It will only look for malicious software, so things like calc.exe and excel.exe will not put up any red flags. The same can be said for keyboard/mouse drivers, etc. As for what it monitors and looks for, it's all in the EULA, part 12.1. Essentially, screenshots of gameplay, user ID/password if said player has been flagged running file processes to enable hacking/cheating, etc. Most of it's pretty straight forward and what you'd expect from any online gaming service. Think of it as a built in Game-Guard, except not Game-Guard. If you've played any online game in the past with a anti-cheat software, it functions basically the same way. (Note: I just used Game-Guard as an example)
Hope that helps.
Yeah, you are spying on people similar to the NSA. rofl...
I already have 'Norton AntiVirus' and 'Zone Alarm' keeping me safe from malicious software.
You do not trust gamers, and many of us do not trust you.
FUD aside, right now the only thing that bugs me about Arc is that it doesn't detect my STO install, due to having installed it "from another platform," which is nonsense because those "other platforms" have been, up until now, the only way to get STO in the first place.
It will only look for malicious software, so things like calc.exe and excel.exe will not put up any red flags. The same can be said for keyboard/mouse drivers, etc. As for what it monitors and looks for, it's all in the EULA, part 12.1. Essentially, screenshots of gameplay, user ID/password if said player has been flagged running file processes to enable hacking/cheating, etc. Most of it's pretty straight forward and what you'd expect from any online gaming service. Think of it as a built in Game-Guard, except not Game-Guard. If you've played any online game in the past with a anti-cheat software, it functions basically the same way. (Note: I just used Game-Guard as an example)
Hope that helps.
Ok but do you record my process list and store it on your servers?
Mac users have no chance of claiming the free stuff you promote lately (Ferengi shuttle, etc.) because there is NO arc for Mac. You said in a post, you'd work on that, but still nothing!
If you implement a Mac version, consider the consequences.
It will only look for malicious software, so things like calc.exe and excel.exe will not put up any red flags. The same can be said for keyboard/mouse drivers, etc. As for what it monitors and looks for, it's all in the EULA, part 12.1. Essentially, screenshots of gameplay, user ID/password if said player has been flagged running file processes to enable hacking/cheating, etc. Most of it's pretty straight forward and what you'd expect from any online gaming service. Think of it as a built in Game-Guard, except not Game-Guard. If you've played any online game in the past with a anti-cheat software, it functions basically the same way. (Note: I just used Game-Guard as an example)
Hope that helps.
I assume PWE were trying to copy Steam again with it's VAC (Valve-Anti-Cheat) system.
The difference here is that Steam monitors cheating on it's own servers. It does not monitor client side afaik...
What you do on your servers is one thing, what you do on my system in an entirely different matter, so this probably needs an opt in/out to be legal in the EU.
As already mentioned, the fact that Arc has no toggle to change data sharing after install, already puts it on the 'could get it banned' list here in the EU.
I already know it interferes with itunes and my mouse/keyboard software, stopping it from working properly....
You made the excellent point that, while there is a button to opt in or out during installation, it is unaccessible after that.
While I'm no expert, I seem to remember the law requiring the ability to opt in or out on a continuing basis.
Thus, ARC as it stands right now, may be in breach of the law in some juridstictions.
Sorry for misunderstanding your post. My brain farts sometimes.
And sparkiesoft has already said they will work on implementing the opt in/out of data sharing option into Arc. I don't know any of that legal mumbo jumbo. I'm not one to make threats about laws being violated even if I did know, because it sounds like that is where the conversation about this law is going in this thread.
Sorry for misunderstanding your post. My brain farts sometimes.
And sparkiesoft has already said they will work on implementing the opt in/out of data sharing option into Arc. I don't know any of that legal mumbo jumbo. I'm not one to make threats about laws being violated even if I did know, because it sounds like that is where the conversation about this law is going in this thread.
Putting in a toggle is one thing. If it actually works is another.
<
> <
> <
>
Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
So far they are giving free costumes, shuttle and a lobi bonus as an incentive to use Arc. As rewards go, they aren't very spectacular, but I like that they are thinking of using a rewards system as incentive to use the program which has something of P.R problem attached to it.
If they can manage to implement a functioning opt out system for data sharing, and improve the excessive memory usage I might consider using it, that is if they drop Steam support. But that would seem to be a very anti-competitive move on their behalf.
Time is a funny thing; There is always too much of it. Except when you need it the most, then there is never enough.
Well, I wanted the khan uniform, so I downloaded it. It actually registered that I had sto installed, so I'll give you that, and it didn't seem to slow my game down much, but ultimately I'm just not seeing the point of it. Why would I bother opening up Arc, just to open the launcher I was going straight to beforehand? Other than the bribes which have nothing to do with arc itself, I'm not seeing any actual incentive to use it, outside of you guys making it mandatory.
It may only look for malicious software, but it has to read and go through everything else to find it, if any, so don't tell us that it doesn't.
It has no idea where the software is located on every single hard drive it encounters, again if any, does it now? So it HAS to probe and read through every bit of data. Every file, folder, sector. Explains the scanning for and the reading of every other hard drive on someones system.
And if its doing all that, it's got to be sending what it see's back to PWE HQ so it can be identified and sorted. It wouldn't be much use if it didn't send back anything, now would it?
Thank you, sparkiesoft, you helped make up my mind and make the final choice. No ARC for me.
Lets face it. PWE is after our TRIBBLE collections. :P
<
> <
> <
>
Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
It may only look for malicious software, but it has to read and go through everything else to find it, if any, so don't tell us that it doesn't.
It has no idea where the software is located on every single hard drive it encounters, again if any, does it now? So it HAS to probe and read through every bit of data. Every file, folder, sector. Explains the scanning for and the reading of every other hard drive on someones system.
And if its doing all that, it's got to be sending what it see's back to PWE HQ so it can be identified and sorted. It wouldn't be much use if it didn't send back anything, now would it?
Thank you, sparkiesoft, you helped make up my mind and make the final choice. No ARC for me.
This.^^ This +10.
Not to sound like a tinfoil-hat nut, but...if you guys make this mandatory, I'm ragequitting. And no, you cannot have my stuff.
TBH, I'm OK with ARC provided that it is NOT mandatory. If it becomes mandatory? I'm done with STO.
Sorry for misunderstanding your post. My brain farts sometimes.
And sparkiesoft has already said they will work on implementing the opt in/out of data sharing option into Arc. I don't know any of that legal mumbo jumbo. I'm not one to make threats about laws being violated even if I did know, because it sounds like that is where the conversation about this law is going in this thread.
Not making any threats, just don't want my favourite game company to get exposed to legal action needlessly.......speaking of which....
We may have a problem.
The following link leads to a PDF of the EU regulations on personal data.
"The data subject shall have the right to withdraw his or her consent at any time. The
withdrawal of consent shall not affect the lawfulness of processing based on consent
before its withdrawal."
Thus, it seems that ARC, without its ability to withdraw consent enabled, may be already in breach of EU data protection laws.
"The data subject shall have the right to withdraw his or her consent at any time. The
withdrawal of consent shall not affect the lawfulness of processing based on consent
before its withdrawal."
Thus, it seems that ARC, without its ability to withdraw consent enabled, may be already in breach of EU data protection laws.
I've never once seen any anti-malware/anti-virus software get prosecuted. The software scans your PC, sends the data back to their database, then the devs sells the info so that the software can be free.
I've never once seen any anti-malware/anti-virus software get prosecuted. The software scans your PC, sends the data back to their database, then the devs sells the info so that the software can be free.
Thing is, ARC collects data on a personal basis.
The EU regulation seems pretty clear.
Its fine to collect such data, provided there is a clear opt in and the ability to opt out is available and free at all times.
Problem is, the opt in or out on a continuing basis functionality isnt working.
All i am suggesting is that Cryptic run this past a lawyer, because on a cursory reading they are in breach right now.
ARC collects data from my machine and, in order for it to catch cheats, it must personalise that data so that any cheating individual can be sanctioned.
ARC does not collect metadata, where the individual is not identifiable (theoretically).
Thus, the data that ARc is collecting from your or my machine is processed as individual packets.
Your data goes into a different folder to mine.
ARC collects data that is personalised, not generalised.
ARC collects data from my machine and, in order for it to catch cheats, it must personalise that data so that any cheating individual can be sanctioned.
ARC does not collect metadata, where the individual is not identifiable (theoretically).
Thus, the data that ARc is collecting from your or my machine is processed as individual packets.
Your data goes into a different folder to mine.
ARC collects data that is personalised, not generalised.
Does that make it clear......
Most of what you said are assumptions.
Not only that, but you got something wrong as well. All the data you send to anti-virus companies are individual packets, too.
But aside from anti-virus scanners, theres also Steam's anti-hack system. I've never seen them sued for snooping through your PC. Of course, with enough traction im sure someone could sue them for that. People can sue for anything these days. (They were sued in Germany because a bunch of people didn't like that they couldn't resell digital games.)
Not only that, but you got something wrong as well. All the data you send to anti-virus companies are individual packets, too.
But aside from anti-virus scanners, theres also Steam's anti-hack system. I've never seen them sued for snooping through your PC. Of course, with enough traction im sure someone could sue them for that. People can sue for anything these days. (They were sued in Germany because a bunch of people didn't like that they couldn't resell digital games.)
Well, a pretty safe assumption as its totally inline with what Sparkiesoft has been telling us and, ironically, you then go on to confirm it as standard industry practise.
However, you have utterly missed the point.
Its not whether or not this data is collected or not.
Its the fact that, after installation, you cant then go back and change your opt in or out options afterwards, at least in ARCs current format.
Its all about one button, nothing else.
If ARC allowed us to change our opt in or out options at will, as EU regulations actually require, then there is no issue.
However, while that opt in or out button is unavailable, then Cryptic may be exposed to litigation.
The EULA also specifies that it uses the laws of the United States and of the State of California, and that any disagreements will be adjudicated in the county of California that Cryptic's HQ is located in.
That's what you agreed to when you signed it. EU law doesn't seem to apply in this instance.
Why so paranoid? Were you planning on becoming a gold farmer?
The EULA also specifies that it uses the laws of the United States and of the State of California, and that any disagreements will be adjudicated in the county of California that Cryptic's HQ is located in.
That's what you agreed to when you signed it. EU law doesn't seem to apply in this instance.
Why so paranoid? Were you planning on becoming a gold farmer?
No, these people want reasons to validate their hatred towards Arc. They're running out of reasons, though.
No, these people want reasons to validate their hatred towards Arc. They're running out of reasons, though.
Strawman much?
As it happens, I already have ARC installed.
Not sure how that squares with your assertion of my wanting to validate some theoretical hatred of ARC.
If you'd bothered to actually read my posts on this matter, as opposed to the apparent knee jerk reaction you've indulged in, you'd see that my advice on this matter was for Cryptic to seek some legal advice on the matter.
I appreciate jonsills point about the EULA.
However, in matters of data protection and following recent world events, juridstiction is less cut and dry than it used to be.
By suggesting seeking legal advice, I'd hope for a piece of clarity on the matter, that is all.
My motivation in this matter is for Cryptic not to be exposed to any legal action.
Having cryptic dragged before the courts is in no way to be considered a win.
I've never once seen any anti-malware/anti-virus software get prosecuted. The software scans your PC, sends the data back to their database, then the devs sells the info so that the software can be free.
Because the info is not personal it is about any nasties you might have or software it has not seen yet but guessed at being a nasty and asks you to submit it for review which you have the option to do so or not. If they have the option for passing on your registration details to "selected companies" as some put it you must have the option to say no to that.
Now my main thing on ARC is that I have no need for it or more precisely its' gimmicks. Where their other games are concerned they are not my type of thing, nor do they suit my tastes visually judging by the screen shots. I looked into them all when I first set up my PWE account when I started playing. Maybe a stripped down version for those of us not interested in the gimmicks could be an option, even with the restriction that if you take this version you will not be eligible to take advantage of any ARC offers that come up.
On the matter of scanning to make sure you are not using anything to cheat, then that is nothing new online games Blizzard have been doing it for years with Warden which means this side of things would not bother me. Though obviously some still get through because like AV software Warden is updated retroactively. Now given this I can see ARC not being in breach of EU law in this area.
jonsills, Microsoft and Google have been hit hard by the EU courts over breaches of EU law, and they are not based in the EU. If something offered in the EU breaches EU law to the point it can be taken to court, there is lee way ofcourse, then they can be. Given the hit MS and Google have taken, then PWE could be given two options adapt ARC so it doesn't break EU law or lose all EU customers as it can be banned and blocked. Whether or not ARC would be in this situation would take someone with more knowledge of EU law and how ARC operates to make a statement of fact on this, until then we are operating on a hypothetical when we say one way or the other on this matter.
Also and EULA can itself be in breach of the law. In the UK, not sure about the rest of the EU, we have legislation against unfair terms and conditions in contracts. Which if the EULA was decided to be than it would become invalid, and so would the restrictions which could then open PWE/Cryptic to the UK courts. I am not saying that the one for this game is. As with ARC this would need someone with more knowledge of this law and the EULA to make a case on I am just saying that an EULA is not a "get out of jail free" card as some people seem to think.
Other than on first install, what are the options for "do not track" for my Personally Identifiable Information?
I have no need for Arc in any other capacity as a launcher (when that time comes), what parts of it I can kill/quarantine/block without compromising it's main function of launching STO?
You do not need ARC to launch STO, assuming you installed STO directly from cryptics website. ARC is not about launching, its about connecting. It creates an option where you can have greater access to community members and features like the forums while in game or even not in game. You don't have to run an internet browser anymore, just arc. And the best part! You get free items for installing arc! OMG! NO! The world is coming to an end! Get over yourselves folks, show some appreciation for a change.
Comments
I already have 'Norton AntiVirus' and 'Zone Alarm' keeping me safe from malicious software.
You do not trust gamers, and many of us do not trust you.
How does one delete their STO/PWE account?
Ok but do you record my process list and store it on your servers?
Can I have your stuff?
Mac users have no chance of claiming the free stuff you promote lately (Ferengi shuttle, etc.) because there is NO arc for Mac. You said in a post, you'd work on that, but still nothing!
If you implement a Mac version, consider the consequences.
thanks.
I assume PWE were trying to copy Steam again with it's VAC (Valve-Anti-Cheat) system.
The difference here is that Steam monitors cheating on it's own servers. It does not monitor client side afaik...
What you do on your servers is one thing, what you do on my system in an entirely different matter, so this probably needs an opt in/out to be legal in the EU.
As already mentioned, the fact that Arc has no toggle to change data sharing after install, already puts it on the 'could get it banned' list here in the EU.
I already know it interferes with itunes and my mouse/keyboard software, stopping it from working properly....
Sorry for misunderstanding your post. My brain farts sometimes.
And sparkiesoft has already said they will work on implementing the opt in/out of data sharing option into Arc. I don't know any of that legal mumbo jumbo. I'm not one to make threats about laws being violated even if I did know, because it sounds like that is where the conversation about this law is going in this thread.
Putting in a toggle is one thing. If it actually works is another.
> <
> <
>
If they can manage to implement a functioning opt out system for data sharing, and improve the excessive memory usage I might consider using it, that is if they drop Steam support. But that would seem to be a very anti-competitive move on their behalf.
Lets face it. PWE is after our TRIBBLE collections. :P
> <
> <
>
This.^^ This +10.
Not to sound like a tinfoil-hat nut, but...if you guys make this mandatory, I'm ragequitting. And no, you cannot have my stuff.
TBH, I'm OK with ARC provided that it is NOT mandatory. If it becomes mandatory? I'm done with STO.
Not making any threats, just don't want my favourite game company to get exposed to legal action needlessly.......speaking of which....
We may have a problem.
The following link leads to a PDF of the EU regulations on personal data.
[http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2012:0011:FIN:EN:PDF Article 7]
From Article 7, section 3.
"The data subject shall have the right to withdraw his or her consent at any time. The
withdrawal of consent shall not affect the lawfulness of processing based on consent
before its withdrawal."
Thus, it seems that ARC, without its ability to withdraw consent enabled, may be already in breach of EU data protection laws.
I've never once seen any anti-malware/anti-virus software get prosecuted. The software scans your PC, sends the data back to their database, then the devs sells the info so that the software can be free.
Thing is, ARC collects data on a personal basis.
The EU regulation seems pretty clear.
Its fine to collect such data, provided there is a clear opt in and the ability to opt out is available and free at all times.
Problem is, the opt in or out on a continuing basis functionality isnt working.
All i am suggesting is that Cryptic run this past a lawyer, because on a cursory reading they are in breach right now.
You're gonna need to define "personal basis".
ooookkkaaaaayyyyy.
ARC collects data from my machine and, in order for it to catch cheats, it must personalise that data so that any cheating individual can be sanctioned.
ARC does not collect metadata, where the individual is not identifiable (theoretically).
Thus, the data that ARc is collecting from your or my machine is processed as individual packets.
Your data goes into a different folder to mine.
ARC collects data that is personalised, not generalised.
Does that make it clear......
Most of what you said are assumptions.
Not only that, but you got something wrong as well. All the data you send to anti-virus companies are individual packets, too.
But aside from anti-virus scanners, theres also Steam's anti-hack system. I've never seen them sued for snooping through your PC. Of course, with enough traction im sure someone could sue them for that. People can sue for anything these days. (They were sued in Germany because a bunch of people didn't like that they couldn't resell digital games.)
Well, a pretty safe assumption as its totally inline with what Sparkiesoft has been telling us and, ironically, you then go on to confirm it as standard industry practise.
However, you have utterly missed the point.
Its not whether or not this data is collected or not.
Its the fact that, after installation, you cant then go back and change your opt in or out options afterwards, at least in ARCs current format.
Its all about one button, nothing else.
If ARC allowed us to change our opt in or out options at will, as EU regulations actually require, then there is no issue.
However, while that opt in or out button is unavailable, then Cryptic may be exposed to litigation.
Please do try to follow the actual point.
Or do I need to define point for you........
That's what you agreed to when you signed it. EU law doesn't seem to apply in this instance.
Why so paranoid? Were you planning on becoming a gold farmer?
No, these people want reasons to validate their hatred towards Arc. They're running out of reasons, though.
Strawman much?
As it happens, I already have ARC installed.
Not sure how that squares with your assertion of my wanting to validate some theoretical hatred of ARC.
If you'd bothered to actually read my posts on this matter, as opposed to the apparent knee jerk reaction you've indulged in, you'd see that my advice on this matter was for Cryptic to seek some legal advice on the matter.
I appreciate jonsills point about the EULA.
However, in matters of data protection and following recent world events, juridstiction is less cut and dry than it used to be.
By suggesting seeking legal advice, I'd hope for a piece of clarity on the matter, that is all.
My motivation in this matter is for Cryptic not to be exposed to any legal action.
Having cryptic dragged before the courts is in no way to be considered a win.
Because the info is not personal it is about any nasties you might have or software it has not seen yet but guessed at being a nasty and asks you to submit it for review which you have the option to do so or not. If they have the option for passing on your registration details to "selected companies" as some put it you must have the option to say no to that.
Now my main thing on ARC is that I have no need for it or more precisely its' gimmicks. Where their other games are concerned they are not my type of thing, nor do they suit my tastes visually judging by the screen shots. I looked into them all when I first set up my PWE account when I started playing. Maybe a stripped down version for those of us not interested in the gimmicks could be an option, even with the restriction that if you take this version you will not be eligible to take advantage of any ARC offers that come up.
On the matter of scanning to make sure you are not using anything to cheat, then that is nothing new online games Blizzard have been doing it for years with Warden which means this side of things would not bother me. Though obviously some still get through because like AV software Warden is updated retroactively. Now given this I can see ARC not being in breach of EU law in this area.
jonsills, Microsoft and Google have been hit hard by the EU courts over breaches of EU law, and they are not based in the EU. If something offered in the EU breaches EU law to the point it can be taken to court, there is lee way ofcourse, then they can be. Given the hit MS and Google have taken, then PWE could be given two options adapt ARC so it doesn't break EU law or lose all EU customers as it can be banned and blocked. Whether or not ARC would be in this situation would take someone with more knowledge of EU law and how ARC operates to make a statement of fact on this, until then we are operating on a hypothetical when we say one way or the other on this matter.
Also and EULA can itself be in breach of the law. In the UK, not sure about the rest of the EU, we have legislation against unfair terms and conditions in contracts. Which if the EULA was decided to be than it would become invalid, and so would the restrictions which could then open PWE/Cryptic to the UK courts. I am not saying that the one for this game is. As with ARC this would need someone with more knowledge of this law and the EULA to make a case on I am just saying that an EULA is not a "get out of jail free" card as some people seem to think.
I have no need for Arc in any other capacity as a launcher (when that time comes), what parts of it I can kill/quarantine/block without compromising it's main function of launching STO?
Thank you cryptic!
Steam should be sufficient, and if not, you can still play the game without any of these stupid clients.