the ones out there on the frontier at the borders, coming into contact with hostiles first, their other primary purpose is to defend the Federation. I'm like Teddy, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."
You see it automatically as a terror weapon. I see it as a stand off weapon. Strategic deterrence. We are the Federation and we're not gonna launch biogenic weapons (barring Sisko but he was trying to prove a damn point), we don't touch thalaron weaponry at all, nor will we use trilithium torpedoes on your sun, or isolytic subspace weaponry. But don't get us wrong, we can build big ships, with big guns, that you will lose to.
I'm not sure where I stand on a Dreadnaught with a cloak though. That said for canon's sake the cloak should be integrated. Just saying. I'm for damn sure not a Pressman Starfleet officer though.
It's a couple separate discussions there.
The first is the assertion that it's a tactical ship and should have an Lt commander tactical slot. (canonicity)
The second is the assertion that it belongs in this universe and fits in the timeline.
I guess it might be confusing if you look at it in a narrow context, and not the multiple discussions happening concurrently.
That's fair enough, it's not clear cut enough that intelligent people can't come down on different sides of it. That's why I hate temporal mechanics.
Agreed, calling it a dreadnaught was .....uninspired maybe? (I prefer dumb though) :P
I don't recall having any issue with the assault cruiser...maybe others did. It's still a cruiser, just with more tactical flexibility.
Well seeing as how it has the largest gun in Federation history I can see why they'd come to that conclusion.
It was some of the same issues. Normal Rear Admiral Assault Cruisers have the same LT-Ens Tac setup, but the ship is restricted to beams and you can't use the strongest beam skills with that set up. And it had reached a point where the ship that was supposed to be the tank couldn't draw enough aggro to actually tank. The argument for the refit was that it should be more tactically capable. Which ultimately mercifully happened and I love it.
I don't think that Starfleet has that many ships. According to the fluff in the path to 2409 Starfleet had problems with not having enough starships to deal with the Romulan/Klingon Border issue, dealing with Nausciaan raiders on the Klingon/Gorn borders, and having enough shps to conduct exploration/survey. I think that the number is actually around a thousand or so ships. Also, remember in DS9: Sacrifice of Angels, that they had to stop the Dominion from breaking through the wormhole with that huge fleet of over two thousand ships. As I recall the Federation fleet was outnumbered something like two to one against the defending Cardassian/Dominion fleet. I would assume that Starfleet planners are smart enough to throw as many starships as practical at a desperate fight like that, and not go in undergunned.
I don't have any hard numbers though, just extrapolating rough numbers from what was shown. Is there a table of organization that shows numbers for Starfleet? It might be useful in later discussions.
8000 light years in diameter and only the Okudas and God knows how much volume. It isn't logical for the Federation to have left all their other borders unguarded to fight the Dominion. Even at Warp 9.99 it takes a year to cross the Federation. At the Enterprise-D's top speed Warp 9.6 that's something like 5 years.
The 2800 Dominion ships would've been enough to finish the war against the allies. I think that wasn't because Starfleet only has 5000 ships or so, but because they only had 2000 that they could get to the front. The Dominion War had a pretty healthy build up. Starfleet had a few years to recall ships from the frontier and reorganize their fleet deployment to get people to the areas around the Cardassian border. That was accelerated with the war with the Klingons. But that doesn't mean they redeployed the entire fleet. The Dominion was going to win with those ships because of concentration of force.
Starfleet and the Klingons had also ground their edges against each other as well, so they went into the Dominion War with less ships then they had to begin with.
I will say that in The Motion Picture, the 1701 was the only ship that could intercept V'ger, but that was on short notice for something coming straight at Earth at high speed. The idea seems to be that in peacetime most Starfleet vessels are out exploring the unknown and patrolling the borders and that only in times of war do they come together. On the same note the NCC-2000 was still 15 years away, so I think Starfleet back then was much smaller as was the Federation. And the 1701 was 25 years old as it was. Starfleet shipbuilding was either far less capable (easy as replicators hadn't been invented yet) and/or they focused on fewer high quality ships. Something that ramped up in the next century.
Star Trek is based on the Horatio Hornblower age of discovery ideal that one ship will be out at the edge of the unknown and be the sole representative of their nation there. But for a war that depiction must shift so you get to see how big this thing really is. Patrolling Federation space must be a truly titanic task.
If we're gonna look at one thing we should look at this, I think this is the greatest indicator.
The Excelsior class is still in service. The Excelsior is NCC-2000. Assuming that most ships in that era have relatively long service lives, if you want to say that most starships after her stayed in service to the Dominion war era, then we have the Prometheus whose plaque and MSD says NX-74913. That's what? 72913 Starfleet vessels built in a century.
This is also from show runner Ronald B. Moore in 1997. Size Edit
Regarding the quantity of starships Starfleet had in use in the late 2370s, Moore commented, "I wouldn't be surprised if Starfleet had 30,000 ships or so." (AOL chat, 1997) This was based on reasoning that the USS Hood has a registry of NCC-42296 while the USS Voyager is NCC-74656.
During Operation Return, Starfleet attempted to prevent the Dominion from bringing down the minefield, which would have allowed 2800 ships to come through the wormhole, which would allow for a Dominion total victory. Meaning that since, at that time of the war, the forces of both sides were about equal, the true size of the Dominion forces was much larger than Starfleet.
Doctor Zimmerman claimed that there were 675 EMH Mark I instances active in Starfleet before they were taken off duty during the Dominion War. (VOY: "Life Line")
I don't hate the dreadnaught at all. I think its a cool ship. My issues with it is it can't do what it did in the show, and people are trying to make it something that it isn't. That goes for Cryptic too :mad:
I suppose I understand that. I'm certainly not one of the people doing the tier 5 Connie thing (seems weird to me).
But you have to admit, as it is now, it can't even do what it did in the show.
I know. Shooty stuff is easier to sell to [spacebar] heroes though.
I agree with your idea here. The reputation, and the commendation ranks should count for something useful.
Man that would be such a dream. Especially to fly into a battle against a bunch of Orion ships, they see the registry and turn around and haul tail. No shots fired.
No, the antennas on the Galaxy saucer are not cannons. No sane engineer would place weapons at that location, where the own ship bars half a hemisphere of field of view...
I have no desire to argue against that, but they did do the same thing with the Phaser Lance y'know. Which could be why they would be there, to cover the arc.
But at the edge of the saucer would still be better. That said they're cannons, they only point in one direction anyway the way Star Trek starships use them.
I know nobody really reads, these comments, but i wanted to say that i think it would be cool if the player could choose to fly the saucer section or the stardrive section when they engage saucer or chevron separation, similar to the multi-vector assault mode options.
I said that a while ago and I agree completely, nice to see someone else thinking along the same lines. We can do it with the Prometheus. Honestly I'd like to equip the two sections too. The galaxy Saucer has an aft Photon torpedo launcher(page 128 and 130 in TNG Tech manual) , I'd like to slap a Romulan Hyper Plasma in there instead.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
After thinking about it for a while and reading some of the back and forth, I'm hoping that the reason they didn't do too much is because of larger game changes coming later on.
I'm hoping that by keeping the Galaxies as more tanky ships, that it means that they're either going to rebalance gameplay to need other roles than just DPS or maybe introduce new content that needs more than just DPS. I kind of feel that if they had just stuck a Lt. Com tac on the X that it would have basically been Cryptic giving up on any sort of movement away from the DPS fest we have now. On the other hand, the X is supposed to be more of a tac dread than anything...so idk, mixed on that one.
I'm really hoping that this is more of a "big picture" change than just being stubborn and snubbing Galaxy/X users. Of course I could just be overly optimistic about it. I hope I'm not though.
The lance is a bulky gun strapped onto the ship, you are not gonna make better use of it when its put to the absolute front. Its till not gonna swivel up or down.
Cannons, and i would actually make an argument against having those on the ship in the first place (same as i would argue that saucer sep has no place on the GX), would have to be placed into the front of the saucer to maximize the frontal assault.
That aside, it would look even more goofy than these big bolts firing from the antennas.
Heck, i wish the venture saucer would feature a roll bar where the cannons and torpedoes are emplaced.... Miranda style, but more rounded....
The Yamato From Klingon Academy, a Federation Battleship that was everything the GX is not.
It tanks like a boss, has ridiculous frontal firepower {this sucka carrys 2(!) starbase-grade-phasers(!!) in a weapon pod between the 2(!!!!) secondary hulls and is fed power by 2(!!!!!!!!!!!!) warpcore's. In addition it carrys the standard loadout of way to many phaser beam emitters (no arrays yet...) and a serious amount of photons in the rollbar bottom and top.}
Well, design aesthetics aside i am back to saying:
Cryptic had the opportunity not only to give us a decent dreadnought, but also add a new skin and model and update the whole package with the newer tech. Mode switching, integrated weapons etc.
They could have easily resold that as a package, and integrated a fleet galaxy X and Fleet Gal R update with the usual console and stat upgrades for the already existing ships.
But they did not.
They slapped a freaking hangar on it. They reused the bloody doomsday weapon gun. They did not refurbish the lance, they failed to at least make the boff seating better.
And they have the nerve to try and sell their LAZY HACK JOB as a fckn achievement!
There was no effort or thought spend on this reboot. Wait i must rectify that: They spend much thought on making this as insulting as possible.
Well at least this revamp is something.. still would like to see the lance fixed as it usually either misses or does virtually no damage to a ship unless it doesn't have any shields. The fact that the saucer separation and reconnection "Should" no be using whatever saucer you're using is nice.
Now how about giving the same workover to the Prometheus Class.. Its never reconnected using your selected parts.
Fleet Admiral Nyte T'challa-United Federation of Planets-Task Force Draco-Tactical "No matter where you go, there you are." "I found a bug in Beta, Cryptic squished it. STO Founder and Proud LTS member."
After thinking about it for a while and reading some of the back and forth, I'm hoping that the reason they didn't do too much is because of larger game changes coming later on.
I'm hoping that by keeping the Galaxies as more tanky ships, that it means that they're either going to rebalance gameplay to need other roles than just DPS or maybe introduce new content that needs more than just DPS. I kind of feel that if they had just stuck a Lt. Com tac on the X that it would have basically been Cryptic giving up on any sort of movement away from the DPS fest we have now. On the other hand, the X is supposed to be more of a tac dread than anything...so idk, mixed on that one.
I'm really hoping that this is more of a "big picture" change than just being stubborn and snubbing Galaxy/X users. Of course I could just be overly optimistic about it. I hope I'm not though.
Well even if they change the game content, there is a problem.
Right now, everybody says the the Galaxy-R is a good tank. And that's basically true, mind you. But, it's only true if you build it as a solo tank.
Imho a really effective tank needs Tactical Team, Beam: Fire At Will and Attack Pattern: Delta. That's a tank's bread&butter from my point of view.
Right now the tactical options of the Gal-R are so limited, it can't pull that off. Without Fire At Will, all it can do is pull single aggro. Without AP: D (or AP: O..), other cruisers actually do a better job.
So it's just not enough being hard to kill. You have to have the abilities and options to actually do your job.
Of course you could rely on some other ship's AP: Delta, but the game is lightyears away from that kind of teamwork, it would simply not work for most players (which is a shame, but that's the way it is, extremely casualized), and it would be a crutch anyway. You're better off using a cruiser that's one Ensign engineering short but gets the job done. Like the Odyssey or the Fleet Ambassador.
That's the problem with the Gal-R. I don't want it to have more tactical skills to deal more damage. I would like it to be able to do what it was designed for.
Without a crutch like other people's AP: D or a point defense console to pull group aggro..
After thinking about it for a while and reading some of the back and forth, I'm hoping that the reason they didn't do too much is because of larger game changes coming later on.
I'm hoping that by keeping the Galaxies as more tanky ships, that it means that they're either going to rebalance gameplay to need other roles than just DPS or maybe introduce new content that needs more than just DPS. I kind of feel that if they had just stuck a Lt. Com tac on the X that it would have basically been Cryptic giving up on any sort of movement away from the DPS fest we have now. On the other hand, the X is supposed to be more of a tac dread than anything...so idk, mixed on that one.
I'm really hoping that this is more of a "big picture" change than just being stubborn and snubbing Galaxy/X users. Of course I could just be overly optimistic about it. I hope I'm not though.
If that was the case then I can appreciate the reasoning to an extent, and also the secrecy. But I can't get past the dreadnaught designation, the tactical focus, but without the tactical seating.
I can understand the standard Assault Cruiser getting the Lt-ens tac seating. It fits perfectly with original design. It's branching. The Assault Cruiser is a cruiser with engineer focused seating. It's tactical because it has two Tac boffs on deck, but not incredibly powerful ones. The Star Cruiser has two science boff seats but not incredibly powerful ones. These are ships that have a primary and a light flavor of a secondary skill set. That's fine, Science ships and escorts have the exact same variation. You can get an engineer flavor patrol escort or a science flavored advanced escort. A tactical flavored Recon Science vessel, or an engineer style Deep Space science vessel.
That's fine and it all makes sense.
I think the Galaxy-R is attempting to stay in the same design philosophy as the long range retrofit, the Voyager-R with its ablative hull armor, which has 3 science boffs. But low level science abilities are more useful in general. And don't have as much overlap. The Defiant-R is the same with three tactical boffs. That's how they've set up the TNG era "hero" ships.
But the Dreadnaught is a different animal. There isn't actually a parallel in the other classes it's a unique ship. That said, it could probably parallel with the Advanced Research Retrofit, the Nebula, which is a science ship with a LtCdr engineer slot, a commander science, an ens science, a Lt tac and a Lt Universal. That's an incredible cruiser science hybrid right there. It's rather sad that the equivalent of that is the layout what the Avenger got. Heck an ens engineer-commander engineer with a Lt Tac and an Lt Universal would've worked out better than the current one. It's not really an update to current standards.
Giving it the Avenger's boff layout wouldn't have made them identical. The Avenger has higher mobility less tankiness in the ship's base stats and there would be a difference between five cannons vs the Phaser lance. Actually just take off the dual cannon ability for the G-X and they're different.
Doesn't always miss; just finished a fleet alert where:
[Combat (Self)] Your Phaser Spinal Lance deals 29789 Phaser Damage(Critical) to Ureon.
Not bad considering it was a completely unbuffed shot.
But it's accuracy is generally poor.
Terrifying thing. I did 30k crit with a BO3 on a Dual Beam Bank three mk XI phaser relays (one purple two blue). I'm not even kidding.
The Lance should consistently outperform a BO3 otherwise what's the point.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
A dreadnaught is a type of battleship which happens to be a warship. And it will never be a proper one without a lt cmdr tac station. Don't blame the overwhelming demand for it, blame cryptic for 1 labeling it a dreadnaught (more of a heavy cruiser) and not giving it the strong arm a dreadnaught deserves.
Really would have made things easier if Cryptic had put all Tac-heavy cruisers (Or all ships claiming to be damage-oriented tanks) into a single classification. Though I don't know if I could reconcile the Galaxy-X's array of giant weapons with Heavy Cruisers such as the Cheyenne or Excelsior.
Either way, the Dreadnought label does seem fitting for this game, and how ships are classified here. So I'd certainly like it to see this ship get more of a reason to have this title.
I said it before, that it was a bad idea for Cryptic to attach dreadnaught to this ship.
Yes, a dreadnaught is another name for battleship for the rest of us. Cryptic for some reason thought it was just a cool name to slap on a ship that isn't one.
Just gonna throw this out there:
Cryptic REFUSES to place the Battleship title on ANY playable ship. The few ships that have claim to that title are either:
1) Not playable (Jem'hadar Battleship, Typhoon-class anyone?) or
2) Have their name changed for the playable versions (Bulwark, D'Deridex (admittedly the NPC ones were changed with the release of LoR though), the MU battleships, Vo'quv etc).
I don't really get it. But hey, it's up to them XD.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
If that was the case then I can appreciate the reasoning to an extent, and also the secrecy. But I can't get past the dreadnaught designation, the tactical focus, but without the tactical seating.
I can understand the standard Assault Cruiser getting the Lt-ens tac seating. It fits perfectly with original design. It's branching. The Assault Cruiser is a cruiser with engineer focused seating. It's tactical because it has two Tac boffs on deck, but not incredibly powerful ones. The Star Cruiser has two science boff seats but not incredibly powerful ones. These are ships that have a primary and a light flavor of a secondary skill set. That's fine, Science ships and escorts have the exact same variation. You can get an engineer flavor patrol escort or a science flavored advanced escort. A tactical flavored Recon Science vessel, or an engineer style Deep Space science vessel.
That's fine and it all makes sense.
I think the Galaxy-R is attempting to stay in the same design philosophy as the long range retrofit, the Voyager-R with its ablative hull armor, which has 3 science boffs. But low level science abilities are more useful in general. And don't have as much overlap. The Defiant-R is the same with three tactical boffs. That's how they've set up the TNG era "hero" ships.
But the Dreadnaught is a different animal. There isn't actually a parallel in the other classes it's a unique ship. That said, it could probably parallel with the Advanced Research Retrofit, the Nebula, which is a science ship with a LtCdr engineer slot, a commander science, an ens science, a Lt tac and a Lt Universal. That's an incredible cruiser science hybrid right there. It's rather sad that the equivalent of that is the layout what the Avenger got. Heck an ens engineer-commander engineer with a Lt Tac and an Lt Universal would've worked out better than the current one. It's not really an update to current standards.
Giving it the Avenger's boff layout wouldn't have made them identical. The Avenger has higher mobility less tankiness in the ship's base stats and there would be a difference between five cannons vs the Phaser lance. Actually just take off the dual cannon ability for the G-X and they're different.
Terrifying thing. I did 30k crit with a BO3 on a Dual Beam Bank three mk XI phaser relays (one purple two blue). I'm not even kidding.
The Lance should consistently outperform a BO3 otherwise what's the point.
The Kumari wing cannons do 30k crits not including the R-Type platforms output. And with slight modifications they could be turned INTO a lance weapon for the dreadnought.
Comments
Gofasternow needs to go slower and use some logical thought. So far he's a train wreck cheerleader for this non-product.
It isn't about PvP. I don't PvP anymore (I don't have an hour to wait on the queue). The thing is, they called it a revamp, and it stinks.
The Galaxy Retrofit got practically nothing in the way of improvements. It can separate it's saucer more efficiently now? Big deal. It should have the same exact BO layout as the D'deridex retrofit. It makes perfect sense! Let's make it happen peeps!
The Galaxy X got a to keep its plethora of unwanted engineering boff slots to make it nowhere near on par with the other dreadnoughts (an admitted goal of this revamp)
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
It shouldn't be about whether or not it sells. A lot of the stuff sold by wal-mart is cheap garbage. Millions of people buy that cheap garbage, but that doesn't make it a good product. I think that the devs have enough pride in their product to make sure that the quality is up to the level that can be found on other their other ships. They'll take an honest look and realize that hasn't happened with this reboot, and they'll fix it.
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
Galaxy Dreadnought Cruiser Ensign Universal BOff seat. was Low even for Cryptic #$%@!
We all know it needs a Universal Lt Cmdr BOff seat
The Set Bonus was a Joke Personally.....A 3 piece set bonus would have been nice.
Personally I beleve it needs a Buff in + Starship wepons and Phaser Damage not just 4th Tac slot.
Galaxy was the first class to be designed Type X phaser arrays.. witch means Star Base array.
Galaxy does have Battle bridge.. mybee thats whair the Universal Lt Cmdr BOff seat is hideing.
Did the ship crew play poker Galaxy?
By God Man! What did you say?
Ah I miss DeForest Kelley.
Yes, that play style and build is viable with the current layout. Just not as optimal as if you had a Lt commander tactical station though.
That's fine. I am ok with people not agreeing with me.
It could work a couple of ways. Each shot would discharge a fifth(assuming five shots in a cycle) of your weapon power until it's depeleted. The power of each shot is determined by how much available weapon power you had at the top of the firing cycle. Firing the spinal phaser would disable other weapons to make all that power available for use by the spinal phaser. Another way is to keep the high power drain, but use eps consoles, and other power management tricks to mitigate the drain, (engineers would see the highest benefit here). Here again, you could get 5 shots per firing cycle, or the cycle ends prematurely when you run out of weapon power. The first method would make all the shots in the cycle the same, but the over all damage output would be variable depending on what the weapon power was at the start of the firing sequence, the second method would give all shots the same base damage, but you might face having fewer shots due to not having enough power.
Creating prototypes and testbeds, is not the same as full scale production. The defiant is the exception here since there was no way for Star Fleet to dodge the bullet with it. It was a warship pure and simple, calling it an escort was semantics. The bulk of Starfleet ships are exploration vessels that have enough armament to be useful in a combat role.
The Defiant was not a deep space exploration vessel. Sure you could do survey work within range of a base, but outside of that, it did not have the supply capacity for that.
And it isn't like the Galaxy class as a whole is being turned into Dreadnaughts, just some.
But fielding a Dreadnaught retrofit of the Galaxy class does not make them the Terran Empire.
I will cut this short:
Cryptic brought the GX into the game and specifically touted it as being a warship to fight the war against the Klingons. (and yes, to make mad money on it from all the people who would buy 5 account ans a monthly sub to get it from referral and then again from those who'd buy it from the C store.)
The End.
That is it really, you can argue about canon all you want, the fact is: cryptic brought the ship in as warship, still touts it as warship and even did not shy away from actually making the grandiose announcement that they bring this ship up to par with the other dreads in the game.
Sir, the Galaxy X does not hold a candle to the Jemmy dread and is not even close to coming withing viewing distance of the Scimitar.
Now, Purely stat wise the GX is workable as a low end FAW boat or as a TRIBBLE escort carrier.
However the lame BOff seating severely limits the player in his options. And that is bad.
Exchanging the LT tac and LT com engineering slots would have been entirely sufficient.
On a side note:
No, the antennas on the Galaxy saucer are not cannons. No sane engineer would place weapons at that location, where the own ship bars half a hemisphere of field of view...
That's pretty sad. Not ignoring anyone, right?!
Show where they used the word warship. I don't recall seeing that in the description or the Blog. I got mine when it was first introduced, and don't recall it being called a warship then.
The Galaxy-X is a Cruiser (Engineering) Dreadnaught.
The boff seating limits the player in his options tactically. You simply have more engineering flexibility with the current set up.
Let me break this to you now...A Lt commander tactical slot will not magically bring this boat up to par with the Scimitar nor the JHDC. The way you are going to get that kind of performance is with the same layout those two ships have. If you want that, then fly those ships.
In case this has escaped you: I am unhappy with the Galaxy-X for a different reason. I do not like what Cryptic has done with it.
You don't get to close a discussion because it's inconvenient or makes you unhappy.
Woah tiger..
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dreadnaught?s=t
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/battleship?s=t
A dreadnaught is a type of battleship which happens to be a warship. And it will never be a proper one without a lt cmdr tac station. Don't blame the overwhelming demand for it, blame cryptic for 1 labeling it a dreadnaught (more of a heavy cruiser) and not giving it the strong arm a dreadnaught deserves.
Star Fleet is a peaceful organization of explorers whose ships are not warships, but can somehow always match or best the ships of warring races like the Klingons, Romulans, Jem Hadar, Borg, etc. This is partially done through good old human creativity and also good sci-fi writers who recognize the need for Starfleet to actually survive these battles...:)
And then you have random events like the Galaxy X appearing once in a possible future that obviously does not come to fruition. To be honest, this ship should not exist in a cannon timeline, such as STO. But it is a game and fans really wanted it so CBS/Cryptic green lit it. So I can see where Cryptic envisions this ship sticking with the general cruiser line of abilities while fans want it to be more of a warship and true dreadnaught.
Cryptic tries to keep a sense of cannon and consistency in the game, but they are not perfect and it does not always go as planned...and that is ok...it is just a game. They will never please everyone and that is life. Kudos to them for even going back to an old ship and trying to update it. I am fairly new to the game, about 1 year in, but it appears to me they did listen to some of the feedback, and some not so much. If you are really unhappy with it, don't buy it. Cryptic will notice how many or how little new Galaxy ships are sold and they will make change decisions based on that data.
I am not trying to suck up to Cryptic, just sharing my view. I think some fans are overreacting, but there are others who have legitimate gripes and hopefully Cryptic will address these. Just my opinion and I hope we an keep up the good and civil discussions.;)
Really would have made things easier if Cryptic had put all Tac-heavy cruisers (Or all ships claiming to be damage-oriented tanks) into a single classification. Though I don't know if I could reconcile the Galaxy-X's array of giant weapons with Heavy Cruisers such as the Cheyenne or Excelsior.
Either way, the Dreadnought label does seem fitting for this game, and how ships are classified here. So I'd certainly like it to see this ship get more of a reason to have this title.
The gal x does not need to be a scim. I'm not sure it even needs a Lt TAC boff slot.
What it DOES need is SOMETHING for a scim pilot to be jealous of. Something that makes them go "man I wish I had that."
The lance is cool but it is a gimmick. Change the cool down to 30 seconds or a minute. With the lance the X should do more damage per minute with phaser weapons than any other damage type. As is you can ignore the lance and use ap or plasma and do more damage per minute than if you use phaser and the lance. You should want to use phasers on the X because they are BETTER, not just to play with a gimmick.
You had to put a hanger bay on it... At least give us something cool to put in it. Something better than rom drones. Something a rom player would wish they could use.
Hanger pet
Defiant
Max 1 active per bay
Gal x only
Quad phaser cannon
Phaser dhc
Phaser dbb
Quantom torps
Phaser turret
Ep2w
Crf
Beam overload
Cloaks When the gal x does.
People would eat this stuff up and also probably thank you for it.
I said it before, that it was a bad idea for Cryptic to attach dreadnaught to this ship.
Yes, a dreadnaught is another name for battleship for the rest of us. Cryptic for some reason thought it was just a cool name to slap on a ship that isn't one.
I don't place any blame for anyone wanting it to have more firepower. The fault is Cryptic's for raising expectations.
I just happen to have a different view of how to accomplish that, and am willing to discuss the issue.
When someone tries to take me to task over having a discussion, I don't take kindly to it.
The only thing that the Galaxy-X really should have in my opinion, is to have the spinal phaser work like it did in the show. It blew right through the hull of a Negh'var like it's shield wasn't even there. It punched 5 shots through it in under a minute. Not one shot every 3 minutes, that doesn't do all that much to a shielded target if it hits. It didn't need cannons or any amazing tactical ability to do that. The only weapon that the Enterprise fired was that amazing bfg. That's what we should have.
It also could travel at warp 13...when is mine going to get that? Also I seriously doubt that the cloak was a modular component (It should be integrated).
If it could do that, I think people would be satisfied.
I still think the hangar is stupid.
By the way...Where is the KDF's scary ship?
At least everyone can agree it needs something
And as someone that pvps a little here and there and does not play Klink....i fear those bop buffs
The ship should not have a hangar. It should have better tac seating and a revamped lance.
Your right it won't happen. Their logic was that the other dreads had bays. If they are forcing the bay on us it should at least get a unique pet.
Lance needs work.
Even with EPS consoles recovering the drain between shots isn't gonna help much since power from beams doesn't really replenish until the weapon stops firing. If you fire the lance at 125 in that model it would be 125, 115, 105, 95, 85. I suppose that's workable especially if the first shot crushes the shields.
But the Prometheus is in full production now. And according to the ENT episode Azati Prime it was still operational in the 25th century.
My point wasn't that it was optimal, but that all Starfleet vessels can serve as science vessels as that's what it means to be a Starfleet vessel.
I disagree, sure you can build four five small fast ships like the Defiant with the resources that it takes to build a single Galaxy class, but I don't think that it is more resource, energy, or time efficient to dismantle a Galaxy class and repurpose the materials into a new ship versus modding a Galaxy with a third nacelle and a large heavy weapon. And probably new shields (a 1.1 shield modifier that's it?).
I consulted the wik on this one, for a historic perspective.
The dreadnought was the predominant type of battleship in the early 20th century. The first of the kind, the Royal Navy's Dreadnought, made such a strong impression on people's minds when it was launched in 1906 that similar battleships built subsequently were referred to generically as "dreadnoughts", and earlier battleships became known as pre-dreadnoughts. The Dreadnought's design had two revolutionary features: an "all-big-gun" armament scheme, with an unprecedented number of heavy-calibre guns, and steam turbine propulsion.[a] As dreadnoughts became a crucial symbol of national power, the arrival of these new warships renewed the naval arms race between the United Kingdom and Germany. Dreadnought races sprang up around the world, including in South America, lasting up to the beginning of World War I.
Now while the Federation isn't the type of power to start an arms race with her competitors the Federation is also not the type of power that's going to simply sit back and be outgunned. We don't send Starfleet officers to die after all. Starfleet's purpose is exploration, but due to the fact that they are the ones out there on the frontier at the borders, coming into contact with hostiles first, their other primary purpose is to defend the Federation. I'm like Teddy, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."
You see it automatically as a terror weapon. I see it as a stand off weapon. Strategic deterrence. We are the Federation and we're not gonna launch biogenic weapons (barring Sisko but he was trying to prove a damn point), we don't touch thalaron weaponry at all, nor will we use trilithium torpedoes on your sun, or isolytic subspace weaponry. But don't get us wrong, we can build big ships, with big guns, that you will lose to.
I'm not sure where I stand on a Dreadnaught with a cloak though. That said for canon's sake the cloak should be integrated. Just saying. I'm for damn sure not a Pressman Starfleet officer though.
That's fair enough, it's not clear cut enough that intelligent people can't come down on different sides of it. That's why I hate temporal mechanics.
Well seeing as how it has the largest gun in Federation history I can see why they'd come to that conclusion.
It was some of the same issues. Normal Rear Admiral Assault Cruisers have the same LT-Ens Tac setup, but the ship is restricted to beams and you can't use the strongest beam skills with that set up. And it had reached a point where the ship that was supposed to be the tank couldn't draw enough aggro to actually tank. The argument for the refit was that it should be more tactically capable. Which ultimately mercifully happened and I love it.
8000 light years in diameter and only the Okudas and God knows how much volume. It isn't logical for the Federation to have left all their other borders unguarded to fight the Dominion. Even at Warp 9.99 it takes a year to cross the Federation. At the Enterprise-D's top speed Warp 9.6 that's something like 5 years.
The 2800 Dominion ships would've been enough to finish the war against the allies. I think that wasn't because Starfleet only has 5000 ships or so, but because they only had 2000 that they could get to the front. The Dominion War had a pretty healthy build up. Starfleet had a few years to recall ships from the frontier and reorganize their fleet deployment to get people to the areas around the Cardassian border. That was accelerated with the war with the Klingons. But that doesn't mean they redeployed the entire fleet. The Dominion was going to win with those ships because of concentration of force.
Starfleet and the Klingons had also ground their edges against each other as well, so they went into the Dominion War with less ships then they had to begin with.
There was a short thread on this subject elsewhere.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=232237
I will say that in The Motion Picture, the 1701 was the only ship that could intercept V'ger, but that was on short notice for something coming straight at Earth at high speed. The idea seems to be that in peacetime most Starfleet vessels are out exploring the unknown and patrolling the borders and that only in times of war do they come together. On the same note the NCC-2000 was still 15 years away, so I think Starfleet back then was much smaller as was the Federation. And the 1701 was 25 years old as it was. Starfleet shipbuilding was either far less capable (easy as replicators hadn't been invented yet) and/or they focused on fewer high quality ships. Something that ramped up in the next century.
Star Trek is based on the Horatio Hornblower age of discovery ideal that one ship will be out at the edge of the unknown and be the sole representative of their nation there. But for a war that depiction must shift so you get to see how big this thing really is. Patrolling Federation space must be a truly titanic task.
If we're gonna look at one thing we should look at this, I think this is the greatest indicator.
The Excelsior class is still in service. The Excelsior is NCC-2000. Assuming that most ships in that era have relatively long service lives, if you want to say that most starships after her stayed in service to the Dominion war era, then we have the Prometheus whose plaque and MSD says NX-74913. That's what? 72913 Starfleet vessels built in a century.
This is also from show runner Ronald B. Moore in 1997.
Size Edit
Regarding the quantity of starships Starfleet had in use in the late 2370s, Moore commented, "I wouldn't be surprised if Starfleet had 30,000 ships or so." (AOL chat, 1997) This was based on reasoning that the USS Hood has a registry of NCC-42296 while the USS Voyager is NCC-74656.
During Operation Return, Starfleet attempted to prevent the Dominion from bringing down the minefield, which would have allowed 2800 ships to come through the wormhole, which would allow for a Dominion total victory. Meaning that since, at that time of the war, the forces of both sides were about equal, the true size of the Dominion forces was much larger than Starfleet.
Doctor Zimmerman claimed that there were 675 EMH Mark I instances active in Starfleet before they were taken off duty during the Dominion War. (VOY: "Life Line")
Here's the link to Mem-Alpha's archive.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Memory_Alpha:AOL_chats/Ronald_D._Moore/ron065.txt
I suppose I understand that. I'm certainly not one of the people doing the tier 5 Connie thing (seems weird to me).
But you have to admit, as it is now, it can't even do what it did in the show.
Man that would be such a dream. Especially to fly into a battle against a bunch of Orion ships, they see the registry and turn around and haul tail. No shots fired. I have no desire to argue against that, but they did do the same thing with the Phaser Lance y'know. Which could be why they would be there, to cover the arc.
But at the edge of the saucer would still be better. That said they're cannons, they only point in one direction anyway the way Star Trek starships use them.
I said that a while ago and I agree completely, nice to see someone else thinking along the same lines. We can do it with the Prometheus. Honestly I'd like to equip the two sections too. The galaxy Saucer has an aft Photon torpedo launcher(page 128 and 130 in TNG Tech manual) , I'd like to slap a Romulan Hyper Plasma in there instead.
I'm hoping that by keeping the Galaxies as more tanky ships, that it means that they're either going to rebalance gameplay to need other roles than just DPS or maybe introduce new content that needs more than just DPS. I kind of feel that if they had just stuck a Lt. Com tac on the X that it would have basically been Cryptic giving up on any sort of movement away from the DPS fest we have now. On the other hand, the X is supposed to be more of a tac dread than anything...so idk, mixed on that one.
I'm really hoping that this is more of a "big picture" change than just being stubborn and snubbing Galaxy/X users. Of course I could just be overly optimistic about it. I hope I'm not though.
Mine Trap Supporter
Cannons, and i would actually make an argument against having those on the ship in the first place (same as i would argue that saucer sep has no place on the GX), would have to be placed into the front of the saucer to maximize the frontal assault.
That aside, it would look even more goofy than these big bolts firing from the antennas.
Heck, i wish the venture saucer would feature a roll bar where the cannons and torpedoes are emplaced.... Miranda style, but more rounded....
you know..... like this baby here:
http://admiral-horton.deviantart.com/art/Yamato-Class-422347163
The Yamato From Klingon Academy, a Federation Battleship that was everything the GX is not.
It tanks like a boss, has ridiculous frontal firepower {this sucka carrys 2(!) starbase-grade-phasers(!!) in a weapon pod between the 2(!!!!) secondary hulls and is fed power by 2(!!!!!!!!!!!!) warpcore's. In addition it carrys the standard loadout of way to many phaser beam emitters (no arrays yet...) and a serious amount of photons in the rollbar bottom and top.}
Well, design aesthetics aside i am back to saying:
Cryptic had the opportunity not only to give us a decent dreadnought, but also add a new skin and model and update the whole package with the newer tech. Mode switching, integrated weapons etc.
They could have easily resold that as a package, and integrated a fleet galaxy X and Fleet Gal R update with the usual console and stat upgrades for the already existing ships.
But they did not.
They slapped a freaking hangar on it. They reused the bloody doomsday weapon gun. They did not refurbish the lance, they failed to at least make the boff seating better.
And they have the nerve to try and sell their LAZY HACK JOB as a fckn achievement!
There was no effort or thought spend on this reboot. Wait i must rectify that: They spend much thought on making this as insulting as possible.
Now how about giving the same workover to the Prometheus Class.. Its never reconnected using your selected parts.
"No matter where you go, there you are."
"I found a bug in Beta, Cryptic squished it. STO Founder and Proud LTS member."
Well even if they change the game content, there is a problem.
Right now, everybody says the the Galaxy-R is a good tank. And that's basically true, mind you. But, it's only true if you build it as a solo tank.
Imho a really effective tank needs Tactical Team, Beam: Fire At Will and Attack Pattern: Delta. That's a tank's bread&butter from my point of view.
Right now the tactical options of the Gal-R are so limited, it can't pull that off. Without Fire At Will, all it can do is pull single aggro. Without AP: D (or AP: O..), other cruisers actually do a better job.
So it's just not enough being hard to kill. You have to have the abilities and options to actually do your job.
Of course you could rely on some other ship's AP: Delta, but the game is lightyears away from that kind of teamwork, it would simply not work for most players (which is a shame, but that's the way it is, extremely casualized), and it would be a crutch anyway. You're better off using a cruiser that's one Ensign engineering short but gets the job done. Like the Odyssey or the Fleet Ambassador.
That's the problem with the Gal-R. I don't want it to have more tactical skills to deal more damage. I would like it to be able to do what it was designed for.
Without a crutch like other people's AP: D or a point defense console to pull group aggro..
not bad? huh. Bo 2 already hits for around at least 12k on an unoptimized build regularly on a dual beam bank.
BO 3 is even better.
Boff power that do this every 30 seconds, no wait, 15 seconds thx 2 aux2bat....
the lance is a failure.
If that was the case then I can appreciate the reasoning to an extent, and also the secrecy. But I can't get past the dreadnaught designation, the tactical focus, but without the tactical seating.
I can understand the standard Assault Cruiser getting the Lt-ens tac seating. It fits perfectly with original design. It's branching. The Assault Cruiser is a cruiser with engineer focused seating. It's tactical because it has two Tac boffs on deck, but not incredibly powerful ones. The Star Cruiser has two science boff seats but not incredibly powerful ones. These are ships that have a primary and a light flavor of a secondary skill set. That's fine, Science ships and escorts have the exact same variation. You can get an engineer flavor patrol escort or a science flavored advanced escort. A tactical flavored Recon Science vessel, or an engineer style Deep Space science vessel.
That's fine and it all makes sense.
I think the Galaxy-R is attempting to stay in the same design philosophy as the long range retrofit, the Voyager-R with its ablative hull armor, which has 3 science boffs. But low level science abilities are more useful in general. And don't have as much overlap. The Defiant-R is the same with three tactical boffs. That's how they've set up the TNG era "hero" ships.
But the Dreadnaught is a different animal. There isn't actually a parallel in the other classes it's a unique ship. That said, it could probably parallel with the Advanced Research Retrofit, the Nebula, which is a science ship with a LtCdr engineer slot, a commander science, an ens science, a Lt tac and a Lt Universal. That's an incredible cruiser science hybrid right there. It's rather sad that the equivalent of that is the layout what the Avenger got. Heck an ens engineer-commander engineer with a Lt Tac and an Lt Universal would've worked out better than the current one. It's not really an update to current standards.
Giving it the Avenger's boff layout wouldn't have made them identical. The Avenger has higher mobility less tankiness in the ship's base stats and there would be a difference between five cannons vs the Phaser lance. Actually just take off the dual cannon ability for the G-X and they're different.
Terrifying thing. I did 30k crit with a BO3 on a Dual Beam Bank three mk XI phaser relays (one purple two blue). I'm not even kidding.
The Lance should consistently outperform a BO3 otherwise what's the point.
Just gonna throw this out there:
Cryptic REFUSES to place the Battleship title on ANY playable ship. The few ships that have claim to that title are either:
1) Not playable (Jem'hadar Battleship, Typhoon-class anyone?) or
2) Have their name changed for the playable versions (Bulwark, D'Deridex (admittedly the NPC ones were changed with the release of LoR though), the MU battleships, Vo'quv etc).
I don't really get it. But hey, it's up to them XD.
The Kumari wing cannons do 30k crits not including the R-Type platforms output. And with slight modifications they could be turned INTO a lance weapon for the dreadnought.
Check out my post here.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]