what about the release of the new ships has anything to do with the anniversary? Aside from the obvious timing? the only thing I've seen from you on this can be accurately summarized as "entitlement"...
The first rule of debate is to not disparage your counterpart. The second you offend or become dismissive of the other person, they cease listening to you and you forfeit any hope of being taken seriously.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
The first rule of debate is to not disparage your counterpart. The second you offend or become dismissive of the other person, they cease listening to you and you forfeit any hope of being taken seriously.
I'm an old gaffer.
i figure people let their fingers type things they wouldn't normally say to people in person.
I don't think Markhawkman was intentionally being rude to me specifically.
More, they were thinking of the many "I deserve X" threads that have existed. And, indeed, will inevitably exist in the future.
My hope is he realises that the positions in this thread are, by and large, not about entitlement in that sense.
Rather they reflect a deep disappointment in Cryptics apparent forgetting of the point of the anniversary event.
Thus they will NEVER roll back a major change like this.
Nobody's suggesting that they would "roll it back".
DEVs: "Uh, oh... they don't like it... let's throw out three months of work."
Yeah, not gonna happen.
The point I was trying to make is...
You're right. At this point, it's too late to change anything now and it's going to launch in this state.
The feedback that they're going to be interested in is what people actually do post-launch.
If they get a bunch of complaints like "tried to do the mini-game but there were too many players trying to complete it and it took me twenty minutes to finish it". Well, maybe they can do something about that.
If the feedback they get is, "I'm morally opposed to doing mini-games to get my Anniversary reward, so I'm not doing it." Well, okay. Not that helpful. They'll see from their internal metrics how many people do the grind and whether it leads to any sales. And that will be the feedback that matters in that case. If a lot of people pass on it (which I doubt) then maybe they'll do it differently next time.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Just a note to the people trying to claim Forums users are a minority and imply that means the feedback given here isn't as important, or suggesting that the people who aren't posting are happy: No, that's not how this works. You can talk about the percentages of how people who have voiced their opinion feel, and that's about it. Suggesting that those who didn't post are therefore happy with things would be like saying anyone who didn't vote in an election must be happy with the incumbent. It's just wrong. You can't count votes that haven't been cast. We can only deal with the votes that have been cast, and in this thread they seem to be mostly negative. Thus, the feedback is mostly negative.
Furthermore, the Cryptic Community team has really dropped the ball on this one. If you say "We're listening to your feedback", you have a responsibility to follow up and address that. You don't just get to say "we're listening" and then walk away. That's bad community management. As far as I can see, they haven't done a single thing to address the feedback in this thread since they claimed they were listening. When you claim you're listening directly in the thread, you are making a contract that you're acknowledging the feedback, and you have a duty to respond to that feedback, if you actually care about your players.
They owe it to us to tell us what came of our feedback, even if we already know they just ignored it.
Nobody's suggesting that they would "roll it back".
DEVs: "Uh, oh... they don't like it... let's throw out three months of work."
Yeah, not gonna happen.
The point I was trying to make is...
You're right. At this point, it's too late to change anything now and it's going to launch in this state.
The feedback that they're going to be interested in is what people actually do post-launch.
If they get a bunch of complaints like "tried to do the mini-game but there were too many players trying to complete it and it took me twenty minutes to finish it". Well, maybe they can do something about that.
If the feedback they get is, "I'm morally opposed to doing mini-games to get my Anniversary reward, so I'm not doing it." Well, okay. Not that helpful. They'll see from their internal metrics how many people do the grind and whether it leads to any sales. And that will be the feedback that matters in that case. If a lot of people pass on it (which I doubt) then maybe they'll do it differently next time.
Here's the thing BG.
When I read your post I get a sense of the disappointment you're feeling.
No metric measures that directly. It may have knock on effects into measurable areas but your actual disappointment......that can't be measured by looking at some useage and sales figures.
And a truly wise developer will use metrics, but will also use forum posts and other written media, because they'll show you problems before they turn up in your metrics.
I get the impression you feel we've made our point.
However, in the absence of any hint from the devs that our concerns have even been heard, yet alone filed away for future reference, it's pretty hard to feel like a point has been made.
We know the devs are here, they reply to threads and posts uncritical of the grind'n'pay readily enough.
But the steadfast ignoring of the justified criticism rankles greatly. Especially as this is supposed to be the Anniversary event.
It's very hard not to characterise Cryptics behaviour here as, frankly, rude.
It did used to mean something different. Atleast to a lot of us it was a way of saying thanks for being with us for a year, this is for you fans. To me they spat in the face of their fans by saying yep we are listening with ZERO intent on actually doing it.
They purposely dont release info till the last min every time so they can go "Oh we dont have time to change anything." Its not the first time they have done something like this, this is just the worst case of throwing it in our faces.
Sad way to handle your customers, and thats what we are FTP or not. Cryptic just thinks of us as "Gamers" not as the consumers, we are just supposed to shut up and swallow the sh*t they give us.
As this is the eve of the event and no further responses to the players' concerns have appeared on this thread, the Anniversary grind is here and will stay.
I for one will go forward as originally stated... play the FE (I was looking forward to this) and then use my saved Lobi (was planning this for the Summer Event grind) to avoid the Anniversagrind. I will not be visiting the C-store for the so-called perks of the same ship at VA/Fleet level and only three of my toons will get this as their alternate ship (no need to consider this a primary for any of my toons.
Now it is up to STO/Cryptic to prove that its intentions were for the good and not for greed. If the mini-event is not the irritating version from previous then the event may win over the naysayers. So long Anniversary and hello Grindiversary. :P
So, I never tried this last year, but will the Team mechanic work with fulfilling Q's daily missions? Can we have tagging groups running around SFA?
If so, this will relieve two things:
It'll make the daily that much faster.
It'll cut down on the number of times you need to do whatever it is you need to do, cutting down on griefing.
So, think it'll work?? Or do we know that it won't?
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
If they get a bunch of complaints like "tried to do the mini-game but there were too many players trying to complete it and it took me twenty minutes to finish it". Well, maybe they can do something about that.
If the feedback they get is, "I'm morally opposed to doing mini-games to get my Anniversary reward, so I'm not doing it." Well, okay. Not that helpful. They'll see from their internal metrics how many people do the grind and whether it leads to any sales. And that will be the feedback that matters in that case. If a lot of people pass on it (which I doubt) then maybe they'll do it differently next time.
While it is true the only metric they are really going to care about is if it brings alot of players into the game buying stuff (hence the simultaneous release of a lockbox and key sale) and I do agree that metrics are a very important thing for the Devs to keep in mind..
I also feel cryptic fails many times to understand 'why' the metrics are the way they are. While the numbers are important it is only because of the 'why' that they matter.
Myself I typically only grind for the fleet quality ships which these are not. As for the 'set bonuses' I never buy the 3 packs either and very rarely do I keep the silly consoles on the ships that I do purchase. To me they are going so overboard with the actual itemization of this particular anniversary ship after all the other recent itemization additions that it has lost it's appeal especially when some of the items are stashed away on lobi store ships (as in the latest 3pc set) or how they are splitting up all the pieces of this one I cannot be bothered especially without having the slightest clue on what those bonuses are nor having any actual use or need for them anymore.
So, I never tried this last year, but will the Team mechanic work with fulfilling Q's daily missions? Can we have tagging groups running around SFA?
If so, this will relieve two things:
It'll make the daily that much faster.
It'll cut down on the number of times you need to do whatever it is you need to do, cutting down on griefing.
So, think it'll work?? Or do we know that it won't?
Can't rule it out, but it hasn't been a feature of the mini Q game heretofore, afaik.
So, I never tried this last year, but will the Team mechanic work with fulfilling Q's daily missions? Can we have tagging groups running around SFA?
If so, this will relieve two things:
It'll make the daily that much faster.
It'll cut down on the number of times you need to do whatever it is you need to do, cutting down on griefing.
So, think it'll work?? Or do we know that it won't?
some missions can't be teamed. Worth testing though. :P
9 console slots, 3/3 weapons unless you want to shut off everything that makes the science ship science-y and turn into a very weak escort that looks nice.
I'm really only going to do it cuz A) I'm bored in game right now since Dyson 5, and never flew a science ship once and like to see how one works without a dilithium investment.
After a long and hard decision, I choose not to do this event based on the following things.
1) Even if this is a science ship with some escort potential, I would rather save up the EC and go for a different lock box ship. Yes in essence that is still grinding but at the same time I am earning marks, EC and items.
2) Since coming back to the game all I see is grinding. Reputation, Fleet Starbase/Dil Mine etc. I have more fun leveling up a character then deleting them right away rather then going through the grind. I can understand they want to lengthen the game but its really sad that it came to this.
3) Although the ships are designed really well, I am a bit disappointed that they do not have the same feel as other ships. If I were to design these, I would rather see a new Fed/Kling/Rom ship that looks regular with parts of it being replaced with Dyson tech, similar to the way Voyager looked when they were using Borg Tech in the Delta Quadrant.
In the end all I will be doing is just the new FE for the suits (not the Lobi versions) and then I will be working on my 8th character.
This is not a flame thread, nor an attempt to incite ire, but a genuine inquiry. Much as I doubt any Dev will bother to read this, let alone dare to respond to it, I feel it's worth at least voicing the question.
Cryptic, are you truly so out of touch with your playerbase that you don't see just how angry your playerbase is over the Anniversary ship debacle? And if you are, what is your response to that anger? There are many here who just want an honest response from you, not your usual bait and switch, smoke and mirrors replies that don't actually address the matter at hand. Your flippancy, while sometimes amusing, often serves to do little more than poke the angry bear, and with so many MMOs jumping on the F2P bandwagon, an angry bear we are indeed, liable to take our money elsewhere. Just communicate with us, please. Don't evade and deflect, ANSWER us. We are angry and we pay your salaries. We don't deserve everything for free, but many of us have sunk a lot of money into this game, and we DO deserve answers.
PWE/Cryptic does read the forums. You know this because they have to have SOME idea of what's going on in here, and they do post every once in awhile.
We forum-goers are the MINORITY. You don't change something just because your minority is majorly upset. You wait until the majority of players have done it, collect feedback, and then change your decisions for next year. They've already committed to this, so I don't think they'll be going back.
And no, I'm not part of the PWE/Cryptic defense team. I can just understand why they'd make these decisions, and I'm slightly peeved at the way things are turning out, but there's no point in making a new thread about this when there's a 50+ page monstrosity lurking around about this very same topic.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
As a part of the playerbase too I would just like to say I'm not angry or need any answers.
I'd like to agree with Captain Revo here.
I'm not angry.
I don't feel entitled to any further answers.
What they have told us is enough, and is a totally understandable business strategy.
That 50 page monstrosity is full of hate, rage, and hostility. I'm hoping a more civil alternative might actually garner a response.
You honesty think that was a civil post?
"I doubt any Dev will bother to read this"
"are you truly so out of touch with your playerbase"
"not your usual bait and switch, smoke and mirrors replies that don't actually address the matter at hand"
"Your flippancy"
"ANSWER us"
"We are angry and we pay your salaries"
"we DO deserve answers"
Regardless of how you meant them in your mind, all those quotes sound like hate, rage and hostility.
Do you honestly think this is something Cryptic wanted? Do you think they enjoy being on the receiving end of anger for a situation that they are as much victims of as we are?
I'm as POed about the grind as anyone else, but I'm not blaming Cryptic for it.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
That 50 page monstrosity is full of hate, rage, and hostility. I'm hoping a more civil alternative might actually garner a response.
It's not like that thread was an unwarranted response to the anniversary changes. There were plenty of well-thought-out posts that made plenty of sense and provided constructive feedback.
I'm in the same boat; I'm not upset by it. Am I a little disappointed that the design decision is to waste even more of my time with fairly shady practices? Yeah, sure.
However, I also understand what they're trying to accomplish, a higher sustained player count. I am a bit concerned about the longterm impact of.. trying to milk the cow more often, but for the time being this is tolerable and will probably feed peoples' ego down the road when they have a ship that is no longer available.
"I doubt any Dev will bother to read this"
"are you truly so out of touch with your playerbase"
"not your usual bait and switch, smoke and mirrors replies that don't actually address the matter at hand"
"Your flippancy"
"ANSWER us"
"We are angry and we pay your salaries"
"we DO deserve answers"
Regardless of how you meant them in your mind, all those quotes sound like hate, rage and hostility.
This is not a flame thread, nor an attempt to incite ire, but a genuine inquiry. Much as I doubt any Dev will bother to read this, let alone dare to respond to it, I feel it's worth at least voicing the question.
Cryptic, are you truly so out of touch with your playerbase that you don't see just how angry your playerbase is over the Anniversary ship debacle? And if you are, what is your response to that anger? There are many here who just want an honest response from you, not your usual bait and switch, smoke and mirrors replies that don't actually address the matter at hand. Your flippancy, while sometimes amusing, often serves to do little more than poke the angry bear, and with so many MMOs jumping on the F2P bandwagon, an angry bear we are indeed, liable to take our money elsewhere. Just communicate with us, please. Don't evade and deflect, ANSWER us. We are angry and we pay your salaries. We don't deserve everything for free, but many of us have sunk a lot of money into this game, and we DO deserve answers.
If this is not a flame thread, not attempting to incite ire, then you have a very poor perception on the definitions
As a part of the playerbase too I would just like to say I'm not angry or need any answers.
Hear, hear. It's amazing how little perspective some of the more vitriolic complainers maintain.
They've given us their answers, it seems that the only people who feel entitled to MOAR ANSWERZZZ are just looking for Cryptic to tell them what they want to hear. Perhaps some kind of sob story about a noble North American developer, who would gladly work for free, held hostage by dastardly beard-twirling Orientals and their profit-seeking ways. :rolleyes:
Wow, OP. For a post that was not a flame post, your post sure sounded and felt like a flame post. The language and tone were so flammable I used your post to start my fireplace.
In the future please do not presume to speak for me. I can make up my own mind about how I think and feel about this game. My opinions are very different from yours. Mostly because my sense of entitlement is not as over developed.
Good luck with all that in the future.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
The first rule of debate is to not disparage your counterpart. The second you offend or become dismissive of the other person, they cease listening to you and you forfeit any hope of being taken seriously.
I'm an old gaffer.
i figure people let their fingers type things they wouldn't normally say to people in person.
I don't think Markhawkman was intentionally being rude to me specifically.
More, they were thinking of the many "I deserve X" threads that have existed. And, indeed, will inevitably exist in the future.
My hope is he realises that the positions in this thread are, by and large, not about entitlement in that sense.
Rather they reflect a deep disappointment in Cryptics apparent forgetting of the point of the anniversary event.
Nobody's suggesting that they would "roll it back".
DEVs: "Uh, oh... they don't like it... let's throw out three months of work."
Yeah, not gonna happen.
The point I was trying to make is...
You're right. At this point, it's too late to change anything now and it's going to launch in this state.
The feedback that they're going to be interested in is what people actually do post-launch.
If they get a bunch of complaints like "tried to do the mini-game but there were too many players trying to complete it and it took me twenty minutes to finish it". Well, maybe they can do something about that.
If the feedback they get is, "I'm morally opposed to doing mini-games to get my Anniversary reward, so I'm not doing it." Well, okay. Not that helpful. They'll see from their internal metrics how many people do the grind and whether it leads to any sales. And that will be the feedback that matters in that case. If a lot of people pass on it (which I doubt) then maybe they'll do it differently next time.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Furthermore, the Cryptic Community team has really dropped the ball on this one. If you say "We're listening to your feedback", you have a responsibility to follow up and address that. You don't just get to say "we're listening" and then walk away. That's bad community management. As far as I can see, they haven't done a single thing to address the feedback in this thread since they claimed they were listening. When you claim you're listening directly in the thread, you are making a contract that you're acknowledging the feedback, and you have a duty to respond to that feedback, if you actually care about your players.
They owe it to us to tell us what came of our feedback, even if we already know they just ignored it.
Here's the thing BG.
When I read your post I get a sense of the disappointment you're feeling.
No metric measures that directly. It may have knock on effects into measurable areas but your actual disappointment......that can't be measured by looking at some useage and sales figures.
And a truly wise developer will use metrics, but will also use forum posts and other written media, because they'll show you problems before they turn up in your metrics.
I get the impression you feel we've made our point.
However, in the absence of any hint from the devs that our concerns have even been heard, yet alone filed away for future reference, it's pretty hard to feel like a point has been made.
We know the devs are here, they reply to threads and posts uncritical of the grind'n'pay readily enough.
But the steadfast ignoring of the justified criticism rankles greatly. Especially as this is supposed to be the Anniversary event.
It's very hard not to characterise Cryptics behaviour here as, frankly, rude.
My character Tsin'xing
I respect your opinion, and i can readily see how it leads to our cordial disagreements.
I think I'm less cynical than you, though you may characterise it differently.
To me the anniversary event is something a tiny bit special.
This grind'n'pay has shaken all the fairy dust right off it and now its no different to any other seasonal event.
you may say it never was..........but I dont think I'm alone in thinking that it used to mean something different.
They purposely dont release info till the last min every time so they can go "Oh we dont have time to change anything." Its not the first time they have done something like this, this is just the worst case of throwing it in our faces.
Sad way to handle your customers, and thats what we are FTP or not. Cryptic just thinks of us as "Gamers" not as the consumers, we are just supposed to shut up and swallow the sh*t they give us.
I for one will go forward as originally stated... play the FE (I was looking forward to this) and then use my saved Lobi (was planning this for the Summer Event grind) to avoid the Anniversagrind. I will not be visiting the C-store for the so-called perks of the same ship at VA/Fleet level and only three of my toons will get this as their alternate ship (no need to consider this a primary for any of my toons.
Now it is up to STO/Cryptic to prove that its intentions were for the good and not for greed. If the mini-event is not the irritating version from previous then the event may win over the naysayers. So long Anniversary and hello Grindiversary. :P
If so, this will relieve two things:
It'll make the daily that much faster.
It'll cut down on the number of times you need to do whatever it is you need to do, cutting down on griefing.
So, think it'll work?? Or do we know that it won't?
While it is true the only metric they are really going to care about is if it brings alot of players into the game buying stuff (hence the simultaneous release of a lockbox and key sale) and I do agree that metrics are a very important thing for the Devs to keep in mind..
I also feel cryptic fails many times to understand 'why' the metrics are the way they are. While the numbers are important it is only because of the 'why' that they matter.
Myself I typically only grind for the fleet quality ships which these are not. As for the 'set bonuses' I never buy the 3 packs either and very rarely do I keep the silly consoles on the ships that I do purchase. To me they are going so overboard with the actual itemization of this particular anniversary ship after all the other recent itemization additions that it has lost it's appeal especially when some of the items are stashed away on lobi store ships (as in the latest 3pc set) or how they are splitting up all the pieces of this one I cannot be bothered especially without having the slightest clue on what those bonuses are nor having any actual use or need for them anymore.
Can't rule it out, but it hasn't been a feature of the mini Q game heretofore, afaik.
My character Tsin'xing
9 console slots, 3/3 weapons unless you want to shut off everything that makes the science ship science-y and turn into a very weak escort that looks nice.
I'm really only going to do it cuz A) I'm bored in game right now since Dyson 5, and
And C) it looks really really cool.
1) Even if this is a science ship with some escort potential, I would rather save up the EC and go for a different lock box ship. Yes in essence that is still grinding but at the same time I am earning marks, EC and items.
2) Since coming back to the game all I see is grinding. Reputation, Fleet Starbase/Dil Mine etc. I have more fun leveling up a character then deleting them right away rather then going through the grind. I can understand they want to lengthen the game but its really sad that it came to this.
3) Although the ships are designed really well, I am a bit disappointed that they do not have the same feel as other ships. If I were to design these, I would rather see a new Fed/Kling/Rom ship that looks regular with parts of it being replaced with Dyson tech, similar to the way Voyager looked when they were using Borg Tech in the Delta Quadrant.
In the end all I will be doing is just the new FE for the suits (not the Lobi versions) and then I will be working on my 8th character.
Cryptic, are you truly so out of touch with your playerbase that you don't see just how angry your playerbase is over the Anniversary ship debacle? And if you are, what is your response to that anger? There are many here who just want an honest response from you, not your usual bait and switch, smoke and mirrors replies that don't actually address the matter at hand. Your flippancy, while sometimes amusing, often serves to do little more than poke the angry bear, and with so many MMOs jumping on the F2P bandwagon, an angry bear we are indeed, liable to take our money elsewhere. Just communicate with us, please. Don't evade and deflect, ANSWER us. We are angry and we pay your salaries. We don't deserve everything for free, but many of us have sunk a lot of money into this game, and we DO deserve answers.
PWE/Cryptic does read the forums. You know this because they have to have SOME idea of what's going on in here, and they do post every once in awhile.
We forum-goers are the MINORITY. You don't change something just because your minority is majorly upset. You wait until the majority of players have done it, collect feedback, and then change your decisions for next year. They've already committed to this, so I don't think they'll be going back.
And no, I'm not part of the PWE/Cryptic defense team. I can just understand why they'd make these decisions, and I'm slightly peeved at the way things are turning out, but there's no point in making a new thread about this when there's a 50+ page monstrosity lurking around about this very same topic.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
I'd like to agree with Captain Revo here.
I'm not angry.
I don't feel entitled to any further answers.
What they have told us is enough, and is a totally understandable business strategy.
You honesty think that was a civil post?
"I doubt any Dev will bother to read this"
"are you truly so out of touch with your playerbase"
"not your usual bait and switch, smoke and mirrors replies that don't actually address the matter at hand"
"Your flippancy"
"ANSWER us"
"We are angry and we pay your salaries"
"we DO deserve answers"
Regardless of how you meant them in your mind, all those quotes sound like hate, rage and hostility.
I'm as POed about the grind as anyone else, but I'm not blaming Cryptic for it.
It's not like that thread was an unwarranted response to the anniversary changes. There were plenty of well-thought-out posts that made plenty of sense and provided constructive feedback.
However, I also understand what they're trying to accomplish, a higher sustained player count. I am a bit concerned about the longterm impact of.. trying to milk the cow more often, but for the time being this is tolerable and will probably feed peoples' ego down the road when they have a ship that is no longer available.
OHHHh let's come up with a department name lol
Agreed
If this is not a flame thread, not attempting to incite ire, then you have a very poor perception on the definitions
Hear, hear. It's amazing how little perspective some of the more vitriolic complainers maintain.
They've given us their answers, it seems that the only people who feel entitled to MOAR ANSWERZZZ are just looking for Cryptic to tell them what they want to hear. Perhaps some kind of sob story about a noble North American developer, who would gladly work for free, held hostage by dastardly beard-twirling Orientals and their profit-seeking ways. :rolleyes:
In the future please do not presume to speak for me. I can make up my own mind about how I think and feel about this game. My opinions are very different from yours. Mostly because my sense of entitlement is not as over developed.
Good luck with all that in the future.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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