They know that they're gonna lose a lot of paying customers
I used to play PWI (and vowed never to return to it again well before PWE bought Cryptic), I have a LTS for Champions Online as well as Star Trek Online and bought the Hero of the North pack for Neverwinter as well as the Legacy Pack for STO. I also generally get at least $200 in Zen a month.
Until this is no longer intended to be mandatory for playing any of my current Cryptic games (I don't care if they make it mandatory for future ones, I just won't play them) I do not intend to spend one more cent on any Cryptic or PWE games.
If it does ACTUALLY become mandatory, I will uninstall everything PWE and Cryptic related and they will NEVER get me back as a customer (regardless of whatever promises they make).
If they have no intention of listening to the outcry of their customer base who say they neither need or even want something like this, and intend to force it upon them anyway, then they deserve to join the ranks of other defunct gaming companies, and DO NOT deserve a "second chance" when they discover they have driven away all their customers.
PWE/Cryptic, you wanted FEEDBACK... How is that for Feedback?
Devs, thank you very much for your hard work.
However, I am not interested in running arc to play STO unless it is my choice, and I realize this is probably out of your hands.
Please give a link to people above you that i can express this feedback about arc. Or if someone reading this can find a link.
I have noticed talks on facebook about ARC. What is it? What I gather it is a launcher. Well I launch from the trek icon on desktop. When or will that change? Is that all it is?
I have noticed talks on facebook about ARC. What is it? What I gather it is a launcher. Well I launch from the trek icon on desktop. When or will that change? Is that all it is?
If you were a Steam user you would be uneffected regarding ARC. However if you had to at some point have to uninstall STO from your system, in order to redownload you will initially have to install ARC. ARC has been described by many as the poor man's Steam, alot of players really do dislike it, many see it as spyware, however there has been noting concreate proved that this is the case.
I personally have been using ARC when it was first released 31st May last year, and it has just recently gone through a major transformation. You can download STO without using ARC (there is a thread somewhere explaining how to do that).
I think ARC is really a matter of personal choice. I like it, but I am in a very very small minority of those who do, but like I said the vast majority dislike it alot.
I use it now and i like it. at the moment is largely optional, but will become mandatory later on and replace the launcher we have.
it is just a way they can advertise their other games, launch the other games if you wish to download them, incorporate their news and blogs into it and give people a way to access forums, or buy zen without needing to use a browser. its basically an all in one launcher.
a lot of people do seem to hate it. personally i think they are overreacting as its a pretty minor problem in the grand scheme of life as to how a game launches but whatever. make up your own mind.
I believe it also runs in the background to police cheating/hacking and will eventually replace the game's launcher, acting as the patcher/launcher for STO, right?
I believe it also runs in the background to police cheating/hacking and will eventually replace the game's launcher, acting as the patcher/launcher for STO, right?
Besides the policing part you are correct.
Though it is a bit of extra Spyware (as if we need more) and bloatware as it hogs a bit of extra internet bandwidth and system resources while it runs int the background.
Though it is a bit of extra Spyware (as if we need more) and bloatware as it hogs a bit of extra internet bandwidth and system resources while it runs int the background.
For those reasons I abhor it.
spyware
noun [ mass noun ]
software that enables a user to obtain covert information about another's computer activities by transmitting data covertly from their hard drive.
I'm intrigued in what way Arc is 'Spyware' - I mean this from a genuine enquiry, I'm a Mac player so I'm running the old style launcher as Arc isn't Mac compatible.
During the early announcement / first Beta, it was noted that, in many ways, ARC will be a "PWE variant" of Steam, much like Origin is an "EA-Steam".
As has happened to EA (complete pull of EA product from Steam), many are afraid that Valve will cite PWE's ARC as a TOS violation and remove all PWE's products (Cryptic's lineup) from Steam...
Yet, PWE insists that at least STO, if not the entire Cryptic lineup, will remain available via Steam.
Seemingly, this is an incongruity. Claims that a second company will do what the first company desires just because the first company desires it is a fallacy. The second company will do what they want according to their rules, meaning first company's claims that the second company will cooperate is a blatant lie.
However, it has been noted that a "theoretical" ARC-lite, that includes the patcher/launcher abilities but does not include a single shred of "Steam-like" functionality, would seemingly meet the requirements of Steam's TOS that prevent "Steam-clones" from running within Steam. Obviously, to meet this requirement, said launcher would most likely have to be the traditional "activate, patch, launch, deactivate" style that the current launcher is. Coincidentally, a seeming majority of complainers indicate that they have no beef with an "ARC-lite" replacing the current Cryptic launcher, as long as it meets the "activate, patch, launch, deactivate" mandate...
Again, PWE insists that this cannot be allowed to pass. It has to be the full ARC experience or nothing it seems.
Second incongruity. Or second lie.
With this potentially in the back of many people's heads (as discussion of it seems to have dropped by the wayside after PWE's initial and repeated claims about continued Steam availability) there exists a "violation of trust" that is necessary to make an orderly transition possible. As such, all other PWE claims (no backdoor torrent functionality, opt-out of "data mining" actually working, etc.) are immediately questioned and can only be placated by the software doing absolutely nothing that can even be construed as such. Therefore, things like scanning for a non-ARC installation of a PWE game, or the existence of a process that might eventually use a shred of bandwidth, are immediately questioned and despite PWE's claims, believed to be the worse of the two options (as it has been postulated that at least one of PWE's stances will be invalidated by full launch).
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
During the early announcement / first Beta, it was noted that, in many ways, ARC will be a "PWE variant" of Steam, much like Origin is an "EA-Steam".
As has happened to EA (complete pull of EA product from Steam), many are afraid that Valve will cite PWE's ARC as a TOS violation and remove all PWE's products (Cryptic's lineup) from Steam...
Yet, PWE insists that at least STO, if not the entire Cryptic lineup, will remain available via Steam.
Seemingly, this is an incongruity. Claims that a second company will do what the first company desires just because the first company desires it is a fallacy. The second company will do what they want according to their rules, meaning first company's claims that the second company will cooperate is a blatant lie.
However, it has been noted that a "theoretical" ARC-lite, that includes the patcher/launcher abilities but does not include a single shred of "Steam-like" functionality, would seemingly meet the requirements of Steam's TOS that prevent "Steam-clones" from running within Steam. Obviously, to meet this requirement, said launcher would most likely have to be the traditional "activate, patch, launch, deactivate" style that the current launcher is. Coincidentally, a seeming majority of complainers indicate that they have no beef with an "ARC-lite" replacing the current Cryptic launcher, as long as it meets the "activate, patch, launch, deactivate" mandate...
Again, PWE insists that this cannot be allowed to pass. It has to be the full ARC experience or nothing it seems.
Second incongruity. Or second lie.
With this potentially in the back of many people's heads (as discussion of it seems to have dropped by the wayside after PWE's initial and repeated claims about continued Steam availability) there exists a "violation of trust" that is necessary to make an orderly transition possible. As such, all other PWE claims (no backdoor torrent functionality, opt-out of "data mining" actually working, etc.) are immediately questioned and can only be placated by the software doing absolutely nothing that can even be construed as such. Therefore, things like scanning for a non-ARC installation of a PWE game, or the existence of a process that might eventually use a shred of bandwidth, are immediately questioned and despite PWE's claims, believed to be the worse of the two options (as it has been postulated that at least one of PWE's stances will be invalidated by full launch).
Simply going to point out that there are still tons of EA titles still available through Steam.
ARC is supposed to be a straight steam rip-off which comes with ads for PWEs other crappy games that they will throw in your face. Additionally, it'll run in the background, hogs system resources and scans your harddrive for "other PWE titles".
The selling point is, once again, "everything is going to be better now". Though I doubt Steam will allow them to distribute their shabby rip-off via Steams architecture and as a resut will most likely terminate it's contract with PWE, effectively removing STO from the Steam library.
Once that happens I look back at all the moments I actually enjjoyed STO, hit uninstall and play something else.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
spyware? No. Adware? Yes. But so is steam... steam runs in the background eating bandwidth and cpu in order to advertise to me games that I do not want. It also has pop-ups (to hang out with your steam buddies, this popup appears every time you start the game!).
Both are going to do exactly the same thing (soak CPU and bandwidth in the background in order to advertise TRIBBLE at you) and neither one serves any useful purpose other than the initial download of the game files (the game itself should self patch, without a third party).
In a sense they are spyware in the way that google is spyware --- pretty sure steam tracks what you download for their database --- but they do not seem to run through your PC reading all your files etc. Arc would not have to do this, as they already know which cryptic games you play on your account.
spyware? No. Adware? Yes. But so is steam... steam runs in the background eating bandwidth and cpu in order to advertise to me games that I do not want. It also has pop-ups (to hang out with your steam buddies, this popup appears every time you start the game!).
Both are going to do exactly the same thing (soak CPU and bandwidth in the background in order to advertise TRIBBLE at you) and neither one serves any useful purpose other than the initial download of the game files (the game itself should self patch, without a third party).
In a sense they are spyware in the way that google is spyware --- pretty sure steam tracks what you download for their database --- but they do not seem to run through your PC reading all your files etc. Arc would not have to do this, as they already know which cryptic games you play on your account.
In Steam's defense it's much less aggressive at advertising (only a pop-up window after a game is closed/when it starts up once in a while), is a lot more efficient in the background, and doesn't install itself as add-ons on all your browsers.
Devs, thank you very much for your hard work.
However, I am not interested in running arc to play STO unless it is my choice, and I realize this is probably out of your hands.
Please give a link to people above you that i can express this feedback about arc. Or if someone reading this can find a link.
I wonder how it's going to be for those delivering this feedback. Something like this?
(Optional)
"Okay so what did they like about Arc?"
"...."
"Okay, what suggestions did they make to make it better?"
"Erm...they thought <insert the one or two constructive feedback suggestions that would be like finding a needle in a haystack>."
"Really? That's it? Well that doesn't sound too much to change. We'll consider Arc to be accepted by the community and ready for mandatory launch once we've made the necessary changes."
I'd hate to be the one that says pretty much every post remotely regarding Arc is indifferent at best or strongly negative it's beyond question. Assuming they were made aware of it I can imagine the response would be "Well we can't do anything about that, let's just have the feedback we can act on."
Devs, thank you very much for your hard work.
However, I am not interested in running arc to play STO unless it is my choice, and I realize this is probably out of your hands.
Please give a link to people above you that i can express this feedback about arc. Or if someone reading this can find a link.
Thanks
Firstly you are correct in saying that ARC is out of the Devs hands. ARC has nothing to do with the Devs.
Secondly regarding giving feedback, just go to the ARC is ready for your feedback thread under galactic news network
I DO NOT WANT.........because I am a 63 year old trekker. this is the ONLY game I play. I have no need for a HUGE download that will take up space on my computer. I do not care about tracking fellow players in other games. I am a life sub who spends additional cash for what I want. been here since beta. However, if not given the opportunity to opt out of this , I may well have to quit the game because I really , really do not want this..........reg
I personally like the arrangement of the game slections.
I find the forum section kind of cluttered, in the current version of Arc that I use, I wish it would only list the forums to the games I currently play. For example, STO's forum is on the bottom right, which I have to scroll down to get to it.
I do like the advanced ability to make one click to Charge Zen. What I do not understand is that I have to input my paypal login everytime, where if I go through the regular website (outside of Arc) my paypal login is already listed.
It's spyware that sits on your hard disk, periodically sending packets to Cryptic's servers about what games you play, how long you play, web sites you visit, words typed out on your keyboard, so Cryptic can hopefully, "tailor" your gaming experience, to you. Which is corporate double talk for "We want to put this spyware on your machine, so we can keep tabs on you, in order to hopefully sell you stuff, but if our computers are ever TRIBBLE and your personal info is compromised, we're not responsible as you have waived any legal recourse by agreeing to our EULA."
Technically any MMO can get this information, especially with shared accounts, without the need to have ARC since they can track your information on the servers. Unless your thinking that Arc will tell them when you're playing non PWE games for some reason.
Technically any MMO can get this information, especially with shared accounts, without the need to have ARC since they can track your information on the servers. Unless your thinking that Arc will tell them when you're playing non PWE games for some reason.
Two words - "browser plugin." This is a new level of intrusion.
Yet, PWE insists that at least STO, if not the entire Cryptic lineup, will remain available via Steam.
Actually, when pressed on this point, Cryptic devs said that their intent was to make sure that the games were still available on Steam. They also admitted that they hadn't figured out exactly how to do this.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I left my very blunt feedback when I uninstalled it but sadly I think resistance is definitely going to be futile on this issue. They're bound to force this horrible software on us whether we want it or not.
Hoggs too much computer resources, vastly slowing down the computer. And it prevents me from 2-boxing on my computer as I am able to do now with STO, which is necessary for my gameplay style.
While the spyware issue is questionable, given ARC is scanning my HDs, it makes me nervous.
ARC features nothing that feels necessary to me. Like the Webbrowser, I got other browsers that are far more efficient, secure, and protected against intrusions. The friend features are unnecessary for me, I rather log in and see who is on. And I have no desire to play any other Perfect World Titles, so having a launcher for other games is unnecessary for me.
Please, let us have the option to keep using the STO launcher. Or give us a version of ARC that functions similarly to a basic game launcher without the clutter.
Comments
...wait, what?
I used to play PWI (and vowed never to return to it again well before PWE bought Cryptic), I have a LTS for Champions Online as well as Star Trek Online and bought the Hero of the North pack for Neverwinter as well as the Legacy Pack for STO. I also generally get at least $200 in Zen a month.
Until this is no longer intended to be mandatory for playing any of my current Cryptic games (I don't care if they make it mandatory for future ones, I just won't play them) I do not intend to spend one more cent on any Cryptic or PWE games.
If it does ACTUALLY become mandatory, I will uninstall everything PWE and Cryptic related and they will NEVER get me back as a customer (regardless of whatever promises they make).
If they have no intention of listening to the outcry of their customer base who say they neither need or even want something like this, and intend to force it upon them anyway, then they deserve to join the ranks of other defunct gaming companies, and DO NOT deserve a "second chance" when they discover they have driven away all their customers.
PWE/Cryptic, you wanted FEEDBACK... How is that for Feedback?
However, I am not interested in running arc to play STO unless it is my choice, and I realize this is probably out of your hands.
Please give a link to people above you that i can express this feedback about arc. Or if someone reading this can find a link.
Thanks
If you were a Steam user you would be uneffected regarding ARC. However if you had to at some point have to uninstall STO from your system, in order to redownload you will initially have to install ARC. ARC has been described by many as the poor man's Steam, alot of players really do dislike it, many see it as spyware, however there has been noting concreate proved that this is the case.
I personally have been using ARC when it was first released 31st May last year, and it has just recently gone through a major transformation. You can download STO without using ARC (there is a thread somewhere explaining how to do that).
I think ARC is really a matter of personal choice. I like it, but I am in a very very small minority of those who do, but like I said the vast majority dislike it alot.
it is just a way they can advertise their other games, launch the other games if you wish to download them, incorporate their news and blogs into it and give people a way to access forums, or buy zen without needing to use a browser. its basically an all in one launcher.
a lot of people do seem to hate it. personally i think they are overreacting as its a pretty minor problem in the grand scheme of life as to how a game launches but whatever. make up your own mind.
Besides the policing part you are correct.
Though it is a bit of extra Spyware (as if we need more) and bloatware as it hogs a bit of extra internet bandwidth and system resources while it runs int the background.
For those reasons I abhor it.
I'm intrigued in what way Arc is 'Spyware' - I mean this from a genuine enquiry, I'm a Mac player so I'm running the old style launcher as Arc isn't Mac compatible.
During the early announcement / first Beta, it was noted that, in many ways, ARC will be a "PWE variant" of Steam, much like Origin is an "EA-Steam".
As has happened to EA (complete pull of EA product from Steam), many are afraid that Valve will cite PWE's ARC as a TOS violation and remove all PWE's products (Cryptic's lineup) from Steam...
Yet, PWE insists that at least STO, if not the entire Cryptic lineup, will remain available via Steam.
Seemingly, this is an incongruity. Claims that a second company will do what the first company desires just because the first company desires it is a fallacy. The second company will do what they want according to their rules, meaning first company's claims that the second company will cooperate is a blatant lie.
However, it has been noted that a "theoretical" ARC-lite, that includes the patcher/launcher abilities but does not include a single shred of "Steam-like" functionality, would seemingly meet the requirements of Steam's TOS that prevent "Steam-clones" from running within Steam. Obviously, to meet this requirement, said launcher would most likely have to be the traditional "activate, patch, launch, deactivate" style that the current launcher is. Coincidentally, a seeming majority of complainers indicate that they have no beef with an "ARC-lite" replacing the current Cryptic launcher, as long as it meets the "activate, patch, launch, deactivate" mandate...
Again, PWE insists that this cannot be allowed to pass. It has to be the full ARC experience or nothing it seems.
Second incongruity. Or second lie.
With this potentially in the back of many people's heads (as discussion of it seems to have dropped by the wayside after PWE's initial and repeated claims about continued Steam availability) there exists a "violation of trust" that is necessary to make an orderly transition possible. As such, all other PWE claims (no backdoor torrent functionality, opt-out of "data mining" actually working, etc.) are immediately questioned and can only be placated by the software doing absolutely nothing that can even be construed as such. Therefore, things like scanning for a non-ARC installation of a PWE game, or the existence of a process that might eventually use a shred of bandwidth, are immediately questioned and despite PWE's claims, believed to be the worse of the two options (as it has been postulated that at least one of PWE's stances will be invalidated by full launch).
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Simply going to point out that there are still tons of EA titles still available through Steam.
The selling point is, once again, "everything is going to be better now". Though I doubt Steam will allow them to distribute their shabby rip-off via Steams architecture and as a resut will most likely terminate it's contract with PWE, effectively removing STO from the Steam library.
Once that happens I look back at all the moments I actually enjjoyed STO, hit uninstall and play something else.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Both are going to do exactly the same thing (soak CPU and bandwidth in the background in order to advertise TRIBBLE at you) and neither one serves any useful purpose other than the initial download of the game files (the game itself should self patch, without a third party).
In a sense they are spyware in the way that google is spyware --- pretty sure steam tracks what you download for their database --- but they do not seem to run through your PC reading all your files etc. Arc would not have to do this, as they already know which cryptic games you play on your account.
Who said that?
Pin them down, mother. Who gave the order?
In Steam's defense it's much less aggressive at advertising (only a pop-up window after a game is closed/when it starts up once in a while), is a lot more efficient in the background, and doesn't install itself as add-ons on all your browsers.
However, I am not interested in running arc to play STO unless it is my choice, and I realize this is probably out of your hands.
Please give a link to people above you that i can express this feedback about arc. Or if someone reading this can find a link.
Thanks
(Optional)
"Okay so what did they like about Arc?"
"...."
"Okay, what suggestions did they make to make it better?"
"Erm...they thought <insert the one or two constructive feedback suggestions that would be like finding a needle in a haystack>."
"Really? That's it? Well that doesn't sound too much to change. We'll consider Arc to be accepted by the community and ready for mandatory launch once we've made the necessary changes."
I'd hate to be the one that says pretty much every post remotely regarding Arc is indifferent at best or strongly negative it's beyond question. Assuming they were made aware of it I can imagine the response would be "Well we can't do anything about that, let's just have the feedback we can act on."
In a Perfect World.....there is no Arc :cool:.
Firstly you are correct in saying that ARC is out of the Devs hands. ARC has nothing to do with the Devs.
Secondly regarding giving feedback, just go to the ARC is ready for your feedback thread under galactic news network
I personally like the arrangement of the game slections.
I find the forum section kind of cluttered, in the current version of Arc that I use, I wish it would only list the forums to the games I currently play. For example, STO's forum is on the bottom right, which I have to scroll down to get to it.
I do like the advanced ability to make one click to Charge Zen. What I do not understand is that I have to input my paypal login everytime, where if I go through the regular website (outside of Arc) my paypal login is already listed.
I have no other feedback at the current time.
A
Real
Catastrophe
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Two words - "browser plugin." This is a new level of intrusion.
Actually, when pressed on this point, Cryptic devs said that their intent was to make sure that the games were still available on Steam. They also admitted that they hadn't figured out exactly how to do this.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Hoggs too much computer resources, vastly slowing down the computer. And it prevents me from 2-boxing on my computer as I am able to do now with STO, which is necessary for my gameplay style.
While the spyware issue is questionable, given ARC is scanning my HDs, it makes me nervous.
ARC features nothing that feels necessary to me. Like the Webbrowser, I got other browsers that are far more efficient, secure, and protected against intrusions. The friend features are unnecessary for me, I rather log in and see who is on. And I have no desire to play any other Perfect World Titles, so having a launcher for other games is unnecessary for me.
Please, let us have the option to keep using the STO launcher. Or give us a version of ARC that functions similarly to a basic game launcher without the clutter.