Cryptic, I am all for cruiser love, but have you gone completely stark-raving mad?
Did you forget that Team powers, be it Engineering, Science or Tactical, are all independent of Auxiliary power?
Let me connect the dots for you:
If you fly an Aux to Battery cruiser, then every 15-seconds, you have access to a 10,000-point hull heal, a 2-4,000 point shield heal, and tactical team, without any penalty whatsoever
If your goal is to make anything with average access to science and engineering powers invulnerable, then you are definitely on the right path.
You lot ain't getting your way this time. Every time we turn around you PvP'ers complain about something and it gets nerfed to hell. It's not only nerfed for PvP, it also ends up being nerfed for PvE.
I never PvP and I'm getting sick and tired of having to find ways to compensate for the nerfs because I'm getting my rear handed to me in PvE content. Now it's the PvP'er's turn to figure out how to cope with the changes. Learn to deal with it, just us PvE'ers have had to do. A small minority group of players shouldn't be allowed to dictate how the game plays for all of us with the majority being ignored.
DEAL WITH IT!
You only really need TT in PvE, so this change is pointless. All of the good and optimal PvE builds don't need anything more than a TT.
So this change does nothing to anything other than fail builds of bad PvEers.
Horrible for who? The PVP:ers? Tough cookies there, bub!
There is absolutely no reason for DIFFERENT Teams to act as thou they are the SAME team. Notice they are called Science, Tactical and Engineering Team. Not "Fix It Team". Or I suppose you believe it makes absolute sense for Lieutenant Redshirt to be part of every team on the ship?
I have no doubt there will be nerfs (eventually) due to the outcry of the PVP minority. To a certain extent, that may be necessary. But having them on a shared cooldown is and always has been utterly ridiculous.
The reason that they share a cooldown is because they use your transporter system to (re)deploy your teams. And those happen to need [shared cooldown] to be ready again.
Considering the amount of healing you can get via ST and ET, I figure that "Team" is a generous name for deploying dozens of engineers with replacement parts and everything across the ship, so it doesn't seem such a stretch.
It is a significant change for PvP. MAybe they should just enable the shared cooldown on PvP maps only...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
There are already several fed cruisers like that. I was hoping for something a bit different for the fleet galX, something like the boff seating of the D'deridex but slanted towards engineering:
CM Eng, LCM Eng, LCM Tac, Ens Sci, Ens Uni
Wasn't the original boff seating announced for the Hirogen Battleship like that before they "corrected" it?
Considering the amount of healing you can get via ST and ET, I figure that "Team" is a generous name for deploying dozens of engineers with replacement parts and everything across the ship, so it doesn't seem such a stretch.
Considering most Cruisers tend to have crews in the THOUSANDS, I don't see how a few dozen crewmembers running around simultaneously would impact performance much.
One notion is to make the "Teams" based off a specific power level. "Weapons" for Tactical Team comes to mind, while "Aux" makes sense for Science Team, and possibly Engineering Team. As a result, Science players become better "healers" in both PVE and PVP content, while most Cruiser and Escort captains would be uneffected, since they don't regularly have high Aux. (other than in Aux to Bat builds)
There are already several fed cruisers like that. I was hoping for something a bit different for the fleet galX, something like the boff seating of the D'deridex but slanted towards engineering:
CM Eng, LCM Eng, LCM Tac, Ens Sci, Ens Uni
HMM, interesting idea.
I was thinking about something similar for a "Galaxy-R(eboot)"
Eng: Com, Ens
Sci: LtC, Ens
Tac: LtC
thus the ship is still mostly about Engineering and more about Science than Tactical.
It would also not collide with the Oddy and Ambassador since those ships still have the advantage of universal BO slot(s). So the "Galaxy-R(eboot)" would be an honestly different ship only for those willing to fly a cruiser without universals.
This could also open up room for new types of ships with similar layouts that have more flexible BO settings (without resorting to universals) but are lackluster in terms of their remaining characteristics.
That you just completely broke PvP and made it possible for a team to rarely, if ever die
That no one at Cryptic has the design sense to realize what a terrible call this is
That I doubt there are enough serious PvPers left to care
That I really don't mind any more, because a huge part of me never wants to be lured back into this constant disappointment of a game, and stuff like this makes that less and less likely.
If you really think that THIS will break PvP, then I honestly want to know what you are smoking.
That claim is as valid as all the 'DOOM! the game is dead!' threads.
What breaks PvP is a lot of things combined. Amongst them is excessive stacking of bonuses, both offensive and defensive. Yes, this is a part of the latter, but as I said it's just one tiny part in a whole bunch of factors.
And in contrast to some of the other things that break PvP, this change actually also has some good effect.
If at all, it just shows how utterly stale the system was with the mandatory perma-TT.
If you really think that THIS will break PvP, then I honestly want to know what you are smoking.
That claim is as valid as all the 'DOOM! the game is dead!' threads.
What breaks PvP is a lot of things combined. Amongst them is excessive stacking of bonuses, both offensive and defensive. Yes, this is a part of the latter, but as I said it's just one tiny part in a whole bunch of factors.
And in contrast to some of the other things that break PvP, this change actually also has some good effect.
Yeah I agree in short what you are saying is that when you get two or more players fighting each other and they all know how to maintain over 100% damage resist in combination of various powers you basically have a stand off at who will be willing to fight the longest. Which therefore encourages these builds meant to lag your enemy so bad that even if they pre-buff before server not responding they can kill you with no contest while the server catches back up.
I'm not worried about pvp in this game though because its a soft core version of games on the internet i've played over the last 3 decades the pvp design and how it works just doesn't even motivate me much to want to get into it. Also the game is just too heavily instanced as it is for it to be fun.
Let's just say that even the prospect of these changes has initiated more constructive (and critical) discussion than in a long time, and has already brought up some interesting suggestions.
So even if the devs don't pull through with it, it already has had some positive impact.
Team abilities not balanced? Why didn't anybody point this out earlier?
Aux2Bat too powerful with these changes? Well maybe it's finally time to think things over and balance this 'mash one button for perfect buff rotation' approach?
If it wasn't mandatory to have two copies of TT running all the time, people could've used different X-Team skills all along.
But noone suggested a change to TT. Probably because it simply wasn't necessary.
Now players are getting access to all X-Team abilities at once, and the sky is falling..
I don't want to keep the old, stale system.
So let's discuss whether we want to tweak/improve the old system with a less mandatory TT, OR embrace the new system with a balanced Aux2Bat? Or something in-between?
Allow me to just chime in here, so we can try and stem the tide of requests for a Commander Tac on the Gal-X.
A ship that has a Comm Array will not have a Commander Tactical station. A Commander Engineering slot is one of the defining factors in determining whether or not a ship has a Comm Array. Furthermore, a Commander Engineering slot is one of the core defining characteristics of a Cruiser, which the Gal-X is, and will remain.
So, I'm afraid you can cross that one off your wish list.
But a Lt. Cmdr tac is not off the list, and I'm glad you haven't said it'll never happen.
Considering most Cruisers tend to have crews in the THOUSANDS, I don't see how a few dozen crewmembers running around simultaneously would impact performance much.
One notion is to make the "Teams" based off a specific power level. "Weapons" for Tactical Team comes to mind, while "Aux" makes sense for Science Team, and possibly Engineering Team. As a result, Science players become better "healers" in both PVE and PVP content, while most Cruiser and Escort captains would be uneffected, since they don't regularly have high Aux. (other than in Aux to Bat builds)
Tying crew numbers to efficiency of team (or all powers)... that's an interesting thought. That would actually help ships like the Galaxys...
Than again a Scimitar has a crew of 3000... never mind.
But a Lt. Cmdr tac is not off the list, and I'm glad you haven't said it'll never happen.
That is what keeps my hope up.
It would be a shame not to bring the Galaxy line in balance with the other TNG era ships, at least for the fleet models. Most iconic cruiser like ships from that era were Galaxy, Vor'cha and D'Deridex. While the later two got a fleet version with a Lt.Com tactical boff station (since Fleet Tor'kaht is basicly a Fleet Vor'cha, since it can even use the Vor'cha and Mirror Vor'cha skins), the Galaxy fleet versions (both R and X) still remain with just a Lt. boff tactical station
I remeber the new Executive Producer said he was a TNG fan, but I am sry to say this, it really doesnt show that in this "Galaxy Class Reboot" update
Allow me to just chime in here, so we can try and stem the tide of requests for a Commander Tac on the Gal-X.
A ship that has a Comm Array will not have a Commander Tactical station. A Commander Engineering slot is one of the defining factors in determining whether or not a ship has a Comm Array. Furthermore, a Commander Engineering slot is one of the core defining characteristics of a Cruiser, which the Gal-X is, and will remain.
So, I'm afraid you can cross that one off your wish list.
thx for at least stating something.
edit: just have look on the bulwark: ltc uni. make it tac on the gal-x, sci on the gal-r and the bulwark stays unique.... some of the oldest ships..... and now u revisit them u even not get that there may should be something done about to bring em on par.
iconic ships, some of the backbones of the whole ip, tons of requests and suggestions....
edit: if ya plz could say anything about the ltc- (or lt-uni) complex i think we all in here really would appreciate! something tells me ur post intentionally only covered half of the topic though i'm really not sure if i will like the other half... thx (also again for hopping into the lions throat).
and sry for raging, it's not personal! i'm just at least as much passionate about the ip and the game as u ;-)...
The Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser has a Commander Universal. The Battlecruiser Comm Array, Sensor Analysis and an Integrated Cloaking Device.
I get the Gal-X not having a Commander Tactical, not sure why there isn't a Lt.Commander Tactical however. For what is supposed to be a Retrofit to bring the vessel into use for warfare that is just not making sense. Especially when you tick up to the aforementioned vessel which comes with all those other features and is not a Dreadnaught.
A Lt. Cmdr TAC on the Galaxy-X is not off the list, so all we can do is hope something happens.
Allow me to just chime in here, so we can try and stem the tide of requests for a Commander Tac on the Gal-X.
A ship that has a Comm Array will not have a Commander Tactical station. A Commander Engineering slot is one of the defining factors in determining whether or not a ship has a Comm Array. Furthermore, a Commander Engineering slot is one of the core defining characteristics of a Cruiser, which the Gal-X is, and will remain.
So, I'm afraid you can cross that one off your wish list.
so what about the Tal Shiar Battle cruiser? it has com array and a com uni station
If you want you can make a mirror gal x with a com uni and put it in the lobi store but for the love of god do it.
Also pls bear in mind that a continuous repetition of the same style like escorts are this way, sci vessels that way already lead to too many ships of the same setup. A bit of mixing it up is sorely needed.
Thank you. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one tired of the PvP community screaming for nerfs to something. As usual, when something is changed they don't like, they start crying about it before it even hits Holodeck.
I hope to hell Cryptic doesn't listen to them for once.
I'm fine with the PvP community calling for nerfs and/or changes to *PvP*. But when Cryptic listens to them and gives them what they want, it affects everybody and all types of content, TRIBBLE over those of us who don't PvP.
It would be nice if Cryptic had the tech to make specific abilities/skills function differently while in PvP and function normally while in PvE. That would be fair to everybody. This way PvP'ers can have their nerfs without the PvE'ers getting shafted by it.
A good example would be Guild Wars 1. While in a map that has a PvP arena, some of the skills will be changed having '(PVP)' added to the name of the skill. These skills will function differently and/or be less affective to keep them from being too powerful. When you go back to a PvE map, the skills switch back over to their normal function.
PvP is the bane of PvE in this game to a ridiculous extent.
Pvpers min-max everything they can , with all the endless money and endless grind time they can throw at a game, and than whine its too easy.
Now they are moaning about the teams, all because a broken technician doff bonus breaks A2B into "I win" button.
Would it not be better to change the Technician's bonus into something ELSE than reducing ability cooldowns?
That would solve this issue, but no, I dont think they would like it.
As for the Pve/Pvp difference, Cryptic did it with the Cryo shotgun,but they are too lazy (and maybe lack the personel) to do it with every ability and item in game.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Are the fleet stats on the galaxy dread finalized or are they still subject to change? Because I'd pay all the monies for a CDR or LCDR tac.
THIS^^^^^^1000 times.
How can they not pay attention to what will make this ship sell. Without a LT CMDR Tac seat why would I want to buy this ship. All other Tac cruisers will out preform it. I have always given Cryptic the benifit of the Doubt and had faith that they had good reasons for some of the things they have done in the past but not giving this ship exactly what is needs is the dumbist thing I have ever seen. Such a waist and loss of revenue oppertunity on their part.
They could have made it the true Fed dreadnought and almost every Feddie would have bought it. 5 Tac consoles, a Cmdr Tac, a Lance that hits targets and has a 1 min cooldown. Better turn, Curiser commands and it would have out sold the Scimatar. They had the oppertunity to make a serious cash cow but completly dropped the ball.
Cryptic, I am all for cruiser love, but have you gone completely stark-raving mad?
Did you forget that Team powers, be it Engineering, Science or Tactical, are all independent of Auxiliary power?
Let me connect the dots for you:
If you fly an Aux to Battery cruiser, then every 15-seconds, you have access to a 10,000-point hull heal, a 2-4,000 point shield heal, and tactical team, without any penalty whatsoever
If your goal is to make anything with average access to science and engineering powers invulnerable, then you are definitely on the right path.
Yes. But A2b is already OP. Nothing new here. But nobody care, and certainly not cryptic.
I'm fine with the PvP community calling for nerfs and/or changes to *PvP*. But when Cryptic listens to them and gives them what they want, it affects everybody and all types of content, TRIBBLE over those of us who don't PvP.
To borrow your own words:
DEAL WITH IT.
Besides, if they were truly listening, PvP wouldn't be such a mess. But since you never PvP, you don't have even the slightest idea.
Science for the win. / Czechoslovak Fleet 1st Division
If they really are planning on working on PvP for the next season like they said in the interviews, then all this complaining about what changes do to PvP are way premature.
There will be a ton of growing pains and adjustments between now and then, and even more after.
If you want things changed, it has to start somewhere.
Adapt or quit. Whining is not only unbecoming, it gets you nowhere.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The shared cooldown between "Team" powers of different careers has been removed.
[*]There is still a shared cooldown between two "Team" powers of the same career, e.g. Science Team I and Science Team III.
So, that means there is no longer a shared cooldown between Tactical team, Engineering team, and Science team? Wow! That's a nice surprise, love it!
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Comments
Did you forget that Team powers, be it Engineering, Science or Tactical, are all independent of Auxiliary power?
Let me connect the dots for you:
If you fly an Aux to Battery cruiser, then every 15-seconds, you have access to a 10,000-point hull heal, a 2-4,000 point shield heal, and tactical team, without any penalty whatsoever
If your goal is to make anything with average access to science and engineering powers invulnerable, then you are definitely on the right path.
Oh snap! Wicked; love it!
You only really need TT in PvE, so this change is pointless. All of the good and optimal PvE builds don't need anything more than a TT.
So this change does nothing to anything other than fail builds of bad PvEers.
The reason that they share a cooldown is because they use your transporter system to (re)deploy your teams. And those happen to need [shared cooldown] to be ready again.
Considering the amount of healing you can get via ST and ET, I figure that "Team" is a generous name for deploying dozens of engineers with replacement parts and everything across the ship, so it doesn't seem such a stretch.
It is a significant change for PvP. MAybe they should just enable the shared cooldown on PvP maps only...
Actually it was a Lt Cmdr Sci not Eng.
Considering most Cruisers tend to have crews in the THOUSANDS, I don't see how a few dozen crewmembers running around simultaneously would impact performance much.
One notion is to make the "Teams" based off a specific power level. "Weapons" for Tactical Team comes to mind, while "Aux" makes sense for Science Team, and possibly Engineering Team. As a result, Science players become better "healers" in both PVE and PVP content, while most Cruiser and Escort captains would be uneffected, since they don't regularly have high Aux. (other than in Aux to Bat builds)
HMM, interesting idea.
I was thinking about something similar for a "Galaxy-R(eboot)"
Eng: Com, Ens
Sci: LtC, Ens
Tac: LtC
thus the ship is still mostly about Engineering and more about Science than Tactical.
It would also not collide with the Oddy and Ambassador since those ships still have the advantage of universal BO slot(s). So the "Galaxy-R(eboot)" would be an honestly different ship only for those willing to fly a cruiser without universals.
This could also open up room for new types of ships with similar layouts that have more flexible BO settings (without resorting to universals) but are lackluster in terms of their remaining characteristics.
time to dusk off all the squishy ships cus now with team abilities they might stand abit of a chance.
cant wait to see what my voth tank will be like its a tough beast even more so now with team abilities
If you really think that THIS will break PvP, then I honestly want to know what you are smoking.
That claim is as valid as all the 'DOOM! the game is dead!' threads.
What breaks PvP is a lot of things combined. Amongst them is excessive stacking of bonuses, both offensive and defensive. Yes, this is a part of the latter, but as I said it's just one tiny part in a whole bunch of factors.
And in contrast to some of the other things that break PvP, this change actually also has some good effect.
If at all, it just shows how utterly stale the system was with the mandatory perma-TT.
Yeah I agree in short what you are saying is that when you get two or more players fighting each other and they all know how to maintain over 100% damage resist in combination of various powers you basically have a stand off at who will be willing to fight the longest. Which therefore encourages these builds meant to lag your enemy so bad that even if they pre-buff before server not responding they can kill you with no contest while the server catches back up.
I'm not worried about pvp in this game though because its a soft core version of games on the internet i've played over the last 3 decades the pvp design and how it works just doesn't even motivate me much to want to get into it. Also the game is just too heavily instanced as it is for it to be fun.
So even if the devs don't pull through with it, it already has had some positive impact.
Team abilities not balanced? Why didn't anybody point this out earlier?
Aux2Bat too powerful with these changes? Well maybe it's finally time to think things over and balance this 'mash one button for perfect buff rotation' approach?
If it wasn't mandatory to have two copies of TT running all the time, people could've used different X-Team skills all along.
But noone suggested a change to TT. Probably because it simply wasn't necessary.
Now players are getting access to all X-Team abilities at once, and the sky is falling..
I don't want to keep the old, stale system.
So let's discuss whether we want to tweak/improve the old system with a less mandatory TT, OR embrace the new system with a balanced Aux2Bat? Or something in-between?
But a Lt. Cmdr tac is not off the list, and I'm glad you haven't said it'll never happen.
Tying crew numbers to efficiency of team (or all powers)... that's an interesting thought. That would actually help ships like the Galaxys...
Than again a Scimitar has a crew of 3000... never mind.
Lt Cmdr Tactical
Commander Engineering
Lt Cmdr Engineering
Lt Science
≡/\≡
That is what keeps my hope up.
It would be a shame not to bring the Galaxy line in balance with the other TNG era ships, at least for the fleet models. Most iconic cruiser like ships from that era were Galaxy, Vor'cha and D'Deridex. While the later two got a fleet version with a Lt.Com tactical boff station (since Fleet Tor'kaht is basicly a Fleet Vor'cha, since it can even use the Vor'cha and Mirror Vor'cha skins), the Galaxy fleet versions (both R and X) still remain with just a Lt. boff tactical station
I remeber the new Executive Producer said he was a TNG fan, but I am sry to say this, it really doesnt show that in this "Galaxy Class Reboot" update
Wait , does this mean that we can access the KDF missing Honor Guard options ?
If not ... then we still have stuff to complain about ... (it's only been broken since Season 7 ...)
thx for at least stating something.
edit: just have look on the bulwark: ltc uni. make it tac on the gal-x, sci on the gal-r and the bulwark stays unique.... some of the oldest ships..... and now u revisit them u even not get that there may should be something done about to bring em on par.
iconic ships, some of the backbones of the whole ip, tons of requests and suggestions....
edit: if ya plz could say anything about the ltc- (or lt-uni) complex i think we all in here really would appreciate! something tells me ur post intentionally only covered half of the topic though i'm really not sure if i will like the other half... thx (also again for hopping into the lions throat).
and sry for raging, it's not personal! i'm just at least as much passionate about the ip and the game as u ;-)...
rage over edit
I guess.
so what about the Tal Shiar Battle cruiser? it has com array and a com uni station
If you want you can make a mirror gal x with a com uni and put it in the lobi store but for the love of god do it.
Also pls bear in mind that a continuous repetition of the same style like escorts are this way, sci vessels that way already lead to too many ships of the same setup. A bit of mixing it up is sorely needed.
I agree.
Valdore console : Pvp happened. Dyson offensive tier 4 ability : Pvp happened. Science abilities : Pvp happened. Go down fighting: Pvp happened.
PvP is the bane of PvE in this game to a ridiculous extent.
Pvpers min-max everything they can , with all the endless money and endless grind time they can throw at a game, and than whine its too easy.
Now they are moaning about the teams, all because a broken technician doff bonus breaks A2B into "I win" button.
Would it not be better to change the Technician's bonus into something ELSE than reducing ability cooldowns?
That would solve this issue, but no, I dont think they would like it.
As for the Pve/Pvp difference, Cryptic did it with the Cryo shotgun,but they are too lazy (and maybe lack the personel) to do it with every ability and item in game.
THIS^^^^^^1000 times.
How can they not pay attention to what will make this ship sell. Without a LT CMDR Tac seat why would I want to buy this ship. All other Tac cruisers will out preform it. I have always given Cryptic the benifit of the Doubt and had faith that they had good reasons for some of the things they have done in the past but not giving this ship exactly what is needs is the dumbist thing I have ever seen. Such a waist and loss of revenue oppertunity on their part.
They could have made it the true Fed dreadnought and almost every Feddie would have bought it. 5 Tac consoles, a Cmdr Tac, a Lance that hits targets and has a 1 min cooldown. Better turn, Curiser commands and it would have out sold the Scimatar. They had the oppertunity to make a serious cash cow but completly dropped the ball.
Balance died a long time ago.
To borrow your own words:
DEAL WITH IT.
Besides, if they were truly listening, PvP wouldn't be such a mess. But since you never PvP, you don't have even the slightest idea.
There will be a ton of growing pains and adjustments between now and then, and even more after.
If you want things changed, it has to start somewhere.
Adapt or quit. Whining is not only unbecoming, it gets you nowhere.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I think I must have misread this. That can't be right, you mean I'm finally going to be able to make use of my uniform slots!? :eek:
So, that means there is no longer a shared cooldown between Tactical team, Engineering team, and Science team? Wow! That's a nice surprise, love it!
Time to teach my BOff some new skills. Big thank you for this!
.... No, seriously, just kidding, they should in fact be kicked in the crotch. :mad: