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Unethical Federation, and others.
sandormen123
Member Posts: 862 Arc User
It is quite awful actually.
Here we are the mighty knights in silver spaceships roaming the universe, exploring.
Lo and behold! A sphere! Let's explore! Oh, wait. There are dinosaurs here with frikkin lazors on their heads. Let us shoot them. They want Omega molecules. No need to ask them why, who their mighty enemy might be. Let us shoot down their non-attacking supportships. Let's suit up in their armours, so they can't pick us out that easily...
Scientists? Bah. Shoot them. Medics? Bah. Shoot them. Shoot them ginormous cityships out of the sky. Let us not speak of all the dinosaurial females and children. Oh, wait. Good idea. Let us use their children as pets!
:eek:
Here we are the mighty knights in silver spaceships roaming the universe, exploring.
Lo and behold! A sphere! Let's explore! Oh, wait. There are dinosaurs here with frikkin lazors on their heads. Let us shoot them. They want Omega molecules. No need to ask them why, who their mighty enemy might be. Let us shoot down their non-attacking supportships. Let's suit up in their armours, so they can't pick us out that easily...
Scientists? Bah. Shoot them. Medics? Bah. Shoot them. Shoot them ginormous cityships out of the sky. Let us not speak of all the dinosaurial females and children. Oh, wait. Good idea. Let us use their children as pets!
:eek:
/Floozy
Post edited by sandormen123 on
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Comments
Agree fully on the "non-attacking" support ships.
Medics and Scientists: If they shoot at you, they are combatants, and you shoot back... It's that simple.
The Dinos are animals... We hold animals as pets...? I don't see the problem.
Yeah. You're right. What was I thinking. Let's tie them to poles and poke'em with cattlerods.
Works for me...
You are ignoring basic facts about not only war, but how things work even on our fair little planet here...
It's kinda hard to take your OP serious, made even worse by the post quoted here.
You are assuming they haven't armed themselves because of the Fed-Rommie-KDF invasion, which may very well be, the Voth are very civilized, and none of the scientists/medics in the cinematics had weapons
Keyword there: Armed themselves... And frankly: They always shoot first.
Fortunately the KDF doesn't cloak itself in hypocrisy. If someone has something we want, we can always "negotiate" (Do what we say or we send in the Birds of Prey) or conquer those who have what we want outright, and sort out the details later. Why bother tap dancing around the inevitable?
Join the KDF. Rid yourself of Starfleet shenanigans.
We have cookies?
Out of desperation, if you are arming scientists and Medics, how desperate must you be?
They also seemed to have run out of armour in a world with replicator technology....
How interesting. Please indulge me about which basic facts regarding war i ignore. I do understand that the geneva convention isn't always treated with respect, but one would think that the UFP would be quite respectful of its basic rules.
We (military) arm medics, not out of desperation, but because medics are key to battlefield success... But as long as there are targets, they are first and foremost combatants.
These are very basic military facts.... Seriously... It's common knowlege.
Sorry? I don't remember the Voth attending the Geneva convention... But still... I havn't really seen anything that infringes on the convention...
If they shoot first, you are allowed to respond...
Ok, I honestly did not know that about battlefield medics, so thank you for that one
Still, sending scientists, and people without armor speaks to desperation on behalf of the Voth
Right, our justification for not acting like Starfleet is a random never-referred-to-again piece of technobabble from the worst show in the canon.
I say again, the Omega molecules do not present an evident threat. Omega molecules only damage subspace if they detonate. They don't detonate if stable. The fact that warp and subspace-using boff powers and so forth work inside the sphere means that subspace still works inside the sphere, and therefore the molecules are stable and not a threat. And if the Voth blow themselves up with them? Good riddance. One less random one-shot species to worry about.
And no, I don't consider Janeway's actions sufficient precedent, because she's a flaming hypocrite.
@Cryptic: Next time you bring in random one-shot pieces of technobabble, think them through better. And that's just one of the problems with the scenario.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Just because another specie isn't familiar with the geneva convention, doesn't nullify its purpose. If someone is not following it, doesn't mean you shouldn't.
Regarding infringements... The UFP, and their allies are using enemy weaponry and armour.
That is prohibited. Get caught doing that, and you might end up getting a 'sleeping pill'.
Hence the motives why i`m not even remotly interested in that new "battlezone"..
Remember this is a STO timeilne not the Official Star Trek timeline
So cryptic can do anything they wish
like a jem hadar bug with more firepower than a galaxy class totaly untealistic to Canon but in this STO timeline they can make a shuttlescaft more powerful than a avenger battlecruiser if they want too
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Pardon? When did we arm medics? I have relatives that earned medals because they were unarmed medics that performed underfire by picking up the weapon of one of his fallen squadmates and using it to eliminate an aggressor shooting at them. So at least to Vietnam we did not arm medics.
However the general rule of thumb is, if they are shooting at you, you may shoot back.
Let the courts decide if they were legitimate after the fighting is over.
@starswordc
I do not know if Voyager is the worst, that is rather subjective. But the Omega protocols are poorly thought out to say the least. Only the captain knows about them and the moment any scan finds them the whole ship locks up? Say what happens if in the middle of battle the scanners find a particle? The ship stops flying and gets creamed.
So, yeah rather poorly thought out.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
This flimsy defense hinges on who shot first. Now, we can't determine this for sure, but we can look at some context clues to determine a likely scenario.
Firstly, we're told pretty much point blank that it's the Voth that waylaid the allies, interfering with their efforts to eliminate Omega Particles. This indicates the Voth shot first, but by itself is probably a biased report from an Allied commander.
Secondly, we have a first-hand account from a Voth scientist that suggests the Voth are desperate. They're losing a war and are willing to do anything to fight back, even if it means borking up warp travel forever. This could explain why they're fielding "specialists" as foot soldiers - their main fighting force is still out fighting. But, more to the point I'm trying to make, it suggests the Voth are in a position where shooting first at anything that gets in their way probably sounds reasonable. Considering the source of this information is an (ex-)enemy scientist and not an Allied soldier, it seems unlikely he'd spin the story to make his own people the aggressors.
While it's true that under the Omega Directive, the Allies could justify shooting first and shooting medics and stuff, the evidence suggests that is was in fact the Voth that were the aggressors.
And as a final note, the scientists in the cutscenes weren't armed, but they also weren't on the frontlines. So basically that's a completely meaningless thing to point out.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
On the other hand, if one were to destabilize the molecules, they would detonate. The Voth even considered doing so, as evidenced by one of the courier ships or Voth logs or whatever I found that particular message in.
I was actually considering starting an RP where a group of officers decided to try and adapt Omega molecules for use aboard Starfleet, KDF, Romulan, or whatever lockbox ships you can think of, but never went through with the idea for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to: SWGEmu RP, Space Empires 5 with my younger brother, the difficulty of finding somebody to do it with in an environment where most RPers' characters aren't likely to participate in such experiments...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
This is related to being conscripts. If a person is a pacifist, he can/could get a choice between being a medic/fieldpriest, doing civil duty, or jailtime.
Not everyone got civil duty, because a lot of people aimed for that service. Others became medics. Carrying arms were optional for these medics, although most of them quickly learned that lead doesn't discriminate on beliefs.
the voth also threatened to have Voyager destroyed and its the entire crew sent to a prison colony just to cover up evidence that supported a theory that they originated on earth.
this along with their cavalier attitude to a highly dangerous omega partial that could threaten the entire quadrant with no idea of the dangers and absolute refusal to believe evidence of their own scientists as to the dangers makes them no better then the borg or dominion.
I am sure if the voth were prepared to hold talks with an open mind and willingness to believe the evidence laid before them by their own people as well as other race`s there would be a peaceful resolution to this conflict but with their low opinion of other lifeforms and their refusal to listen to reason there is no alternative then to fight them every step of the way.
the federation though primarily peaceful explorers will always defend themselves against any threat to the federation and the voth are one such threat.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I'm sticking to KDF nowadays, and abystander0 is right. You just expect this kind of behaviour from the KDF during war time.
The facts of life on this planet: in war, medics and hospitals are primary targets (unless there's a camera present). Seriously, field medics have the highest chance of being shot in battle. And it makes sense (in a kinda gruesome way): why kill 1 lone soldier, when you can kill the guy that can heal 10 of them?!
Best arguement yet, although I am a sceptic regarding the reasoning for using Voth Armour and weaponry blatantly, without at least making it look like alliance equipment.
It doesn't sit well.
It would be similar to todays wars on earth. It doesn't sit well if some crazy aggressors assault a technologically more advanced military force, and start using their uniforms and equipment, without at least adding some kind of marking to show what side ones on.
-like my feds are apparently doing with the Voth heavy armour. The risk of friendly fire is high, not to question, it would anger and make peacetalks a little bit harder if one haphazardly blazes his Vothgun infront of/at Voths doing their tasks.
It kinds of reminds me of certain countries where foreign 'liberation' forces are training the locals into becoming police and military, only to have some rotten eggs turn and start shooting at them. If everyone is in the same uniform it can get difficult to figure out who to shoot at.
The Voth and their rigid Doctrine -- as so much else in Star Trek -- is meant to be a blatant mirror, held in front of our human eyes, so we might overcome our own bigotry and short-sightedness (this moralizing aspect of Star Trek is something I've never liked, btw).
So, the Voth behave the way they do... because WE do. Are we learning yet!?
Also the Federation has always been shoot first, ask questions later in this game so why bother about being unethical now? I have made a fair dent in the population of the galaxy myself.
True. I just have some time off the computer, celebrating christmas somewhere it usually is lots of snow and ice, but now it rains, rain and then some. Easy to become rethorical and philosophical. I believe a little bit (still) in humanity, although humanity's finest traits are somewhat dilluted in this game.
Even in a theoretical war where everybody is taking great steps to abide by the laws of war (let's pretend accidents also don't happen so medics aren't shot by mistake or caught in explosions meant for combat troops), medics who fire their weapons are no longer noncombatants, they are valid targets and no longer protected.
What's the first ability Voth medics use when entering combat? Hint: It's not a heal.
That ... makes a terrifying amount of sense ... !
More like so we become aware of our own bigotry and short-sightedness ... since most of the time ppl don't self examine too much .
Trek has a lot of Sociology/Psychology 101 in it .
It might grate you if you are an adult , but as someone who grew up with TNG , it had me reading books on those topics when I was like ... 14-15 y/old .
Cryptic re-wrote that when they added a lab to examine Omega Molecules to our Spire Project . Thus we are no longer destroying these things but studying them .
When at war ... you don't allow your enemy to resupply any more then you allow them to build a nice comfy fortress .
That is why the Fed/KDF/Rom alliance decided to push when they had the Dominion surrounded on Cardassia . No quarters .
BUT ... having said that , I am holding on to that line in one of the Voth cut-scenes about "aren't you curious why "we" and "you" have entered the Sphere from opposite ends ?" -- meaning that in tried and true tradition , the Voth War may end up being explained away as one more 'Ha-Ha the Iconians ... those naughty pranksters had us waste our ammo on one more foolish front ... can't we all be friends ?' .