I dont post at forums but this time It had to be done. The amount of negative feedback from certain individuals is just REDACTED.
If you hate PvP in STO and dont want to participate why post here, why you even bother reading that blog, why you put yourself to that torment.
You dont have to do it , hell you dont have to do anything in this game if you dont want to. But lots of ppl want everything and wants it now and wants to be Kirk allmighty. Well In PvE you can be, I do it often and its fun, for that 15min lol. But you dont see me yeilling in PvP forums that I cant go all Kirk against other players because they wont just roll over and die like most NPCs do
/rant
Really liked that blog, it is nicely written and had Inviting tone to it .
I will be getting in to PvP more, since i finally got a Ship I like to fly as Fed Tac , The Plesh , its best New Yer present from STO , I hate switching ships , and you need diferent setups for PvE and PvP, the Raider with its uni stations gives me flexibility to change just boffs and have a totaly different ship for different stuff , looove it XD.
Now to see in how many different ways can i get others to blow me up , ha ha
Why is there not two ques? Why is it the pre mades are allowed to go in and smash pugs over and over? The biggest thing that keeps a lot of people out is just how unfun it is to q up and have to face a pre made. There needs to be a q for people pugging and a q for those that are making pre mades.
It's nice to see something about pvp be put up but really seems like a huge waste of time as long as the q is the way it is. Until there is two different ques pvp will be dead and it's rather pointless to invite others in so they can just be destroyed by pre mades.
Why is there not two ques? Why is it the pre mades are allowed to go in and smash pugs over and over? The biggest thing that keeps a lot of people out is just how unfun it is to q up and have to face a pre made. There needs to be a q for people pugging and a q for those that are making pre mades.
I have talked with allot of ppl and this thing only would bring many in to PvP
If I want a random Pug match, let it be random Pug match. If I set up min/maxed team, i want to fight min/maxed team because we are looking for a fight.
How hard is to code that Cryptic , hm?
Other diferent thing would be Vanilla PvP. make a set of ships with basic LOCKED gear 2 of each Ship type and Faction, let me chose Ship before match , and give me only option to chose what Boff powers i use on it. So no Doffs, no special and Uni consoles. Only Rep pasive, and Captian Skill points would make a diference (afk tac in Sci ship would perform diferent then Sci in Sci ship). And to make Cryptic money of it charge me per play in it . 1000 dill per match , i would pay that much, even more . . .
As most of us know that Bridge Officer abilities are important but useless unless you have the right Duty Officers. PvP is heavily dependent on Duty Officers to make sure you get the most out of your gear.
I have seen many PvP builds in action and some I question as how they seem to defy simple logic.
A good example would be the JHAS, I have seen this ship shield tank up to 4 ships with only EP2S 1 in play and can shield tank for a good 3 or more minutes and still not go down.
There are no team heals in these situations.
Any one care to share what Duty Officer ability(ies) would allow this.
I do know that said players were using the Borg Shield because I would see the shield heal Proc. go off.
I have never seen the Borg shield proc go off so many times and give such a large amount of shield heal to be able to keep their shields in constant white.
So somehow they were able to reduce the amount of incoming damage their shields were taking and/or they were able to out heal the amount of damage their shields were taking.
I can understand being able to shield tank 1 or 2 ships, maybe 3, but not 4.
Anyone care to share their Duty Officer, ship console(s) info to allow this.
This would be helpful to get players that don?t know a way to start thinking in terms of survivability .
Its not about duty officers... its about understanding game mechaincs.
A day or two ago I reposted some basic Escort stuff I wrote almost 3 years ago now for some one in the PvP forum.
Read my old reposts about piloting and understanding Shield / Hull / Defense tanking.
I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to explain things away... However I have been hearing for a few years now from people complaining that this Jem or this Defiant or that bop is tanking way to much dmg. Only to see those same players trying to fly those same ships and blowing up in seconds. I remember getting bit@@ed at one time in a zone when in my bop I pretty much single handed wiped a fed team. (gear creep won't let that ever happen again) it wasn't magic it was just watching there buffs... and NOT being in there arcs when I should have been... and knowing when to use things like evasive because I stupidly flew into a pain zone.
Its not about the escort/bop alone its about understanding the 3 forms of defense in STO and how they relate to your "tank"... and how you can learn to role stradagies to extend the time to respawn on any ship class. The difference is in the piloting and understanding when you can do what and when to hold X or Y buff. There is really no magic bullet tank or kill it all doff.
As far as a direct answer to the BUG shield tanking quesiton goes.
It seems you where perhaps not looking at all his buffs.
My simple guess...
Fleet Shield... meaning he was likely running 20-30% resist by natural default vs what you guys where shooting at him.
EPTS... would add another 20% or so
If he is using the +20 shield power proc doff... he was likely at 100-130 shield power at all times making for another 10-20% resist.
Bottom line worse case he could well have had 60% shield resistance with just EPTS running. Its not hard to see why with everyone that can load a EPTS and run a fleet shield being able to sit north of 50% resist at all times why super spike builds exist.
That is only part of the picture though... if you read my posts I linked. He may well have also been smart enough to understand how his defense numbers work... could have been running Aux to Damp.. and Omega (not sure if you where watching for those) to keep his defense numbers over 70 when he needed it... and even when he appeared to be stopped (was likely in reverse) he was likely still maintaining 50-60 defense. Doing that would have ensured he wasn't taking any dmg his Natural Shield Regen (with Borg and Rom Reps) could handle.
Other diferent thing would be Vanilla PvP. make a set of ships with basic LOCKED gear 2 of each Ship type and Faction, let me chose Ship before match , and give me only option to chose what Boff powers i use on it. So no Doffs, no special and Uni consoles. Only Rep pasive, and Captian Skill points would make a diference (afk tac in Sci ship would perform diferent then Sci in Sci ship). And to make Cryptic money of it charge me per play in it . 1000 dill per match , i would pay that much, even more . . .
I would consider setting everything except the ship's captain itself to a predetermined template, actually. Good idea otherwise.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
if not already given just a heads up for those who think the don't own the gear for pvp:
- u can build ur own build! IT'S NOT ONLY 'BOUT COOKIECUTTERS!!! u may need a while, but i can assure u even will change builds basing on taste from time to time. and none of those got to be a cookiecutter...
- U DON'T NEED ALL GEAR PURPLE MK XII/FLEET/REP GEAR TO BE COMPETITVE (remember there's things like boffs, skills, etc.)!
u usually can go with gear up from green mk xii/blue mk xi consoles/doffs, mk xi maco/fleet/borg set parts and (purple) mk xi weapons. i even go into pvp with purple mk xi normal gear (deflector/shields...) if my char not already is repped out.
- if the build fits them most t5 ships will also be competitve in pvp.
in the end it stays pvp. to quote gohan:"it's pvp, someone's gotta die". just find the way to let that be the others and don't bother too much if it's u .
it's always about u on your team and the other team. many, MANY variations possible here.
Why is there not two ques? Why is it the pre mades are allowed to go in and smash pugs over and over? The biggest thing that keeps a lot of people out is just how unfun it is to q up and have to face a pre made. There needs to be a q for people pugging and a q for those that are making pre mades.
It's nice to see something about pvp be put up but really seems like a huge waste of time as long as the q is the way it is. Until there is two different ques pvp will be dead and it's rather pointless to invite others in so they can just be destroyed by pre mades.
The problem there is most those teams are afraid because they can't stand to lose to a better team. The days of friendly competition has gone out the window since F2P. Likewise the players have too. When I started pvping I ran into TSI/QEW/LORE/7th Core premades all the time. Mostly instead of ******** (mind you, like anyone else, I have said things I regret during and at the end of matches....) about it I tried to kill them. If I got a kill I was happy. Likewise with team development. It's not a overnight phenomenon nor is your game play as a player.
If you really want to make PVP fun join TD and have fun there. That is really the only place, IMO. Most the current premades are afraid to fight us (there are a couple like RE that have and they are AWESOME guys!). I look forward to the day premades ask for a matches daily/weekly w/e fits but until then I will focus on Tyler Durden matches and stay away from the queues. The queues hold little to no challenge.
As far as the queue system goes, it's not exactly a team matching system. That would be nice if they would at least modify the current queue system to match teams. I might even play my fed more then.
All I know is any premade that has to smash the queues and think they are good should ask us for a private. Name the time and date.
I'm not trying to be cocky here. Pandas have been attacked the last year with baseless claims that are absolutely untrue. During that time all these groups have lost any ability to compete against us. The messed up thing is, early in the year many fleets were on Panda vent doing matches TD style having fun. Lots of fun fights. Both sides won and lost. All of the sudden they are losing because of magic programs. Now those teams won't fight us yet we post almost every match on youtube for review. Anyway if teams think that they are just stupid and shouldn't call themselves a team. You lose because we have years of experience fighting each other (mostly friendly) and our teamwork is 2nd to none now. If those teams that thought they were the best earlier this year wouldn't have went ballz deep with excuses on made up automated program TRIBBLE, well maybe things would be different. But instead of accepting that everyone loses, there had to be some magic reason.
Anyway after 4 years in this game, I am tired of the crying and BS. It's just sad. I guess this is a formal callout to those TRIBBLE talking fleets. Man up, or shut up. Simple. When you silly little girly girls want to learn how PVP is in a actual competitive environment... Well name your date and time.
And to end, some of my best friends in this game are F2P guys who sent me a random tell in a match. A polite question goes a lot farther than rage. At the end of the day all of us want to have good fun matches against strong players. There is little reason to be a douche.
1) Fleet Ship... assuming you already own the basic version 4-7mil EC (depending on the market... or very low Zen cost... low as in earn it in 1-2 days of converting Dilihitum)
If you don't already own the basic version... 16-28mil for 4 fleet units.
2) 5 half DECENT doffs. There are a great many doffs that DO not cost a fortune... there are also blue versions of many that are 95% as good... really what is the difference between a 30% chance to proc and a 35% chance... get the 400k blue and upgrade later if you feel the need.
3-5 million EC
3) Borg 2 piece... (MK XI is good enough its all I have ever run)... its Omega tier 2 and even a BRAND new toon could earn them in under a week... and pretty much everyone that plays this game even a little likely already has a set... or has the omega marks to make it happen with little pain.
4) Fleet shield or Maco Shield... again almost everyone that does PvE Already has one... if they don't its not hard to pick up either... and neither costs millions of ec just grind time. (which isn't all that grindy)
5) Weapons... Fleet wepaons... I don't really like them myself... Purple MK XII with half decent mods (not accx3) but [ACC] [CrtH]x2 or [acc]x2... easily doable for 3-8million ec. However on the cheep... MK XI purple (not that much of a down grade to be honest) depending on the weapon type less then 1 million ec. (Garbage engine and deflector drops VENDOR for 50-80k each this really isn't all that grindy)
Bottom line I could log into one of my toons right now... buy a fleet ship and all my basic gear and everything in all from the ground up be up and running under 10mil... The handful of people that dedicate millions of EC to one build don't get 1000x more performance... new players don't have to be crazy min maxers to have a good time, or be competitive with them for that matter either.
The problem with PvP is not PtW Ships (Lockbox, Lobi, Z-store), but the unregulated and imbalanced PvP format. There needs to be two PvP modes; one for pre-formed teams that can go against each other and the other is the PuG format that takes players (based on DPS, survival and support ratings) that the system is form without any faction considerations. The team PvP would be factioned based (FED and KDF) which can simulate the ongoing border disputes. This version would provide additional team rewards for winning and theall around rewards for playing. The PuG would be the more standard best player reward, but this is more than just best DPS and should bring in values based on critical actions to weaken an enemy, take and hold an objective, and other factors that bring balance to the TAC-ENG-SCI comparisons. Of course the goal is to kill the enemy, but there should be other means of being rated as best player. There would still be other rewards for playing, supporting and completing objectives (based on teamwork, not individualism).
I tried PvP in the past and found it could be fun with a good team, but too often there was no balance and no motivation for wanting to return to the experience. A system that gives balance and a reward system that looks at something other than DPS will make more players want to participate and this will bring PvP back to life.
Yep true , but try to explain to DPS PvE only mindset that your DPS eint worth nothing if your target is ziping around with high resists
Iw set up Plesh to fly around at CONSTANT (only has 5 seconds drop) 60%HUll , 60%Shield resists (at times hiting cap) and 105 defence, self constant heling by boffs for 10k HulHp (25% of ships total hull every 10s , having hazards and Tss ready ha ha
Try to kill me kirk style and you fail, you need to CC my TRIBBLE, stop me, rob me of by resists and def
Other then that, I stopped reading the bolg, as it is useless for me, as I don'ty PVP, as it takes to much investment (time EC and Zen) for little gain. (Blown up extremely quickly, takes along time to start queues, and most people are rude.)
Becuase of that, I see no reason to read this blog.
admire the awesomely staged screenshot by @P_Sutherland :P
I find it funny how many seem to want to blame Cryptic for the sorry state pvp is in. They didn't do a lot to support it and should of done a better job but it's the pvp community that has killed STO pvp more then anything.
Did Cryptic make people form teams with the sole purpose of shutting down the q and crushing people?
Did Cryptic force you to use every exploit that could be found and build teams around it with the express purpose of ruining others enjoyment?
No they didn't. It's true they should address issues quicker and act to fix things but the players themselves do not need to make the problems worse. The pvp community has done everything in it's power to make pvp as unwelcoming to new players as they can. The pvp community has acted in a way to drive out as many people from doing pvp as possible.
So go ahead and blame Cryptic all you want but till the pvp community acts in a way to help bring people in to pvp and stop driving people out they shouldn't be getting any support from the rest of the community or Cryptic.
Your absolutely right genada!! Those PvP TRIBBLE with their Hilberts Guide, PvP bootcamp program, DDIS build guide and general desire to help the new guy if asked attitude just shows the levels of elitism and disdain they have for bringing new people into STO PvP.
Being pvp hasnt changed in the existence of the game atleast since I started almost 3 years ago its pretty boring especially since its not any different than death match based pvp of games in the 80's lol.
If I do go into pvp I target one of the pvp boot camp title ppl waste them within a few seconds and then leave out of bordum.
I think Branflakes should delete his own OP for violating the PWE terms of conduct by trolling the forums with another PvP guest blog. If that isn't textbook trolling, I don't know what is.
I enjoy pvp a lot, specifically Kerrat, its actually one of the only things that keeps me playing this game. I will however agree with some others points on that there is a large barrier to entry with PvP. I don't even bother trying to get friends to play this game with me, it would take them over a month to even get where I am, and that's if their also willing to throw in some cash to help the process.
I enjoy pvp a lot, specifically Kerrat, its actually one of the only things that keeps me playing this game. I will however agree with some others points on that there is a large barrier to entry with PvP. I don't even bother trying to get friends to play this game with me, it would take them over a month to even get where I am, and that's if their also willing to throw in some cash to help the process.
Not to say your point isn't valid. However isn't that true of any mmo... and frankly are not most MMOs much more then 1 month of grind to catch up to the existing player base ?
That is the point, no one seem to know OR no one wants to the say how that person was able to SHIELD TANK all 4 ships despite those ships using everything they have on that JHAS Shields.
Damage is damage, what would be nice if someone can give use two or three shield setups that would allow this to happen not just plain? Well I think this or I think that.
We can spend all day saying I think this or maybe it was that.
I would like to know COLD HARD FACTS nothing else
This is what I know:
The ship was a JHAS
It was only using EPTS 1
It was using the Borg shields (because I saw the Proc pop very frequently for me not to notice)
It did use Haz Emt and Pol Hull
And no they were not cross healing him he was a solo player
Now from that info how can one SHIELD TANK not Hull tank (SHIELD TANK) 4 ships plus 4 Elite runabout pets?
That is the point, no one seem to know OR no one wants to the say how that person was able to SHIELD TANK all 4 ships despite those ships using everything they have on that JHAS Shields.
Damage is damage, what would be nice if someone can give use two or three shield setups that would allow this to happen not just plain? Well I think this or I think that.
We can spend all day saying I think this or maybe it was that.
I would like to know COLD HARD FACTS nothing else
This is what I know:
The ship was a JHAS
It was only using EPTS 1
It was using the Borg shields (because I saw the Proc pop very frequently for me not to notice)
It did use Haz Emt and Pol Hull
And no they were not cross healing him he was a solo player
Now from that info how can one SHIELD TANK not Hull tank (SHIELD TANK) 4 ships plus 4 Elite runabout pets?
Be specific now.
You can get the borg proc (hull I believe) with engine/def. If they were using the shield they would have the TB and shield proc. If they didn't have the borg shield, Adapted MACO (KHG) + rom boffs + T4 placate passive is insanely powerful.
2 Damage Control Engineer doffs cycling epte/s1.
Nearly 100% uptime epte/s so basically 100 engine/shield power.
2 Conn Officers (Attack Pattern)
Cycle APD with APO and it's something like 15 seconds between Omega.
1-2 Shield Distribution doffs or a aux2id/hazzard for dmg resist with brace4impact. (or any combo of the 2 if they have the 6th doff) Lots of fun ones you can use here anyway.
Did they happen to have aux2id?
Polarize hull makes you immune to TB/TBR/GW/EWP and decent damage resist.
That said four players not coordinating against a placate stacking speed tank that is nearly 100% immune to holds, disables, stuns isn't really that difficult with the current game.
And with the borg hull proc + PH/HE (and possibly aux2id running @ around 23s with 1 doff and any number of sizable resistance doffs --- that is more than 120% hull points every 45-60s with damage resist upward to 60-70%. Add a extremely high defense you're probably looking at not much over 10-20% of weapon hits.
Just a guess. Can't say I have raw numbers but you could talk to f00k and ask him questions. He could probably give you a better idea as I haven't flown a JHAS in sometime.
are not most MMOs much more then 1 month of grind to catch up to the existing player base ?
This may be so, but for me and many other players that I met in my time in PVP, STO was the first MMO game. Not everyone comes to STO because they want an MMO gear progression experience. Some players just want to fly their beloved space ships and long for the old days when the game was 100% grind-free.
So it's a matter of perspective. Is STO a grind-heavy game compared to your run-of-the-mill fantasy MMO with their dungeons and raids? No. Is it grind-heavy when compared to how it used to be in its first year after launch? Yes.
I think you already got multiple answers. You also answered your own question. What you described all you need to tank players that don't know better.
1 EPTS
2 borg shield heal
3 High shield and aux power (shield for the resist aux for the boosted borg heal)
4 most likely (assuming) +20 shield power weapon hit proc doff. ]
5 also likely (assuming again) Borg tier 4 shield regen passive and romulan tier 4 on hit regen (also possible he had the placate romulan tier 4 and was blinding the most dangerous of the people shooting at them vastly reducing the incoming dmg)
6 again likely (more assumptions) the dude had 1 Embassy on hit shield heal sci console... the bug can only slot one of these. Still they help.
7 you don't mention it... but most likely using the helmsman trait to use evasive as often as possible to evade fire all together... related likely running 1 copy of Omega with cool down doffs or simply loading 2 copies to again avoid fire.
8 likely not flying directly into other escorts pain zones
9 also most likely that at least 2 of the 4 people shooting at him had almost no hurt Its not hard to tank people running 50 weapon power ect.
Honestly if it bothered you why didn't you simply ask them... good chance they would have gladly detailed his/her setup for you.
If you understand the mechanics its easy to sea multiple ways to do just what you described with just epts and borg shield.
Lets assume again that his shield power was at 130 the entire time. (with leech and the +20 shield power doff my bug is at 130 all the time with a setting of 50 so this is pretty likely)
- This would mean at 130 his shield regen was natural (not counting reps) 420% of normal... the borg shield is a regen shield and gets a large shield heal natural every 6s from regen.
- This would also mean he would have had 36% natural shield resist from power alone add to that the +18 resist from EPTS 1 = 54% shield resistance (cap is 75%)
- Now you have to factor in Reputatioins. Romulan rep would have been applying shield heals when ever someone hit them with a critical hit... and the Omega tier 4 would have added yet more shield regen every 6 seconds when the shield would regen.
So there is your answer... yes had to make a few assumptions because you didn't ask this player what they where doing beyond the obvious shield and etps... but yes what you describe sound pertty standard. Its not broken its just one person understanding the system and some people flying against them that don't.
. This article doesn't inform, it only tells us what we (should) already know. Watching the end of DS9 or the beginning of First Contact is not going to help me in a PVP match on a video game. Sorry. It doesn't work that way. I can only hope the poster is RPing this whole thing.
Nbreeki
Starfleet Dental
I disagree with you there. The intro to First Contact shows exactly how effective a well-designed top-tier ship can be, and how cleanly and efficiently it sweeps away hordes of sloppily built mirandas and unprepared first-type PVPers.
And how, occasionally, a 'nonvital' system will bug out and your ship will randomly explode, so you should just calmly wait to respawn and win the rest of the battle.
Yes, the Borg cube is a great role model - and inspiration - for how you should conduct yourself in PVP.
Grind up a 500,000,000 EC budget for consoles and duty officers, spend real cash on c-store/lockbox ships, and resign yourself to the constraints of an "approved," career-specific, cookie-cutter build.
This narrow-thinking kind of "advice" makes for a bland, homogenous player base.
There isn't many times I have agreeed with you, but this time I completely agree. In PVP, there is a set of builds, (MaxDPS, Heal, A2B, Alpha, Drain and Tank) and no vairation on them.
Those two comments right at the beginning of this thread pretty much sums up how to do well in PvP.
PvP in its current state ultimately comes down to who has the best gear/Ship/Boff/Doff/Rep reward passives combo.
Player skill is pretty much non existent in it's current form.
Don't believe me? Roll a char to 50, fit only white gear and no uni consoles, have no Rep rewards, No Doffs, only use green Boffs with no passives, Remove all your traits and finally, jump in a standard Lvl 50 unlock ship.
Now jump into a PvP scenario and see how long you last....
Grind up a 500,000,000 EC budget for consoles and duty officers, spend real cash on c-store/lockbox ships, and resign yourself to the constraints of an "approved," career-specific, cookie-cutter build.
This narrow-thinking kind of "advice" makes for a bland, homogenous player base.
Yep. In my experience with PvP in other MMOs, those who have the absolute most expensive and/or hardest to grind gear, and 1 of a few select builds for your profession (sometimes only a few specific professions), are the ones who will not just pwn you, but also insult and laugh at you in the process.
If you don't don't have expensive gear and a meta-build, you're going to have a bad time. Your opponents will humiliate you, killing you over and over again and talking about how much you suck. Your team mates will yell at you and after the match kick you from the team, then go around telling everybody not to invite you to their teams for PvP because of how much you suck. Edit: And if you manage to beat a hardcore PvPer, they'll complain about how OP *you* are and/or accuse you of cheating somehow. Because hardcore PvPers hate to lose and get off on humiliating others that have little to no chance against them.
You can't use just any profession and any type of build. Eventually you'll find there are certain builds used against you and you will grow to despise those builds. You'll complain about it with others all the time until eventually..........you wind up using what you despise the most because it's the only thing that works. Often times it is something that is just too OP. After a while you'll be ashamed of yourself for giving in and just going with the crowd and jumping off the bridge because everybody else did it first. There's never any water below. Just large jagged rocks. Once you jump there's no changing your mind.
No thanks. I got sick of the BS in other games. I'll be damned if I'm gonna go through it again. Ever try to PvP in the Jade Quarry in Guild Wars 1 (GW Factions expansion)? Yeah. I use to spend hours there every day. And quite often there would be some elitist jerk moaning and griping all day about how much warriors suck there. The warrior character class was my favorite. But eventually I realized after trying so many different builds that the elitists were right. And I found myself using a necro bomber, an OP build that usually nobody is prepared to counter, despite it being a popular build. I despised the necro bomber build. Far too many times losing matches because of that. Just running along the map, teleport to the NPC shrine and BOOM!, blow myself up instantly killing the NPCs and taking control of the shrine for my team. Over and over and over.
Eventually I stopped playing GW, but not really because of having to resort to using a build I hated. It was because the player population was dwindling due to GW2 on the horizon, and there were mostly nothing but friggen bots left. I was lucky to get at least 1 human player on my team in a match. Out of a team size of 8, I would usually end up with 6-7 bots all programmed to follow a specific path, as well as the opposing team being mostly bots. It went from PvP to BvB (bot vs. bot).
Comments
/channel_join Tyler Durden
It's a fun place to pew pew.
Cheers!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's nice to see something about pvp be put up but really seems like a huge waste of time as long as the q is the way it is. Until there is two different ques pvp will be dead and it's rather pointless to invite others in so they can just be destroyed by pre mades.
I have talked with allot of ppl and this thing only would bring many in to PvP
If I want a random Pug match, let it be random Pug match. If I set up min/maxed team, i want to fight min/maxed team because we are looking for a fight.
How hard is to code that Cryptic , hm?
Other diferent thing would be Vanilla PvP. make a set of ships with basic LOCKED gear 2 of each Ship type and Faction, let me chose Ship before match , and give me only option to chose what Boff powers i use on it. So no Doffs, no special and Uni consoles. Only Rep pasive, and Captian Skill points would make a diference (afk tac in Sci ship would perform diferent then Sci in Sci ship). And to make Cryptic money of it charge me per play in it . 1000 dill per match , i would pay that much, even more . . .
Its not about duty officers... its about understanding game mechaincs.
A day or two ago I reposted some basic Escort stuff I wrote almost 3 years ago now for some one in the PvP forum.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=969181
Read my old reposts about piloting and understanding Shield / Hull / Defense tanking.
I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to explain things away... However I have been hearing for a few years now from people complaining that this Jem or this Defiant or that bop is tanking way to much dmg. Only to see those same players trying to fly those same ships and blowing up in seconds. I remember getting bit@@ed at one time in a zone when in my bop I pretty much single handed wiped a fed team. (gear creep won't let that ever happen again) it wasn't magic it was just watching there buffs... and NOT being in there arcs when I should have been... and knowing when to use things like evasive because I stupidly flew into a pain zone.
Its not about the escort/bop alone its about understanding the 3 forms of defense in STO and how they relate to your "tank"... and how you can learn to role stradagies to extend the time to respawn on any ship class. The difference is in the piloting and understanding when you can do what and when to hold X or Y buff. There is really no magic bullet tank or kill it all doff.
It seems you where perhaps not looking at all his buffs.
My simple guess...
Fleet Shield... meaning he was likely running 20-30% resist by natural default vs what you guys where shooting at him.
EPTS... would add another 20% or so
If he is using the +20 shield power proc doff... he was likely at 100-130 shield power at all times making for another 10-20% resist.
Bottom line worse case he could well have had 60% shield resistance with just EPTS running. Its not hard to see why with everyone that can load a EPTS and run a fleet shield being able to sit north of 50% resist at all times why super spike builds exist.
That is only part of the picture though... if you read my posts I linked. He may well have also been smart enough to understand how his defense numbers work... could have been running Aux to Damp.. and Omega (not sure if you where watching for those) to keep his defense numbers over 70 when he needed it... and even when he appeared to be stopped (was likely in reverse) he was likely still maintaining 50-60 defense. Doing that would have ensured he wasn't taking any dmg his Natural Shield Regen (with Borg and Rom Reps) could handle.
I would consider setting everything except the ship's captain itself to a predetermined template, actually. Good idea otherwise.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
- u can build ur own build! IT'S NOT ONLY 'BOUT COOKIECUTTERS!!! u may need a while, but i can assure u even will change builds basing on taste from time to time. and none of those got to be a cookiecutter...
- U DON'T NEED ALL GEAR PURPLE MK XII/FLEET/REP GEAR TO BE COMPETITVE (remember there's things like boffs, skills, etc.)!
u usually can go with gear up from green mk xii/blue mk xi consoles/doffs, mk xi maco/fleet/borg set parts and (purple) mk xi weapons. i even go into pvp with purple mk xi normal gear (deflector/shields...) if my char not already is repped out.
- if the build fits them most t5 ships will also be competitve in pvp.
in the end it stays pvp. to quote gohan:"it's pvp, someone's gotta die". just find the way to let that be the others and don't bother too much if it's u
it's always about u on your team and the other team. many, MANY variations possible here.
so, to quote horizon: "have fun kill bad guys".
and don't care about myths like "p2w"
The problem there is most those teams are afraid because they can't stand to lose to a better team. The days of friendly competition has gone out the window since F2P. Likewise the players have too. When I started pvping I ran into TSI/QEW/LORE/7th Core premades all the time. Mostly instead of ******** (mind you, like anyone else, I have said things I regret during and at the end of matches....) about it I tried to kill them. If I got a kill I was happy. Likewise with team development. It's not a overnight phenomenon nor is your game play as a player.
If you really want to make PVP fun join TD and have fun there. That is really the only place, IMO. Most the current premades are afraid to fight us (there are a couple like RE that have and they are AWESOME guys!). I look forward to the day premades ask for a matches daily/weekly w/e fits but until then I will focus on Tyler Durden matches and stay away from the queues. The queues hold little to no challenge.
As far as the queue system goes, it's not exactly a team matching system. That would be nice if they would at least modify the current queue system to match teams. I might even play my fed more then.
All I know is any premade that has to smash the queues and think they are good should ask us for a private. Name the time and date.
I'm not trying to be cocky here. Pandas have been attacked the last year with baseless claims that are absolutely untrue. During that time all these groups have lost any ability to compete against us. The messed up thing is, early in the year many fleets were on Panda vent doing matches TD style having fun. Lots of fun fights. Both sides won and lost. All of the sudden they are losing because of magic programs. Now those teams won't fight us yet we post almost every match on youtube for review. Anyway if teams think that they are just stupid and shouldn't call themselves a team. You lose because we have years of experience fighting each other (mostly friendly) and our teamwork is 2nd to none now. If those teams that thought they were the best earlier this year wouldn't have went ballz deep with excuses on made up automated program TRIBBLE, well maybe things would be different. But instead of accepting that everyone loses, there had to be some magic reason.
Anyway after 4 years in this game, I am tired of the crying and BS. It's just sad. I guess this is a formal callout to those TRIBBLE talking fleets. Man up, or shut up. Simple. When you silly little girly girls want to learn how PVP is in a actual competitive environment... Well name your date and time.
And to end, some of my best friends in this game are F2P guys who sent me a random tell in a match. A polite question goes a lot farther than rage. At the end of the day all of us want to have good fun matches against strong players. There is little reason to be a douche.
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1) Fleet Ship... assuming you already own the basic version 4-7mil EC (depending on the market... or very low Zen cost... low as in earn it in 1-2 days of converting Dilihitum)
If you don't already own the basic version... 16-28mil for 4 fleet units.
2) 5 half DECENT doffs. There are a great many doffs that DO not cost a fortune... there are also blue versions of many that are 95% as good... really what is the difference between a 30% chance to proc and a 35% chance... get the 400k blue and upgrade later if you feel the need.
3-5 million EC
3) Borg 2 piece... (MK XI is good enough its all I have ever run)... its Omega tier 2 and even a BRAND new toon could earn them in under a week... and pretty much everyone that plays this game even a little likely already has a set... or has the omega marks to make it happen with little pain.
4) Fleet shield or Maco Shield... again almost everyone that does PvE Already has one... if they don't its not hard to pick up either... and neither costs millions of ec just grind time. (which isn't all that grindy)
5) Weapons... Fleet wepaons... I don't really like them myself... Purple MK XII with half decent mods (not accx3) but [ACC] [CrtH]x2 or [acc]x2... easily doable for 3-8million ec. However on the cheep... MK XI purple (not that much of a down grade to be honest) depending on the weapon type less then 1 million ec. (Garbage engine and deflector drops VENDOR for 50-80k each this really isn't all that grindy)
Bottom line I could log into one of my toons right now... buy a fleet ship and all my basic gear and everything in all from the ground up be up and running under 10mil... The handful of people that dedicate millions of EC to one build don't get 1000x more performance... new players don't have to be crazy min maxers to have a good time, or be competitive with them for that matter either.
I tried PvP in the past and found it could be fun with a good team, but too often there was no balance and no motivation for wanting to return to the experience. A system that gives balance and a reward system that looks at something other than DPS will make more players want to participate and this will bring PvP back to life.
Yep true , but try to explain to DPS PvE only mindset that your DPS eint worth nothing if your target is ziping around with high resists
Iw set up Plesh to fly around at CONSTANT (only has 5 seconds drop) 60%HUll , 60%Shield resists (at times hiting cap) and 105 defence, self constant heling by boffs for 10k HulHp (25% of ships total hull every 10s , having hazards and Tss ready ha ha
Try to kill me kirk style and you fail, you need to CC my TRIBBLE, stop me, rob me of by resists and def
admire the awesomely staged screenshot by @P_Sutherland :P
Did Cryptic make people form teams with the sole purpose of shutting down the q and crushing people?
Did Cryptic force you to use every exploit that could be found and build teams around it with the express purpose of ruining others enjoyment?
No they didn't. It's true they should address issues quicker and act to fix things but the players themselves do not need to make the problems worse. The pvp community has done everything in it's power to make pvp as unwelcoming to new players as they can. The pvp community has acted in a way to drive out as many people from doing pvp as possible.
So go ahead and blame Cryptic all you want but till the pvp community acts in a way to help bring people in to pvp and stop driving people out they shouldn't be getting any support from the rest of the community or Cryptic.
R.I.P
If I do go into pvp I target one of the pvp boot camp title ppl waste them within a few seconds and then leave out of bordum.
I watch the only good STO podcast STOked Radio
Want to learn more about any of the above? Let me know!
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I watch the only good STO podcast STOked Radio
Want to learn more about any of the above? Let me know!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Also Happy New Year.
Not to say your point isn't valid. However isn't that true of any mmo... and frankly are not most MMOs much more then 1 month of grind to catch up to the existing player base ?
That is the point, no one seem to know OR no one wants to the say how that person was able to SHIELD TANK all 4 ships despite those ships using everything they have on that JHAS Shields.
Damage is damage, what would be nice if someone can give use two or three shield setups that would allow this to happen not just plain? Well I think this or I think that.
We can spend all day saying I think this or maybe it was that.
I would like to know COLD HARD FACTS nothing else
This is what I know:
The ship was a JHAS
It was only using EPTS 1
It was using the Borg shields (because I saw the Proc pop very frequently for me not to notice)
It did use Haz Emt and Pol Hull
And no they were not cross healing him he was a solo player
Now from that info how can one SHIELD TANK not Hull tank (SHIELD TANK) 4 ships plus 4 Elite runabout pets?
Be specific now.
You can get the borg proc (hull I believe) with engine/def. If they were using the shield they would have the TB and shield proc. If they didn't have the borg shield, Adapted MACO (KHG) + rom boffs + T4 placate passive is insanely powerful.
2 Damage Control Engineer doffs cycling epte/s1.
Nearly 100% uptime epte/s so basically 100 engine/shield power.
2 Conn Officers (Attack Pattern)
Cycle APD with APO and it's something like 15 seconds between Omega.
1-2 Shield Distribution doffs or a aux2id/hazzard for dmg resist with brace4impact. (or any combo of the 2 if they have the 6th doff) Lots of fun ones you can use here anyway.
Did they happen to have aux2id?
Polarize hull makes you immune to TB/TBR/GW/EWP and decent damage resist.
That said four players not coordinating against a placate stacking speed tank that is nearly 100% immune to holds, disables, stuns isn't really that difficult with the current game.
And with the borg hull proc + PH/HE (and possibly aux2id running @ around 23s with 1 doff and any number of sizable resistance doffs --- that is more than 120% hull points every 45-60s with damage resist upward to 60-70%. Add a extremely high defense you're probably looking at not much over 10-20% of weapon hits.
Just a guess. Can't say I have raw numbers but you could talk to f00k and ask him questions. He could probably give you a better idea as I haven't flown a JHAS in sometime.
Hope that helps.
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So it's a matter of perspective. Is STO a grind-heavy game compared to your run-of-the-mill fantasy MMO with their dungeons and raids? No. Is it grind-heavy when compared to how it used to be in its first year after launch? Yes.
This!
Let me build some pvp maps!!
I think you already got multiple answers. You also answered your own question. What you described all you need to tank players that don't know better.
1 EPTS
2 borg shield heal
3 High shield and aux power (shield for the resist aux for the boosted borg heal)
4 most likely (assuming) +20 shield power weapon hit proc doff. ]
5 also likely (assuming again) Borg tier 4 shield regen passive and romulan tier 4 on hit regen (also possible he had the placate romulan tier 4 and was blinding the most dangerous of the people shooting at them vastly reducing the incoming dmg)
6 again likely (more assumptions) the dude had 1 Embassy on hit shield heal sci console... the bug can only slot one of these. Still they help.
7 you don't mention it... but most likely using the helmsman trait to use evasive as often as possible to evade fire all together... related likely running 1 copy of Omega with cool down doffs or simply loading 2 copies to again avoid fire.
8 likely not flying directly into other escorts pain zones
9 also most likely that at least 2 of the 4 people shooting at him had almost no hurt Its not hard to tank people running 50 weapon power ect.
Honestly if it bothered you why didn't you simply ask them... good chance they would have gladly detailed his/her setup for you.
If you understand the mechanics its easy to sea multiple ways to do just what you described with just epts and borg shield.
Lets assume again that his shield power was at 130 the entire time. (with leech and the +20 shield power doff my bug is at 130 all the time with a setting of 50 so this is pretty likely)
- This would mean at 130 his shield regen was natural (not counting reps) 420% of normal... the borg shield is a regen shield and gets a large shield heal natural every 6s from regen.
- This would also mean he would have had 36% natural shield resist from power alone add to that the +18 resist from EPTS 1 = 54% shield resistance (cap is 75%)
- Now you have to factor in Reputatioins. Romulan rep would have been applying shield heals when ever someone hit them with a critical hit... and the Omega tier 4 would have added yet more shield regen every 6 seconds when the shield would regen.
So there is your answer... yes had to make a few assumptions because you didn't ask this player what they where doing beyond the obvious shield and etps... but yes what you describe sound pertty standard. Its not broken its just one person understanding the system and some people flying against them that don't.
I disagree with you there. The intro to First Contact shows exactly how effective a well-designed top-tier ship can be, and how cleanly and efficiently it sweeps away hordes of sloppily built mirandas and unprepared first-type PVPers.
And how, occasionally, a 'nonvital' system will bug out and your ship will randomly explode, so you should just calmly wait to respawn and win the rest of the battle.
Yes, the Borg cube is a great role model - and inspiration - for how you should conduct yourself in PVP.
And this quote:
Those two comments right at the beginning of this thread pretty much sums up how to do well in PvP.
PvP in its current state ultimately comes down to who has the best gear/Ship/Boff/Doff/Rep reward passives combo.
Player skill is pretty much non existent in it's current form.
Don't believe me? Roll a char to 50, fit only white gear and no uni consoles, have no Rep rewards, No Doffs, only use green Boffs with no passives, Remove all your traits and finally, jump in a standard Lvl 50 unlock ship.
Now jump into a PvP scenario and see how long you last....
Beta player - forum knows jack as to when I started
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Yep. In my experience with PvP in other MMOs, those who have the absolute most expensive and/or hardest to grind gear, and 1 of a few select builds for your profession (sometimes only a few specific professions), are the ones who will not just pwn you, but also insult and laugh at you in the process.
If you don't don't have expensive gear and a meta-build, you're going to have a bad time. Your opponents will humiliate you, killing you over and over again and talking about how much you suck. Your team mates will yell at you and after the match kick you from the team, then go around telling everybody not to invite you to their teams for PvP because of how much you suck. Edit: And if you manage to beat a hardcore PvPer, they'll complain about how OP *you* are and/or accuse you of cheating somehow. Because hardcore PvPers hate to lose and get off on humiliating others that have little to no chance against them.
You can't use just any profession and any type of build. Eventually you'll find there are certain builds used against you and you will grow to despise those builds. You'll complain about it with others all the time until eventually..........you wind up using what you despise the most because it's the only thing that works. Often times it is something that is just too OP. After a while you'll be ashamed of yourself for giving in and just going with the crowd and jumping off the bridge because everybody else did it first. There's never any water below. Just large jagged rocks. Once you jump there's no changing your mind.
No thanks. I got sick of the BS in other games. I'll be damned if I'm gonna go through it again. Ever try to PvP in the Jade Quarry in Guild Wars 1 (GW Factions expansion)? Yeah. I use to spend hours there every day. And quite often there would be some elitist jerk moaning and griping all day about how much warriors suck there. The warrior character class was my favorite. But eventually I realized after trying so many different builds that the elitists were right. And I found myself using a necro bomber, an OP build that usually nobody is prepared to counter, despite it being a popular build. I despised the necro bomber build. Far too many times losing matches because of that. Just running along the map, teleport to the NPC shrine and BOOM!, blow myself up instantly killing the NPCs and taking control of the shrine for my team. Over and over and over.
Eventually I stopped playing GW, but not really because of having to resort to using a build I hated. It was because the player population was dwindling due to GW2 on the horizon, and there were mostly nothing but friggen bots left. I was lucky to get at least 1 human player on my team in a match. Out of a team size of 8, I would usually end up with 6-7 bots all programmed to follow a specific path, as well as the opposing team being mostly bots. It went from PvP to BvB (bot vs. bot).